Jeff Ireland asks Dez Bryant if his mom is a prostitute (1 Viewer)

[shadyridr]

Skip Bayless agrees with you guys who think it wasnt out of line so at least you have that going for you

 

[Gr00vus]

When MOP proves himself to be one of the classiest, most level headed representatives of your group you might want to reconsider your approach to the subject in question Dolphin fans.

 

[road warrior]

Can't wait... 2011.... Miami visits Dallas. This will be brought up again.

 

[fatness]

When you are investing millions of dollars there is no questions that are out of line.

Half the people defending Ireland would be going nuts if similar questions were asked of Tim Tebow.

 

[Bonzai]

When you are investing millions of dollars there is no questions that are out of line.

Half the people defending Ireland would be going nuts if similar questions were asked of Tim Tebow.

His mother was a virgin.

 

[Wadsworth]

When you are investing millions of dollars there is no questions that are out of line.

Half the people defending Ireland would be going nuts if similar questions were asked of Tim Tebow.

His mother was a virgin.

was?

 

[Area51Inhabitant]

What a bunch of pansies we have in here...get over it.

And for the record supposedly Dez is none to happy with his mothers sexual preference from quotes in the Dallas newspaper

That's how they worked through Angela's change in sexual orientation. Dez was in high school when he learned his mother was no longer interested in romantic relationships with men.

"I didn't like it. Really, I still don't," he said. "I dealt with it and now I'm comfortable with it."

So discussing his mother in a sexual content doesn't really seem too offensive to him.

If he chooses to discuss it with the media, its his right and it would lead to zero job related repercussions. Not the same at all when you're asked about it in such a blunt way knowing the person whose asking it is someone who can influence you're future employment opportunities. Thats why there are laws about conduct during a job interview and should Bryant decide he wants to test the legal system, the NFL might find out how those laws apply to these pre draft interviews.

I'm going to have to go ahead and say there were no laws broken in that interview. And if Dez wants to "test the legal system" to find out, Dez will probably be working as a dealer for his mother before he knows it.

I'm going to say you're wrong about your first point.http://www.doi.gov/hrm/pmanager/st13c4.html

Your second point we'll probably never know since I imagine that Goodell's next move will be to come up with a league interview policy for all teams and to make sure that every team is briefed on it so that this pr fiasco never happens again.

 

[Bonzai]

When you are investing millions of dollars there is no questions that are out of line.

Half the people defending Ireland would be going nuts if similar questions were asked of Tim Tebow.

:( His mother was a virgin.

was?

She ascended into heaven years ago.:slapsknee:

 

[FreeBaGeL]

When you are investing millions of dollars there is no questions that are out of line.

Half the people defending Ireland would be going nuts if similar questions were asked of Tim Tebow.

I'm sure Tebow was asked questions about his religion and beliefs during at least one of his interviews, which most people consider out of line for a "normal" job interview.And Gerhart was asked multiple times about his race during his interview, which I KNOW most people consider out of line for a "normal" job interview.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

tough one....some recent player/women issues for the NFL (Ben, Santonio, etc), many DV type issues in the past involving players.......NFL worried about protecting the shield....young men who may have had mothers that were into this type of thing, it could have a profound affect on them....these young men are getting ready to be put into the spotlight with a ton of cash and women everywhere....it might be nice to get look into Dez's mindset when it comes to dealing with women/relationships, and you can probably bet that how things went with his mother as he grew up has left some lasting impressions on him.....not saying he does, but for any of you in here, if your mom was into crack and possibly prostitution, it would probably have an affect on how you see women and your relationship with them......there may have been a better way to ask the question, but I don't think the line of questioning was unreasonable under the circumstances.....there probably really isn't even a good way to ask a question like that......but with recent and past events, you could see why teams might want to take a look at how their players deal with women/relationships and the things that have formed their opinions/views.....

I don't know....tough one...trying to put myself in Dez's position, and if it is pretty public knowledge that my mom was involved in some of these things and did some time for it etc, I guess I would kind of understand if people also may have thought that prostitution might have also been an issue.....and I could probably see why people that are getting ready to give me millions of dollars might want to know how that has affected me since I will be in the public eye and representing them....and I will potentially be in situations where women might might take advantage of me or vice versa...situations involving women where my buttons might get pushed.....and if I have some issues around that because of the way things went down when I was growing up, I could maybe understand.....

I don't know how Dez dealt with all of that growing up, I don't know if he had counseling, or other really supportive family members, etc......we do know that in other situations (Deon, lying to the NCAA) he hasn't used the best judgment....

I could see where this dude was maybe trying to go with his questioning, but obviously he did not do it the right way, so much so that he apologized for it......hopefully everybody can just move on.....just like Dez is hoping about his mistakes....

 

[Sabertooth]

When you are investing millions of dollars there is no questions that are out of line.

Half the people defending Ireland would be going nuts if similar questions were asked of Tim Tebow.

His mother was a virgin.

 

[PatsFanCT]

What a bunch of pansies we have in here...get over it.

And for the record supposedly Dez is none to happy with his mothers sexual preference from quotes in the Dallas newspaper

That's how they worked through Angela's change in sexual orientation. Dez was in high school when he learned his mother was no longer interested in romantic relationships with men.

"I didn't like it. Really, I still don't," he said. "I dealt with it and now I'm comfortable with it."

So discussing his mother in a sexual content doesn't really seem too offensive to him.

If he chooses to discuss it with the media, its his right and it would lead to zero job related repercussions. Not the same at all when you're asked about it in such a blunt way knowing the person whose asking it is someone who can influence you're future employment opportunities. Thats why there are laws about conduct during a job interview and should Bryant decide he wants to test the legal system, the NFL might find out how those laws apply to these pre draft interviews.

