Jaworski on Cutler (1 Viewer)

[Andy Dufresne]

Can someone explain to my why there's any stock put into a quarterback's Senior Bowl performance?

Let's see he's

a) Playing in an unfamiliar system

b) for a coach he just met that week while

c) behind an unknown line and

d) throwing to recievers that he's unaccustomed to throwing to.

Doesn't seem much to go on.

Stop making excuses.

That smilie has been way more useful than I first thought it would.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Can someone explain to my why there's any stock put into a quarterback's Senior Bowl performance?

Let's see he's

a) Playing in an unfamiliar system

b) for a coach he just met that week while

c) behind an unknown line and

d) throwing to recievers that he's unaccustomed to throwing to.

Doesn't seem much to go on.

I have no idea, Andy. I would personally never put that much emphasis on 20 or so throws. Whether it's Cutler or Rivers, 20 passes in an all star game with a totally new system / players is way too small a sample for me.J

 

[Jason Wood]

Cutler had a laughably bad day, 8 for 19 and 2 picks (I realize one of the picks wasn't his fault per se) and a TD.

Hi Jason,Here's where I can tell you've let the Cutler hate overshadow your good judgement. 8 for 19 with 1 TD and 1 interception that's your fault is nowhere near "laughably bad" in my book. Especially given that he had a great week of practice.

Wasn't great for sure, but I'd never go near calling that laughable.

J

Hmmm...well, first of all, I was wrong on two counts. He wasn't 8 for 19, he was 6 for 19, and he threw one INT, not two.http://www.seniorbowl.com/2006/news/2006se...ts.htm#GAME.IND

Let's compare Cutler's performance to that of other recent Senior Bowl passers...

J. Cutler -- 6 of 19 (31.6%), 69 yards (3.6 YPA), 1 TD, 1 INT
C. Whitehurst -- 7 of 9 (77.8%), 90 yards (10.0 YPA), 1 TD, 0 INT
B. Croyle -- 6 of 11 (54.5%), 77 yards (7.0 YPA), 1 TD, 1 INT
C. Frye -- 10 of 12 (83.3%), 138 Yards (11.5 YPA), 1 TD, 0 INTs
K. Orton -- 6 of 13 (46.2%), 51 Yards (3.9 YPA), 0 TD, 1 INT
D. Greene -- 11 of 16 (68.8%), 102 yards (6.4 YPA), 1 TD, 0 INTs
J. Campbell -- 9 of 13 (69.2%), 116 yards (8.9 YPA), 0 TD, 0 INTs
J. Navarre -- 12 of 22 (54.5%), 126 yards (5.7 YPA), 1 TD, 0 INTs
C. Pickett -- 9 of 13 (69.2%), 74 yards (5.7 YPA), 0 TD, 0 INTs
P. Rivers -- 12 of 19 (63.2%), 213 yards (11.2 YPA), 2 TDs, 0 INTs
J.P. Losman -- 5 of 11 (45.5%), 53 yards (4.8 YPA), 0 TDs, 0 INTsSo of the 11 QBs listed here..., half of which aren't even considered more than NFL career backups, Cutler's performance ranks...

Completion Percentage -- Dead Last
Yards per Attempt -- Dead Last
Yards per Completion -- 6th
TD:Int Ratio -- 6th (tied)Looks pretty dismal to me

Hey Jason,I still don't understand the passionate hate.

6 for 19 and 1 TD with 1 Int (his fault?) is "laughably bad"?

19 passes and the guy is a sure fire bust?

There must be something you're not telling us.

J

Joe,I think I've been readily consistent and open about my views on this kid for a long time..."something you're not telling us?" Unless you think I'm secretly working for Tom Condon behind your back, I'm not sure what that implies.

My dislike of Cutler relative to Young and Leinart extends far beyond his Senior Bowl performance, but that SPECIFIC critique was the issue LHUCKS and you brought to bear.

Again, maybe we interpret things differently but when a guy is ranking dead last in just about every measurable passing stat at a game that should have been his coronation, I would think the appropriate assessment is much closer to "laughable" than "wasn't great for sure."

Personally, I think what irks me about Cutler is that, save for a very few people (such as Chaos and yourself, being a Tennessee guy), there's this man love for Cutler that's a) completely unjustified and b) belies any relation to NFL draft history in terms of QBs that project as franchise signal callers.

I just don't see how anyone that's really being intellectually honest with themselves can suggest that you really and truly believe Jay Cutler projects as a better pro than Matt Leinart. Empirically where's the rationale?

What could Matt Leinart have possibly done better, other than come out last year when he would've been a lock QB1 with no debate. Can you honestly tell me that, all else being equal, you have fewer questions about Jay Cutler's ability to run an NFL pro style offense than Matt Leinart? Seriously?

 

[Joe Bryant]

Empirically where's the rationale?

Hi Jason,Not implying anything but I do find the passion with which you dislike Cutler very interesting. I'm always interested in how different people will see the same event and make radically different conclusions and the Senior Bowl game was a great data field for that. Not right or wrong of course, just interesting.

I think we're mabye getting to it with what you wrote above.

I put way way WAY less emphasis on college stats than I'm guessing you do. And obviously less emphasis on one all star game.

I obviously don't watch as much film as Jaws but I'll fall much more in line with what I'm guessing drives his thought process there.

“It’s not my decision, obviously. It’s a tough decision,” Jaworski said. “I have studied all the quarterbacks, and I like [Jay] Cutler the best of them.”

