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Is there a need for alcohol consumption that puts you over the legal limit to drive? (1 Viewer)

KCitons said:
Sorry. I took your post as something else. At this point I just assume all questions are leading to an attack. Not that I'm a victim.

How do I feel about knives? I believe they are ok. I know most cities have some type of regulation on them. (Ours is 3 or 3.5 inch blade I would categorize them the same as a handgun. By themselves they are fine. In the hands of someone that wants to do harm, it's a weapon
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How do you feel about rocks?

 
KCitons said:
Do you think we do enough to prevent the misuse of alcohol? Specifically drinuking and driving.
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 This thread is getting away from you because:

Nobody can even understand what you are saying/trying to say.

Start making sense. 

You are all over the place and I can't find a drop of non gobblede#### to grab onto.

 
Otis said:
What is the purpose of an assault rifle?

The fastest and most efficient wounding and killing of people.  Right?  So let’s keep our analogies in that category of stuff and see where it leads us?  Or I suppose that’s a pretty inconvenient way look at it for some...
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Wrong thread. If we are going to continue comparing alcohol and assault rifles, we could have just kept it in the other thread.

I'm not arguing the purpose of either. Just the effect that each has in terms of lost lives and whether or not we need either. Based on your statement, all guns should be banned. There is no need for you to have a shotgun if there is any other method available. You probably have it loaded with 00 buckshot in order to up the stopping power. Why not use salt pellets or rubber bullets. Point being, there are levels to everything. It takes a bad person to bring out the worst. Whether it's alcohol or guns.

 
##### gets censored?

eta - is  g o o k   a bad word/slur?  Do I need to brush up on my slander jargon?

 
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matuski said:
 This thread is getting away from you because:

Nobody can even understand what you are saying/trying to say.

Start making sense. 

You are all over the place and I can't find a drop of non gobblede#### to grab onto.
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sorry, it spans 2 threads.

Cliff notes.

Assault rifles and alcohol, when used improperly, lead to many deaths each year. With one casualties occur in a short time span the other over the course of the entire year. Both are benign when left by themselves on a shelf. Both are used by a percentage of the population as a way to have fun or let off steam. Both are used by a percentage of the population in a way that causes loss of life. 

When asked if we need assault rifles, the comparison i gave was alcohol. There is no need for it, it also leads to more deaths than assault rifles each year. People have a funny understanding of what they need.

 
I just wish someone would spend some time talking about all the drunk drivers in Chicago every year, where they have really strict DUI laws.

 
KCitons said:
sorry, it spans 2 threads.

Cliff notes.

Assault rifles and alcohol, when used improperly, lead to many deaths each year. With one casualties occur in a short time span the other over the course of the entire year. Both are benign when left by themselves on a shelf. Both are used by a percentage of the population as a way to have fun or let off steam. Both are used by a percentage of the population in a way that causes loss of life. 

When asked if we need assault rifles, the comparison i gave was alcohol. There is no need for it, it also leads to more deaths than assault rifles each year. People have a funny understanding of what they need.
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Your attempt to compare guns to alcohol is where you stopped making sense.

So from the start.

 
KCitons said:
Seems we could save lives by asking people to submit to a breathalyzer before serving.

We should also limit sales to single beers or airplane sized bottles of hard alcohol. Sales should be tracked so someone can't just walk into 6 different stores in the hour. 

First offense DUI should carry a $250k fine and 10 years in jail. 
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What kind of jacked up society are you suggesting to exist here?  I don't want to live in a world where what isn't compulsory is forbidden.

 
KCitons said:
Do you think we do enough to prevent the misuse of alcohol? Specifically drinuking and driving.
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We could probably do more but we at least do something - DUI checkpoints for example.  And long term drink driving (along with distracted driving and aggressive driving) will go way down or be eliminated by technology. 

Do you think we are doing enough to prevent the misuse of guns?

 
AAABatteries said:
We could probably do more but we at least do something - DUI checkpoints for example.  And long term drink driving (along with distracted driving and aggressive driving) will go way down or be eliminated by technology. 