I'm going to have to go ahead and say there were no laws broken in that interview. And if Dez wants to "test the legal system" to find out, Dez will probably be working as a dealer for his mother before he knows it.

I'm going to say you're wrong about your first point.http://www.doi.gov/hrm/pmanager/st13c4.html

Your second point we'll probably never know since I imagine that Goodell's next move will be to come up with a league interview policy for all teams and to make sure that every team is briefed on it so that this pr fiasco never happens again.

Pretty sure I'm right on both points.

 

[az_prof]

I'm going to have to go ahead and say there were no laws broken in that interview. And if Dez wants to "test the legal system" to find out, Dez will probably be working as a dealer for his mother before he knows it.

No law has to be broken and no charges filed for the leagues conduct policy to be violated. This is an embarrassment and beyond normal moral bounds--he and the team should be fined.

 

[az_prof]

When you are investing millions of dollars there is no questions that are out of line.

Half the people defending Ireland would be going nuts if similar questions were asked of Tim Tebow.

I'm sure Tebow was asked questions about his religion and beliefs during at least one of his interviews, which most people consider out of line for a "normal" job interview.And Gerhart was asked multiple times about his race during his interview, which I KNOW most people consider out of line for a "normal" job interview.

These questions are absolutely illegal. Religion and race are protected categories and you cannot ask applicants about them or consider them in the hiring process. Clearly the league has a problem. I would like to see some front offices punished but that won't happen because the NFL has a double standard where they punish players hard but lets teams off with warnings and with "policy changes."

 

[Stinkin Ref]

When you are investing millions of dollars there is no questions that are out of line.

Half the people defending Ireland would be going nuts if similar questions were asked of Tim Tebow.

I'm sure Tebow was asked questions about his religion and beliefs during at least one of his interviews, which most people consider out of line for a "normal" job interview.And Gerhart was asked multiple times about his race during his interview, which I KNOW most people consider out of line for a "normal" job interview.

These questions are absolutely illegal. Religion and race are protected categories and you cannot ask applicants about them or consider them in the hiring process. Clearly the league has a problem. I would like to see some front offices punished but that won't happen because the NFL has a double standard where they punish players hard but lets teams off with warnings and with "policy changes."

part of the problem is that when the NFL has these talks with players, they may not technically be called "job interviews".....so I am not sure if all the legal do's and don'ts apply......

 

[Area51Inhabitant]

Pretty sure I'm right on both points.

The link I listed says no questions can be asked about Marriage and or Family in a job interview. There might be some question as to weather or not these pre draft interviews qualify as job interviews or not. I do think it would be an interesting question to find out if this incident or something else that was asked in a pre draft interview would ever be put to the legal test but like I said before, Roger Goodell will never let it get to that point before he interveens with some sort of interviewing policy to ward off any future litigation.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

The NFL isn't a normal company and this wasn't a normal interview. But if you want to play hypotheticals, it would make sense to know what illegal activity his mother is into. A prostitute crack-user might have some bad connections who might want to use her son for unlawful gains.

Let me take it a step further. Suppose you suspected the family had organized crime ties. Would that be an appropriate question for a professional sports franchise? Would the player be commended for punching the person who asked that question?

The guy apologized because it looks bad and PR is more important to the NFL than anything. But when teams are investing millions and their jobs are on the line based on whether draft picks pan out or not, they're going to be very, very thorough in their questioning. Maybe it's over the line, but they're looking for any indication someone is or isn't going to work out. That's the business of the NFL.

This is what background checks are for. The only reason he asked the question was to get a reaction, he could have done that without being a total dirtbag but failed miserably.

The truth is that we don't know why the question was asked so I'm still skeptical. It's possible he did already know and he wanted to see how forthcoming he would be-- not to get a reaction. If they guy hides something that isn't even his fault, he might be less forthcoming with behavior that is his fault. If the guy lies about his family background in an interview, maybe he's hiding other things. NFL teams don't like surprises.Unfortunately, most players get suspended in the NFL for off-field incidents. That means all kinds of off-field subjects become issues in interviews. It would be nice to say it doesn't matter and what happens on game day is all that counts...but we all know that isn't true. Teams are investing a lot in a player-- forget the money, the draft pick is gold and the opportunity cost of selecting someone else is huge. So they're going to really, really kick the tires and see what they're getting.

I think it's fair to think it's an inappropriate question, but it doesn't seem to be an out-of-left-field question. A young crack user who's done jail time? Wouldn't be the first prostitute with that background. Does it really matter? That's the issue, I suppose. Maybe they want to know how he deals with it (hothead, inner strength, religion, mentally-imbalanced). Maybe they want to make sure he's leaving that kind of life behind. Maybe they want to make sure his inner circle is untainted by illegal activity. Lots of reasons, and they're not all related to simply "getting a reaction," though that could also be a reason.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

When you are investing millions of dollars there is no questions that are out of line.

Half the people defending Ireland would be going nuts if similar questions were asked of Tim Tebow.

I'm sure Tebow was asked questions about his religion and beliefs during at least one of his interviews, which most people consider out of line for a "normal" job interview.And Gerhart was asked multiple times about his race during his interview, which I KNOW most people consider out of line for a "normal" job interview.

These questions are absolutely illegal. Religion and race are protected categories and you cannot ask applicants about them or consider them in the hiring process. Clearly the league has a problem. I would like to see some front offices punished but that won't happen because the NFL has a double standard where they punish players hard but lets teams off with warnings and with "policy changes."