Jaworski says his preference for the Vanderbilt star is not to belittle the accomplishments of the more heralded Matt Leinart and Vince Young. He just believes that the Commodore quarterback is NFL-ready because of the circumstances he played under.

“I think Matt Leinart is going to be very good, and I think Vince Young is going to be very good. … Everyone has different opinions. What I like about Cutler is that he threw with pressure on him,” Jaworski said. “His offensive line wasn’t that good, and I saw throws that you have to make at the NFL level, people around him, bodies, throwing from different platforms, around people, sidearm, over the top, and taking hits looking down the gun barrel.

“I didn’t see a whole lot of separation from his wide receiving corps, so he was throwing through tight windows. He had to throw accurately with pressure on him. That projects well in the National Football League.”

Of course, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and even one of Jaworski’s ESPN cohorts regards Cutler as the draft’s most overrated player right now.

“Mel [Kiper] has his own opinion. I look at the game tape, and that doesn’t lie,” Jaworski said. “When you look at every pass Vince Young has thrown, every pass Jay Cutler has thrown, and every pass Matt Leinart has thrown, you get a pretty good idea. I don’t need anyone to tell me. I played 30 years at the quarterback position, so I’ve got a pretty good feel for it.”

J

 

[ConstruxBoy]

Cutler had a laughably bad day, 8 for 19 and 2 picks (I realize one of the picks wasn't his fault per se) and a TD.

Hi Jason,Here's where I can tell you've let the Cutler hate overshadow your good judgement. 8 for 19 with 1 TD and 1 interception that's your fault is nowhere near "laughably bad" in my book. Especially given that he had a great week of practice.

Wasn't great for sure, but I'd never go near calling that laughable.

J

Hmmm...well, first of all, I was wrong on two counts. He wasn't 8 for 19, he was 6 for 19, and he threw one INT, not two.http://www.seniorbowl.com/2006/news/2006se...ts.htm#GAME.IND

Let's compare Cutler's performance to that of other recent Senior Bowl passers...



J. Cutler -- 6 of 19 (31.6%), 69 yards (3.6 YPA), 1 TD, 1 INT
C. Whitehurst -- 7 of 9 (77.8%), 90 yards (10.0 YPA), 1 TD, 0 INT
B. Croyle -- 6 of 11 (54.5%), 77 yards (7.0 YPA), 1 TD, 1 INT
C. Frye -- 10 of 12 (83.3%), 138 Yards (11.5 YPA), 1 TD, 0 INTs
K. Orton -- 6 of 13 (46.2%), 51 Yards (3.9 YPA), 0 TD, 1 INT
D. Greene -- 11 of 16 (68.8%), 102 yards (6.4 YPA), 1 TD, 0 INTs
J. Campbell -- 9 of 13 (69.2%), 116 yards (8.9 YPA), 0 TD, 0 INTs
J. Navarre -- 12 of 22 (54.5%), 126 yards (5.7 YPA), 1 TD, 0 INTs
C. Pickett -- 9 of 13 (69.2%), 74 yards (5.7 YPA), 0 TD, 0 INTs
P. Rivers -- 12 of 19 (63.2%), 213 yards (11.2 YPA), 2 TDs, 0 INTs
J.P. Losman -- 5 of 11 (45.5%), 53 yards (4.8 YPA), 0 TDs, 0 INTsSo of the 11 QBs listed here..., half of which aren't even considered more than NFL career backups, Cutler's performance ranks...

Completion Percentage -- Dead Last
Yards per Attempt -- Dead Last
Yards per Completion -- 6th
TD:Int Ratio -- 6th (tied)Looks pretty dismal to me

Hey Jason,It's obviously too early to tell about most of these guys, but the thing that I noticed is that the guy with the worst completion pct is the guy who has shown the most at the NFL level (Orton). Frye had a good game, but if Rivers busts than you could make a point that the QBs who have done well in the Senior Bowl lately really aren't that good. Why would that be? Well, I think that dumbing things down on the offensive side in terms of play-calling (due to the short week) and the defensive side (due to some special rules and the short week) probably make it difficult for a truly good QB to shine. Maybe the good QBs are so used to having to really do more things (make 3rd reads, see blitzes, remember more plays) that they're unable to play well in this different situation. But the QBs who aren't really that great can excel in a simplified environment, but then fail when they get to the NFL?

 

[Ridgelake]

One last thing about Leinart...man does he remind me of Troy Aikman when Aikman was coming out of UCLA. I'm surprised I haven't seen that comparison made by the media yet. That's the caliber of QB I see here. Much like Aikman, you just didn't see the guy make mistakes very often. When he did take risks they were very calculated. Couple that with the accuracy and I believe the only thing that will stop Leinart from attaining success at the next level is a really bad team...which is obviously quite possible.

LHUCKS, I am in complete agreement with you on this one. Aikman was an excellent field general. He was great at managing the game when he had talent around him. He knew where to put the ball to minimize mistakes but had the ability to take calculated risks. He was NOT a guy that would be overly successful raising the level of play of a poor supporting cast. He didn't have overly great improvisational skills.Leinart strikes me as much the same. He will be a very effective QB if/when pieces are placed around him. He will make a good team a great team, like Aikman. He doesn't appear to have the improvisational skills to make a bad team good.

In contrast, Cutler has the improvisational skills to make a bad team a good team. What we don't know is if he can make a good team a great team.

