Jerry Sandusky accused of child molestation (1 Viewer)

[fatness]

Defense witness.

Defense witness **** Anderson, a former assistant football coach at Penn State, testified this morning at the Jerry Sandusky sex abuse trial that it was not uncommon for boys to shower with coaches at the university.

Anderson, under cross-examination by prosecutor Joe McGettigan, said he has taken showers with boys at Penn State and the YMCA. The admission appeared to stun McGettigan, who asked if Anderson had ever hugged the kids. The coach said he hadn't.

"There would be coaches in and out of the showers while Jerry was there with kids," Anderson said.

Anderson coached at Penn State for 34 years, concentrating on the offensive line. Anderson said he might see the need to have a child spend the night at a hotel with a coach "for emotional support if I felt it to be necessary."

Another defense witness.

Later, when former coach Booker T. Brooks took the stand, he too said showering with children was a common and accepted practice. “Even before I became a coach. As a youngster in Akron, Ohio, I went to summer camps sponsored by the YMCA and showered with adult men who were not relatives of mine all the time,” Brooks said. “Since I’m a grandfather, I take my grandchild to the local YMCA and since she’s not old enough to go into a room by herself, we shower together. I put dry clothes on her. That’s common.”

On cross-examination, McGettigan gave Brooks a hypothetical: If a man took his 9-year-old grandson to a shower and hugged him, would he find that strange.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

I've stayed out of this one, but I agree that there's a certain amount of glee in the JoePA(-) posting that seems a bit odd.On the other hand you have a guy who made his bones preaching about doing the right thing the right way in a program that edged up against 'holier than thou' who, by his own admission, didn't do enough to stop children from being raped by someone on his staff. And most neutral observers have reached the conclusion from his/PSU's treatment of Sandusky that he had to know something was up. No way does the University take those steps without Paterno understanding why. Yet he didn't take the lead or feel any particular responsibility to protect the children in the community.I don't think Paterno's the devil -- I think it's a lot easier for people to say they'd have done something different than it actually is to do it when it's in front of you -- and that lots of well-meaning people would have made the same choices he did because they thought the problem had been swept under the rug.But that's just not good enough when you're something of a moral crusader and one of the most powerful people in your state.

Nice post.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

Are people really concerned for the well being of those who might choose to wear Penn State logoed items?

I was trying to add some more depth to the discussion we were having at the time. In retrospect, it was a poor analogy. Sorry.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Are people really concerned for the well being of those who might choose to wear Penn State logoed items?

Everybody's crucifying Construx over this comment, but I don't think it takes a lot of imagination to see that he has a point. Take your favorite team. Now imagine that something happened to make your team a social pariah -- not like the Saints bounty scandal, but a million times worse. You'd probably feel like you had something taken away from you.Of course, the person who deserves the blame for this is Paterno and Penn State officials. They're the ones who brought ignominy to their institution. But that doesn't change the fact that Penn State fans/alums have been made worse off as a result of all this.

 

[Joe Summer]

Perhaps it's boys because he had access to boys? Men and girls don't normally shower together; men and boys often do.

WAIT, WHAT?????Where is this going on?

Apparently it's a common practice at Penn State and the YMCA.

 

[JZilla]

Weird ####. I grew up in bassackwards yokel country and I never heard of anybody showering with a grown ### man

 

[JZilla]

I think even the Holy See is shocked and appalled at some of this behavior

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Defense witness.

Defense witness **** Anderson, a former assistant football coach at Penn State, testified this morning at the Jerry Sandusky sex abuse trial that it was not uncommon for boys to shower with coaches at the university.

Anderson, under cross-examination by prosecutor Joe McGettigan, said he has taken showers with boys at Penn State and the YMCA. The admission appeared to stun McGettigan, who asked if Anderson had ever hugged the kids. The coach said he hadn't.

"There would be coaches in and out of the showers while Jerry was there with kids," Anderson said.

Anderson coached at Penn State for 34 years, concentrating on the offensive line. Anderson said he might see the need to have a child spend the night at a hotel with a coach "for emotional support if I felt it to be necessary."

Another defense witness.

Later, when former coach Booker T. Brooks took the stand, he too said showering with children was a common and accepted practice. “Even before I became a coach. As a youngster in Akron, Ohio, I went to summer camps sponsored by the YMCA and showered with adult men who were not relatives of mine all the time,” Brooks said. “Since I’m a grandfather, I take my grandchild to the local YMCA and since she’s not old enough to go into a room by herself, we shower together. I put dry clothes on her. That’s common.”

On cross-examination, McGettigan gave Brooks a hypothetical: If a man took his 9-year-old grandson to a shower and hugged him, would he find that strange.

Amendola is woefully incompetent.

 

[CrossEyed]

So is a conviction a foregone conclusion at this point? Or is the potential influence of PSU on the jury pool still a possible out for this pathetic excuse of a man?

 

[Good Posting Judge]

So is a conviction a foregone conclusion at this point? Or is the potential influence of PSU on the jury pool still a possible out for this pathetic excuse of a man?

A buddy of mine who did practice as a criminal defense lawyer for six years (including a few fairly high-profile guys) says Sandusky is "toast."

