K-9 Vick out for the year? (1 Viewer)

[Big Score]

BIG SORE, Here you go, a named source.

BUCHANAN SAYS VICK FIGHTS DOGS

http://www.620wdae.com/pages/big_dog.html

In a Friday afternoon interview with our buddy Steve Duemig of 620 WDAE in Tampa, Chris Landry of Fox Sports Radio said that former Atlanta Falcons defensive back Ray Buchanan told Landry on the weekend of the NFL draft that Vick is directly involved in dog fighting.

Said Landry of his discussion with Buchanan: "He tells me that Michael has been into this dog fighting for so long that . . . .he not only knew about, he is behind all of it, he's paying for all of it. . . . Apparently, he's into it big time."

Landry also said that Vick was actively recruiting teammates to become involved in the "sport."

Buchanan was a member of the Falcons for the first three years of Vick's career.

That's not what I'm asking for 2stix, as "Big Play Ray" only ads to what the conveinience store clerk witnesses have already been saying. It's your claims of witnesses & other witnesses coming forth, that have actually seen Vick attending organized dog fight(s)....that I'm asking for confirmation of. That's what is important for the authorities to build a successful case & prosecute Vick.

Even more important, for the authorities to get a felony conviction under VA law (according to the WAVY-TV reporter interview that you've linked us to), they need witnesses that saw Vick as one of the handlers initiating the dog to fight(s).

Again, I figure you just a little carried away in your exuberance on this story.

Now that's not to say the authorities won't find witnesses, just that there aren't any....YET!!

 

[Big Score]

Link

UPDATE: Surry County Commonwealth Attorney denies evidence in Michael Vick investigation

May 11, 2007 11:18 PM

WAVY TV spoke exclusively with the Surry County Commonwealth's Attorney, Gerald Poindexter on Friday. Poindexter will decide whether or not the Atlanta Falcons quarterback will face any charges.

Sources close to the investigation have said they have compiled substantial evidence and have now turned it over to the Surry County Commonwealth's Attorney. On Friday, Poindexter said that was not true.

Several police sources from different agencies have said there is evidence of dog fighting on Michael Vick's Surry County property and they are convinced Vick is directly tied to it.

Friday, Vick remained tight lipped about the investigation. Poindexter said there is no rush to bring charges on anyone. "This is not a witch hunt, okay? I won't be driven by people who hate Vick or people who love dogs," Poindexter said.

Sources said Poindexter was at Vick's property the day of the bust and investigators pointed out each piece of evidence including blood soaked rugs and scarred, wounded animals. Poindexter denied that he had seen scarred dogs, though our video of the property clearly showed dogs with scars on their faces.

Vick has this guy in his wallet, Check out this crooked sob.http://wavy.com/global/video/popup/pop_pla...wavy.com/Global

A simple "no comment" would have been more professional. Even Vick/Mexico knows that.

My guess is that after the scandal with the DA & Duke players, Poindexter is playing it extremely safe & carefully watching his words. No way he wants to jeporadize this case.

 

[KellysHeroes]

Two sources in law enforcement tell WVEC in Virginia that Michael Vick was an active participant in dog fighting at his house in Surry County.

Police claim they found documents at the compound that "absolutely link Vick to the dog-fighting operation." Investigators have interviewed multiple people that say they witnessed Vick at dog fights. Virginia police are frustrated that district attorney Gerald Poindexter isn't pressing the issue.

http://www.wvec.com/news/topstories/storie...k.6c10df24.html

They have to do atleast 8 games for this ####

This is truly getting ugly....

 

[CA_7]

Joey Harrington's stock is rising

 

[Deadman31]

Wow! I have seriously never seen so much hatred for one player. Nothing has been proven yet and as far as Ray Buchanan, he just denied everything on NFL Total Access a little while ago(although he seems a little loopy).

 

[KellysHeroes]

Wow! I have seriously never seen so much hatred for one player. Nothing has been proven yet and as far as Ray Buchanan, he just denied everything on NFL Total Access a little while ago(although he seems a little loopy).

you must of missed this part

Police claim they found documents at the compound that "absolutely link Vick to the dog-fighting operation."

http://www.wvec.com/news/topstories/storie...k.6c10df24.html

 

[Deadman31]

Wow! I have seriously never seen so much hatred for one player. Nothing has been proven yet and as far as Ray Buchanan, he just denied everything on NFL Total Access a little while ago(although he seems a little loopy).

you must of missed this part

Police claim they found documents at the compound that "absolutely link Vick to the dog-fighting operation."

http://www.wvec.com/news/topstories/storie...k.6c10df24.html

I must have missed the part where you believe everything you read.

 

[fatness]

Two sources in law enforcement tell WVEC in Virginia that Michael Vick was an active participant in dog fighting at his house in Surry County.

