Jerry Sandusky accused of child molestation (5 Viewers)

[Fla\/\/ed]

Thanks. And yes, he deserves a hell of a lot of criticism. And there's something else here to remember: It's not tragic. It's not horrible. It's not comparable. But PSU fans and alumni are devastated by this. Devastated. Not just the fact that a man we "knew" to be a great coach on the field and a great figure off it, donating to the school, refusing to let players skate through classes, is now thought of as a horrible person that "everyone" is glad is dead. But that WE are associated with it. And always will be. And will always get #### from people about it. I have a bunch of PSU shirts that I used to wear to the gym and I seldom wear them anymore. The only one I actually wear is a maroon shirt with Penn State on the front in orange that was done as a tribute to the Virginia Tech shootings right after they happened. But this morning at the gym I saw a guy come in with a PSU football shirt. And the back said "Success with Honor" over and over again. And I thought, I sure hope no one here is a real life tough guy and jumps that guy because of that shirt and starts giving him #### about Paterno. And that's what we have to worry about it going forward. We're the largest dues-paying alumni association in the country. And we all have to watch our backs and what we say and how we cheer. Because there are some, possibly a lot, of people who think we did it. We enabled it. We cheered on Sandusky as he raped some kid in the shower. And that's sad. But I guess it's life. So try to give us a little bit of a break. We'd appreciate it.

There's a lot of people here and elsewhere who don't want to give you a break, because they're enjoying the fact that you're devastated about this. And they love sticking it to you.

Yeah, I see that. And I understand and don't take it personally. When you've had a lot of success, you make some enemies and people love to tear you down. And Penn State football has certainly had a ton of success and likely has a lot of enemies. It is what it is. And no, we're not all thin-skinned or anything. I think in general we want to try to correct some of the inaccuracies/sweeping statements about this scandal but we certainly are all angry/sad/hurt. Comes with the territory.

I think you're way more focused on Penn St football and Paterno than you are on the victims. You're coming across to me as blame anyone but Paterno here.

If I may interject to all these points, these two scenarios are not, ARE NOT mutually exclusive. Sandusky's opportunity was facilitated by access to the physical space, credibility and status and celebrity of PennState Football. That is not PSU's fault, this is a ******* taking advantage of all of those situations converging, in shepherding damaged children in a part of Pennsylvania and America where God, nearly in no uncertain terms, took a backseat to PSU football. It was bigger than big, it was life. And in so being, it was too big to fail. Of course, the rational person might say, this is a dopey football program, for whatever else gets assigned or attached to it, but when we let things like this get bigger than life, you can create in effect Gods among men. The persistent defense of Paterno by many shows this.

The reason you CAN'T separate these elements is because to an outsider, objective perspective, the reason Paterno DIDN'T act was at best to keep the PSU machine a rollin. At worst, it was to preserve his own legacy. I have my own thoughts as to his choices but I'll concede that the truth may be somewhat in between.

But lets not lose sight here, this is a man who was so tone deaf that he thought he was going to dictate terms at the end of this season. As the scope and depth created a national tidal wave, Joe Paterno focused on coaching football, seemingly oblivious to exactly what that culture has created. The fact that it was all bigger than life in great likelyhood informed the decisions of all these people.

The reason people focus on Paterno is because this behavior continued for AT LEAST another 10 years (depending on whether this was known in 1997 or 2001.

PSU and Paterno supporters, I can relate, being a Catholic. You really have two choices given our stained and sorry history as a church. You can blindly say that that these were the actions of a few sick priests, which is true, or you can reject the actions of the Catholic machine which has been absolutely a disgraceful embarassment in handling that situation. I have taken deliberate steps away form the church but I have not left it. That is not a solution. I can not and will not give up my church. In my own mind, I want to find a way to save it and change it. Of course, its a challenge against that machine so I still ponder it.

So in my personal opinion and to my personal standard, you don't have to give up on PSU or all that goes with it, but I think it is fair to say, you need to reject the establishment and more importantly, the culture of pedestalizing a person or a sport over individuals. This is not easy to do, I'll grant you, but is what needs to be done.

Fight for your school. But that doesn't mean fighting for a man who was stronger than anyone who chose not to fight for the weakest among us.

I agree in general with what you're saying. I don't think there is much more to say until more facts/evidence about cover ups come out. However I don't think you'll see PSU deifying any one else anytime soon. That's crazy. We see what it can cause. You may want to start working on fans of Alabama football or Duke basketball though. Those are the two programs most likely to fall into the same trap we did. Thanks to everyone for the good conversation and perspective.

You just don't get it.

 

[Smack Tripper]

Thanks. And yes, he deserves a hell of a lot of criticism. And there's something else here to remember: It's not tragic. It's not horrible. It's not comparable. But PSU fans and alumni are devastated by this. Devastated. Not just the fact that a man we "knew" to be a great coach on the field and a great figure off it, donating to the school, refusing to let players skate through classes, is now thought of as a horrible person that "everyone" is glad is dead. But that WE are associated with it. And always will be. And will always get #### from people about it. I have a bunch of PSU shirts that I used to wear to the gym and I seldom wear them anymore. The only one I actually wear is a maroon shirt with Penn State on the front in orange that was done as a tribute to the Virginia Tech shootings right after they happened. But this morning at the gym I saw a guy come in with a PSU football shirt. And the back said "Success with Honor" over and over again. And I thought, I sure hope no one here is a real life tough guy and jumps that guy because of that shirt and starts giving him #### about Paterno. And that's what we have to worry about it going forward. We're the largest dues-paying alumni association in the country. And we all have to watch our backs and what we say and how we cheer. Because there are some, possibly a lot, of people who think we did it. We enabled it. We cheered on Sandusky as he raped some kid in the shower. And that's sad. But I guess it's life. So try to give us a little bit of a break. We'd appreciate it.

There's a lot of people here and elsewhere who don't want to give you a break, because they're enjoying the fact that you're devastated about this. And they love sticking it to you.

Yeah, I see that. And I understand and don't take it personally. When you've had a lot of success, you make some enemies and people love to tear you down. And Penn State football has certainly had a ton of success and likely has a lot of enemies. It is what it is. And no, we're not all thin-skinned or anything. I think in general we want to try to correct some of the inaccuracies/sweeping statements about this scandal but we certainly are all angry/sad/hurt. Comes with the territory.

I think you're way more focused on Penn St football and Paterno than you are on the victims. You're coming across to me as blame anyone but Paterno here.

If I may interject to all these points, these two scenarios are not, ARE NOT mutually exclusive. Sandusky's opportunity was facilitated by access to the physical space, credibility and status and celebrity of PennState Football. That is not PSU's fault, this is a ******* taking advantage of all of those situations converging, in shepherding damaged children in a part of Pennsylvania and America where God, nearly in no uncertain terms, took a backseat to PSU football. It was bigger than big, it was life. And in so being, it was too big to fail. Of course, the rational person might say, this is a dopey football program, for whatever else gets assigned or attached to it, but when we let things like this get bigger than life, you can create in effect Gods among men. The persistent defense of Paterno by many shows this.

The reason you CAN'T separate these elements is because to an outsider, objective perspective, the reason Paterno DIDN'T act was at best to keep the PSU machine a rollin. At worst, it was to preserve his own legacy. I have my own thoughts as to his choices but I'll concede that the truth may be somewhat in between.