 

[CrossEyed]

So is a conviction a foregone conclusion at this point? Or is the potential influence of PSU on the jury pool still a possible out for this pathetic excuse of a man?

A buddy of mine who did practice as a criminal defense lawyer for six years (including a few fairly high-profile guys) says Sandusky is "toast."

I hope he's right.

 

[Chaka]

Are people really concerned for the well being of those who might choose to wear Penn State logoed items?

Everybody's crucifying Construx over this comment, but I don't think it takes a lot of imagination to see that he has a point. Take your favorite team. Now imagine that something happened to make your team a social pariah -- not like the Saints bounty scandal, but a million times worse. You'd probably feel like you had something taken away from you.Of course, the person who deserves the blame for this is Paterno and Penn State officials. They're the ones who brought ignominy to their institution. But that doesn't change the fact that Penn State fans/alums have been made worse off as a result of all this.

Sure but I'm not concerned for their well being.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

So is a conviction a foregone conclusion at this point?

You'd hope but after seeing Clemens get off on the perjury charges anything is possible.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

So is a conviction a foregone conclusion at this point? Or is the potential influence of PSU on the jury pool still a possible out for this pathetic excuse of a man?

A buddy of mine who did practice as a criminal defense lawyer for six years (including a few fairly high-profile guys) says Sandusky is "toast."

So they can give him the chair???

 

[HughHoney]

I was about to type, if Sandusky walks the jurors will need to move outta town, but in this instance they might need to stay right where they're at and never leave.

 

[fatness]

Breaking news.

 

[timschochet]

Jutz, I appreciate a lot of what you write, and actually agree with some of it.

However, your continued use of Paterno as your avatar at this point seems in very poor taste.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Jutz, I appreciate a lot of what you write, and actually agree with some of it. However, your continued use of Paterno as your avatar at this point seems in very poor taste.

The guy in your avatar cracked up a car with his child (and others) in it, while high on heroin.

 

[Chaka]

Jutz, I appreciate a lot of what you write, and actually agree with some of it. However, your continued use of Paterno as your avatar at this point seems in very poor taste.

The guy in your avatar cracked up a car with his child (and others) in it, while high on heroin.

Ted Danson did that?

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Jutz, I appreciate a lot of what you write, and actually agree with some of it. However, your continued use of Paterno as your avatar at this point seems in very poor taste.

The guy in your avatar cracked up a car with his child (and others) in it, while high on heroin.

Ted Danson did that?

Yes.

 

[mad sweeney]

Everybody does. You want a medal? Maybe you're not capable of it but I can feel sorry for more than one person at a time.

OK. You feel sorry for the kid Sandusky allegedly raped. And you feel sorry for the Penn State fans who bullied him out of his high school once his name was made public. Unless you're telling me they're Alabama fans or something.

No idea what you're talking about, bhy would I feel bad for people who are being #######s whatever they're wearing? Pretty stupid reach on your part.

 

[mad sweeney]

Why are we even talking about the poor beset upon people who must be careful where they wear their PSU sweatshirts? How is this even a conversation when little kids got raped? Why do we care? What does it matter?

Why shouldn't it matter. It's devastating to them and it's another angle to the story. They're victims in this as well. If we're talking about the damage done by this Monster and his enablers, they should be in the discussion.

They're victims the same way people that miss their connecting flights are victims due to a plane crash.

Yeah, not really. Let's see how many stupid scenarios people can come up with.

 

[Jutz]

Jutz, I appreciate a lot of what you write, and actually agree with some of it. However, your continued use of Paterno as your avatar at this point seems in very poor taste.

Paterno did a whole lot of really good things in his lifetime and one really bad thing. Mcquery admitted that he severely toned down what he told Paterno due to his advanced age. Paterno should have done more, but in the end he did follow 'the book' so to speak. When asked about the situation by the media he didn't make excuses or deflect. He admitted he should have done more. He faced the accusations and didn't hide from the media. I dont agree with what he diidn't do, but I respect how he handled himself. As a previous poster said, I don't think Paterno is the devil, and I think it's easy, in hindsight to sit back and say you would have done the right thing... but none of us really know. I choose to appreciate the man for all the good things he did for every player that passed through his program, all the $ he raised for charity, and for demanding his players put education first. This scandal greatly tarnishes Paternos legacy, but let's not forget all the good he has done in his lifetime. So #### you Tim. I'm not changing it.

 

[pantherclub]

Jutz, I appreciate a lot of what you write, and actually agree with some of it. However, your continued use of Paterno as your avatar at this point seems in very poor taste.

Paterno did a whole lot of really good things in his lifetime and one really bad thing. Mcquery admitted that he severely toned down what he told Paterno due to his advanced age. Paterno should have done more, but in the end he did follow 'the book' so to speak. When asked about the situation by the media he didn't make excuses or deflect. He admitted he should have done more. He faced the accusations and didn't hide from the media. I dont agree with what he diidn't do, but I respect how he handled himself. As a previous poster said, I don't think Paterno is the devil, and I think it's easy, in hindsight to sit back and say you would have done the right thing... but none of us really know. I choose to appreciate the man for all the good things he did for every player that passed through his program, all the $ he raised for charity, and for demanding his players put education first. This scandal greatly tarnishes Paternos legacy, but let's not forget all the good he has done in his lifetime. So #### you Tim. I'm not changing it.

oy vey at this whole post

 

[fatness]

Paterno did a whole lot of really good things in his lifetime and one really bad thing. Mcquery admitted that he severely toned down what he told Paterno due to his advanced age. Paterno should have done more, but in the end he did follow 'the book' so to speak.