Police claim they found documents at the compound that "absolutely link Vick to the dog-fighting operation." Investigators have interviewed multiple people that say they witnessed Vick at dog fights. Virginia police are frustrated that district attorney Gerald Poindexter isn't pressing the issue.

http://www.wvec.com/news/topstories/storie...k.6c10df24.html

The word "police" does not appear in that article.

Two different sources in law enforcement

 

[Loomba]

Don't mean to hijack this at all, but am I the only more than a little annoyed with how the pundits are spinning this developing story?

When it first broke, there were plenty of reports and rumours of Vick's involvement or, at least, knowledge of what was going on. But the popular fantasy analysis at the time was that this wasn't going to effect Vick very much on the field, notwithstanding the very bad smell this had. I felt then there was a real risk this would affect him on the field, as the new look NFL under Goodell won't stand for this, especially from a high profile player. ESPECIALLY, from a high profile player.

Now, I read how everyone one now thinks Vick's season or at least part of it is at risk as more of the same kind of reports and rumours are coming to light. And I now am reading how we have been told by the analysts that this is looking bad and that it could affect his season, just as we have been reporting all along...

Please.

 

[Da Guru]

This could get ugly.

I heard on ESPN Radio that some animal rights people are getting involved.

 

[KellysHeroes]

Two sources in law enforcement tell WVEC in Virginia that Michael Vick was an active participant in dog fighting at his house in Surry County.

Police claim they found documents at the compound that "absolutely link Vick to the dog-fighting operation." Investigators have interviewed multiple people that say they witnessed Vick at dog fights. Virginia police are frustrated that district attorney Gerald Poindexter isn't pressing the issue.

http://www.wvec.com/news/topstories/storie...k.6c10df24.html

The word "police" does not appear in that article.

Two different sources in law enforcement

OMG...........................1st 2 paragraphs

Two different sources in law enforcement say NFL quarterback Michael Vick not only knew about the dog fighting at a house he owned, but that he was an active participant at the fights that allegedly took place behind the house.

When investigators took a peek behind Vick’s property last month, they found dozens of pit bulls with cuts and scars. They discovered a fighting ring, treadmills and blood soaked carpeting, but they also found documents they say, "Absolutely link Vick to the dog-fighting operation."

you don't think the investigators are the police

 

[redman]

If he is brought down by the Feds...and I think thats a big if at this point...but if there is an investigation you can be assured that Goodell will be all over Vick. RG doesn't seem to care if a player is popular or not. I am sure before Pacman had his latest run in with the law that he was a crowd favorite at the games last year.

I just wanted to take this opportunity to remind everyone that Playmakers was cancelled because it cast the NFL in a negative light. Please continue your discussion.

 

[fatness]

POSTED 7:48 a.m. EDT, May 12, 2007 PER PFT

ANOTHER BOMBSHELL: BUCHANAN SAYS VICK FIGHTS DOGS

In a Friday afternoon interview with our buddy Steve Duemig of 620 WDAE in Tampa, Chris Landry of Fox Sports Radio said that former Atlanta Falcons defensive back Ray Buchanan told Landry on the weekend of the NFL draft that Vick is directly involved in dog fighting.

Said Landry of his discussion with Buchanan: "He tells me that Michael has been into this dog fighting for so long that . . . .he not only knew about, he is behind all of it, he's paying for all of it. . . . Apparently, he's into it big time."

Landry also said that Vick was actively recruiting teammates to become involved in the "sport." The audio of the Landry interview can be heard right here.

Buchanan was a member of the Falcons for the first three years of Vick's career.

It'll be interesting to see what Buchanan has to say when someone calls him up in response to this item.

Not quite.

Buchanan denies Vick comments

Former Falcons DB says he knows nothing of QB's dogfighting involvement

By STEVE WYCHE

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Published on: 05/14/07

Former Falcons player Ray Buchanan denied comments attributed to him during a radio talk show about having direct knowledge of Falcons quarterback Michael Vick being involved in illegal dogfighting.

"I don't know anything about Mike being involved in dogfighting, and that's for real, coming from the Mouth of the South," Buchanan told the Journal-Constitution Monday. "For me to say something like that is wrong because I'd never throw another player under the bus. I don't know and I didn't say anything about Mike Vick, who I know, who I live by, having anything to do with dogfighting.

"All I know is what everybody else knows, and that's the stuff I see on the news or read about.".......

.......Buchanan, a teammate of Vick from 2001-03, was steadfast in his assertion that Landry spoke out of line and was using him to legitimize rumors and innuendo that have circulated about the dogfighting investigation.

