Javon Walker or Marques Colston (1 Viewer)

[Pipes]

Michael Clayton down?Take Walker.

Again WTF does Michael Clayton have to do with Marques Colston?I think I'm going to start comparing Colston to Randy Moss...it makes about as much sense.

Hes saying that sometimes rookie WRs play over their head and are overrated the next year. Sure, sometimes they don't turn out like that, but take your pick. Either way, its not a bad point.

I'm not saying Colston IS or WILL be the next Michael Clayton. I'm simply trying to remind and caution people about going nuts over a young guy because he had one huge year. Saying Colston = M. Clayton would be unreasonable; but no more so than ignoring the possible similarities all togeher.

True but why not compare him to Moss or Boldin? Rookies who had great year's and continued to excel. With the Saints offense as dynamic as it is I just don't see Colston falling flat on his face like Clayton did.

 

[Driver]

I think from what we know at this point, I would feel safer going with Walker and his proven track record versus Colston and his 1 year. Now, I am not saying Colston is going to turn into M. Clayton but even if Colston ends up putting up more fantasy points than Walker over the next while you are not SOL as you know what you are going to get out of Walker. Walker had a solid season last year playing with 2 different QB's in a brand new system having to over take the WR1. Therefore I know what I will get with Walker and even if may end up being less than Colston I will take the know versus the more unknown.The other side of it is taking Colston and he ends up going into a sophmore slump and then ends up fading ala Clayton. I tend to side with the lesser risk guy and in this case it is Walker.

I agree with this argument. You can go down a list of characteristics and evaluate each player. Colston has age, QB and potential (possibly higher upside) in his favor. Walker has a demonstrated track record and doesn't have to worry about a sophomore slump. I'd say they were equal in motivation and injury risk. Both are very talented and have very good team situations with great opportunity, IMO. I voted Walker, too (as the lesser risk guy) -- but I would have voted "Basically equal for dynasty ppr" if that had been an option.

 

[Chunky Soup]

What I don't understand is as soon as anyone mentions Colston they bring up M. Clayton. WHY? I do not understand WHY? Why not Boldin?To be honest Colston does not compare to EITHER WR. Last I checked because it happens to Player A it does not mean Players B through Z will suffer the same fate. Each player is unique. Looking at the situation Colston is in I would see him as being a very good WR because he has a good QB and a team that likes to throw. Now if he was in Cle he'd be the same player he is now but the numbers won't be there because of the supporting cast.Now back onto the topic, I voted Colston because I know what I'm getting from Walker. He's pretty much "reached his peak". He'll be around this years numbers (top 8-15) for possibly the next 4-7 years than start seeing the decline. Now Colston COULD be the next SUPER WR that will be a top 5 WR for 7-9 years or he could turn into a turd. I like his chances of being better than Walker in the long term or at least match him ranking wise; but for a longer period of time because of age.

Dude. (1) We're not saying Colston = anyone. Just saying hold off before you claim hes a saint (yes). There are examples of both sides, so we know you need more than 1 season to really prove yourself.(2) Walker hit his limit? Come on. Look at what he went through this season:--first after a broken leg--On a new team--With 2 QBs during the season, including a rookie--unstable running attackYou are kidding youself if you think hes not going up this year. You said age should affect his ranking while hes only 28. I'd say he has at least 3-5 prime years left in him. In dynasty, there is absolutely no reason to look beyond. Hes with a QB with great armstrength and proved he could get the ball to Walker. The system also has made Plummer even look good and notoriously features their #1 WR.Walker is almost a lock to improve, whereas the jury is still out on Colston.

 

[Daisuke Matsuzaka]

Michael Clayton down?Take Walker.

Again WTF does Michael Clayton have to do with Marques Colston?I think I'm going to start comparing Colston to Randy Moss...it makes about as much sense.

Hes saying that sometimes rookie WRs play over their head and are overrated the next year. Sure, sometimes they don't turn out like that, but take your pick. Either way, its not a bad point.

I'm not saying Colston IS or WILL be the next Michael Clayton. I'm simply trying to remind and caution people about going nuts over a young guy because he had one huge year. Saying Colston = M. Clayton would be unreasonable; but no more so than ignoring the possible similarities all togeher.

True but why not compare him to Moss or Boldin? Rookies who had great year's and continued to excel. With the Saints offense as dynamic as it is I just don't see Colston falling flat on his face like Clayton did.

Because I'm trying to temper the high level of Colston-man-love going on in this poll. Not the other way around.

 

[Fodasme69]

What I don't understand is as soon as anyone mentions Colston they bring up M. Clayton. WHY? I do not understand WHY? Why not Boldin?To be honest Colston does not compare to EITHER WR. Last I checked because it happens to Player A it does not mean Players B through Z will suffer the same fate. Each player is unique. Looking at the situation Colston is in I would see him as being a very good WR because he has a good QB and a team that likes to throw. Now if he was in Cle he'd be the same player he is now but the numbers won't be there because of the supporting cast.Now back onto the topic, I voted Colston because I know what I'm getting from Walker. He's pretty much "reached his peak". He'll be around this years numbers (top 8-15) for possibly the next 4-7 years than start seeing the decline. Now Colston COULD be the next SUPER WR that will be a top 5 WR for 7-9 years or he could turn into a turd. I like his chances of being better than Walker in the long term or at least match him ranking wise; but for a longer period of time because of age.

Dude. (1) We're not saying Colston = anyone. Just saying hold off before you claim hes a saint (yes). There are examples of both sides, so we know you need more than 1 season to really prove yourself.(2) Walker hit his limit? Come on. Look at what he went through this season:--first after a broken leg--On a new team--With 2 QBs during the season, including a rookie--unstable running attackYou are kidding youself if you think hes not going up this year. You said age should affect his ranking while hes only 28. I'd say he has at least 3-5 prime years left in him. In dynasty, there is absolutely no reason to look beyond. Hes with a QB with great armstrength and proved he could get the ball to Walker. The system also has made Plummer even look good and notoriously features their #1 WR.Walker is almost a lock to improve, whereas the jury is still out on Colston.

I agree that we need more than 1 season I'm not arguing that point. I just believe we've seen what we are going to see out of Walker (give or take 1000-1200 yards and 7-11 TD's). Great numbers. Number 1 WR type numbers on ANY fantasy team for the next 4-5 years. I just don't see Walker as being a top DOG at WR. Colston has the potential to. He put up Walker numbers in 13 games this year. Now if he plays at 85-90% of last years rate but plays 16 games he'll put up Walker type numbers and is a few years younger. All we can do is wait and see. For me I'd take the "risk" and take Colston. JMHO

 

[TheFanatic]

Hes with a QB with great armstrength and proved he could get the ball to Walker. The system also has made Plummer even look good and notoriously features their #1 WR.

I would go back and look at the stats last year when Cutler was in there. Cutler did not prove that he could get the ball to Walker. Quite the opposite. Walker's numbers took a serious drop when Cutler came in. It's understandable being a rookie QB. But doesn't Cutler also risk having a Soph Slump? 'm guessing that Walker and Cutler are going to be taking a ton of reps together in the offseason, but Cutler runs the same risk that Colston does of having a Soph Slump. I tend to notice a pattern with brees. He throws to two targets. His primary receiving threat and his RB. He did that in SD and he seems to be continuing that in NO. Right now it's a pattern. But another year of that and we have a solid trend.

