Las Vegas Raiders - Relocation approved by a vote of 31-1 (1 Viewer)

[Mavis]

The NFL would move the Green Bay Packers to Portland and the Pittsburgh Steelers to Alaska if the money was right. 

 

[Stompin' Tom Connors]

I'm not really seeing fans driving 8 hours to attend games every week, or flying each weekend. But by all means, go for it. 

Of course Raider fans from Oakland or out of town will attend games in Vegas, just saying that Vegas is such a tourism attraction it's very likely away teams have more fans than the home team given the attractions. 

GB fans travel pretty well, but I was suprised to some degree how much GB fans outnumbered Titans fans at the latest Titan/Packer game. It was 2/3 Packer fans. Nashville is an attractive go-to destination for out of town fans. Vegas is 10x more. If I see Vegas on the Packers schedule, I'm probably texting my buddies right away to see if we can make it a weekend. 

FWIW, as an out of town fan, I am way more likely to go to Vegas to catch games than I was to Oakland. For one, I have come to be turned off by the experience of live games in Oakland. The stadium is truly horrendous, I shudder at having to brave that small bridge to the BART after the game that becomes so jammed with people that it induces claustrophobia even if you have never been claustrophobic before, and especially after a loss where all the drunken buffoons become angry. If I go, I stay in San Fran which is a great city but ridiculously expensive.

Compare that to Las Vegas. Always an abundance of cheap accessible flights, cheap hotel rooms right on the strip, the accessibility to a lot of fun before/after the game in the immediate vicinity of the stadium, etc. 

Will always cherish each pilgrimage I've made to Oakland, but honestly think it will be easier and more fun (across a number of factors) for this out of towner to go to Vegas than Oakland.

 

[TheFanatic]

FWIW, as an out of town fan, I am way more likely to go to Vegas to catch games than I was to Oakland. For one, I have come to be turned off by the experience of live games in Oakland. The stadium is truly horrendous, I shudder at having to brave that small bridge to the BART after the game that becomes so jammed with people that it induces claustrophobia even if you have never been claustrophobic before, and especially after a loss where all the drunken buffoons become angry. If I go, I stay in San Fran which is a great city but ridiculously expensive.

Compare that to Las Vegas. Always an abundance of cheap accessible flights, cheap hotel rooms right on the strip, the accessibility to a lot of fun before/after the game in the immediate vicinity of the stadium, etc. 

Will always cherish each pilgrimage I've made to Oakland, but honestly think it will be easier and more fun (across a number of factors) for this out of towner to go to Vegas than Oakland.

Excellent post. 

 

[jwb]

Living in Vegas, I am very much looking forward to this, but expect there to be a sour taste when they start selling PSL's.

I'm sure I'll need to buy tickets off Stubhub from the suckers...errrr investors that buy them.

Curious - How do you like living there?

I ask because I have friends who live there (and dislike it). On our last trip out (for a week last Oct), my wife and I made it a point to talk to lots of locals about living in Vegas, because we found it interesting. Probably talked to 100 people about it, from casino workers to waiters to clerks in stores, business owners, etc (and yes, we ventured way off the strip and Fremont). I would say from my completely unscientific anecdotal findings, 80% of the people  I spoke to dislike the area quite a bit, and most at least plan to move away over the next few years. Reasons cited? No sense of community, people come there to be jerks (both visitors and new residents), the place is ugly and constantly under construction, neighbors always moving in and out, etc. Our friends are moving to Florida this year, too. 

I'm sure there are people who love it (I did talk to a few), but the huge majority seemed to dislike it. They moved there because it seemed cool, and regret the move. Now admittedly, most folks I talked to dealt with the public to some degree, which likely skews things somewhat. But I wonder how that lack of deep roots affects a team's fan base? 

 

[Interseptopus]

FWIW, as an out of town fan, I am way more likely to go to Vegas to catch games than I was to Oakland. For one, I have come to be turned off by the experience of live games in Oakland. The stadium is truly horrendous, I shudder at having to brave that small bridge to the BART after the game that becomes so jammed with people that it induces claustrophobia even if you have never been claustrophobic before, and especially after a loss where all the drunken buffoons become angry. If I go, I stay in San Fran which is a great city but ridiculously expensive.

Compare that to Las Vegas. Always an abundance of cheap accessible flights, cheap hotel rooms right on the strip, the accessibility to a lot of fun before/after the game in the immediate vicinity of the stadium, etc. 

Will always cherish each pilgrimage I've made to Oakland, but honestly think it will be easier and more fun (across a number of factors) for this out of towner to go to Vegas than Oakland.

This is a point of view that I cannot relate to. I can definitely see this side to the argument after reading what you describe. Odd that a team moves further away but is more attractive to go to now for a variety of reasons. But it makes sense. If the stadium/experience is a disaster, commute is a nightmare, and the overall cost is outrageous then Vegas is incredibly more attractive as all 3 of those factors will be so much better, as well as you mentioned- there is so much more to do in Vegas

 

[CalBear]

I don't know what people are talking about with the stadium experience. I went to Levi Stadium last year. We parked in the parking lot, I went in and sat in my seat, and I maybe used the bathroom. And we left and went home. If you're not in one of the luxury boxes, the stadium experience is more or less the same everywhere. That's why the whole thing is such a scam for the average fan.

