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Jerry Sandusky accused of child molestation (1 Viewer)

'Christo said:
'Tiny Dancer said:
'Christo said:
'The Future Champs said:
'Aaron Rudnicki said:
http://espn.go.com/espn/commentary/story/_/page/munson-111110a/here-how-penn-state-fix-football-culture

One remedy: Penn State without footballThese are desperate times for the university. They might require desperate measures.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Not that it matters to anyone, but I will support the BoT if they decide to shut the program down. My brother and I discussed this today (he's also an alum) and we're both ashamed of our school.
Click to expand...
What would be the purpose of shutting down the football program? If this had been a creative writing professor would they shut down the English department?
Click to expand...
It seems that only the football team had enough power in the university to keep this under wraps. The creative writing professor would have been in prison years ago. The purpose of shutting down the program, in theory, would be to diminish the importance of the football program such that it did not continue to have such out outsized role on campus. I'm doubtful that it would work, though.
Click to expand...
Several assumptions there.
Click to expand...
The real issue is that there were multiple incidents with Sandusky, and a lot of people decided for different reasons to look the other way. McQueary just took it to Paterno. Paterno phoned it in the AD. Curley and Schultz seem to have covered it up. The janitor in 2000, plus everyone he told about the incident, kept quiet. There's the mother of another boy who felt pressured to remain quiet. The 98 incident remains unclear, but surely there must have been something there. The number of people involved in different incidents is certain to rise in the next couple of weeks. Some might be duplicitous, merely seeking a quick payoff, but others will offer believable stories. Furthermore, there has to have been a lot of people who knew something was wrong with Sandusky, given the tightly knit social circles in State College.They might have feared for their jobs, their reputations, the football program. They might have been afraid they would be ostracized for their involvement in a scandal. The central fact is that it was Penn State Football that kept them silent, even if no one in the program itself took any action to quiet them. I'm blaming the institution for being so powerful, so omnipresent, that it warped the values of everyone around it. And that's the best case scenario here. It all adds up to one thing- shut down the program, and remind everyone that there are more important things in life than football.
 
'The Future Champs said:
The real issue is that there were multiple incidents with Sandusky, and a lot of people decided for different reasons to look the other way. McQueary just took it to Paterno. Paterno phoned it in the AD. Curley and Schultz seem to have covered it up. The janitor in 2000, plus everyone he told about the incident, kept quiet. There's the mother of another boy who felt pressured to remain quiet. The 98 incident remains unclear, but surely there must have been something there. The number of people involved in different incidents is certain to rise in the next couple of weeks. Some might be duplicitous, merely seeking a quick payoff, but others will offer believable stories. Furthermore, there has to have been a lot of people who knew something was wrong with Sandusky, given the tightly knit social circles in State College.

They might have feared for their jobs, their reputations, the football program. They might have been afraid they would be ostracized for their involvement in a scandal. The central fact is that it was Penn State Football that kept them silent, even if no one in the program itself took any action to quiet them. I'm blaming the institution for being so powerful, so omnipresent, that it warped the values of everyone around it. And that's the best case scenario here.

It all adds up to one thing- shut down the program, and remind everyone that there are more important things in life than football.
Click to expand...
Here is the problem with your blame Penn St football. The entire community kept quite and kept Sandusky protected. This was not just the football program or Penn St. You cannot hide this much abuse and not think that citizens in State College did not have an small idea of what was going on.We know the police, DA and other political heads knew about this in the late 90's and did nothing. And then he is a major player in Second Mile whose job is to help children! Yet they did not think of protecting those children that were part of the program. So while you can blame Penn St... we really need to put blame on the State College community for not protecting its children when there were flags everywhere!!
 
Well if nothing else comes out of this nightmare, maybe Pennsylvania and other states look to change the laws that make it mandatory to report to police child abuse.

