Jacob Hester - LSU RB (1 Viewer)

[TLEF316]

reminds me of Peyton Manning...

 

[TheFanatic]

reminds me of Peyton Manning...

In what way?

 

[Gr00vus]

I've only made it through the 1st half of Sat's game so far (have been out of town), but I've already seen Hester stone Zach Thomas on a block and literally run over another Cowboy LB on a run. The announcers were remarking on a conversation they'd had with Norv in which Norv mentioned his plans were to use Hester in the Michael Turner mop up/relief role, that he brought many of the same things Turner did (read: punishing teams at the end of games while chewing up the clock).

Temper any enthusiasm for his PT/role with the Chargers going forward with the knowledge that Sproles has looked absolutely dynamite as well - Sproles will get some touches on offense (not just returning). Also they've got a free agent rookie named Mike Tolbert who they're converting to FB who's looked great so far (he also scored on Sat). What I'm saying is the backfield is going to be crowded by design (and that's without considering Pinnock who's been hurt and will return at some point).

In my opinion, between a subtle shift towards making the passing game as prevalent (if not slightly moreso) as the run game, the availability of several viable weapons in the backfield, Norv's propensity to like to keep the opposing defense off balance, and the desire to stretch LaDainian's career as far as possible, I think LaDainian might see fewer touches than we're used to going forward. As a Charger fan I feel this is a good thing (I think these other guys will be very effective when utilized properly to the extent that it will offset the negative of not having the ball in the hands of the best player in the game as often), I'm not sure what it'll mean from a FF perspective. It could result in somewhat smaller numbers for LaDainian, or it could break even since it'll keep LaDainian fresh and soften up the defense for him.

Anyway, Hester looks to be everything he's been advertised as being.

When has Norv ever been for limiting his RB's touches? When has Norv ever pushed for a strong passing game? In Dallas? In Washington? With Oakland? With San Fran?

Ever since he's arrived in San Diego he's been talking about adding new wrinkles to the passing game, utilizing more guys in the passing game, expanding the passing portion of the playbook, getting Rivers more comfortable with a more complex passing scheme. And that's exactly what's been going on since he's arrived. I never said he'd limit RB touches - I said LaDainian might get fewer touches. There's a difference. I think there will be a redistribution of some of LaDainian's touches to other guys - could be Hester, could be Sproles, could be Vincent Jackson, etc.. The point is he's going to integrate more guys and more plays into the game plan - he's diversifying the offense to a much greater extent than it was under Marty. A prominent, but widely overlooked, artifact of this change in emphasis was Lorenzo Neal asking out of San Diego - the offensive game plan had changed so much that he felt he wasn't getting enough action/PT, whereas before he was on the field virtually all the time. It's been a big shift in philosophy. It makes sense going forward too - the long term future of the Chargers' offense is shifting from LaDainian (he's nearing the danger zone age wise for RBs) to Phil. It won't happen over night, but I can see it being gradually worked in so that the day the wheels come off LaDainian (not something I'm looking forward to, but inevitable), the transition won't be as rough.The team started to get it towards the end of the season after struggling early. Now that they're another year into the system I expect huge things from this offense. The key is keeping the guys up front healthy, which is a problem right now.

 

[Raider Nation]

reminds me of Peyton Manning...

In what way?

DUH!They both played in the SEC.

 

[TheFanatic]

I've only made it through the 1st half of Sat's game so far (have been out of town), but I've already seen Hester stone Zach Thomas on a block and literally run over another Cowboy LB on a run. The announcers were remarking on a conversation they'd had with Norv in which Norv mentioned his plans were to use Hester in the Michael Turner mop up/relief role, that he brought many of the same things Turner did (read: punishing teams at the end of games while chewing up the clock).

Temper any enthusiasm for his PT/role with the Chargers going forward with the knowledge that Sproles has looked absolutely dynamite as well - Sproles will get some touches on offense (not just returning). Also they've got a free agent rookie named Mike Tolbert who they're converting to FB who's looked great so far (he also scored on Sat). What I'm saying is the backfield is going to be crowded by design (and that's without considering Pinnock who's been hurt and will return at some point).

In my opinion, between a subtle shift towards making the passing game as prevalent (if not slightly moreso) as the run game, the availability of several viable weapons in the backfield, Norv's propensity to like to keep the opposing defense off balance, and the desire to stretch LaDainian's career as far as possible, I think LaDainian might see fewer touches than we're used to going forward. As a Charger fan I feel this is a good thing (I think these other guys will be very effective when utilized properly to the extent that it will offset the negative of not having the ball in the hands of the best player in the game as often), I'm not sure what it'll mean from a FF perspective. It could result in somewhat smaller numbers for LaDainian, or it could break even since it'll keep LaDainian fresh and soften up the defense for him.

Anyway, Hester looks to be everything he's been advertised as being.

When has Norv ever been for limiting his RB's touches? When has Norv ever pushed for a strong passing game? In Dallas? In Washington? With Oakland? With San Fran?

Ever since he's arrived in San Diego he's been talking about adding new wrinkles to the passing game, utilizing more guys in the passing game, expanding the passing portion of the playbook, getting Rivers more comfortable with a more complex passing scheme. And that's exactly what's been going on since he's arrived. I never said he'd limit RB touches - I said LaDainian might get fewer touches. There's a difference. I think there will be a redistribution of some of LaDainian's touches to other guys - could be Hester, could be Sproles, could be Vincent Jackson, etc.. The point is he's going to integrate more guys and more plays into the game plan - he's diversifying the offense to a much greater extent than it was under Marty. A prominent, but widely overlooked, artifact of this change in emphasis was Lorenzo Neal asking out of San Diego - the offensive game plan had changed so much that he felt he wasn't getting enough action/PT, whereas before he was on the field virtually all the time. It's been a big shift in philosophy. It makes sense going forward too - the long term future of the Chargers' offense is shifting from LaDainian (he's nearing the danger zone age wise for RBs) to Phil. It won't happen over night, but I can see it being gradually worked in so that the day the wheels come off LaDainian (not something I'm looking forward to, but inevitable), the transition won't be as rough.The team started to get it towards the end of the season after struggling early. Now that they're another year into the system I expect huge things from this offense. The key is keeping the guys up front healthy, which is a problem right now.

