Kobe Bryant dead in helicopter crash - TMZ (1 Viewer)

[Leroy Hoard]

Wearing that ring around is basically a billboard for the time your husband cheated. It’s weird.

Maybe it was more a reminder for him to see. As far as we know, it worked.

 

[-fish-]

To be clear, I'm not saying it should have by any means.  I was just responding to the thread where someone said the coverage has pretty much not touched on it at all, then the reply came back saying that wasn't true.  I was just asking where that was happening because I haven't seen much, if any.  

Although the stories focus on basketball and his family, nearly all that I've seen mention discuss this incident and his turnaround from it.   Even the most glowing commentary from ESPN that was posted earlier on this page mentions it.   To claim it is being ignored or swept under the rug is simply false.  

 

[fissure man]

No, you guys are right this is so much better than what we were talking about. 

 

[Zegras11]

Although the stories focus on basketball and his family, nearly all that I've seen mention discuss this incident and his turnaround from it.   Even the most glowing commentary from ESPN that was posted earlier on this page mentions it.   To claim it is being ignored or swept under the rug is simply false.  

I saw it many times briefly mentioned from the start.  It doesn't need to be the focus because it's been dealt with and appears to have been resolved in very positive ways for all involved.

After it was announced that his daughter was confirmed in the accident (that took several hours), most of the focus has been on their relationship, interviews with people that knew him, and how the NBA teams reacted on the court. 

 

[CurlyNight]

Grieving i understand. Kobe Bryant was a singular talent and a touchstone of a certain generational aspiration. But a poor choice for the present & ongoing media canonization - not only for the Colorado incident but for being the NBA's first 40%er and countless other acts of basketball selfishness in the closing years of his career. I can only conclude that, just like everything else the media does these days, that the root lies in the OJ phenomenon - more people will be watching if you have Kobe stuff on right now. That's not coverage, it's hype.

I remember the co case. No one really knows what really happened except those two. I say this even as a victim of rape myself by my uncle and countless molestations as a kid. I forgave him after a long while and moved on. Hopefully so did this lady. The plusses of what he did after this outweighs any minuses. I feel bad for his family. Thank God none of them are on social media to read the retrial  of him online by people not really in the know. I didn't like him for what seems to have happened in co nor was a fan of him in the nba. But he turned his life around and gave so much back. His family and wife loved him and are crushed. That should say enough. Millions are crushed for their own reasons. My cousin learned from him how to succeed. So what do you want the media to show? The man and his 13 yo daughter and 7 others are dead. You don't think maybe a family member may be watching? I'm glad there's a short mention of the co thing as it's the right thing to do. Whatever you may think of him, he did a lot of good. And when someone dies, you don't do a eulogy on the bad. You remember them turning their lives around, doing good things. We all can agree on what a fantastic father he was. What an example to all fathers out there. I don't look at nba stats. Whatever. What has he or anyone done in their lives that benefits someone. That's what should be displayed more than the bad. Being what he's done to help from kids to adults since his retirement, I think this is appropriate from the media.

 

[TheIronSheik]

Although the stories focus on basketball and his family, nearly all that I've seen mention discuss this incident and his turnaround from it.   Even the most glowing commentary from ESPN that was posted earlier on this page mentions it.   To claim it is being ignored or swept under the rug is simply false.  

Fair enough.  Again, I don't watch much news.  So I was more asking than saying it wasn't happening. 

 

[TheIronSheik]

I remember the co case. No one really knows what really happened except those two. I say this even as a victim of rape myself by my uncle and countless molestations as a kid. I forgave him after a long while and moved on. Hopefully so did this lady. The plusses of what he did after this outweighs any minuses. I feel bad for his family. Thank God none of them are on social media to read the retrial  of him online by people not really in the know. I didn't like him for what seems to have happened in co nor was a fan of him in the nba. But he turned his life around and gave so much back. His family and wife loved him and are crushed. That should say enough. Millions are crushed for their own reasons. My cousin learned from him how to succeed. So what do you want the media to show? The man and his 13 yo daughter and 7 others are dead. You don't think maybe a family member may be watching? I'm glad there's a short mention of the co thing as it's the right thing to do. Whatever you may think of him, he did a lot of good. And when someone dies, you don't do a eulogy on the bad. You remember them turning their lives around, doing good things. We all can agree on what a fantastic father he was. What an example to all fathers out there. I don't look at nba stats. Whatever. What has he or anyone done in their lives that benefits someone. That's what should be displayed more than the bad. Being what he's done to help from kids to adults since his retirement, I think this is appropriate from the media.