Do you think we are doing enough to prevent the misuse of guns?
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No. But the discussion isn't about preventing misuse of guns. Originally, it was about whether or not we need things that have no purpose other than to kill a lot of people quickly. 

I'm all for stricter gun laws for bump stocks, magazine size and certain weapons. If possible, I would be for banning all guns, but I know the results would not work and therefore we need to concentrate on why people choose to shoot others. Especially in mass. Perhaps stricter monitary penalties for firearms and DUI. Use that to fund programs to prevent. Although, I'm still skeptical that we can irradicate enough to make a difference. 

 
AAABatteries said:
We could probably do more but we at least do something - DUI checkpoints for example.  And long term drink driving (along with distracted driving and aggressive driving) will go way down or be eliminated by technology. 

Do you think we are doing enough to prevent the misuse of guns?
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And I'm on the fence about self driving cars. I know it may be black helicopter stuff, but was reading that there is concern over the recent collisions involving Navy ships. If true, and somone can tap into our Naval navigation, imagine the damage they could do by taking control of a millions of autonomous vehicles.

 
KCitons said:
No. But the discussion isn't about preventing misuse of guns. Originally, it was about whether or not we need things that have no purpose other than to kill a lot of people quickly. 

I'm all for stricter gun laws for bump stocks, magazine size and certain weapons. If possible, I would be for banning all guns, but I know the results would not work and therefore we need to concentrate on why people choose to shoot others. Especially in mass. Perhaps stricter monitary penalties for firearms and DUI. Use that to fund programs to prevent. Although, I'm still skeptical that we can irradicate enough to make a difference. 
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Then you are in agreement with the vast majority of people who want to get something done - you just have a weird way of showing it.

 
AAABatteries said:
Then you are in agreement with the vast majority of people who want to get something done - you just have a weird way of showing it.
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its the problem with having discussions on a message board. People don't really know each other and don't remember conversations from months ago.

Of course there's no need for assault rifles. It falls under the category of a luxury. I don't own one because of the expense involved with shooting. But, I respect that others want to. The reason for wanting to ban them is to save lives. Thats a valuable reason and the same reason I support it. 

I was making the comparison to alcohol, because it too is a luxury. And can also lead to death of innocent people. I know there may not be the same intent as shooting an assault rifle into a crowd, but the results (although over a longer span) lead to more deaths annually. 

As someone mentioned, why not do both. We can, but the current and proposed penalties for assault rifles is not in line with DUI penalties. Possession of an automatic weapon without proper registration is 10 years and $250k. That's just possession. No ammo. No shooting. By contrast, someone found to be driving while intoxicated gets a fraction of that, even though they were caught in an act that could kill someone. 

 
KCitons said:
its the problem with having discussions on a message board. People don't really know each other and don't remember conversations from months ago.

Of course there's no need for assault rifles. It falls under the category of a luxury. I don't own one because of the expense involved with shooting. But, I respect that others want to. The reason for wanting to ban them is to save lives. Thats a valuable reason and the same reason I support it. 

I was making the comparison to alcohol, because it too is a luxury. And can also lead to death of innocent people. I know there may not be the same intent as shooting an assault rifle into a crowd, but the results (although over a longer span) lead to more deaths annually. 

As someone mentioned, why not do both. We can, but the current and proposed penalties for assault rifles is not in line with DUI penalties. Possession of an automatic weapon without proper registration is 10 years and $250k. That's just possession. No ammo. No shooting. By contrast, someone found to be driving while intoxicated gets a fraction of that, even though they were caught in an act that could kill someone. 
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So the one luxury a homeless person has is alcohol?   Your realities are different than most peoples.

 
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KCitons said:
sorry, it spans 2 threads.

Cliff notes.

Assault rifles and alcohol, when used improperly, lead to many deaths each year. With one casualties occur in a short time span the other over the course of the entire year. Both are benign when left by themselves on a shelf. Both are used by a percentage of the population as a way to have fun or let off steam. Both are used by a percentage of the population in a way that causes loss of life. 