 

[Stompin' Tom Connors]

This is a point of view that I cannot relate to. I can definitely see this side to the argument after reading what you describe. Odd that a team moves further away but is more attractive to go to now for a variety of reasons. But it makes sense. If the stadium/experience is a disaster, commute is a nightmare, and the overall cost is outrageous then Vegas is incredibly more attractive as all 3 of those factors will be so much better, as well as you mentioned- there is so much more to do in Vegas

Agree that it's odd that actually going to games when the team move is more attractive to me, but acknowledge that experiences at games are variable between people. Nothing like the passionate fan base in Oakland, and my personal experience/view does nothing to take away the fact that the team's heart and soul will always be in Oakland. The Black Hole is a fixture in NFL fandom and lore for a reason.

Some of my reticence around going to games will be true no matter where the team plays. Take tailgating -- many have expressed the hope that the culture of tailgating will be encouraged in Vegas. Call me an old fogie, but to me it's an unmitigated disaster.

I'm not puritanical about people getting loose and having fun, but my experiences with tailgating at the Coliseum/O.co is not what I call a good time. People falling down drunk spewing epithets and other nonsense to each other and random strangers walking by (i.e. my family), rudeness, hostility, fights, vomiting organs out at 11 AM -- just stupid idiotic behavior. You see this everywhere for sure, and part of it is simply the NFL being fine with people swilling hard liquor for hours before a game. But I do not find it conducive to either instilling a love of the team in my boys, and frankly, not an environment I am at ease with even without the family.

If you look at the experience at modern stadiums like in Dallas, Minny, Atlanta, even MetLife and Lucas Oil Stadium, you have areas that are more conducive to things aside from getting your drink on. Great food, restaurants, Hall of Fame or team-specific memorability and museums, ordering food from your seat, plush lounges to enjoy, a variety of vendors -- all of it makes the experience of the stadium as a place, instead of the concrete jungle atmosphere the Coliseum and other older venues sometimes have. 

 

[Cookiemonster]

I don't know what people are talking about with the stadium experience. I went to Levi Stadium last year. We parked in the parking lot, I went in and sat in my seat, and I maybe used the bathroom. And we left and went home. If you're not in one of the luxury boxes, the stadium experience is more or less the same everywhere. That's why the whole thing is such a scam for the average fan.

Just the BART ride in... the last mile or two before getting to the stadium felt like you were entering a former war zone (and that's not too far from the truth).  Then, arriving at the stadium felt like you were being turned out into the POW camp (again, not far from the truth  ).  So, if even the mood of arrival is better it will make the experience better.  The walk through the hallways to the seats is grim, the bathrooms, the concessions, the below sea-level playing field and now the incentive for players and FA to go will all be vast improvements.  The airport will be right across the street.  If Vegas isn't your thing, there is still likely no city that has cheaper flights in and out and you could avoid all the glitz and slime of the strip for the most part if you wanted to.  I'm not a fan of Vegas myself but as someone who left California, I'm much more inclined to go see a Raiders game in LV than in Oakland.

 

[GregR]

Agree that it's odd that actually going to games when the team move is more attractive to me, but acknowledge that experiences at games are variable between people. Nothing like the passionate fan base in Oakland, and my personal experience/view does nothing to take away the fact that the team's heart and soul will always be in Oakland. The Black Hole is a fixture in NFL fandom and lore for a reason.

Some of my reticence around going to games will be true no matter where the team plays. Take tailgating -- many have expressed the hope that the culture of tailgating will be encouraged in Vegas. Call me an old fogie, but to me it's an unmitigated disaster.

I'm not puritanical about people getting loose and having fun, but my experiences with tailgating at the Coliseum/O.co is not what I call a good time. People falling down drunk spewing epithets and other nonsense to each other and random strangers walking by (i.e. my family), rudeness, hostility, fights, vomiting organs out at 11 AM -- just stupid idiotic behavior. You see this everywhere for sure, and part of it is simply the NFL being fine with people swilling hard liquor for hours before a game. But I do not find it conducive to either instilling a love of the team in my boys, and frankly, not an environment I am at ease with even without the family.

If you look at the experience at modern stadiums like in Dallas, Minny, Atlanta, even MetLife and Lucas Oil Stadium, you have areas that are more conducive to things aside from getting your drink on. Great food, restaurants, Hall of Fame or team-specific memorability and museums, ordering food from your seat, plush lounges to enjoy, a variety of vendors -- all of it makes the experience of the stadium as a place, instead of the concrete jungle atmosphere the Coliseum and other older venues sometimes have. 

I hope you get a chance to come tailgate at a Texans game sometime.  What you describe is nothing like my experience has been. I don't tailgate much anymore, but we did regularly for about 10 years.

