Kratom In The News - Treatment for Opioid Addiction (1 Viewer)

[Joe Bryant]

We talked about Kratom some back here https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/765182-how-best-to-fight-the-opioid-crisis/page/3/?tab=comments#comment-21438755

It's in the news yesterday. "What is kratom and what's it made from? Increasingly popular herbal drug tied to over 90 fatal overdoses"

This is important to me. I lost my younger brother several years ago and he'd been addicted to opioids. So I'm all about figuring out how to combat the problem. But also careful not to jump too quickly to other solutions. Kratom supporters claim it's safe and it's the other drugs that have caused the trouble and Kratom was just also present. 

You guys have experience or insight?

 

[Apple Jack]

Most of the deaths, they note that the person also had fentanyl, heroin, cocaine and other drugs in their systems. That is a very clear case of loading the stats. Fentanyl is one of the most lethal poisons in the world period. It's dishonest to present the data this way and obvious that there is an agenda there.

It's not totally inconceivable but based on my own anecdotal experience I have a hard time believing there have been any fatalities due solely to kratom overdose. Let's remember, you can overdose on water.

 

[rockaction]

We talked about Kratom some back here https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/765182-how-best-to-fight-the-opioid-crisis/page/3/?tab=comments#comment-21438755

It's in the news yesterday. "What is kratom and what's it made from? Increasingly popular herbal drug tied to over 90 fatal overdoses"

This is important to me. I lost my younger brother several years ago and he'd been addicted to opioids. So I'm all about figuring out how to combat the problem. But also careful not to jump too quickly to other solutions. Kratom supporters claim it's safe and it's the other drugs that have caused the trouble and Kratom was just also present. 

You guys have experience or insight?

I think that the problem here is that the FDA would like to be in control of all opiate-related things. I am not familiar with kratom, but am familiar with people that need prescriptions for other opiate withdrawal drugs like Suboxone.

Looks like Apple Jack covered exactly what I suspected before I even was able to post. It seems likely that there are/were other drugs involved, especially fentanyl. I am sadly familiar with many people who have lost loved ones to fentanyl.

As far as kratom goes, the evidence that AJ points out leads me to further believe that the FDA wants all drugs related to opiates under its purview, as is its bureaucratic wont.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Thanks. It's interesting to me how the words are used.

I know USA Today isn't a bastion of journalism excellence, but it's not like some random blog is saying this. 

And I've always thought of the Center for Disease Control as well regarded. 

What I don't know about is what is the threshold to determine something was "a cause of death". That's pretty strong. Clearly, it's more than just having Kratom in the system as it was not determined to be "a cause of death" in lots of the cases where Kratom was present. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/68/wr/mm6814a2.htm?s_cid=mm6814a2_w

Data on 27,338 overdose deaths that occurred during July 2016–December 2017 were entered into SUDORS, and 152 (0.56%) of these decedents tested positive for kratom on postmortem toxicology (kratom-positive). Postmortem toxicology testing protocols were not documented and varied among and within states. Kratom was determined to be a cause of death (i.e., kratom-involved) by a medical examiner or coroner for 91 (59.9%) of the 152 kratom-positive decedents, including seven for whom kratom was the only substance to test positive on postmortem toxicology, although the presence of additional substances cannot be ruled out (4).

 

[Apple Jack]

I think that the problem here is that the FDA would like to be in control of all opiate-related things. I am not familiar with kratom, but am familiar with people that need prescriptions for other opiate withdrawal drugs like Suboxone.

Looks like Apple Jack covered exactly what I suspected before I even was able to post. It seems likely that there are/were other drugs involved, especially fentanyl. I am sadly familiar with many people who have lost loved ones to fentanyl.

As far as kratom goes, the evidence that AJ points out leads me to further believe that the FDA wants all drugs related to opiates under its purview, as is its bureaucratic wont.

This is entirely about protecting the opiate industry. It's disgusting.