"That stuff he said I said is stuff he was saying to me, that 'He heard this and he heard that,'" Buchanan said. "I told him that I didn't have common knowledge about that. I told him that I knew that Mike loves dogs. Everybody knows that Mike loves his dogs. But I never heard anything about Mike and dogfighting.

"I did make a joke about Mike making $130 million and why would he need to be involved in dogfighting making that kind of money. Maybe he took something out of that to try and legitimize some of the things he came at me with. I guess he was trying to get something out of me."

Buchanan said he and Landry have a good relationship and that he did not know about Landry's comments until Monday morning when they appeared in the Journal-Constitution.

"Chris might want to retract some of the things he said," Buchanan said.

Link

 

[2stix]

The prosecuter involved is acting a little fishy. I wouldn't be surprised if he was a dog handler/fighter or was just flat paid off by vick.

http://www.wvec.com/video/topvideo-index.html?nvid=143764

After Duke, you figured prosecuters would tighten up.

However, there may be more to this guy and dogfighting.A few years back ('99?)

What happened next in the Butts case, however, was unusual:

Surry County District Court Judge Larry Palmer, at request of prosecutor

Gerald G. Poindexter, released Butts' 33 dogs back into his own custody

 

[CHEVEYO69]

The prosecuter involved is acting a little fishy. I wouldn't be surprised if he was a dog handler/fighter or was just flat paid off by vick.

http://www.wvec.com/video/topvideo-index.html?nvid=143764

After Duke, you figured prosecuters would tighten up.

However, there may be more to this guy and dogfighting.A few years back ('99?)

What happened next in the Butts case, however, was unusual:

Surry County District Court Judge Larry Palmer, at request of prosecutor

Gerald G. Poindexter, released Butts' 33 dogs back into his own custody

With the way this episode is playing out, don't be surprised if the FBI gets involved. IMO the justice system in Surry County needs some guidance. I never claim to be politically correct.

 

[ILUVBEER99]

This is like the Salem Witch Trials, sad.

Some people won't stop (regardless of evidence) until Vick gets in trouble.

The prosecutor, the only one that matters, doesn't seem to be interested in pursuing anything. I assume he knows what evidence, or lack thereof, there is and doesn't feel it is sufficient enough to charge Vick.

He might get a token game suspension from the NFL just to appease the public. sometimes you have to give in to the lunatic masses to get closure.

 

[BigRed]

This is like the Salem Witch Trials, sad.

You're right....in fact I think it's a conspiracy. Just like THE MAN when he was dissin on OJ.

 

[BusMan]

Just a small bump to get back to page one.

The PFT Rumor Mill really seems to think Vick is guilty, and they flat out said Buchanan is lying. I'd post their thoughts, but I'm too lazy so I'll just throw out a link instead: http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

 

[JZilla]

More witnesses

He is cooked in this case.

 

[chris1969]

If a picture says a thousand words, a video says your someone's prison #####.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=ApL....o&type=lgns

 

[fatness]

That's an interesting article for several reasons:

* The "lead investigator" in the case is an Animal Control officer.

* She doesn't know if tapes exist, and if so, where they are.

* Her evidence is "years of talk".

* She wants the prosecutor to charge Vick anyway.

To sum up, the "investigators" being mentioned in all the stories so far are Animal Control Officers.

The lead investigator in the case of dog-fighting accusations against Atlanta quarterback Michael Vick said Monday that she believes there is substantial evidence to eventually tie Vick directly to the felony crime.

That evidence could eventually include videotapes of Vick at matches. Kathy Strouse, the Animal Control coordinator for the City of Chesapeake in Virginia, said Monday that she has received a tip from what is described as a "reliable source" that tapes of Vick exist that would tie him directly to the burgeoning scandal and a possible felony charge.

"We don't know where (the tapes) are or if they do indeed exist, but I have been told that they are out there," said Strouse, who is also affiliated with two other organizations involved in the welfare of animals. "Without knowing where they are, there's no possibility of getting a search warrant at this point."

Regardless, Strouse said she is "very confident" about eventually tying Vick directly to the dog fighting based on the evidence she and other investigators have gathered. The information has come after years of talk throughout the Newport News area where Vick grew up that he has been involved in dog fighting.

For her part, Strouse was not backing down and essentially challenged Surry County Commonwealth attorney Gerald Poindexter to charge Vick. Last week, Poindexter made statements indicating he was reluctant to charge anyone with dog fighting.

Link if you missed it in the post above

 

[3C's]

What I don't understand is why there are so many different municipalities involved. The "lead investigator" is from the (independent) city of Chesapeake. The prosecutor is from Surry County. And the house (supposedly) is in Smithfield, which is in Isle of Wight County.

 

[Tillmanisahero]

This is like the Salem Witch Trials, sad.

You're right....in fact I think it's a conspiracy. Just like THE MAN when he was dissin on OJ.