 

[jvdesigns2002]

As a primary resident of California that owns real estate in Vegas- I think one fact that people are overlooking about the move to Vegas is the vast difference in state tax between Nevada and California.  California is one of the most highly taxed and regulated states to do business in-- while Nevada is pretty well the opposite. I'm thrilled about the move. Vegas locals are hungry for a team to be true fans of. It will vastly help with unemployment and will further its appeal as a tourist destination. Besides that- any excuse to go to Vegas is a good thing in my opinion.

 

[CalBear]

As a primary resident of California that owns real estate in Vegas- I think one fact that people are overlooking about the move to Vegas is the vast difference in state tax between Nevada and California.  California is one of the most highly taxed and regulated states to do business in-- while Nevada is pretty well the opposite. I'm thrilled about the move. Vegas locals are hungry for a team to be true fans of. It will vastly help with unemployment and will further its appeal as a tourist destination. Besides that- any excuse to go to Vegas is a good thing in my opinion.

There's no way that 8 games a year will "vastly help with unemployment". Football is very clearly an economic loser for cities.

 

[jvdesigns2002]

There's no way that 8 games a year will "vastly help with unemployment". Football is very clearly an economic loser for cities.

Building a stadium, the retail areas that will develop around the stadium, bars and restaurants- the additional flow of tourism will lead to further investment and development-- all of these things will help in employment. It's far greater than just 8 games.

 

[Hankmoody]

There's no way that 8 games a year will "vastly help with unemployment". Football is very clearly an economic loser for cities.

How about building a 1.7 Billion dollar stadium, and another $200 million worth of infrastructure improvements?

 

[CalBear]

How about building a 1.7 Billion dollar stadium, and another $200 million worth of infrastructure improvements?

Building a stadium, the retail areas that will develop around the stadium, bars and restaurants- the additional flow of tourism will lead to further investment and development-- all of these things will help in employment. It's far greater than just 8 games.

Building stadiums doesn't generate any more jobs than building anything else. You could build something useful instead.

Lively retail areas don't develop around football stadiums. Certainly not around the kind of stadium that's going to be built in Vegas. It will get eight football games a year, a couple of monster truck rallies, and otherwise be a huge box with nothing going on.

 

[SDJohnny]

Site is working now. 

http://www.reviewjournal.com/sports/raidersnfl/raiders-accepting-fan-deposits-place-history-las-vegas-stadium


By Jon Mark Saraceno
Las Vegas Review-Journal 


Oakland Raiders fans can reserve a personal seat license in the to-be-constructed Las Vegas stadium by depositing $100 with the franchise, the NFL team announced Tuesday.

The Raiders posted the ticket deposit information on the web site lasvegasstadium.raiders.com complete with a rendering of the planned $1.9-billion stadium, which will seat 65,000.

The link directs to page where deposits can be made for PSLs. The team said the deposit is refundable.

The Raiders, who will play in Oakland in 2017 and perhaps beyond, plan to compete in the new domed stadium in 2020. No site for the stadium has been determined.


 
Follow all of our Oakland Raiders to Las Vegas coverage online at reviewjournal.com/Raiders and @NFLinVegas on Twitter.

Jon Mark Saraceno can be reached at jsaraceno@reviewjournal.com. Follow @jonnysaraceno on Twitter.



 

The Raiders offered this "FAQ" about the tickets on the deposit website:

What do I get by placing a Las Vegas Stadium Personal Seat License ("PSL") deposit?

Placing a deposit to purchase a PSL at Las Vegas Stadium places you in line to have an opportunity topurchase a PSL from the Clark County Stadium Authority and Season Tickets to Raiders games played at thenew Las Vegas Stadium. In addition to securing your opportunity to purchase a PSL, placing your depositensures that you will receive information as it becomes available. Details regarding the process for the saleof PSLs and Raiders Season Tickets at the new Las Vegas Stadium are being finalized. Your Las VegasStadium PSL deposit will be applied toward a PSL purchase at the new Las Vegas Stadium. Only one depositper household is permitted.

What is the benefit of purchasing a PSL?

You will need to purchase a PSL from the Las Vegas Stadium Authority in order to purchase Raiders SeasonTickets. Details regarding pricing and seat rights to additional events at the new Las Vegas Stadium haveyet to be determined. A PSL is a one-time fee that will secure your right to purchase season tickets toRaiders games and other events at the new Las Vegas Stadium.

What happens if I sign up for more information but do not place a $100 Las Vegas Stadium PSLdeposit?

You will receive updates on the new Las Vegas Stadium. However, only purchasers of PSLs at the new LasVegas stadium will have the opportunity to purchase Raiders Season Tickets at the new Las Vegas Stadium.

Does placing a Las Vegas Stadium PSL deposit guarantee me the opportunity to purchase RaidersSeason Tickets at the new Las Vegas Stadium?

Those who place a Las Vegas Stadium PSL deposit will be offered the opportunity to purchase RaidersSeason Tickets based on the PSL sale and seat selection process administered by the Raiders.

When can I choose my specific Raiders Season Ticket location for the new Las Vegas Stadium?

Everyone who places a Las Vegas Stadium PSL deposit will receive information regarding the PSL sale andseat selection process as it becomes available. Specific Season Ticket locations are not guaranteed byplacing a $100 Las Vegas Stadium deposit.