 
'greenroom said:
'The Future Champs said:
The real issue is that there were multiple incidents with Sandusky, and a lot of people decided for different reasons to look the other way. McQueary just took it to Paterno. Paterno phoned it in the AD. Curley and Schultz seem to have covered it up. The janitor in 2000, plus everyone he told about the incident, kept quiet. There's the mother of another boy who felt pressured to remain quiet. The 98 incident remains unclear, but surely there must have been something there. The number of people involved in different incidents is certain to rise in the next couple of weeks. Some might be duplicitous, merely seeking a quick payoff, but others will offer believable stories. Furthermore, there has to have been a lot of people who knew something was wrong with Sandusky, given the tightly knit social circles in State College.

They might have feared for their jobs, their reputations, the football program. They might have been afraid they would be ostracized for their involvement in a scandal. The central fact is that it was Penn State Football that kept them silent, even if no one in the program itself took any action to quiet them. I'm blaming the institution for being so powerful, so omnipresent, that it warped the values of everyone around it. And that's the best case scenario here.

It all adds up to one thing- shut down the program, and remind everyone that there are more important things in life than football.
Click to expand...
Here is the problem with your blame Penn St football. The entire community kept quite and kept Sandusky protected. This was not just the football program or Penn St. You cannot hide this much abuse and not think that citizens in State College did not have an small idea of what was going on.We know the police, DA and other political heads knew about this in the late 90's and did nothing. And then he is a major player in Second Mile whose job is to help children! Yet they did not think of protecting those children that were part of the program. So while you can blame Penn St... we really need to put blame on the State College community for not protecting its children when there were flags everywhere!!
Click to expand...
I know that it may sound like splitting hairs but I really think the problem wasn't the football program per se. It was Paterno. That's why it spread to people outside the university and in the town, as you say. It was a idolatry of Paterno and all he personally stood for that kept people quiet. They didn't want to ruin his legacy or stain his reputation. I think most people familiar with Penn State agree that had Paterno been forced out in 2004, like the BOT intended, we would have heard about this sooner and more children would have been spared. But as he kept coaching and passing milestone wins, it became an all encompassing desire to keep him there and help him. Of course, the love and high opinion of Paterno on a personal level did help Penn State Football and the University in general. But this was really a big cover up to not sully Paterno of the horrible actions of his former coach and good friend. I know that people are calling for the football program to be disbanded and maybe that will happen. But I don't think that addresses what the real issue was here. The issue wasn't Penn State Football being above the law, where you would see multiple coverups of multiple coaches and players of multiple crimes. It was a coverup of one horrible monster for the sole sake of making one man, Paterno, continue to look like a saint. Now that Paterno is gone, I think the general problem of the coverups is solved, assuming they weed out everyone who knew and then put them on the stand so they get their just desserts. I don't care who the next coach is, even if it's a big name like Urban Meyer, which is unlikely. People aren't going to go back to covering up horrible crimes and sins. The program's reputation is in tatters and the man who made everyone do that is gone.

I like to think of Paterno in terms of the three Godfather movies. He has a plan and earns his power and adoration early. Then he has a long string of being in complete control of the program and having people do exactly what he planned. Then as the end came near, like Michael Corleone, he was a shell of himself and more of a figure head than anything, with people making decisions without his input and committing crimes in his name.

I think it's interesting to look at the rise and fall of Paterno in that context.

 
'ConstruxBoy said:
'greenroom said:
'The Future Champs said:
The real issue is that there were multiple incidents with Sandusky, and a lot of people decided for different reasons to look the other way. McQueary just took it to Paterno. Paterno phoned it in the AD. Curley and Schultz seem to have covered it up. The janitor in 2000, plus everyone he told about the incident, kept quiet. There's the mother of another boy who felt pressured to remain quiet. The 98 incident remains unclear, but surely there must have been something there. The number of people involved in different incidents is certain to rise in the next couple of weeks. Some might be duplicitous, merely seeking a quick payoff, but others will offer believable stories. Furthermore, there has to have been a lot of people who knew something was wrong with Sandusky, given the tightly knit social circles in State College.

