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K-9 Vick out for the year? (1 Viewer)
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BusMan
Footballguy
I get your side of this 99, but I haven't noticed anyone in the last few pages of the thread going on "bloodthirsty attacks." I don't think anyone should go on said attacks, but it sounds like you're raging against something that isn't there.This is a huge story, for both the NFL and FF. Hopefully we can keep this thread to updates, breaking news, speculation, and perceived impact. Throwing out phrases like "witch hunt" and "bloodthirsty" aren't moving the thread forward.
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ILUVBEER99
Footballguy
I haven't forgot, i'll be more than willing if Vick is charged and convicted of this heinous crime.Don't confuse me defending Vick with being ok with what he's charged with, i'm against animal cruelty as much as anyone.
Hi BS,I mean it's relevant in that it's another animal cruelty issue with another Falcon. It's just another
in the issue.J
ILUVBEER99
Footballguy
Maybe it wasn't in this thread, but in other Vick threads on this issue the attacks have been bloodthirsty. Calling for him to fight in an octogon and get beat to a pulp for peoples enjoyment and things like that.When 99% of people have already convicted him in their mind it's gonna make me look like the bad guy no matter what i do.
It's a process. Investigation leads to evidence. Or leads to no evidence. We are still in the investigation part of this one.J
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ILUVBEER99
Footballguy
That's really all i'm saying. As the public, let's wait for the investigation to take place before we consider him guilty.As of now i'd say 90%+ in this thread have already found him guilty, which isn't fair to Vick.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Because we will be the ones to judge him? How is what gets posted on this board..."not fair to Vick"?How does it really affect the guy? Especially when the evidence talked about thus far...seems to be showing exactly what people are saying about his involvement to this point.
Given how much man love you've shown to Vick, I'm not sure if he were found to be drenched in dog blood, video taping himself giving a signed confession holding a dead dog would be enough for you. There is such a thing as circumstantial evidence you know. To wit:1. Vick owns the house.2. It takes a HUGE amount of money to run an operation this big.3. His cousin is unemployed.4. Witnesses claim that Vick bought a bunch of dog supplies near this house.IF 1-4 are found to be true, this should be enough for a conviction as they will follow the money trail back to Vick.
ILUVBEER99
Footballguy
1/3/4 don't mean much, if it can be proven he knowingly funded the fighting then of course that is solid evidence.I'm done in this thread, i'll let the legal system deal with it. The speculation is just tiresome.If Mike Vick didn't know that the dogs bit, then you must acquit.
Something else I wondered about.I keep hearing "cousin". How close is Vick to this cousin? Is he like a lifelong best friend type cousin?How many other relatives has Vick purchased homes for? I'm guessing he has other relatives as closely related as this cousin. Do all of them have homes?If Vick had 15 unemployed cousins and had purchased $750,000 homes for all 15 of them and had never set foot in them, it would look a lot more credible.If this random cousin is pretty much in the same situation as Vick's other relatives yet this guy was the one guy Vick bought a home for, it would look a whole lot more like a front for Vick's dog fighting operation.Just a thought.J
Ozymandias
Footballguy
But if he knew the dogs were nailed, then he must be jailed.
Don't take this the wrong way 99, but this situation and your comments make me think of OJ Simpson.That being said, even if Vick is not found guilty of dog fighting do you feel he should not be punished in some way by the league?Not guilty and innocent are 2 different things and I would also like to remind you that its not like this is the first incident with Vick (giving the fans the bird, water bottle incident, ron mexico).That being said, the people saying vick should be thrown into the octagon and all that nonsense are no better than the people who participated in the dog fighting to begin with. Returning one heinous crime for another is not an answer.
BigRed
Footballguy
back off you racist hater.
Tackling Dummies
Footballguy
In case you wanted to support the Vick Kennels and you're in the market for a Presna Canario, here you go-
http://www.vicksk9kennels.com/
http://www.vicksk9kennels.com/
5-ish Finkle
Footballguy
Hell, I wanna be that dog. "Featured stud"? "Dog's life" my ###! Get fed, get pampered and get to poke honeys for your trouble. Then you get pimped out on the web for it to boot. Now THAT'S the life.
So, maybe you gotta get in a scrap every now 'n again(spontaneous and unsanctioned, of course). Probably worth it. 