OK, then show me a time when he limited his RB's touches? Spread the ball around to the other RBs' on his team? That has never happened...

 

[Gr00vus]

I've only made it through the 1st half of Sat's game so far (have been out of town), but I've already seen Hester stone Zach Thomas on a block and literally run over another Cowboy LB on a run. The announcers were remarking on a conversation they'd had with Norv in which Norv mentioned his plans were to use Hester in the Michael Turner mop up/relief role, that he brought many of the same things Turner did (read: punishing teams at the end of games while chewing up the clock).

Temper any enthusiasm for his PT/role with the Chargers going forward with the knowledge that Sproles has looked absolutely dynamite as well - Sproles will get some touches on offense (not just returning). Also they've got a free agent rookie named Mike Tolbert who they're converting to FB who's looked great so far (he also scored on Sat). What I'm saying is the backfield is going to be crowded by design (and that's without considering Pinnock who's been hurt and will return at some point).

In my opinion, between a subtle shift towards making the passing game as prevalent (if not slightly moreso) as the run game, the availability of several viable weapons in the backfield, Norv's propensity to like to keep the opposing defense off balance, and the desire to stretch LaDainian's career as far as possible, I think LaDainian might see fewer touches than we're used to going forward. As a Charger fan I feel this is a good thing (I think these other guys will be very effective when utilized properly to the extent that it will offset the negative of not having the ball in the hands of the best player in the game as often), I'm not sure what it'll mean from a FF perspective. It could result in somewhat smaller numbers for LaDainian, or it could break even since it'll keep LaDainian fresh and soften up the defense for him.

Anyway, Hester looks to be everything he's been advertised as being.

When has Norv ever been for limiting his RB's touches? When has Norv ever pushed for a strong passing game? In Dallas? In Washington? With Oakland? With San Fran?

Ever since he's arrived in San Diego he's been talking about adding new wrinkles to the passing game, utilizing more guys in the passing game, expanding the passing portion of the playbook, getting Rivers more comfortable with a more complex passing scheme. And that's exactly what's been going on since he's arrived. I never said he'd limit RB touches - I said LaDainian might get fewer touches. There's a difference. I think there will be a redistribution of some of LaDainian's touches to other guys - could be Hester, could be Sproles, could be Vincent Jackson, etc.. The point is he's going to integrate more guys and more plays into the game plan - he's diversifying the offense to a much greater extent than it was under Marty. A prominent, but widely overlooked, artifact of this change in emphasis was Lorenzo Neal asking out of San Diego - the offensive game plan had changed so much that he felt he wasn't getting enough action/PT, whereas before he was on the field virtually all the time. It's been a big shift in philosophy. It makes sense going forward too - the long term future of the Chargers' offense is shifting from LaDainian (he's nearing the danger zone age wise for RBs) to Phil. It won't happen over night, but I can see it being gradually worked in so that the day the wheels come off LaDainian (not something I'm looking forward to, but inevitable), the transition won't be as rough.The team started to get it towards the end of the season after struggling early. Now that they're another year into the system I expect huge things from this offense. The key is keeping the guys up front healthy, which is a problem right now.

OK, then show me a time when he limited his RB's touches? Spread the ball around to the other RBs' on his team? That has never happened...

It happened last year to an extent.Last year LaDainian's total touches in comparison to the team's total touches (rushing attempts + receptions) of games he actually played in was tied for the lowest of his career at 49%.

In 2001 it was 53%

In 2002 it was 57%

In 2003 it was 58%

In 2004 it was 51% (dnp game 17, that game has been removed from the analysis)

In 2005 it was 49%

In 2006 it was 50%

So we've got a pattern established here of less touches to begin with.

Last year was his second lowest number of rushing attempts in his career at 315, surpassed only by 2003 in which he got only 313 carries - but also got 100 receptions - the year in which he accumulated his highest percentage of touches. Last year Sproles was working his way back from an injury and became a bigger factor as the year went on. Also last year things changed dramatically around when mid season when Chris Chambers was acquired and the team had had more time in the offense.

We've got a coach who's actively adding new dimensions to the passing game and giving Rivers a much more extensive play book to work with. He's stated that he's looking to balance the offense and keep opposing defenses guessing to a greater extent than the Chargers have in recent history on many occasions, that Phil is going to be the leader of this team going forward. They have a diverse stable of running backs, which Norv has stated he intends to use in many ways on more occasions combined with the best receiving corps the Chargers have had in quite some time.

The Chargers have the talent and diversity on offense to be less of a one man show, and Norv realizes that. With Hester filling Turner's role, an extra play or two allocated to Sproles, and a full season of Chambers (with a thereby improved Vincent Jackson as well) I'm saying the days of LaDainian getting over 50% of the offensive touches for his team are pretty much over by design. Not a huge drop, but maybe down to 47 or 48% - lower than it's ever been. I don't know why you find that such a disagreeable concept.

 

[TheFanatic]

Does anyone really think that Hester is LT's backup now?

 

[QUEZILLA]

Looking like I may have to cut this guy.

 

[TheFanatic]

Looking like I may have to cut this guy.

In one league I drafted him just this last Sat and was trying to move him to the LT owner. That's not going to happen. In another league I drafted Sproles and not Hester and was going to cut Sproles and pick up Hester later in the season (contract league, so his salary would be prorated for a partial season). Went ahead and signed Sproles....The kid looked sick last night. And getting a GL TD cinched it for me...

