Is there a Mike Vick thread? (1 Viewer)

[jwvdcw]

Depends on what you mean by led. If you mean turning the ball over 3 times and making 1 good play leading, then yeah, I'd bench him.

Please nobody respond to this...anyone who thinks Vick only made one good play all of last night is obviously just looking for an argument. And yes, I realize the irony in that I just responded to it.

 

[jwvdcw]

If he wasn't for his running and his high draft status that would have gotten him benched.

you would bench a QB that led his team to an 11-3 record?

I said if it wasn't for his running ability. If he didn't have his running ability, they wouldn't be 11-3.

Agreed. And if Peyton Manning didn't have his passing ability then the Colts wouldn't be 10-3.

 

[jwvdcw]

How many black quarterbacks would make my list? Well if McNair wasn't old as dirt that would be 4.1.Peyton Manning-Numbers speak for themselves2.Tom Brady-Count the rings3.Donovan McNabb-Possibly brings that number to 2 black Super Bowl winners4.Daunte Culpepper-Just needs a defense5.Brett Favre-Already said he'd play several more years if the team is there.6.Ben Roethlisberger-12-0, what more do you want, plus he's a rookie7.Chad Pennington-When healthy one of the most accurate passers in the league8.Carson Palmer-Look at his numbers and he's basically a rookie.9.Matt Hasselbeck-You want to talk about no recivers for Vick???10.Aaron Brooks-The smiling after int's gets on my nerves, but with a defense could lead the Saints to the promised land.

Culpepper doesn't belong on the top 10 yet alone top 5. Hes way overrated. QBs like Frerotte, Johnson, an over the hill Cunningham, and many others put up just as good numbers as him when playing with Randy Moss. Anyone can throw it up to Moss. Pepper is nothing special at all.

 

[jwvdcw]

Vick is an extremely unique player...it seems unfair to compare him with QBs like Manning and Favre. While nowhere near as good as them as a passer, they can't even dream of making some of the plays that he makes with his feet.Vick singlehandedly led Virginia Tech to the national championship game as a freshman in college.Vick singlehandedly defeated Favre and the Packers in a playoff game at Lambeau for the first and only time in history.Whatever he's doing, it's working. Even if he never throws for 3,000 yards in a season, he can still be a great QB. He just may not fit your idea of what makes a QB great.Bad passer != Bad QB

I agree with you completely, although I wouldn't say that Vick singlehandedly beat the Packers a few years ago.

 

[jwvdcw]

Even if he never throws for 3,000 yards in a season, he can still be a great QB. He just may not fit your idea of what makes a QB great.

I agree. People have very different ideas of how to measure a great QB. IMO, calling Vick a poor QB because he's a poor passer is like calling Bill Russell a bad center because he was a poor shooter. There are many facets to the game, and you don’t have to be great at ALL of them to be a great player. Vick may not pass like Manning, CPEP or even Kerry Collins, but he is winning; the same way Jason Kidd wins even though he cant shoot – is he an “average” player too? The Falcons record over the years speaks for itself:In 2001, the year before Vick won the starting job, the Falcons finished 7-9. In 2002, with a healthy Vick running the team as a first-time starter, the Falcons went 9-6-1 and beat the Packers in the Playoffs at Lambeau In 2003, with an injured Vick missing most of the year, the Falcons fall to 5-11.In 2004, with a healthy Vick, the Falcons are 11-3.Anyone pushing Big Ben for NFL MVP should also be lobbying for Vick - hes also led his team to a magnificent record, only Vick has been more instrumental in his teams success.As for todays game, Vick was simply amazing - I dont care what the box score reads. He led his team to an early lead and caused fits for a ferocious Panthers D. When the FAlcons coaching staff went conservative on the playcalling, Carolina crawled back into the game. Then with the game on the line, Vick took over and willed the team to victory. Jeez, he doesnt have to break Marino's TD record to be considered a good QB.

Great Post!!!-PNC

Great post...but add in that they were actually 2-10 without him in 2003....then he came back and they went up against their toughest stretch of opponents on the year and they went 3-1.

 

[joffer]

what a great player

 

[packersfan]

ALL of the things being said about Vick nowadays were the exact same things being said about Donovan McNabb.

