Kindergarten Redshirting / good? / bad? / fair to younger kids? (1 Viewer)

[renesauz]

It has to be case by case. I was one of the youngest in my class, turning five a few days after the first day of kindergarten, and I was smallish until I was a sophomore in HS. It might have been a small social hinderance in grade school, but wasn't an issue academically or in sports. (I wasn't THAT much smaller).

My son was born a couple weeks AFTER the cutoff date, and they made me wait a year for kindergarten. The next year, he was so far ahead of all the other kids academically that they promoted him within 2 months to the first grade. Like me, he's on the smallish side for his grade (now 7th) but is doing very well academically. Socially he's holding his own, but is certainly not "popular" (I think I'm kind of glad of that).

 

[renesauz]

According to the National Center for Education Statistics, some 6% of kindergartners are redshirted nationally. But the numbers can vary by neighborhood. Data from Connecticut's department of education show the incidence of redshirting ranging from 2% in poorer school districts to 27% in wealthier ones. Redshirting is easier for families that can afford an extra year of child care or preschool tuition—and the practice can be controversial because of the perceived advantage that it gives to such children.

From WSJ

25% of ALL kids? or 25% of those who are within 4-6 weeks of the suggested cut-off date (IE: 25% of the borderline kids).

I don't buy the ALL kids.

 

[bigbottom]

According to the National Center for Education Statistics, some 6% of kindergartners are redshirted nationally. But the numbers can vary by neighborhood. Data from Connecticut's department of education show the incidence of redshirting ranging from 2% in poorer school districts to 27% in wealthier ones. Redshirting is easier for families that can afford an extra year of child care or preschool tuitionand the practice can be controversial because of the perceived advantage that it gives to such children.

From WSJ

25% of ALL kids? or 25% of those who are within 4-6 weeks of the suggested cut-off date (IE: 25% of the borderline kids).I don't buy the ALL kids.

The next paragraph in the story seems to indicate that they are not limiting the discussion to those within a few weeks of the cutoff.

When Jamie Bakal, an educational consultant with L.A. School Mates in Los Angeles, started her business eight years ago, she saw that children who turned 5 over the summer were often held back for schools with Sept. 1 cutoff dates. She says it then expanded to include children with birthdays in April and May. Today, she says, schools are accepting children who have turned 5 as early as the previous February and Marchpotentially allowing for a 19-month age spread between classmates.

A seven-year-old kindergartener will be a nineteen-year-old senior. Better not take a freshman or sophomore to prom.

 

[Sinn Fein]

According to the National Center for Education Statistics, some 6% of kindergartners are redshirted nationally. But the numbers can vary by neighborhood. Data from Connecticut's department of education show the incidence of redshirting ranging from 2% in poorer school districts to 27% in wealthier ones. Redshirting is easier for families that can afford an extra year of child care or preschool tuition—and the practice can be controversial because of the perceived advantage that it gives to such children.

From WSJ

25% of ALL kids? or 25% of those who are within 4-6 weeks of the suggested cut-off date (IE: 25% of the borderline kids).

I don't buy the ALL kids.

I think the story is ~25% of kids in kindergarten, in those districts, have been red-shirted. So, in a typical class size of 24 - 6 will be red-shirts.

 

[NCCommish]

According to the National Center for Education Statistics, some 6% of kindergartners are redshirted nationally. But the numbers can vary by neighborhood. Data from Connecticut's department of education show the incidence of redshirting ranging from 2% in poorer school districts to 27% in wealthier ones. Redshirting is easier for families that can afford an extra year of child care or preschool tuitionand the practice can be controversial because of the perceived advantage that it gives to such children.

From WSJ

25% of ALL kids? or 25% of those who are within 4-6 weeks of the suggested cut-off date (IE: 25% of the borderline kids).I don't buy the ALL kids.

The next paragraph in the story seems to indicate that they are not limiting the discussion to those within a few weeks of the cutoff.