But lets not lose sight here, this is a man who was so tone deaf that he thought he was going to dictate terms at the end of this season. As the scope and depth created a national tidal wave, Joe Paterno focused on coaching football, seemingly oblivious to exactly what that culture has created. The fact that it was all bigger than life in great likelyhood informed the decisions of all these people.

The reason people focus on Paterno is because this behavior continued for AT LEAST another 10 years (depending on whether this was known in 1997 or 2001.

PSU and Paterno supporters, I can relate, being a Catholic. You really have two choices given our stained and sorry history as a church. You can blindly say that that these were the actions of a few sick priests, which is true, or you can reject the actions of the Catholic machine which has been absolutely a disgraceful embarassment in handling that situation. I have taken deliberate steps away form the church but I have not left it. That is not a solution. I can not and will not give up my church. In my own mind, I want to find a way to save it and change it. Of course, its a challenge against that machine so I still ponder it.

So in my personal opinion and to my personal standard, you don't have to give up on PSU or all that goes with it, but I think it is fair to say, you need to reject the establishment and more importantly, the culture of pedestalizing a person or a sport over individuals. This is not easy to do, I'll grant you, but is what needs to be done.

Fight for your school. But that doesn't mean fighting for a man who was stronger than anyone who chose not to fight for the weakest among us.

I agree in general with what you're saying. I don't think there is much more to say until more facts/evidence about cover ups come out. However I don't think you'll see PSU deifying any one else anytime soon. That's crazy. We see what it can cause. You may want to start working on fans of Alabama football or Duke basketball though. Those are the two programs most likely to fall into the same trap we did. Thanks to everyone for the good conversation and perspective.

I haven't been in this thread but is this a joke?

I respect the moment you're in here Construx, and I do think you've brought a relatively rationale presentation of your side, albeit if I think it to be an irrational position, but be that as it may.

You on one hand want all the facts and disclosure to come out on Joe Paterno and heaven forbid we so much as speculate on a dead man who can tell no tales. But yet in the same paragraph, you throw an unfounded, unmotivated barb at one program which has been, for any of K's flaws, relatively clean throughout from a conduct and compliance standpoint. Saban, meh, who knows about him, I don't feel as strong defending him, but to defend Alabama, Nick Saban is NOT bigger than that school. Had he been only an Alabama guy and had this success, quite possibly, but he's not beyond reproach. Granted he has leash.

I respect the pain of transition you're dealing with in this scenario and hopefully helping you to see a different perspective but good god those are giant bolders to throw around a glass shack. The right hand man of God himself in happy valley was diddling kids. That is not the problem of Duke or Alabama. I don't know if there is other stuff in this thread rooted in something as stupid which conference you root for but I can assure you, I have no dog in that fight.

And last thought, I agree that Penn State won't be deifying anyone new soon, because your comments make it apparent, you yourself are not done deifying JoePa yet.

 

[timschochet]

There are people here who are justifiably highly critical of Joe Paterno's role in this matter. They have been reasonable and thoughtful in their posts, and when they condemn Paterno, they apply logic and facts that are impossible to deny.

There are other people in this thread, who have been here since the beginning of this story, who are simply eager to take down Joe Paterno because they are gleeful to take down any revered person. They lay on thick rhetoric and are quick to condemn anyone who shows the slightest sympathy for Penn State or Paterno himself. They pepper their posts with insults, and their ultimate goal is not to defend the victims of child abuse, but to slur and condemn for the sake of slurring and condemning.

When you read posts in this thread you can usually tell the difference between the two types pretty quickly. Construx, Mario, and other defenders of PSU have probably come on too strong, but their posts are a reaction to the latter group and their recognition of the latter groups' purpose.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

Thanks. And yes, he deserves a hell of a lot of criticism. And there's something else here to remember: It's not tragic. It's not horrible. It's not comparable. But PSU fans and alumni are devastated by this. Devastated. Not just the fact that a man we "knew" to be a great coach on the field and a great figure off it, donating to the school, refusing to let players skate through classes, is now thought of as a horrible person that "everyone" is glad is dead. But that WE are associated with it. And always will be. And will always get #### from people about it. I have a bunch of PSU shirts that I used to wear to the gym and I seldom wear them anymore. The only one I actually wear is a maroon shirt with Penn State on the front in orange that was done as a tribute to the Virginia Tech shootings right after they happened. But this morning at the gym I saw a guy come in with a PSU football shirt. And the back said "Success with Honor" over and over again. And I thought, I sure hope no one here is a real life tough guy and jumps that guy because of that shirt and starts giving him #### about Paterno. And that's what we have to worry about it going forward. We're the largest dues-paying alumni association in the country. And we all have to watch our backs and what we say and how we cheer. Because there are some, possibly a lot, of people who think we did it. We enabled it. We cheered on Sandusky as he raped some kid in the shower. And that's sad. But I guess it's life. So try to give us a little bit of a break. We'd appreciate it.

There's a lot of people here and elsewhere who don't want to give you a break, because they're enjoying the fact that you're devastated about this. And they love sticking it to you.

Yeah, I see that. And I understand and don't take it personally. When you've had a lot of success, you make some enemies and people love to tear you down. And Penn State football has certainly had a ton of success and likely has a lot of enemies. It is what it is. And no, we're not all thin-skinned or anything. I think in general we want to try to correct some of the inaccuracies/sweeping statements about this scandal but we certainly are all angry/sad/hurt. Comes with the territory.

I think you're way more focused on Penn St football and Paterno than you are on the victims. You're coming across to me as blame anyone but Paterno here.

If I may interject to all these points, these two scenarios are not, ARE NOT mutually exclusive. Sandusky's opportunity was facilitated by access to the physical space, credibility and status and celebrity of PennState Football. That is not PSU's fault, this is a ******* taking advantage of all of those situations converging, in shepherding damaged children in a part of Pennsylvania and America where God, nearly in no uncertain terms, took a backseat to PSU football. It was bigger than big, it was life. And in so being, it was too big to fail. Of course, the rational person might say, this is a dopey football program, for whatever else gets assigned or attached to it, but when we let things like this get bigger than life, you can create in effect Gods among men. The persistent defense of Paterno by many shows this.

The reason you CAN'T separate these elements is because to an outsider, objective perspective, the reason Paterno DIDN'T act was at best to keep the PSU machine a rollin. At worst, it was to preserve his own legacy. I have my own thoughts as to his choices but I'll concede that the truth may be somewhat in between.

But lets not lose sight here, this is a man who was so tone deaf that he thought he was going to dictate terms at the end of this season. As the scope and depth created a national tidal wave, Joe Paterno focused on coaching football, seemingly oblivious to exactly what that culture has created. The fact that it was all bigger than life in great likelyhood informed the decisions of all these people.

The reason people focus on Paterno is because this behavior continued for AT LEAST another 10 years (depending on whether this was known in 1997 or 2001.

