KarmaPolice
Footballguy
This was the other thought- good post. Maybe if we collectively did a better job raising our sons this wouldnt be as much of an issue.Uruk-Hai said:
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Is it sexist to be more protective of your daughters than your sons? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Captain Cranks
- Start date
I think people keep saying this (and similar) - and it completely misses the issue.
"Boys will be Boys" attitudes lead to "more danger" for women.
If we did a better job raising our sons - teaching boundaries, for example - then women would be in less danger. As a society, its rather embarrassing that we so blatantly see a need to protect our daughters, yet are so blind to correcting the behavior that leads to that danger.
No person should ever feel vulnerable - man, woman, or child. We should be teaching that to our kids (and apparently to ourselves) - don't abuse another person.
-OZ-
Footballguy
Right.I think people keep saying this (and similar) - and it completely misses the issue.
"Boys will be Boys" attitudes lead to "more danger" for women.
If we did a better job raising our sons - teaching boundaries, for example - then women would be in less danger. As a society, its rather embarrassing that we so blatantly see a need to protect our daughters, yet are so blind to correcting the behavior that leads to that danger.
No person should ever feel vulnerable - man, woman, or child. We should be teaching that to our kids (and apparently to ourselves) - don't abuse another person.
A difference is I'm more aware of teaching my boys to not put themselves in a position where they could reasonably be accused of rape, whereas my daughter we'll be more aware of teaching her how to not get raped.
I'm definitely more protective of my daughter than the 4 boys, part of that is gender, but she's also unlikely to ever be bigger than my 11yo son is now (she's from the smallest area in China with a genetic disorder).
jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
I don't disagree that in a perfect world that you are incorrect. In a perfect world--training people to do exactly the opposite of what their biological instincts are would be easy enough to where one could train every boy and girl to be perfect. However--this "utopia" is not reality. Biologically---males want to dominate and spread their seed to procreate. Biologically--females want to have children and to nurture and raise them. One biology is not "better" than the other--they are equal but different. Teaching and training a young boy/girl to go against their biological urges is not as easy as many here are making it seem. Even grown adults will sometimes abandon their will power and cave into their biological urges in weak moments---thats called cheating. Let's not act like kids are not capable of having weak moments as well ----even with the best parenting. Knowing this--and knowing that young females do carry a disproportionate amount of the negative ramifications of a potential pregnancy-- I'm not sure how supervising them in a slightly deeper manner is somehow this super negative thing that some of you are frowning upon. There's a difference between a perfect world and reality.I think people keep saying this (and similar) - and it completely misses the issue.
"Boys will be Boys" attitudes lead to "more danger" for women.
If we did a better job raising our sons - teaching boundaries, for example - then women would be in less danger. As a society, its rather embarrassing that we so blatantly see a need to protect our daughters, yet are so blind to correcting the behavior that leads to that danger.
No person should ever feel vulnerable - man, woman, or child. We should be teaching that to our kids (and apparently to ourselves) - don't abuse another person.
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Chadstroma
Footballguy
Girls have dangers and issues boys don't have to worry about. Don't be an idiot wanna be SJW, your daughter's need more from you.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
And vice versa. I got invited to engage in a lot of violent and reckless behavior that girls don’t usually get drawn into.
General Malaise
Footballguy
Can you elaborate on the catfishing? I don't mean to pry but that concept buffudles me.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
I don't disagree with you but even if everyone was doing what you said I think there would still be a need to be overprotective over those who need it. Whether the protection is physical or emotional. We as a society teach people not to take advantage of others but if I had a child that had a mental challenge I would be overprotective of them.I think people keep saying this (and similar) - and it completely misses the issue.
"Boys will be Boys" attitudes lead to "more danger" for women.
If we did a better job raising our sons - teaching boundaries, for example - then women would be in less danger. As a society, its rather embarrassing that we so blatantly see a need to protect our daughters, yet are so blind to correcting the behavior that leads to that danger.