When Jamie Bakal, an educational consultant with L.A. School Mates in Los Angeles, started her business eight years ago, she saw that children who turned 5 over the summer were often held back for schools with Sept. 1 cutoff dates. She says it then expanded to include children with birthdays in April and May. Today, she says, schools are accepting children who have turned 5 as early as the previous February and Marchpotentially allowing for a 19-month age spread between classmates.

A seven-year-old kindergartener will be a nineteen-year-old senior. Better not take a freshman or sophomore to prom.

I find the very idea of a 7 year old kindergartner ridiculous and I can't believe there is any real added value in being that kid.

 

[cstu]

I find the very idea of a 7 year old kindergartner ridiculous and I can't believe there is any real added value in being that kid.

If a kid turns 7 at the end of kinder that's the end of the world?

 

[General Tso]

20 years in public education here...but take this as anecdotal:

Every kid is different but if i had to generalize I would say it was better to wait. Especially for boys.

Agree. Wish I did it with my son. Not only is he the youngest in his class, but he is also on the small side and a later bloomer to boot. It has been a huge issue since about 3rd grade. On the plus side, it forced him to be tough as nails. He became a black belt in Kung Fu in record time and was a three time National Champion in his age group. But overall, I wish I had waited and would advise others to do the same, especially with boys.

 

[bigbottom]

I find the very idea of a 7 year old kindergartner ridiculous and I can't believe there is any real added value in being that kid.

If a kid turns 7 at the end of kinder that's the end of the world?

The quoted part of the article references kindergartners turning 7 in February and March. Not the end of the world, but pretty ridiculous unless the kid is mentally or emotionally slow in terms of their development.

 

[cstu]

I find the very idea of a 7 year old kindergartner ridiculous and I can't believe there is any real added value in being that kid.

If a kid turns 7 at the end of kinder that's the end of the world?

The quoted part of the article references kindergartners turning 7 in February and March. Not the end of the world, but pretty ridiculous unless the kid is mentally or emotionally slow in terms of their development.

I doubt that kids being held back that long are ahead in their development. Not saying it doesn't happen but most parents aren't going to go to that extreme with a typical child. I was born in September and forced to wait a year (turned 6 at the beginning of K) and was far enough ahead that I was bored in school most of the time. Unless there's a developmental reason then kids should be in kinder if they turn 6 during the school year.

 

[cstu]

It has to be case by case. I was one of the youngest in my class, turning five a few days after the first day of kindergarten, and I was smallish until I was a sophomore in HS. It might have been a small social hinderance in grade school, but wasn't an issue academically or in sports. (I wasn't THAT much smaller).

My son was born a couple weeks AFTER the cutoff date, and they made me wait a year for kindergarten. The next year, he was so far ahead of all the other kids academically that they promoted him within 2 months to the first grade. Like me, he's on the smallish side for his grade (now 7th) but is doing very well academically. Socially he's holding his own, but is certainly not "popular" (I think I'm kind of glad of that).

My nephew is like your son (one of the youngest in his class) and it's the social aspect that is most difficult. It's something you need to be aware of and work on.

 

[NCCommish]

It has to be case by case. I was one of the youngest in my class, turning five a few days after the first day of kindergarten, and I was smallish until I was a sophomore in HS. It might have been a small social hinderance in grade school, but wasn't an issue academically or in sports. (I wasn't THAT much smaller).

My son was born a couple weeks AFTER the cutoff date, and they made me wait a year for kindergarten. The next year, he was so far ahead of all the other kids academically that they promoted him within 2 months to the first grade. Like me, he's on the smallish side for his grade (now 7th) but is doing very well academically. Socially he's holding his own, but is certainly not "popular" (I think I'm kind of glad of that).

My nephew is like your son (one of the youngest in his class) and it's the social aspect that is most difficult. It's something you need to be aware of and work on.

I never had any problems with the social stuff and I am naturally an introvert to start with. Now I wasn't prom king but I had plenty of friends and girlfriends. So I guess it also depends on how you measure social success.

