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Is it unsportsman to not kick (1 Viewer)

H

Hoot&HoLLer

Footballguy
CBS pregame show quoted Cowboys HC Wade Philips as saying they will not kick to Devin Hester today.

I don't see this as being unsportsmanlike. It looks to be good strategy...just like an onside kick or avoiding a WR being covered by an all-pro corner.

For those fantasy teams that drafted the Bears to get Hester's return potential, this would have to be a reason to downgrade the Bears D/ST against better offenses.

 
No, it's smart. Herm Edwards kept kicking to him and Hester was a step and a flag away from having 3 TD's.

Kick it out of bounds. No one has ever returned like this guy has. Avoid him at all costs, especially with the offensive struggles the Bears have had.

 
He shouldn't field another punt/kick this season. Any coach that kicks to him should be fired on the spot...

 
Hoot&HoLLer said:
CBS pregame show quoted Cowboys HC Wade Philips as saying they will not kick to Devin Hester today.I don't see this as being unsportsmanlike. It looks to be good strategy...just like an onside kick or avoiding a WR being covered by an all-pro corner. For those fantasy teams that drafted the Bears to get Hester's return potential, this would have to be a reason to downgrade the Bears D/ST against better offenses.
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Yes, it's also unsportsmanlike to double cover TO.
 
SeveredHorseHeads said:
No one has ever returned like this guy has.
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Holy Hyperbole, Batman!It could be argued (rather convincingly, in fact) that Hester wasn't even the best returner in the entire NFL *LAST YEAR*. Pacman Jones averaged essentially the same number of yards per punt and kick return and had half as many fumbles. Also, to the best of my knowledge, Hester has never received press as a serious league MVP candidate, like Dante Hall did in 2003 when he averaged SIXTEEN POINT THREE yards per punt return (Hester, for comparison purposes, averaged a measley 12.8 last year). And in 2003, Hall only had 2 fumbles on returns (compared to 4 for Pacman last year and a whopping EIGHT for Hester).

Not everything needs to be T3H BEST EVAR!!! to be appreciated, you know. NFL History is pretty long, and, believe it or not... there have actually been a couple of good players at points during it.

Edit: And please note that I haven't even MENTIONED Deion Sanders or the real best returner in history, Gale Sayers.

 
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SSOG said:
Also, to the best of my knowledge, Hester has never received press as a serious league MVP candidate, like Dante Hall did in 2003
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Completely meaningless.Relax. I understand you're points regarding YPR and perhaps I'm getting ahead of myself, but YPR isn't really what I'm talking about. I'll I'm saying is that Hester has returned kicks for touchdowns at an unprecedented pace. Historically speaking, no one has returned kicks/punts for touchdowns like Hester has. Baring injury, this guy is a mortal lock to shatter the NFL record for return touchdowns. So no, no one has ever returned like Hester has and he's getting better. Not everything was better way back in the day.
averaged a measley 12.8 last year
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Deion Sanders average more than that exactly once in his entire career.
"I never could run that fast. I didn't have that type of vision."
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:thumbdown:
 
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SSOG said:
SeveredHorseHeads said:
No one has ever returned like this guy has.
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Holy Hyperbole, Batman!It could be argued (rather convincingly, in fact) that Hester wasn't even the best returner in the entire NFL *LAST YEAR*. Pacman Jones averaged essentially the same number of yards per punt and kick return and had half as many fumbles. Also, to the best of my knowledge, Hester has never received press as a serious league MVP candidate, like Dante Hall did in 2003 when he averaged SIXTEEN POINT THREE yards per punt return (Hester, for comparison purposes, averaged a measley 12.8 last year). And in 2003, Hall only had 2 fumbles on returns (compared to 4 for Pacman last year and a whopping EIGHT for Hester).

Not everything needs to be T3H BEST EVAR!!! to be appreciated, you know. NFL History is pretty long, and, believe it or not... there have actually been a couple of good players at points during it.

Edit: And please note that I haven't even MENTIONED Deion Sanders or the real best returner in history, Gale Sayers.
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Hester blows them all out of the water...last weekend, when he easily, and I mean easily, could have had 4 KR/PR TD's sealed the deal in my mind. He doesn't do much else(and never will, imo) but his skills at the PR/KR position are the best I've ever seen.
 
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SeveredHorseHeads said:
Completely meaningless.Relax. I understand you're points regarding YPR and perhaps I'm getting ahead of myself, but YPR isn't really what I'm talking about. I'll I'm saying is that Hester has returned kicks for touchdowns at an unprecedented pace. Historically speaking, no one has returned kicks/punts for touchdowns like Hester has. Baring injury, this guy is a mortal lock to shatter the NFL record for return touchdowns. So no, no one has ever returned like Hester has and he's getting better. Not everything was better way back in the day.
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Dante Hall was once a mortal lock to shatter that record, too. If history has taught us anything, it's that kick returners are so unbelievably volatile from season to season. History books are littered with returners who had one or two amazing seasons and then went quietly into the night. Let's wait until Hester has more than 18 games under his belt until we start talking about how he's a mortal lock to break all these CAREER records.
averaged a measley 12.8 last year
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Deion Sanders average more than that exactly once in his entire career.
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Do you really believe that I'm under the impression that 12.8 yards per punt return is a "measly" total?
 
The ability of returners to change the game is overrated. Did Dante Hall suddenly forget how to return kicks after his remarkable run? No, he just got lucky during his remarkable run. He's marginally more likely to score if you kick it to him than anyone else is, but if you give up 20 yards of field position every time you punt by kicking it out of bounds, you're costing yourself more than you would by just kicking to the guy.

