Rookie Brown turning heads: One of the great things about camp is seeing a young, relatively unknown player burst onto the scene and become the talk of camp.
That player for the Cards is rookie third-round receiver John Brown, who is another reason why Fitzgerald could be expendable. Watching Brown work last week was eye opening; his explosive speed and poise when running routes really stood out.
This might sound like high praise, but some around the organization have already said he compares favorably to former Colts receiver Marvin Harrison, who is a sure Hall of Famer.
Brown, who ran a 4.34 40 at the combine, has been nicknamed "Smoke" by some in the organization because he is so fast. Brown is listed at 5-foot-10, 180 pounds, but that might be stretching it. He can fly and he is quick, which is a nice combination.
That size, and the fact that he came from tiny Pittsburg (Kan.) State, had some in the organization a little cautious as they went to training camp, even after he impressed during offseason work. They wanted to see if he could handle the physical part of camp. He has answered those concerns in a big way, although he tweaked his hamstring late last week and sat out some work.
"The one thing, when you get a guy that's not a first-round pick, that's from a smaller school, when those guys come in you always wonder, 'Is it going to be too big for them?' " Cardinals quarterback Carson Palmer said. "When there's a crowd, when the pads come on, going against the ones [first stringers], once everything's installed and the whole playbook is thrown at him, and the one thing that jumped out at me is nothing's too big for him."
In Fitzgerald, Floyd, Ted Ginn and Brown, the Cardinals have a lot of playmakers on the outside. Palmer, who looks much more comfortable in Bruce Arians' offense this year, is excited to have that type of firepower outside.
"We should be able to score a lot of points," Palmer said.
And Brown should get his share of catches.
Not watching but he has 4/65 receiving right before the half. I know it's preseason but having twice as many catches as anybody else on your team is never a bad thing.Did he make a play?
I think it's too late, he looks awesome. Glad to have him in three of my four drafts so far. I was hoping to get him in the only one I have left but I'll have to use at least a 2nd rounder to get him I think.I hope this guys hammy tightens up until regular season.
glad I could helpNice. This was a guy I didn't draft but picked up when I saw this thread in two leagues. Love guys like this who do it on merit instead of pedigree.
As a dynasty owner I'm even more concerned about what happens after Palmer. The drafted a garbage QB this year.Although I do have to say I question his ability to get enough action to be more than a backup WR on my fantasy team for a while. I just don't see Carson Palmer being good enough to feed three wide receivers and make them all have fantasy relevance.
How did Logan Thomas look last night by the way?As a dynasty owner I'm even more concerned about what happens after Palmer. The drafted a garbage QB this year.Although I do have to say I question his ability to get enough action to be more than a backup WR on my fantasy team for a while. I just don't see Carson Palmer being good enough to feed three wide receivers and make them all have fantasy relevance.
Very good. Accurate, which was his main weakness to some. 11-12 and a TD.How did Logan Thomas look last night by the way?As a dynasty owner I'm even more concerned about what happens after Palmer. The drafted a garbage QB this year.Although I do have to say I question his ability to get enough action to be more than a backup WR on my fantasy team for a while. I just don't see Carson Palmer being good enough to feed three wide receivers and make them all have fantasy relevance.
like I said at the beginning, Fitz Is due an astronomical amount of dinero and could be cut, but he's the face of the franchise so who knows. Arians offense can support 3 WR's because they don't use the TE. Back in the day, Palmer also supported TJ, 85, and Chris Henry so there is that...Although I do have to say I question his ability to get enough action to be more than a backup WR on my fantasy team for a while. I just don't see Carson Palmer being good enough to feed three wide receivers and make them all have fantasy relevance.
Great post, thanks for sharing. It's always nice hearing an opinion from someone who has seen him play quite a bit, no matter the level. Watching highlights is nothing like watching a full game and seeing for yourself. There are some players that just have "it" and you can't even really describe why you know they're special, but you know they are.It’s pathetic that it’s been so long since I’ve been on this forum I no longer have access to the email that I used to originally sign-on with… Even though I myself haven’t played fantasy football for around 10 years, I’ve been a regular visitor to the News Blogger and the past couple of year’s two of my sons (now 12 & 14) have been getting into fantasy football.