 

[NCCommish]

Interestingly enough I just saw a report on a ten year study following kids from 13 - 22. They found that the children who were popular middle school/early high school tended to become less popular as time went on. Those who were less popular entering high school tended to see that improve by the time they left and continue to do so into their early 20s.

Hard to do links on the phone. The study was in Business Insider.

 

[RedmondLonghorn]

Interestingly enough I just saw a report on a ten year study following kids from 13 - 22. They found that the children who were popular middle school/early high school tended to become less popular as time went on. Those who were less popular entering high school tended to see that improve by the time they left and continue to do so into their early 20s.

Hard to do links on the phone. The study was in Business Insider.

I wouldn't be the least surprised. At least 75% of the "cool kids" in high school peaked in high school and are now losers, relatively speaking anyway, in my experience. I have talked to numerous people who have had the same experience.

 

[Righetti]

I would say if your son is 4 when K starts, hold back

That's a pretty good cutoff. I'd even go as far as say if the kid isn't 5 before June.

My daughter turned 5 in September and she did fine in Kindergarten. I think it is up to the kid

 

[Mr. Pickles]

I can't even fathom keeping my son back a year. He'll be five in August 2016. He's been in a Montessori school this past year and will probably find kindergarten a giant bore as it is. My god, another year? No thanks.

 

[RedmondLonghorn]

I can't even fathom keeping my son back a year. He'll be five in August 2016. He's been in a Montessori school this past year and will probably find kindergarten a giant bore as it is. My god, another year? No thanks.

Your son is probably already smarter and more erudite than half the posters in the FFA (and 85% of them in the Shark Pool).

 

[Mr. Pickles]

I can't even fathom keeping my son back a year. He'll be five in August 2016. He's been in a Montessori school this past year and will probably find kindergarten a giant bore as it is. My god, another year? No thanks.

Your son is probably already smarter and more erudite than half the posters in the FFA (and 85% of them in the Shark Pool).

He consistently calls Play-Doh "compound." Of course, he also uses the word "poop" 20 times an hour.

 

[NCCommish]

Interestingly enough I just saw a report on a ten year study following kids from 13 - 22. They found that the children who were popular middle school/early high school tended to become less popular as time went on. Those who were less popular entering high school tended to see that improve by the time they left and continue to do so into their early 20s.

Hard to do links on the phone. The study was in Business Insider.

I wouldn't be the least surprised. At least 75% of the "cool kids" in high school peaked in high school and are now losers, relatively speaking anyway, in my experience. I have talked to numerous people who have had the same experience.

Also being popular in those years seemed to include a lot of risky behavior. Maybe leaa popular is OK.

 

[RedmondLonghorn]

Interestingly enough I just saw a report on a ten year study following kids from 13 - 22. They found that the children who were popular middle school/early high school tended to become less popular as time went on. Those who were less popular entering high school tended to see that improve by the time they left and continue to do so into their early 20s.

Hard to do links on the phone. The study was in Business Insider.

I wouldn't be the least surprised. At least 75% of the "cool kids" in high school peaked in high school and are now losers, relatively speaking anyway, in my experience. I have talked to numerous people who have had the same experience.

Also being popular in those years seemed to include a lot of risky behavior. Maybe leaa popular is OK.

For sure.

Just to be clear, I am not an advocate for holding back kids for silly reasons. But I am also against taking all discretion out of the hands of parents and having a truly inflexible policy.

 

[El Floppo]

I agree, Red.

That said, the level to which NYC parents can be absolute self-serving, idiotic scumbags is shocking. Some clearly laid out groundwork within the DOB for flexibility would be nice... at least here in NYC.

But again- IME, I'm not seeing kids being put at a disadvantage for more than a few months here... and in K. Not like their future is being decided in those first few months when they're still basically walking, talking babies.

getting back to FC- what's the fear here? that JR is going to... what?

 

[adonis]

Considering this option for kids - late August birthday and summer birthday for girl and boy with Sept 30th cutoff.