They might have feared for their jobs, their reputations, the football program. They might have been afraid they would be ostracized for their involvement in a scandal. The central fact is that it was Penn State Football that kept them silent, even if no one in the program itself took any action to quiet them. I'm blaming the institution for being so powerful, so omnipresent, that it warped the values of everyone around it. And that's the best case scenario here.

It all adds up to one thing- shut down the program, and remind everyone that there are more important things in life than football.
Click to expand...
Here is the problem with your blame Penn St football. The entire community kept quite and kept Sandusky protected. This was not just the football program or Penn St. You cannot hide this much abuse and not think that citizens in State College did not have an small idea of what was going on.We know the police, DA and other political heads knew about this in the late 90's and did nothing. And then he is a major player in Second Mile whose job is to help children! Yet they did not think of protecting those children that were part of the program. So while you can blame Penn St... we really need to put blame on the State College community for not protecting its children when there were flags everywhere!!
Click to expand...
I know that it may sound like splitting hairs but I really think the problem wasn't the football program per se. It was Paterno. That's why it spread to people outside the university and in the town, as you say. It was a idolatry of Paterno and all he personally stood for that kept people quiet. They didn't want to ruin his legacy or stain his reputation. I think most people familiar with Penn State agree that had Paterno been forced out in 2004, like the BOT intended, we would have heard about this sooner and more children would have been spared. But as he kept coaching and passing milestone wins, it became an all encompassing desire to keep him there and help him. Of course, the love and high opinion of Paterno on a personal level did help Penn State Football and the University in general. But this was really a big cover up to not sully Paterno of the horrible actions of his former coach and good friend. I know that people are calling for the football program to be disbanded and maybe that will happen. But I don't think that addresses what the real issue was here. The issue wasn't Penn State Football being above the law, where you would see multiple coverups of multiple coaches and players of multiple crimes. It was a coverup of one horrible monster for the sole sake of making one man, Paterno, continue to look like a saint. Now that Paterno is gone, I think the general problem of the coverups is solved, assuming they weed out everyone who knew and then put them on the stand so they get their just desserts. I don't care who the next coach is, even if it's a big name like Urban Meyer, which is unlikely. People aren't going to go back to covering up horrible crimes and sins. The program's reputation is in tatters and the man who made everyone do that is gone.

I like to think of Paterno in terms of the three Godfather movies. He has a plan and earns his power and adoration early. Then he has a long string of being in complete control of the program and having people do exactly what he planned. Then as the end came near, like Michael Corleone, he was a shell of himself and more of a figure head than anything, with people making decisions without his input and committing crimes in his name.

I think it's interesting to look at the rise and fall of Paterno in that context.
Click to expand...
That's funny. I've been wondering when Don Paterno's going to have Sandusky whacked. Sandusky must know all kinds of crazy ####. No way they let that canary sing.He disappeared a district attorney off the face of the earth, so it shouldn't be a problem to make Sandusky's murder look like a suicide.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
'Billy Bats said:
Statement from Scott Paterno tonight....

Scott Paterno, son of ousted Pennsylvania State University football coach Joe Paterno, released this statement Friday night:

"I have been asked by my father to make a brief statement on his behalf.

"Like everyone who has watched this story unfold, my father is experiencing a range of powerful emotions. He is absolutely distraught over what happened to the children and their families. He also wants very much to speak publicly and answer questions.

"At this stage, however, he has no choice but to be patient and defer to the legal process. He cooperated fully with the grand jury, and he will continue to cooperate with the investigation as we move forward.

"On behalf of my father, I have retained Wick Sollers at the law firm of King & Spalding. My father's desire is for the truth to be uncovered, and he will work with his lawyers to that end. Mr. Sollers has directed my father, our family, and everyone associated with us to make no further public statements and to respond to no media inquiries. We will honor this request. Accordingly, all requests for comments or other information should be directed to Mr. Sollers."
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Paterno is "distraught" because his program was busted and his legacy is forever ruined (tarnished at best destroyed at worst). If he really felt that way he would have done something when it was first brought to his attention as said over and over again in this thread. At this point there's nothing he can say that will help his image at all.
 