What book? The one that says "Call the cops when someone reports child abuse to you?" that most people follow? Or the one that says "Pass it off to someone who will bury it?"

 

[belljr]

Prosecutors rested their case after calling their 21st witness, the mother of so-called Victim 9, a recent high school graduate who testified last week that Sandusky raped him in the basement of the coach's suburban home.

The woman said her son told her that Sandusky called him late one night after the first round of charges were filed in November, asking if he would be a character witness. "He said that Jerry asked him to make an affidavit or some kind of statement on what kind of character or person he was," she said. "Why would he call my kid after he's being accused of things like this?"

In December, prosecutors brought more charges against Sandusky, alleging he'd had forced anal sex with the boy. Victim 9's mother said the boy's laundry would often be short of underwear and he would claim he had thrown it away because he had an accident. Last week, the teen said Sandusky forced him to have anal sex that made him bleed.

link

I can't imagine how bad that mom feels. She made her kid go with Sandusky when the kid didn't feel like...

 

[Jutz]

Paterno did a whole lot of really good things in his lifetime and one really bad thing. Mcquery admitted that he severely toned down what he told Paterno due to his advanced age. Paterno should have done more, but in the end he did follow 'the book' so to speak.

What book? The one that says "Call the cops when someone reports child abuse to you?" that most people follow? Or the one that says "Pass it off to someone who will bury it?"

No, the one that says report the incident to the administration so they can pursue a full investigation. You are making the assumption Paterno knew Curly would cover it up with no evidence to back that assumption. He should have done more. He admits he should have done more. But your statements makes it sound like he did nothing, or even actively participated in the cover up which is simply not true. I think this quote sums up what I am trying to express best:

I believe, and here I'm speaking for myself and not my students, that, on the basis of the information now in the public sphere, Paterno was treated unfairly by the Penn Board. His extraordinary contributions to the school -- both on the field and off -- should have been weighed in the balance and he should have been permitted to retire with dignity. His legacy should be that of a giant, who may have made one serious mistake of judgment, which seems clearer in retrospect than it probably was at the time it was made. There are no perfect heroes in real life, just flawed human beings who should be judged on the totality of their merits and demerits. When so judged, Joe Pa is still a flawed hero in my eyes. Many of my friends and students disagree, believing that his mistake was so serious that it trumps his victories on the Grid Iron. It's an interesting debate. What do you think?

Obviously you disagree, but my view of the situation is not as outrageous as you are attempting to make it sound. LINK

 

[mad sweeney]

Jutz, I appreciate a lot of what you write, and actually agree with some of it.

However, your continued use of Paterno as your avatar at this point seems in very poor taste.

Paterno did a whole lot of really good things in his lifetime and one really bad thing. Mcquery admitted that he severely toned down what he told Paterno due to his advanced age. Paterno should have done more, but in the end he did follow 'the book' so to speak. When asked about the situation by the media he didn't make excuses or deflect. He admitted he should have done more. He faced the accusations and didn't hide from the media. I dont agree with what he diidn't do, but I respect how he handled himself. As a previous poster said, I don't think Paterno is the devil, and I think it's easy, in hindsight to sit back and say you would have done the right thing... but none of us really know. I choose to appreciate the man for all the good things he did for every player that passed through his program, all the $ he raised for charity, and for demanding his players put education first. This scandal greatly tarnishes Paternos legacy, but let's not forget all the good he has done in his lifetime.

So #### you Tim. I'm not changing it.

When he testified to the GJ he said that the coward McQueary told him of "fondling" and "something of a sexual nature" in the shower. Then when the #### hit the fan he tried to downplay what he was told and mumbled something about "horsing around" to cover his ###. He couldn't even be honest about what he testified to. What he did and what you describe there are two totally different things.

 

[mad sweeney]

Paterno did a whole lot of really good things in his lifetime and one really bad thing. Mcquery admitted that he severely toned down what he told Paterno due to his advanced age. Paterno should have done more, but in the end he did follow 'the book' so to speak.

What book? The one that says "Call the cops when someone reports child abuse to you?" that most people follow? Or the one that says "Pass it off to someone who will bury it?"

No, the one that says report the incident to the administration so they can pursue a full investigation. You are making the assumption Paterno knew Curly would cover it up with no evidence to back that assumption. He should have done more. He admits he should have done more. But your statements makes it sound like he did nothing, or even actively participated in the cover up which is simply not true. I think this quote sums up what I am trying to express best:

I believe, and here I'm speaking for myself and not my students, that, on the basis of the information now in the public sphere, Paterno was treated unfairly by the Penn Board. His extraordinary contributions to the school -- both on the field and off -- should have been weighed in the balance and he should have been permitted to retire with dignity. His legacy should be that of a giant, who may have made one serious mistake of judgment, which seems clearer in retrospect than it probably was at the time it was made. There are no perfect heroes in real life, just flawed human beings who should be judged on the totality of their merits and demerits. When so judged, Joe Pa is still a flawed hero in my eyes. Many of my friends and students disagree, believing that his mistake was so serious that it trumps his victories on the Grid Iron. It's an interesting debate. What do you think?