 

[Joe Bryant]

One last thing about Leinart...man does he remind me of Troy Aikman when Aikman was coming out of UCLA.  I'm surprised I haven't seen that comparison made by the media yet.  That's the caliber of QB I see here.  Much like Aikman, you just didn't see the guy make mistakes very often.  When he did take risks they were very calculated.  Couple that with the accuracy and I believe the only thing that will stop Leinart from attaining success at the next level is a really bad team...which is obviously quite possible.

LHUCKS, I am in complete agreement with you on this one. Aikman was an excellent field general. He was great at managing the game when he had talent around him. He knew where to put the ball to minimize mistakes but had the ability to take calculated risks. He was NOT a guy that would be overly successful raising the level of play of a poor supporting cast. He didn't have overly great improvisational skills.Leinart strikes me as much the same. He will be a very effective QB if/when pieces are placed around him. He will make a good team a great team, like Aikman. He doesn't appear to have the improvisational skills to make a bad team good.

In contrast, Cutler has the improvisational skills to make a bad team a good team. What we don't know is if he can make a good team a great team.

Good post, ridge.I can see this.

J

 

[Jason Wood]

One last thing about Leinart...man does he remind me of Troy Aikman when Aikman was coming out of UCLA.  I'm surprised I haven't seen that comparison made by the media yet.  That's the caliber of QB I see here.  Much like Aikman, you just didn't see the guy make mistakes very often.  When he did take risks they were very calculated.  Couple that with the accuracy and I believe the only thing that will stop Leinart from attaining success at the next level is a really bad team...which is obviously quite possible.

LHUCKS, I am in complete agreement with you on this one. Aikman was an excellent field general. He was great at managing the game when he had talent around him. He knew where to put the ball to minimize mistakes but had the ability to take calculated risks. He was NOT a guy that would be overly successful raising the level of play of a poor supporting cast. He didn't have overly great improvisational skills.Leinart strikes me as much the same. He will be a very effective QB if/when pieces are placed around him. He will make a good team a great team, like Aikman. He doesn't appear to have the improvisational skills to make a bad team good.

In contrast, Cutler has the improvisational skills to make a bad team a good team. What we don't know is if he can make a good team a great team.

Very well said Ridgelake......and since the NFL is a team game, give me the QB that will make a "good team a great team" any day over a QB that will make a "bad team a decent team, but we don't know if he can make a good team a great team."

 

[Joe Bryant]

One last thing about Leinart...man does he remind me of Troy Aikman when Aikman was coming out of UCLA.  I'm surprised I haven't seen that comparison made by the media yet.  That's the caliber of QB I see here.  Much like Aikman, you just didn't see the guy make mistakes very often.  When he did take risks they were very calculated.  Couple that with the accuracy and I believe the only thing that will stop Leinart from attaining success at the next level is a really bad team...which is obviously quite possible.

LHUCKS, I am in complete agreement with you on this one. Aikman was an excellent field general. He was great at managing the game when he had talent around him. He knew where to put the ball to minimize mistakes but had the ability to take calculated risks. He was NOT a guy that would be overly successful raising the level of play of a poor supporting cast. He didn't have overly great improvisational skills.Leinart strikes me as much the same. He will be a very effective QB if/when pieces are placed around him. He will make a good team a great team, like Aikman. He doesn't appear to have the improvisational skills to make a bad team good.

In contrast, Cutler has the improvisational skills to make a bad team a good team. What we don't know is if he can make a good team a great team.

Very well said Ridgelake......and since the NFL is a team game, give me the QB that will make a "good team a great team" any day over a QB that will make a "bad team a decent team, but we don't know if he can make a good team a great team."

What'll be interesting is if it goes as expected and Leinart goes to terrible team while Cutler goes to a decent maybe even good team.J

 

[Jason Wood]

One last thing about Leinart...man does he remind me of Troy Aikman when Aikman was coming out of UCLA.  I'm surprised I haven't seen that comparison made by the media yet.  That's the caliber of QB I see here.  Much like Aikman, you just didn't see the guy make mistakes very often.  When he did take risks they were very calculated.  Couple that with the accuracy and I believe the only thing that will stop Leinart from attaining success at the next level is a really bad team...which is obviously quite possible.

LHUCKS, I am in complete agreement with you on this one. Aikman was an excellent field general. He was great at managing the game when he had talent around him. He knew where to put the ball to minimize mistakes but had the ability to take calculated risks. He was NOT a guy that would be overly successful raising the level of play of a poor supporting cast. He didn't have overly great improvisational skills.Leinart strikes me as much the same. He will be a very effective QB if/when pieces are placed around him. He will make a good team a great team, like Aikman. He doesn't appear to have the improvisational skills to make a bad team good.

In contrast, Cutler has the improvisational skills to make a bad team a good team. What we don't know is if he can make a good team a great team.

Very well said Ridgelake......and since the NFL is a team game, give me the QB that will make a "good team a great team" any day over a QB that will make a "bad team a decent team, but we don't know if he can make a good team a great team."

What'll be interesting is if it goes as expected and Leinart goes to terrible team while Cutler goes to a decent maybe even good team.J

That's a factor to be sure. It's interesting because Oakland picks 7th, which is where Cutler could land (if Young is already off the board). Personally, I would rather be drafted by a number of teams picking earlier than Oakland.Now, what if Cutler goes to Arizona? Then I'll be somewhat intrigued.