 

[identikit]

Just a general comment:

'sophomore slump' is really a meaningless phrase.

So if a player's 3rd year is really bad compared to his first 2 years, is it a junior slump?

Maybe the 7 year itch is appropriate, too? Or the 3rd time is the charm?

People use the phrase as if it's a provable condition.

Every time a player has a poor 2nd season (when compared to his first), everyone says 'sophomore slump', reinforcing its so-called realness.

It's just about reached urban legend status.

The phrase is lame.

Id

 

[baronson]

brees > the new plummer.

plus, colston is flat out nasty, and has never been seriously hurt.

 

[cstu]

Knew it was a matter of time...

 

[kensat30]

I think Walker is the more talented player and it's not even very close. But for fantasy purposes, you almost have to choose Colston. Brees/Bush/Colston look to be a dynamic force in the NFL for a long time. That is something you just don't bet against IMO. Walker has a lot more uncertainty around himself in the next few years in Denver.

I probably still go with Walker though. Freakish talent. He was less than a year removed from an ACL last year and you still saw him dominating at times with washedup Plummer and rookie Cutler.

 

[cstu]

Colston by the way, but either one is better than a RB coming off a serious injury like KJ is and going into RBBC.

 

[wannabee]

Colston by the way, but either one is better than a RB coming off a serious injury like KJ is and going into RBBC.

How did I get dragged into this again? BTW, I would do that deal again today.

 

[TheFanatic]

Colston by the way, but either one is better than a RB coming off a serious injury like KJ is and going into RBBC.

How did I get dragged into this again? BTW, I would do that deal again today.

As would I. Love KJ, but I have depth at RB and needed a WR. Even if KJ were ready to go week 1 and they didn't trade for Bell I probably make this trade. I had 1 WR all season (TO). Being able to start 4 RB's was nice but I need help at WR. Particularly if TO pulls a TO.....

 

[wannabee]

Colston by the way, but either one is better than a RB coming off a serious injury like KJ is and going into RBBC.

How did I get dragged into this again? BTW, I would do that deal again today.

As would I. Love KJ, but I have depth at RB and needed a WR. Even if KJ were ready to go week 1 and they didn't trade for Bell I probably make this trade. I had 1 WR all season (TO). Being able to start 4 RB's was nice but I need help at WR. Particularly if TO pulls a TO.....

I hear you. I think it is a win/win for both of us.

 

[Routilla]

Colston for sure.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

What I don't understand is as soon as anyone mentions Colston they bring up M. Clayton. WHY? I do not understand WHY? Why not Boldin?To be honest Colston does not compare to EITHER WR. Last I checked because it happens to Player A it does not mean Players B through Z will suffer the same fate. Each player is unique. Looking at the situation Colston is in I would see him as being a very good WR because he has a good QB and a team that likes to throw. Now if he was in Cle he'd be the same player he is now but the numbers won't be there because of the supporting cast.Now back onto the topic, I voted Colston because I know what I'm getting from Walker. He's pretty much "reached his peak". He'll be around this years numbers (top 8-15) for possibly the next 4-7 years than start seeing the decline. Now Colston COULD be the next SUPER WR that will be a top 5 WR for 7-9 years or he could turn into a turd. I like his chances of being better than Walker in the long term or at least match him ranking wise; but for a longer period of time because of age.

Dude. (1) We're not saying Colston = anyone. Just saying hold off before you claim hes a saint (yes). There are examples of both sides, so we know you need more than 1 season to really prove yourself.(2) Walker hit his limit? Come on. Look at what he went through this season:--first after a broken leg--On a new team--With 2 QBs during the season, including a rookie--unstable running attackYou are kidding youself if you think hes not going up this year. You said age should affect his ranking while hes only 28. I'd say he has at least 3-5 prime years left in him. In dynasty, there is absolutely no reason to look beyond. Hes with a QB with great armstrength and proved he could get the ball to Walker. The system also has made Plummer even look good and notoriously features their #1 WR.Walker is almost a lock to improve, whereas the jury is still out on Colston.

I agree that we need more than 1 season I'm not arguing that point. I just believe we've seen what we are going to see out of Walker (give or take 1000-1200 yards and 7-11 TD's). Great numbers. Number 1 WR type numbers on ANY fantasy team for the next 4-5 years. I just don't see Walker as being a top DOG at WR. Colston has the potential to. He put up Walker numbers in 13 games this year. Now if he plays at 85-90% of last years rate but plays 16 games he'll put up Walker type numbers and is a few years younger. All we can do is wait and see. For me I'd take the "risk" and take Colston. JMHO

Walker is and has been a top dog only 3 years removed. He lit it up in Green Bay and finished as the number 1 or 2 fantasy WR in my league 3 years ago. Most of us would agree that he would have repeated that performance in Green Bay the following year but tore his ACL in the first game of last season.This season he came back from a torn ACL and proved he is still elite and will put up elite numbers for the next while. Shanny will use this guy a ton this year. I don't think Walker has hit any sort of ceiling. In fact, he could easily be a top 5 guy next year and it wouldn't surprise anyone. I think Colston repeating his fantasy success of last season could be more surprising then Walker finishing top 5.I still see way more question marks coming out of Colston's corner. This does not mean that I don't think Colston will have a good year. I think Colston will have another solid season, but I still would perfer Walker and actually think he has more upside than Colston.

 

[dickey moe]

Colston is younger and hasn't torn up his knee.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

Colston is younger and hasn't torn up his knee.

This is irrelevant as Walker came back last season and looked as strong as pre-acl injury. 28 is not old for a WR. Age should not come into play as Walker is in his prime for the next 3-5 years which is what you should be looking for in dynasty anyways.

 

[Sidewinder]

...

I think Colston repeating his fantasy success of last season could be more surprising then Walker finishing top 5.

...

Interesting conjecture.Among other things, Colston will have an entire off-season with Brees (who didn't even start throwing until June last year), and the Saints have signed a good receiving TE (provided he can stay healthy) in Eric Johnson, who will open things up some on the outside. Colston was 70-1038-8 in 12 games, what are the negatives that would prevent him from doing so over 16?

So which three of the following does Walker knock out of the top 5: Steve Smith, CJ, Holt, T.O., Harrison, Wayne, Roy Williams?

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

...

I think Colston repeating his fantasy success of last season could be more surprising then Walker finishing top 5.

...

Interesting conjecture.Among other things, Colston will have an entire off-season with Brees (who didn't even start throwing until June last year), and the Saints have signed a good receiving TE (provided he can stay healthy) in Eric Johnson, who will open things up some on the outside. Colston was 70-1038-8 in 12 games, what are the negatives that would prevent him from doing so over 16?

So which three of the following does Walker knock out of the top 5: Steve Smith, CJ, Holt, T.O., Harrison, Wayne, Roy Williams?