Well, is it a job interview if they can't offer you a job? Theoretically, the Rams would be the only team who could do that. Bryant could have been selected before the Dolphins even had a chance to draft him. It's likely that teams interview guys who end up not being available when they draft. Is it a job interview if everyone knows there's no job offer on the table and the person might not even be available to take the job if it ever existed, which it might not? "Drafts" and "interviews" don't normally go together in the normal work force.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

When MOP proves himself to be one of the classiest, most level headed representatives of your group you might want to reconsider your approach to the subject in question Dolphin fans.

 

[Wadsworth]

This is what background checks are for. The only reason he asked the question was to get a reaction, he could have done that without being a total dirtbag but failed miserably.

What is the argument here? That players in the NFL, esp prospects are dehumanized? Who exactly isn't dehumanized in the NFL? Player prospects are essentially taught from a young age, some since playing sports in grade school that their worth is linked to their athletic performance. That there are two sets of rules. One for elite athletes and one for everyone else. Many aren't told or guided to actually try for a real education. Many have hanger ons and agents and player brokers trying to needled their way into their lives. This develops a sense of insecurity that their identity is only linked to superior performance and if that goes, you lose everything ( i.e. The Boobie Miles Principle) They go to a college, where they have no time allotted for a real education if it's a big program, where they constantly scrutinized and nitpicked and hailed heroes or failures before they are old enough to buy themselves a drink. Often they have to live on stipends that barely allow them to survive. They are surrounded by college football personnel that only want them to further their careers. And women hoping to get knocked up by the guy getting the next big signing bonus. This all happens typically BEFORE a prospect gets anywhere near the NFL draft. At the combine, the prospects are treated like cattle. Prodded, weighed, tested, forced to wear small uncomfortable clothing and "branded" with numbers. Their value consists of how far they fall from the eyes of perfection. And these players ONLY get there by committing to playing a violent game and to keep playing even if they get hurt. Individual teams hire their own investigators to supplement what the NFL provides. What do you think these guys do for a living? A skilled investigator will dig into your life. He will talk to your ex girlfriends, your former room mates, your former employers. He will talk to the liason police officer probably working on your campus and travels with the team. He will talk to your friends, your teachers, your pastor. That's the surface level stuff. He might also dig through your garbage, look through to see what books you've checked out, pull your credit card records, hack into your Facebook account, hack into your email account, look at your detailed cell phone records, hack into your Internet usage history, find out what kind of groceries you buy, get your entire family medical history, get your full medical history (esp the stuff people don't want to talk about), will hire someone to see how the prospect reacts under duress and on and on and on. How do you think it actually works? Information is power. Some of that sound dehumanizing to you? Does having someone dig through your trash sound normal to you? Do you think some team will give Sam Bradford 50 million dollars without wanting to know the answers to questions before the questions are asked? Then the prospects get to the pros where they are under constant stress about losing their jobs or getting injured, having to play hurt, deal with changing coaching regimes and anything the press wants to throw at them. They are tempted to take PEDs. They are constantly lied to by others wishing to further their own agendas. Are there perks? Sure, big dollars, whores and celebrity. But if you think this is the first time Dez Bryant or any other NFL prospect might have dehumanized in the pursuit of an NFL career, you might want to think again. Is it humanizing to know you can barely feel your shoulder and you can't sleep at night without wanting to scream in pain and your option is to play or risk losing your position to someone else and become the new Wally Pipp? But players do it all the time at the college and pro level. Tom Landry, a living legend in coaching, ended in Dallas tenure by being told abruptly that he was fired. He fell to the floor, an old man, and wept in front of his players. One of the most respected and successful coaches in NFL history. Was that dehumanizing to clip him that way? George Seifert was a good soldier, and a far far better defensive coordinator than many want to give him credit for. Spent years and years loyal to the 49ers. Got them 2 rings. Won a lot of games. Found out he was fired from watching a press conference. For a college coach. Was that dehumanizing? If you have a problem with how Dez Bryant was treated or not treated, then ask yourself how interesting the game might be to you if you took out all the dehumanizing elements of the NFL. Players would no longer player hurt. Not so fun when your favorite team is losing because quality players aren't in the game. More problematic players would slip through the system, more of your teams players would be suspended, thus possibly causing your favorite team to lose some games. There are just some jobs in life that you take that transcend being a career and are literally a way of life. Do you think cops aren't dehumanized when they are prospects? Potential doctors? Firefighters? Politicians? Special Forces soldiers? Most of you that are outraged are part of the much larger general fanbase that took part in the dehumanization of Dez Bryant and every other NFL prospect long before Jeff Ireland got to him or them. Most of you want to eat your steak, you just don't want to see the cow getting slaughtered for it. Sorry guys, sometimes to get your prime cut, you have to watch something bleed.

Okay. But I don't recall anyone but you calling that question dehumanizing.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Here's something no one has really brought up. Now, I don't know when Ireland asked this question but it sounds like it was pretty recent, perhaps even after Miami traded for Brandon Marshall.

If Miami already had Marshall, and they knew they weren't going to draft Dez Bryant unless he fell into the 2nd or 3rd round which was never going to happen...why did he waste time with an interview on a player they were never going to draft? ####s n giggles? His own personal kicks? Did Miami flip a coin to see who was gonna ask that question? Sounds like a guy that wanted to see what he could get away with.

If I were Roger Goodell I would come down on Ireland like a bag of bricks for this. Those saying Miami has a right or any NFL team has a right to do this and that...All NFL Teams should go overboard to get some background and research. ASk coaches, friends, teammates, whatever, but you can't ask that question directly. You can background, drug test, IQ, personality, but asking that question point blank is completely out of line.