 

[TheFanatic]

Bang up job on Ryan Leaf. Rivers over Brees. Nice job there too. Damn good job in evaluating WR talent as well. They made a great call on LT. And they may have made a great call on Turner but we really don't know yet. So, be sure to stock up on Charger WR's and grab Rivers and Hester and if LT goes down you should be in great shape

Everyone makes mistakes. Oh, and the Bears and the Rams both have been to the SB in the last 10 years. How far have the Chargers made it in that time?

But hey, trust whatever coach speak you hear the week after the draft. It should take you far. When's the last time a coach or GM came out and said anything negative, and I mean anything other than a guy is raw, about a player they drafted the week after the draft?

Do you expect them to say, "hester is a tweener that gives a lot of options should LT go down but he's by no means a long term solution for anything and will likely split time with Sproles in that event?"

Either way, do you really see anyone starting either Sproles or Hester should LT go down in FFB? You might get lucky and start one and that guy get in the endzone twice but it's still a huge long shot that either will be very productive.

Oh, and please post the link to AJ saying that he had Hester pegged as LT's backup in November. I believe that he said that he was targeting Hester once he left LSU's campus. Was AJ at an LSU game in Nov? Was he actively working out college players before the end of the season?

1) Right away you start off pretty badly, not knowing your facts. What does AJ Smith have to do with Ryan Leaf? Are you just pulling arguments out of your ###? Leaf was long before Smith came along. Beathard drafted him.2) Arguing that the Rams and Bears have been to the SB in the last 10 years and the Chargers have not is totally irrelevant. Your comment regarding the Bears was "Do you believe Lovie Smith and the Bears GM when they say they really didn't need to draft a QB in the 2008 draft" (which made no sense BTW since they didn't draft a QB in 2008), and your point about the Rams drafting Leonard as the handcuff in 2007 has nothing to do with a Super Bowl won years ago with a whole different coaching and front office staff. Bizarre argument there by you.

3) AJ drafted Turner in the 5th round and you don't know yet if that was a good pick? Uh, OK... Look, I'm not going to argue about every pick or move he ever made, and if you like Brees over Rivers, fine. But drafting Manning and swapping him for Rivers also netted picks that became Kaeding and Merriman, and Brees had a torn labrum when he left, so there was a lot of justifiable concern there. AJ also found some UDFA named Antonio Gates that worked out pretty well.

4) As for coachspeak, you're just not getting it. It's not coachspeak to trade a 2nd next year and a 5th this year to get a player they badly want. It's action. It's got nothing to do with positive fluff. They got their man, went out of their way to do so, and told the media why. What should we do, instead assume every single comment anyone in the NFL makes is a lie? This isn't pre-draft talk, or pre-game talk, so why would they lie? They told it like it is. They got the guy they wanted. They didn't trade up to just take whoever might be available. They traded up for one guy, and then told the media what their plans are for him. Geez.

5) Do I think anyone would actually start Hester if LT went down? Are you kidding me? Gee, why would I start the SD tailback I wonder. Tough call there.

6) You want a link on the November comment, and your tone implies I'm full of it, sarcastically stating "Was AJ at an LSU game in Nov? Was he actively working out college players before the end of the season?"

Here you go pal.

First a write-up from Rotowire:

http://www.rotowire.com/roto_to_gnews.htm?...6&sport=nfl

General Manager A.J. Smith says that he has been targeting Hester as the primary backup for LaDainian Tomlinson since seeing him back at LSU in November. The Chargers wanted Hester so badly that they traded a 2009 second-round draft pick along with a fifth-rounder this year for the right to select Hester in the third round on Sunday. He is being described as strong and deceptively quick, and appears to be the overwhelming favorite to replace Michael Turner, who departed in free agency this offseason.

But of course you won't trust a non-direct quote, so go back and re-read Bloom's post #57 above, quoting Smith:

Asked when he first targeted Hester, Smith said, “When I left the LSU campus in November.”

I'm done here. You try to argue without knowledge or facts and it just makes you look bad.

Third preseason game. No LT. Bang up job by AJ's guy with those 21 yards on 9 carries.

 

[Gr00vus]

Third preseason game. No LT. Bang up job by AJ's guy with those 21 yards on 9 carries.

:( Not a great performance to be sure, but I don't think anything's changed from the Chargers' perspective. Hester and Sproles will both get used in certain situations. If LaDainian went down they'd share touches pretty evenly. With LaDainian around they'll still both get a few touches in the regular flow of the game, but Hester will be the mop up man like Turner was last year.I wouldn't get too high or too low on either one right now.

 

[TheFanatic]

Third preseason game. No LT. Bang up job by AJ's guy with those 21 yards on 9 carries.

Not a great performance to be sure, but I don't think anything's changed from the Chargers' perspective. Hester and Sproles will both get used in certain situations. If LaDainian went down they'd share touches pretty evenly. With LaDainian around they'll still both get a few touches in the regular flow of the game, but Hester will be the mop up man like Turner was last year.

I wouldn't get too high or too low on either one right now.

What makes you say that? So far he has been used as a FB and sometimes as a short yardage back and in that respect, Sproles did better in short yardage plays....

 

[Gr00vus]

Third preseason game. No LT. Bang up job by AJ's guy with those 21 yards on 9 carries.

Not a great performance to be sure, but I don't think anything's changed from the Chargers' perspective. Hester and Sproles will both get used in certain situations. If LaDainian went down they'd share touches pretty evenly. With LaDainian around they'll still both get a few touches in the regular flow of the game, but Hester will be the mop up man like Turner was last year.

I wouldn't get too high or too low on either one right now.

What makes you say that? So far he has been used as a FB and sometimes as a short yardage back and in that respect, Sproles did better in short yardage plays....