 

[Joe Bryant]

One last thing about Leinart...man does he remind me of Troy Aikman when Aikman was coming out of UCLA.  I'm surprised I haven't seen that comparison made by the media yet.  That's the caliber of QB I see here.  Much like Aikman, you just didn't see the guy make mistakes very often.  When he did take risks they were very calculated.  Couple that with the accuracy and I believe the only thing that will stop Leinart from attaining success at the next level is a really bad team...which is obviously quite possible.

LHUCKS, I am in complete agreement with you on this one. Aikman was an excellent field general. He was great at managing the game when he had talent around him. He knew where to put the ball to minimize mistakes but had the ability to take calculated risks. He was NOT a guy that would be overly successful raising the level of play of a poor supporting cast. He didn't have overly great improvisational skills.Leinart strikes me as much the same. He will be a very effective QB if/when pieces are placed around him. He will make a good team a great team, like Aikman. He doesn't appear to have the improvisational skills to make a bad team good.

In contrast, Cutler has the improvisational skills to make a bad team a good team. What we don't know is if he can make a good team a great team.

Very well said Ridgelake......and since the NFL is a team game, give me the QB that will make a "good team a great team" any day over a QB that will make a "bad team a decent team, but we don't know if he can make a good team a great team."

What'll be interesting is if it goes as expected and Leinart goes to terrible team while Cutler goes to a decent maybe even good team.J

That's a factor to be sure. It's interesting because Oakland picks 7th, which is where Cutler could land (if Young is already off the board). Personally, I would rather be drafted by a number of teams picking earlier than Oakland.Now, what if Cutler goes to Arizona? Then I'll be somewhat intrigued.

Why would that be intriguing to you, Jason?J

 

[Jason Wood]

One last thing about Leinart...man does he remind me of Troy Aikman when Aikman was coming out of UCLA.  I'm surprised I haven't seen that comparison made by the media yet.  That's the caliber of QB I see here.  Much like Aikman, you just didn't see the guy make mistakes very often.  When he did take risks they were very calculated.  Couple that with the accuracy and I believe the only thing that will stop Leinart from attaining success at the next level is a really bad team...which is obviously quite possible.

LHUCKS, I am in complete agreement with you on this one. Aikman was an excellent field general. He was great at managing the game when he had talent around him. He knew where to put the ball to minimize mistakes but had the ability to take calculated risks. He was NOT a guy that would be overly successful raising the level of play of a poor supporting cast. He didn't have overly great improvisational skills.Leinart strikes me as much the same. He will be a very effective QB if/when pieces are placed around him. He will make a good team a great team, like Aikman. He doesn't appear to have the improvisational skills to make a bad team good.

In contrast, Cutler has the improvisational skills to make a bad team a good team. What we don't know is if he can make a good team a great team.

Very well said Ridgelake......and since the NFL is a team game, give me the QB that will make a "good team a great team" any day over a QB that will make a "bad team a decent team, but we don't know if he can make a good team a great team."

What'll be interesting is if it goes as expected and Leinart goes to terrible team while Cutler goes to a decent maybe even good team.J

That's a factor to be sure. It's interesting because Oakland picks 7th, which is where Cutler could land (if Young is already off the board). Personally, I would rather be drafted by a number of teams picking earlier than Oakland.Now, what if Cutler goes to Arizona? Then I'll be somewhat intrigued.

Why would that be intriguing to you, Jason?J

Because NFL success is as much about opportunity as ability. Arizona, with Dennis Green running the show and a cadre of offensive weapons, is a much more advantageous situation to land than Oakland or San Francisco or New Orleans, IMHO. With Kurt Warner being far from an iron man, that could be the one likely spot where Cutler would land and I might expect him to outperform his Leinart and Young at least for a year or two.I would feel the same if Leinart or Young landed in Arizona, I just don't see that as a possibility unless Arizona surprises us all and moves up a few slots.

 

[LHUCKS]

I really respect Jaws' opinions on QBs, probably moreso than anyone in the business and I haven't seen his take on Leinart vs. Cutler. I was seriously puzzled when he said he liked Cutler more than Leinart and basically I want to know why he likes Cutler more than Leinart.

I'm assuming it's becasue he thinks Cutler is more prepared to handle NFL pressure since that seems to be one of his strongest assets, but wanted to verify.

TIA.

 

[Orgazmo]

I really respect Jaws' opinions on QBs, probably moreso than anyone in the business and I haven't seen his take on Leinart vs. Cutler. I was seriously puzzled when he said he liked Cutler more than Leinart and basically I want to know why he likes Cutler more than Leinart.

When I look at quarterbacks, my job is to project them as how they'll play in the National Football League. When you talk about Jay Cutler, Matt Leinart, Vince Young, Kellen Clemens and Brodie Croyle, they're all terrific college players.

To go to the next level, you have to be special, and I look for those special qualities in those players, those qualities that I think will translate to the NFL.

After all of my evaluation and study, I have Cutler being the best NFL quarterback in five years.

He can make all the throws, has a strong arm, had to carry an offensive team at Vanderbilt because they had inferior talent around him. He was always playing under duress, which is what he'll see in the NFL with all of those fast bodies flying around him. He had to throw into tight windows because his receivers weren't very good and he made a lot of the throws that he's going to have to make at the NFL level -- the down-the-field throws, the comebacks, the far hash, deep throws, put the ball on the belt buckle with the throws in the flat -- Jay made a lot of throws that I like.