Anyone saying Ireland wasn't the only GM doing this, fine but 2 wrongs don't make a right. I'm sure there were players who did things just as heinous as Big Ben this off season but they weren't caught.

Ireland should be punished the same as the players, but Goodell already has shown what he does with coaches and GMs when he docked BB $500,000 but no suspension. The Miami Dolphins should be docked $250,000 for asking that question, and Jeff Ireland should get a fine of at least $25,000 for asking the question. All money to go to a worthy charity down here in Maimi that can use the money.

 

[Brunell4MVP]

Out of curiosity, do we have the answer? Is she a prostitute?

 

[Dexter Manley]

Here's something no one has really brought up. Now, I don't know when Ireland asked this question but it sounds like it was pretty recent, perhaps even after Miami traded for Brandon Marshall. If Miami already had Marshall, and they knew they weren't going to draft Dez Bryant unless he fell into the 2nd or 3rd round which was never going to happen...why did he waste time with an interview on a player they were never going to draft? ####s n giggles? His own personal kicks? Did Miami flip a coin to see who was gonna ask that question? Sounds like a guy that wanted to see what he could get away with.If I were Roger Goodell I would come down on Ireland like a bag of bricks for this. Those saying Miami has a right or any NFL team has a right to do this and that...All NFL Teams should go overboard to get some background and research. ASk coaches, friends, teammates, whatever, but you can't ask that question directly. You can background, drug test, IQ, personality, but asking that question point blank is completely out of line. Anyone saying Ireland wasn't the only GM doing this, fine but 2 wrongs don't make a right. I'm sure there were players who did things just as heinous as Big Ben this off season but they weren't caught. Ireland should be punished the same as the players, but Goodell already has shown what he does with coaches and GMs when he docked BB $500,000 but no suspension. The Miami Dolphins should be docked $250,000 for asking that question, and Jeff Ireland should get a fine of at least $25,000 for asking the question. All money to go to a worthy charity down here in Maimi that can use the money.

He asked the question during the combine interview, not last week.

 

[Dexter Manley]

And those of you who don't think this was a job interview are way off base.

Each team can "interview" 30 different players at the combine. The purpose of these interviews is to help teams to determine whether or not they want to employ the guy they're interviewing. If that's not a job interview, I don't know what is.

 

[Futeki]

Out of curiosity, do we have the answer? Is she a prostitute?

Precisely. It was merely a yes/no question. He didn't call her a whore from what I understand. Ireland asked whether or his closest relative was involved with a specific illegal activity. That is perfectly acceptable for many occupations.Bryant apparently handled it well in the interview.By the way, assaulting the interviewer for asking a yes/no question would be criminal.

 

[Dexter Manley]

Out of curiosity, do we have the answer? Is she a prostitute?

Precisely. It was merely a yes/no question. He didn't call her a whore from what I understand. Ireland asked whether or his closest relative was involved with a specific illegal activity. That is perfectly acceptable for many occupations.

Bryant apparently handled it well in the interview.

By the way, assaulting the interviewer for asking a yes/no question would be criminal.

 

[PatsFanCT]

And those of you who don't think this was a job interview are way off base. Each team can "interview" 30 different players at the combine. The purpose of these interviews is to help teams to determine whether or not they want to employ the guy they're interviewing. If that's not a job interview, I don't know what is.

Job interview? The guy has a job in the NFL if he wants it. This was a personality test that is not unlike many other professional personality tests administered to ensure the person they want on their team is capable of handling the job. If he wants to be treated civil, then he can go apply for a job at a fast food restaurant where political correctness applies.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

And those of you who don't think this was a job interview are way off base. Each team can "interview" 30 different players at the combine. The purpose of these interviews is to help teams to determine whether or not they want to employ the guy they're interviewing. If that's not a job interview, I don't know what is.

So you're saying it was definitely a job interview even though there was no job, everyone knew there would be no job offer and there's no way of knowing if the team would ever be allowed to offer them a job in the future? Does that sound like a job interview to you?It's hard to think in terms of a traditional job application process with the NFL. It's different. There's a draft. There are limits to what companies can pay their staff (salary cap). In fact, is the NFL one employer or 32 separate employers? Is it legal that women are not allowed to participate? It's simply not the same. But if we had to find a similar event, I think it would be more like a meet-and-greet/job fair situation where no jobs are actually available yet, people are simply talking to each other and the meet-and-greet portion is an intense battery of tests and questions. But there are no actual jobs available at the combine. It's a function of the unique structure of professional sports, and not really comparable to the real world.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

Out of curiosity, do we have the answer? Is she a prostitute?

Precisely. It was merely a yes/no question. He didn't call her a whore from what I understand. Ireland asked whether or his closest relative was involved with a specific illegal activity. That is perfectly acceptable for many occupations.

Bryant apparently handled it well in the interview.

By the way, assaulting the interviewer for asking a yes/no question would be criminal.

Would it be acceptable if he were applying for a job with law enforcement? The FBI? Political office? What if his mother might have been involved with organized crime? Would THAT be a valid question for a pro sports team to ask about? If you don't think it's acceptable to ask whether a close relative is involved with specific legal activity, what would you say in those situations? Or would a swing be appropriate in all of them?

 

[PewterFan]

Skip Bayless agrees with you guys who think it wasnt out of line so at least you have that going for you

Crap! I change my vote.

 

[Dexter Manley]

And those of you who don't think this was a job interview are way off base. Each team can "interview" 30 different players at the combine. The purpose of these interviews is to help teams to determine whether or not they want to employ the guy they're interviewing. If that's not a job interview, I don't know what is.