When asked if we need assault rifles, the comparison i gave was alcohol. There is no need for it, it also leads to more deaths than assault rifles each year. People have a funny understanding of what they need.
Click to expand...
Wait what does this thread have to do with assault rifles? I don't understand, I thought this was about alcohol and sporks.

 
KCitons said:
its the problem with having discussions on a message board. People don't really know each other and don't remember conversations from months ago.

Of course there's no need for assault rifles. It falls under the category of a luxury. I don't own one because of the expense involved with shooting. But, I respect that others want to. The reason for wanting to ban them is to save lives. Thats a valuable reason and the same reason I support it. 

I was making the comparison to alcohol, because it too is a luxury. And can also lead to death of innocent people. I know there may not be the same intent as shooting an assault rifle into a crowd, but the results (although over a longer span) lead to more deaths annually. 

As someone mentioned, why not do both. We can, but the current and proposed penalties for assault rifles is not in line with DUI penalties. Possession of an automatic weapon without proper registration is 10 years and $250k. That's just possession. No ammo. No shooting. By contrast, someone found to be driving while intoxicated gets a fraction of that, even though they were caught in an act that could kill someone. 
Click to expand...
Well, that's because unlike you, our judicial system (rightly) considers intent an important factor when levying penalties.

 
KCitons said:
Seems we could save lives by asking people to submit to a breathalyzer before serving.

We should also limit sales to single beers or airplane sized bottles of hard alcohol. Sales should be tracked so someone can't just walk into 6 different stores in the hour. 

First offense DUI should carry a $250k fine and 10 years in jail. 
Click to expand...
WTF....

 
KCitons said:
So possessing a fully automatic rifle shows intent to commit a mass murder? 
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No, using it to kill someone shows intent. 

You are equating buying a rifle with drinking alcohol. You should be equating it to buying alcohol. 

If you wanted to argue that you should limit how high in alcohol content a beer can be (they have limits on this in some states) or that you shouldn't be able to buy a 5 gallon jug of grain alcohol (I've yet to see this) I doubt you'd get much pushback.

But you are falsely relating restricting sales of high powered, high capacity rifles with getting drunk. 

Further, intent is a factor when a crime has been committed. The goal is to prevent death, the crime for alcohol being drunk driving, the crime for a AR type rifle being murder. To commit murder you need to intend to harm someone. It's willful. When someone gets behind the wheel drunk and kills someone, they did not intend to do so. It is negligence.

These different motives, intents, require different handling, yet you still think you can equate them apples to apples. No amount of reasoning or lucid arguments will convince you otherwise, which is why frustrated people have resorted to questioning your intelligence. 

 
Harry Manback said:
Why do you keep talking about rifles? I thought this was about alcohol? I'm so confused.
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Driving to a bar with the intent if drinking for hours and then driving home shows intent. Studies show alcohol impairs driving. Impaired driving can cause accidents and loss of life. 

Satisfied?

 
FWIW, I'd happily support a mandatory minimum $20k fine and 3 year prison sentence for some level of DUI, like if someone is 2x the limit. 

@Harry Manback It's a nice effort, but you should prob throw in the towel on this one. When someone starts with such flawed logic, no matter how sensible your argument is, you can't convert them.

 
fantasycurse42 said:
FWIW, I'd happily support a mandatory minimum $20k fine and 3 year prison sentence for some level of DUI, like if someone is 2x the limit. 

@Harry Manback It's a nice effort, but you should prob throw in the towel on this one. When someone starts with such flawed logic, no matter how sensible your argument is, you can't convert them.
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My poor keyboard can't handle much more abuse.

 
KCitons said:
Driving to a bar with the intent if drinking for hours and then driving home shows intent. Studies show alcohol impairs driving. Impaired driving can cause accidents and loss of life. 

Satisfied?
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What you'd be proposing is ignition locks in cars people would need to use, that prevent driving if they blow a .08. Which is a far cry from banning all alcohol. The talk is of banning a very specific type of gun (not all guns) that can lead to mass loss of life easier than any other type of readily available weapon. 