No person should ever feel vulnerable - man, woman, or child. We should be teaching that to our kids (and apparently to ourselves) - don't abuse another person.
Seems like the two sides of the argument in this thread don't have to be mutually exclusive - I can teach my boys to be better men while at the same time be somewhat overprotective of my daughters. I'm overprotective when it comes to my wife and her safety compared with my own. It doesn't mean I'm condoning the boys will be boys attitude but rather acknowledging the fact that my wife could be physically overpowered by a lot of men.
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Green and Gold
Footballguy
I think it can be sexist but doesn't have to be. Men never (or at least very, very rarely) have to think of altering their behavior to avoid being raped. Women do, all the time. It is natural to be more protective of a child that had a higher predisposition of being assaulted.
The schtick about the dad with the shotgun is sexist, though. Tell the boyfriend that anything that happens between them needs to be consentual, sure. But trying to be the gatekeeper of her sex life is super sexist.
The schtick about the dad with the shotgun is sexist, though. Tell the boyfriend that anything that happens between them needs to be consentual, sure. But trying to be the gatekeeper of her sex life is super sexist.
Jayrod
Footballguy
Then call me sexist. I don't give a #### what some random PC police on the internet think. I'm teaching my son to respect women and keep it in his pants, but I'm going to be an imposing figure to every boy my daughter dates. I don't own a gun, but I'm a big, athletic, assertive grown man, and there is no way I'm letting my daughter out the door with a guy who doesn't have a healthy respect for my daughter's well being.
RUSF18
Footballguy
I think where the original argument came from is that it isn't even about guys possibly not having respect for our daughters, but it's more about by the time our daughters are of a certain age and have demonstrated they are responsible, we shouldn't be trying to scare away the ones who are truly respectful, or acting like we are the gatekeepers of our daughters' sexuality.
Anything else is perpetuating the "delicate flower" stereotype that some seem to either actually believe or just joke about.
Eta: I also think it's much more likely that the guys you'll scare away are the ones who are the good ones. The ones to watch out for are the ones who know what to say, how to say it, and put on a good show for you because the whole thing is an act.
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The Iguana
Footballguy
Seriously? Pretty sure every dad of daughters makes some jokes about this kind of thing from time to time. I used to joke to my wife about wanting to lock my girls in a castle tower, a la Rapunzel, when they were little. But the idea of trying to threaten some guy that shows up to take your daughter out on a date is insane. If you have done your job and taught your daughter to respect herself and be able to protect herself as much as possible, then you should be respecting her to not choose to go out with some guy you have to threaten before they leave the house.
With knowledge of what the world is like and what awful things are possible, it's a terrifying thing to release your children into the wild. I worry about them having an accident while driving, I worry about some lout treating them poorly, I worry about them making some of the same ####### decisions I did but not being lucky enough to have nothing really bad happen, I worry about _______________ <-- fill in the blank with a billion other things. But all that said, I happily send them off to make their own decisions, to live their own life, all the while hoping and praying that I've given them the tools to survive and thrive in a real world.
If I have done my job as a parent, they will be ready to face the world. That doesn't mean bad things can't/won't happen. But all I can do is give them a chance and hope they make the most of it. I also have to hope they avoid anything stupid happening. But I've had very serious talks with them about how to handle it if it does - that includes the importance of reporting any incident that involves someone doing ANYTHING inappropriate, illegal, immoral. The fact that I HAD TO talk to my daughters about what to do if they are sexually assaulted, victimized, etc, sucks bigger than anything. But no chance I send them out there without having that talk.
The Iguana
Footballguy
I have met any guy that my daughters have wanted to go out with. Said hi, had friendly conversation when they have come to pick them up. The idea of trying to actually physically intimidate them is nuts. What happens when she brings home a guy that is bigger, more athletic, and more assertive than you are?
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
Interesting question. I guess my first question would be how did she manage to meet J.J. Watt.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Depends on what you mean by protective. I went rock climbing,hiking, mountaineering with my son tuesday. We did things i will likely never consider doing with my daughter. Still possible since she is young, but i highly doubt she will end up in the same category of strength and fitness that my son has. Is that being more protective?