For the first part, I am not down on Colston at all. I feel that he will be solid next season, but as stated before, feel that he has more question marks than Walker (even if the question marks may be small, he still has the bigger question mark of uncertainty). I like the security of knowing what I will get with high picks and at this point Walker is less risk than Colston because of proven track records. 1 year is not a proven track record. As previously stated I see it as 2 options. Option A) taking Walker over Colston may be the wrong move if Colston continues to produce like last season but you are not SOL by taking Walker as he will still be in the top 10 range for WR's. Option B) Of taking Colston over Walker and Colston falling off is more freightining to me.

For the second part I see it this way.

These 3 guys are cemented into the 1st teir for me, but the next teir of guys could go anyway.

1) S. Smith

2) Holt

3) CJ

I see Walker fitting into that 2nd teir with the Harrisions, Waynes, T.O.'s, Fitz, and Boldin's of the fantasy world.

Colston would then fall into the teir after these guys. The difference of jumping up into the next teir with these guys for Colston would be having success again this season. Until then he will stay a teir away for me.

 

[cstu]

Colston by the way, but either one is better than a RB coming off a serious injury like KJ is and going into RBBC.

How did I get dragged into this again? BTW, I would do that deal again today.

As would I. Love KJ, but I have depth at RB and needed a WR. Even if KJ were ready to go week 1 and they didn't trade for Bell I probably make this trade. I had 1 WR all season (TO). Being able to start 4 RB's was nice but I need help at WR. Particularly if TO pulls a TO.....

I hear you. I think it is a win/win for both of us.

I like KJ but I don't think he'll put up big numbers this year and would rather have a guy I know that will help me win now. I agree that it's win/win.

 

[SSOG]

True but why not compare him to Moss or Boldin? Rookies who had great year's and continued to excel. With the Saints offense as dynamic as it is I just don't see Colston falling flat on his face like Clayton did.

The thing is, Colston could very well be the next Anquan Boldin, and it still might not make him as good as Javon Walker. Boldin finished last year as the 17th ranked WR in the league. Walker was 9th. Even if Colston continues to play at a high level, there is no real reason to believe that that high level will be significantly better than Walker's high level.In other words... Walker is more likely to be an elite WR talent over the next 3 years than Colston, and even if Colston *IS* an elite WR talent over the next 3 years, there's nothing to say that he's more elite of a talent than Walker.Edit: For all the talk about Walker's "ceiling", there's not much talk about what Walker did from the end of 2003 through 2004 (17 TDs in 22 games and a 2nd place fantasy finish). We've all seen what Walker's "ceiling" really is, and it's every bit as elite as Colston could hope to be.

 

[Fodasme69]

True but why not compare him to Moss or Boldin? Rookies who had great year's and continued to excel. With the Saints offense as dynamic as it is I just don't see Colston falling flat on his face like Clayton did.

The thing is, Colston could very well be the next Anquan Boldin, and it still might not make him as good as Javon Walker. Boldin finished last year as the 17th ranked WR in the league. Walker was 9th. Even if Colston continues to play at a high level, there is no real reason to believe that that high level will be significantly better than Walker's high level.In other words... Walker is more likely to be an elite WR talent over the next 3 years than Colston, and even if Colston *IS* an elite WR talent over the next 3 years, there's nothing to say that he's more elite of a talent than Walker.Edit: For all the talk about Walker's "ceiling", there's not much talk about what Walker did from the end of 2003 through 2004 (17 TDs in 22 games and a 2nd place fantasy finish). We've all seen what Walker's "ceiling" really is, and it's every bit as elite as Colston could hope to be.

But Walker did that with Farve at QB and Driver on the other side of him. Walker now has Brandon Marshall, Stokley, and Rod smith there with a 2nd year QB who MAY do well but could also be Tim Couch. Walker's situation is not all roses either. Like I said before Colston is in a better situation (Brees, Weaker division, high scoring O) TODAY. But if Walker was in NO and Colston was in Den we all could be laughing at this poll cause Walker would be the better option (arguably a more polished WR) but right now and for the next 2-3 years I like Colston's situation better than Walker's so I'm willing to take this "gamble".

 

[JohnnyU]

True but why not compare him to Moss or Boldin? Rookies who had great year's and continued to excel. With the Saints offense as dynamic as it is I just don't see Colston falling flat on his face like Clayton did.

The thing is, Colston could very well be the next Anquan Boldin, and it still might not make him as good as Javon Walker. Boldin finished last year as the 17th ranked WR in the league. Walker was 9th. Even if Colston continues to play at a high level, there is no real reason to believe that that high level will be significantly better than Walker's high level.In other words... Walker is more likely to be an elite WR talent over the next 3 years than Colston, and even if Colston *IS* an elite WR talent over the next 3 years, there's nothing to say that he's more elite of a talent than Walker.Edit: For all the talk about Walker's "ceiling", there's not much talk about what Walker did from the end of 2003 through 2004 (17 TDs in 22 games and a 2nd place fantasy finish). We've all seen what Walker's "ceiling" really is, and it's every bit as elite as Colston could hope to be.

Very

 

[H.K.]

Like I said before Colston is in a better situation (Brees, Weaker division, high scoring O) TODAY. But if Walker was in NO and Colston was in Den we all could be laughing at this poll cause Walker would be the better option (arguably a more polished WR) but right now and for the next 2-3 years I like Colston's situation better than Walker's so I'm willing to take this "gamble".

Colston played in 12 full games last year with Brees. He averaged 9.5 targets, 5.8 receptions and 86.5 yards per game.In five games, Walker with Cutler produced 7 targets a game with 3.6 recepts for 46 yards. In fact, Walker's BEST game with Cutler at QB was 5 catches for 84 yards....that's not even as good as what Colston averaged.Colston/Brees would have to get much worse and Walker/Cutler would have to get much better for this one to even be close.Anyone taking the position that Cutler/Walker will improve because they'll have more time to work together must also give the same upside factor to Colston. He has room to improve because he was a rookie, and Brees and the whole NO offense can get better with a full season under their belt, too.

 

[TheFanatic]

Like I said before Colston is in a better situation (Brees, Weaker division, high scoring O) TODAY. But if Walker was in NO and Colston was in Den we all could be laughing at this poll cause Walker would be the better option (arguably a more polished WR) but right now and for the next 2-3 years I like Colston's situation better than Walker's so I'm willing to take this "gamble".

Colston played in 12 full games last year with Brees. He averaged 9.5 targets, 5.8 receptions and 86.5 yards per game.In five games, Walker with Cutler produced 7 targets a game with 3.6 recepts for 46 yards. In fact, Walker's BEST game with Cutler at QB was 5 catches for 84 yards....that's not even as good as what Colston averaged.Colston/Brees would have to get much worse and Walker/Cutler would have to get much better for this one to even be close.Anyone taking the position that Cutler/Walker will improve because they'll have more time to work together must also give the same upside factor to Colston. He has room to improve because he was a rookie, and Brees and the whole NO offense can get better with a full season under their belt, too.

Thanks H.K. I mentioned earlier that Walker's numbers dropped significantly with Cutler but I didn't have the specific numbers.I also mentioned that that, sure, Walker and Cutler are probably joined at the hip this offseason to work on their timing. But with Horn gone, wouldn't Colston and Brees be doing the same thing. This is going to have to be one of those agree to disagree deals. The Walker owners and anyone who got burned by Mike Clayton are going to pick Walker no matter what. And the Brees/Colston believers are going to take Colston.