So you're saying it was definitely a job interview even though there was no job, everyone knew there would be no job offer and there's no way of knowing if the team would ever be allowed to offer them a job in the future? Does that sound like a job interview to you?It's hard to think in terms of a traditional job application process with the NFL. It's different. There's a draft. There are limits to what companies can pay their staff (salary cap). In fact, is the NFL one employer or 32 separate employers? Is it legal that women are not allowed to participate? It's simply not the same. But if we had to find a similar event, I think it would be more like a meet-and-greet/job fair situation where no jobs are actually available yet, people are simply talking to each other and the meet-and-greet portion is an intense battery of tests and questions. But there are no actual jobs available at the combine. It's a function of the unique structure of professional sports, and not really comparable to the real world.

If you can't understand the simple fact that this was a job interview, I don't know what to tell you. What you just said is analogous to making up a convoluted argument that water isn't wet.

 

[massraider]

Out of curiosity, do we have the answer? Is she a prostitute?

Precisely. It was merely a yes/no question. He didn't call her a whore from what I understand. Ireland asked whether or his closest relative was involved with a specific illegal activity. That is perfectly acceptable for many occupations.

That sounds a lot better than asking someone if their mom was a hooker, doesn't it?The fact that people can argue in Ireland's defense here is further proof that people can argue about anything on the internet.

The guy was out of line, and apologized. It wasn't the end of the world that he asked it, but it was out of line, and pretty stupid. I mean, even he acknowledges that.

No one thinks it was anything but stupid, except a few fools on the internet.

 

[Dexter Manley]

Would it be acceptable if he were applying for a job with law enforcement? The FBI? Political office?

You're actually comparing the NFL to law enforement, the FBI, and politcal office? Really? Referencing political office here is especially mind blowing.

What if his mother might have been involved with organized crime?

She wasn't, so that's completely irrevlevant to this discussion.

Would THAT be a valid question for a pro sports team to ask about? If you don't think it's acceptable to ask whether a close relative is involved with specific legal activity, what would you say in those situations? Or would a swing be appropriate in all of them?

No, it wouldn't be appropriate in all of them and I'm not sure why you would infer I would think that.

 

[fatness]

And those of you who don't think this was a job interview are way off base. Each team can "interview" 30 different players at the combine. The purpose of these interviews is to help teams to determine whether or not they want to employ the guy they're interviewing. If that's not a job interview, I don't know what is.

Of course it was a job interview. Just look at all the contortions of language and logic people have to go through to say otherwise. I suppose if it wasn't a job interview then:* the Dolphins wanted to join Bryant's fan club?* the Dolphins just have a downhome folksy interest in Bryant's family?* knowing all the names of prostitutes is critical to running the wildcat?

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

And those of you who don't think this was a job interview are way off base. Each team can "interview" 30 different players at the combine. The purpose of these interviews is to help teams to determine whether or not they want to employ the guy they're interviewing. If that's not a job interview, I don't know what is.

So you're saying it was definitely a job interview even though there was no job, everyone knew there would be no job offer and there's no way of knowing if the team would ever be allowed to offer them a job in the future? Does that sound like a job interview to you?It's hard to think in terms of a traditional job application process with the NFL. It's different. There's a draft. There are limits to what companies can pay their staff (salary cap). In fact, is the NFL one employer or 32 separate employers? Is it legal that women are not allowed to participate? It's simply not the same. But if we had to find a similar event, I think it would be more like a meet-and-greet/job fair situation where no jobs are actually available yet, people are simply talking to each other and the meet-and-greet portion is an intense battery of tests and questions. But there are no actual jobs available at the combine. It's a function of the unique structure of professional sports, and not really comparable to the real world.

If you can't understand the simple fact that this was a job interview, I don't know what to tell you. What you just said is analogous to making up a convoluted argument that water isn't wet.

I suppose you're right. You don't know what to tell me. You didn't address the difference between the NFL (with a draft system, salary cap and gender bias) and a normal employment process. Until people understand the difference in the two systems, they will continue to mis-apply standards from one to the other.Water is always wet. Gender bias is illegal in employment practices-- unless the NFL does it? Perhaps you should consider why you exempt those rules yet try to enforce others. Maybe, like I said, it's not the same? How many job interviews do people go on where there is no job and everyone knows there will be no job offer?

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I didn't know that the interview took place at the Combine, that was great info Dexter. So now I want to use that info for some creative exploration. This will be a new TV reality show titled "As the League Turns".

Parcells: What happened on the interview? Did you ask him if his mom was a prostitute?

Ireland: Yeah, I asked it. He flinched, looked like he wanted to kill me with his eyes no matter what he thinks he did.

Parcells: I gotta have a Wideout we can count on...

Ireland: Want me to call Denver and find out how much its gonna cost?

Parcells: I already know what it costs. Dez is too risky, let's go get Marshall.

Ireland: I'll make the call.

 

[Jason Bourne]

I don't think its illegal to ask if your mom is a whore.

There is no protected group for "sons-of-#####es"

Really the only way you should over-react to this type of question is when your mom is a whore.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

Would it be acceptable if he were applying for a job with law enforcement? The FBI? Political office?

You're actually comparing the NFL to law enforement, the FBI, and politcal office? Really? Referencing political office here is especially mind blowing.

What if his mother might have been involved with organized crime?

She wasn't, so that's completely irrevlevant to this discussion.

Would THAT be a valid question for a pro sports team to ask about? If you don't think it's acceptable to ask whether a close relative is involved with specific legal activity, what would you say in those situations? Or would a swing be appropriate in all of them?

No, it wouldn't be appropriate in all of them and I'm not sure why you would infer I would think that.