The Vick apologists here are hilarious! I hope it isn't because they have him on their dynasty squad. It seems to be a well know fact that Vick is a dogfighter which in my book puts him just one step above a child molester. The fact that some people are trying to excuse or explain it away is funny and sad at the same time.Your OJ comment is right on target!

 

[Tillmanisahero]

What I don't understand is why there are so many different municipalities involved. The "lead investigator" is from the (independent) city of Chesapeake. The prosecutor is from Surry County. And the house (supposedly) is in Smithfield, which is in Isle of Wight County.

Because dogfight rings are usually spread out at several locations, I would guess his property was just one of many on the "circuit".

 

[Big Score]

You know, I'd actually be surprised if there's any video tapes.

Dog fighting, while not hidden as much as say drug running, is still very illegal. I highly doubt the organizers of these fights, are happily letting the crowd bring their camcorders to tape away.

Now surreptitious cell phone photographs seems far more plausible to me & I'd be about 99.9% certain that if Vick was ever present at a dog fight, there's photo evidence somewhere....given his celebrity status & all.

 

[Joe Bryant]

You know, I'd actually be surprised if there's any video tapes. Dog fighting, while not hidden as much as say drug running, is still very illegal. I highly doubt the organizers of these fights, are happily letting the crowd bring their camcorders to tape away.Now surreptitious cell phone photographs seems far more plausible to me & I'd be about 99.9% certain that if Vick was ever present at a dog fight, there's photo evidence somewhere....given his celebrity status & all.

Hi bs,That's been my angle on this. It's illegal, but just below the surface. There are lots of people involved. If it's true, it'll be very well known among a lot of people. J

 

[Traders2001]

You all very well know that nothing is going to happen it s so obvious.

So all those arguments here are a total waste of time .

 

[Da Guru]

You know, I'd actually be surprised if there's any video tapes. Dog fighting, while not hidden as much as say drug running, is still very illegal. I highly doubt the organizers of these fights, are happily letting the crowd bring their camcorders to tape away.Now surreptitious cell phone photographs seems far more plausible to me & I'd be about 99.9% certain that if Vick was ever present at a dog fight, there's photo evidence somewhere....given his celebrity status & all.

Hi bs,That's been my angle on this. It's illegal, but just below the surface. There are lots of people involved. If it's true, it'll be very well known among a lot of people. J

Was watching something about this the other night. It was said that people care way more about dogs than drugs. That is why this could be a 'Sending a message suspension"

 

[WhoDat]

Wow! I have seriously never seen so much hatred for one player. Nothing has been proven yet and as far as Ray Buchanan, he just denied everything on NFL Total Access a little while ago(although he seems a little loopy due to the fact Blank and Co. just took their collective franchise foot out of his ***).

 

[Joe Bryant]

You know, I'd actually be surprised if there's any video tapes.

Dog fighting, while not hidden as much as say drug running, is still very illegal. I highly doubt the organizers of these fights, are happily letting the crowd bring their camcorders to tape away.

Now surreptitious cell phone photographs seems far more plausible to me & I'd be about 99.9% certain that if Vick was ever present at a dog fight, there's photo evidence somewhere....given his celebrity status & all.

Hi bs,That's been my angle on this. It's illegal, but just below the surface. There are lots of people involved. If it's true, it'll be very well known among a lot of people.

J

Was watching something about this the other night. It was said that people care way more about dogs than drugs. That is why this could be a 'Sending a message suspension"

Yes DG. You'll see that on the boards in the Free For All Forum. Lots of people will get way more excited about things like this where animal abuse is involved than they will other crimes.One other point that may have already been brought up that I think is relevant:

Last February, the Atlanta Falcons' Jonathan Babineaux was charged with animal cruelty for allegedly beating to death his girlfriend's pit bull. Charges against Babineaux are pending...

http://www.ajc.com/search/content/opinion/...0510edvick.html

This is not a Vick only issue.J

 

[spec1alk]

Yes DG. You'll see that on the boards in the Free For All Forum. Lots of people will get way more excited about things like this where animal abuse is involved than they will other crimes.

One other point that may have already been brought up that I think is relevant:

Last February, the Atlanta Falcons' Jonathan Babineaux was charged with animal cruelty for allegedly beating to death his girlfriend's pit bull. Charges against Babineaux are pending...

http://www.ajc.com/search/content/opinion/...0510edvick.html

This is not a Vick only issue.J

I agree. Drug abuse is bad, but essentially is only hurting ones-self. Animal abuse/cruelty hurts the animal. I am not a dog or cat person by any means, but these guys fighting dogs bugs me alot more than if they are smoking a little grass.On a related note, its likley that the american kennel society/club will use this incident to get on their soap box and get recognition for what is probably a larger problem than most of us would like to admit.