B-Deep
Footballguy
why are you defending vick then? you have no clue if he is guilty or what they will find, why wager he is innocent?of course, it could be that he has the cash and the lawyers to likely beat this guilty or not, or to plea bargain it down to where you can say he was not convicted of the major crime
B-Deep
Footballguy
did you know that 99% of the people exaggerate 99% of the time? This has been proven to be 100% true
kurtrudder
Footballguy
5 pages of this thread and we hardly touched on the fantasy football aspects of this issue. If Vick gets a big suspension then it's likely any other QB in Atlanta will not be much value and the Patrino will focus on the running game even more than they have in the past.
So what is the fallout here if Vick is out for much of the 2007 season? RB's in Atlanta get some more value? Which QB will do the job for the Falcons....Joey Harrington, D.J. Shockley, Chris Redman are all on the roster. We have all seen Harrington and I'm sure no one is still waiting on him to break out. Is there any chance in Bobby Patrino's system that any of these QB's could some how put up viable fantasy numbers for deep leagues?
So what is the fallout here if Vick is out for much of the 2007 season? RB's in Atlanta get some more value? Which QB will do the job for the Falcons....Joey Harrington, D.J. Shockley, Chris Redman are all on the roster. We have all seen Harrington and I'm sure no one is still waiting on him to break out. Is there any chance in Bobby Patrino's system that any of these QB's could some how put up viable fantasy numbers for deep leagues?
Tillmanisahero
Footballguy
I do volunteer work with Pit Bull rescues and local humane societies and I can tell you that many urban dog fighters do bring camcorders to fights to record fights for "Bragging" rights and for proof of "Gameness" for stud services. During raids we have found lots of tapes of dog fights. Of course most of the video is focused on the dog fight itself but sometimes you will get swing views of the crowd and I could see that at as a real possibility. I could also easily see some wanna be thug also want to capture Vick to show other buddies to prove how important they are.
Tillmanisahero
Footballguy
God I hope your are kidding....the Dog fighting world is a horrible world for the dogs.Hell, I wanna be that dog. "Featured stud"? "Dog's life" my ###! Get fed, get pampered and get to poke honeys for your trouble. Then you get pimped out on the web for it to boot. Now THAT'S the life.So, maybe you gotta get in a scrap every now 'n again(spontaneous and unsanctioned, of course). Probably worth it.
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Tillmanisahero
Footballguy
If for nothing else Vick show be get a felony charge of stupidity....
Here is a quote from his website...
At Mike Vick K-9 Kennels We Specialize In Breeding; AKC registered puppies ranging from rare Blue Nose Pittbull Terrias to the highly intelligent and powerful Presa Canario.
AKC does not recognize "Pittbulls Terrias" actually a "Pit Bull" is a type of dog. What they most likely mean is the American Pit Bull terrier recognized by the UKC or maybe the American Staffordshire Terrier recognized by the AKC. Also the Presa Canario is not recognized by the AKC.
The only person dumber than Vick's kennel master is the guy who buys a dog from that website.
Here is a quote from his website...
At Mike Vick K-9 Kennels We Specialize In Breeding; AKC registered puppies ranging from rare Blue Nose Pittbull Terrias to the highly intelligent and powerful Presa Canario.
AKC does not recognize "Pittbulls Terrias" actually a "Pit Bull" is a type of dog. What they most likely mean is the American Pit Bull terrier recognized by the UKC or maybe the American Staffordshire Terrier recognized by the AKC. Also the Presa Canario is not recognized by the AKC.
The only person dumber than Vick's kennel master is the guy who buys a dog from that website.
Exactly. You have to also assume the average guy attending a dog fight is an idiot. They don't think about Vick and evidence and all that. If anything, they seek him out as tillman said to show their buddies.J
Wow - The link is very disturbing. What does it say about a person involved in this type of activity?
That's exactly why Falcons fans should be worried about the possibility Vick could be involved.JJoe Bryant said:Wow - The link is very disturbing. What does it say about a person involved in this type of activity?
fatness
Footballguy
mad sweeney
Footballguy
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Stealthycat
Footballguy
http://content.hamptonroads.com/story.cfm?...6&ran=16138
Authorities investigating possible dog-fighting at property owned by NFL quarterback Michael Vick say they have a confidential informant who has seen the Newport News native at dog fights.