'The Future Champs said:
'Christo said:
'Tiny Dancer said:
'Christo said:
'The Future Champs said:
'Aaron Rudnicki said:
http://espn.go.com/espn/commentary/story/_/page/munson-111110a/here-how-penn-state-fix-football-culture

One remedy: Penn State without footballThese are desperate times for the university. They might require desperate measures.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Not that it matters to anyone, but I will support the BoT if they decide to shut the program down. My brother and I discussed this today (he's also an alum) and we're both ashamed of our school.
Click to expand...
What would be the purpose of shutting down the football program? If this had been a creative writing professor would they shut down the English department?
Click to expand...
It seems that only the football team had enough power in the university to keep this under wraps. The creative writing professor would have been in prison years ago. The purpose of shutting down the program, in theory, would be to diminish the importance of the football program such that it did not continue to have such out outsized role on campus. I'm doubtful that it would work, though.
Click to expand...
Several assumptions there.
Click to expand...
The real issue is that there were multiple incidents with Sandusky, and a lot of people decided for different reasons to look the other way. McQueary just took it to Paterno. Paterno phoned it in the AD. Curley and Schultz seem to have covered it up. The janitor in 2000, plus everyone he told about the incident, kept quiet. There's the mother of another boy who felt pressured to remain quiet. The 98 incident remains unclear, but surely there must have been something there. The number of people involved in different incidents is certain to rise in the next couple of weeks. Some might be duplicitous, merely seeking a quick payoff, but others will offer believable stories. Furthermore, there has to have been a lot of people who knew something was wrong with Sandusky, given the tightly knit social circles in State College.They might have feared for their jobs, their reputations, the football program. They might have been afraid they would be ostracized for their involvement in a scandal. The central fact is that it was Penn State Football that kept them silent, even if no one in the program itself took any action to quiet them. I'm blaming the institution for being so powerful, so omnipresent, that it warped the values of everyone around it. And that's the best case scenario here. It all adds up to one thing- shut down the program, and remind everyone that there are more important things in life than football.
Click to expand...
And my point was, what if that had occurred in the English department? Would anyone even suggest shutting down the department? Or would they see this for what it is, one sick and several morally bankrupt individuals who unfortunately came together and need to be exorcised? Football wasn't the problem, it was the people in charge.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
'Christo said:
'The Future Champs said:
'Christo said:
'Tiny Dancer said:
'Christo said:
'The Future Champs said:
'Aaron Rudnicki said:
http://espn.go.com/e...ootball-culture

One remedy: Penn State without football

These are desperate times for the university. They might require desperate measures.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Not that it matters to anyone, but I will support the BoT if they decide to shut the program down. My brother and I discussed this today (he's also an alum) and we're both ashamed of our school.
Click to expand...
What would be the purpose of shutting down the football program? If this had been a creative writing professor would they shut down the English department?
Click to expand...
It seems that only the football team had enough power in the university to keep this under wraps. The creative writing professor would have been in prison years ago. The purpose of shutting down the program, in theory, would be to diminish the importance of the football program such that it did not continue to have such out outsized role on campus. I'm doubtful that it would work, though.
Click to expand...
Several assumptions there.
Click to expand...
The real issue is that there were multiple incidents with Sandusky, and a lot of people decided for different reasons to look the other way. McQueary just took it to Paterno. Paterno phoned it in the AD. Curley and Schultz seem to have covered it up. The janitor in 2000, plus everyone he told about the incident, kept quiet. There's the mother of another boy who felt pressured to remain quiet. The 98 incident remains unclear, but surely there must have been something there. The number of people involved in different incidents is certain to rise in the next couple of weeks. Some might be duplicitous, merely seeking a quick payoff, but others will offer believable stories. Furthermore, there has to have been a lot of people who knew something was wrong with Sandusky, given the tightly knit social circles in State College.They might have feared for their jobs, their reputations, the football program. They might have been afraid they would be ostracized for their involvement in a scandal. The central fact is that it was Penn State Football that kept them silent, even if no one in the program itself took any action to quiet them. I'm blaming the institution for being so powerful, so omnipresent, that it warped the values of everyone around it. And that's the best case scenario here.