What happens to my $100 Las Vegas Stadium PSL deposit if I choose to buy Season Tickets in 2017-2019?

Your Las Vegas Stadium deposit can only be applied towards the purchase of PSLs at the new Las VegasStadium.

When will the new Las Vegas Stadium open?

The new Las Vegas Stadium is currently anticipated to open for the 2020 NFL season.

What if Raiders Season Tickets sell out before I get the opportunity to purchase a PSL, or I do not likethe Season Ticket location offered to me?

In the event all Raiders Season Tickets are sold before you have had the opportunity to purchase a PSL andselect a Season Ticket offered to you (or you have the made a deposit to purchase a PSL but elect not topurchase the PSL and the Season Ticket locations offered), you have two options: (1) You can join the PSLand/or season ticket waitlist when/if created; or (2) You can request a full refund of your $100 Las VegasStadium PSL deposit.

— Source: Oakland Raiders.

 

[TheFanatic]

Building stadiums doesn't generate any more jobs than building anything else. You could build something useful instead.

Lively retail areas don't develop around football stadiums. Certainly not around the kind of stadium that's going to be built in Vegas. It will get eight football games a year, a couple of monster truck rallies, and otherwise be a huge box with nothing going on.

This is true. In St. Louis, the former Rams Dome makes more money now than when the Rams were here. See, the Rams had it blocked off for much of the year and paid squat to use the facility. Now they have all year to schedule all sorts of conventions and thus make more revenue that way.And it's not like Vegas is not already equipped to handle conventions. Adding a 60,000 seat dome is not going to make it much more of a convention draw than it already is. 

And the comment about increased night life with more bars and such around the stadium seems to not make sense. Generally football stadiums don't attract new bars and such because the establishment has to be able to sustain itself the other 357 days a year so only existing bars nearby benefit. And hell, it's Vegas. A new stadium is not going to raise the night life bar one iota in that city.

 

[Hankmoody]

Building a stadium, the retail areas that will develop around the stadium, bars and restaurants- the additional flow of tourism will lead to further investment and development-- all of these things will help in employment. It's far greater than just 8 games.

A big part of his point is that discretionary spending like this has been debunked as being impacted by a football team being there.  If people don't have a Raiders game to go to they will still go to a baseball game, the zoo, the museum.  They'll still spend that same discretionary money, it's just a shell game as to where.

However, Vegas is a much more interesting study being a destination location.  The Raiders could very will bring in more out of towners because there's so much more bang for the buck.  Very few people went to Oakland just because that's where you found the Raiders.  I have been to Vegas twice recently but both were outlier type events.  Now though?  I could see myself doing an annual trip.  Get a couple rounds of golf, catch a Raiders game, etc.  Cheap flights and cheap hotels change that dynamic a whole lot.  And I think a whole ton of Raiders fans as well as their opponents' fans will do the same.  Much easier to talk the family into a long weekend in Vegas than a long weekend in Kansas City in December.  I could see this being an exception to the rule where it does generate some new money for the area.

Building stadiums doesn't generate any more jobs than building anything else. You could build something useful instead.

Lively retail areas don't develop around football stadiums. Certainly not around the kind of stadium that's going to be built in Vegas. It will get eight football games a year, a couple of monster truck rallies, and otherwise be a huge box with nothing going on.

They do when it's building something that wouldn't otherwise be built.  The people already building those useful things aren't available to build the stadium.  That takes a new set of people, or the same set of people to work more hours or stretch the existing projects out over a longer period.  Bottom line new money spent is new money spent and adds to the work force.  It's not a zero sum because the building of that new stadium doesn't take away from anything else being built.  It's not like some casino guy is going to say "oh well, the stadium is coming next year, I will just stop all my plans".

 

[jvdesigns2002]

Building stadiums doesn't generate any more jobs than building anything else. You could build something useful instead.

Lively retail areas don't develop around football stadiums. Certainly not around the kind of stadium that's going to be built in Vegas. It will get eight football games a year, a couple of monster truck rallies, and otherwise be a huge box with nothing going on.

I completely disagree with you on your assessment of the impact of stadiums in communities. I can site you examples. Out here in Southern California there is Angels Stadium in Anaheim (where the Rams used to play, the Angels currently play--and they use the facilities for corporate events, monster truck rallies, dirk bike events..etc)  that was positioned right in the middle of an undesirable commercial/industrial area.   In the last 10-15 years--this undesirable area has blossomed into a community filled with lofts, condos, apartments and even an artistic area where artisans could use the first floor of their buildings as galleries while residing in the levels above.   It has truly been a renaissance.    The exact same thing has happened to the area surrounding Staples center over the last 10-15 years.  That area was riddled with poverty, low income housing and lots of industrial types of businesses.  Now--you'll find lots of pricey high rise lofts, great restaurants and fantastic boutiques.       