PSU and Paterno supporters, I can relate, being a Catholic. You really have two choices given our stained and sorry history as a church. You can blindly say that that these were the actions of a few sick priests, which is true, or you can reject the actions of the Catholic machine which has been absolutely a disgraceful embarassment in handling that situation. I have taken deliberate steps away form the church but I have not left it. That is not a solution. I can not and will not give up my church. In my own mind, I want to find a way to save it and change it. Of course, its a challenge against that machine so I still ponder it.

So in my personal opinion and to my personal standard, you don't have to give up on PSU or all that goes with it, but I think it is fair to say, you need to reject the establishment and more importantly, the culture of pedestalizing a person or a sport over individuals. This is not easy to do, I'll grant you, but is what needs to be done.

Fight for your school. But that doesn't mean fighting for a man who was stronger than anyone who chose not to fight for the weakest among us.

I agree in general with what you're saying. I don't think there is much more to say until more facts/evidence about cover ups come out. However I don't think you'll see PSU deifying any one else anytime soon. That's crazy. We see what it can cause. You may want to start working on fans of Alabama football or Duke basketball though. Those are the two programs most likely to fall into the same trap we did. Thanks to everyone for the good conversation and perspective.

I haven't been in this thread but is this a joke?

I respect the moment you're in here Construx, and I do think you've brought a relatively rationale presentation of your side, albeit if I think it to be an irrational position, but be that as it may.

You on one hand want all the facts and disclosure to come out on Joe Paterno and heaven forbid we so much as speculate on a dead man who can tell no tales. But yet in the same paragraph, you throw an unfounded, unmotivated barb at one program which has been, for any of K's flaws, relatively clean throughout from a conduct and compliance standpoint. Saban, meh, who knows about him, I don't feel as strong defending him, but to defend Alabama, Nick Saban is NOT bigger than that school. Had he been only an Alabama guy and had this success, quite possibly, but he's not beyond reproach. Granted he has leash.

I respect the pain of transition you're dealing with in this scenario and hopefully helping you to see a different perspective but good god those are giant bolders to throw around a glass shack. The right hand man of God himself in happy valley was diddling kids. That is not the problem of Duke or Alabama. I don't know if there is other stuff in this thread rooted in something as stupid which conference you root for but I can assure you, I have no dog in that fight.

And last thought, I agree that Penn State won't be deifying anyone new soon, because your comments make it apparent, you yourself are not done deifying JoePa yet.

To be honest I was just throwing out the two "biggest name" coaches that I could think of. I wasn't implying that there was anything wrong with them or their programs. I think you read a bit too much into it.ETA: Plus Coach K defended Paterno in the way he was fired on CNN the other night so it's not like I'd be ripping him on this subject, UNC fan or not.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

The reason people focus on Paterno is because this behavior continued for AT LEAST another 10 years (depending on whether this was known in 1997 or 2001.

The reason people focus on Paterno is because he's the only one involved in the child rape coverup who people attempt to defend. And I can't figure out why people attempt to defend him, one guy, over the rest of the guys who looked the other way when kids were getting raped

Well, at least in part I think because everyone else mentioned has either known it was a pattern of behavior (like Schultz, Curley and Spanier via emails and secret files) or have walked in on something suspicious (McQueary and some other coaches like Bradley and Ganter). So in the sense of what I would call direct knowledge of an incident or pattern of incidents, he's the easiest one to defend. In fact, really, he's the only one that can be defended on those grounds. So far. More evidence may come out that he know about 1998 or other incidents or that he himself walked into an uncomfortable situation with Sandusky and a kid. We just haven't heard any of that yet. We assume it. And of course, as I think most people realize, Paterno is now free reign for all the other accused men. He is dead and was well known to eschew email. So unless he kept a diary or something, Schultz, Curley, et.al. can get up in court and say that they told Paterno that Sandusky was raping kids and Paterno said Fine, just cover it up. There's nothing to dispute it. And let's be honest, at this point Schultz could tell the jury that Paterno told him the sky is green and grass is purple and I'm sure people would believe Schultz. That's how low public opinion is of Paterno right now, probably lower than anyone else other than Sandusky. Any way, clearly convincing anyone to wait for a little more evidence is not something that is going to happen on this board. It actually works a little better in person I think.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

There are people here who are justifiably highly critical of Joe Paterno's role in this matter. They have been reasonable and thoughtful in their posts, and when they condemn Paterno, they apply logic and facts that are impossible to deny. There are other people in this thread, who have been here since the beginning of this story, who are simply eager to take down Joe Paterno because they are gleeful to take down any revered person. They lay on thick rhetoric and are quick to condemn anyone who shows the slightest sympathy for Penn State or Paterno himself. They pepper their posts with insults, and their ultimate goal is not to defend the victims of child abuse, but to slur and condemn for the sake of slurring and condemning. When you read posts in this thread you can usually tell the difference between the two types pretty quickly. Construx, Mario, and other defenders of PSU have probably come on too strong, but their posts are a reaction to the latter group and their recognition of the latter groups' purpose.

Agreed and I try to just respond to the former group of posters and appreciate their reasonable discussions, even when they disagree with my point of view (which is pretty much all of the time, lol). And I don't really blame the latter group of posters. That's the way they feel and they are expressing it here which is fine. The only one I have on Ignore is Todd Andrews because he is just ridiculously over the top and it's not worth it to read. But the others are fine, if not worth the response, and most importantly, they MAY be right in everything they say. I just don't feel like we know enough yet.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

Happy Father's Day to everyone and I hope none of your children ever have to go through the things we discuss in this thread. I'm already formulating how to try to make sure my daughters never fall into the trap of a predator like Sandusky.

 

[fatness]

Paterno did what he could do.

People who are less famous, less wealthy, and in positions of less power have done more than he did in similar situations. They've called police to have them investigate. Of course, those lesser people didn't have the image of a football program to protect so that probably clouded their judgment.

 

[fatness]

Thanks. And yes, he deserves a hell of a lot of criticism. And there's something else here to remember: It's not tragic. It's not horrible. It's not comparable. But PSU fans and alumni are devastated by this. Devastated. Not just the fact that a man we "knew" to be a great coach on the field and a great figure off it, donating to the school, refusing to let players skate through classes, is now thought of as a horrible person that "everyone" is glad is dead. But that WE are associated with it. And always will be. And will always get #### from people about it.

That's a self-made problem by Penn State fans who are more concerned with the school's image than with serious things done wrong, and serious things not done, by people who worked at Penn State. By making Penn State's image the main issue and in the process minimizing what a slew of PS officials did not do to prevent child molestation and rape, those fans are choosing to be widely, and justifiably, criticized. Boo hoo.

When you've had a lot of success, you make some enemies and people love to tear you down. And Penn State football has certainly had a ton of success and likely has a lot of enemies.

Boo hoo.

 

[fatness]

I have a bunch of PSU shirts that I used to wear to the gym and I seldom wear them anymore. The only one I actually wear is a maroon shirt with Penn State on the front in orange that was done as a tribute to the Virginia Tech shootings right after they happened. But this morning at the gym I saw a guy come in with a PSU football shirt. And the back said "Success with Honor" over and over again. And I thought, I sure hope no one here is a real life tough guy and jumps that guy because of that shirt and starts giving him #### about Paterno.

A guy wears a shirt to the gym, doesn't get beat up, and you point to this as some sort of terrible evil awaiting countless people.In a topic about child rape.Good god.