 

[Pipes]

Like I said before Colston is in a better situation (Brees, Weaker division, high scoring O) TODAY. But if Walker was in NO and Colston was in Den we all could be laughing at this poll cause Walker would be the better option (arguably a more polished WR) but right now and for the next 2-3 years I like Colston's situation better than Walker's so I'm willing to take this "gamble".

Colston played in 12 full games last year with Brees. He averaged 9.5 targets, 5.8 receptions and 86.5 yards per game.In five games, Walker with Cutler produced 7 targets a game with 3.6 recepts for 46 yards. In fact, Walker's BEST game with Cutler at QB was 5 catches for 84 yards....that's not even as good as what Colston averaged.Colston/Brees would have to get much worse and Walker/Cutler would have to get much better for this one to even be close.Anyone taking the position that Cutler/Walker will improve because they'll have more time to work together must also give the same upside factor to Colston. He has room to improve because he was a rookie, and Brees and the whole NO offense can get better with a full season under their belt, too.

 

[Fodasme69]

Like I said before Colston is in a better situation (Brees, Weaker division, high scoring O) TODAY. But if Walker was in NO and Colston was in Den we all could be laughing at this poll cause Walker would be the better option (arguably a more polished WR) but right now and for the next 2-3 years I like Colston's situation better than Walker's so I'm willing to take this "gamble".

Colston played in 12 full games last year with Brees. He averaged 9.5 targets, 5.8 receptions and 86.5 yards per game.In five games, Walker with Cutler produced 7 targets a game with 3.6 recepts for 46 yards. In fact, Walker's BEST game with Cutler at QB was 5 catches for 84 yards....that's not even as good as what Colston averaged.Colston/Brees would have to get much worse and Walker/Cutler would have to get much better for this one to even be close.Anyone taking the position that Cutler/Walker will improve because they'll have more time to work together must also give the same upside factor to Colston. He has room to improve because he was a rookie, and Brees and the whole NO offense can get better with a full season under their belt, too.

 

[kensat30]

Or maybe Colston will be one of those guys who gets nicked up every year like Chris Brown?

Those 12 games that people seem to be highlighting as a positive when pointing to his statline, to me that is his biggest potential drawback. Colston is really tall and lanky, and who knows if he can handle the punishment of the NFL for a full season and stay healthy and productive. Randy Moss is the closest comparison to Colston from a purely physical standpoint for me, and Moss has never been the same after he suffered that one injury back in '04.

After Colston took that shot in week 10 or 11 or whatever, he was a liability for any fantasy team. He came back and played, but he wasn't really the same player that he had been early in the season. Will he be that same player in 2007? IF he gets hurt again, will he be that same player?

Walker has already answered those questions this past year.

 

[H.K.]

Or maybe Colston will be one of those guys who gets nicked up every year like Chris Brown?Those 12 games that people seem to be highlighting as a positive when pointing to his statline, to me that is his biggest potential drawback. Colston is really tall and lanky, and who knows if he can handle the punishment of the NFL for a full season and stay healthy and productive. Randy Moss is the closest comparison to Colston from a purely physical standpoint for me, and Moss has never been the same after he suffered that one injury back in '04. After Colston took that shot in week 10 or 11 or whatever, he was a liability for any fantasy team. He came back and played, but he wasn't really the same player that he had been early in the season. Will he be that same player in 2007? IF he gets hurt again, will he be that same player?Walker has already answered those questions this past year.

As we saw this season, Colston doesn't need to play a whole season to out produce Walker, so its a moot point.It wasn't just this year, either. Walker has been in the league five years. Yet he has had more catches than Colston did in 12 games of his rookie year only one time....and that was with arguably the greatest QB of all time throwing to him and another Pro Bowl WR opposite him in Green Bay to take the pressure off him. Last time I checked, Favre and Driver won't be playing for Denver this season.Also, trying to say Colston's three game injury period (sat week 17 for playoffs) is a bigger health concern than Walker's knee surgery which caused him to miss an entire season is devoid of any logic.eta: For the five games after Colston got hurt, he averaged 5.2 recepts for 57.4 yards. Still better than a healthy Walker with Cutler at QB.

 

[TheFanatic]

Or maybe Colston will be one of those guys who gets nicked up every year like Chris Brown?Those 12 games that people seem to be highlighting as a positive when pointing to his statline, to me that is his biggest potential drawback. Colston is really tall and lanky, and who knows if he can handle the punishment of the NFL for a full season and stay healthy and productive. Randy Moss is the closest comparison to Colston from a purely physical standpoint for me, and Moss has never been the same after he suffered that one injury back in '04. After Colston took that shot in week 10 or 11 or whatever, he was a liability for any fantasy team. He came back and played, but he wasn't really the same player that he had been early in the season. Will he be that same player in 2007? IF he gets hurt again, will he be that same player?Walker has already answered those questions this past year.

That's probably the best argument I've heard against Colston. Comparing him to Clayton was just not compelling but this is. I wonder if they are bulking him up in the offseason. I remember every year how they would say Pinkston is bulking up in the offseason. He would come into camp up about 4 pounds and lose it the first two days of camp....

 

[Tick]

Same tier.

CJohnson, SSmith, Holt, Fitz... then a bunch of guys that are roughly equivalent. That second tier is relatively huge, and includes both of these guys.

I traded Colston for Lee Evans this offseason in one league.

In another, I traded Boldin for Lee Evans, but could have traded him for Walker instead. I chose the Evans trade, but all of these guys are in that second tier.

 

[greyone]

I think from what we know at this point, I would feel safer going with Walker and his proven track record versus Colston and his 1 year. Now, I am not saying Colston is going to turn into M. Clayton but even if Colston ends up putting up more fantasy points than Walker over the next while you are not SOL as you know what you are going to get out of Walker. Walker had a solid season last year playing with 2 different QB's in a brand new system having to over take the WR1. Therefore I know what I will get with Walker and even if may end up being less than Colston I will take the know versus the more unknown.The other side of it is taking Colston and he ends up going into a sophmore slump and then ends up fading ala Clayton. I tend to side with the lesser risk guy and in this case it is Walker.

I agree with this argument. You can go down a list of characteristics and evaluate each player. Colston has age, QB and potential (possibly higher upside) in his favor. Walker has a demonstrated track record and doesn't have to worry about a sophomore slump. I'd say they were equal in motivation and injury risk. Both are very talented and have very good team situations with great opportunity, IMO. I voted Walker, too (as the lesser risk guy) -- but I would have voted "Basically equal for dynasty ppr" if that had been an option.

Walker may be the safer pick, and i am a proponent for safer stategy on all my fantasy teams, but it also depends on the structure of your team. With other more stable players at rb or qb...taking a semi-gamble on Colston is a great choice. It clearly seems like the OP can afford Colston's weak resume compared to Walker and his so called "safer pick/producer" tag from this thread.