Secondly--I think you are vastly selling short how Vegas does things.  The NFL is possibly the biggest entertainment phenomenon in the United States--and Vegas is arguably the entertainment capital of the United States.   As somebody that has decades of experience and wisdom in how Vegas tackles events/opportunities--I can tell you--that they are not just going to build some sort of one dimensional structure that'll be used a couple dozen times a year.   Vegas will take things to a new level--they will integrate things into this stadium that will add to the entire entertainment infrastructure of the city.    Vegas is dying to show off what it is all about beyond the strip--and this stadium will help do that.   

 

[krsone21]

This is true. In St. Louis, the former Rams Dome makes more money now than when the Rams were here. See, the Rams had it blocked off for much of the year and paid squat to use the facility. Now they have all year to schedule all sorts of conventions and thus make more revenue that way.And it's not like Vegas is not already equipped to handle conventions. Adding a 60,000 seat dome is not going to make it much more of a convention draw than it already is. 

And the comment about increased night life with more bars and such around the stadium seems to not make sense. Generally football stadiums don't attract new bars and such because the establishment has to be able to sustain itself the other 357 days a year so only existing bars nearby benefit. And hell, it's Vegas. A new stadium is not going to raise the night life bar one iota in that city.

Actually adding the stadium will be a convention draw for Las Vegas. I have read that some of the conventions being held in Las Vegas were considering going elswhere because they convention facilities that Las Vegas did have were getting to small. Building the stadium will take care of that problem.

Besides the Raiders and Rebels playing at the stadium they have the opportunity to host events like the Super Bowl, Pro Bowls, NFL Drafts, A college football national title game,  NCAA Basketball Tournaments and final four, Bowl Games, International soccer games, UFC, etc. Plus from what I read they plan on having a variety of other events.

I believe other then the Raiders and Rebels they are looking at around 40-60+ events a year the stadium.

 

[CalBear]

I completely disagree with you on your assessment of the impact of stadiums in communities. I can site you examples. Out here in Southern California there is Angels Stadium in Anaheim (where the Rams used to play, the Angels currently play--and they use the facilities for corporate events, monster truck rallies, dirk bike events..etc)  that was positioned right in the middle of an undesirable commercial/industrial area.   In the last 10-15 years--this undesirable area has blossomed into a community filled with lofts, condos, apartments and even an artistic area where artisans could use the first floor of their buildings as galleries while residing in the levels above.   It has truly been a renaissance.    The exact same thing has happened to the area surrounding Staples center over the last 10-15 years.  That area was riddled with poverty, low income housing and lots of industrial types of businesses.  Now--you'll find lots of pricey high rise lofts, great restaurants and fantastic boutiques.       

Secondly--I think you are vastly selling short how Vegas does things.  The NFL is possibly the biggest entertainment phenomenon in the United States--and Vegas is arguably the entertainment capital of the United States.   As somebody that has decades of experience and wisdom in how Vegas tackles events/opportunities--I can tell you--that they are not just going to build some sort of one dimensional structure that'll be used a couple dozen times a year.   Vegas will take things to a new level--they will integrate things into this stadium that will add to the entire entertainment infrastructure of the city.    Vegas is dying to show off what it is all about beyond the strip--and this stadium will help do that.   

Baseball has 81 home games a year. Basketball has 41 home games, and basketball arenas are way more useful than football stadiums for things other than basketball. Football has 8 games. Having 5-10 times as many activities makes a difference.

And, there are depressed areas of cities revitalizing all over the country. Oakland has all kinds of districts which are going through the same process of gentrification and affluence, and not only have we not built a stadium, we're in the process of losing all of our sports teams.

You want to know the one place in Oakland which isn't experiencing revitalization? The area around the Coliseum and the airport.

 

[jvdesigns2002]

Baseball has 81 home games a year. Basketball has 41 home games, and basketball arenas are way more useful than football stadiums for things other than basketball. Football has 8 games. Having 5-10 times as many activities makes a difference.

And, there are depressed areas of cities revitalizing all over the country. Oakland has all kinds of districts which are going through the same process of gentrification and affluence, and not only have we not built a stadium, we're in the process of losing all of our sports teams.

You want to know the one place in Oakland which isn't experiencing revitalization? The area around the Coliseum and the airport.

Yes--but you are assuming that this stadium will only be used a dozen times a year.  They can use this venue for concerts, boxing matches, music festivals, conventions--so I'm not sure why you are so certain on the usage of this particular arena?   Mark my words--Vegas will milk and monetize this thing to death.   Vegas will glam it out and go over the top with it--something that Oakland would never do.   You are comparing apples to oranges by comparing a city like Oakland to a city like Vegas when it comes to things like this.   My guess is that Vegas hotels will offer tours of the stadium (offer tourists tours based on the NFL experience) and create attractions that are linked to the presense of this stadium and an NFL team.    This is not going to be some hollow box that is used 20 days out of the year and is dark the rest of the time.   I think this is where you and I disagree--and only time will tell which opinion ends up being closer to reality. 

 

[Cookiemonster]

To add to the potential for championship games and concerts and such, many cities don't have the capacity in hotels, restaurants and other entertainment to completely support the influx of fans and media and support personnel for the whole week of the event.  Vegas probably has more hotel rooms than any city in the country and plenty of other things to do before and after the game / event.  Also much less likely to see the price gouging for these hotel rooms because most of the rooms that Vegas has to offer is also tied to ulterior motives of getting people into those rooms, and why those casinos often provide rooms as comps to fill their casinos and restaurants.