Obviously you disagree, but my view of the situation is not as outrageous as you are attempting to make it sound. LINK

There are some things that tarnish 5 decades of helping people. Turning a blind eye to child rape is one of them.

 

[Wrighteous Ray]

Jutz, I appreciate a lot of what you write, and actually agree with some of it. However, your continued use of Paterno as your avatar at this point seems in very poor taste.

Paterno did a whole lot of really good things in his lifetime and one really bad thing. Mcquery admitted that he severely toned down what he told Paterno due to his advanced age. Paterno should have done more, but in the end he did follow 'the book' so to speak. When asked about the situation by the media he didn't make excuses or deflect. He admitted he should have done more. He faced the accusations and didn't hide from the media. I dont agree with what he diidn't do, but I respect how he handled himself. As a previous poster said, I don't think Paterno is the devil, and I think it's easy, in hindsight to sit back and say you would have done the right thing... but none of us really know. I choose to appreciate the man for all the good things he did for every player that passed through his program, all the $ he raised for charity, and for demanding his players put education first. This scandal greatly tarnishes Paternos legacy, but let's not forget all the good he has done in his lifetime. So #### you Tim. I'm not changing it.

I always appreciate somebody cussing at timschochet, but he was pretty much pointing out what everybody else is thinking. Your avatar is going to be viewed in a certain way by most posters, whether you intend it that way or not.

 

[Jutz]

Jutz, I appreciate a lot of what you write, and actually agree with some of it.

However, your continued use of Paterno as your avatar at this point seems in very poor taste.

Paterno did a whole lot of really good things in his lifetime and one really bad thing. Mcquery admitted that he severely toned down what he told Paterno due to his advanced age. Paterno should have done more, but in the end he did follow 'the book' so to speak. When asked about the situation by the media he didn't make excuses or deflect. He admitted he should have done more. He faced the accusations and didn't hide from the media. I dont agree with what he diidn't do, but I respect how he handled himself. As a previous poster said, I don't think Paterno is the devil, and I think it's easy, in hindsight to sit back and say you would have done the right thing... but none of us really know. I choose to appreciate the man for all the good things he did for every player that passed through his program, all the $ he raised for charity, and for demanding his players put education first. This scandal greatly tarnishes Paternos legacy, but let's not forget all the good he has done in his lifetime.

So #### you Tim. I'm not changing it.

When he testified to the GJ he said that the coward McQueary told him of "fondling" and "something of a sexual nature" in the shower. Then when the #### hit the fan he tried to downplay what he was told and mumbled something about "horsing around" to cover his ###. He couldn't even be honest about what he testified to. What he did and what you describe there are two totally different things.

That's a valid point, however; I am attempting to point out that he never said "I did everything I could do". He never said it was Mcquerie's fault. He never said it was Curly's or Spanier's fault. He admitted fault and said "I should have done more". I just think a lot of people fail to remember the idea that hindsight is 20/20.

 

[Jutz]

Paterno did a whole lot of really good things in his lifetime and one really bad thing. Mcquery admitted that he severely toned down what he told Paterno due to his advanced age. Paterno should have done more, but in the end he did follow 'the book' so to speak.

What book? The one that says "Call the cops when someone reports child abuse to you?" that most people follow? Or the one that says "Pass it off to someone who will bury it?"

No, the one that says report the incident to the administration so they can pursue a full investigation. You are making the assumption Paterno knew Curly would cover it up with no evidence to back that assumption. He should have done more. He admits he should have done more. But your statements makes it sound like he did nothing, or even actively participated in the cover up which is simply not true. I think this quote sums up what I am trying to express best:

I believe, and here I'm speaking for myself and not my students, that, on the basis of the information now in the public sphere, Paterno was treated unfairly by the Penn Board. His extraordinary contributions to the school -- both on the field and off -- should have been weighed in the balance and he should have been permitted to retire with dignity. His legacy should be that of a giant, who may have made one serious mistake of judgment, which seems clearer in retrospect than it probably was at the time it was made. There are no perfect heroes in real life, just flawed human beings who should be judged on the totality of their merits and demerits. When so judged, Joe Pa is still a flawed hero in my eyes. Many of my friends and students disagree, believing that his mistake was so serious that it trumps his victories on the Grid Iron. It's an interesting debate. What do you think?

Obviously you disagree, but my view of the situation is not as outrageous as you are attempting to make it sound. LINK

There are some things that tarnish 5 decades of helping people. Turning a blind eye to child rape is one of them.

Had he turned a blind eye to it I would agree.

 

[Jutz]

Jutz, I appreciate a lot of what you write, and actually agree with some of it. However, your continued use of Paterno as your avatar at this point seems in very poor taste.