 

[mad sweeney]

I have a bunch of PSU shirts that I used to wear to the gym and I seldom wear them anymore. The only one I actually wear is a maroon shirt with Penn State on the front in orange that was done as a tribute to the Virginia Tech shootings right after they happened. But this morning at the gym I saw a guy come in with a PSU football shirt. And the back said "Success with Honor" over and over again. And I thought, I sure hope no one here is a real life tough guy and jumps that guy because of that shirt and starts giving him #### about Paterno.

A guy wears a shirt to the gym, doesn't get beat up, and you point to this as some sort of terrible evil awaiting countless people.In a topic about child rape.Good god.

He very, very clearly made it clear that the degree of the situations (PSU grads vs the victims) are vastly different in scale, and he makes a good point about the future perception of PSU fans/grads/alumni etc.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Serious question -- Is there anybody out there who is NOT a Penn State fan/alumn who really thinks that Paterno didn't know about this and cover it up? In my casual reading about this case, it seems like Paterno's guilt is universally acknowledged by everybody except Penn State partisans.

I'm a PSU alum but see my post below yours. Knowing and actively covering up are different I think. I can't imagine how anyone could think he didn't know when he's testified about what McQueary told him.

That's actually a really nice post. It seems to me, though, that Paterno deserves bit of criticism that's been thrown his way if was a 3, and I agree with you that seems like the most likely scenario by far.

Thanks. And yes, he deserves a hell of a lot of criticism. And there's something else here to remember: It's not tragic. It's not horrible. It's not comparable. But PSU fans and alumni are devastated by this. Devastated. Not just the fact that a man we "knew" to be a great coach on the field and a great figure off it, donating to the school, refusing to let players skate through classes, is now thought of as a horrible person that "everyone" is glad is dead. But that WE are associated with it. And always will be. And will always get #### from people about it. I have a bunch of PSU shirts that I used to wear to the gym and I seldom wear them anymore. The only one I actually wear is a maroon shirt with Penn State on the front in orange that was done as a tribute to the Virginia Tech shootings right after they happened. But this morning at the gym I saw a guy come in with a PSU football shirt. And the back said "Success with Honor" over and over again. And I thought, I sure hope no one here is a real life tough guy and jumps that guy because of that shirt and starts giving him #### about Paterno. And that's what we have to worry about it going forward. We're the largest dues-paying alumni association in the country. And we all have to watch our backs and what we say and how we cheer. Because there are some, possibly a lot, of people who think we did it. We enabled it. We cheered on Sandusky as he raped some kid in the shower. And that's sad. But I guess it's life. So try to give us a little bit of a break. We'd appreciate it.

I definitely agree with you that anybody who gives Penn State alums grief over this (like they had any control over it) is a tool.

 

[identikit]

Serious question -- Is there anybody out there who is NOT a Penn State fan/alumn who really thinks that Paterno didn't know about this and cover it up? In my casual reading about this case, it seems like Paterno's guilt is universally acknowledged by everybody except Penn State partisans.

I'm a PSU alum but see my post below yours. Knowing and actively covering up are different I think. I can't imagine how anyone could think he didn't know when he's testified about what McQueary told him.

That's actually a really nice post. It seems to me, though, that Paterno deserves bit of criticism that's been thrown his way if was a 3, and I agree with you that seems like the most likely scenario by far.

Thanks. And yes, he deserves a hell of a lot of criticism. And there's something else here to remember: It's not tragic. It's not horrible. It's not comparable. But PSU fans and alumni are devastated by this. Devastated. Not just the fact that a man we "knew" to be a great coach on the field and a great figure off it, donating to the school, refusing to let players skate through classes, is now thought of as a horrible person that "everyone" is glad is dead. But that WE are associated with it. And always will be. And will always get #### from people about it. I have a bunch of PSU shirts that I used to wear to the gym and I seldom wear them anymore. The only one I actually wear is a maroon shirt with Penn State on the front in orange that was done as a tribute to the Virginia Tech shootings right after they happened. But this morning at the gym I saw a guy come in with a PSU football shirt. And the back said "Success with Honor" over and over again. And I thought, I sure hope no one here is a real life tough guy and jumps that guy because of that shirt and starts giving him #### about Paterno. And that's what we have to worry about it going forward. We're the largest dues-paying alumni association in the country. And we all have to watch our backs and what we say and how we cheer. Because there are some, possibly a lot, of people who think we did it. We enabled it. We cheered on Sandusky as he raped some kid in the shower. And that's sad. But I guess it's life. So try to give us a little bit of a break. We'd appreciate it.

I definitely agree with you that anybody who gives Penn State alums grief over this (like they had any control over it) is a tool.

Agree 100%.Though I don't think at this point it should even be on the radar when it comes to importance.

 

[fatness]

He very, very clearly made it clear that the degree of the situations (PSU grads vs the victims) are vastly different in scale, and he makes a good point about the future perception of PSU fans/grads/alumni etc.

He tried to create sympathy for Penn State fans by describing, poignantly, a situation he imagined. And made up some bull#### about all Penn State fans having to watch their backs, all because, gasp, someone might criticize them in public. If one of the witnesses in the Sandusky case could go through what Sandusky did to him, and go through getting bullied out of one high school by Penn State fans, and could go through testifying in tears on the stand last week, then I think Penn State fans can go through imagining that someone might criticize one of them in public.

 

[mad sweeney]

He very, very clearly made it clear that the degree of the situations (PSU grads vs the victims) are vastly different in scale, and he makes a good point about the future perception of PSU fans/grads/alumni etc.

He tried to create sympathy for Penn State fans by describing, poignantly, a situation he imagined. And made up some bull#### about all Penn State fans having to watch their backs, all because, gasp, someone might criticize them in public. If one of the witnesses in the Sandusky case could go through what Sandusky did to him, and go through getting bullied out of one high school by Penn State fans, and could go through testifying in tears on the stand last week, then I think Penn State fans can go through imagining that someone might criticize one of them in public.

Once again, he made it clear that it was nowhere near the degree of the victims and it's a valid concern that very few can understand.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

He very, very clearly made it clear that the degree of the situations (PSU grads vs the victims) are vastly different in scale, and he makes a good point about the future perception of PSU fans/grads/alumni etc.

He tried to create sympathy for Penn State fans by describing, poignantly, a situation he imagined. And made up some bull#### about all Penn State fans having to watch their backs, all because, gasp, someone might criticize them in public. If one of the witnesses in the Sandusky case could go through what Sandusky did to him, and go through getting bullied out of one high school by Penn State fans, and could go through testifying in tears on the stand last week, then I think Penn State fans can go through imagining that someone might criticize one of them in public.

Once again, he made it clear that it was nowhere near the degree of the victims and it's a valid concern that very few can understand.

Yeah, I thought I made that pretty clear too. Like I said, not worth trying to converse with some folks.

 

[timschochet]

There are people here who are justifiably highly critical of Joe Paterno's role in this matter. They have been reasonable and thoughtful in their posts, and when they condemn Paterno, they apply logic and facts that are impossible to deny.