What makes me say that is that's what Norv and A.J. have said. It also makes the most sense. The goal with Turner in the mop up role was to chew up the yards, chew up the clock and beat down the defense even more. It just so happened that Turner was so talented that he would break long runs in that situation as well - but the long runs were icing on the cake, not the main course. Hester fits that role much better than Sproles. Additionally Sproles is a bit fragile, they aren't going to pound him into the line play after play in obvious running situations. Note that on his TD last night the Chargers were in a balanced formation, not a power running formation, and the D wasn't selling out to stop the run. He's NEVER been used as a full back, and he never will be.

 

[Football Jones]

I'm not a big handcuff guy, but if you're going to do it (& can only have one), Hester is your guy, IMO (especially in dynasty leagues). Preseason PT can be deceiving. I believe they drafted Hester for that particular purpose & he'll get first crack at it.

It remains to be seen exactly how they'll use Hester & Sproles, but Hester will get more touches, IMO. Some of the touches will come at FB & the others will come spelling LT. That said, I definitely can see them giving Sproles some touches (mostly receptions) depending on the game plan/situation.

 

[noneother]

I picked him up as the change of pace back from the other 2.... Thomas and Sproles, looks to me like Hester is in the niche, I'll chalk last night up to rookie play.

I think he's a good bye week cover, hoping he hawks a TD or two... I think that becomes his major role about mid season, to keep the wear off LT...

 

[TheFanatic]

I think if Hester was the guy to mop up late he would've started last night. They gave him a lot of work in the first two games and Sproles very little. But in the all important 3rd game they gave the ball early and often to sproles, and even more interesting, they gave him the ball at the goal line. If they were worried about DS's durability, I doubt they give him the ball there....

 

[Gr00vus]

I think if Hester was the guy to mop up late he would've started last night.

Think about what you're saying here a little bit. It doesn't make sense.What you saw last night is pretty much exactly how things would go down if LaDainian missed time. Hester would still get 1st and 2nd crack at any goal line carries. The only thing we didn't see was how the Chargers will handle the offense when they're closing out a game with a big lead. I'm pretty sure in that situation Hester is going to get most of the 1st and 2nd down work, as well as 3rd down work if it's not long yardage.

 

[TheFanatic]

I think if Hester was the guy to mop up late he would've started last night.

Think about what you're saying here a little bit. It doesn't make sense.What you saw last night is pretty much exactly how things would go down if LaDainian missed time. Hester would still get 1st and 2nd crack at any goal line carries. The only thing we didn't see was how the Chargers will handle the offense when they're closing out a game with a big lead. I'm pretty sure in that situation Hester is going to get most of the 1st and 2nd down work, as well as 3rd down work if it's not long yardage.

Last year the guy that got the mop up duty started the 3rd game of the preseason

 

[Gr00vus]

I think if Hester was the guy to mop up late he would've started last night.

Think about what you're saying here a little bit. It doesn't make sense.What you saw last night is pretty much exactly how things would go down if LaDainian missed time. Hester would still get 1st and 2nd crack at any goal line carries. The only thing we didn't see was how the Chargers will handle the offense when they're closing out a game with a big lead. I'm pretty sure in that situation Hester is going to get most of the 1st and 2nd down work, as well as 3rd down work if it's not long yardage.

Last year the guy that got the mop up duty started the 3rd game of the preseason

mop up role != starting 3rd game of preseasonMichael Turner >>> Hester

Michael Turner >>> Sproles

Neither of the guys they have this year had the complete skill set that Turner does. Thus they'll both be used in different situations to replace Turner's skills and production as they both offer a different subset of Turner's skills. I don't know why you can't see that, but it's plain as day to anyone who's paying attention to the Chargers this year.

I'll take it one further and say you're more likely to see Pinnock (or maybe even Thomas) in a mop up role than Sproles too.

 

[TheFanatic]

I think if Hester was the guy to mop up late he would've started last night.

Think about what you're saying here a little bit. It doesn't make sense.What you saw last night is pretty much exactly how things would go down if LaDainian missed time. Hester would still get 1st and 2nd crack at any goal line carries. The only thing we didn't see was how the Chargers will handle the offense when they're closing out a game with a big lead. I'm pretty sure in that situation Hester is going to get most of the 1st and 2nd down work, as well as 3rd down work if it's not long yardage.

Last year the guy that got the mop up duty started the 3rd game of the preseason

Michael Turner >>> HesterMichael Turner >>> Sproles

Neither of the guys they have this year had the complete skill set that Turner does. Thus they'll both be used in different situations to replace Turner's skills and production as they both offer a different subset of Turner's skills. I don't know why you can't see that, but it's plain as day to anyone who's paying attention to the Chargers this year.

I would tend to agree with this. I just can't see the love for Hester. The guy that gets mop up duty for the Chargers is the guy 2nd on the depth chart at RB, not FB. Hester isn't the primary FB. He's 2nd string at FB. Why would they use their 2nd string FB for mop up duty? Why wouldn't they want to keep their RB2 in game shape and ready to take over in a moments notice when they pull LT?

 

[Gr00vus]

The guy that gets mop up duty for the Chargers is the guy 2nd on the depth chart at RB, not FB. Hester isn't the primary FB. He's 2nd string at FB. Why would they use their 2nd string FB for mop up duty? Why wouldn't they want to keep their RB2 in game shape and ready to take over in a moments notice when they pull LT?

There's so much wrong here I don't know where to start. There's no such rule as the one you're stating. The guy that gets the mop up duty for the Chargers is the one who can get 3.5 yards a carry running straight into the line into the teeth of a defense that knows the run is coming. That guy right now is Hester. If not him, then Pinnock. If not Pinnock then Thomas. Sproles is the last guy they'd use in that context.I wouldn't get to wrapped up in the printed depth chart. Circumstances are going to dictate who's in the game, not a static depth chart.Sproles will get plenty of touches in the normal flow of the game, both in the regular offense and on returns - I don't think they need to worry about not having Sproles in game shape. Which is why they aren't going to use him to mop up - they need to keep him fresh for his other roles on the team.