Paterno did a whole lot of really good things in his lifetime and one really bad thing. Mcquery admitted that he severely toned down what he told Paterno due to his advanced age. Paterno should have done more, but in the end he did follow 'the book' so to speak. When asked about the situation by the media he didn't make excuses or deflect. He admitted he should have done more. He faced the accusations and didn't hide from the media. I dont agree with what he diidn't do, but I respect how he handled himself. As a previous poster said, I don't think Paterno is the devil, and I think it's easy, in hindsight to sit back and say you would have done the right thing... but none of us really know. I choose to appreciate the man for all the good things he did for every player that passed through his program, all the $ he raised for charity, and for demanding his players put education first. This scandal greatly tarnishes Paternos legacy, but let's not forget all the good he has done in his lifetime. So #### you Tim. I'm not changing it.

I always appreciate somebody cussing at timschochet, but he was pretty much pointing out what everybody else is thinking. Your avatar is going to be viewed in a certain way by most posters, whether you intend it that way or not.

I fully realize this and am willing to accept that, however I disagree that it is in poor taste. Had it been an avatar of Sandusky I would agree... yet you would think it was, based on some people's reactions.

 

[mad sweeney]

Jutz, I appreciate a lot of what you write, and actually agree with some of it.

However, your continued use of Paterno as your avatar at this point seems in very poor taste.

Paterno did a whole lot of really good things in his lifetime and one really bad thing. Mcquery admitted that he severely toned down what he told Paterno due to his advanced age. Paterno should have done more, but in the end he did follow 'the book' so to speak. When asked about the situation by the media he didn't make excuses or deflect. He admitted he should have done more. He faced the accusations and didn't hide from the media. I dont agree with what he diidn't do, but I respect how he handled himself. As a previous poster said, I don't think Paterno is the devil, and I think it's easy, in hindsight to sit back and say you would have done the right thing... but none of us really know. I choose to appreciate the man for all the good things he did for every player that passed through his program, all the $ he raised for charity, and for demanding his players put education first. This scandal greatly tarnishes Paternos legacy, but let's not forget all the good he has done in his lifetime.

So #### you Tim. I'm not changing it.

When he testified to the GJ he said that the coward McQueary told him of "fondling" and "something of a sexual nature" in the shower. Then when the #### hit the fan he tried to downplay what he was told and mumbled something about "horsing around" to cover his ###. He couldn't even be honest about what he testified to. What he did and what you describe there are two totally different things.

That's a valid point, however; I am attempting to point out that he never said "I did everything I could do". He never said it was Mcquerie's fault. He never said it was Curly's or Spanier's fault. He admitted fault and said "I should have done more". I just think a lot of people fail to remember the idea that hindsight is 20/20.

No, he really didn't. When you downplay what you did (or didn't) do to preserve your image, that's not admitting fault. Sorry, the man died as a self-serving coward who escaped having to pay for what he did.

 

[mad sweeney]

Paterno did a whole lot of really good things in his lifetime and one really bad thing. Mcquery admitted that he severely toned down what he told Paterno due to his advanced age. Paterno should have done more, but in the end he did follow 'the book' so to speak.

What book? The one that says "Call the cops when someone reports child abuse to you?" that most people follow? Or the one that says "Pass it off to someone who will bury it?"

No, the one that says report the incident to the administration so they can pursue a full investigation. You are making the assumption Paterno knew Curly would cover it up with no evidence to back that assumption. He should have done more. He admits he should have done more. But your statements makes it sound like he did nothing, or even actively participated in the cover up which is simply not true. I think this quote sums up what I am trying to express best:

I believe, and here I'm speaking for myself and not my students, that, on the basis of the information now in the public sphere, Paterno was treated unfairly by the Penn Board. His extraordinary contributions to the school -- both on the field and off -- should have been weighed in the balance and he should have been permitted to retire with dignity. His legacy should be that of a giant, who may have made one serious mistake of judgment, which seems clearer in retrospect than it probably was at the time it was made. There are no perfect heroes in real life, just flawed human beings who should be judged on the totality of their merits and demerits. When so judged, Joe Pa is still a flawed hero in my eyes. Many of my friends and students disagree, believing that his mistake was so serious that it trumps his victories on the Grid Iron. It's an interesting debate. What do you think?

Obviously you disagree, but my view of the situation is not as outrageous as you are attempting to make it sound. LINK

There are some things that tarnish 5 decades of helping people. Turning a blind eye to child rape is one of them.

Had he turned a blind eye to it I would agree.

Then we're in agreement. He did that for a decade at least and let Sandusky roam the halls with little boys in tow and never said a word.

 

[Jutz]

Paterno did a whole lot of really good things in his lifetime and one really bad thing. Mcquery admitted that he severely toned down what he told Paterno due to his advanced age. Paterno should have done more, but in the end he did follow 'the book' so to speak.

What book? The one that says "Call the cops when someone reports child abuse to you?" that most people follow? Or the one that says "Pass it off to someone who will bury it?"