I think that is just assessing risk.
I think that is just assessing risk.
The Iguana
Footballguy
It depends. Are you not taking her rock climbing because it doesn't interest her or because you don't think she can handle it?
https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/2019/04/09/indys-speed-climbing-phenom-piper-kelly-19-ranked-among-best-world/3067153002/
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
My father took great pains to instill in his sons the obligation to be a gentleman at all times. By example he also taught us to be protective of the less physically powerful, male or female, and to always be protective and respectful of woman. He was less protective of our physical well-being than he was of his daughter's, figuring we were capable of seeing to our own physical safety while she may not have been, but he was protective of and attentive to our moral development to an equal level.
Me, I have no sons. I imagine I would have parented them more or less as I myself was parented. Woe be un to any who threaten my daughter's well-being, or my wife's, sister's, or mother's for that matter. Am I sexist, maybe, but I can live with it.
Me, I have no sons. I imagine I would have parented them more or less as I myself was parented. Woe be un to any who threaten my daughter's well-being, or my wife's, sister's, or mother's for that matter. Am I sexist, maybe, but I can live with it.
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The Iguana
Footballguy
For instance, my older daughter was obsessed with doing a Tough Mudder. I know her and that kind of thing isn't really something she is normally into but she had reasons she wanted to do one. So a couple summers ago we did one that was about 10 miles long with some pretty tough obstacles. We had a blast. She liked most of it, didn't like some of it, very likely may never do another one again.
But no chance I was telling her she couldn't, shouldn't, etc. I kind of love that kind of thing anyway so to go do one together was a huge boon for me. I'd imagine that although she had other reasons to want to do it, the fact that I do like that kind of thing was likely part of her motivation.
But no chance I was telling her she couldn't, shouldn't, etc. I kind of love that kind of thing anyway so to go do one together was a huge boon for me. I'd imagine that although she had other reasons to want to do it, the fact that I do like that kind of thing was likely part of her motivation.
Insein
Footballguy
The need will never go away. There will always be men/boys from fractured homes or questionable upbringing. That's not to mention the boys that were raised to be perfect gentleman that are just sociopaths biologically because that's how humanity is. There has never been a time in human history where men that want to rape women didn't exist or even to a lesser extent Men that are overly aggressive in their horniness. There will never be a time where that doesn't exist in some capacity. Yes we can all teach our sons not to be predatory Aholes but not every boy has that father figure. Not every boy does what they're told either.
This pie in the sky view is a terrible way to look at this argument. It's like saying if weapons never existed then no one would have a need to be wary of weapons. Well they do exist and have always existed. So be wary and warn your daughters about those weapons.
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parasaurolophus
Footballguy
The rock climbing part will happen. Top roping is incredibly safe if you know how to set up properly.
It was more the scrambling stuff. We picked a route to climb that neither of us were able to complete. So to get the gear, you have to hike back to the top. Two ways to do this. Head north to where the cliffs become mostly boulders and are much easier to climb up and get up that way. Or head back to the paths and follow them(much more roundabout way).
Gawain
Footballguy
That's a little bit different than the way I interpreted:
Teaching your kids different skills based on their physical abilities isn't how I'm taking the Poll question. My interpretation is along the lines of different dating ages for boys and girls and the like. The other problem is that kids rebel when they're stamped down. Remember the words of .38 Special in your parenting (not you specifically, rock climbing is awesome)
playin4beer
Footballguy
By "controlling" my daughters dating and sex lives, I mean...
My 13, 16 and 17 year old daughters are not allowed to have boys over without my wife or I home.. no bedrooms with closed doors and they aren't allowed to go over boys houses without parents home. Curfews and rules about where they can go on dates also are enforced..
My 21 year old daughter lives in Germany right now, and I don't have a clue what goes on in her sex life, nor do I want to..