 

[Couch Potato]

I don't know why you can't see that, but it's plain as day to anyone who's paying attention to the Chargers this year.

Gr00vus, please enjoy your debate with TheFanatic. Frustrating isn't it? LOL. While TheFanatic and I are again on good terms via email, at FBG not so much. You'll notice in post #160 he drags up an exchange of ours from 4 months ago and chooses to use 9 preseason carries from the other night to "prove" Hester sucks, and he still doesn't believe that Hester's role is the role GM Smith said he was drafted to have. Good luck convincing my friend TheFanatic of anything. I no longer am willing to go there, despite him trying to pull me in with post #160.

 

[littletank]

I think if Hester was the guy to mop up late he would've started last night.

Think about what you're saying here a little bit. It doesn't make sense.What you saw last night is pretty much exactly how things would go down if LaDainian missed time. Hester would still get 1st and 2nd crack at any goal line carries. The only thing we didn't see was how the Chargers will handle the offense when they're closing out a game with a big lead. I'm pretty sure in that situation Hester is going to get most of the 1st and 2nd down work, as well as 3rd down work if it's not long yardage.

Last year the guy that got the mop up duty started the 3rd game of the preseason

mop up role != starting 3rd game of preseasonMichael Turner >>> Hester

Michael Turner >>> Sproles

Neither of the guys they have this year had the complete skill set that Turner does. Thus they'll both be used in different situations to replace Turner's skills and production as they both offer a different subset of Turner's skills. I don't know why you can't see that, but it's plain as day to anyone who's paying attention to the Chargers this year.

I'll take it one further and say you're more likely to see Pinnock (or maybe even Thomas) in a mop up role than Sproles too.

This makes me laugh.Everytime Sproles gets the ball it's a chance to go to the house. The guy has proven time and time again that he deserves to be a starter some where.

 

[Despyzer]

I would tend to agree with this. I just can't see the love for Hester. The guy that gets mop up duty for the Chargers is the guy 2nd on the depth chart at RB, not FB. Hester isn't the primary FB. He's 2nd string at FB. Why would they use their 2nd string FB for mop up duty? Why wouldn't they want to keep their RB2 in game shape and ready to take over in a moments notice when they pull LT?

I think you might be getting caught up a little bit with labels. From all I have read, the Chargers don't think of Hester as XX2 or 3 of anything. They think of him as a multi-purpose offensive weapon that can be used as an H-back, fullback, tailback, or slot receiver whenever necessary. Sproles will have a much more limited role as far as the offense is concerned. Their running styles will be considered at any point in the game - Sproles when they need a shift and elusive runner, Hester when they need to pound it in or wear down the D. Sproles might get more carries, and maybe even more touches, but it won't be because he is the designated #2 guy and Hester is somewhere behind him on the depth chart.

 

[Gr00vus]

This makes me laugh.Everytime Sproles gets the ball it's a chance to go to the house. The guy has proven time and time again that he deserves to be a starter some where.

This may shock and disturb you, but sometimes in real football, the goal isn't necessarily to score as quickly as possible - sometimes you even want to take as long as possible to score, sometimes you may not even want to score at all (see Westbrook, Brian) if the game circumstances dictate such. In those situations you want to use the guy who fits the situation best. In a run out the clock from ahead situation, Hester fits better than Sproles.If LaDainian went down, Sproles would start - but he wouldn't have anywhere near the split LaDainian gets, and it'd be pretty close to 50/50 or 60/40 with Hester because they bring very different things to the game.

 

[TheFanatic]

This makes me laugh.

Everytime Sproles gets the ball it's a chance to go to the house. The guy has proven time and time again that he deserves to be a starter some where.

This may shock and disturb you, but sometimes in real football, the goal isn't necessarily to score as quickly as possible - sometimes you even want to take as long as possible to score, sometimes you may not even want to score at all (see Westbrook, Brian) if the game circumstances dictate such. In those situations you want to use the guy who fits the situation best. In a run out the clock from ahead situation, Hester fits better than Sproles.If LaDainian went down, Sproles would start - but he wouldn't have anywhere near the split LaDainian gets, and it'd be pretty close to 50/50 or 60/40 with Hester because they bring very different things to the game.

How many times have you seen a guy lay down at the 1 like Westbrook did? I've seen it once in my life. That time.If you are holding onto a slim lead and trying to grind out the clock and the other team allows you to score you score. In a very small subset of circumstances does one not score. So to criticize a guy for having home run ability is just ludicrous.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Third preseason game. No LT. Bang up job by AJ's guy with those 21 yards on 9 carries.

Not a great performance to be sure, but I don't think anything's changed from the Chargers' perspective. Hester and Sproles will both get used in certain situations. If LaDainian went down they'd share touches pretty evenly. With LaDainian around they'll still both get a few touches in the regular flow of the game, but Hester will be the mop up man like Turner was last year.

I wouldn't get too high or too low on either one right now.

What makes you say that? So far he has been used as a FB and sometimes as a short yardage back and in that respect, Sproles did better in short yardage plays....

Hester hasn't been used as a fullback at all this preseason except for about two plays against the Cowboys. And he wasn't very impressive on those plays. He's a halfback. And he's averaged about 5 yards a carry this preseason on non-goal line plunges.Neither Sproles nor Hester have much fantasy value as long as LT is healthy. If LT is hurt, both would get playing time, but I'd rather have Hester if I had to pick.

 

[TheFanatic]

I don't know why you can't see that, but it's plain as day to anyone who's paying attention to the Chargers this year.