No, the one that says report the incident to the administration so they can pursue a full investigation. You are making the assumption Paterno knew Curly would cover it up with no evidence to back that assumption. He should have done more. He admits he should have done more. But your statements makes it sound like he did nothing, or even actively participated in the cover up which is simply not true. I think this quote sums up what I am trying to express best:

I believe, and here I'm speaking for myself and not my students, that, on the basis of the information now in the public sphere, Paterno was treated unfairly by the Penn Board. His extraordinary contributions to the school -- both on the field and off -- should have been weighed in the balance and he should have been permitted to retire with dignity. His legacy should be that of a giant, who may have made one serious mistake of judgment, which seems clearer in retrospect than it probably was at the time it was made. There are no perfect heroes in real life, just flawed human beings who should be judged on the totality of their merits and demerits. When so judged, Joe Pa is still a flawed hero in my eyes. Many of my friends and students disagree, believing that his mistake was so serious that it trumps his victories on the Grid Iron. It's an interesting debate. What do you think?

Obviously you disagree, but my view of the situation is not as outrageous as you are attempting to make it sound. LINK

There are some things that tarnish 5 decades of helping people. Turning a blind eye to child rape is one of them.

Had he turned a blind eye to it I would agree.

Then we're in agreement. He did that for a decade at least and let Sandusky roam the halls with little boys in tow and never said a word.

Reporting the incident to the athletic director, which eventually made it's way to the University president is not the same as turning a blind eye to it, so no, we are not in agreement. Paterno died knowing he should have done more but he should not have to also pay for the sins of the administration.

 

[mad sweeney]

Paterno did a whole lot of really good things in his lifetime and one really bad thing. Mcquery admitted that he severely toned down what he told Paterno due to his advanced age. Paterno should have done more, but in the end he did follow 'the book' so to speak.

What book? The one that says "Call the cops when someone reports child abuse to you?" that most people follow? Or the one that says "Pass it off to someone who will bury it?"

No, the one that says report the incident to the administration so they can pursue a full investigation. You are making the assumption Paterno knew Curly would cover it up with no evidence to back that assumption. He should have done more. He admits he should have done more. But your statements makes it sound like he did nothing, or even actively participated in the cover up which is simply not true. I think this quote sums up what I am trying to express best:

I believe, and here I'm speaking for myself and not my students, that, on the basis of the information now in the public sphere, Paterno was treated unfairly by the Penn Board. His extraordinary contributions to the school -- both on the field and off -- should have been weighed in the balance and he should have been permitted to retire with dignity. His legacy should be that of a giant, who may have made one serious mistake of judgment, which seems clearer in retrospect than it probably was at the time it was made. There are no perfect heroes in real life, just flawed human beings who should be judged on the totality of their merits and demerits. When so judged, Joe Pa is still a flawed hero in my eyes. Many of my friends and students disagree, believing that his mistake was so serious that it trumps his victories on the Grid Iron. It's an interesting debate. What do you think?

Obviously you disagree, but my view of the situation is not as outrageous as you are attempting to make it sound. LINK

There are some things that tarnish 5 decades of helping people. Turning a blind eye to child rape is one of them.

Had he turned a blind eye to it I would agree.

Then we're in agreement. He did that for a decade at least and let Sandusky roam the halls with little boys in tow and never said a word.

Reporting the incident to the athletic director, which eventually made it's way to the University president is not the same as turning a blind eye to it, so no, we are not in agreement. Paterno died knowing he should have done more but he should not have to also pay for the sins of the administration.

You're correct on the reporting, then he turned a blind eye on it for the rest of his career.

 

[CrossEyed]

Paterno did a whole lot of really good things in his lifetime and one really bad thing. Mcquery admitted that he severely toned down what he told Paterno due to his advanced age. Paterno should have done more, but in the end he did follow 'the book' so to speak.

What book? The one that says "Call the cops when someone reports child abuse to you?" that most people follow? Or the one that says "Pass it off to someone who will bury it?"

No, the one that says report the incident to the administration so they can pursue a full investigation. You are making the assumption Paterno knew Curly would cover it up with no evidence to back that assumption. He should have done more. He admits he should have done more. But your statements makes it sound like he did nothing, or even actively participated in the cover up which is simply not true. I think this quote sums up what I am trying to express best:

I believe, and here I'm speaking for myself and not my students, that, on the basis of the information now in the public sphere, Paterno was treated unfairly by the Penn Board. His extraordinary contributions to the school -- both on the field and off -- should have been weighed in the balance and he should have been permitted to retire with dignity. His legacy should be that of a giant, who may have made one serious mistake of judgment, which seems clearer in retrospect than it probably was at the time it was made. There are no perfect heroes in real life, just flawed human beings who should be judged on the totality of their merits and demerits. When so judged, Joe Pa is still a flawed hero in my eyes. Many of my friends and students disagree, believing that his mistake was so serious that it trumps his victories on the Grid Iron. It's an interesting debate. What do you think?

Obviously you disagree, but my view of the situation is not as outrageous as you are attempting to make it sound. LINK

There are some things that tarnish 5 decades of helping people. Turning a blind eye to child rape is one of them.

 

[Wrighteous Ray]

I always appreciate somebody cussing at timschochet, but he was pretty much pointing out what everybody else is thinking. Your avatar is going to be viewed in a certain way by most posters, whether you intend it that way or not.