The rather significant difference, however, is that McNabb has put up impressive passing numbers prior to this season (as well as strong running numbers as well) despite the fact his WRs were worse than what Vick has to work with. So I don't think comparing Vick to McNabb is something that is going to strengthen the pro-Vick point of view.My problem with Vick is that he's hyped relentlessly as being a "great" QB when he clearly isn't. He made some big plays last night, no doubt about it, and the big throw to Dez White was very impressive. The problem with him is that type of play is the exception. He makes so many horrible decisions, he's a turnover waiting to happen (hey where's the guy who took exception when I used that phrase last week? ) and he often struggles to make the most fundamental of passing decisions.Is it tough to learn the WCO? Yup. However, one of the strengths of the WCO is that it is considered a "quarterback-friendly" offense so even though it is tough to master, it is built on a foundation that allows the QB to have success as he evolves within the system. But with Vick, we're not seeing that. He still can't throw for more than 155 yards in any game it seems despite the fact defenses have to be on their heels all game long because of his tremendous running ability.The day Vick can effectively and consistently mix his rushing skills with even adqueate passing ability is the day he'll truly be a great QB. Until that time comes he's nothing more than an exciting player who can't be trusted to win a game doing the things many other QBs around the league have proven they can do significantly better.In my opinion.

 

[Demian]

Thank you for typing that for me packersfan.

 

[msommer]

The rather significant difference, however, is that McNabb has put up impressive passing numbers prior to this season (as well as strong running numbers as well) despite the fact his WRs were worse than what Vick has to work with.

Not sure I agree with this. My idea of impressive is not 58% completion percentage. I agree that McNabb has suffered from poor WRs (Thrash, Pinkston, Mitchell) and that is reflected in his numbers - just see what he has done this year with T.O - improvement to 64% completions.That aside I agree with the spirit of the argument - if Vick had a real #1 receiver (sorry, peerless is anything but as the primary target) he would post better passing numbers. As it is I am impressed with Warrick Dunn and to some extent also with Duckett.In my mind Vick is an exciting athlete, a potentially good if not great qb (in overall evaluation of ALL the aspects that make up quarterbacking). I am not going to expect Manning type passing numbers from him (Manning this year has five receiving threats including a #1 - Vick how many?) any time soon - if Jenkins ever becomes a #1 to Peerless' #2 we might have a ballgame - if the Falcons can emulate the running game of the Colts.

 

[thefatkid13]

Vick positivesgreat feetfantastic mobilitytoughfastWick weaknesseshasn't figured out how to put touch on a balllooks only at one receiver, if covered, he scramblestakes too many chances runningdoesn't make smart decisions with the ball downfieldhe's a great athlete. probably the best athlete in the game right now. but he's not a "great" QB. average QB? yes. Yes, the team wins with him in there. That doesn't make him a "great" QB. Watching the game last nite i noticed that the Falcons had success when handing the ball to Dunn. He was averaging 6 yards a carry. Then, for whatever reason, the coaches decided it was time for Vick to throw. With a 14 point lead.he proceeded to throw incompletion after incompletion.. followed by interceptions.. and fumbles. The offense bogged down. The fell behind by 7 and needed a miracle or three to bring them back.It was almost like practice.. where the coaches ask you to do something, you can't do it and they say "okay! AGAIN! until we get it right!"against any logic they continued to pass pass pass when Dunn was having success on the ground. I was flabbergasted. If you ARE going to pass.. maybe design something to Dunn. Get him in space.Vick never even looks to his checkdown receiver.. did he throw one pass to Dunn in the flat all nite long?

 

[Whatevaman15]

Vick positivesgreat feetfantastic mobilitytoughfastWick weaknesseshasn't figured out how to put touch on a balllooks only at one receiver, if covered, he scramblestakes too many chances runningdoesn't make smart decisions with the ball downfieldhe's a great athlete. probably the best athlete in the game right now. but he's not a "great" QB. average QB? yes. Yes, the team wins with him in there. That doesn't make him a "great" QB. Watching the game last nite i noticed that the Falcons had success when handing the ball to Dunn. He was averaging 6 yards a carry. Then, for whatever reason, the coaches decided it was time for Vick to throw. With a 14 point lead.he proceeded to throw incompletion after incompletion.. followed by interceptions.. and fumbles. The offense bogged down. The fell behind by 7 and needed a miracle or three to bring them back.It was almost like practice.. where the coaches ask you to do something, you can't do it and they say "okay! AGAIN! until we get it right!"against any logic they continued to pass pass pass when Dunn was having success on the ground. I was flabbergasted. If you ARE going to pass.. maybe design something to Dunn. Get him in space.Vick never even looks to his checkdown receiver.. did he throw one pass to Dunn in the flat all nite long?

you forgot one very important positive: he has a rocket arm. Vick isnt just your run of the mill running QB, he is a running QB with one of the strongest arms in the league. Granted, he has still not learned how to make the best use of that arm yet, but it is not uncommon for QBs his age. Keep in mind that he only played 2 years in college, and this is only his 2nd full season of starting in the NFL. Someone like Roethlisberger played 4 years of college (this is off the top of my head, correct me if i am wrong). So Roethlisberger actually has MORE starting experience than Vick.If winning doesnt make a QB, what does? 4000 passing yards? Obviously you and I have different definitions of what you want your QB to do. And to the guys who are saying VIck isnt even an adequate passer...I believe going into yesterday his YPA was around 7.4. What YPA with his "weapons" would you consider adequate.