The statement was:"Ireland asked whether or his closest relative was involved with a specific illegal activity. That is perfectly acceptable for many occupations."

I just gave you a number of occupations where that would be perfectly acceptable. So it's not irrelevant at all. If you disagree, feel free to say so. But I think you agree that they are acceptable in those cases. And you didn't answer the organized crime questions; I wonder if you think that would be acceptable. Is mafia acceptable but crack whore not acceptable?

And as far as the swing goes, I was referencing what others were saying about punching Ireland. Sorry to have included you erroneously.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

So you're saying it was definitely a job interview even though there was no job, everyone knew there would be no job offer and there's no way of knowing if the team would ever be allowed to offer them a job in the future? Does that sound like a job interview to you?

It doesn't matter if there was a job at the time of the interview or not. There was a potential job down the road. That makes it a job interview. Using your logic, a company could just bring in candidates with the disclaimer of "we don't have any jobs to fill right now, we just want to find out more about you" and proceed to ask a bunch of illegal questions.

You don't know if there was a potential job down the road. You don't even know if the Dolphins would have had a chance to "hire" him. And, to your example, if there are no jobs then it's not a job interview. In the real world that wouldn't happen. But the NFL is not the real world. It doesn't have an anti trust exemption but operates like it has one. People keep trying to compare the real world to the NFL and it doesn't compare at all. The draft system is nothing like a normal hiring process. Age and gender bias are cornerstones of professional sports. In the real world you couldn't have that. Should teams get a visit from the EEOC for fielding only young males? Of course not. I'm simply saying that what is "out of bounds" in the real world isn't necessarily so in professional sports. Illegal activity in one's family could lead a team to not want a certain player-- especially if comparable talents don't have that baggage. They're investing a lot and it matters. If (for purposes of speculation) his mother was a prostitute in a ring with ties to organized crime, would people feel differently about the question?It's fair to have the opinion that that particular question was out of bounds. But it's not fair to pretend the NFL is supposed to comply with employment practices we see in the real world.

 

[az_prof]

Well, is it a job interview if they can't offer you a job? Theoretically, the Rams would be the only team who could do that. Bryant could have been selected before the Dolphins even had a chance to draft him. It's likely that teams interview guys who end up not being available when they draft. Is it a job interview if everyone knows there's no job offer on the table and the person might not even be available to take the job if it ever existed, which it might not? "Drafts" and "interviews" don't normally go together in the normal work force.

I can't believe any reasonable person would consider this anything but a job interview. To try to claim that because some other team has an opportunity to hire him before they can is really facetious and would be laughed out of court. What is the purpose of the interview? To discuss the weather? To form a friendship? To create a charity group? No. To determine whether or not the company is interested in hiring this individual. Whether or not they get the chance to do so before someone else or not is not material. The purpose of the conversation is clearly to screen the potential employee as part of a job hiring process.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

Well, is it a job interview if they can't offer you a job? Theoretically, the Rams would be the only team who could do that. Bryant could have been selected before the Dolphins even had a chance to draft him. It's likely that teams interview guys who end up not being available when they draft. Is it a job interview if everyone knows there's no job offer on the table and the person might not even be available to take the job if it ever existed, which it might not? "Drafts" and "interviews" don't normally go together in the normal work force.

I can't believe any reasonable person would consider this anything but a job interview. To try to claim that because some other team has an opportunity to hire him before they can is really facetious and would be laughed out of court. What is the purpose of the interview? To discuss the weather? To form a friendship? To create a charity group? No. To determine whether or not the company is interested in hiring this individual. Whether or not they get the chance to do so before someone else or not is not material. The purpose of the conversation is clearly to screen the potential employee as part of a job hiring process.

The combine is a job fair more than anything else. Not a job interview. But I appreciate your "court" comment. If we view the NFL itself in the regular workforce, it does many things that could be brought up in court. And I'm sorry, but it's ABSOLUTELY material that there is no job, no job offer, and possibly no opportunity to ever have one for the prospect. In the real world, nobody would subject themselves to that kind of scrutiny at a glorified job fair. But there are no drafts in the real world. There's no salary cap in the real world. I understand the frustration with Ireland's question, but I'm a little surprised that so many football-knowledgeable people fail to understand the difference between professional sports and the regular job market. What you think of as a "job interview" doesn't really exist in the NFL. If a player is drafted and they don't like the employer, they can't just go work somewhere else. The team "owns" their rights to work at another company. Where else do we see that?

 

[Stinkin Ref]

I work at a community college....every single "job interview" that we have for full time employees includes a representative from HR (i can't think of their official name right now because I have been drinking)...but they are a rep of some sort and have some type of initials that mean basically "quality control"....that person sits there and their sole purpose is to take notes and make sure the interview committee does not deviate from the pre determined questions.....and if you want to ask a "follow up" or a "clarification" question, you have to get their approval before you can ask it.....

my point is...for that reason I do not see these meetings with the NFL players as official interviews....otherwise I guarantee the NFL would have one of those people who I can't remember their names sitting in on them and making sure this #### dont happen.....

word

 

[az_prof]

Well, is it a job interview if they can't offer you a job? Theoretically, the Rams would be the only team who could do that. Bryant could have been selected before the Dolphins even had a chance to draft him. It's likely that teams interview guys who end up not being available when they draft. Is it a job interview if everyone knows there's no job offer on the table and the person might not even be available to take the job if it ever existed, which it might not? "Drafts" and "interviews" don't normally go together in the normal work force.