My thing is that the cutoff for school is arbitrary...it could've been May 30th and our kids would've been among the older in the class...without having to swim upstream against the norms.  

But due to the arbitrary nature of the school year, and their birthdates, they will be among the youngest and that comes with some reasonably well documented disadvantages.  

For us, it has nothing to do with college, nothing to do with sports, it's all about giving them the best opportunity to be prepared for a lifetime of schooling from the start.  For both of them, I think that an extra year of maturation (emotionally primarily) will benefit them in the classroom, being able to sit still, focus, grasp more complex things, and build a more solid foundation for later in life.

 

[BassNBrew]

My son is gonna be going into Kindergarten in a couple years. I'll do whatever the consensus is here.

I don't know what the consensus will be but I'm never wrong and say hold him back.

:cstu:

 

[BassNBrew]

Considering this option for kids - late August birthday and summer birthday for girl and boy with Sept 30th cutoff.

My thing is that the cutoff for school is arbitrary...it could've been May 30th and our kids would've been among the older in the class...without having to swim upstream against the norms.  

But due to the arbitrary nature of the school year, and their birthdates, they will be among the youngest and that comes with some reasonably well documented disadvantages.  

For us, it has nothing to do with college, nothing to do with sports, it's all about giving them the best opportunity to be prepared for a lifetime of schooling from the start.  For both of them, I think that an extra year of maturation (emotionally primarily) will benefit them in the classroom, being able to sit still, focus, grasp more complex things, and build a more solid foundation for later in life.

As long as you aren't going to home school them they will be fine.  

 

[adonis]

As long as you aren't going to home school them they will be fine.  

I make sure to make the most of the time they're home after school and give them snippets of wisdom:

"The grass ain't always greener on the other side"

"Money doesn't grow on trees, ya know?"

"When I was your age, we didn't even have iPads!"

I regularly make corny dad jokes, I try to instill in them an appreciation of Seinfeld humor.

All in all, I think I'm hitting all the marks for what a dad should do.  

 

[Bull Dozier]

I make sure to make the most of the time they're home after school and give them snippets of wisdom:

"The grass ain't always greener on the other side"

"Money doesn't grow on trees, ya know?"

"When I was your age, we didn't even have iPads!"

I regularly make corny dad jokes, I try to instill in them an appreciation of Seinfeld humor.

All in all, I think I'm hitting all the marks for what a dad should do.  

Throw in some Bob Books, playing catch, and cooking Mac n Cheese and this is my fatherhood for their first several years.

 

[Binky The Doormat]

Clearly creates the likelihood of an unfair advantage.  I wish I would have done it for my kid.  

 

[Cold Dead Hands]

Opposite here. We had the chance to test my middle kid in early. Chose not to. He is bored senseless.

He will be going into 3rd grade and we are trying to get him skipped to 4th but it is hard to get through the red tape.

 

[Bull Dozier]

Opposite here. We had the chance to test my middle kid in early. Chose not to. He is bored senseless.

He will be going into 3rd grade and we are trying to get him skipped to 4th but it is hard to get through the red tape.

My youngest is a late July birthday.  A lot of kids in our area in that range hold their kids back.  I'm glad we didn't as he's a straight A student in the 8th grade.  I would think he could be one of those kids who would fall into troublemaker status if he was that bored in school.

 

[sbonomo]

Considering this option for kids - late August birthday and summer birthday for girl and boy with Sept 30th cutoff.

My thing is that the cutoff for school is arbitrary...it could've been May 30th and our kids would've been among the older in the class...without having to swim upstream against the norms.  

But due to the arbitrary nature of the school year, and their birthdates, they will be among the youngest and that comes with some reasonably well documented disadvantages.  

For us, it has nothing to do with college, nothing to do with sports, it's all about giving them the best opportunity to be prepared for a lifetime of schooling from the start.  For both of them, I think that an extra year of maturation (emotionally primarily) will benefit them in the classroom, being able to sit still, focus, grasp more complex things, and build a more solid foundation for later in life.