Second on my list is Matt Leinart. He was very productive at USC, a good pro system. I project Leinart to be a good NFL quarterback. The blemish I have on Leinart is that I didn't see enough of the deep throws that you're going to have to make in the NFL. He's going to have to prove to me that he can make those throws -- the skinny post, the 20-yard comeback and the throws into tight coverage.

At USC, Leinart had a lot of open receivers, great protection from an excellent offensive line and wonderful talent around him. He did not have to throw from a compressed pocket all too often.

http://www.ronjaworski.com/free_jaws_bites.php

 

[V1LL]

I really respect Jaws' opinions on QBs, probably moreso than anyone in the business and I haven't seen his take on Leinart vs. Cutler. I was seriously puzzled when he said he liked Cutler more than Leinart and basically I want to know why he likes Cutler more than Leinart.

I'm assuming it's becasue he thinks Cutler is more prepared to handle NFL pressure since that seems to be one of his strongest assets, but wanted to verify.

TIA.

oh, you missed that part? he said it was cuz the Pac 10 sucks and Leinart is a white guy like todd marinovich.

 

[LHUCKS]

I really respect Jaws' opinions on QBs, probably moreso than anyone in the business and I haven't seen his take on Leinart vs. Cutler.  I was seriously puzzled when he said he liked Cutler more than Leinart and basically I want to know why he likes Cutler more than Leinart.

I'm assuming it's becasue he thinks Cutler is more prepared to handle NFL pressure since that seems to be one of his strongest assets, but wanted to verify. 

TIA.

oh, you missed that part? he said it was cuz the Pac 10 sucks and Leinart is a white guy like todd marinovich.

leave...tool

 

[Texasmouth]

I really respect Jaws' opinions on QBs, probably moreso than anyone in the business and I haven't seen his take on Leinart vs. Cutler. I was seriously puzzled when he said he liked Cutler more than Leinart and basically I want to know why he likes Cutler more than Leinart.

I'm assuming it's becasue he thinks Cutler is more prepared to handle NFL pressure since that seems to be one of his strongest assets, but wanted to verify.

TIA.

oh, you missed that part? he said it was cuz the Pac 10 sucks and Leinart is a white guy like todd marinovich.

leave...tool

Youre still here, no one else should have to leave.

 

[LHUCKS]

I really respect Jaws' opinions on QBs, probably moreso than anyone in the business and I haven't seen his take on Leinart vs. Cutler.  I was seriously puzzled when he said he liked Cutler more than Leinart and basically I want to know why he likes Cutler more than Leinart.

When I look at quarterbacks, my job is to project them as how they'll play in the National Football League. When you talk about Jay Cutler, Matt Leinart, Vince Young, Kellen Clemens and Brodie Croyle, they're all terrific college players.

To go to the next level, you have to be special, and I look for those special qualities in those players, those qualities that I think will translate to the NFL.

After all of my evaluation and study, I have Cutler being the best NFL quarterback in five years.

He can make all the throws, has a strong arm, had to carry an offensive team at Vanderbilt because they had inferior talent around him. He was always playing under duress, which is what he'll see in the NFL with all of those fast bodies flying around him. He had to throw into tight windows because his receivers weren't very good and he made a lot of the throws that he's going to have to make at the NFL level -- the down-the-field throws, the comebacks, the far hash, deep throws, put the ball on the belt buckle with the throws in the flat -- Jay made a lot of throws that I like.

Second on my list is Matt Leinart. He was very productive at USC, a good pro system. I project Leinart to be a good NFL quarterback. The blemish I have on Leinart is that I didn't see enough of the deep throws that you're going to have to make in the NFL. He's going to have to prove to me that he can make those throws -- the skinny post, the 20-yard comeback and the throws into tight coverage.

At USC, Leinart had a lot of open receivers, great protection from an excellent offensive line and wonderful talent around him. He did not have to throw from a compressed pocket all too often.

http://www.ronjaworski.com/free_jaws_bites.php

Ahh...thanks.I never buy the "weak arm" arguments. The greatest QB of all time didn't have a cannon.

 

[LHUCKS]

I really respect Jaws' opinions on QBs, probably moreso than anyone in the business and I haven't seen his take on Leinart vs. Cutler.  I was seriously puzzled when he said he liked Cutler more than Leinart and basically I want to know why he likes Cutler more than Leinart.

I'm assuming it's becasue he thinks Cutler is more prepared to handle NFL pressure since that seems to be one of his strongest assets, but wanted to verify. 

TIA.

oh, you missed that part? he said it was cuz the Pac 10 sucks and Leinart is a white guy like todd marinovich.

leave...tool

Youre still here, no one else should have to leave.

WTF are you? Go back to the "special people" school you came from.

 

[Sopranos]

I like Salsberry[sp] on QB's the best. Jaws i like but i dont agree.

 

[LHUCKS]

I like Salsberry[sp]  on QB's the best. Jaws i like but i dont agree.

He's alright. I believe he likes Leinart the most but I find his comments to be very generalized at times.

 

[Kleck.]

Leinart is IMO one of the most accurate passers to enter the draft in years. I think he makes great decisions on the field and is plenty capable of leading an NFL offense. His arm strength does not concern me one bit.

I still believe he should be the second player taken in this draft.

 

[wannabee]

I think we need to keep in mind that someone could be a great NFL QB, and still not be a great fantasy QB.

 

[Kleck.]