I can't believe any reasonable person would consider this anything but a job interview. To try to claim that because some other team has an opportunity to hire him before they can is really facetious and would be laughed out of court. What is the purpose of the interview? To discuss the weather? To form a friendship? To create a charity group? No. To determine whether or not the company is interested in hiring this individual. Whether or not they get the chance to do so before someone else or not is not material. The purpose of the conversation is clearly to screen the potential employee as part of a job hiring process.

The combine is a job fair more than anything else. Not a job interview. But I appreciate your "court" comment. If we view the NFL itself in the regular workforce, it does many things that could be brought up in court. And I'm sorry, but it's ABSOLUTELY material that there is no job, no job offer, and possibly no opportunity to ever have one for the prospect. In the real world, nobody would subject themselves to that kind of scrutiny at a glorified job fair. But there are no drafts in the real world. There's no salary cap in the real world. I understand the frustration with Ireland's question, but I'm a little surprised that so many football-knowledgeable people fail to understand the difference between professional sports and the regular job market. What you think of as a "job interview" doesn't really exist in the NFL. If a player is drafted and they don't like the employer, they can't just go work somewhere else. The team "owns" their rights to work at another company. Where else do we see that?

What? They can't trade up to draft him? Why are they interviewing him if they have no chance to hire him? Your argument doesn't meet the minimum standard of believability. There is no reason to interview him and ask him any questions at all if you aren't considering him for employment.

 

[pollardsvision]

I go back and forth on this. Without knowing the context, it's almost impossible to really form an opinion. Was it out of the blue? Did he use a tone that suggested he was calling his mom a whore? Was it somehow a natural part of the conversation they were having (as hard that is to imagine).

I lean towards "it was way out of line" because I just can't come up with a good reason for it.

-Was it to gain information about Dez family background?

I don't buy that. It's common knowledge that Dez came from a really effed up family. Plenty of information available and Dez is open about it. If you're vetting a guy, knowing he has a crackhead mom should suffice for about all you need to know about his parental background. It's terrible. Knowing whether or not she ever exchanged sex for money seems irrelevant. Did Ireland also need to know how much she charged for which acts? Must be thorough right?

I don't buy that. Doesn't make sense for the question to be any sort of background information gathering question and I can't possibly imagine Ireland really cared what the answer was.

-Was he just trying to get a rise out of him to see how Bryant reacted?

That makes more sense. This, I think, is what the Ireland defenders think he was doing. Problem is, if you think that, you can't also say, "well, he was just asking a question!" We all know that's not really what he was doing. It's not "just a question" if you don't actually care about the answer.

There must be other ways to find out if a guy has a temper without dragging a man's mom and sex into it.

Would it be appropriate to ask Tim Tebow if his mother enjoys anal sechs?

I bet we'd learn alot about him by asking him that question. Hell, he's probably defended the God thing so many times, that's just rote by now. Wouldn't it make more sense to throw him a curve ball?

Just a question, right? If you might possibly pay a guy millions, you've got free reign, right?

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

Well, is it a job interview if they can't offer you a job? Theoretically, the Rams would be the only team who could do that. Bryant could have been selected before the Dolphins even had a chance to draft him. It's likely that teams interview guys who end up not being available when they draft. Is it a job interview if everyone knows there's no job offer on the table and the person might not even be available to take the job if it ever existed, which it might not? "Drafts" and "interviews" don't normally go together in the normal work force.

I can't believe any reasonable person would consider this anything but a job interview. To try to claim that because some other team has an opportunity to hire him before they can is really facetious and would be laughed out of court. What is the purpose of the interview? To discuss the weather? To form a friendship? To create a charity group? No. To determine whether or not the company is interested in hiring this individual. Whether or not they get the chance to do so before someone else or not is not material. The purpose of the conversation is clearly to screen the potential employee as part of a job hiring process.

The combine is a job fair more than anything else. Not a job interview. But I appreciate your "court" comment. If we view the NFL itself in the regular workforce, it does many things that could be brought up in court. And I'm sorry, but it's ABSOLUTELY material that there is no job, no job offer, and possibly no opportunity to ever have one for the prospect. In the real world, nobody would subject themselves to that kind of scrutiny at a glorified job fair. But there are no drafts in the real world. There's no salary cap in the real world. I understand the frustration with Ireland's question, but I'm a little surprised that so many football-knowledgeable people fail to understand the difference between professional sports and the regular job market. What you think of as a "job interview" doesn't really exist in the NFL. If a player is drafted and they don't like the employer, they can't just go work somewhere else. The team "owns" their rights to work at another company. Where else do we see that?

What? They can't trade up to draft him? Why are they interviewing him if they have no chance to hire him? Your argument doesn't meet the minimum standard of believability. There is no reason to interview him and ask him any questions at all if you aren't considering him for employment.

I think you're using a strawman argument. I said there was no job, no job offer and possibly no opportunity to ever have one. You've turned that into "no chance to hire him." I'm absolutely right. At the combine there is no job and no job offer. There is possibly no opportunity to ever have one. It strains credulity to imply it's a job interview in any sense that we use the word in the real world. We don't have drafts or salary caps. Companies can't discriminate based on age or gender. To imply that-- in this one instance-- the league has to all of a sudden adhere to real-world standards of "interview questions", while ignoring it so many other times is comical.Again, the hiring process in the NFL is so different from the real world, trying to shoehorn our experiences into it leads to this kind of mis-application. If the NFL was a regular business they wouldn't be allowed to ask that question-- or discriminate the way they do. Guess what? The NFL isn't a regular business. That shouldn't be difficult to accept.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