 

[jesse]

Mike Vick is overrated/overvalued as a NFL and FF QB.

.......and this is and continues to be the reason i posted this thread........he's a no good QB.

 

[BuckeyeArt]

Mike Vick is overrated/overvalued as a NFL and FF QB.

.......and this is and continues to be the reason i posted this thread........he's a no good QB.

So, are you willing to call him a great player? After all, wouldn't a 1000 yd RB with a 7.6 ypc who also threw for 2500 yards while leading his team to the playoffs be worthy of the label 'great'?If not, what does your 'great' player have to do?

 

[JAA]

how many QBs had success in their first year starting in a WCO after having played in a different system?ALL of the things being said about Vick nowadays were the exact same things being said about Donovan McNabb. Now, look at what Donovan is doing with a bonafide stud WR on his team. He's also benefited from playing in the WCO since entering the league. Give Vick a legit #1 WR and more time in that system and he'll put up much better numbers.Regardless, the Falcons are 11-3 and are going to get a 1st round bye. Who else on their team is an elite player? Keith Brooking is, but he's having a down year. You guys are nuts if you don't think Vick is a special player that is deserving of hype. He's one of the most exciting players to watch of all time, and he's leading his team to victory despite subpar passing numbers. What's not to like?

McNabb has been putting up ProBowl numbers with Pinkston and Thrash. McNabb is a career 63% completion and he is called an inaccurate QB. Tell me again about Vick?

 

[joffer]

McNabb is a career 63% completion and he is called an inaccurate QB.

career completion percentage is 58.2 % according to NFL.com6.54 YPAVick is 53.4%6.9 YPAmaybe the more relevant comparison is each of their first 3 years in the league.

 

[jesse]

that's how i feel when i see him passing the ball so badly.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

that's how I feel when I see him running the ball and winning games

 

[jwvdcw]

that's how i feel when i see him passing the ball so badly.

You're complete avoidance of everyone's questions make me think your fishing. If your not, then please answer these questions:1.As long as the guy playing QB helps his team win games, why does it matter whether or not he does it by running or throwing?2.If a QB throws for only 500 yards all season but runs for 4000, do you still think hes a bad QB? Do you not realize that throwing isn't the only thing a QB can do to help his team win?3.Please explain to me how Vick doesn't help his team win more than all except maybe 4 or 5 other QBs in the league.4.Do you seriously think that Falcons aren't happy with their record under Vick? Would you not be happy with that record(compared to their record without him) if you were in charge in Atlanta?

 

[jesse]

MICHAEL VICK BLOWS!!!!!!!!!

 

[KevT]

Vick positivesgreat feetfantastic mobilitytoughfastWick weaknesseshasn't figured out how to put touch on a balllooks only at one receiver, if covered, he scramblestakes too many chances runningdoesn't make smart decisions with the ball downfieldhe's a great athlete. probably the best athlete in the game right now. but he's not a "great" QB. average QB? yes. Yes, the team wins with him in there. That doesn't make him a "great" QB. Watching the game last nite i noticed that the Falcons had success when handing the ball to Dunn. He was averaging 6 yards a carry. Then, for whatever reason, the coaches decided it was time for Vick to throw. With a 14 point lead.he proceeded to throw incompletion after incompletion.. followed by interceptions.. and fumbles. The offense bogged down. The fell behind by 7 and needed a miracle or three to bring them back.It was almost like practice.. where the coaches ask you to do something, you can't do it and they say "okay! AGAIN! until we get it right!"against any logic they continued to pass pass pass when Dunn was having success on the ground. I was flabbergasted. If you ARE going to pass.. maybe design something to Dunn. Get him in space.Vick never even looks to his checkdown receiver.. did he throw one pass to Dunn in the flat all nite long?

As I've said before Vick will never lead a team to a Super Bowl.

 

[Peyton Marino]

Vick positivesgreat feetfantastic mobilitytoughfastWick weaknesseshasn't figured out how to put touch on a balllooks only at one receiver, if covered, he scramblestakes too many chances runningdoesn't make smart decisions with the ball downfieldhe's a great athlete. probably the best athlete in the game right now. but he's not a "great" QB. average QB? yes. Yes, the team wins with him in there. That doesn't make him a "great" QB. Watching the game last nite i noticed that the Falcons had success when handing the ball to Dunn. He was averaging 6 yards a carry. Then, for whatever reason, the coaches decided it was time for Vick to throw. With a 14 point lead.he proceeded to throw incompletion after incompletion.. followed by interceptions.. and fumbles. The offense bogged down. The fell behind by 7 and needed a miracle or three to bring them back.It was almost like practice.. where the coaches ask you to do something, you can't do it and they say "okay! AGAIN! until we get it right!"against any logic they continued to pass pass pass when Dunn was having success on the ground. I was flabbergasted. If you ARE going to pass.. maybe design something to Dunn. Get him in space.Vick never even looks to his checkdown receiver.. did he throw one pass to Dunn in the flat all nite long?