I fully realize this and am willing to accept that, however I disagree that it is in poor taste. Had it been an avatar of Sandusky I would agree... yet you would think it was, based on some people's reactions.

There might come a day when a Paterno avatar could be viewed in a different light. But Sandusky's trial is going on right now. That's the foremost thing in people's minds when they think of Paterno. I guess I'm not sure what message you're trying to send by keeping the avatar.

 

[roarlions]

So is it really possible for someone who did not witness a possible crime to report it to the police? Hey, so and so told me he saw a crime so I'm reporting it to you to investigate. Does it really work that way? Serious question.

 

[Wrighteous Ray]

So is it really possible for someone who did not witness a possible crime to report it to the police? Hey, so and so told me he saw a crime so I'm reporting it to you to investigate. Does it really work that way? Serious question.

Yes, it is possible. There are no rules of evidence applicable if you're just reporting a crime.

 

[Jutz]

Paterno did a whole lot of really good things in his lifetime and one really bad thing. Mcquery admitted that he severely toned down what he told Paterno due to his advanced age. Paterno should have done more, but in the end he did follow 'the book' so to speak.

What book? The one that says "Call the cops when someone reports child abuse to you?" that most people follow? Or the one that says "Pass it off to someone who will bury it?"

No, the one that says report the incident to the administration so they can pursue a full investigation. You are making the assumption Paterno knew Curly would cover it up with no evidence to back that assumption. He should have done more. He admits he should have done more. But your statements makes it sound like he did nothing, or even actively participated in the cover up which is simply not true. I think this quote sums up what I am trying to express best:

I believe, and here I'm speaking for myself and not my students, that, on the basis of the information now in the public sphere, Paterno was treated unfairly by the Penn Board. His extraordinary contributions to the school -- both on the field and off -- should have been weighed in the balance and he should have been permitted to retire with dignity. His legacy should be that of a giant, who may have made one serious mistake of judgment, which seems clearer in retrospect than it probably was at the time it was made. There are no perfect heroes in real life, just flawed human beings who should be judged on the totality of their merits and demerits. When so judged, Joe Pa is still a flawed hero in my eyes. Many of my friends and students disagree, believing that his mistake was so serious that it trumps his victories on the Grid Iron. It's an interesting debate. What do you think?

Obviously you disagree, but my view of the situation is not as outrageous as you are attempting to make it sound. LINK

There are some things that tarnish 5 decades of helping people. Turning a blind eye to child rape is one of them.

Had he turned a blind eye to it I would agree.

Then we're in agreement. He did that for a decade at least and let Sandusky roam the halls with little boys in tow and never said a word.

Reporting the incident to the athletic director, which eventually made it's way to the University president is not the same as turning a blind eye to it, so no, we are not in agreement. Paterno died knowing he should have done more but he should not have to also pay for the sins of the administration.

You're correct on the reporting, then he turned a blind eye on it for the rest of his career.

I can't deny that that is terrible. I can make numerous explanations about why this or that happened or didn't happen but the bottom line is he probably did put his head in the sand about the situation. It's very troubling. I honestly think he was in denial about it and simply didn't want to believe it. The only point I am attempting to make is, let's not completely dismiss all the good he did. Lets not forget the report did make it to the president And let's not forget hindsight is 20/20.

 

[mad sweeney]

So is it really possible for someone who did not witness a possible crime to report it to the police? Hey, so and so told me he saw a crime so I'm reporting it to you to investigate. Does it really work that way? Serious question.

When you're the most powerful man in the institution and county? Yes. But that's not where he failed, assuming he didn't know about it more from the previous incident.

 

[Apple Jack]

I always appreciate somebody cussing at timschochet, but he was pretty much pointing out what everybody else is thinking. Your avatar is going to be viewed in a certain way by most posters, whether you intend it that way or not.

I fully realize this and am willing to accept that, however I disagree that it is in poor taste. Had it been an avatar of Sandusky I would agree... yet you would think it was, based on some people's reactions.

There might come a day when a Paterno avatar could be viewed in a different light. But Sandusky's trial is going on right now. That's the foremost thing in people's minds when they think of Paterno. I guess I'm not sure what message you're trying to send by keeping the avatar.

The denial ain't just a river in China.

 

[mad sweeney]

Paterno did a whole lot of really good things in his lifetime and one really bad thing. Mcquery admitted that he severely toned down what he told Paterno due to his advanced age. Paterno should have done more, but in the end he did follow 'the book' so to speak.

What book? The one that says "Call the cops when someone reports child abuse to you?" that most people follow? Or the one that says "Pass it off to someone who will bury it?"