 

[Pipes]

Or maybe Colston will be one of those guys who gets nicked up every year like Chris Brown?Those 12 games that people seem to be highlighting as a positive when pointing to his statline, to me that is his biggest potential drawback. Colston is really tall and lanky, and who knows if he can handle the punishment of the NFL for a full season and stay healthy and productive. Randy Moss is the closest comparison to Colston from a purely physical standpoint for me, and Moss has never been the same after he suffered that one injury back in '04. After Colston took that shot in week 10 or 11 or whatever, he was a liability for any fantasy team. He came back and played, but he wasn't really the same player that he had been early in the season. Will he be that same player in 2007? IF he gets hurt again, will he be that same player?Walker has already answered those questions this past year.

What shot? Colston had a defender roll up on the back of his leg while he was blocking. Could've happened to anyone.Colston is listed at 6'4" 231 while Walker is 6'3" 209. Which receiver is the lanky one again?For comparative purposes Fitz is 6'3' 226 and Roy is 6'2" 212. I don't see Colston's build as being a whole lot different that these guys.

 

[SSOG]

Or maybe Colston will be one of those guys who gets nicked up every year like Chris Brown?Those 12 games that people seem to be highlighting as a positive when pointing to his statline, to me that is his biggest potential drawback. Colston is really tall and lanky, and who knows if he can handle the punishment of the NFL for a full season and stay healthy and productive. Randy Moss is the closest comparison to Colston from a purely physical standpoint for me, and Moss has never been the same after he suffered that one injury back in '04. After Colston took that shot in week 10 or 11 or whatever, he was a liability for any fantasy team. He came back and played, but he wasn't really the same player that he had been early in the season. Will he be that same player in 2007? IF he gets hurt again, will he be that same player?Walker has already answered those questions this past year.

As we saw this season, Colston doesn't need to play a whole season to out produce Walker, so its a moot point.It wasn't just this year, either. Walker has been in the league five years. Yet he has had more catches than Colston did in 12 games of his rookie year only one time....and that was with arguably the greatest QB of all time throwing to him and another Pro Bowl WR opposite him in Green Bay to take the pressure off him. Last time I checked, Favre and Driver won't be playing for Denver this season.

I always love that "but he had a pro bowl WR on the other side of the field!" line, as if it somehow lessens what he did.Question- do you think having an ELITE secondary target is going to HELP your numbers, or HURT your numbers? I mean, sure, it loosens up coverages... but it also takes away a lot of balls that you otherwise would have gotten. Do you think it's a coincidence that all of Marvin Harrison's best seasons came in years where Reggie Wayne was a non-factor? Or that all of Terrell Owens's best seasons came in years when he was option 1a *AND* 1b? Or that Steve Smith and Muhsin Muhammad both had career years in Carolina once the other guy was out of the picture? Or that Lee Evans had a career year once Eric Moulds left town? Do you think Chris Chambers would start putting up better numbers if he had Lee Evans on his team (and no longer led the league in targets, like he's been doing)?The quality of the QB may be a factor in the numbers a WR puts up... but the quality of the WR on the other side of the field is NOT a factor, or if it is a factor, then it's a negative factor (i.e. the better the WR on the other side of the field, the harder it is to put up insane numbers). The presence of Donald Driver doesn't make Walker's accomplishments in 2004 LESS impressive; if anything, it makes them moreso.As for the QB arguement... who says Favre needs to be playing in Denver for Walker to put up great numbers? Didn't Rod Smith and Ed McCaffrey both go for 100 catches apiece with Brian Griese and Gus Frerotte chucking them the ball? Denver's offensive scheme has proven it can make receivers studs even without a HoF QB in the backfield.

 

[H.K.]

I always love that "but he had a pro bowl WR on the other side of the field!" line, as if it somehow lessens what he did.

Question- do you think having an ELITE secondary target is going to HELP your numbers, or HURT your numbers? I mean, sure, it loosens up coverages... but it also takes away a lot of balls that you otherwise would have gotten. Do you think it's a coincidence that all of Marvin Harrison's best seasons came in years where Reggie Wayne was a non-factor?

Harrison was the #1 WR overall last year in PPR and Wayne was #3. Your assessment and assertion are proven inaccurate by your own example.

Thank you for your support.

 

[lord_helmet]

Without looking up any numbers could the reason the Colts WRs is a bad example, be that no other team completes as many passes as the Manning led offense ?

 

[H.K.]

Without looking up any numbers could the reason the Colts WRs is a bad example, be that no other team completes as many passes as the Manning led offense ?

Just in the last three seasons alone (PPR scoring) there are four WR tandems that have been Top 10 in FF points from the same team:Harrison/Wayne - twiceCJohnson/HoushBoldin/FitzgeraldWalker/DriverLet's not get off track, though. My statement was that Walker had his best personal success with a Pro Bowl QB and a quality WR on the other side to take pressure off him. This is indisputable fact that pertains to him and his current situation, so deflecting discussion to other WR's and their QB's & opposite WR's is irrelevant.Here is something else interesting - In Walker's one great season with GB, he averaged 5.5 receptions and 86 yards per game, that's almost identical to what Colston did last year on a per game average....but still a little shy of the rookie's numbers.So here is the tale of the tape:Colston targets per game with Brees = 9.5, Walker targets with Cutler = 7- Advantage: ColstonColston has performed better on a per game basis than Walker has in his entire career- Advantage: Colston Walker switched QB's and his stats nose-dived. He'll be with the same inexperienced QB next year.- Advantage: ColstonColston will have the same two time Pro-Bowl QB thowing him the ball in 2007. - Advantage: ColstonWalker had surgery on his knee and missed 15 games, Colston hurt his ankle and missed three games but returned to play the same season.- Advantage: ColstonColston has a better QB that throws him the ball more often than Walker's lesser QB, Colston has performed at the highest level of production between the two WR's and Colston has not had the severity of injury Walker has suffered. Colston is also five years younger, this is a dynasty discussion, so that is another benefit for him. Colston in a landslide, folks.

 

[Driver]

Without looking up any numbers could the reason the Colts WRs is a bad example, be that no other team completes as many passes as the Manning led offense ?

Just in the last three seasons alone (PPR scoring) there are four WR tandems that have been Top 10 in FF points from the same team:Harrison/Wayne - twiceCJohnson/HoushBoldin/FitzgeraldWalker/DriverLet's not get off track, though. My statement was that Walker had his best personal success with a Pro Bowl QB and a quality WR on the other side to take pressure off him. This is indisputable fact that pertains to him and his current situation, so deflecting discussion to other WR's and their QB's & opposite WR's is irrelevant.Here is something else interesting - In Walker's one great season with GB, he averaged 5.5 receptions and 86 yards per game, that's almost identical to what Colston did last year on a per game average....but still a little shy of the rookie's numbers.So here is the tale of the tape:Colston targets per game with Brees = 9.5, Walker targets with Cutler = 7- Advantage: ColstonColston has performed better on a per game basis than Walker has in his entire career- Advantage: Colston Walker switched QB's and his stats nose-dived. He'll be with the same inexperienced QB next year.- Advantage: ColstonColston will have the same two time Pro-Bowl QB thowing him the ball in 2007. - Advantage: ColstonWalker had surgery on his knee and missed 15 games, Colston hurt his ankle and missed three games but returned to play the same season.- Advantage: ColstonColston has a better QB that throws him the ball more often than Walker's lesser QB, Colston has performed at the highest level of production between the two WR's and Colston has not had the severity of injury Walker has suffered. Colston is also five years younger, this is a dynasty discussion, so that is another benefit for him. Colston in a landslide, folks.