There are other people in this thread, who have been here since the beginning of this story, who are simply eager to take down Joe Paterno because they are gleeful to take down any revered person. They lay on thick rhetoric and are quick to condemn anyone who shows the slightest sympathy for Penn State or Paterno himself. They pepper their posts with insults, and their ultimate goal is not to defend the victims of child abuse, but to slur and condemn for the sake of slurring and condemning.

When you read posts in this thread you can usually tell the difference between the two types pretty quickly. Construx, Mario, and other defenders of PSU have probably come on too strong, but their posts are a reaction to the latter group and their recognition of the latter groups' purpose.

Agreed and I try to just respond to the former group of posters and appreciate their reasonable discussions, even when they disagree with my point of view (which is pretty much all of the time, lol). And I don't really blame the latter group of posters. That's the way they feel and they are expressing it here which is fine. The only one I have on Ignore is Todd Andrews because he is just ridiculously over the top and it's not worth it to read. But the others are fine, if not worth the response, and most importantly, they MAY be right in everything they say. I just don't feel like we know enough yet.

I think the latter group (bolded) is certainly worthy of blame.

 

[Furious Styles]

When the Catholic church scandal broke the last thing I ever thought about was what people might say if I wore my cross. I also never gave any thought of the angst my fellow Catholics might have after they realized the Pope could have put a stop to the rape of kids but instead chose to protect the institution of the church.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

When the Catholic church scandal broke the last thing I ever thought about was what people might say if I wore my cross. I also never gave any thought of the angst my fellow Catholics might have after they realized the Pope could have put a stop to the rape of kids but instead chose to protect the institution of the church.

I have a confession to make (like that pun?): I honestly didn't follow the Catholic church scandal that closely at all, so I don't think I could engage in any intelligent conversation comparing it to the PSU situation. Sorry.

 

[mad sweeney]

When the Catholic church scandal broke the last thing I ever thought about was what people might say if I wore my cross. I also never gave any thought of the angst my fellow Catholics might have after they realized the Pope could have put a stop to the rape of kids but instead chose to protect the institution of the church.

There's a ginormous difference in scope and scale of the Catholic Church vs Penn State. Plus, not knowing numbers, there's another ginormous number of people who aren't Catholic that wear crosses while there is basically nobody wearing PSU stuff other than PSU fans/alumni/students. I'd be willing to bet that if someone wore a shirt from one of the Diocese(s?) in Boston or one of the other heavily targeted areas, there's a lot bigger chance that that person will feel a little weird about it. Seriously, you're talking about the biggest church in the world vs one school in one country. Not even close to comparable in this situation.

 

[Furious Styles]

I grew up in Mass, if you wore a cross in my area 99% chance you are Catholic. Not a whole lot of evangelicals in New England.

 

[mad sweeney]

I grew up in Mass, if you wore a cross in my area 99% chance you are Catholic. Not a whole lot of evangelicals in New England.

And?

 

[Furious Styles]

I grew up in Mass, if you wore a cross in my area 99% chance you are Catholic. Not a whole lot of evangelicals in New England.

And?

The comparison is pretty valid, obviously there are differences but in both instances kids were raped and it was covered up to save the reputation of the institution. Now, the Catholic church scandal was worse but when you are talking about the rape of children and subsequent cover up both are about as low as you can go. In my opinion, if you were a Catholic or a PSU alum, your only thoughts and concerns should be for the victims of these horrible tragedies.You seem to disagree and so be it.

 

[mad sweeney]

Why are we even talking about the poor beset upon people who must be careful where they wear their PSU sweatshirts? How is this even a conversation when little kids got raped? Why do we care? What does it matter?

Why shouldn't it matter. It's devastating to them and it's another angle to the story. They're victims in this as well. If we're talking about the damage done by this Monster and his enablers, they should be in the discussion.

 

[mad sweeney]

I grew up in Mass, if you wore a cross in my area 99% chance you are Catholic. Not a whole lot of evangelicals in New England.

And?

The comparison is pretty valid, obviously there are differences but in both instances kids were raped and it was covered up to save the reputation of the institution. Now, the Catholic church scandal was worse but when you are talking about the rape of children and subsequent cover up both are about as low as you can go. In my opinion, if you were a Catholic or a PSU alum, your only thoughts and concerns should be for the victims of these horrible tragedies.You seem to disagree and so be it.

I agree that they're very similar situations, but the difference between wearing a cross and wearing a PSU shirt are not similar.

 

[fatness]

This is who I feel sorry for. Not somebody wearing a Penn State t-shirt.

Victim One’s situation could be an indication of the media swarm that they could face. The now-18-year-old and his mother and siblings moved from their home when the charges were announced, but their new address got out. Their phones were ringing off the hook. There were knocks on the door at all hours of the night. Someone broke into their car to leave a business card on the front seat. It was a few days before the family realized that someone had leaked his name.

A family member of another alleged victim quit their job after being harassed at work because of the allegations.

Aside from Victim One, who was outed by someone close to him, bullied out of school and forced to move from his Clinton County home, the accusers have remained successfully shielded from the public since charges were filed against the former Penn State football legend and the scandal erupted in November.

link

Almost four years ago, he was outed in his own community as being the kid who falsely accused Jerry Sandusky. For three years, he kept his promise to investigators that he wouldn’t talk about the abuse he alleged he endured at the hands of a legend during his childhood.

Then, when Sandusky was charged — not just with molesting him, but also nine others — he was bullied out of school. Someone close to him gave his identity to the national media.

Midway through his senior year, he left his friends, his track team. He moved with his family to a new place and started at a new school.

High school became unbearable, especially after Joe Paterno was fired. Several people close to the district said students were not advised on how to handle the sudden media attention on their school or how to approach someone who might be involved. There was relentless bullying, his mom said. That week, Victim 1 changed schools.

The school district has not responded to repeated attempts, spanning back to November, by The Patriot-News to talk about some of the incidents alleged, except for one brief conversation the board president had with a reporter before a school board meeting in November.

Jack Peters said the district did a thorough investigation and was “very comfortable” with how the school handled the situation. He said he couldn’t comment further because the situation related to a minor. Kelly Hastings, the district superintendent, refused to talk to a reporter when approached at the same school board meeting and hasn’t returned calls since. None of the nine board members, or the district solicitor, would comment.

link

 

[Todd Andrews]

This is who I feel sorry for. Not somebody wearing a Penn State t-shirt.

Victim One’s situation could be an indication of the media swarm that they could face. The now-18-year-old and his mother and siblings moved from their home when the charges were announced, but their new address got out. Their phones were ringing off the hook. There were knocks on the door at all hours of the night. Someone broke into their car to leave a business card on the front seat. It was a few days before the family realized that someone had leaked his name.

A family member of another alleged victim quit their job after being harassed at work because of the allegations.

Aside from Victim One, who was outed by someone close to him, bullied out of school and forced to move from his Clinton County home, the accusers have remained successfully shielded from the public since charges were filed against the former Penn State football legend and the scandal erupted in November.

link

Almost four years ago, he was outed in his own community as being the kid who falsely accused Jerry Sandusky. For three years, he kept his promise to investigators that he wouldn’t talk about the abuse he alleged he endured at the hands of a legend during his childhood.

Then, when Sandusky was charged — not just with molesting him, but also nine others — he was bullied out of school. Someone close to him gave his identity to the national media.