So for me to create an account to make a single post should tell you something. I saw this thread and had to comment.
I am a graduate of Pittsburg State University and our family regularly attends Gorilla football games. Yes, even at our level, every few years we’ll see a kid on one of the D2 teams who has slipped through the cracks of college football and is clearly special (Rod Smith of Missouri Southern/Denver Broncos and Joique Bell of Wayne State/Detroit Lions come to mind). If you’re lucky enough, as we have been at Pittsburg State, every 8 to 10 years you’ll get a guy who is head and shoulders above everyone else, even the All Americans. For us it was Ronnie West and Ronald Moore in the early 90’s (both Harlon Hill winners – the D2 MVP) and Aaron McConnell and Germaine Race in the early 2000’s (Race should have been a Harlon Hill winner, but I digress).
When John Brown first took the field for Pittsburg State none of the fans had a clue who he was. He was just another transfer from Florida who at spent time at an area community college. By the time he left everyone was a fan of our #5. He’s a good kid who clearly enjoys playing the game and if I had to describe his playing style in one word it would be “electric” (I wrote this BEFORE the NFL Facebook comment!) – it is what he was meant to do and for him to get a shot in the NFL is awesome.
Some things to keep in mind:
-1- Speed kills at every level. It does not matter what level of play you are in if the defender simply cannot keep up. He isn’t just fast, he’s a smooth runner and makes it look effortless. Think flag football. If somebody gets a hold of his jersey, he’s going down. IF they get a hold of his jersey.
-2- Brown’s numbers were nowhere near what they could have been at Pittsburg State, even though we are a run first team. There were games where he was wide open, but the QB chose to dump the ball underneath because it just wasn’t fair to the other team. Or they’d have him sit out a lot more than he should have. Even though he only played 3 years at Pittsburg State, I’m convinced Brown should own several D2 receiving records. 323 career receptions? Might have been tough, but doable. 4,983 career receiving yards? Should have had that. 1,876 yards in a season? Easily could have had it. 78 career receiving touchdowns? You betcha. Had the PSU coaching staff been obnoxious enough, and fed him the ball every chance they got, I firmly believe Brown could have had 100+ receptions for 2,000+ yards at our level – for each of his three seasons – definitely his last two. I can’t even imagine how many TD’s he could have had. Pittsburg State is occasionally accused of running up the score. Those people never noticed who was not getting the ball. I’ve overheard opposing fans say stuff like “Thank God they stopped throwing it to him.”
-3- With his frame, Brown should not go over the middle, but he’s fearless. As long as his body will let him, and I hope it does, he will get open whether it’s down the field or over the middle. I’ve seen teams (yes, lesser talent) basically roll 3 and 4 guys his way and he’d still fight for the ball, get it, and break loose. He’s a scrapper with speed.
-4- The Arizona Cardinals offense is an ideal fit for Brown. When I saw that the Cards were the team who drafted Brown I was stunned – he is built for Arians system. Brown is going to love playing for them. I was a little surprised he was a 3rd round pick. That increases the expectations of him and only time will tell if he surpasses them. But based on what I myself have seen of him personally and what the reporters and coaches have been saying about him in Arizona, I think he is well on his way.
-5- The biggest knock against Brown is his size. If John Brown was 6’4” and 210” every college fan in America would know his name. Thank goodness he isn’t that big, because that meant I and my sons actually got to see him play in person. If the NFL refs are going to call a lot more defensive holding this season, that eliminates that concern. LETTING JOHN BROWN RUN A ROUTE WITHOUT BEING ABLE TO TOUCH HIM IS CHEATING.
I don’t know if Brown will be a role player, a stud, or fizzle out at the NFL level. I do know that when he is on the field you better keep an eye on him.
Once a Gorilla, always a Gorilla… even if you’re wearing Cardinal red.
Wrong Brown, John Brown made a nice block on that play for Jaron BrownNext preseason game...1st play for the Cardinals and it's a real nice catch and run for Brown for 51 yards. This guy is ridiculous.