It all adds up to one thing- shut down the program, and remind everyone that there are more important things in life than football.
Click to expand...
And my point was, what if that had occurred in the English department? Would anyone even suggest shutting down the department? Or would they see this for what it is, one sick and several morally bankrupt individuals who unfortunately came together and need to be exorcised? Football wasn't the problem, it was the people in charge.
Click to expand...
However, it was football that gave "the people in charge" the power to do what they did. If retired English professors had rock star status so that they could fly young boys to Shakespeare revivals, and if the head of the English department was the most powerful and well-paid man on campus, had 100,000 people showing up at his weekly seminar, had statues of him all over the campus and was worshipped by students and alumni, so that he could influence and limit investigations into criminal activity, was blindly followed by all the professors and TA's in the department and then allowed behavior like this in his department, then maybe the answer is "yeah, shut down the English Department." If that's where the sick and morally bankrupt people are, that's where the remedy has to be.To be clear, I DO NOT think shutting down the football program is the answer, but your argument is bogus based on the impossiblity of it being even remotely the same situation.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
'apalmer said:
'Christo said:
'The Future Champs said:
'Christo said:
'Tiny Dancer said:
'Christo said:
'The Future Champs said:
'Aaron Rudnicki said:
http://espn.go.com/e...ootball-culture

One remedy: Penn State without football

These are desperate times for the university. They might require desperate measures.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Not that it matters to anyone, but I will support the BoT if they decide to shut the program down. My brother and I discussed this today (he's also an alum) and we're both ashamed of our school.
Click to expand...
What would be the purpose of shutting down the football program? If this had been a creative writing professor would they shut down the English department?
Click to expand...
It seems that only the football team had enough power in the university to keep this under wraps. The creative writing professor would have been in prison years ago. The purpose of shutting down the program, in theory, would be to diminish the importance of the football program such that it did not continue to have such out outsized role on campus. I'm doubtful that it would work, though.
Click to expand...
Several assumptions there.
Click to expand...
The real issue is that there were multiple incidents with Sandusky, and a lot of people decided for different reasons to look the other way. McQueary just took it to Paterno. Paterno phoned it in the AD. Curley and Schultz seem to have covered it up. The janitor in 2000, plus everyone he told about the incident, kept quiet. There's the mother of another boy who felt pressured to remain quiet. The 98 incident remains unclear, but surely there must have been something there. The number of people involved in different incidents is certain to rise in the next couple of weeks. Some might be duplicitous, merely seeking a quick payoff, but others will offer believable stories. Furthermore, there has to have been a lot of people who knew something was wrong with Sandusky, given the tightly knit social circles in State College.They might have feared for their jobs, their reputations, the football program. They might have been afraid they would be ostracized for their involvement in a scandal. The central fact is that it was Penn State Football that kept them silent, even if no one in the program itself took any action to quiet them. I'm blaming the institution for being so powerful, so omnipresent, that it warped the values of everyone around it. And that's the best case scenario here.