I think we need to keep in mind that someone could be a great NFL QB, and still not be a great fantasy QB.

Like Troy Aikman

 

[DeCleater]

I really respect Jaws' opinions on QBs, probably moreso than anyone in the business and I haven't seen his take on Leinart vs. Cutler.  I was seriously puzzled when he said he liked Cutler more than Leinart and basically I want to know why he likes Cutler more than Leinart.

I'm assuming it's becasue he thinks Cutler is more prepared to handle NFL pressure since that seems to be one of his strongest assets, but wanted to verify. 

TIA.

oh, you missed that part? he said it was cuz the Pac 10 sucks and Leinart is a white guy like todd marinovich.

leave...tool

You pulled the pin and then act surprised when the grenade goes off.

 

[LHUCKS]

I think we need to keep in mind that someone could be a great NFL QB, and still not be a great fantasy QB.

Like Troy Aikman

I made the comparison to Aikman in another QB thread.

 

[Aaronur]

I really respect Jaws' opinions on QBs, probably moreso than anyone in the business and I haven't seen his take on Leinart vs. Cutler.  I was seriously puzzled when he said he liked Cutler more than Leinart and basically I want to know why he likes Cutler more than Leinart.

I'm assuming it's becasue he thinks Cutler is more prepared to handle NFL pressure since that seems to be one of his strongest assets, but wanted to verify. 

TIA.

oh, you missed that part? he said it was cuz the Pac 10 sucks and Leinart is a white guy like todd marinovich.

This is helpfull. Get a clue.

 

[V1LL]

I really respect Jaws' opinions on QBs, probably moreso than anyone in the business and I haven't seen his take on Leinart vs. Cutler. I was seriously puzzled when he said he liked Cutler more than Leinart and basically I want to know why he likes Cutler more than Leinart.

I'm assuming it's becasue he thinks Cutler is more prepared to handle NFL pressure since that seems to be one of his strongest assets, but wanted to verify.

TIA.

oh, you missed that part? he said it was cuz the Pac 10 sucks and Leinart is a white guy like todd marinovich.

This is helpfull. Get a clue.

 

[cstu]

I really respect Jaws' opinions on QBs, probably moreso than anyone in the business and I haven't seen his take on Leinart vs. Cutler. I was seriously puzzled when he said he liked Cutler more than Leinart and basically I want to know why he likes Cutler more than Leinart.

I'm assuming it's becasue he thinks Cutler is more prepared to handle NFL pressure since that seems to be one of his strongest assets, but wanted to verify.

TIA.

oh, you missed that part? he said it was cuz the Pac 10 sucks and Leinart is a white guy like todd marinovich.

leave...tool

Coming from Mr. "Hawk = Katzenmoyer" and "Big 10 sucks", this is irony.

 

[LHUCKS]

I really respect Jaws' opinions on QBs, probably moreso than anyone in the business and I haven't seen his take on Leinart vs. Cutler.  I was seriously puzzled when he said he liked Cutler more than Leinart and basically I want to know why he likes Cutler more than Leinart.

I'm assuming it's becasue he thinks Cutler is more prepared to handle NFL pressure since that seems to be one of his strongest assets, but wanted to verify. 

TIA.

oh, you missed that part? he said it was cuz the Pac 10 sucks and Leinart is a white guy like todd marinovich.

leave...tool

Coming from Mr. "Hawk = Katzenmoyer" and "Big 10 sucks", this is irony.

I didn't realize we weren't allowed to have opinions on this board...I'm sorry, but the Big10 sucks IMO. Everybody around here knows that's my opinion. I'm also pretty sure that if I see similarities between Katzenmoyer and Hawk, I can state as such also. The problem is that everybody has so much manlove for Hawk, that you can't even start a critical thread about the guy. The thread completely proved my point. Further, I think Reggie Bush is a can't miss guy, but you don't see me bringing negativity into any anti-Reggie Bush threads do you?If somebody says the Pac10 sucks, I don't get my panties in a bunch...I just retort with stats. Unfortunately I was never able to make my argument in that thread because of the tool gathering...it wasn't even worth my time. We should have immigration control on this board as it relates to FFToday or wherever some of these tools came from. I know Joe and David want to grow the board, but allowing guys to bring negativity into critical threads brings down the quality of the board.

I said the Big10 sucks and I compared Hawk to Katzenmoyer, so what?

Why don't we all just have the same opinion and only post postive comments about players and college conferences, that would make this place really awesome and thought provoking.

As it is now, I really don't want to post here for a while after that episode. I'd rather just cut this board up in ff leagues like I did last year...and let that do the talking once more.

 

[cstu]

I really respect Jaws' opinions on QBs, probably moreso than anyone in the business and I haven't seen his take on Leinart vs. Cutler. I was seriously puzzled when he said he liked Cutler more than Leinart and basically I want to know why he likes Cutler more than Leinart.

I'm assuming it's becasue he thinks Cutler is more prepared to handle NFL pressure since that seems to be one of his strongest assets, but wanted to verify.

TIA.

oh, you missed that part? he said it was cuz the Pac 10 sucks and Leinart is a white guy like todd marinovich.

leave...tool

Coming from Mr. "Hawk = Katzenmoyer" and "Big 10 sucks", this is irony.