Edit to add: If I had a son, the same dating rules would apply.. I don't need him knocking up some teenage girl..
My 13, 16 and 17 year old daughters are not allowed to have boys over without my wife or I home.. no bedrooms with closed doors and they aren't allowed to go over boys houses without parents home. Curfews and rules about where they can go on dates also are enforced..
My 21 year old daughter lives in Germany right now, and I don't have a clue what goes on in her sex life, nor do I want to..
Edit to add: If I had a son, the same dating rules would apply.. I don't need him knocking up some teenage girl..
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Gawain
Footballguy
If you had a 17 year old son could he have a girl over when your wife or yourself wasn't home?
playin4beer
Footballguy
Green and Gold
Footballguy
PC police? I don't get it. I don't think you said anything different than I did. I agree about the boy respecting the girl 100% (everything consentual). Although it didn't come across in my post, it isn't sexist if you teach your sons and daughters the same thing. Moral values are different depending on religion, culture, etc, but taught equally to boys and girls is great. This discussion I think is more toward the overbearing dad who high fives his son for bagging the cheerleader while threatening the boys to stay away from his daughter.
That being said, I think telling either a teenage boy or teenage girl to keep it in their pants is an entirely pointless tradition we somehow manage to pass down from generation to generation. It works once in a great while, but hormones and the natural predisposition for teenagers to rebel are far stronger than anything we can do as parents. Our best bet is to teach them how to do it safely.
Judge Smails
Footballguy
People pretending to be someone other than they are. Catfishing can happen to anyone, but many times it's older dudes pretending to be a 15 year old boy, simple as creating new persona and copying somebody else's pictures. Lots of girls get duped. Think they are in love, send pics, make plans to meet up, etc. My daughter just got infatuated with someone online, never sent pics or met up with him. But she wanted to meet him. My niece found a picture on someone else's FB page who that was the exact same picture as the guy chasing my daughter. So we knew it was fake. Then did PI research found out he was in AZ, was paying cell phone bill for his wife, etc. I asked my daughter to call him and then I got on the phone. Told him I knew who he was, in lived in AZ, knew his account was fake, he was committing a felony and if he ever, ever contacted my daughter again I would go to my friends in law enforcement. He ghosted from there. Dude could have been a serial rapist, been preparing a storage facility - I dunno. Shudder at the thought.
By the way all the talk about catholic church, boy scouts, etc that it can happen to boys I get. Odds are way the other way though. 7:1 more girls than boys. Data is out there.
Last comment - I do think Dads getting overly involved in their daughters dating/sexual lives is creepy. They don't want to have "the talk" with you. That's their Mom's role if possible. But constant education of risks, being aware, carry mace/horn, cover your drink, don't put anything online that you wouldn't want Grandma to see, always go out in groups, know you have the right to say no at all times, if you see any jealousy/possessiveness it's not a compliment it's a huge red flag, etc are critical for the safety/well being of daughters. Just to get them safely onto the other side of young adulthood. Now, you also have education daily with your sons about many things, including becoming a good man, how to treat women, how to identify bat #### crazy - OK to date not OK to marry and many more. But the risk of bad outcomes are far greater with daughters and I parented accordingly. My 2 cents.
DJackson10
Footballguy
I was joking on top of the joke. Take a chill pill. Most of the time these comment are in jest. Let me be clear I'm not a father but have many friends with kids who I've watched from time to time. Given todays world it's only natural for fathers to be more protective of their daughters given what we know now about sexual harassment and females being taken advantage of these days and from when we were growing up. Trust me I know for a fact if I had a daughter I'd be super protective I wouldn't be overbearing protective but I would want her to let me if she's out she's ok and if she's on a date not going how she planned text or whatever for me or mom or another relative to come get her. I have two adopted female 2nd cousins I'm close to more like first cousins and my aunt and uncle have a 1 year old right now. Both are in a family where my grandmother have 7 Grandsons. If you don't think we're gonna be protective of our younger female cousins you're dead wrong. The first guy that harms any of them they will have not only their fathers that deals with the clown but 7 of their male cousins the oldest from the youngest 12 yrs apart with 5 of us 6 yrs apart or less. By the time my youngest cousin is seriously dating in college my male cousins and I will be in our early 50s late to mid 40s.