No, the one that says report the incident to the administration so they can pursue a full investigation. You are making the assumption Paterno knew Curly would cover it up with no evidence to back that assumption. He should have done more. He admits he should have done more. But your statements makes it sound like he did nothing, or even actively participated in the cover up which is simply not true. I think this quote sums up what I am trying to express best:

I believe, and here I'm speaking for myself and not my students, that, on the basis of the information now in the public sphere, Paterno was treated unfairly by the Penn Board. His extraordinary contributions to the school -- both on the field and off -- should have been weighed in the balance and he should have been permitted to retire with dignity. His legacy should be that of a giant, who may have made one serious mistake of judgment, which seems clearer in retrospect than it probably was at the time it was made. There are no perfect heroes in real life, just flawed human beings who should be judged on the totality of their merits and demerits. When so judged, Joe Pa is still a flawed hero in my eyes. Many of my friends and students disagree, believing that his mistake was so serious that it trumps his victories on the Grid Iron. It's an interesting debate. What do you think?

Obviously you disagree, but my view of the situation is not as outrageous as you are attempting to make it sound. LINK

There are some things that tarnish 5 decades of helping people. Turning a blind eye to child rape is one of them.

Had he turned a blind eye to it I would agree.

Then we're in agreement. He did that for a decade at least and let Sandusky roam the halls with little boys in tow and never said a word.

Reporting the incident to the athletic director, which eventually made it's way to the University president is not the same as turning a blind eye to it, so no, we are not in agreement. Paterno died knowing he should have done more but he should not have to also pay for the sins of the administration.

You're correct on the reporting, then he turned a blind eye on it for the rest of his career.

I can't deny that that is terrible. I can make numerous explanations about why this or that happened or didn't happen but the bottom line is he probably did put his head in the sand about the situation. It's very troubling. I honestly think he was in denial about it and simply didn't want to believe it. The only point I am attempting to make is, let's not completely dismiss all the good he did. Lets not forget the report did make it to the president And let's not forget hindsight is 20/20.

Enabling child rape trumps all the good he did. Some things do that, this is one. So now that you've just admitted that he turned a blind eye to child rape, you're in agreement with me, as you said above. Correct? Burying your head in the sand is pretty much the definition of turning a blind eye.

 

[badmojo1006]

Just read that Sandusky's lawyer compared the case to a soap Opera like "General Hospital"...no "All my Children"

 

[Jutz]

I always appreciate somebody cussing at timschochet, but he was pretty much pointing out what everybody else is thinking. Your avatar is going to be viewed in a certain way by most posters, whether you intend it that way or not.

I fully realize this and am willing to accept that, however I disagree that it is in poor taste. Had it been an avatar of Sandusky I would agree... yet you would think it was, based on some people's reactions.

There might come a day when a Paterno avatar could be viewed in a different light. But Sandusky's trial is going on right now. That's the foremost thing in people's minds when they think of Paterno. I guess I'm not sure what message you're trying to send by keeping the avatar.

The message is: I believe there will come a day when a Paterno avatar will be viewed in a different light, and I a willing to weather that storm and defend his reputation until we reach that point, which I ralize may be in the distant future... and for some will never come.

 

[Billy Bats]

The only point I am attempting to make is, let's not completely dismiss all the good he did. Lets not forget the report did make it to the president And let's not forget hindsight is 20/20.

Well it was said above, with the trial happening and it being fresh in the minds of everyone, now doesn't seem to be an appropriate time to honor the man, because it was such a heinous crime that was committed under his watch. You have to understand the magnitude of what went on with everyone letting it happen. And that's the frustrating part about the Penn Staters, us outsiders don't think you grasp the severity and magnitude of the situation.

 

[Tremendous Upside]

So is a conviction a foregone conclusion at this point? Or is the potential influence of PSU on the jury pool still a possible out for this pathetic excuse of a man?

A buddy of mine who did practice as a criminal defense lawyer for six years (including a few fairly high-profile guys) says Sandusky is "toast."

I do think this is the most likely outcome, but Pennsylvania law has a couple of quirks that work in Sandusky's favor:http://deadspin.com/5918753/jerry-sandusky-still-has-a-legal-advantage-over-his-accusers-because-pennsylvania-law-is-still-stupidFrom the post above:

1. Trial judges are required to instruct jurors to factor in how long it took for victims to report their allegations of sex abuse to authorities, even though that time difference is known to have no relevance to the truth of their claims. 2. Expert testimony in sex assault cases is not permitted.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

So is it really possible for someone who did not witness a possible crime to report it to the police? Hey, so and so told me he saw a crime so I'm reporting it to you to investigate. Does it really work that way? Serious question.

In 48 states there's a whole category of people known as mandatory reporters who are legally required to report any suspected abuse to the proper authorities. In 18 states anyone suspecting child abuse is required to report it. That's a requirement whether you witnessed the abuse or not. I don't think Paterno was covered under these laws, and I think initially he probably did believe that campus security was handling it. But when they ran Sandusky out of the program there's no way Paterno didn't know why, and it's pretty hard to believe he wasn't aware that it was being swept under the rug. Regardless, he certainly continued to see Sandusky in the presence of kids on campus and did nothing.

What's got people worked up is that Paterno was fairly righteous (in the good sense of the word) when it came to the words he spoke and the lessons he taught others, but when it came time for him to show some courage, do the right thing and lead even though it would have cost him personally he took the easy way out. Again, I think he's human -- lots of people would have done the same thing. And very few of us here know what we'd have done because we weren't in his shoes and haven't had to make those kinds of choices. But his actions don't line up with his words and he strikes people as hypocritical as a result.