This is your opinion and you are certainly entitled to that.  And in most cases, I think saying that his good outweighed his bad makes sense.  But there are certain crimes where I don't think that applies.  Murder and rape are two crimes that come to mind instantly.  Not saying he wasn't a good person the rest of his life.  Or that he didn't touch a lot of people's live's in a positive way.  But, for me, no amount of good will make me overlook a rapist or murderer.  Just my opinion.  

 

[CurlyNight]

This is your opinion and you are certainly entitled to that.  And in most cases, I think saying that his good outweighed his bad makes sense.  But there are certain crimes where I don't think that applies.  Murder and rape are two crimes that come to mind instantly.  Not saying he wasn't a good person the rest of his life.  Or that he didn't touch a lot of people's live's in a positive way.  But, for me, no amount of good will make me overlook a rapist or murderer.  Just my opinion.  

Fair enough. That's why I never told my dad. He would literally have killed him if not having a heart attack first.

 

[scoobus]

If anyone cares, the ridiculous tweet (and presumably video) by Ari Shaffir is real, he wasn't "hacked." 

Loser.

 

[fissure man]

Right.  It's like when Hitler died and all everyone wanted to talk about was how much he hated the Jews.

Exactly the same. 

 

[fissure man]

This is your opinion and you are certainly entitled to that.  And in most cases, I think saying that his good outweighed his bad makes sense.  But there are certain crimes where I don't think that applies.  Murder and rape are two crimes that come to mind instantly.  Not saying he wasn't a good person the rest of his life.  Or that he didn't touch a lot of people's live's in a positive way.  But, for me, no amount of good will make me overlook a rapist or murderer.  Just my opinion.  

So you’re basically the embodiment of cancel culture. Nice. 
 

You don’t even know what happened in that room. How can you be sure?

 

[jonessed]

Fair enough.  Again, I don't watch much news.  So I was more asking than saying it wasn't happening. 

It’s most certainly being swept under the rug.  Not entirely, but very few are going to take on the wall of hysteria right now. It’s pretty buried.

He was a sports star, not Nelson Mandela.

 

[General Malaise]

No, you guys are right this is so much better than what we were talking about. 

I thought you were going to take a break from this thread.  That might be a good thing for you.  This is hitting you pretty hard and I'm sorry.  But chiming in every so often to voice your displeasure over the posts in here isn't very constructive.

 

[TheIronSheik]

Exactly the same. 

Right?  I was obviously doing a 1 to 1 comparison and not going for a wildly crazy joke.  No sir.  I, in fact, believe that Hitler and Kobe are equals.  Thank you for agreeing.

 

[General Malaise]

If anyone cares, the ridiculous tweet (and presumably video) by Ari Shaffir is real, he wasn't "hacked." 

Loser.

Never heard of that guy prior to this, so he's getting his 15 minutes, albeit in a tasteless and curious way.  Dude drugged his own friend in front of his family.  We probably shouldn't be surprised by any of his atrocious behaviors.

 

[TheIronSheik]

So you’re basically the embodiment of cancel culture. Nice. 
 

You don’t even know what happened in that room. How can you be sure?

Yes.  Cancel Culture because I don't think we should forget that a rapist actually raped someone.  You got me. 

 

[General Malaise]

Right?  I was obviously doing a 1 to 1 comparison and not going for a wildly crazy joke.  No sir.  I, in fact, believe that Hitler and Kobe are equals.  Thank you for agreeing.

LeBron is better than Hitler and Hitler will NEVER catch him.  

#callback

 

[Tom Servo]

Well said, Tom. You're a bigger man than I. Grief comes in all forms and manifests itself in highly individualized ways; to respect that is to remember or own loss.

RIP to those involved. 

I'm not a bigger man, GB; I'm just a man.  Anyone who wants to can step up and be something more.

 

[rockaction]

I'm not a bigger man, GB; I'm just a man.  Anyone who wants to can step up and be something more.