Gr00vus, please enjoy your debate with TheFanatic. Frustrating isn't it? LOL. While TheFanatic and I are again on good terms via email, at FBG not so much. You'll notice in post #160 he drags up an exchange of ours from 4 months ago and chooses to use 9 preseason carries from the other night to "prove" Hester sucks, and he still doesn't believe that Hester's role is the role GM Smith said he was drafted to have. Good luck convincing my friend TheFanatic of anything. I no longer am willing to go there, despite him trying to pull me in with post #160.

Sorry, CP. Couldn't resist. Then again, you taking what the GM said 4 months ago about a guy in my book is less conclusive than seeing how they use the guy in game situations. Gave him lots of carries in the first two games. But in the most important preseason game they went with Sproles. I said it before and I will say it again. Hester's ceiling is spot duty when LT is out and when he comes in to spell Sproles, not split time with Sproles, not do the mop up himself and have Sproles spot him. Coach speak or GM speak back in April notwithstanding....

 

[Gr00vus]

If you are holding onto a slim lead and trying to grind out the clock and the other team allows you to score you score.

I thought it was clear that's not what we're talking about when we're talking about mop up mode. If not, it should be now. Mop up mode is when you've got a two score lead or better in the 4th quarter. Clear?

So to criticize a guy for having home run ability is just ludicrous.

Uh, who did this exactly? I'm not seeing that anywhere. What I do see is people saying it's suboptimal to use a sports car as a bulldozer when you've got a few perfectly good bulldozers handy.Listen, you seem to accept only what you want to hear, which is your prerogative. But I'd think it lessens the utility of reading this board - those of us who follow the Chargers closely are trying to give you a perspective on what's going on with the team, we're not knocking Sproles or anything.

 

[TheFanatic]

If you are holding onto a slim lead and trying to grind out the clock and the other team allows you to score you score.

I thought it was clear that's not what we're talking about when we're talking about mop up mode. If not, it should be now. Mop up mode is when you've got a two score lead or better in the 4th quarter. Clear?

So to criticize a guy for having home run ability is just ludicrous.

Uh, who did this exactly? I'm not seeing that anywhere. What I do see is people saying it's suboptimal to use a sports car as a bulldozer when you've got a few perfectly good bulldozers handy.Listen, you seem to accept only what you want to hear, which is your prerogative. But I'd think it lessens the utility of reading this board - those of us who follow the Chargers closely are trying to give you a perspective on what's going on with the team, we're not knocking Sproles or anything.

Fair enough. I'm just not drinking the Hester Kool Aid just yet. I appreciate the insight, I just see the guy as a tweener and maybe that's my own bias here and, of course, my love for debate, so I guess we can agree to disagree until there is more evidence to support either of our claims here. Gonna be a couple of weeks because this debate will be far from settled in the 4th preseason game or as I like to call it, FFB Hell. I HATE the 4th preseason game. Nothing to learn from it....No point at all...

 

[Gr00vus]

I'm just not drinking the Hester Kool Aid just yet...I just see the guy as a tweener

I definitely wouldn't drink the Hester kool aid, and you might be right about him being a tweener. His preseason overall has been much more positive than negative, and I think he will perform well in the role the Chargers have laid out for him. I don't think he'll ever be a superstar or top 10 back in the NFL.I was just trying to temper your enthusiasm for Sproles a bit.Both of these guys have minimal FF value while LaDainian is playing. If LaDainian went down then both of them could be considered borderline RB2/RB3 types. It's a problem for LaDainian owners because I think you honestly have to have both to handcuff, and even then you'd have to play both to fully replace LaDainian's production, in which case there are better things to do with your RB2 spot. One would probably be a stronger individual start in that case if you have league scoring skewed in the direction of their talents/roles (Sproles in PPR/performance, Hester in TD heavy).

 

[TheFanatic]

I'm just not drinking the Hester Kool Aid just yet...I just see the guy as a tweener

I definitely wouldn't drink the Hester kool aid, and you might be right about him being a tweener. His preseason overall has been much more positive than negative, and I think he will perform well in the role the Chargers have laid out for him. I don't think he'll ever be a superstar or top 10 back in the NFL.I was just trying to temper your enthusiasm for Sproles a bit.Both of these guys have minimal FF value while LaDainian is playing. If LaDainian went down then both of them could be considered borderline RB2/RB3 types. It's a problem for LaDainian owners because I think you honestly have to have both to handcuff, and even then you'd have to play both to fully replace LaDainian's production, in which case there are better things to do with your RB2 spot. One would probably be a stronger individual start in that case if you have league scoring skewed in the direction of their talents/roles (Sproles in PPR/performance, Hester in TD heavy).

That's the thing. I don't think a 5'6" 180 pound back is all that either. Although the Seahawks may disagree right now. I'm just not sold on Hester. Sproles seems to fit the typical RB2 role on the team and see him getting mop up duty to keep him sharp over Hester. I've seen good and bad from Hester. 4.9 YPC vs my Rams. But then again, that's against my Rams!?!?! But not enough for the annointing going on here by posters and 4 months ago by the GM and coach. Maybe some SD beat writer has a stiffy for Hester. Maybe the hype is legit. At this point I just don't see it....That could change in 2 weeks though...

 

[Gr00vus]

I"m just not sold on Hester. Sproles seems to fit the typical RB2 role on the team and see him getting mop up duty to keep him sharp over Hester. I've seen good and bad from Hester. 4.9 YPC vs my Rams. But then again, that's against my Rams!?!?! But not enough for the annointing going on here by posters and 4 months ago by the GM and coach. Maybe some SD beat writer has a stiffy for Hester. Maybe the hype is legit. At this point I just don't see it....That could change in 2 weeks though...