DJackson10
Footballguy
I think this is a pretty loaded question without any context. Trust me this isn't meant to be disrespectful in anyway thoughWalking Boot said:
Is. the girl the sweet innocent one and guy stealths a raw dog without her knowing?
Was it two kids experimenting following all rules and the protection breaks?
Is the girl known for sleeping around in school and tells the dude it's ok she's on birth control?
We need more context. You just can't ask this question without some sort of context here iMHO
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DJackson10
Footballguy
This is truth Usually these Teacher was hooking up with minor in a sexual relationship is more often then not the dude bragging to his buddies about it. Word gets around maybe one friend tells his own parents or the other kids parent. I know nothing like this ever occurred at my school because we all would've known as we had some real braggers there. One guy I went to college with admitted to having a relationship with the art teacher at his school but later it was found out there was never enough evidence to even confirm it. My school had an incident where this really crazy girl (She had issues mentally and she needed serious medial psychological help) who tried to frame an assistant male teacher of assaulting her in a hallway closet one day during school hours. 6 months after the investigation it was deemed she lied and the teacher was allowed back. Many of us students were really upset about it as he was one of the coolest Assistant teachers we had. Always teacher life lessons to us and always helping us with any issues at school or at home. All the parents loved the guys and I think our mom's just like him because he was good looking. It was a really messed up situation that happened to him.
DJackson10
Footballguy
If given the chance to have a son and daughter they will learn how to behave normally and respectful to the opposite sex. My Son will know young if he even thinks about treating a women wrong or disrespectful I will disown him and he better be not in the house when I find out because it'll just cause further issues for him. He'll learn how to treat a women with respect and be a complete gentleman to her. That no means no. No matter what you think she really wants.I think people keep saying this (and similar) - and it completely misses the issue.
"Boys will be Boys" attitudes lead to "more danger" for women.
If we did a better job raising our sons - teaching boundaries, for example - then women would be in less danger. As a society, its rather embarrassing that we so blatantly see a need to protect our daughters, yet are so blind to correcting the behavior that leads to that danger.
No person should ever feel vulnerable - man, woman, or child. We should be teaching that to our kids (and apparently to ourselves) - don't abuse another person.
My daughter would know the dangers of dating and what to do when she is uncomfortable in a situation, responsibility of drinking (We should all know it's naive for any parent to try and prevent their kids from at least experimenting with drinking in College) at large parties or with other people, responsibility of sex, hell I'll have her in karate classes at a young age for self defense purposes. She also know what clothing wearing a particular item might send mixed singles to young and old men a like.
Both will learn respect for one another and others. If my son is older I would definitely hope he'd be protective of his sister as much as I would be and if my daughter was the oldest her to him.
DJackson10
Footballguy
My adopted cousin is From South China near the boarder of Vietnam. She has some learning and social issues so our whole family is always gonna be a little more protective of her at times. She's really smart in school by the stuff she needs to learn a little slower then others. Given her social issues and not getting signs of body language or comments we have been trying to teach her how to read people better. She hasn't been diagnosed with anything yet but she has shown similar signs as myself of being on the autistic Spectrum but higher functioning then most. I mean hell I'm on the spectrum and have learned and taught myself how to handle situations but I'm also given that I've had similar issues with school, friends etc I'm probably gonna be more protective of her given that I know what she goes through is harder and sometimes it doesn't seem like life is fair to us
DJackson10
Footballguy
I agree with this. I think the typical father meats daughters new boyfriend or guy is taking her out is culturally acceptable. You as a parent have been her protective since she was born and you are now interesting that to a guy you don't even know? I'd want to know who the guy is what he looks like, how he acts, how he dresses etc. I'll say one thing if I have a daughter the first guy who comes to the door wearing timberlands with his pants down to his knees on wife beater isn't gonna date my daughter. You meet the parents you come dress much nicer then that. It shows you have respect for her parents and her. I want to know a bit about you too. Do you go to my daughters school or how you know each other? Where he lives generally and what his parents do as well as any siblings older or younger. Is he involved in school activities or sports, how is he as a student. If in HS I'd want to know what if any plans he's decided on for his future. I'm not gonna interrogate the guy but I want to at least be comfortable giving you the responsibility I've had since she was born of making sure she's kept safe if a situation occurs. I don't think thats asking for much. Just asking to be a normal human being and not some neanderthal trying to get in my daughters pants.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
He does what now?DJackson10 said:
pollardsvision
Footballguy
Serious question. Was Clark right to rat out PappaGeorgio?