The history of Oakland and the Raiders belong together, but the times have moved on.  Nobody thought Al Davis running the team was good for the Raiders or the NFL during the last 5-10 years of his tenure despite the respect and history his legacy owned.  The game moves on whether you're ready for it or not and this move is one that was long overdue and I can't think of a better destination for this team.  LA would have worked fine if the Rams hadn't pushed their will and way in.  SD would just be wrong.  San Antonio was far from ideal.  Where else would they go, if not here?  Viva Las Vaders!  

 

[krsone21]

Raiders-themed brothel to coincide with Vegas move, include team specials
USA TODAY Sports

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2017/03/28/raiders-brothel-las-vegas/99724340/

 

[CalBear]

Yes--but you are assuming that this stadium will only be used a dozen times a year.  They can use this venue for concerts, boxing matches, music festivals, conventions--so I'm not sure why you are so certain on the usage of this particular arena?   Mark my words--Vegas will milk and monetize this thing to death.   Vegas will glam it out and go over the top with it--something that Oakland would never do.   You are comparing apples to oranges by comparing a city like Oakland to a city like Vegas when it comes to things like this.   My guess is that Vegas hotels will offer tours of the stadium (offer tourists tours based on the NFL experience) and create attractions that are linked to the presense of this stadium and an NFL team.    This is not going to be some hollow box that is used 20 days out of the year and is dark the rest of the time.   I think this is where you and I disagree--and only time will tell which opinion ends up being closer to reality. 

Football stadiums make crappy concert venues and crappy convention venues. So yes, in addition to getting a football stadium that will be used 8 times a year, you'll get a crappy venue for other kinds of events.

$750 million. That's larger than the annual municipal budget of the city. 

 

[krsone21]

Vincent Bonsignore‏ @DailyNewsVinny  1h1 hour ago
FYI on #Raiders: Depending on how things turn out in Oakland in 2017, don't rule out San Antonio as a possible temp venue next couple years

 

[lakerstan]

Curious - How do you like living there?

I ask because I have friends who live there (and dislike it). On our last trip out (for a week last Oct), my wife and I made it a point to talk to lots of locals about living in Vegas, because we found it interesting. Probably talked to 100 people about it, from casino workers to waiters to clerks in stores, business owners, etc (and yes, we ventured way off the strip and Fremont). I would say from my completely unscientific anecdotal findings, 80% of the people  I spoke to dislike the area quite a bit, and most at least plan to move away over the next few years. Reasons cited? No sense of community, people come there to be jerks (both visitors and new residents), the place is ugly and constantly under construction, neighbors always moving in and out, etc. Our friends are moving to Florida this year, too. 

I'm sure there are people who love it (I did talk to a few), but the huge majority seemed to dislike it. They moved there because it seemed cool, and regret the move. Now admittedly, most folks I talked to dealt with the public to some degree, which likely skews things somewhat. But I wonder how that lack of deep roots affects a team's fan base? 

I used to live in Southern California until 1999, and while I will always consider it home, every time I go back I consider myself lucky not to deal with the traffic and overcrowded place it has become.  My reason for moving is that I was young and houses in decent areas of California were just too expensive.  I didn't want to be a renter forever, and I could transfer with my company, so I moved here and bought a home.

Vegas is....ok.

Things I like:  Entertainment, dining, easy access to airport for travel, low traffic (compared to California), cost of living, nice outdoors scene, clean air, nice weather (other than hot July and August).  Construction has increased, yes, but to me, that is a sign of a growing city.

Things I don't:  While industry is diversifying, it is still very dependent on tourism (but I work for a finance company and seldom spend time on the strip).  5 hour drive to any beach.  3 hour drive to any other signs of civilization.  I don't have kids, but schools apparently suck.

We've been sold the idea of professional sports coming here for over a decade, but it has always felt like a tease.  "We'll believe it when we see it".  I think that between the new NHL team and the Raiders, our little city is graduating to the big leagues, and I hope that helps diversify industry even further as the stigma of it being just a place to gamble reduces.

i don't know that I'll stay here when I retire, but for now, it's ok.....and it will be better when live NFL games are 20 minutes from my house.

 

[krsone21]

Proposed Las Vegas Raiders Stadium Virtual Tour | NFL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbOiOP4zD5s

 

[Saboo]

I hate this move...The Oakland Raiders are a storied NFL franchise. The Las Vegas Raiders are just another expansion who are going to have a hard time selling tickets in a plastic city with few non transplants... It would be like the Boston Celtics picking up and moving to New Jersey to make a few more bucks.

 

[J R]

You want to know the one place in Oakland which isn't experiencing revitalization? The area around the Coliseum and the airport.

CalBear is killing it in this thread.

 

[Cookiemonster]

^^agree

While I've been in support of the move because Oakland couldn't happen, I think if the politicians were football fans, and if Mark and Reggie had taken over a couple years earlier, success would have been selling tickets, merchandise and TV slots worthy of the NFL business keeping them where they are.