The informant “will place him at these dog fights, yes,” said Kathy Strouse, a member of the Virginia Animal Fighting Task Force who has helped in the investigation of Surry County property owned by Vick.
Mark Kumpf, a dog-fighting expert who has worked in animal control in both Norfolk and Newport News, said the informant Strouse named to him has helped in several prior criminal investigations and always provided “100 percent reliable” information. Kumpf is acting as a consultant to help investigators.
No charges have been filed in the case.
Surry County Commonwealth’s Attorney Gerald Poindexter told The Associated Press on Wednesday that as many as six to 10 people could be involved.
“I’m convinced from what I saw that dog-fighting has occurred down there, but who was involved in it I don’t know at this point,” Poindexter said in a telephone interview, noting that he saw what looked like blood spatters in a room over a garage.
“We’re going to find out.”
Vick, who plays for the Atlanta Falcons and was a star at Virginia Tech, has denied any knowledge of dog-fighting at the property and said he is never there. His attorney, Lawrence H. Woodward Jr., has declined to comment on the case and did not return phone calls Wednesday.
Authorities found 66 dogs – more than 50 of them pit bulls – and several items associated with dog-fighting in late April when they searched Vick’s Surry County property, about 20 miles from Smithfield.
The police originally were searching the home for drugs and drug paraphernalia after the arrest of Davon Boddie, a cousin of Vick’s who lived at the house. Boddie had given the address when police arrested him in Hampton on suspicion of possession of marijuana with the intent to distribute.
State police and sheriff’s investigators on the dog-fighting case are scheduled to meet Monday with Poindexter, said State Police 1st Sgt. Jake McCoury.
Vick sold the 15-acre property in Surry last week. A real estate agent asked to help with the sale said Vick was seeking $350,000 for the home, which was valued at $747,000 in county records. The buyer hasn’t been recorded in county records yet.
Participating in dog fights or allowing them on one’s property is a felony in Virginia punishable by up to five years in prison.
In January, for example, a Richmond jury recommended a four-year prison sentence for a man in a dog-fighting case that involved 16 pit bulls.
The jury convicted Stacey Albert Miller , 40 , of two counts of animal cruelty and one count of dog-fighting. A judge will issue his sentence in June.
Assistant Commonwealth’s Attorney Alexander Taylor, the prosecutor in the case, said he used all circumstantial evidence and no eye witnesses to convict Miller. Kumpf, who works in Ohio now, testified as an expert witness.
Taylor’s circumstantial evidence hinged on a multitude of items found at the house that suggested dog-fighting, such as heavily scarred dogs, medical supplies and treadmills for training.
Poindexter said investigators still are collecting evidence.
“It includes analyzing forensic evidence,” he said. “ It’s not traditional. You can’t go to the state sources that we usually have to do analysis of dog blood.”
Federal authorities may get involved in dog-fighting cases if illegal gambling is suspected and the operation is “of the magnitude that would warrant our resources,” said Patrick Brown, a spokesman for the Internal Revenue Service.
Brown said he is not aware of any prosecutions by the IRS for illegal dog- fighting in the commonwealth. However, the IRS is scrutinizing a ####-fighting operation in western Virginia to determine whether to seek criminal charges, Brown said.
Authorities investigating possible dog-fighting at property owned by NFL quarterback Michael Vick say they have a confidential informant who has seen the Newport News native at dog fights.
The informant “will place him at these dog fights, yes,” said Kathy Strouse, a member of the Virginia Animal Fighting Task Force who has helped in the investigation of Surry County property owned by Vick.
Mark Kumpf, a dog-fighting expert who has worked in animal control in both Norfolk and Newport News, said the informant Strouse named to him has helped in several prior criminal investigations and always provided “100 percent reliable” information. Kumpf is acting as a consultant to help investigators.
No charges have been filed in the case.
Surry County Commonwealth’s Attorney Gerald Poindexter told The Associated Press on Wednesday that as many as six to 10 people could be involved.
“I’m convinced from what I saw that dog-fighting has occurred down there, but who was involved in it I don’t know at this point,” Poindexter said in a telephone interview, noting that he saw what looked like blood spatters in a room over a garage.