Ps. Where is everybody? Nobody sees what this guy is doing?
Well, crap! Thanks for clarifying.Wrong Brown, John Brown made a nice block on that play for Jaron BrownNext preseason game...1st play for the Cardinals and it's a real nice catch and run for Brown for 51 yards. This guy is ridiculous.
Ps. Where is everybody? Nobody sees what this guy is doing?
Clueless. He's probably the #3 over Ginn.This is the 2nd time tonight I've heard the announcers say that he's "trying to make the team". Is he really "on the bubble", or are they clueless?
Agreed. He's a 3rd round pick that has been praised non stop as soon as he stepped foot on the practice field. Him making the team isn't an issue. The question is how much he plays this year.He feels like he's am UDFA type guy but he's not. The team invested a lot to get him. Even if he's done nothing so far he'd most likely make the team.Clueless. He's probably the #3 over Ginn.This is the 2nd time tonight I've heard the announcers say that he's "trying to make the team". Is he really "on the bubble", or are they clueless?
Keep in mind that Collinsworth was also saying how Arians likes to keep a bunch of good TE's around after Fells made a couple of catches.This is the 2nd time tonight I've heard the announcers say that he's "trying to make the team". Is he really "on the bubble", or are they clueless?
I assumed that was it at first, but then I went back and watched it again- they specifically said Jaron was secure with his spot and John was fighting to make the team. I realized they must be idiots when they later said "if" Cincy's 2nd round pick Hill makes the team, it wouldn't bode well for BJGE.Probably thought he was Jaron Brown... Idiots.
Another vote for clueless. It was the other guy that was saying it. Collingsworth didn't correct him however. I'm sure he wanted to.Clueless. He's probably the #3 over Ginn.This is the 2nd time tonight I've heard the announcers say that he's "trying to make the team". Is he really "on the bubble", or are they clueless?
It really doesn't mean much except that the NFL (and the TV networks) are really trying to promote the "reality TV" angle regarding the draft/training camp/pre-season. I they can't get the season extended to more than 16 games, they want to find a way to make the pre-season more interesting (and therefore make more money). So every rookie is "fighting for a roster spot". Drama sells.I assumed that was it at first, but then I went back and watched it again- they specifically said Jaron was secure with his spot and John was fighting to make the team. I realized they must be idiots when they later said "if" Cincy's 2nd round pick Hill makes the team, it wouldn't bode well for BJGE.Probably thought he was Jaron Brown... Idiots.
I didn't see him doing it tonight and I don't want to see him doing it. They have Ginn for that.It really doesn't mean much except that the NFL (and the TV networks) are really trying to promote the "reality TV" angle regarding the draft/training camp/pre-season. I they can't get the season extended to more than 16 games, they want to find a way to make the pre-season more interesting (and therefore make more money). So every rookie is "fighting for a roster spot". Drama sells.I assumed that was it at first, but then I went back and watched it again- they specifically said Jaron was secure with his spot and John was fighting to make the team. I realized they must be idiots when they later said "if" Cincy's 2nd round pick Hill makes the team, it wouldn't bode well for BJGE.Probably thought he was Jaron Brown... Idiots.
Anyway, back to Brown. Any word on whether or not he'll be handling returns?
About 30.I have a dynasty rookie draft tonight - where would you slot this guy currently on your draft board?
Remember that Larry Fitz could be gone after this year. He's cap hit in 2015 is $23 million. He's old and slow. If Brown produces and Juron Brown takes steps, they can let him walk. He might want out anyway.About 30.I have a dynasty rookie draft tonight - where would you slot this guy currently on your draft board?
Assume you mean Andre Roberts and not Ginn (1st year with Cards)So, if we assume Ellington is out, anyone think Brown stands to benefit? Seems like Brown has a better chance to make the big play than either Dwyer or Taylor... though frankly I don't know what either of them are like in the passing game. Do those 5-7 projected targets for Ellington just get reassigned or split between those two or do they go somewhere else?