Noted, and I say that without terseness. Just...noted. Thought about it and I think my contribution to the thread or sentiment won't be all that helpful so I'll stick with that which I believe should be proper -- a Victorian sentiment (an ethos I subscribe to in part) in public about the man, which is an RIP and Godspeed.  

In private, that's where we allow ourselves our personal missives at life, God, and the frailties of man. 

 

[fissure man]

Right?  I was obviously doing a 1 to 1 comparison and not going for a wildly crazy joke.  No sir.  I, in fact, believe that Hitler and Kobe are equals.  Thank you for agreeing.

Good. So you got my obvious sarcasm too. Glad were on the same page!

Cmon bromanski, I think you're hilarious. (No sarcasm that time)

 

[fissure man]

Yes.  Cancel Culture because I don't think we should forget that a rapist actually raped someone.  You got me. 

Nobody said forget, you said "But, for me, no amount of good will make me overlook a rapist or murderer.  Just my opinion. "

 

 

[fissure man]

I thought you were going to take a break from this thread.  That might be a good thing for you.  This is hitting you pretty hard and I'm sorry.  But chiming in every so often to voice your displeasure over the posts in here isn't very constructive.

I did. 

I'm not remotely outraged by any of these posts. I just see where the thread is going at and would rather steer it a more positive direction. Thats all. 

 

[TheIronSheik]

Nobody said forget, you said "But, for me, no amount of good will make me overlook a rapist or murderer.  Just my opinion. "

 

Again, you're entitled to your opinion.  But I'm not going to overlook a rape just because he also did some good things, too.

That would be the furthest thing from "Cancel Culture" that could ever be given as an example.

 

[belljr]

You guys might want to read up on that case and then form an opinion. It not black and white.   Starting with allegedly some other guys dna.. 

I'm not saying Kobe is innocent, something definitely happened imo.  Just not sure exactly what

 

[fissure man]

Again, you're entitled to your opinion.  But I'm not going to overlook a rape just because he also did some good things, too.

That would be the furthest thing from "Cancel Culture" that could ever be given as an example.

I was being slightly hyperbolic. So you can be sarcastic and bring up Hitler, but when I like you wasn't going for a 1 v 1 comparison you totally miss it? I think were having a slight communication problem. It's probably my fault. I can admit that. 

To be fair, I agree that I'm not sure I could ever forgive a rapist or pedophile but I'm not convinced Kobe raped that woman. 

 

[TheIronSheik]

I was being slightly hyperbolic. So you can be sarcastic and bring up Hitler, but when I like you wasn't going for a 1 v 1 comparison you totally miss it? I think were having a slight communication problem. It's probably my fault. I can admit that. 

To be fair, I agree that I'm not sure I could ever forgive a rapist or pedophile but I'm not convinced Kobe raped that woman. 

Fair enough on the top part.  I'm not mad or anything, GB.  

The key thing on the Kobe issue is he admitted that even though he didn't realize it wasn't consensual, he realizes she might not have thought it was.  His words.  And that's rape.  His words.

 

[eoMMan]

This isn't even close to true.   

Not sure what you're watching but NBC today show, CBS morning show, etc.....no mention of it. Just crying fans everywhere, pics of billboards, pics of memes with him and his daughter as angels. I'm not ####ting on the guy (I actually commend him for what he's done since the event) but let's ease up a little on him being the best role model every for kids around the world.

 

[-fish-]

You guys might want to read up on that case and then form an option. It not black and white.   Starting with allegedly some other guys dna.. 

I'm not saying Kobe is innocent, something definitely happened imo.  Just not sure exactly what

Pretty sure if it had gone to trial there would not have been a conviction.   There was a significant amount of grandstanding by the DA in the face of some pretty sketchy evidence.   If it wasn't someone famous, I doubt there would have been any charges to begin with.

 

[-fish-]

Not sure what you're watching but NBC today show, CBS morning show, etc.....no mention of it. Just crying fans everywhere, pics of billboards, pics of memes with him and his daughter as angels. I'm not ####ting on the guy (I actually commend him for what he's done since the event) but let's ease up a little on him being the best role model every for kids around the world.

I suppose it depends on the filter through which you're watching.   Like I said, even the link above from the ESPN commentator who has one of the most glowing tributes out there mentions it.  I haven't seen anyone sweeping it under the rug.   