 

[Charlie Harper]

Building a stadium, the retail areas that will develop around the stadium, bars and restaurants- the additional flow of tourism will lead to further investment and development-- all of these things will help in employment. It's far greater than just 8 games.

Yes, because Vegas needs more bars, restaurants, and malls.

 

[jvdesigns2002]

Yes, because Vegas needs more bars, restaurants, and malls.

It's not what an area "needs"--its just what I think will happen as a result of the move.  Do you think that the building of a huge stadium and the moving professional sports team moving to a city that is predicated on entertainment is going to result in fewer bars, restaurants and malls?    Vegas hasn't reached some sort of "peak" in regards to its tourist potential.   In fact--vegas had its best year in regards to tourism last year-42.9 million tourists visited.  Because of this continuing trend in the uptick in tourism--there were already several large developments that were going into vegas even before the Raiders announced the move.  Look into a project called Resorts world--a giant Asian themed mega resort that is scheduled to open on the strip sometime between 2019 and 2020.  One would argue that Vegas doesnt "need" any more hotels or casinos--but the market and the numbers are saying something different.   Several years ago--nobody ever would have said that Vegas needed a giant exhibition wheel and a promenade that leads up to it in between the Flamingo and the Linq--and now that promenade is thriving and is a bustling center of activity.   The thing is that as these projects get completed--it even draws more tourists to vegas--just like the Raiders will, the new Stadium will in regards to the games and events it houses, and these new resorts will.   All of these things will require the building of more malls, casinos, bars, and restauarants and the necessary infrastructure that comes with these things.  

 

[CalBear]

It's not what an area "needs"--its just what I think will happen as a result of the move.  Do you think that the building of a huge stadium and the moving professional sports team moving to a city that is predicated on entertainment is going to result in fewer bars, restaurants and malls?    

It's definitely going to result in fewer bars, restaurants and malls than $750M invested in a better project somewhere else in the city would. And there's little reason to expect that the move will result in significant new hospitality income.

 

[jvdesigns2002]

It's definitely going to result in fewer bars, restaurants and malls than $750M invested in a better project somewhere else in the city would. And there's little reason to expect that the move will result in significant new hospitality income.

Dude--why are you so salty?  You are making a ton of assumptions. First--the assumption that the new stadium will be used a dozen or so times a year.   Then assuming that a city would have spent the same money on a stadium for an NFL team on some sort of random different project had that stadium not happened.   Then made the point that somehow building a giant stadium will not help out at all in regards to unemployment--and so on and so on.  We get it--you don't like the move--and we all understand your argument that there might be better investments than NFL teams and stadiums--but that also doesn't mean that you have an obligation to be negative about EVERY potentially positive aspect of a new stadium/team going to Vegas.  While--I'm excited about the outlook of a team moving to Vegas--even I understand that there will be some negative attributes to it. You on the other hand refuse to understand or acknowledge that there could actually be a few positive aspects to it.  A city having an NFL team is not the worst thing on the planet.  In fact there are plenty of cities that have NFL teams that are thrilled about them.  Many of those teams are part of the fabric of the culture that makes that city what it is.  According to your logic--no city should have an NFL team because they by nature are terrible.   That's just not true.  

 

[Hankmoody]

It's definitely going to result in fewer bars, restaurants and malls than $750M invested in a better project somewhere else in the city would. And there's little reason to expect that the move will result in significant new hospitality income.

It wasn't money from their city budget.  It's a new hospitality tax specifically to fund the stadium.

 

[Stompin' Tom Connors]

Proposed Las Vegas Raiders Stadium Virtual Tour | NFL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbOiOP4zD5s

Solid link, thanks. A little sterile and I don't necessarily get the gimmick of just one panel on the side sliding open, but do like the view it gives of Vegas and the AD torch.

One thing that stood out -- toooooooooooooons of luxury boxes stretching the entire length of the field on both sides. This is financial benefit of a new stadium, for better or worse.

 

[tombonneau]

Whoever their kicker is in 2020, Raiders better make sure he's well paid.

 

[CalBear]

It wasn't money from their city budget.  It's a new hospitality tax specifically to fund the stadium.

Of course it's money from the city budget. Who else would be collecting the taxes? It's a new city tax which represents a choice by the city about how to generate revenue and what to fund with that revenue.

As is usually the case in these situations, it also represents municipal decision-making which is completely disconnected from analysis and research about spending, opportunity cost, and public benefit.

 

[Silver & Black]

I love the move.  All I can say is my wife already signed off on me taking a trip once a year to catch a game.  I'll be taking Friday off and spending a few days drinking, gambling and golfing before catching that game.  Can't freaking wait! 

 

[krsone21]

Solid link, thanks. A little sterile and I don't necessarily get the gimmick of just one panel on the side sliding open, but do like the view it gives of Vegas and the AD torch.

One thing that stood out -- toooooooooooooons of luxury boxes stretching the entire length of the field on both sides. This is financial benefit of a new stadium, for better or worse.

The field will roll outside to get sun and whatnot since the Raiders want to play on grass. They will do this instead of having a retractable roof.