It's not hype for the GM or the coach. They brought Hester in to do a couple of specific jobs and he's going to do them. There's no benefit to wearing Sproles out in mop up duty - none. He has plenty of other stuff to do already, he doesn't need extra work to "keep him sharp". It'd be stupid to risk Sproles by pounding him into the line to close out blow outs, so it's just not going to happen. They wanted a 3 yards and a cloud of dust guy for that - Hester's the perfect fit.

 

[TheFanatic]

So if Hester is the backup, how come no carries in the first game. Sproles and Tolbert got carries to spell LT but Hester got none. Hmmm...So at the end of the game when SD is leading they plan on relying on a guy that so far has not a single carry in the NFL. I'm sure they'll give Hester the ball in Denver to quell the rumors that they would use their RB2 over their RB3/FB2 in mop up duty because the guy in the RB2 role is too much of a wuss to handle a bunch of carries. Not sure why the guy is on the roster if he can't handle carries and in the RB2 role, but that's besides the point I guess....

 

[Despyzer]

Sproles and Tolbert got carries to spell LT but Hester got none.

Tolbert didn't get any carries spelling Tomlinson. He got carries as the primary FB.As far as RB2 or RB3... right now the backup job looks like it belongs to Sproles.What exactly leads you to call Hester a wuss or gave you the impression that he was in line to get a bunch of carries?

 

[TheFanatic]

Sproles and Tolbert got carries to spell LT but Hester got none.

Tolbert didn't get any carries spelling Tomlinson. He got carries as the primary FB.As far as RB2 or RB3... right now the backup job looks like it belongs to Sproles.What exactly leads you to call Hester a wuss or gave you the impression that he was in line to get a bunch of carries?

No, the Hester for RB2 and mop up role think that Sproles can't handle more than a couple carries and that Hester was anointed RB2 back in April when the GM said some nice things about the guy...

 

[TheFanatic]

How come the #2 RB, Hester, didn't get a carry again today?

Some guys need to come back into this thread and eat some crow....

And for the rest of the Shark pool, realize that A) GM/Coach speak in April means nothing. And b) TheFanatic knows things....

 

[TheFanatic]

Bump for the Monday Crowd

 

[Football Jones]

I believe Sproles' PT has been a little bit of a surprise. That said, if LT misses time, I think you would see why they drafted Hester. Sproles is a nice 3rd down back/utility RB, who can be electric at times. He's a guy who can be effective on draws, screens, swing passes, etc. Still, he's about as far from an every-down back as you can get. I actually believe guys like Chris Johnson can succeed (who I really, really like), but Sproles simply doesn't have enough lead in his britches. I don't believe he'd be successful in a lead back role. Hester fits that role much better, IMO.

We may not find out what would happen (at least I hope we don't as an LT owner, LOL), but there's no doubt in my mind Hester would play a significant role if LT misses time. I'm sure we would've seen Hester yesterday if they weren't playing catchup (thus, throwing on nearly every down). Sproles is a good football player, tho.

 

[Football Jones]

BTW, I forgot to make the point that if LT is healthy, neither Sproles or Hester will have much fantasy value. I think that's pretty evident. A lot of people are high on Hester because they feel he'd the main beneficiary if LT went down. Not sure who would be the starter right away, but I believe Hester would eventually be the guy you would want.

 

[TheFanatic]

I"m just not sold on Hester. Sproles seems to fit the typical RB2 role on the team and see him getting mop up duty to keep him sharp over Hester. I've seen good and bad from Hester. 4.9 YPC vs my Rams. But then again, that's against my Rams!?!?! But not enough for the annointing going on here by posters and 4 months ago by the GM and coach.

Maybe some SD beat writer has a stiffy for Hester. Maybe the hype is legit. At this point I just don't see it....That could change in 2 weeks though...

It's not hype for the GM or the coach. They brought Hester in to do a couple of specific jobs and he's going to do them. There's no benefit to wearing Sproles out in mop up duty - none. He has plenty of other stuff to do already, he doesn't need extra work to "keep him sharp". It'd be stupid to risk Sproles by pounding him into the line to close out blow outs, so it's just not going to happen. They wanted a 3 yards and a cloud of dust guy for that - Hester's the perfect fit.

You are correct it seems about the bolded part. He did get 3 yards on his one and only carry:J. Hester 1 3 0 3

But what was it again about the mop up duty in blow outs?

 

[T Bell]

It occurs to me that his emergence may have been prophesied by Nostradamus. Everyone assumes that "Hister" was Hitler, but it may have been Jacob Hester he was talking about.

 

[TheFanatic]

It occurs to me that his emergence may have been prophesied by Nostradamus. Everyone assumes that "Hister" was Hitler, but it may have been Jacob Hester he was talking about.

Excellent reference!?!?!

 

[Gr00vus]

I"m just not sold on Hester. Sproles seems to fit the typical RB2 role on the team and see him getting mop up duty to keep him sharp over Hester. I've seen good and bad from Hester. 4.9 YPC vs my Rams. But then again, that's against my Rams!?!?! But not enough for the annointing going on here by posters and 4 months ago by the GM and coach.

Maybe some SD beat writer has a stiffy for Hester. Maybe the hype is legit. At this point I just don't see it....That could change in 2 weeks though...

It's not hype for the GM or the coach. They brought Hester in to do a couple of specific jobs and he's going to do them. There's no benefit to wearing Sproles out in mop up duty - none. He has plenty of other stuff to do already, he doesn't need extra work to "keep him sharp". It'd be stupid to risk Sproles by pounding him into the line to close out blow outs, so it's just not going to happen. They wanted a 3 yards and a cloud of dust guy for that - Hester's the perfect fit.

You are correct it seems about the bolded part. He did get 3 yards on his one and only carry:J. Hester 1 3 0 3

But what was it again about the mop up duty in blow outs?