 

[fissure man]

Not sure what you're watching but NBC today show, CBS morning show, etc.....no mention of it. Just crying fans everywhere, pics of billboards, pics of memes with him and his daughter as angels. I'm not ####ting on the guy (I actually commend him for what he's done since the event) but let's ease up a little on him being the best role model every for kids around the world.

Even I of all people agree with this. If I take a step back its probably fair of you guys to be talking about this given that as you said, people are projecting him to be the best role model that ever walked the earth. 

I must admit that I sorta thought to myself, "eh...maybe slow down on the perfect guy talk folks, people will remember the rape allegation". 

 

[NREC34]

I thought it was cool of the Utah guy who stepped in the lane early on purpose so he could get another chance for 60 in his final game in case he missed. 

 

[TheIronSheik]

Even I of all people agree with this. If I take a step back its probably fair of you guys to be talking about this given that as you said, people are projecting him to be the best role model that ever walked the earth. 

I must admit that I sorta thought to myself, "eh...maybe slow down on the perfect guy talk folks, people will remember the rape allegation". 

And that's the big thing.  I definitely acknowledge that he was a good guy for most of his life, it seems.  And that he influenced a lot of young kids in a positive way.

But let's also remember the incident in Colorado.  

Michael Vick has done some great things in his life, too.  But he also tortured and murdered dogs.  

 

[Bull Dozier]

You guys might want to read up on that case and then form an opinion. It not black and white.   Starting with allegedly some other guys dna.. 

I'm not saying Kobe is innocent, something definitely happened imo.  Just not sure exactly what

Did you read the article the suspended reporter posted to her Twitter account?  It has a pretty good summation of not only the facts of the case (both parties accounts, including portions of the transcripts of Kobe's police interview), but also the victim blaming she had to endure.

Agree that none of us were in the room, but Kobe's own words are damning to me (not that he admitted to it, but the way he answered questions and what he admitted to).

 

[fissure man]

Fair enough on the top part.  I'm not mad or anything, GB.  

The key thing on the Kobe issue is he admitted that even though he didn't realize it wasn't consensual, he realizes she might not have thought it was.  His words.  And that's rape.  His words.

Im not mad either GB  

I don't recall those being his exact words. I'd have to dig up his actual apology, but i know it isn't the way you worded it. I won't agree that it was rape and unless you were there Im not sure how any unbiased person can say that he raped her without a doubt. Are you familiar with the case? Are you aware she voluntarily performed oral on him? That she showed up to the medical exam with underwear that contained another man's semen and pubic hair? That she changed her story about why she was late for work? that she was taking medication to treat schizophrenia? 

I'm saying I don't know what happened but that I have my doubts. Im not sure how you can say that he 100% without a doubt raped that girl.  

 

[TheIronSheik]

Im not mad either GB  

I don't recall those being his exact words. I'd have to dig up his actual apology, but i know it isn't the way you worded it. I won't agree that it was rape and unless you were there Im not sure how any unbiased person can say that he raped her without a doubt. Are you familiar with the case? Are you aware she voluntarily performed oral on him? That she showed up to the medical exam with underwear that contained another man's semen and pubic hair? That she changed her story about why she was late for work? that she was taking medication to treat schizophrenia? 

I'm saying I don't know what happened but that I have my doubts. Im not sure how you can say that he 100% without a doubt raped that girl.  

First, I want to apologize directly to the young woman involved in this incident. I want to apologize to her for my behavior that night and for the consequences she has suffered in the past year. Although this year has been incredibly difficult for me personally, I can only imagine the pain she has had to endure. I also want to apologize to her parents and family members, and to my family and friends and supporters, and to the citizens of Eagle, Colorado.

I also want to make it clear that I do not question the motives of this young woman. No money has been paid to this woman. She has agreed that this statement will not be used against me in the civil case. Although I truly believe this encounter between us was consensual, I recognize now that she did not and does not view this incident the same way I did. After months of reviewing discovery, listening to her attorney, and even her testimony in person, I now understand how she feels that she did not consent to this encounter.

I issue this statement today fully aware that while one part of this case ends today, another remains. I understand that the civil case against me will go forward. That part of this case will be decided by and between the parties directly involved in the incident and will no longer be a financial or emotional drain on the citizens of the state of Colorado.