I didn't realize we weren't allowed to have opinions on this board...I'm sorry, but the Big10 sucks IMO. Everybody around here knows that's my opinion. I'm also pretty sure that if I see similarities between Katzenmoyer and Hawk, I can state as such also. The problem is that everybody has so much manlove for Hawk, that you can't even start a critical thread about the guy. The thread completely proved my point. Further, I think Reggie Bush is can't miss guy, but you don't see me bringing negativity into any anti-Reggie Bush threads do you?If somebody says the Pac10 sucks, I don't get my panties in a bunch...I just retort with stats. Unfortunately I was never able to make my argument in that thread because of the tool gathering...it wasn't even worth my time. We should have immigration control on this board as it relates to FFToday or wherever some of those tools came from. I know Joe and David want to grow the board, but allowing guys to bring negativity into critical threads brings down the quality of the board.

I said the Big10 sucks and I compared Hawk to Katzenmoyer, so what?

Hey, we all have opinions and you're welcome to express them, but how can you put down the Big 10 in one thread and come into another thread and call a guy a tool for saying the Pac 10 sucks? I'll acknowledge that they have two very different styles fo football, but it's ridiculous to say either of them sucks.

 

[LHUCKS]

Hey, we all have opinions and you're welcome to express them, but how can you put down the Big 10 in one thread and come into another thread and call a guy a tool for saying the Pac 10 sucks? I'll acknowledge that they have two very different styles fo football, but it's ridiculous to say either of them sucks.

Cmon...there's a big difference between me stating that the Big10 sucks in a thread that relates to a Big10 player that I started...vs. a totally sarcastic comment from a tool trying to ruin another thread.

 

[cstu]

Hey, we all have opinions and you're welcome to express them, but how can you put down the Big 10 in one thread and come into another thread and call a guy a tool for saying the Pac 10 sucks? I'll acknowledge that they have two very different styles fo football, but it's ridiculous to say either of them sucks.

Cmon...there's a big difference between me stating that the Big10 sucks in a thread that relates to a Big10 player that I started...vs. a totally sarcastic comment from a tool trying to ruin another thread.

Ok, I know the rules of thread etiquette now.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

hey LHUCKS,

If you can't take the heat, maybe you should get out of the kitchen, huh?

 

[psychobillies]

What a shame. I thought there was a really good thread going here about two of the top prospects. Now it has just turned into a little slap fight.

 

[LHUCKS]

hey LHUCKS,

If you can't take the heat, maybe you should get out of the kitchen, huh?

Go get me some coffee.

 

[Joe Bryant]

What a shame. I thought there was a really good thread going here about two of the top prospects. Now it has just turned into a little slap fight.

Yes. Please put the discussion back on to the QB prospects. Thanks.J

 

[Chaos Commish]

Phil Simms opinion of the top three

On Cutler:

The most overrated player in the draft? That's pretty funny.

I was very surprised when I watched Cutler on film for a couple of reasons. I didn't realize how good an athlete he is. He's big, very strong, and has an NFL body, especially for a quarterback.

He plays big and he plays strong. He can move around much better than I thought. He ran some option, ran the football well. He can stand in, and deliver the ball downfield with accuracy and power even when getting hit. His arm strength is exceptional -- tremendous. And what I like so much about his arm strength is that on short passes he gets the ball to his targets quick so they have a chance to run with it. It's not a high-effort throw. He doesn't have to work hard to get the ball somewhere with speed. It's natural.

I've read and heard from some NFL coaches that he tries to use his arm too much -- maybe tries to throw the ball hard when he shouldn't. I didn't notice that, but I did see him try to stick the ball into some tough spots. But I would look at that as a plus. At least a coach has the ability to tell a Jay Cutler to take something off his passes if he needs to.

Cutler probably played in an environment that was most NFL-like for a quarterback. I watched about five Vanderbilt games, and he got hit a lot. He's used to making decisions and throwing from a position that is more like what he'll see in the NFL.

There were a bunch of games that Vanderbilt would not have had a chance to win or stay close if he were not the quarterback. You could say that about Leinart and Young, but I'm not sure USC or Texas would have lost one or two games if their backup quarterbacks were in there. I don't know anything about the backup quarterback at Vanderbilt, but I know Cutler was always the best player on the field in their games.

Lots of other interesting comments in the link.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Another thought. John Clayton was on this morning saying the Jets are favoring Cutler over Leinart. Although if both are available to them and they don't move from #4, they'll take Ferguson according to Clayton.

Cutler reportedly wowed the Jets people with his interview stuff.

FWIW.

J

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Another thought. John Clayton was on this morning saying the Jets are favoring Cutler over Leinart. Although if both are available to them and they don't move from #4, they'll take Ferguson according to Clayton.

Cutler reportedly wowed the Jets people with his interview stuff.

FWIW.

J

I think that's how it's going to go down:1. Bush

2. Williams

3. Leinart/Young

4. Ferguson

 

[ConstruxBoy]

Another thought. John Clayton was on this morning saying the Jets are favoring Cutler over Leinart. Although if both are available to them and they don't move from #4, they'll take Ferguson according to Clayton.

Cutler reportedly wowed the Jets people with his interview stuff.

FWIW.

J

I think that's how it's going to go down:1. Bush

2. Williams

3. Leinart/Young

4. Ferguson

I still can't understand why the Saints take Williams over Ferguson. Just seems dumb.

 

[TheLaw]

Can someone explain to my why there's any stock put into a quarterback's Senior Bowl performance?

Let's see he's

a) Playing in an unfamiliar system

b) for a coach he just met that week while

c) behind an unknown line and

d) throwing to recievers that he's unaccustomed to throwing to.