Impressive argument. So do you have Colston ranked higher than Holt, Wayne, Roy, Evans, Harrison, TO, AJohnson, and Boldin, too? (I assume you don't have him in the top-3.)

 

[TheFanatic]

Without looking up any numbers could the reason the Colts WRs is a bad example, be that no other team completes as many passes as the Manning led offense ?

Just in the last three seasons alone (PPR scoring) there are four WR tandems that have been Top 10 in FF points from the same team:Harrison/Wayne - twiceCJohnson/HoushBoldin/FitzgeraldWalker/DriverLet's not get off track, though. My statement was that Walker had his best personal success with a Pro Bowl QB and a quality WR on the other side to take pressure off him. This is indisputable fact that pertains to him and his current situation, so deflecting discussion to other WR's and their QB's & opposite WR's is irrelevant.Here is something else interesting - In Walker's one great season with GB, he averaged 5.5 receptions and 86 yards per game, that's almost identical to what Colston did last year on a per game average....but still a little shy of the rookie's numbers.So here is the tale of the tape:Colston targets per game with Brees = 9.5, Walker targets with Cutler = 7- Advantage: ColstonColston has performed better on a per game basis than Walker has in his entire career- Advantage: Colston Walker switched QB's and his stats nose-dived. He'll be with the same inexperienced QB next year.- Advantage: ColstonColston will have the same two time Pro-Bowl QB thowing him the ball in 2007. - Advantage: ColstonWalker had surgery on his knee and missed 15 games, Colston hurt his ankle and missed three games but returned to play the same season.- Advantage: ColstonColston has a better QB that throws him the ball more often than Walker's lesser QB, Colston has performed at the highest level of production between the two WR's and Colston has not had the severity of injury Walker has suffered. Colston is also five years younger, this is a dynasty discussion, so that is another benefit for him. Colston in a landslide, folks.

Impressive argument. So do you have Colston ranked higher than Holt, Wayne, Roy, Evans, Harrison, TO, AJohnson, and Boldin, too? (I assume you don't have him in the top-3.)

Way to sidestep the argument posted above. H.K. has mentioned a number of points. You refute none of them.Would it be unheard of for Colston to finish top 3? Not likely but he did start off his career with a bang and if he builds on it, top 5 isn't too far away. The potential is there. He's in a great situation. Realizing that potential is another story tho.

 

[Sidewinder]

.... Colston is really tall and lanky, and who knows if he can handle the punishment of the NFL for a full season and stay healthy and productive. Randy Moss is the closest comparison to Colston from a purely physical standpoint ...

...

That's probably the best argument I've heard against Colston. Comparing him to Clayton was just not compelling but this is.

I wonder if they are bulking him up in the offseason. I remember every year how they would say Pinkston is bulking up in the offseason. He would come into camp up about 4 pounds and lose it the first two days of camp....

Good grief. When I see names like Randy Moss and Todd Pinkston in reference to Colston's size, it makes me wonder if some have even seen Colston. The kid is a big strong receiver who gets most of his looks on short and intermediate throws. Remember, NFL scouts were projecting him as a tight end.

 

[Driver]

Without looking up any numbers could the reason the Colts WRs is a bad example, be that no other team completes as many passes as the Manning led offense ?

Just in the last three seasons alone (PPR scoring) there are four WR tandems that have been Top 10 in FF points from the same team:Harrison/Wayne - twiceCJohnson/HoushBoldin/FitzgeraldWalker/DriverLet's not get off track, though. My statement was that Walker had his best personal success with a Pro Bowl QB and a quality WR on the other side to take pressure off him. This is indisputable fact that pertains to him and his current situation, so deflecting discussion to other WR's and their QB's & opposite WR's is irrelevant.Here is something else interesting - In Walker's one great season with GB, he averaged 5.5 receptions and 86 yards per game, that's almost identical to what Colston did last year on a per game average....but still a little shy of the rookie's numbers.So here is the tale of the tape:Colston targets per game with Brees = 9.5, Walker targets with Cutler = 7- Advantage: ColstonColston has performed better on a per game basis than Walker has in his entire career- Advantage: Colston Walker switched QB's and his stats nose-dived. He'll be with the same inexperienced QB next year.- Advantage: ColstonColston will have the same two time Pro-Bowl QB thowing him the ball in 2007. - Advantage: ColstonWalker had surgery on his knee and missed 15 games, Colston hurt his ankle and missed three games but returned to play the same season.- Advantage: ColstonColston has a better QB that throws him the ball more often than Walker's lesser QB, Colston has performed at the highest level of production between the two WR's and Colston has not had the severity of injury Walker has suffered. Colston is also five years younger, this is a dynasty discussion, so that is another benefit for him. Colston in a landslide, folks.

Impressive argument. So do you have Colston ranked higher than Holt, Wayne, Roy, Evans, Harrison, TO, AJohnson, and Boldin, too? (I assume you don't have him in the top-3.)

Way to sidestep the argument posted above. H.K. has mentioned a number of points. You refute none of them.Would it be unheard of for Colston to finish top 3? Not likely but he did start off his career with a bang and if he builds on it, top 5 isn't too far away. The potential is there. He's in a great situation. Realizing that potential is another story tho.

Sorry about that. I should have mentioned that I gave my views earlier:

I think from what we know at this point, I would feel safer going with Walker and his proven track record versus Colston and his 1 year. Now, I am not saying Colston is going to turn into M. Clayton but even if Colston ends up putting up more fantasy points than Walker over the next while you are not SOL as you know what you are going to get out of Walker. Walker had a solid season last year playing with 2 different QB's in a brand new system having to over take the WR1. Therefore I know what I will get with Walker and even if may end up being less than Colston I will take the know versus the more unknown.The other side of it is taking Colston and he ends up going into a sophmore slump and then ends up fading ala Clayton. I tend to side with the lesser risk guy and in this case it is Walker.

I agree with this argument. You can go down a list of characteristics and evaluate each player. Colston has age, QB and potential (possibly higher upside) in his favor. Walker has a demonstrated track record and doesn't have to worry about a sophomore slump. I'd say they were equal in motivation and injury risk. Both are very talented and have very good team situations with great opportunity, IMO. I voted Walker, too (as the lesser risk guy) -- but I would have voted "Basically equal for dynasty ppr" if that had been an option.

I guess I was wondering where persons who think "Colston in a landslide" would rank him against the other highly-rated WRs. IMO Colston is in a fairly large 3nd tier that includes Walker, Evans, Boldin, Harrison and TO -- with the 1st and 2nd tiers including Fitz, SSmith, CJ, Holt, Wayne, Roy, and AJohnson.

 

[H.K.]

I voted Walker, too (as the lesser risk guy) -- but I would have voted "Basically equal for dynasty ppr" if that had been an option.....I guess I was wondering where persons who think "Colston in a landslide" would rank him against the other highly-rated WRs. IMO Colston is in a fairly large 3nd tier that includes Walker, Evans, Boldin, Harrison and TO -- with the 1st and 2nd tiers including Fitz, SSmith, CJ, Holt, Wayne, Roy, and AJohnson.