 

[Stompin' Tom Connors]

The field will roll outside to get sun and whatnot since the Raiders want to play on grass. They will do this instead of having a retractable roof.

Thanks for the education -- on the video, to me, just looked like a giant window in the side -- didn't realize that entire wall slid open so they could maintain the turf like they do in AZ. 

 

[Sarlakticacid]

Whoever their kicker is in 2020, Raiders better make sure he's well paid.

Im sure it will only be opened with a nice headwind blowing through there for the visiting team

 

[krsone21]

Thanks for the education -- on the video, to me, just looked like a giant window in the side -- didn't realize that entire wall slid open so they could maintain the turf like they do in AZ. 

It is just a window that slides open. There is a slot where the field will roll out of.

I will see if I can find a picture of where the field rolls out of.

Here is a link that has a lot of video and pictures of the Raiders Vegas stadium. Around the 5th picture down there is a great shot of the field outside the stadium and you can see a little slot there where it would roll back into the stadium. On game day when they roll in the field that area where the field was will turn into a place to party before the game. They will put up tents and whatnot. You can see that in one of the pictures as well.

New video, pics of Raiders Las Vegas stadium renderings
by Levi Damien

http://www.silverandblackpride.com/2017/3/27/15081178/new-video-pics-of-raiders-las-vegas-stadium-renderings

 

[GregR]

Building stadiums doesn't generate any more jobs than building anything else. You could build something useful instead.

Lively retail areas don't develop around football stadiums. Certainly not around the kind of stadium that's going to be built in Vegas. It will get eight football games a year, a couple of monster truck rallies, and otherwise be a huge box with nothing going on.

In a thread about stadium costs I posted a summary of the schedule at Houston's NRG complex... the stadium, convention center and arena that all use the same infrastructure. Starting from the Super Bowl, the following 4 months had 54 events scheduled already, with 29 of them at the stadium itself.

I think you are heinously under-estimating how much stadiums can get used. 

 

[CalBear]

In a thread about stadium costs I posted a summary of the schedule at Houston's NRG complex... the stadium, convention center and arena that all use the same infrastructure. Starting from the Super Bowl, the following 4 months had 54 events scheduled already, with 29 of them at the stadium itself.

I think you are heinously under-estimating how much stadiums can get used. 

This is a subject which has been pretty extensively studied, and pretty much all the studies have shown that football stadiums are major losers. Arenas, less so, and convention centers less than that. So it makes no sense to put $750M into a football stadium when you could build an arena for half of that, and a convention center for half of the cost of an arena, and both of those would generate more revenue than the football stadium. How many of the NPG complex were actually using the football facility? (None)

 

[krsone21]

In a thread about stadium costs I posted a summary of the schedule at Houston's NRG complex... the stadium, convention center and arena that all use the same infrastructure. Starting from the Super Bowl, the following 4 months had 54 events scheduled already, with 29 of them at the stadium itself.

I think you are heinously under-estimating how much stadiums can get used. 

I agree, the Raiders Vegas stadium will get plenty of events other then Raiders and Rebels football games. I have read from several sources that they expect 50+ events at the Raiders stadium in Vegas each year.

 

[krsone21]

Raiders Unveil New Logo After Announcing Move To Las Vegas
By NFLMemes

https://dailysnark.com/las-vegas-raiders-proposed-new-logo-leaked-filing-relocation-oakland/

Too soon?

 

[Stompin' Tom Connors]

Raiders Unveil New Logo After Announcing Move To Las Vegas
By NFLMemes

https://dailysnark.com/las-vegas-raiders-proposed-new-logo-leaked-filing-relocation-oakland/

Too soon?

LOL, ouch. 

It did make me think though -- the Raiders actual logo? Just has the words RAIDERS on it. Not a location. Something we should remember for the days ahead: the Raiders aren't a location, they are a state of mind. An ethos. A galvanizing (and violent, swashbuckling) force.

Once a Raider, Always a Raider. No matter where they hang their hat, it's their home. 

 

[joey]

LOL, ouch. 

It did make me think though -- the Raiders actual logo? Just has the words RAIDERS on it. Not a location. Something we should remember for the days ahead: the Raiders aren't a location, they are a state of mind. An ethos. A galvanizing (and violent, swashbuckling) force.

Once a Raider, Always a Raider. No matter where they hang their hat, it's their home. 

that fact has gone in and out of my mind the entire time we've been talking about relocation over the past few years.

We are the RAIDERS with no location attached to the team.

Easier for me to saying growning up a Raiders fan in NYC and not really knowing (or caring about) the difference between when they were in Oakland, and then LA, and then back to Oakland. I just love the RAIDERS.

Only in 1963 did the Raiders logo have the word "Oakland" in it. Just "Raiders" every other year of existence.

http://sportslogohistory.com/oakland-raiders-primary-logo/

Al was ahead of the times!

 

[BustedKnuckles]

The NFL would move the Green Bay Packers to Portland and the Pittsburgh Steelers to Alaska if the money was right. 

well seeing they want an NFL team in London i couldnt agree more...money really is everything in the end