“We’re going to find out.”
Vick, who plays for the Atlanta Falcons and was a star at Virginia Tech, has denied any knowledge of dog-fighting at the property and said he is never there. His attorney, Lawrence H. Woodward Jr., has declined to comment on the case and did not return phone calls Wednesday.
Authorities found 66 dogs – more than 50 of them pit bulls – and several items associated with dog-fighting in late April when they searched Vick’s Surry County property, about 20 miles from Smithfield.
The police originally were searching the home for drugs and drug paraphernalia after the arrest of Davon Boddie, a cousin of Vick’s who lived at the house. Boddie had given the address when police arrested him in Hampton on suspicion of possession of marijuana with the intent to distribute.
State police and sheriff’s investigators on the dog-fighting case are scheduled to meet Monday with Poindexter, said State Police 1st Sgt. Jake McCoury.
Vick sold the 15-acre property in Surry last week. A real estate agent asked to help with the sale said Vick was seeking $350,000 for the home, which was valued at $747,000 in county records. The buyer hasn’t been recorded in county records yet.
Participating in dog fights or allowing them on one’s property is a felony in Virginia punishable by up to five years in prison.
In January, for example, a Richmond jury recommended a four-year prison sentence for a man in a dog-fighting case that involved 16 pit bulls.
The jury convicted Stacey Albert Miller , 40 , of two counts of animal cruelty and one count of dog-fighting. A judge will issue his sentence in June.
Assistant Commonwealth’s Attorney Alexander Taylor, the prosecutor in the case, said he used all circumstantial evidence and no eye witnesses to convict Miller. Kumpf, who works in Ohio now, testified as an expert witness.
Taylor’s circumstantial evidence hinged on a multitude of items found at the house that suggested dog-fighting, such as heavily scarred dogs, medical supplies and treadmills for training.
Poindexter said investigators still are collecting evidence.
“It includes analyzing forensic evidence,” he said. “ It’s not traditional. You can’t go to the state sources that we usually have to do analysis of dog blood.”
Federal authorities may get involved in dog-fighting cases if illegal gambling is suspected and the operation is “of the magnitude that would warrant our resources,” said Patrick Brown, a spokesman for the Internal Revenue Service.
Brown said he is not aware of any prosecutions by the IRS for illegal dog- fighting in the commonwealth. However, the IRS is scrutinizing a ####-fighting operation in western Virginia to determine whether to seek criminal charges, Brown said.
Big Score
Footballguy
Of course Kathy Strouse has also said this...
Point 1. She "believes"
Point 2. She does not know if "these tapes even exist"
Point 3. Grant immunity from prosecution for these "reluctant to testify" witnesses, for their testimony.
Big Score
Footballguy
I was fairly certain that the actual handlers / organizers of fighting dogs would tape the fights, in order to prove their dogs "Gameness" as you say. My point was to the handlers / organizers not allowing spectators to bring camcoders.However, you do bring up a very interesting point here.As you say, many handlers of fighting dogs indeed tape their dogs for "Bragging" rights & I'd say more importantly for large breeding operations, to prove "Gameness" (to assist in the sale of said fighting dogs & for stud purposes).However when the authorities raided Vick's "dog fighting farm", no such tapes were found.Tillmanisahero said:
Big Score
Footballguy
Are you asking about the tapes that Kathy Strouse isn't even sure exist?
sho nuff
Footballguy
Yes...the tapes that we are hearing are out there...but are now not even sure that they exist.Odd that now they might not exist (given that the cops erased the video of Vick giving up his water bottle at the airport)
massraider
Footballguy
I don't understand the point you are making.
Big Score
Footballguy
Since Yahoo Sports first broke their interview with Kathy Strouse on May 15th, there have always been the question of whether these tapes even existed.
sports.yahoo.com Since then other sources have picked up that story & say the same thing.
msn.foxsports.com
Big Score
Footballguy
Look at what I quoted.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Depends on how much Blank or Vick will pay to have them destroyed.
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Big Score
Footballguy
More importantly, it depends on if they even exist.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Obviously my point was assuming they do (at this point).Because the tape of the water bottle thing did exist...then was erased.More importantly, it depends on if they even exist.