 

[Smack Tripper]

It is so complicated. As I’ve stated, Kobe was the summit of my mountain as far as heroes when that happened. I was so disappointed, and (over time) sided with the woman. It’s clear he did things to her in that room that went beyond a consensual encounter. There were tears between her vagina and rectum.

Because I was such a fan and living in LA at the time, I followed very closely. My impression was that the victim didn’t want the attention and was truly deeply traumatized, and I believe that still. 

Most of us don’t have the luxury of buying ourselves out of years of prison time for something like that.

That said, we don’t know for sure what happened, and it’s certainly possible the woman’s displeasure wasn’t voiced during the encounter, and may have materialized subtly and piqued after. 

“Male toxicity” is a real thing. Kobe might have fallen into a role where he thought he was pleasing her. I’ve read that young women complain today that boys watch so much porn, they think what they see in hardcore porn is what women want.

Don’t know, but regardless it was a dark chapter.

He does seem to have learned from it, and lived what appeared to be an exemplary life before and after. 

I don’t have the answers for how and when someone can repent from something like that. I’d tend to defer to the victim. In my mind, he did, and everything I saw of him from then on seems consistent with a very good person building an enlightened life, and achieving wisdom and self-awareness.

It was apparent that he was a good father by watching the way his daughters looked at him. Can’t fake that level of pure devotion. 

But truth is, I don’t know to what degree that factors in a life where every other thing but that moment is legendary.

Wat?

 

[fissure man]

First, I want to apologize directly to the young woman involved in this incident. I want to apologize to her for my behavior that night and for the consequences she has suffered in the past year. Although this year has been incredibly difficult for me personally, I can only imagine the pain she has had to endure. I also want to apologize to her parents and family members, and to my family and friends and supporters, and to the citizens of Eagle, Colorado.

I also want to make it clear that I do not question the motives of this young woman. No money has been paid to this woman. She has agreed that this statement will not be used against me in the civil case. Although I truly believe this encounter between us was consensual, I recognize now that she did not and does not view this incident the same way I did. After months of reviewing discovery, listening to her attorney, and even her testimony in person, I now understand how she feels that she did not consent to this encounter.

I issue this statement today fully aware that while one part of this case ends today, another remains. I understand that the civil case against me will go forward. That part of this case will be decided by and between the parties directly involved in the incident and will no longer be a financial or emotional drain on the citizens of the state of Colorado.

So he disagrees that it was rape and knows that she feels that it wasn't consensual. 

OK, let me preface this by saying that our discussion is not even close to rape, but we have different opinions of what that statement means. Earlier in this thread we had a communication problem. People can see the same event happen and have completely different opinions of what actually happened. 

I'm leaving the door open on that premise. It's my opinion that more people would agree that he didn't rape her than did. I don't think he would have been declared guilty of rape had it gone to trial. She agreed to not testify if he didn't say that. Just like she took the payoff, he took the PR hit. 

I don't know the truth. I'm not sure anyone does. Given is track record since I tend to believe he didn't. 

 

[Leroy Hoard]

To me there are and were only 3 opinions that matter in this issue. The accuser, Kobe, and Kobe's wife. Since none of those 3 people seemed to have a problem with the eventual resolution, I'm not sure why this is any of our business.

 

[Bull Dozier]

To me there are and were only 3 opinions that matter in this issue. The accuser, Kobe, and Kobe's wife. Since none of those 3 people seemed to have a problem with the eventual resolution, I'm not sure why this is any of our business.

This is any of our business just like the personal lives of any public figure is our business.

If Kobe is to be lauded because he has been a great father, and apparently great husband since this event (which has been reported ad naseum), then both sides of the coin need to be shared.

Just because someone is wealthy enough to settle with "alleged" victims out of course, does not make them a saint (as he has been portrayed is the vast majority of reporting since his death).

People can be a fan of him, and I don't have a problem with that.  Few great athletes have a spotless record in their personal life.  I don't begrudge people for their feelings of loss, because the loss of human life is almost always a tragedy.  What I find ridiculous are the notions of retiring his number across the league, and chaning the NBA logo to his image.  I find that all to be knee jerk reactions to his death, and in my opinion, he is unworthy of those honors.  Again, JMO.

 

[tjnc09]

I thought it was cool of the Utah guy who stepped in the lane early on purpose so he could get another chance for 60 in his final game in case he missed. 