Midway through his senior year, he left his friends, his track team. He moved with his family to a new place and started at a new school.

High school became unbearable, especially after Joe Paterno was fired. Several people close to the district said students were not advised on how to handle the sudden media attention on their school or how to approach someone who might be involved. There was relentless bullying, his mom said. That week, Victim 1 changed schools.

The school district has not responded to repeated attempts, spanning back to November, by The Patriot-News to talk about some of the incidents alleged, except for one brief conversation the board president had with a reporter before a school board meeting in November.

Jack Peters said the district did a thorough investigation and was “very comfortable” with how the school handled the situation. He said he couldn’t comment further because the situation related to a minor. Kelly Hastings, the district superintendent, refused to talk to a reporter when approached at the same school board meeting and hasn’t returned calls since. None of the nine board members, or the district solicitor, would comment.

link

Timschochet thinks people who call Paterno a child rapist enabler are the bad guys in this story.

 

[ScottNorwood]

Who posted in: Jerry Sandusky accused of child molestation

Member name Posts

CrossEyed 417

Aaron Rudnicki 237

ConstruxBoy 212

Joe Summer 159

Leeroy Jenkins 157

mad sweeney 126

B-Deep 122

AmosMoses 119

Parrothead 114

Todd Andrews 94

Christo 90

Sinn Fein 83

Chase Stuart 80

proninja 79

 

[Billy Bats]

Not that the interview wasn't bad enough, apparently there was more to the interview that Sandusky had with Bob Costas that wasn't aired by NBC.

Sandusky possibly said: "Well I didn't go around seeking out every young person for sexual needs that I've helped."

Colin Cowherd's podcast at 1:55

 

[Jutz]

Why are we even talking about the poor beset upon people who must be careful where they wear their PSU sweatshirts? How is this even a conversation when little kids got raped? Why do we care? What does it matter?

I wear a PSU lanyard at work every day. Whenever people bring up Sandusky I tell them that I am still proud of my school.PSU provided me with an education that allowed me to obtain a job in a field I enjoy. This job allows me to save money for retirement and my daughters education. PSU provided me with some of the best times of my life. Football was involved in some of those good times, but most of these memories had to do with the people I met, and lived with while at PSU. People seem to think PSU begins and ends with the football program, but for the people that actually went there, it is much more then that.

PSU's reputation is suffering right now and the way I see it is they need the support of their alumni now more than any time in their history and I am glad to provide that support. PSU is widely known by those that did not attend for their football program, but there is an actual school there where people get an education, which to me is much more important then a football program.

I do feel horrible for the victims and what they went through, but PSU does not begin and end with the football program. There is much more to it than that. Yes, those that support PSU by wearing PSU gear right now do get questioned, but I for one am happy to field those questions and defend my school for everything it has provided me regardless of the terrible mistakes made in this cover up.

 

[-jb-]

Why are we even talking about the poor beset upon people who must be careful where they wear their PSU sweatshirts? How is this even a conversation when little kids got raped? Why do we care? What does it matter?

Why shouldn't it matter. It's devastating to them and it's another angle to the story. They're victims in this as well. If we're talking about the damage done by this Monster and his enablers, they should be in the discussion.

They're victims the same way people that miss their connecting flights are victims due to a plane crash.

 

[roarlions]

Why are we even talking about the poor beset upon people who must be careful where they wear their PSU sweatshirts? How is this even a conversation when little kids got raped? Why do we care? What does it matter?

I wear a PSU lanyard at work every day. Whenever people bring up Sandusky I tell them that I am still proud of my school.PSU provided me with an education that allowed me to obtain a job in a field I enjoy. This job allows me to save money for retirement and my daughters education. PSU provided me with some of the best times of my life. Football was involved in some of those good times, but most of these memories had to do with the people I met, and lived with while at PSU. People seem to think PSU begins and ends with the football program, but for the people that actually went there, it is much more then that.

PSU's reputation is suffering right now and the way I see it is they need the support of their alumni now more than any time in their history and I am glad to provide that support. PSU is widely known by those that did not attend for their football program, but there is an actual school there where people get an education, which to me is much more important then a football program.

I do feel horrible for the victims and what they went through, but PSU does not begin and end with the football program. There is much more to it than that. Yes, those that support PSU by wearing PSU gear right now do get questioned, but I for one am happy to field those questions and defend my school for everything it has provided me regardless of the terrible mistakes made in this cover up.

 

[General Malaise]

Why are we even talking about the poor beset upon people who must be careful where they wear their PSU sweatshirts? How is this even a conversation when little kids got raped? Why do we care? What does it matter?

I wear a PSU lanyard at work every day. Whenever people bring up Sandusky I tell them that I am still proud of my school.PSU provided me with an education that allowed me to obtain a job in a field I enjoy. This job allows me to save money for retirement and my daughters education. PSU provided me with some of the best times of my life. Football was involved in some of those good times, but most of these memories had to do with the people I met, and lived with while at PSU. People seem to think PSU begins and ends with the football program, but for the people that actually went there, it is much more then that.

PSU's reputation is suffering right now and the way I see it is they need the support of their alumni now more than any time in their history and I am glad to provide that support. PSU is widely known by those that did not attend for their football program, but there is an actual school there where people get an education, which to me is much more important then a football program.

I do feel horrible for the victims and what they went through, but PSU does not begin and end with the football program. There is much more to it than that. Yes, those that support PSU by wearing PSU gear right now do get questioned, but I for one am happy to field those questions and defend my school for everything it has provided me regardless of the terrible mistakes made in this cover up.

In reading about the treatment of the victims a few posts up, can you elaborate as to why they are not receiving any support from this school or community and are instead being bullied and ostracized? I'm a little lost here. Haven't the victimes suffered enough? Why the continuation to torture them?

 

[Jutz]

Why are we even talking about the poor beset upon people who must be careful where they wear their PSU sweatshirts? How is this even a conversation when little kids got raped? Why do we care? What does it matter?

I wear a PSU lanyard at work every day. Whenever people bring up Sandusky I tell them that I am still proud of my school.PSU provided me with an education that allowed me to obtain a job in a field I enjoy. This job allows me to save money for retirement and my daughters education. PSU provided me with some of the best times of my life. Football was involved in some of those good times, but most of these memories had to do with the people I met, and lived with while at PSU. People seem to think PSU begins and ends with the football program, but for the people that actually went there, it is much more then that.

PSU's reputation is suffering right now and the way I see it is they need the support of their alumni now more than any time in their history and I am glad to provide that support. PSU is widely known by those that did not attend for their football program, but there is an actual school there where people get an education, which to me is much more important then a football program.

I do feel horrible for the victims and what they went through, but PSU does not begin and end with the football program. There is much more to it than that. Yes, those that support PSU by wearing PSU gear right now do get questioned, but I for one am happy to field those questions and defend my school for everything it has provided me regardless of the terrible mistakes made in this cover up.

In reading about the treatment of the victims a few posts up, can you elaborate as to why they are not receiving any support from this school or community and are instead being bullied and ostracized? I'm a little lost here. Haven't the victimes suffered enough? Why the continuation to torture them?