As far as I'm concerned, this has been a long time coming. I hope the commissioner really sticks it to Vick. He has an attitude that he is above the law and that because he is an integral piece of the Falcons he can get away with it. I would love to see him suspended for a year or longer and for the falcons to sue him for a large chunk of his signing bonus, more than what would amount to the year suspension for the black eye it has given to the Falcons organization.

I have not read this entire thread, but what do falcons fans think of this?

 

[ILUVBEER99]

Can someone please PM me if they ever find any evidence linking Vick to dogfighting or get some "named" sources?

So far it's the same thing everyday, no evidence and unnamed sources that probably don't even exist.

 

[Da Guru]

It just seems like all of Vicks antics have finally caught up with him

The chickens are coming home to roost.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Can someone please PM me if they ever find any evidence linking Vick to dogfighting or get some "named" sources?

Would you call owning the property where the dog fighting was happening a "link"?J

 

[LBH]

I think some of the Vick owners in this thread are in denial. Vick is in big trouble and Id be surprised if the Falcons arent really worried right now. JMO

 

[redman]

Just a small bump to get back to page one.

The PFT Rumor Mill really seems to think Vick is guilty, and they flat out said Buchanan is lying. I'd post their thoughts, but I'm too lazy so I'll just throw out a link instead: http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

The telling part of Buchanan's statement was that he admitted that he wouldn't rat out another player even if he knew he was guilty. Landry has no reason to jeopardize his relationship with players as a NFL analyst and correspondent by making up something out of whole cloth. I think Buchanan flapped his gums and then scrambled to do damage control in his own dim-witted way after he realized he'd come off as a snitch. Anyone else wondering what Jim Mora, Jr. is thinking right now?

 

[Joe Bryant]

Just a small bump to get back to page one.

The PFT Rumor Mill really seems to think Vick is guilty, and they flat out said Buchanan is lying. I'd post their thoughts, but I'm too lazy so I'll just throw out a link instead: http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

The telling part of Buchanan's statement was that he admitted that he wouldn't rat out another player even if he knew he was guilty. Landry has no reason to jeopardize his relationship with players as a NFL analyst and correspondent by making up something out of whole cloth. I think Buchanan flapped his gums and then scrambled to do damage control in his own dim-witted way after he realized he'd come off as a snitch. Anyone else wondering what Jim Mora, Jr. is thinking right now?

Agreed redman. Buchanon's main thing seemed to be "I'd never say that because I'm not a snitch". Very different from "Mike isn't involved"J

 

[ILUVBEER99]

Can someone please PM me if they ever find any evidence linking Vick to dogfighting or get some "named" sources?

Would you call owning the property where the dog fighting was happening a "link"?J

Just owning the property doesn't make it enough of a link to charge Vick.Landlords sometimes have people commit crimes on their properties, they aren't held accountable for their tenants, so why should Vick be?When I was in college there was a group of kids caught for dealing drugs out of the house they lived in, which one of their parents owned. It wasn't even considered to charge the parents.This is a witchhunt at this point.If solid evidence is found then i'll be the first to say Vick should get in serious trouble, but at this point there is absolutely no evidence that the public is aware of that makes is right to be bashing him like what is happening in this thread.Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?

 

[Joe Bryant]

Can someone please PM me if they ever find any evidence linking Vick to dogfighting or get some "named" sources?

Would you call owning the property where the dog fighting was happening a "link"?J

Just owning the property doesn't make it enough of a link to charge Vick.Landlords sometimes have people commit crimes on their properties, they aren't held accountable for their tenants, so why should Vick be?

When I was in college there was a group of kids caught for dealing drugs out of the house they lived in, which one of their parents owned. It wasn't even considered to charge the parents.

This is a witchhunt at this point.

If solid evidence is found then i'll be the first to say Vick should get in serious trouble, but at this point there is absolutely no evidence that the public is aware of that makes is right to be bashing him like what is happening in this thread.

Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?

Why is it a "witch hunt"? Looks to me like there's quite a bit of smoke that might make one think there's fire somewhere.Vick owns a kennell selling Pit Bulls (complete with the standard "we don't endorse fighting" disclaimers. He's not an idiot)

Vick's cousin arrested with equipment indicative of a professional dog fighting business operating at Vick's house.

Ray Buchanon reportedly says Vick very much into dog fighting.

Ray Buchanon says he didn't say that and he wouldn't throw anyone under the bus like that.

Several sources (un named at this point) say Vick knows what is going on and involved.

Source says she understands there could be video linking Vick to dog fighting.

Part of the issue here too is that this is serious business. This isn't like he was smoking a joint and oh boy he's in trouble for being such a terrible guy. Dog fighting of the kind we're talking about here is bad stuff. Some disturbing stuff here. http://www.workingpitbull.com/dogfighting.htm Barely safe for work, I guess. But very depressing.