But to be honest, as much as I've enjoyed trying to explain something to you that shouldn't have to be explained, it's giving me a headache, and quite frankly you're not worth it.

 
Harry Manback said:
What you'd be proposing is ignition locks in cars people would need to use, that prevent driving if they blow a .08. Which is a far cry from banning all alcohol. The talk is of banning a very specific type of gun (not all guns) that can lead to mass loss of life easier than any other type of readily available weapon. 

But to be honest, as much as I've enjoyed trying to explain something to you that shouldn't have to be explained, it's giving me a headache, and quite frankly you're not worth it.
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And banning assault rifles is different from banning all guns. 

Both are working towards the same thing, preventing loss of life.

 
AAABatteries said:
Then you are in agreement with the vast majority of people who want to get something done - you just have a weird way of showing it.
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I think KCitons is actually making a valid point and he isnt coming from the angle I think everybody jumped to conclusions about. 

I am not a gun nut. I own one pellet gun currently. I turned in my rifles long ago when I became a vegetarian. I grew up target shooting on a regular basis during summers. It is fun, but I lived in an area that was mountains and desert so we could always find safe places to shoot. I don't enjoy it enough that I would drive any kind of distance for it. 

I support bans on bump stocks, ammo registration, background checks, higher taxes, fees, etc, but I can at least understand the other side of the argument. I don't care about the argument, since I am a selfish person and would prefer these things not exist since I get zero benefit from them, but I at least understand the viewpoint. 

Alcohol is a fair comparison. How many people are killed every year around fourth of july from drunk driving and drunk boating?Probably at least 58 of them. I dont see threads about that or people getting up in arms. I don't start those threads either, nor do I campaign against alcohol when it happens. I enjoy drinking. I have a ridiculous home brewing setup and have capacity for 10 kegs all with their own tap lines. So of course I dont want more laws in place.

I at least see alcohol for what it is. It is for my recreation and enjoyment. It serves no legitimate purpose other than that and it causes quite a few casualties when misused. Sure you can do other things with it, but it isn't what you would go buy to do those things properly(killing bugs? Nice try henry) or they are just a preference. Just because I can use a gun as a paperweight, doesn't make it a paperweight. But, but you can make vodka sauce!! 

I find it weird to want to go out on the weekend and shoot 1000 rounds or to hunt deer using that kind of firepower. I also realize there are perfectly good hearted responsible citizens that do this and enjoy it. They may think I am crazy for what I do involving alcohol.

I think if we can all acknowledge that fact and be mindful of it, we would be far more likely to actually come up with some better laws that would help catch the real psychos. Sure it may put more of a burden on hobbyists financially and documentation-wise, but it wont eliminate what has until now been a perfectly legal right. 

 
Harry Manback said:
Again, the proper analogy would be:
 

"Which is worse, driving drunk or firing an AR into a crowd"

I hope you know the answer to that.
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I do, but thanks for your concern.

So, why is the penalty for possession of an assault rifle not in line with DUI? Or vice versa. Both are crimes.

 
Nugget said:
What categories do you have between need and luxury?  Would you feel better if the term was want?  
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You can't get a bottle of luxury for 2 bucks or make that luxury for a 1.50 in your basement with common items.  It's a vice. 

 
i have no problem with an interlock system being standard on cars honest i know that me and my buddies would hate it and complain about it but f it if it saves lives then up ours hell they make cars that you can hook up to your phone now i am pretty sure they can make an old blowin tube somewhere in there take that to the bank brochachos 

 
KCitons said:
I do, but thanks for your concern.

So, why is the penalty for possession of an assault rifle not in line with DUI? Or vice versa. Both are crimes.
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Because it makes no freaking sense.   Being drunk with an assault rifle is in line with a DUI.   Having a car is legal, having a rifle is legal.

Any assault rifle that was in the US before May 18, 1986 that is registered with the federal government and owned by a licensed owner willing to sell theirs. The purchaser must first pass all of the federal requirements to qualify to become a licensed owner. Such weapons are so rare, old (at least 31 years old), and expensive that they are strictly luxury collectible items for the very wealthy.

 
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