Driver,1) Walker is older, smaller, had a serious knee injury, and has a new QB. From a performance perspective, he's had one season in five on a par with Colston's rookie year. Why exactly is Walker the "lesser risk guy"?2) For starters, Harrison has finished 5th, 8th & 1st in PPR scoring the past three years and you put him in tier three with Walker? That alone tells me our rankings would be completely different and get the thread waaaaayyy off track, so I'll just stick with ranking Colston ahead of Walker for dynasty PPR purposes and keep the focal point on the intended discussion.Thanks.

 

[Chunky Soup]

Without looking up any numbers could the reason the Colts WRs is a bad example, be that no other team completes as many passes as the Manning led offense ?

Just in the last three seasons alone (PPR scoring) there are four WR tandems that have been Top 10 in FF points from the same team:Harrison/Wayne - twiceCJohnson/HoushBoldin/FitzgeraldWalker/DriverLet's not get off track, though. My statement was that Walker had his best personal success with a Pro Bowl QB and a quality WR on the other side to take pressure off him. This is indisputable fact that pertains to him and his current situation, so deflecting discussion to other WR's and their QB's & opposite WR's is irrelevant.Here is something else interesting - In Walker's one great season with GB, he averaged 5.5 receptions and 86 yards per game, that's almost identical to what Colston did last year on a per game average....but still a little shy of the rookie's numbers.So here is the tale of the tape:Colston targets per game with Brees = 9.5, Walker targets with Cutler = 7- Advantage: ColstonColston has performed better on a per game basis than Walker has in his entire career- Advantage: Colston Walker switched QB's and his stats nose-dived. He'll be with the same inexperienced QB next year.- Advantage: ColstonColston will have the same two time Pro-Bowl QB thowing him the ball in 2007. - Advantage: ColstonWalker had surgery on his knee and missed 15 games, Colston hurt his ankle and missed three games but returned to play the same season.- Advantage: ColstonColston has a better QB that throws him the ball more often than Walker's lesser QB, Colston has performed at the highest level of production between the two WR's and Colston has not had the severity of injury Walker has suffered. Colston is also five years younger, this is a dynasty discussion, so that is another benefit for him. Colston in a landslide, folks.

Impressive argument. So do you have Colston ranked higher than Holt, Wayne, Roy, Evans, Harrison, TO, AJohnson, and Boldin, too? (I assume you don't have him in the top-3.)

Way to sidestep the argument posted above. H.K. has mentioned a number of points. You refute none of them.

No. His point was rock solid. If you compare Colston to those other WRs with the same qualifiers HK used Colston might be the #1 or #2 receiver. Might even be a "landslide" as HK put it. Colston had a great year, noone can deny that. There are still downsides that were never even considered. Downsides for Colston:-- How about the fact that before his injury he pulled in on average 63% of targets, while after injury he pulled in 41%? You want to say its because of his injury? Well, in the playoffs he pulled in 36%. Good sample size of 27 targets too. To me, theres a lot of risk of teams catching on and playing him well.-- What about Bush being more involved?-- Rumors of new WR coming to town (Darrell Jackson rumors)Upsides for Walker:-- What about DEN rushing game finally being stabilized with a proven runner? Should help their team quite a bit to keep drives going.-- What about a top ranked college gunslinging QB starting a full season? Sure, you said hes not proven. He showed unbelievable improvement from his first game and looked better every week. FWIW, Leinart isn't "proven", but we still have Fitz AND Boldin in stop 5 in most rankings.-- Has broken 1000 yards more than once.-- Ranked in the top 10 twice (including #2 in 2004)-- Has gone an entire season injury free.-- What about the proven system in DEN? Made QBs look great and WR1s look fantastic.To simply ignore other ways to evaluate is laughable. When you "rank" with a very biased selection of questions, of course it will come out in "a landslide".

 

[Chunky Soup]

I voted Walker, too (as the lesser risk guy) -- but I would have voted "Basically equal for dynasty ppr" if that had been an option.....I guess I was wondering where persons who think "Colston in a landslide" would rank him against the other highly-rated WRs. IMO Colston is in a fairly large 3nd tier that includes Walker, Evans, Boldin, Harrison and TO -- with the 1st and 2nd tiers including Fitz, SSmith, CJ, Holt, Wayne, Roy, and AJohnson.

1) Walker is older, smaller, had a serious knee injury, and has a new QB. From a performance perspective, he's had one season in five on a par with Colston's rookie year. Why exactly is Walker the "lesser risk guy"?Thanks.

- And Walker is faster.- Walker looked fantastic on his knee last year. So has Boldin/Gore after their knee surgery.- He had a rookie QB who was considered the next big arm gunslinger. I think its hilarious that you think he'll play the same as his first 5 games in the NFL.- The "one season" that Javon had "on par" was much better. 350 yards and 4 TDs better. Please don't say injury was the reason becuase in every single year Colston has played in the NFL he has been injured. If you say Cutler performance won't change and Javon has risk injury, I think we should assume Colston will be injured every year.

 

[Driver]

I voted Walker, too (as the lesser risk guy) -- but I would have voted "Basically equal for dynasty ppr" if that had been an option.....I guess I was wondering where persons who think "Colston in a landslide" would rank him against the other highly-rated WRs. IMO Colston is in a fairly large 3nd tier that includes Walker, Evans, Boldin, Harrison and TO -- with the 1st and 2nd tiers including Fitz, SSmith, CJ, Holt, Wayne, Roy, and AJohnson.

Driver,1) Walker is older, smaller, had a serious knee injury, and has a new QB. From a performance perspective, he's had one season in five on a par with Colston's rookie year. Why exactly is Walker the "lesser risk guy"?2) For starters, Harrison has finished 5th, 8th & 1st in PPR scoring the past three years and you put him in tier three with Walker? That alone tells me our rankings would be completely different and get the thread waaaaayyy off track, so I'll just stick with ranking Colston ahead of Walker for dynasty PPR purposes and keep the focal point on the intended discussion.Thanks.

I agree that our dynasty rankings are probably very different -- but that's what makes it interesting, I guess. I think you've made a lot of good points (and I agree with some of them).1. Walker is older - Agreed. Walker will be 28.9 at the start of next season, while Colston will be 24.3. I figure that, if uninjured, Walker has 5 solid seasons left. That's plenty for me in dynasty. BTW, Harrison will be 35.0 and TO will be 33.8 next September. I think you can count on both for 2 more solid seasons, but I don't plan for more than 2 which is not enough for me in dynasty without discounting their value -- age is the only reason for my dropping Harrison to the 3rd tier. How many solid seasons do you expect Harrison to have?2. Walker is smaller - Agreed. He's also faster and quicker and runs better routes. But a wash overall IMO -- I think both are very talented.3. Walker had a serious knee injury - Agreed. My assessment based on his performance last year is that this is a very minor or non-factor. I judge their injury risk as equivalent.4. Walker has a new QB - Agreed. I also think his team situation including coach, offensive system, and supporting cast to be equivalent with Colston's situation, and I trust Shanahan's offensive system to maximize Walker's value with Cutler in 2008 if not 2007 (even if it wasn't demonstrated last year).5. "From a performance perspective, he's had one season in five on a par with Colston's rookie year." - Disagree. Colston posted 152 fpts last season (and 222 ppr). Walker posted 126 fpts in 2003 (167 ppr), 210 in 2004 (299 ppr), and 175 (244 ppr) last year. Walker has 162 career VBD pts, compared to 36 for Colston. IMO Walker has a strong proven track record. Colston does not. IMO Walker is the lesser risk guy because of the demonstrated track record (although I concede that Colston may have slightly more upside).