Why not list the summer bday?  What do you do with them in the down year scholastically (I don't have kids so no idea what age they do preschool etc.)?  I had a niece that started school early because she was already second grade level school work at age 4.  Not sure how the maturation works but, starting her in kindergarten at age 5, doing third grade level work, IMO would have been a huge mistake.  Just curious, not meaning to offend.  

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

Maybe every kid is different but my youngest who went "early", is far more concerned with school than her older sister who went "late". 

I place blame solely on their mother. 

 

[MattFancy]

Opposite here. We had the chance to test my middle kid in early. Chose not to. He is bored senseless.

He will be going into 3rd grade and we are trying to get him skipped to 4th but it is hard to get through the red tape.

Our 4y/o daughter is in Pre-K now. Her Pre-K teachers think she should skip Kindergarten. We're torn on it. Yes, she is already reading and writing pretty well right now, but I think putting her ahead could be a disadvantage to her. For one, she'll already be the youngest kid in her Kindergarten class since she has a July birthday. Also, she's relatively small to begin with, she'll be by far the smallest if we put her ahead a grade. Her teacher says she is reading on a 3rd grade level (I'm not so sure about all that, but she is definitely above average in reading). I don't want her to be bored in Kindergarten, but I don't want to put her ahead and be at a disadvantage physically.

 

[adonis]

Why not list the summer bday?  What do you do with them in the down year scholastically (I don't have kids so no idea what age they do preschool etc.)?  I had a niece that started school early because she was already second grade level school work at age 4.  Not sure how the maturation works but, starting her in kindergarten at age 5, doing third grade level work, IMO would have been a huge mistake.  Just curious, not meaning to offend.  

She's been in a day school/pre-school setting for a few years now, but still lacks some maturity.  The summer bday is mid-June, and he's still too young to know for sure but it's likely we'd do the same for him that we did for his sister.

She's been doing things all along, but we tried to get her to take some tests to go for a magnet school and leading up to it, some tutoring as well.  The tutors were staff at the magnet who tutored on the side and they commented on her immaturity, as it was hard to keep her on task, but commented that she was doing pretty well on the content, just not there on the maturity side.  She took the test and didn't answer half of it (despite knowing the information) so didn't get in.  It's that main concern, a lack of maturity to sit and engage while in school, that has me concerned about her starting off in kindergarten well.  Could be, in 5 months or so, she'll be just fine...but it's a gamble, and one we don't have to make based on arbitrary school start dates.

From all the research I've seen, there are benefits to delaying, and to starting on time...but nothing clear in either way, aside from that for a few years, delaying entry pays academic dividends that seem to decline by the end of elementary school.  I think the upside outweighs the potential downsides, so it seems reasonable to try for it and put her in something like a kindergarden class/pre-k mix for the next year to prepare her.  We'll try the magnet again next year, and if no luck, she'll go to the area public school and we'll feel like we did all we could to put her in the best position to succeed (on her own merits, not comparatively) in school.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

Our 4y/o daughter is in Pre-K now. Her Pre-K teachers think she should skip Kindergarten. We're torn on it. Yes, she is already reading and writing pretty well right now, but I think putting her ahead could be a disadvantage to her. For one, she'll already be the youngest kid in her Kindergarten class since she has a July birthday. Also, she's relatively small to begin with, she'll be by far the smallest if we put her ahead a grade. Her teacher says she is reading on a 3rd grade level (I'm not so sure about all that, but she is definitely above average in reading). I don't want her to be bored in Kindergarten, but I don't want to put her ahead and be at a disadvantage physically.

Yeah this is pretty much the exact situation we faced-- I linked to my thread on page one of this thread.  My kid skipped kindergarten, there were a few challenges but overall it seems to have been the right move I think.  She's starting high school next year.  Can't guarantee your kid is the same but feel free to ask me any questions if you have them.

 

[adonis]

Still reading a bunch of articles on this and it doesn't seem that many folks...maybe 1/20 or so, regret holding their kid back, while a larger % regretted putting their young child in K when they had questions about doing so.