It all adds up to one thing- shut down the program, and remind everyone that there are more important things in life than football.
Click to expand...
And my point was, what if that had occurred in the English department? Would anyone even suggest shutting down the department? Or would they see this for what it is, one sick and several morally bankrupt individuals who unfortunately came together and need to be exorcised? Football wasn't the problem, it was the people in charge.
Click to expand...
However, it was football that gave "the people in charge" the power to do what they did. If the head of the English department was the most powerful and well-paid man on campus, had 100,000 people showing up at his weekly seminar, had statues of him all over the campus and was worshipped by students and alumni, so that he could influence and limit investigations into criminal activity, was blindly followed by all the professors and TA's in the department and then allowed behavior like this in his department, and if retired English professors had rock star status so that they could fly young boys to Shakespeare revivals, then maybe the answer is "yeah, shut down the English Department." If that's where the sick and morally bankrupt people are, that's where the remedy has to be.To be clear, I DO NOT think shutting down the football program is the answer, but your argument is bogus based on the impossiblity of it being even remotely the same situation.
Click to expand...
:bs: The president of a large state university is powerful enough to cover up something like this without a football program.
 
'Christo said:
'apalmer said:
'Christo said:
'The Future Champs said:
'Christo said:
'Tiny Dancer said:
'Christo said:
'The Future Champs said:
'Aaron Rudnicki said:
http://espn.go.com/e...ootball-culture

One remedy: Penn State without football

These are desperate times for the university. They might require desperate measures.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Not that it matters to anyone, but I will support the BoT if they decide to shut the program down. My brother and I discussed this today (he's also an alum) and we're both ashamed of our school.
Click to expand...
What would be the purpose of shutting down the football program? If this had been a creative writing professor would they shut down the English department?
Click to expand...
It seems that only the football team had enough power in the university to keep this under wraps. The creative writing professor would have been in prison years ago. The purpose of shutting down the program, in theory, would be to diminish the importance of the football program such that it did not continue to have such out outsized role on campus. I'm doubtful that it would work, though.
Click to expand...
Several assumptions there.
Click to expand...
The real issue is that there were multiple incidents with Sandusky, and a lot of people decided for different reasons to look the other way. McQueary just took it to Paterno. Paterno phoned it in the AD. Curley and Schultz seem to have covered it up. The janitor in 2000, plus everyone he told about the incident, kept quiet. There's the mother of another boy who felt pressured to remain quiet. The 98 incident remains unclear, but surely there must have been something there. The number of people involved in different incidents is certain to rise in the next couple of weeks. Some might be duplicitous, merely seeking a quick payoff, but others will offer believable stories. Furthermore, there has to have been a lot of people who knew something was wrong with Sandusky, given the tightly knit social circles in State College.They might have feared for their jobs, their reputations, the football program. They might have been afraid they would be ostracized for their involvement in a scandal. The central fact is that it was Penn State Football that kept them silent, even if no one in the program itself took any action to quiet them. I'm blaming the institution for being so powerful, so omnipresent, that it warped the values of everyone around it. And that's the best case scenario here.

It all adds up to one thing- shut down the program, and remind everyone that there are more important things in life than football.
Click to expand...
And my point was, what if that had occurred in the English department? Would anyone even suggest shutting down the department? Or would they see this for what it is, one sick and several morally bankrupt individuals who unfortunately came together and need to be exorcised? Football wasn't the problem, it was the people in charge.
Click to expand...
However, it was football that gave "the people in charge" the power to do what they did. If the head of the English department was the most powerful and well-paid man on campus, had 100,000 people showing up at his weekly seminar, had statues of him all over the campus and was worshipped by students and alumni, so that he could influence and limit investigations into criminal activity, was blindly followed by all the professors and TA's in the department and then allowed behavior like this in his department, and if retired English professors had rock star status so that they could fly young boys to Shakespeare revivals, then maybe the answer is "yeah, shut down the English Department." If that's where the sick and morally bankrupt people are, that's where the remedy has to be.To be clear, I DO NOT think shutting down the football program is the answer, but your argument is bogus based on the impossiblity of it being even remotely the same situation.
Click to expand...
:bs: The president of a large state university is powerful enough to cover up something like this without a football program.
Click to expand...
You're pretty much in mx territory with your terrible attempt at comparing an English Dept to Joe Pa's football program.
 