He said he didn’t do it on purpose

 

[jonessed]

To me there are and were only 3 opinions that matter in this issue. The accuser, Kobe, and Kobe's wife. Since none of those 3 people seemed to have a problem with the eventual resolution, I'm not sure why this is any of our business.

That’s a pretty messed up way to look at a rape.

 

[Mile High]

This is any of our business just like the personal lives of any public figure is our business.

If Kobe is to be lauded because he has been a great father, and apparently great husband since this event (which has been reported ad naseum), then both sides of the coin need to be shared.

Just because someone is wealthy enough to settle with "alleged" victims out of course, does not make them a saint (as he has been portrayed is the vast majority of reporting since his death).

People can be a fan of him, and I don't have a problem with that.  Few great athletes have a spotless record in their personal life.  I don't begrudge people for their feelings of loss, because the loss of human life is almost always a tragedy.  What I find ridiculous are the notions of retiring his number across the league, and chaning the NBA logo to his image.  I find that all to be knee jerk reactions to his death, and in my opinion, he is unworthy of those honors.  Again, JMO.

Personally I think they should retire the numbers of the 3 young ladies who died instead. 

 

[Leroy Hoard]

That’s a pretty messed up way to look at a rape.

It's pretty messed up only if she actually pressed charges. 

 

[jonessed]

It's pretty messed up if she actually pressed charges. 

It’s only messed up if she pressed charges?  Isn’t that kind of the point?  He bought her off.  It doesn’t suit society to have rapists buying off victims.  

Serious crimes are everybody’s business, regardless of what you may or may not have thought happened.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

It’s only messed up if she pressed charges?  Isn’t that kind of the point?  He bought her off.  It doesn’t suit society to have rapists buying off victims.  

Serious crimes are everybody’s business, regardless of what you may or may not have thought happened.

Tell that to the cops and prosecutors.

 

[Otis]

I think this should be his lasting legacy. I’ve always tried to covey this to my kids. 
 

https://twitter.com/sneakerhuddle/status/1222196703874469889?s=21

I know I’m in the minority on this, and this is being covered in the other thread about career paths and guiding our kids etc., but I actually feel like Kobe’s advice here isn’t very good. He’s ragging on his guidance counselor for advising him not to focus on basketball.  Of course FOR HIM, the one in a billion, that was terrible advice in retrospect. But for how many other kids, particularly inner city kids who have grown up thinking they will make a living being professional athletes, is that EXACTLY the dead on right advice those kids need to hear?

Anyway, a bit of an aside from the point of this thread, but I always wince when the star professional athlete suggests to kids “don’t listen to your guidance counselor when they tell you not to frame your future around being a professional athlete.  Follow your dreams!”  It’s a sweet sentiment and all, but jeez. 

 

[culdeus]

I had forgotten he only managed to pull in 1 MVP.  Somehow Steve Nash took two in his prime.  

 

[mozzy84]

Not sure what you're watching but NBC today show, CBS morning show, etc.....no mention of it. Just crying fans everywhere, pics of billboards, pics of memes with him and his daughter as angels. I'm not ####ting on the guy (I actually commend him for what he's done since the event) but let's ease up a little on him being the best role model every for kids around the world.

Yea I never heard it brought up one time on the TV anyways, not even a mention.  That said I didn’t even realize that he meant so much to so many people.  (I hate basketball and actually try to not follow it) I just thought he was good at basketball and played like forever.  Just another celebrity to me anyways.  

 

[CGRdrJoe]

leave it to the ffa to ruin a thread after 48 hours

 

[CletiusMaximus]

Did you read the article the suspended reporter posted to her Twitter account?  It has a pretty good summation of not only the facts of the case (both parties accounts, including portions of the transcripts of Kobe's police interview), but also the victim blaming she had to endure.

Agree that none of us were in the room, but Kobe's own words are damning to me (not that he admitted to it, but the way he answered questions and what he admitted to).

We can all form opinions based on what is known and our impression of what we read, but we're still filling in the gaps in our knowledge with assumptions, not facts.  Based on everything that is known in this case, I think it is offensive and ignorant to refer to Kobe as a "rapist."  He's always maintained his opinion that it was consensual.  He's acknowledged and validated the woman's contrary belief as to consent, which I think is commendable. He's not been convicted and the charges were dropped.  I understand why people do it, but it is offensive to me to hear that.