Doesn't seem much to go on.

I have no idea, Andy. I would personally never put that much emphasis on 20 or so throws. Whether it's Cutler or Rivers, 20 passes in an all star game with a totally new system / players is way too small a sample for me.J

I agree in principle, but feel the senior bowl is likely a better indicator than the Wonderlic.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Another thought. John Clayton was on this morning saying the Jets are favoring Cutler over Leinart. Although if both are available to them and they don't move from #4, they'll take Ferguson according to Clayton.

Cutler reportedly wowed the Jets people with his interview stuff.

FWIW.

J

I think that's how it's going to go down:1. Bush

2. Williams

3. Leinart/Young

4. Ferguson

FWIW Andy, Clayton seemed pretty convinced the Titans would go Young. Again, this is all guessing right now. J

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I still can't understand why the Saints take Williams over Ferguson. Just seems dumb.

It did to me at first. But upon further review, it does make sense. Chaos Commish talked me into it.It sounds like they're going to move Jamaal Brown, last year's #1 to LT. He has the potential, at least as much as D'Brick, to be a franchise LT.

Taking Williams with the first gives them a potential franchise DE. Will Smith and Charles Grant are solid, but probably aren't at that level of Williams now and don't have his potential.

With their 2nd rounder they can select a very, very good tackle to play on the right side. Someone like Colledge.

It's not as ridiculous as it seems.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Another thought. John Clayton was on this morning saying the Jets are favoring Cutler over Leinart. Although if both are available to them and they don't move from #4, they'll take Ferguson according to Clayton.

Cutler reportedly wowed the Jets people with his interview stuff.

FWIW.

J

I think that's how it's going to go down:1. Bush

2. Williams

3. Leinart/Young

4. Ferguson

FWIW Andy, Clayton seemed pretty convinced the Titans would go Young. Again, this is all guessing right now. J

I'm leaning that way too. I think we may see Leinart slide. Isn't it strange that with all this "connections" talk with Leinart and Young involving the Titans that nobody mentions that Vanderbilt University is actually IN Nashville?

 

[ConstruxBoy]

I still can't understand why the Saints take Williams over Ferguson. Just seems dumb.

It did to me at first. But upon further review, it does make sense. Chaos Commish talked me into it.It sounds like they're going to move Jamaal Brown, last year's #1 to LT. He has the potential, at least as much as D'Brick, to be a franchise LT.

Taking Williams with the first gives them a potential franchise DE. Will Smith and Charles Grant are solid, but probably aren't at that level of Williams now and don't have his potential.

With their 2nd rounder they can select a very, very good tackle to play on the right side. Someone like Colledge.

It's not as ridiculous as it seems.

I understand BPA, but is Williams really THAT much better than Ferguson, Hawk or Davis, all of which would be a greater talent increase from their current starters (and yes, I like Hilton too)?That's where I don't like it. I don't think the seperation of Williams from the other 3 is that great and I do think that the talent is much lighter at OT, LB and TE for the Saints.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Another thought. John Clayton was on this morning saying the Jets are favoring Cutler over Leinart. Although if both are available to them and they don't move from #4, they'll take Ferguson according to Clayton.

Cutler reportedly wowed the Jets people with his interview stuff.

FWIW.

J

I think that's how it's going to go down:1. Bush

2. Williams

3. Leinart/Young

4. Ferguson

FWIW Andy, Clayton seemed pretty convinced the Titans would go Young. Again, this is all guessing right now. J

I'm leaning that way too. I think we may see Leinart slide. Isn't it strange that with all this "connections" talk with Leinart and Young involving the Titans that nobody mentions that Vanderbilt University is actually IN Nashville?

Hi Andy,Yes, that is kind of odd. But to be fair, Vandy for whatever reason doesn't "feel" all that connected to Nashville. Especially Vandy football.

J

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Hi Andy,

Yes, that is kind of odd. But to be fair, Vandy for whatever reason doesn't "feel" all that connected to Nashville. Especially Vandy football.

J

Just a side note:I was down in Nashville with some friends one summer and we were looking for a field to play football on. We went to Vanderbilt's stadium and found the gate wide open. The only people there were some immigrant clean up crew guys.

We played touch football on Vandy's field for over two hours. It was great!

 

[ConstruxBoy]

Hi Andy,

Yes, that is kind of odd. But to be fair, Vandy for whatever reason doesn't "feel" all that connected to Nashville. Especially Vandy football.

J

Just a side note:I was down in Nashville with some friends one summer and we were looking for a field to play football on. We went to Vanderbilt's stadium and found the gate wide open. The only people there were some immigrant clean up crew guys.

We played touch football on Vandy's field for over two hours. It was great!

Did you pretend you were Jay Cutler?

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Hi Andy,

Yes, that is kind of odd. But to be fair, Vandy for whatever reason doesn't "feel" all that connected to Nashville. Especially Vandy football.

J

Just a side note:I was down in Nashville with some friends one summer and we were looking for a field to play football on. We went to Vanderbilt's stadium and found the gate wide open. The only people there were some immigrant clean up crew guys.

We played touch football on Vandy's field for over two hours. It was great!

Did you pretend you were Jay Cutler?

This was about 8 years ago.It was about 100 degress and 95% humidity. We walked three miles to get there and none of us brought water. We played the full field (wtf were we thinking?).

I'm surpised nobody got heat stroke. Seriously.