By the way, it was also incorrect to walk Bonds, even in his best steroid-enhanced season, from an expected cost standpoint.

 
Borat said:
What a ridiculous question.
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I too watched the original segment that the original poster (Hoot&HoLLer) referred to and the sportsmanlike issue was posed by Greg Gumbel, James Brown, Marino, Esiason, and Shannon Sharpe on CBS' NFL Today. The original poster was just taking their question of whether or not this strategy was unsportsmanlike. If you read his post, he wrote that he thought it was good strategy. So cut him some slack he was just posing their question.
 
CalBear said:
The ability of returners to change the game is overrated. Did Dante Hall suddenly forget how to return kicks after his remarkable run? No, he just got lucky during his remarkable run. He's marginally more likely to score if you kick it to him than anyone else is, but if you give up 20 yards of field position every time you punt by kicking it out of bounds, you're costing yourself more than you would by just kicking to the guy.

By the way, it was also incorrect to walk Bonds, even in his best steroid-enhanced season, from an expected cost standpoint.
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I don't think it's luck, I think it's special teams play. A good returner won't look good without good upfield blocking, but the return man has a lot of responsibilities along the way. The Bears special teams are very good, and Hester is one of the best returners I've seen. His ability so slow down and wait for the play to develop, his vision, his acceleration, and his top line speed are all characteristics you'd want in the ideal return man.
 
Of course it's not unsportsmanlike. Is it also unsportsmanlike to not throw toward Champ Bailey as much as you throw to the other side? Is it unsportsmanlike that there is a clear "backup" and a clear "starter?" I mean, that's not fair, since someone gets to play more than someone else.

:shock:

 
It is flat out assinine to kick the ball anywhere near hester. I've never seen anything even close to what he has done in barely over a freakin year in the league!

 
As long as the game carries a potential penalty for avoiding a player, I see no problem with avoiding him. In baseball, you can avoid pitching to somebody by walking him. In this context, you have to concern your kicker with avoiding him with the understanding that he's a moving target. If we're talking kickoff, there's a severe penalty for putting it out of bounds. If it's a punt, punting out of bounds almost always shortens up the kick.

Yeah, I think it's fine to avoid Hester if you can. You're paying a price no matter which way you go.

 
CalBear said:
The ability of returners to change the game is overrated. Did Dante Hall suddenly forget how to return kicks after his remarkable run? No, he just got lucky during his remarkable run. He's marginally more likely to score if you kick it to him than anyone else is, but if you give up 20 yards of field position every time you punt by kicking it out of bounds, you're costing yourself more than you would by just kicking to the guy.

By the way, it was also incorrect to walk Bonds, even in his best steroid-enhanced season, from an expected cost standpoint.
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Thats the most idiotic thing I have ever read on here. With that line up you walk Bonds any time he has a chance to hurt you.
 
No, it's smart. For all but a few rare instances, kicking the ball to Devin Hester is suicide. He is simply a better athlete than anyone on the field...

He may have a ten-cent head, and that probably will keep him from becoming an elite WR, but he has all the tools to dominate the game from that position. Hopefully he can avoid the injury bug, because he is simply special, a talent unlike any we have ever witnessed.

 
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1huskerfan said:
Hoot&HoLLer said:
CBS pregame show quoted Cowboys HC Wade Philips as saying they will not kick to Devin Hester today.I don't see this as being unsportsmanlike. It looks to be good strategy...just like an onside kick or avoiding a WR being covered by an all-pro corner. For those fantasy teams that drafted the Bears to get Hester's return potential, this would have to be a reason to downgrade the Bears D/ST against better offenses.
Click to expand...
Yes, it's also unsportsmanlike to double cover TO.
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that to me is a challenge to overcome. PLAYING I'd probably feel like it stunk that I wouldn't get a chance to return and lean the usportsmanlike way. Isn't a sportsman supposed to be up for challenges? but that's playingCoaching, schemes, gameplan etc it's a sound and common move, like others have said. I would not feel like a coach was being unsportsman-like having his K avoid Devin, just as I don't when they pick on an inexperienced CB. Conversely, it sometimes seems like the coach/team have some big ego like "we can stop this star return guy even though no one else can" and then they kick to the start KR and he runs it right back for a score. The team sure seems foolish then.
 
Kicking to him is kind of a no-win situation. Either he scores and you're deflated, he runs back a good kick and you're feeling edgy or he gets bottled up...and it's like "It's coming. Maybe next time." Even in the best case, it's like energy deferred to the next return.

But by not kicking to him, it's frustrating for the fans and the team. He could do something special...but you won't let him. I think that's the best way to handle it. The Bears aren't the Greatest Show on Turf. let them have it at the 40 until they show they can do something with it. What are you really sacrificing? Maybe 12-15 yards from an average return?

 
831hoops said:
CalBear said:
The ability of returners to change the game is overrated. Did Dante Hall suddenly forget how to return kicks after his remarkable run? No, he just got lucky during his remarkable run. He's marginally more likely to score if you kick it to him than anyone else is, but if you give up 20 yards of field position every time you punt by kicking it out of bounds, you're costing yourself more than you would by just kicking to the guy.

By the way, it was also incorrect to walk Bonds, even in his best steroid-enhanced season, from an expected cost standpoint.
Click to expand...
Thats the most idiotic thing I have ever read on here. With that line up you walk Bonds any time he has a chance to hurt you.
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Haven't been here long have ye?
 
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