How is that a "witch hunt"? Seriously? Looks to me it's just what Arthur Blank has said: The story is devolping badly.

Do you seriously think this is the same as college kids dealing drugs from a house their parents owned?

J

 

[redman]

Can someone please PM me if they ever find any evidence linking Vick to dogfighting or get some "named" sources?

Would you call owning the property where the dog fighting was happening a "link"?J

Just owning the property doesn't make it enough of a link to charge Vick.Landlords sometimes have people commit crimes on their properties, they aren't held accountable for their tenants, so why should Vick be?

When I was in college there was a group of kids caught for dealing drugs out of the house they lived in, which one of their parents owned. It wasn't even considered to charge the parents.

This is a witchhunt at this point.

If solid evidence is found then i'll be the first to say Vick should get in serious trouble, but at this point there is absolutely no evidence that the public is aware of that makes is right to be bashing him like what is happening in this thread.

Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?

Why is it a "witch hunt"? Looks to me like there's quite a bit of smoke that might make one think there's fire somewhere.Vick owns a kennell selling Pit Bulls (complete with the standard "we don't endorse fighting" disclaimers. He's not an idiot)

Vick's cousin arrested with equipment indicative of a professional dog fighting business operating at Vick's house.

Ray Buchanon reportedly says Vick very much into dog fighting.

Ray Buchanon says he didn't say that and he wouldn't throw anyone under the bus like that.

Several sources (un named at this point) say Vick knows what is going on and involved.

Source says she understands there could be video linking Vick to dog fighting.

Part of the issue here too is that this is serious business. This isn't like he was smoking a joint and oh boy he's in trouble for being such a terrible guy. Dog fighting of the kind we're talking about here is bad stuff. Some disturbing stuff here. http://www.workingpitbull.com/dogfighting.htm Barely safe for work, I guess. But very depressing.

How is that a "witch hunt"? Seriously? Looks to me it's just what Arthur Blank has said: The story is devolping badly.

Do you seriously think this is the same as college kids dealing drugs from a house their parents owned?

J

Selling joints out of a house can be done far more discreetly than having dozens of pit bulls and fighting equipment, to speak nothing of the "training" which I understand commonly occurs. No way the landlord can be ignorant of that. No way.

 

[Kung Fu Ballsac]

Can someone please PM me if they ever find any evidence linking Vick to dogfighting or get some "named" sources?

Would you call owning the property where the dog fighting was happening a "link"?J

Just owning the property doesn't make it enough of a link to charge Vick.Landlords sometimes have people commit crimes on their properties, they aren't held accountable for their tenants, so why should Vick be?When I was in college there was a group of kids caught for dealing drugs out of the house they lived in, which one of their parents owned. It wasn't even considered to charge the parents.This is a witchhunt at this point.If solid evidence is found then i'll be the first to say Vick should get in serious trouble, but at this point there is absolutely no evidence that the public is aware of that makes is right to be bashing him like what is happening in this thread.Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?

You're shtickin', right?

 

[Big Score]

One other point that may have already been brought up that I think is relevant:

Last February, the Atlanta Falcons' Jonathan Babineaux was charged with animal cruelty for allegedly beating to death his girlfriend's pit bull. Charges against Babineaux are pending...

http://www.ajc.com/search/content/opinion/...0510edvick.html

This is not a Vick only issue.J

Not really in the same context J. What happend with Babineaux & his isolated animal cruelty charge, is a completely different situation, than someone specifically & methodically engaging in organized dog fighting.Babineaux & his girlfriend had just gotten into one humdinger of a fight. After she left the premises, Babineaux took his frustrations out on her dog.

While I in no way condone Babineaux's actions & lack of self control & feel sorry for the dog, I'm just glad he was able to exercise just enough self control, to not to beat another human being to death.

 

[Mungo Burrows]

Can someone please PM me if they ever find any evidence linking Vick to dogfighting or get some "named" sources?

Would you call owning the property where the dog fighting was happening a "link"?J

Just owning the property doesn't make it enough of a link to charge Vick.Landlords sometimes have people commit crimes on their properties, they aren't held accountable for their tenants, so why should Vick be?

When I was in college there was a group of kids caught for dealing drugs out of the house they lived in, which one of their parents owned. It wasn't even considered to charge the parents.

This is a witchhunt at this point.

If solid evidence is found then i'll be the first to say Vick should get in serious trouble, but at this point there is absolutely no evidence that the public is aware of that makes is right to be bashing him like what is happening in this thread.

Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?