I swear, this conversation is really going in 4 different directions, or so.
Protective can mean:
1. Overly restrictive, in the "keep her locked in her room" and let the son do whatever. Everybody knows this is not right and surely sexist.
2. Worried more about her physical safety more than that of a sons? Sure, they tend to be smaller/weaker and the world is violent towards women. The risk assessment argument makes sense. (the " we should teach men" stuff doesn't work here because fathers can't count on the majority of boys to have been raised by people teaching them to act right).
3. Worried more about her reproductive health/safety make sense too. Sure, the little boy may have legal obligations (nothing a little cash job for that little #### won't take care of), but the burden of teenage motherhood surely falls far more on the daughter's family.
4. Given #2 and #3, there's nothing wrong with the father exacting his physical/firearm prowess a little more with his daughter's suitors compared to his son's. The risk and stakes are higher.
I think that pretty well solves it.
Signed,
Dude with no kids.
This makes perfect sense.DJackson10 said:
I swear, this conversation is really going in 4 different directions, or so.
Protective can mean:
1. Overly restrictive, in the "keep her locked in her room" and let the son do whatever. Everybody knows this is not right and surely sexist.
2. Worried more about her physical safety more than that of a sons? Sure, they tend to be smaller/weaker and the world is violent towards women. The risk assessment argument makes sense. (the " we should teach men" stuff doesn't work here because fathers can't count on the majority of boys to have been raised by people teaching them to act right).
3. Worried more about her reproductive health/safety make sense too. Sure, the little boy may have legal obligations (nothing a little cash job for that little #### won't take care of), but the burden of teenage motherhood surely falls far more on the daughter's family.
4. Given #2 and #3, there's nothing wrong with the father exacting his physical/firearm prowess a little more with his daughter's suitors compared to his son's. The risk and stakes are higher.
I think that pretty well solves it.
Signed,
Dude with no kids.
DJackson10
Footballguy
Let me also remind people I'm not even a parent. I was just taught well by my parents and grandfather and from experience. My babysitter who lived behind us would have boyfriends and until HS ended up with his HS sweetheart now married (Still see the guy as he's one of my reps). When we would be at her house though Dad always wanted to know these things of any guy she was with. It was protective but also it showed what kind of guy she dealt with. The one guy she dated in 9th grade (this was the last before her last and final BF was her husband) came in dress all ghetto for a party. Her dad opened the door and before the dude could say hi he told him to leave and slammed the door in his face. Turns around tells my babysitter you need to date better guys and guys who don't dress like they are in some sort of gang. 10 yrs later dude was sent to federal for armed robbery in another state. I think Dad made a smart choice there for his daughter.
My Babysitter is Irish/Italian so you knew there was some traditional stuff done when meeting a guy too. Act like a normal human being and be polite to her parents. Ever girl I ever dated or took to Prom or Danced I was dressed to impress. Said Sir and Ma'am to her parents and said thank and your welcome. We would tell them our plans for the night and when we might be back give maybe 1-2hrs lead way nothing more. If we ran late we would call or send a text.
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
Of course as we all know judging teenagers by how they dress is one of the most effective ways to filter out bad character kids....