I can't speak to why certian individuals are handling the situation poorly, however; PSU did give 1.1 million to fund a new abuse research center LINK. Not everyone is going to handle the situation correctly, but I would imagine there are numerous people in the community doing the right thing now.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Defense witness: http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8066976/penn-state-nittany-lions-jerry-sandusky-defense-witness-tells-other-coaches-kids-showers

I'm convinced.

 

[Billy Bats]

Why are we even talking about the poor beset upon people who must be careful where they wear their PSU sweatshirts? How is this even a conversation when little kids got raped? Why do we care? What does it matter?

I wear a PSU lanyard at work every day. Whenever people bring up Sandusky I tell them that I am still proud of my school.PSU provided me with an education that allowed me to obtain a job in a field I enjoy. This job allows me to save money for retirement and my daughters education. PSU provided me with some of the best times of my life. Football was involved in some of those good times, but most of these memories had to do with the people I met, and lived with while at PSU. People seem to think PSU begins and ends with the football program, but for the people that actually went there, it is much more then that.

PSU's reputation is suffering right now and the way I see it is they need the support of their alumni now more than any time in their history and I am glad to provide that support. PSU is widely known by those that did not attend for their football program, but there is an actual school there where people get an education, which to me is much more important then a football program.

I do feel horrible for the victims and what they went through, but PSU does not begin and end with the football program. There is much more to it than that. Yes, those that support PSU by wearing PSU gear right now do get questioned, but I for one am happy to field those questions and defend my school for everything it has provided me regardless of the terrible mistakes made in this cover up.

Says the guy with JoePa as his avatar.

 

[roarlions]

In reading about the treatment of the victims a few posts up, can you elaborate as to why they are not receiving any support from this school or community and are instead being bullied and ostracized? I'm a little lost here. Haven't the victimes suffered enough? Why the continuation to torture them?

If you are talking about the reports regarding Victim 1 above, the treatment he received was from people in his high school and local community, not anyone at PSU. There are a lot of people in PA who support the PSU football program without ever attending the university. Their actions are terrible, but at least in some cases they were motivated by the harm that the scandal would bring to their own high school, not to PSU.

 

[BroncoFreak_2K3]

Defense witness: http://espn.go.com/c...es-kids-showers

I'm convinced.

So, the first witness called by the defense after prosecutors rested their case was named **** huh? interesting.

 

[Smack Tripper]

Why are we even talking about the poor beset upon people who must be careful where they wear their PSU sweatshirts? How is this even a conversation when little kids got raped? Why do we care? What does it matter?

I wear a PSU lanyard at work every day. Whenever people bring up Sandusky I tell them that I am still proud of my school.PSU provided me with an education that allowed me to obtain a job in a field I enjoy. This job allows me to save money for retirement and my daughters education. PSU provided me with some of the best times of my life. Football was involved in some of those good times, but most of these memories had to do with the people I met, and lived with while at PSU. People seem to think PSU begins and ends with the football program, but for the people that actually went there, it is much more then that.

PSU's reputation is suffering right now and the way I see it is they need the support of their alumni now more than any time in their history and I am glad to provide that support. PSU is widely known by those that did not attend for their football program, but there is an actual school there where people get an education, which to me is much more important then a football program.

I do feel horrible for the victims and what they went through, but PSU does not begin and end with the football program. There is much more to it than that. Yes, those that support PSU by wearing PSU gear right now do get questioned, but I for one am happy to field those questions and defend my school for everything it has provided me regardless of the terrible mistakes made in this cover up.

Says the guy with JoePa as his avatar.

My thoughts exactly.

And I can appreciate that this a tough situation, but in the best of times, in "good" times, PSUers proudly proclaimed that Joe has BUILT this school in the sleepy hills of Western PA. I don't think you can really dispute that athletic success made the school a more attractive and thus more competitive destination for students, thus theoretically generating a better class of students.

I don't know that PSU ends with football but it can be certainly argued that it started with it, which has no doubt clouded the entire situation for all those linked to it.

I do wonder, what kind of message would it have sent and how much differently might this whole situation be perceived if they would have canceled the rest of the football season last year? It might not mean anything, but it would have showed an appreciation of the gravity of the situation. I think that act of defiance showed just how big football is at the school

 

[Jutz]

Why are we even talking about the poor beset upon people who must be careful where they wear their PSU sweatshirts? How is this even a conversation when little kids got raped? Why do we care? What does it matter?

I wear a PSU lanyard at work every day. Whenever people bring up Sandusky I tell them that I am still proud of my school.PSU provided me with an education that allowed me to obtain a job in a field I enjoy. This job allows me to save money for retirement and my daughters education. PSU provided me with some of the best times of my life. Football was involved in some of those good times, but most of these memories had to do with the people I met, and lived with while at PSU. People seem to think PSU begins and ends with the football program, but for the people that actually went there, it is much more then that.

PSU's reputation is suffering right now and the way I see it is they need the support of their alumni now more than any time in their history and I am glad to provide that support. PSU is widely known by those that did not attend for their football program, but there is an actual school there where people get an education, which to me is much more important then a football program.

I do feel horrible for the victims and what they went through, but PSU does not begin and end with the football program. There is much more to it than that. Yes, those that support PSU by wearing PSU gear right now do get questioned, but I for one am happy to field those questions and defend my school for everything it has provided me regardless of the terrible mistakes made in this cover up.

Says the guy with JoePa as his avatar.

My thoughts exactly.

And I can appreciate that this a tough situation, but in the best of times, in "good" times, PSUers proudly proclaimed that Joe has BUILT this school in the sleepy hills of Western PA. I don't think you can really dispute that athletic success made the school a more attractive and thus more competitive destination for students, thus theoretically generating a better class of students.

I don't know that PSU ends with football but it can be certainly argued that it started with it, which has no doubt clouded the entire situation for all those linked to it.

I do wonder, what kind of message would it have sent and how much differently might this whole situation be perceived if they would have canceled the rest of the football season last year? It might not mean anything, but it would have showed an appreciation of the gravity of the situation. I think that act of defiance showed just how big football is at the school

I don't deny any of that. Yes, the situation is clouded now. Yes, in the past I would proudly proclaim that Joepa built the school in the sleepy hills of CENTRAL PA (not Western). Yes, football did make the school a more competitive destination for students. Yes, PSU did start with football... but at the same time.Football started at PSU way before Joepa ever got there, and will continue long after he is gone. Joepa always preached to his athletes that acedemics come first. Joepa did essentially build the school (let's say he brought it to national prominence). That has not changed, we just are not be able to 'proudly' proclaim that anymore. All the other things I mentioned that I am thankful for regarding my education and time spent there are still true, and I do not feel like a victim at all given the situation.

 

[Tom Hagen]

Defense witness: http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8066976/penn-state-nittany-lions-jerry-sandusky-defense-witness-tells-other-coaches-kids-showers

I'm convinced.

So they are basing the defense on "we all showered with young boys" One question for the FFA lawyers. Amendola is trying to use the fact that some of the victims hired attorneys against them. In a case this high profile, wouldn't it make sense to hire an attorney to look out for your best interests. Is it really that unusual?

 

[Joe Summer]

Defense witness: http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8066976/penn-state-nittany-lions-jerry-sandusky-defense-witness-tells-other-coaches-kids-showers

I'm convinced.