'ConstruxBoy said:
'SHIZNITTTT said:
Well if nothing else comes out of this nightmare, maybe Pennsylvania and other states look to change the laws that make it mandatory to report to police child abuse.
Click to expand...
Absolutely. Should be in every state.
Click to expand...
I get that suspecting child abuse can be handled through proper channels. For one thing, the accusation alone can be damning, so it's better to have a quiet investigation before ruining lives. What I don't get is why witnessing a crime in action falls under the same rules. It's absurd to think that when witnessing a child getting raped, your only legal obligation is to report out to your superior.
 
'Christo said:
'apalmer said:
'Christo said:
'The Future Champs said:
'Christo said:
'Tiny Dancer said:
'Christo said:
'The Future Champs said:
'Aaron Rudnicki said:
http://espn.go.com/e...ootball-culture

One remedy: Penn State without football

These are desperate times for the university. They might require desperate measures.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Not that it matters to anyone, but I will support the BoT if they decide to shut the program down. My brother and I discussed this today (he's also an alum) and we're both ashamed of our school.
Click to expand...
What would be the purpose of shutting down the football program? If this had been a creative writing professor would they shut down the English department?
Click to expand...
It seems that only the football team had enough power in the university to keep this under wraps. The creative writing professor would have been in prison years ago. The purpose of shutting down the program, in theory, would be to diminish the importance of the football program such that it did not continue to have such out outsized role on campus. I'm doubtful that it would work, though.
Click to expand...
Several assumptions there.
Click to expand...
The real issue is that there were multiple incidents with Sandusky, and a lot of people decided for different reasons to look the other way. McQueary just took it to Paterno. Paterno phoned it in the AD. Curley and Schultz seem to have covered it up. The janitor in 2000, plus everyone he told about the incident, kept quiet. There's the mother of another boy who felt pressured to remain quiet. The 98 incident remains unclear, but surely there must have been something there. The number of people involved in different incidents is certain to rise in the next couple of weeks. Some might be duplicitous, merely seeking a quick payoff, but others will offer believable stories. Furthermore, there has to have been a lot of people who knew something was wrong with Sandusky, given the tightly knit social circles in State College.They might have feared for their jobs, their reputations, the football program. They might have been afraid they would be ostracized for their involvement in a scandal. The central fact is that it was Penn State Football that kept them silent, even if no one in the program itself took any action to quiet them. I'm blaming the institution for being so powerful, so omnipresent, that it warped the values of everyone around it. And that's the best case scenario here.

It all adds up to one thing- shut down the program, and remind everyone that there are more important things in life than football.
Click to expand...
And my point was, what if that had occurred in the English department? Would anyone even suggest shutting down the department? Or would they see this for what it is, one sick and several morally bankrupt individuals who unfortunately came together and need to be exorcised? Football wasn't the problem, it was the people in charge.
Click to expand...
However, it was football that gave "the people in charge" the power to do what they did. If the head of the English department was the most powerful and well-paid man on campus, had 100,000 people showing up at his weekly seminar, had statues of him all over the campus and was worshipped by students and alumni, so that he could influence and limit investigations into criminal activity, was blindly followed by all the professors and TA's in the department and then allowed behavior like this in his department, and if retired English professors had rock star status so that they could fly young boys to Shakespeare revivals, then maybe the answer is "yeah, shut down the English Department." If that's where the sick and morally bankrupt people are, that's where the remedy has to be.To be clear, I DO NOT think shutting down the football program is the answer, but your argument is bogus based on the impossiblity of it being even remotely the same situation.
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:bs: The president of a large state university is powerful enough to cover up something like this without a football program.
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He couldn't successfully cover it up with a football program. How could he do it without one? Besides, the issue isn't "Could", it's "Would".
 
'mad sweeney said:
You're pretty much in mx territory with your terrible attempt at comparing an English Dept to Joe Pa's football program.
Click to expand...
Cover ups happen all the time in all sorts of organizations. To think something like this could only happen in "JoPa's football program" is naive.
 