They left LaDainian in. I'm not sure why they did, although there are quotes from some of the players saying they didn't feel like they had put the game away. Regardless, it wasn't Sproles in there either, so I don't know what point you're trying to make here. Seems like you're kinda desperate for attention.

 

[TheFanatic]

I"m just not sold on Hester. Sproles seems to fit the typical RB2 role on the team and see him getting mop up duty to keep him sharp over Hester. I've seen good and bad from Hester. 4.9 YPC vs my Rams. But then again, that's against my Rams!?!?! But not enough for the annointing going on here by posters and 4 months ago by the GM and coach.

Maybe some SD beat writer has a stiffy for Hester. Maybe the hype is legit. At this point I just don't see it....That could change in 2 weeks though...

It's not hype for the GM or the coach. They brought Hester in to do a couple of specific jobs and he's going to do them. There's no benefit to wearing Sproles out in mop up duty - none. He has plenty of other stuff to do already, he doesn't need extra work to "keep him sharp". It'd be stupid to risk Sproles by pounding him into the line to close out blow outs, so it's just not going to happen. They wanted a 3 yards and a cloud of dust guy for that - Hester's the perfect fit.

You are correct it seems about the bolded part. He did get 3 yards on his one and only carry:J. Hester 1 3 0 3

But what was it again about the mop up duty in blow outs?

They left LaDainian in. I'm not sure why they did, although there are quotes from some of the players saying they didn't feel like they had put the game away. Regardless, it wasn't Sproles in there either, so I don't know what point you're trying to make here. Seems like you're kinda desperate for attention.

Blow out game. up 24 at the half, and Sproles got 6 targets and/or touches in the second half. Your guy rushed the ball once, I believe in the 1st half, not entirely sure on that. So, I guess when it's garbage time AND LT is out they are going to bring in the guy with one career carry in the NFL rather than their backup RB because the GM said some nice things about the guy in April? Makes sense.....

 

[Gr00vus]

Blow out game. up 24 at the half, and Sproles got 6 targets and/or touches in the second half. Your guy rushed the ball once, I believe in the 1st half, not entirely sure on that. So, I guess when it's garbage time AND LT is out they are going to bring in the guy with one career carry in the NFL rather than their backup RB because the GM said some nice things about the guy in April? Makes sense.....

My guy? What does that mean? I'm a Charger fan, I don't have any FF investment in any Charger running back - I have none of them on any roster.Until such time as the Chargers actually do use a sub to run out the clock we can't really declare anything definitive about how our takes on that situation have panned out.So far things have played out exactly as I expected with these guys.

 

[TheFanatic]

Blow out game. up 24 at the half, and Sproles got 6 targets and/or touches in the second half. Your guy rushed the ball once, I believe in the 1st half, not entirely sure on that. So, I guess when it's garbage time AND LT is out they are going to bring in the guy with one career carry in the NFL rather than their backup RB because the GM said some nice things about the guy in April? Makes sense.....

My guy? What does that mean? I'm a Charger fan, I don't have any FF investment in any Charger running back - I have none of them on any roster.Until such time as the Chargers actually do use a sub to run out the clock we can't really declare anything definitive about how our takes on that situation have panned out.So far things have played out exactly as I expected with these guys.

Fine by me...

 

[TLEF316]

very similar to Adam Archuletta.

 

[T Bell]

I"m just not sold on Hester. Sproles seems to fit the typical RB2 role on the team and see him getting mop up duty to keep him sharp over Hester. I've seen good and bad from Hester. 4.9 YPC vs my Rams. But then again, that's against my Rams!?!?! But not enough for the annointing going on here by posters and 4 months ago by the GM and coach.

Maybe some SD beat writer has a stiffy for Hester. Maybe the hype is legit. At this point I just don't see it....That could change in 2 weeks though...

It's not hype for the GM or the coach. They brought Hester in to do a couple of specific jobs and he's going to do them. There's no benefit to wearing Sproles out in mop up duty - none. He has plenty of other stuff to do already, he doesn't need extra work to "keep him sharp". It'd be stupid to risk Sproles by pounding him into the line to close out blow outs, so it's just not going to happen. They wanted a 3 yards and a cloud of dust guy for that - Hester's the perfect fit.

You are correct it seems about the bolded part. He did get 3 yards on his one and only carry:J. Hester 1 3 0 3

But what was it again about the mop up duty in blow outs?

They left LaDainian in. I'm not sure why they did, although there are quotes from some of the players saying they didn't feel like they had put the game away. Regardless, it wasn't Sproles in there either, so I don't know what point you're trying to make here. Seems like you're kinda desperate for attention.

Blow out game. up 24 at the half, and Sproles got 6 targets and/or touches in the second half. Your guy rushed the ball once, I believe in the 1st half, not entirely sure on that. So, I guess when it's garbage time AND LT is out they are going to bring in the guy with one career carry in the NFL rather than their backup RB because the GM said some nice things about the guy in April? Makes sense.....

I am an LT owner and it kind of blew my mind that they kept him in the game in the second half given that he's recovering from a foot injury. That was puzzling.

 

[Otis]

Blow out game. up 24 at the half, and Sproles got 6 targets and/or touches in the second half. Your guy rushed the ball once, I believe in the 1st half, not entirely sure on that. So, I guess when it's garbage time AND LT is out they are going to bring in the guy with one career carry in the NFL rather than their backup RB because the GM said some nice things about the guy in April? Makes sense.....

My guy? What does that mean? I'm a Charger fan, I don't have any FF investment in any Charger running back - I have none of them on any roster.Until such time as the Chargers actually do use a sub to run out the clock we can't really declare anything definitive about how our takes on that situation have panned out.So far things have played out exactly as I expected with these guys.

Fanatic could be one of the bottom 3 shark poolers period.