Innocent until proven guilty applies to the government's ability to punish people for violating the law. It has nothing to do with a private enterprise's ability to punish its employees for conduct damaging the enterprise. Goodell's suspensions are about punishing players for putting the league in a bad light whether or not the players hire good enough lawyers to avoid punishment from the government. It's about image and perception, and Vick is quickly losing ground in these areas. He is quickly becoming posterboy for the "NFL is full of barbarians with fighting dogs" sentiment which is not unlike Pacman being posterboy for the "NFL players are hoodlums out partying and getting violent with their posse" or Chris Henry being posterboy for the "NFL Players are out-of-control drunks". It's the public perception that Goodell is trying to control, and whether or not a conviction comes from this, if this story gets much more legs, I'm guessing Vick will likely be suspended for not having enough oversight to prevent this from happening on his property (and if it's not by him, it was by his relatives, not some faceless tenants) in order to stem the tide of public opinion. The fact that previous actions have gotten him negative press (the airport/water bottle, Ron Mexico, etc.) will not help his cause.

 

[ILUVBEER99]

Why is it a "witch hunt"? Looks to me like there's quite a bit of smoke that might make one think there's fire somewhere.

Vick owns a kennell selling Pit Bulls (complete with the standard "we don't endorse fighting" disclaimers. He's not an idiot)

Vick's cousin arrested with equipment indicative of a professional dog fighting business operating at Vick's house.

Ray Buchanon reportedly says Vick very much into dog fighting.

Ray Buchanon says he didn't say that and he wouldn't throw anyone under the bus like that.

Several sources (un named at this point) say Vick knows what is going on and involved.

Source says she understands there could be video linking Vick to dog fighting.

Part of the issue here too is that this is serious business. This isn't like he was smoking a joint and oh boy he's in trouble for being such a terrible guy. Dog fighting of the kind we're talking about here is bad stuff. Some disturbing stuff here. http://www.workingpitbull.com/dogfighting.htm Barely safe for work, I guess. But very depressing.

How is that a "witch hunt"? Seriously? Looks to me it's just what Arthur Blank has said: The story is devolping badly.

Do you seriously think this is the same as college kids dealing drugs from a house their parents owned?

J

It is a witchhunt because at this point there is no evidence that makes it right for people to be calling for blood. Some in threads on Vick have said he should be thrown in a ring to get ripped apart by animals, you don't think that is being a bit too bloodthirsty based on what sketchy and unreliable evidence there is at this point.I agree this is serious, and of course it isn't the same as kids dealing drugs, my point was that if there is no evidence that Vick was aware of dogfighting that he won't be charged solely because the tenent who lived on his property is guilty of a crime. Many are saying just because it's his property that he is responsible, that isn't true, if it was there would be no landlords since none would risk being responsible for people living on their properties.

Vick's name makes stories, and reporters will do anything for a story, so it's hard for me to look at him as guilty when all we have are reporters using "unnamed" sources with no hard evidence.

If concrete evidence comes to light that Vick was aware and involved in dogfighting then i'm all for him being charged to the full extent of our law..until then i don't think it's fair that he is already guilty in most people's minds.

 

[ILUVBEER99]

Innocent until proven guilty applies to the government's ability to punish people for violating the law. It has nothing to do with a private enterprise's ability to punish its employees for conduct damaging the enterprise. Goodell's suspensions are about punishing players for putting the league in a bad light whether or not the players hire good enough lawyers to avoid punishment from the government.

It's about image and perception, and Vick is quickly losing ground in these areas. He is quickly becoming posterboy for the "NFL is full of barbarians with fighting dogs" sentiment which is not unlike Pacman being posterboy for the "NFL players are hoodlums out partying and getting violent with their posse" or Chris Henry being posterboy for the "NFL Players are out-of-control drunks". It's the public perception that Goodell is trying to control, and whether or not a conviction comes from this, if this story gets much more legs, I'm guessing Vick will likely be suspended for not having enough oversight to prevent this from happening on his property (and if it's not by him, it was by his relatives, not some faceless tenants) in order to stem the tide of public opinion. The fact that previous actions have gotten him negative press (the airport/water bottle, Ron Mexico, etc.) will not help his cause.

I agree with you as far as a NFL suspension is concerned. The NFL is a business and they have to appease the public regardless whether Vick is guilty or not. Giving Vick a token 1-2 game suspension to make the fans happy is a sound business decision.

 

[Mungo Burrows]

Innocent until proven guilty applies to the government's ability to punish people for violating the law. It has nothing to do with a private enterprise's ability to punish its employees for conduct damaging the enterprise. Goodell's suspensions are about punishing players for putting the league in a bad light whether or not the players hire good enough lawyers to avoid punishment from the government.