Last year the Cardinals ran 1037 offensive plays. Ted Ginn played 456 (44%) of those as the WR3, and was targeted 14% of those. Arians is already talking about Brown playing significantly more than that at 60%. Combined with a possible redistribution of Ellington's targets, anyone else think we're looking at more 3WR sets, possibly an increase in snap count for him above the 60% quoted already and a serviceable WR3 in Brown at least until Ellington gets back?
Assume same # total Cards offensive snaps: 1037
Increased snap count for Brown to 60%: 622
Same target % as 2013 WR3 at 14%: 87 targets
For perspective in 2013:
Fitz: 134 targets
Floyd: 112 targets
87 targets works out to about 5 a game and seems pretty conservative. If his snap count goes up and his target % increases even slightly (seems like there is room in the offense for both) it looks like there is some real potential here. Thoughts?
Thanks Craig; I screwed that up actually, you're right Andre Roberts was the WR3 and played almost exactly 60% of the snaps last year receiving 76 targets. So you're 80-100 represents him filling that role w/ a little additional volume from the absence (presumed) of Ellington. Makes sense to me.If you're right though and Fitz spends more time in the slot and pushes Brown outside combined with Browns big play ability does it get more interesting? Not sure what to guess his yard per catch at but it almost seems guaranteed to be far higher than Roberts (11.5ypc). Brown had one college season in the 15.5ypc range, but his other three were all 19.6-22ypc (admittedly this is in D2). He has great hands too, seems like he'd do better than Roberts 55.6% catch rate.Assume you mean Andre Roberts and not Ginn (1st year with Cards)80-100 targets seems like good estimate/range with Ellington looking to be out for a bit.. (FWIW I expect Fitz to see 150+ targets as he'll play in the slot even more this season -- approaching that same 60% figure). Safe to assume Floyd also sees increase in targets as well. Brown will unquestionably make an impact, just don't think (barring injury to Fitz/Floyd) it'll be a consistent one in fantasy this season. He was as impressive of rookie WR as I saw this preseason. Unquestionably has the talent to make parting with Fitz next offseason easier (if they can't renegotiate a new deal with Fitz). Antonio Brown/TY Hilton comps are pretty fair with Brown.So, if we assume Ellington is out, anyone think Brown stands to benefit? Seems like Brown has a better chance to make the big play than either Dwyer or Taylor... though frankly I don't know what either of them are like in the passing game. Do those 5-7 projected targets for Ellington just get reassigned or split between those two or do they go somewhere else?
Last year the Cardinals ran 1037 offensive plays. Ted Ginn played 456 (44%) of those as the WR3, and was targeted 14% of those. Arians is already talking about Brown playing significantly more than that at 60%. Combined with a possible redistribution of Ellington's targets, anyone else think we're looking at more 3WR sets, possibly an increase in snap count for him above the 60% quoted already and a serviceable WR3 in Brown at least until Ellington gets back?
Assume same # total Cards offensive snaps: 1037
Increased snap count for Brown to 60%: 622
Same target % as 2013 WR3 at 14%: 87 targets
For perspective in 2013:
Fitz: 134 targets
Floyd: 112 targets
87 targets works out to about 5 a game and seems pretty conservative. If his snap count goes up and his target % increases even slightly (seems like there is room in the offense for both) it looks like there is some real potential here. Thoughts?
The vision, patience, and explosiveness he showed on the touchdown run was eye opening. When he gets his opportunity to star, he's going to earn some serious money and playing time.I'm surprised this hasn't gotten a bump after a very interesting debut. 2 catches/29 yards and an awesome game-winning TD (!) on 5 targets. He seemed to play in most 3WR sets, and the team definitely drew up a few plays just to try to get the ball in his hands, the TD foremost among them. On one hand, that's a good thing; on the other, it raises questions on how many looks he's really going to get on garden variety plays that aren't designed just for him.
In dynasty, he's obviously shown some pretty impressive stuff already. What about redraft? The first week is going to see guys like Hurns, Quick, Robert Woods, and Andrew Hawkins come off the wire--where does Brown fit in, given the Cardinals commitment to getting him involved vs. his role as the #4 receiving option?