Flyin Pigs
Footballguy
pure speculation on my part, but this informant that was mentioned earlier (or some other witness) may have mentioned to her that they've seen recordings made. So she thinks there should still be recordings somewhere, that they do exist, she just doesn't have clue one where they might be...at least that's how I'm reading it. The question isn't of existence, its of locating them. $0.02More importantly, it depends on if they even exist.
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Big Score
Footballguy
Gotcha ya sho nuff.Obviously my point was assuming they do (at this point).Because the tape of the water bottle thing did exist...then was erased.More importantly, it depends on if they even exist.
As for me, I'm not assuming they exist, simply because the very person who is bringing up them up, is directly quoted as saying that even she isn't sure if they exist or not.I'm also hesitant to draw any conclusions about how things will be handled by VA authorities, based on what Miami authorities did in a different incident.
Big Score
Footballguy
You're definitely right on the locating part, but the certainty of their existence, just doesn't jibe at all with what she's saying here.pure speculation on my part, but this informant that was mentioned earlier (or some other witness) may have mentioned to her that they've seen recordings made. So she thinks there should still be recordings somewhere, that they do exist, she just doesn't have clue one where they might be...at least that's how I'm reading it. The question isn't of existence, its of locating them. $0.02More importantly, it depends on if they even exist.
I mean, if she's certain of their existence, why would she say she's not certain of their existence?
Flyin Pigs
Footballguy
true, true...guess she could be wondering if they still exist, but I'm parsing words and reading way too far into this.You're definitely right on the locating part, but the certainty of their existence, just doesn't jibe at all with what she's saying here.pure speculation on my part, but this informant that was mentioned earlier (or some other witness) may have mentioned to her that they've seen recordings made. So she thinks there should still be recordings somewhere, that they do exist, she just doesn't have clue one where they might be...at least that's how I'm reading it. The question isn't of existence, its of locating them. $0.02More importantly, it depends on if they even exist.I mean, if she's certain of their existence, why would she say she's not certain of their existence?
Pygmy Marmoset
Footballguy
Your defense of Vick continues to be great shtick.
Big Score
Footballguy
Yeah, it always helps to ad a word in here or there. If we do that, it definitely lends more support to our lines of speculation.true, true...guess she could be wondering if they still exist, but I'm parsing words and reading way too far into this.You're definitely right on the locating part, but the certainty of their existence, just doesn't jibe at all with what she's saying here.pure speculation on my part, but this informant that was mentioned earlier (or some other witness) may have mentioned to her that they've seen recordings made. So she thinks there should still be recordings somewhere, that they do exist, she just doesn't have clue one where they might be...at least that's how I'm reading it. The question isn't of existence, its of locating them. $0.02More importantly, it depends on if they even exist.
I mean, if she's certain of their existence, why would she say she's not certain of their existence?
Big Score
Footballguy
No defense of Vick, Pygmy. If you read the full unedited post #232 & not just the snippet of it that massraider quoted, you'll see it was simply pointing out that Kathy Strouse's story changes from interview to interview.
Regardless of conviction, I think Goodell gives him a vacation this year & the only question in my mind, is how long that vacation will be. I figure anywhere from 4 to 8 games.
Now if the authorities can find the evidence needed to convict Vick, he's going to the pokey anywhere up to 5 years.
Really? I'm not sure why you'd get that.What I see there is someone trying to be accurate about not knowing for sure the tapes exist. Sounds like she has been told they exist but she does not know that for a fact.Yeah, it always helps to ad a word in here or there. If we do that, it definitely lends more support to our lines of speculation.true, true...guess she could be wondering if they still exist, but I'm parsing words and reading way too far into this.You're definitely right on the locating part, but the certainty of their existence, just doesn't jibe at all with what she's saying here.pure speculation on my part, but this informant that was mentioned earlier (or some other witness) may have mentioned to her that they've seen recordings made. So she thinks there should still be recordings somewhere, that they do exist, she just doesn't have clue one where they might be...at least that's how I'm reading it. The question isn't of existence, its of locating them. $0.02More importantly, it depends on if they even exist.I mean, if she's certain of their existence, why would she say she's not certain of their existence?
So she's being careful to qualify what she's saying so if it turns out they don't exist, she doesn't look stupid.
Are you saying she knows good and well there are no tapes and is just making the tapes up to lend support to speculation?
J
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