It's about image and perception, and Vick is quickly losing ground in these areas. He is quickly becoming posterboy for the "NFL is full of barbarians with fighting dogs" sentiment which is not unlike Pacman being posterboy for the "NFL players are hoodlums out partying and getting violent with their posse" or Chris Henry being posterboy for the "NFL Players are out-of-control drunks". It's the public perception that Goodell is trying to control, and whether or not a conviction comes from this, if this story gets much more legs, I'm guessing Vick will likely be suspended for not having enough oversight to prevent this from happening on his property (and if it's not by him, it was by his relatives, not some faceless tenants) in order to stem the tide of public opinion. The fact that previous actions have gotten him negative press (the airport/water bottle, Ron Mexico, etc.) will not help his cause.

I agree with you as far as a NFL suspension is concerned. The NFL is a business and they have to appease the public regardless whether Vick is guilty or not. Giving Vick a token 1-2 game suspension to make the fans happy is a sound business decision.

I would guess Goodell is smart enough to know that everyone would see 1-2 games as a token suspension. Because he is so high profile, Vick will probably get a fair amount of leeway, but once the league becomes convinced that something must be done, I suspect they will come down fairly hard to make sure they won't be seen as playing favorites. IF things get to the point where he is suspended, I'd be shocked if it was less than 4 games.

 

[B-Deep]

Why is it a "witch hunt"? Looks to me like there's quite a bit of smoke that might make one think there's fire somewhere.

Vick owns a kennell selling Pit Bulls (complete with the standard "we don't endorse fighting" disclaimers. He's not an idiot)

Vick's cousin arrested with equipment indicative of a professional dog fighting business operating at Vick's house.

Ray Buchanon reportedly says Vick very much into dog fighting.

Ray Buchanon says he didn't say that and he wouldn't throw anyone under the bus like that.

Several sources (un named at this point) say Vick knows what is going on and involved.

Source says she understands there could be video linking Vick to dog fighting.

Part of the issue here too is that this is serious business. This isn't like he was smoking a joint and oh boy he's in trouble for being such a terrible guy. Dog fighting of the kind we're talking about here is bad stuff. Some disturbing stuff here. http://www.workingpitbull.com/dogfighting.htm Barely safe for work, I guess. But very depressing.

How is that a "witch hunt"? Seriously? Looks to me it's just what Arthur Blank has said: The story is devolping badly.

Do you seriously think this is the same as college kids dealing drugs from a house their parents owned?

J

It is a witchhunt because at this point there is no evidence that makes it right for people to be calling for blood. Some in threads on Vick have said he should be thrown in a ring to get ripped apart by animals, you don't think that is being a bit too bloodthirsty based on what sketchy and unreliable evidence there is at this point.I agree this is serious, and of course it isn't the same as kids dealing drugs, my point was that if there is no evidence that Vick was aware of dogfighting that he won't be charged solely because the tenent who lived on his property is guilty of a crime. Many are saying just because it's his property that he is responsible, that isn't true, if it was there would be no landlords since none would risk being responsible for people living on their properties.

Vick's name makes stories, and reporters will do anything for a story, so it's hard for me to look at him as guilty when all we have are reporters using "unnamed" sources with no hard evidence.

If concrete evidence comes to light that Vick was aware and involved in dogfighting then i'm all for him being charged to the full extent of our law..until then i don't think it's fair that he is already guilty in most people's minds.

how will they find hat evidence if they do not investigate? Since you were calling the investigation a which hunt, I assume you want everything to just stop? Does the fact tha he said he was rarely at the house when several witnesses say he was there all the time mean anything?

 

[sho nuff]

Wow! I have seriously never seen so much hatred for one player. Nothing has been proven yet and as far as Ray Buchanan, he just denied everything on NFL Total Access a little while ago(although he seems a little loopy).

I think it is pretty obvious that everyone is going on the assumption that if this is true...something needs to be done.

 

[ILUVBEER99]

how will they find hat evidence if they do not investigate? Since you were calling the investigation a which hunt, I assume you want everything to just stop? Does the fact tha he said he was rarely at the house when several witnesses say he was there all the time mean anything?

You mean these "unnamed" sources? Those mean close to nothing and are a reporters tool to make stories.I don't want the investigation to stop, i think the general public who are aware of no real evidence should stop until they have sufficient evidence to go on their bloodthirsty attacks.Show me some REAL evidence and i'll be fully on board with him getting punished as much as our laws allow.

 

[sho nuff]

Can someone please PM me if they ever find any evidence linking Vick to dogfighting or get some "named" sources?So far it's the same thing everyday, no evidence and unnamed sources that probably don't even exist.

So...pretty much all that was needed to suspend Pacman for a year?Ok...that is a bit of an exaggeration as there were other things...but much of it came up after the Vegas incident...and because it was pacman...who many consider a thug already...everyone jumped to believe the words of the club owner who was not even at the place during the incident (and turns out much of what he said simply cannot be supported with facts).