I go back and forth on this. Without knowing the context, it's almost impossible to really form an opinion. Was it out of the blue? Did he use a tone that suggested he was calling his mom a whore? Was it somehow a natural part of the conversation they were having (as hard that is to imagine).I lean towards "it was way out of line" because I just can't come up with a good reason for it.-Was it to gain information about Dez family background?I don't buy that. It's common knowledge that Dez came from a really effed up family. Plenty of information available and Dez is open about it. If you're vetting a guy, knowing he has a crackhead mom should suffice for about all you need to know about his parental background. It's terrible. Knowing whether or not she ever exchanged sex for money seems irrelevant. Did Ireland also need to know how much she charged for which acts? Must be thorough right?I don't buy that. Doesn't make sense for the question to be any sort of background information gathering question and I can't possibly imagine Ireland really cared what the answer was.-Was he just trying to get a rise out of him to see how Bryant reacted?That makes more sense. This, I think, is what the Ireland defenders think he was doing. Problem is, if you think that, you can't also say, "well, he was just asking a question!" We all know that's not really what he was doing. It's not "just a question" if you don't actually care about the answer. There must be other ways to find out if a guy has a temper without dragging a man's mom and sex into it.Would it be appropriate to ask Tim Tebow if his mother enjoys anal sechs?I bet we'd learn alot about him by asking him that question. Hell, he's probably defended the God thing so many times, that's just rote by now. Wouldn't it make more sense to throw him a curve ball? Just a question, right? If you might possibly pay a guy millions, you've got free reign, right?

If his mother is a crackhead prostitute (as a hypothetical), doesn't that affect his inner circle and the people who will be influencing him? Who has power and control over her? Could they "get" to Dez and somehow influence his performance on the field? It soudns remote, but I don't think NFL teams leave any stone unturned. If two players are similar, and one carries concerns about who influences him and the other doesn't...maybe that affects who they choose. And that choice could save or cost front-office jobs. It would be nice to say they might be more likely to give him a shot at overcoming his obstacles or some other feel-good story...but the league is a business. And its hiring practices do not (and do not have to) mirror the common experience outside professional sports.

 

[Jason Bourne]

I think we can all agree that the NFL teams that were considering Bryant did a thorough background check on him, and his family and friends.

Does anyone think a team should not perform background checks on potential hires? - If so, why?

So, if teams are going to be going around and asking everyone else whether Bryant's mom was a prostitute, why is taboo to go closer to the source and ask Bryant directly? Much of his mom's history had been publicly reported. This question would give you better insight into Bryant's relationship with his mom and/or her associates.

Some jobs require a greater degree of invasion of privacy - investing millions of dollars in a player is one of those jobs.

As for the Tebow question - I bet a lot of teams asked some direct questions about his religious beliefs - more so than a typical player.

If you are in this situation, and not asking tough questions, then you are not doing your job imo.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

I can't believe the play this is getting. I have no problem with the question at all.

 

[=Smackdown=]

I can't believe the play this is getting. I have no problem with the question at all.

Such as BS non-story. Slow times in the NFL these days - can someone please take Big Ben out a a pub crawl or something.

 

[pollardsvision]

I go back and forth on this. Without knowing the context, it's almost impossible to really form an opinion. Was it out of the blue? Did he use a tone that suggested he was calling his mom a whore? Was it somehow a natural part of the conversation they were having (as hard that is to imagine).

I lean towards "it was way out of line" because I just can't come up with a good reason for it.

-Was it to gain information about Dez family background?

I don't buy that. It's common knowledge that Dez came from a really effed up family. Plenty of information available and Dez is open about it. If you're vetting a guy, knowing he has a crackhead mom should suffice for about all you need to know about his parental background. It's terrible. Knowing whether or not she ever exchanged sex for money seems irrelevant. Did Ireland also need to know how much she charged for which acts? Must be thorough right?

I don't buy that. Doesn't make sense for the question to be any sort of background information gathering question and I can't possibly imagine Ireland really cared what the answer was.

-Was he just trying to get a rise out of him to see how Bryant reacted?

That makes more sense. This, I think, is what the Ireland defenders think he was doing. Problem is, if you think that, you can't also say, "well, he was just asking a question!" We all know that's not really what he was doing. It's not "just a question" if you don't actually care about the answer.

There must be other ways to find out if a guy has a temper without dragging a man's mom and sex into it.

Would it be appropriate to ask Tim Tebow if his mother enjoys anal sechs?

I bet we'd learn alot about him by asking him that question. Hell, he's probably defended the God thing so many times, that's just rote by now. Wouldn't it make more sense to throw him a curve ball?

Just a question, right? If you might possibly pay a guy millions, you've got free reign, right?

If his mother is a crackhead prostitute (as a hypothetical), doesn't that affect his inner circle and the people who will be influencing him? Who has power and control over her? Could they "get" to Dez and somehow influence his performance on the field? It soudns remote, but I don't think NFL teams leave any stone unturned. If two players are similar, and one carries concerns about who influences him and the other doesn't...maybe that affects who they choose. And that choice could save or cost front-office jobs. It would be nice to say they might be more likely to give him a shot at overcoming his obstacles or some other feel-good story...but the league is a business. And its hiring practices do not (and do not have to) mirror the common experience outside professional sports.

Absolutely. Here's what was perfectly clear to every person that follows football, without having to ask what Dez's mom will do for money: Dez comes from a horrible family background. His family and pretty much every one he knows will be a bad influence on him. Given his family background, it's almost a certainty that off-the-field issues will arise during his playing career.

We all knew that. It's common knowledge that his mom is/was a crackhead. I'm not sure why it would be important to Ireland to distinguish between crackhead and crackhead prostitute.

Like I said though, Ireland obviously wasn't really trying to gather background information. It's a little silly to think he was.