 

[Driver]

Whoops - if I had known you were going to reply, DocT, I wouldn't have taken the time. I think I like your responses better than mine.

And, just to be clear, I'm not arguing that Walker is "more valuable" than Colston -- just that they're essentially equal value for dynasty purposes, IMO (same tier, etc.).

 

[H.K.]

Upsides for Walker:

-- What about DEN rushing game finally being stabilized with a proven runner? Should help their team quite a bit to keep drives going.

-- What about a top ranked college gunslinging QB starting a full season? Sure, you said hes not proven. He showed unbelievable improvement from his first game and looked better every week. FWIW, Leinart isn't "proven", but we still have Fitz AND Boldin in stop 5 in most rankings.

-- Has broken 1000 yards more than once.

-- Ranked in the top 10 twice (including #2 in 2004)

-- Has gone an entire season injury free.

-- What about the proven system in DEN? Made QBs look great and WR1s look fantastic.

To simply ignore other ways to evaluate is laughable. When you "rank" with a very biased selection of questions, of course it will come out in "a landslide".

While I could skewer the rest of your opinions and conjecture with facts, I'll just go with this for now: Please validate Walker has been top 10 in PPR twice. (Important for all to know scoring systems make an impact when having these conversations.)

TIA

 

[kensat30]

.... Colston is really tall and lanky, and who knows if he can handle the punishment of the NFL for a full season and stay healthy and productive. Randy Moss is the closest comparison to Colston from a purely physical standpoint ...

...

That's probably the best argument I've heard against Colston. Comparing him to Clayton was just not compelling but this is.

I wonder if they are bulking him up in the offseason. I remember every year how they would say Pinkston is bulking up in the offseason. He would come into camp up about 4 pounds and lose it the first two days of camp....

Good grief. When I see names like Randy Moss and Todd Pinkston in reference to Colston's size, it makes me wonder if some have even seen Colston. The kid is a big strong receiver who gets most of his looks on short and intermediate throws. Remember, NFL scouts were projecting him as a tight end.

Every time I watch Colston play, he comes off as very tall and lanky to me. The guy has surprising fluidity for his size, don't get me wrong, but every time I see him make contact I wonder if he can hold up. You know why he gets most of his looks on short and intermediate throws? Because of the seperation. Maybe the guy has really long legs or something, who knows, who cares, he gets open. I really have no proof that the Colston is going to get nicked up, but sometimes I catch myself cringing when he gets hit because of how tall and skinny he is.And if you want to compare Colston's physique to Roy Williams and Larry Fitzgerald be my guest. Personally, I think you are deluding yourself. Look at height and weight stats all you want, I personally will just eyeball the player and trust my intuition. You question if I've watched him play, yes I have. I watch every single game on replay.

--

And when I watch Javon Walker play, looks like a beast. This is the part where I explain why I think Walker is easily the more talented of the two. Size simply does not seem like an issue for Javon at all, because when matched up against DBs he looks BIG. He can overpower them for the ball for the most part. I just didn't see that from Colston last year and really you don't see that from too many WRs period. Generally if a WR is open he catches the ball, if he is not the he doesn't.

Pass off Walker's "one great year" due to Favre and Driver, but again I think you are deluding yourself. Walker made Favre that year, it's that simple. The year before that in 2003 his sophmore season, Walker brought back the deep threat attack attitude that was missed since Sterling Sharpe had retired. In 2004, Walker developed a short and intermediate game to go with that and developed into one of the best WRs in the NFL.

If you wanna check stats to back up my beliefs, check Favre's performance in 2004 versus his performance in 2005. Hell, check his 2003 stats and compare them to 2005. When Walker was healthy, starting in 2003 Favre would chuck it deep and Walker just made plays. He either caught the deep ball in coverage by beating one or several DBs, or he just outran the D. Driver couldn't do either of those things for Favre and that is why we saw a massive decline in TDs in 2005 and a massive increase in INTs. Favre lost had lost his playmaker. Personally, I think Walker is a more talented WR than the much hyped Chad Johnson, but again that is just personal opinion. The guy put up 1,200 yards and 9 TDs last year on a team that featured one of the worst QBs in the league for half the season, and then a rookie QB for the other half. Not even mentioning that this was his first year coming off an ACL injury AND that it was his first year playing for a new team under a completely different offense. I find this nothing short of amazing.

--

Now, I'm not saying that Colston can't do great things with his size and ability, but to discount Walker's one great season due to having Favre is ridiculous to me. The kid can ball. Bottomline, despite what is listed on the bios for height and weight numbers, players are built in different ways. Walker to me comes off as big playmaker. Colston comes off to me as a beanpole who knows how to get open. I mentioned this in my first post, but I want to repeat, Colston is in a MUCH better situation than Walker at the present, but I really like Walker from a long term talent perspective. I'm not trying to argue for or against Colston/Walker, just pointing out that I think Colston and not Walker has been the benefit of a great situation moreso than pure football talent. Colston hasn't proven to me with his play, that he will be a long term success in the league. Now if he had started off slow, had gotten injured, and then lit it up it might be a different story, but that didn't happen.

I don't care about Michael Clayton, Anquan Boldin, or Randy Moss when talking about Colston. All I'm concerned about is Colston's style of play, his physique, and his ability to come back from an injury. There are still question marks there. Walker proved to me this past season, that he can overcome injury, that he can overcome adversity, and a major change in situation, and that he can still ball.

In a redraft league I take Colston, and it's not even close.

 

[Chunky Soup]

Upsides for Walker:

-- What about DEN rushing game finally being stabilized with a proven runner? Should help their team quite a bit to keep drives going.

-- What about a top ranked college gunslinging QB starting a full season? Sure, you said hes not proven. He showed unbelievable improvement from his first game and looked better every week. FWIW, Leinart isn't "proven", but we still have Fitz AND Boldin in stop 5 in most rankings.

-- Has broken 1000 yards more than once.

-- Ranked in the top 10 twice (including #2 in 2004)

-- Has gone an entire season injury free.

-- What about the proven system in DEN? Made QBs look great and WR1s look fantastic.

To simply ignore other ways to evaluate is laughable. When you "rank" with a very biased selection of questions, of course it will come out in "a landslide".

While I could skewer the rest of your opinions and conjecture with facts, I'll just go with this for now: Please validate Walker has been top 10 in PPR twice. (Important for all to know scoring systems make an impact when having these conversations.)

TIA

I was considering non-PPR league because of the data I had (footballguys). Non-ppr top 10 twice. ppr hit about 12th and 3rd. Doesn't change much.