So they are basing the defense on "we all showered with young boys"

This defense might make sense if Sandusky was ONLY charged with improperly showering with young boys. But Sandusky is also charged with RAPING little boys. So I'm not sure what the defense is trying to say here. It's like a reverse SAT question or something.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

I've stayed out of this one, but I agree that there's a certain amount of glee in the JoePA(-) posting that seems a bit odd.

On the other hand you have a guy who made his bones preaching about doing the right thing the right way in a program that edged up against 'holier than thou' who, by his own admission, didn't do enough to stop children from being raped by someone on his staff.

And most neutral observers have reached the conclusion from his/PSU's treatment of Sandusky that he had to know something was up. No way does the University take those steps without Paterno understanding why. Yet he didn't take the lead or feel any particular responsibility to protect the children in the community.

I don't think Paterno's the devil -- I think it's a lot easier for people to say they'd have done something different than it actually is to do it when it's in front of you -- and that lots of well-meaning people would have made the same choices he did because they thought the problem had been swept under the rug.

But that's just not good enough when you're something of a moral crusader and one of the most powerful people in your state.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Defense witness: http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8066976/penn-state-nittany-lions-jerry-sandusky-defense-witness-tells-other-coaches-kids-showers

I'm convinced.

So they are basing the defense on "we all showered with young boys" One question for the FFA lawyers. Amendola is trying to use the fact that some of the victims hired attorneys against them. In a case this high profile, wouldn't it make sense to hire an attorney to look out for your best interests. Is it really that unusual?

No, it isn't. Amendola's been doing a pretty abysmal job overall.

 

[mad sweeney]

This is who I feel sorry for. Not somebody wearing a Penn State t-shirt.

Victim One’s situation could be an indication of the media swarm that they could face. The now-18-year-old and his mother and siblings moved from their home when the charges were announced, but their new address got out. Their phones were ringing off the hook. There were knocks on the door at all hours of the night. Someone broke into their car to leave a business card on the front seat. It was a few days before the family realized that someone had leaked his name.

A family member of another alleged victim quit their job after being harassed at work because of the allegations.

Aside from Victim One, who was outed by someone close to him, bullied out of school and forced to move from his Clinton County home, the accusers have remained successfully shielded from the public since charges were filed against the former Penn State football legend and the scandal erupted in November.

link

Almost four years ago, he was outed in his own community as being the kid who falsely accused Jerry Sandusky. For three years, he kept his promise to investigators that he wouldn’t talk about the abuse he alleged he endured at the hands of a legend during his childhood.

Then, when Sandusky was charged — not just with molesting him, but also nine others — he was bullied out of school. Someone close to him gave his identity to the national media.

Midway through his senior year, he left his friends, his track team. He moved with his family to a new place and started at a new school.

High school became unbearable, especially after Joe Paterno was fired. Several people close to the district said students were not advised on how to handle the sudden media attention on their school or how to approach someone who might be involved. There was relentless bullying, his mom said. That week, Victim 1 changed schools.

The school district has not responded to repeated attempts, spanning back to November, by The Patriot-News to talk about some of the incidents alleged, except for one brief conversation the board president had with a reporter before a school board meeting in November.

Jack Peters said the district did a thorough investigation and was “very comfortable” with how the school handled the situation. He said he couldn’t comment further because the situation related to a minor. Kelly Hastings, the district superintendent, refused to talk to a reporter when approached at the same school board meeting and hasn’t returned calls since. None of the nine board members, or the district solicitor, would comment.

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Everybody does. You want a medal? Maybe you're not capable of it but I can feel sorry for more than one person at a time.

 

[mad sweeney]

Who posted in: Jerry Sandusky accused of child molestationMember name PostsCrossEyed 417Aaron Rudnicki 237ConstruxBoy 212Joe Summer 159Leeroy Jenkins 157mad sweeney 126B-Deep 122AmosMoses 119Parrothead 114Todd Andrews 94Christo 90Sinn Fein 83Chase Stuart 80proninja 79

No Hustler?

 

[Chaka]

Are people really concerned for the well being of those who might choose to wear Penn State logoed items?

 

[fatness]

Defense witness: http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8066976/penn-state-nittany-lions-jerry-sandusky-defense-witness-tells-other-coaches-kids-showers

I'm convinced.

So they are basing the defense on "we all showered with young boys"

Part of the defense, yeah.Apparently Penn State football has been somewhat weird about showers. This letter was written in November 2011.

In 1987, Joe Paterno was the reigning Sports Illustrated Sportsman of the Year and national championship coach when I landed what I thought was a dream job on his staff as a low-ranking graduate assistant. The players and the State College community were exceptional. I worked with many great athletes, including All-American Steve Wisniewski, who now coaches the Oakland Raiders with my offensive line coach from Brown University, Bob Wylie.

I played and coached at Brown and had a few NFL tryouts. I also had a unique high school football experience. I co-captained the top-ranked team in New Jersey and was a three-year starter on three undefeated state championship teams. My mother succumbed to melanoma during my senior high school season. I was recruited by all the Ivies and service academies, and I received several Division I scholarship offers.

I am also a survivor of early childhood sexual abuse. My family was in crisis, and a perp neighbor, feigning concern, directed his assault on me when I was 10. I was fortunate. I grew early, stopped the predator and got help. But the three years of trauma took a toll. I continue to work with a specialist to remain grounded, to receive joy in life and to help others overcome trauma and loss.

I pursued coaching out of college to help kids like my high school coach, Ted Monica. My involvement in sports and good coaches helped me realize my potential and to overcome adversity.

I worked on the other side of the ball from Jerry Sandusky, but found him very talented with kids, albeit a bit more grabby and touchy with the many young boys surrounding him and his nonprofit program, The Second Mile. It appeared he had boundary issues. Memories of this now make my stomach queasy. I never observed Sandusky committing sexual misconduct during my year and a half at Penn State.

In addition to power and control dynamics among the staff and Paterno’s powerful presence in the community, a crazy tradition at Penn State was the coaches showered together after each practice and game. We never did this at Brown or at the University of Rhode Island, and my coaching friends never experienced this on their staffs.

After a few practices, I decided to shower at home. It was one of the many things at Penn State that made me realize there was something strange about the program and its staff.

 

[fatness]

Everybody does. You want a medal? Maybe you're not capable of it but I can feel sorry for more than one person at a time.

OK. You feel sorry for the kid Sandusky allegedly raped. And you feel sorry for the Penn State fans who bullied him out of his high school once his name was made public. Unless you're telling me they're Alabama fans or something.

 

[fatness]

Prosecutors rested their case after calling their 21st witness, the mother of so-called Victim 9, a recent high school graduate who testified last week that Sandusky raped him in the basement of the coach's suburban home.

The woman said her son told her that Sandusky called him late one night after the first round of charges were filed in November, asking if he would be a character witness. "He said that Jerry asked him to make an affidavit or some kind of statement on what kind of character or person he was," she said. "Why would he call my kid after he's being accused of things like this?"

In December, prosecutors brought more charges against Sandusky, alleging he'd had forced anal sex with the boy. Victim 9's mother said the boy's laundry would often be short of underwear and he would claim he had thrown it away because he had an accident. Last week, the teen said Sandusky forced him to have anal sex that made him bleed.

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