Kratom didn't really work for me anymore after a few years of heavy use, but I can assure anybody who will listen that it is infinitely safer than opiates. It's not even up for debate. It effectively has a built-in ceiling in terms its impact on opiod receptors, dopamine and the respiratory system. There is a long, long, long list of people who were on heavy opiate regimens for pain that were ecstatic to leave that all behind when they discovered kratom. The US needs to research this stuff and with an all-hands-on-deck type of urgency. You cannot talk about being serious about the opiate problem in this country and ignore kratom. It exposes anybody who does as fos.

 

[NotSmart]

We talked about Kratom some back here https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/765182-how-best-to-fight-the-opioid-crisis/page/3/?tab=comments#comment-21438755

It's in the news yesterday. "What is kratom and what's it made from? Increasingly popular herbal drug tied to over 90 fatal overdoses"

This is important to me. I lost my younger brother several years ago and he'd been addicted to opioids. So I'm all about figuring out how to combat the problem. But also careful not to jump too quickly to other solutions. Kratom supporters claim it's safe and it's the other drugs that have caused the trouble and Kratom was just also present. 

You guys have experience or insight?

I'm very sorry about your brother Joe.

The opioid crisis is a scourge on humanity.

Almost all families have been impacted by it, including my own - thankfully not my immediate family.

I genuinely appreciate your posts discussing different aspects of it.

 

[NutterButter]

I enjoy the social drugs and the feeling that comes with them so I had some hopes for kratom.   Even though it gives you a nice feeling, the hangover I experienced stunk.   Maybe I'm extra sensitive at my age b/c of my past history with ecstasy which eventually also got to the point where the hangover was unbearable.    

 

[D_House]

I don’t know much about kratom, I think it may not be popular in my community and usual drug screens don’t test for it. However, the trial data supporting the efficacy and safety of buprenorphine-suboxone and the increasing number of providers able to prescribe (and growing calls from the medical community to waive the requirement for additional training) makes it the better option until there is more information on the safety and benefits of kratom.

 

[matuski]

We talked about Kratom some back here https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/765182-how-best-to-fight-the-opioid-crisis/page/3/?tab=comments#comment-21438755

It's in the news yesterday. "What is kratom and what's it made from? Increasingly popular herbal drug tied to over 90 fatal overdoses"

This is important to me. I lost my younger brother several years ago and he'd been addicted to opioids. So I'm all about figuring out how to combat the problem. But also careful not to jump too quickly to other solutions. Kratom supporters claim it's safe and it's the other drugs that have caused the trouble and Kratom was just also present. 

You guys have experience or insight?

@Joe Bryant - look into ketamine infusion.

Serious.  Wife, best friends in life have a patent.  Anesthesiology drug that has shown to help with a variety of current day issues like addiction, pain, ptsd, etc.

eta - I don't remember what state you are in, but I can give you options in TX, NY, MS

 

[Joe Bryant]

I enjoy the social drugs and the feeling that comes with them so I had some hopes for kratom.   Even though it gives you a nice feeling, the hangover I experienced stunk.   Maybe I'm extra sensitive at my age b/c of my past history with ecstasy which eventually also got to the point where the hangover was unbearable.    

What's the guess for how much of Kratom is people using it for fun compared to how many are using it as a solution for opioid addiction? 

 

[flapgreen]

Have a friend who just had to go through a drug detox for kratom. It was hell. This stuff is really bad.

 

[Desert_Power]

I enjoy the social drugs and the feeling that comes with them so I had some hopes for kratom. Even though it gives you a nice feeling, the hangover I experienced stunk. Maybe I'm extra sensitive at my age b/c of my past history with ecstasy which eventually also got to the point where the hangover was unbearable.

What's the guess for how much of Kratom is people using it for fun compared to how many are using it as a solution for opioid addiction?

The one friend I know who was into Kratom would mostly just use it once he burned through his prescribed opioid pills way too quickly. He would also try to get high off of loperamide (the drug in anti-diarrhea pills. So he would just do anything he could to get that opiod feeling high.

Sadly, I had to cut him out of my life years ago. Hope he got at least somewhat cleaner.