Either Penn State fans are really really late comers or there is going to be lots of empty seats.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
'Dragons said:
'ConstruxBoy said:
'SHIZNITTTT said:
Well if nothing else comes out of this nightmare, maybe Pennsylvania and other states look to change the laws that make it mandatory to report to police child abuse.
Click to expand...
Absolutely. Should be in every state.
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I get that suspecting child abuse can be handled through proper channels. For one thing, the accusation alone can be damning, so it's better to have a quiet investigation before ruining lives. What I don't get is why witnessing a crime in action falls under the same rules. It's absurd to think that when witnessing a child getting raped, your only legal obligation is to report out to your superior.
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I was dumbfounded to find out that people who work in a school setting didn't have a legal obligation to report even suspected abuse. As a healthcare worker I have always been told that it is my legal duty to report even suspected abuse to the proper authority. Whether that be DHS, or the police. If you report abuse the police still will have to their due diligence and not just rush in and arrest people. I agree the accusations of child abuse/rape are very damaging and even being acquitted can still never erase the stain of people thinking that you are a child rapist. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McMartin_preschool_trial
 
'Leeroy Jenkins said:
'Christo said:
'mad sweeney said:
You're pretty much in mx territory with your terrible attempt at comparing an English Dept to Joe Pa's football program.
Click to expand...
Cover ups happen all the time in all sorts of organizations. To think something like this could only happen in "JoPa's football program" is naive.
Click to expand...
:goodposting:Universities routinely cover up crimes on campus one way or another
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You using the word "routinely" and comparing this situation to other normal campus cover ups really makes it look like you haven't fully embraced the level of this situation.
 
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'Wadsworth said:
'Leeroy Jenkins said:
'Christo said:
'mad sweeney said:
You're pretty much in mx territory with your terrible attempt at comparing an English Dept to Joe Pa's football program.
Click to expand...
Cover ups happen all the time in all sorts of organizations. To think something like this could only happen in "JoPa's football program" is naive.
Click to expand...
:goodposting:Universities routinely cover up crimes on campus one way or another
Click to expand...
You the word "routinely" and comparing this situation to other normal campus cover ups really makes it look like you haven't fully embraced the level of this situation.
Click to expand...
:confused:Thats not true. But to say that on campus rapes, thefts, and violent crimes dont go unreported is ignorant. Ask hospital workers near colleges. Now thats not to say they all go uninvestigated, but things are often kept underwraps when students should be made aware for their safety for the sake of statistics and preventing panic from parents of students and prospective students.
 
'proninja said:
Seems odd, but I'm kind of pulling for the kids on the PSU football team today. None of this is their fault.
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For the players I want them to win. but there is a part of me that wants them to get destroyed because I just have this feeling we are going to see lots of "this win is for Joe" garbage.
 
Of course there is a football game. The calls I've read to "shut the football team down" and "shut the university down" are asinine.

The actions of four or five people don't reflect on the entire university, and especially not the kids. I'm pulling for Penn State today and I hope they do well for all the innocent Penn State fans.

 
Way too much "win one for Joe" and "Hey look at me" stuff going on. Just run on the field and play the damn game. It's not about Joe Paterno.

 
'Wadsworth said:
'Leeroy Jenkins said:
'Christo said:
'mad sweeney said:
You're pretty much in mx territory with your terrible attempt at comparing an English Dept to Joe Pa's football program.
Click to expand...
Cover ups happen all the time in all sorts of organizations. To think something like this could only happen in "JoPa's football program" is naive.
Click to expand...
:goodposting:Universities routinely cover up crimes on campus one way or another
Click to expand...
You using the word "routinely" and comparing this situation to other normal campus cover ups really makes it look like you haven't fully embraced the level of this situation.
Click to expand...
The "level of this situation" was created because of where it happened and who was involved. But that does not prove that a similar situation could not happen elsewhere on a college campus.
 
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