As I've said before Vick will never lead a team to a Super Bowl.

Neither will Peyton Manning.

 

[Peyton Marino]

Vick positivesgreat feetfantastic mobilitytoughfastWick weaknesseshasn't figured out how to put touch on a balllooks only at one receiver, if covered, he scramblestakes too many chances runningdoesn't make smart decisions with the ball downfieldhe's a great athlete. probably the best athlete in the game right now. but he's not a "great" QB. average QB? yes. Yes, the team wins with him in there. That doesn't make him a "great" QB. Watching the game last nite i noticed that the Falcons had success when handing the ball to Dunn. He was averaging 6 yards a carry. Then, for whatever reason, the coaches decided it was time for Vick to throw. With a 14 point lead.he proceeded to throw incompletion after incompletion.. followed by interceptions.. and fumbles. The offense bogged down. The fell behind by 7 and needed a miracle or three to bring them back.It was almost like practice.. where the coaches ask you to do something, you can't do it and they say "okay! AGAIN! until we get it right!"against any logic they continued to pass pass pass when Dunn was having success on the ground. I was flabbergasted. If you ARE going to pass.. maybe design something to Dunn. Get him in space.Vick never even looks to his checkdown receiver.. did he throw one pass to Dunn in the flat all nite long?

As I've said before Vick will never lead a team to a Super Bowl.

Neither did Dan Marino.

 

[jwvdcw]

Vick positivesgreat feetfantastic mobilitytoughfastWick weaknesseshasn't figured out how to put touch on a balllooks only at one receiver, if covered, he scramblestakes too many chances runningdoesn't make smart decisions with the ball downfieldhe's a great athlete. probably the best athlete in the game right now. but he's not a "great" QB. average QB? yes. Yes, the team wins with him in there. That doesn't make him a "great" QB. Watching the game last nite i noticed that the Falcons had success when handing the ball to Dunn. He was averaging 6 yards a carry. Then, for whatever reason, the coaches decided it was time for Vick to throw. With a 14 point lead.he proceeded to throw incompletion after incompletion.. followed by interceptions.. and fumbles. The offense bogged down. The fell behind by 7 and needed a miracle or three to bring them back.It was almost like practice.. where the coaches ask you to do something, you can't do it and they say "okay! AGAIN! until we get it right!"against any logic they continued to pass pass pass when Dunn was having success on the ground. I was flabbergasted. If you ARE going to pass.. maybe design something to Dunn. Get him in space.Vick never even looks to his checkdown receiver.. did he throw one pass to Dunn in the flat all nite long?

As I've said before Vick will never lead a team to a Super Bowl.

I've heard you say this before and I still don't get it.1st year: Sit out and learn the offense2nd year: 2nd round of playoffs3rd year: Hurt, team is terrible without him(3-1 when Vick started)4th year: NFC Title gameI just don't get it- what more could you possible ask of him? Lets use an example: Say Phillip Rivers takes over next year and goes to the 2nd round of the playoffs, then gets hurt in his 3rd year, then goes to the AFC Title game in his 4th year...at that point would you declare that theres no way he'll win a super bowl? Would a Rivers fan not be happy with that performance? I think that is great for a young QB!

 

[Capella]

Vick positivesgreat feetfantastic mobilitytoughfastWick weaknesseshasn't figured out how to put touch on a balllooks only at one receiver, if covered, he scramblestakes too many chances runningdoesn't make smart decisions with the ball downfieldhe's a great athlete. probably the best athlete in the game right now. but he's not a "great" QB. average QB? yes. Yes, the team wins with him in there. That doesn't make him a "great" QB. Watching the game last nite i noticed that the Falcons had success when handing the ball to Dunn. He was averaging 6 yards a carry. Then, for whatever reason, the coaches decided it was time for Vick to throw. With a 14 point lead.he proceeded to throw incompletion after incompletion.. followed by interceptions.. and fumbles. The offense bogged down. The fell behind by 7 and needed a miracle or three to bring them back.It was almost like practice.. where the coaches ask you to do something, you can't do it and they say "okay! AGAIN! until we get it right!"against any logic they continued to pass pass pass when Dunn was having success on the ground. I was flabbergasted. If you ARE going to pass.. maybe design something to Dunn. Get him in space.Vick never even looks to his checkdown receiver.. did he throw one pass to Dunn in the flat all nite long?

As I've said before Vick will never lead a team to a Super Bowl.

dude is like 24 or something, in his first year in a new offense.give me a break.