Lebron James will never win a championship... (1 Viewer)

[Brony]

That's because most fans understand what Pippin was.

a lavish Broadway musical?

 

[JuniorNB]

LeBron's closest comparisons at this point, IMO, are Kareem, Wilt & Russell (personally I'm not that high on Russell but others like to put him up here).  I feel like he has surpassed Magic & Bird at this stage.  Duncan, Kobe, Shaq and Olajuwan are firmly in his rearview mirror.

I can't see how anyone could put Lebron below any of those three. All great centers who made huge impacts on their teams, but as far as all-around players, they all pale badly in comparison to James.  James' ridiculous skillset is what puts him in Jordan's tier. I put a lot of weight on versatility. That's why I have Oscar Robertson and Magic Johnson in my top five also.

 

[Tau837]

This board sucks. Can't quote someone without some cached previous reply coming up.

Regarding "supporting casts": Wade, Bosh, Allen, Battier >> Pippen (1991-93), Grant, Cartwright, Paxson/Armstrong. It's not close.

And Irving, Love, Thompson, Smith is also better than Jordan's support in 1991-93. Sure, Love didn't look good in a bad matchup for him against the Warriors, but the rest of them looked great in that series.

People seriously overrate Jordan's supporting cast. Pippen was absolutely great, but Grant is extremely overrated in retrospect... he averaged 11 ppg and 8 rpg in his career and made one All Star game... in the season Jordan didn't play. The rest of Jordan's support -- Cartwright, Paxson, Armstrong, Scott Williams, Stacey King, et al. -- were all JAGs at best.

Jordan's supporting cast was better in the second three title run. Pippen was better then, Rodman was crazy but more effective than Grant, Harper and Kerr were upgrades over Paxson/Armstrong, etc. But the masses seriously underestimate how great Jordan was to elevate his team to the first 3 championships.

 

[Shutout]

This board sucks. Can't quote someone without some cached previous reply coming up.

Regarding "supporting casts": Wade, Bosh, Allen, Battier >> Pippen (1991-93), Grant, Cartwright, Paxson/Armstrong. It's not close.

And Irving, Love, Thompson, Smith is also better than Jordan's support in 1991-93. Sure, Love didn't look good in a bad matchup for him against the Warriors, but the rest of them looked great in that series.

People seriously overrate Jordan's supporting cast. Pippen was absolutely great, but Grant is extremely overrated in retrospect... he averaged 11 ppg and 8 rpg in his career and made one All Star game... in the season Jordan didn't play. The rest of Jordan's support -- Cartwright, Paxson, Armstrong, Scott Williams, Stacey King, et al. -- were all JAGs at best.

Jordan's supporting cast was better in the second three title run. Pippen was better then, Rodman was crazy but more effective than Grant, Harper and Kerr were upgrades over Paxson/Armstrong, etc. But the masses seriously underestimate how great Jordan was to elevate his team to the first 3 championships.

And the league actually played defense back then. 

 

[TobiasFunke]

This board sucks. Can't quote someone without some cached previous reply coming up.

Try control-right click-"remove quote."

Also how can you insult the board after Brony's Pippin joke?  That was gold!  Best laugh I've had this week.

 

[Grace Under Pressure]

I've heard/seen a lot of agreement that he's passed Kobe/Shaq/Bird as guys are going through their top 5 lists, and have also heard a lot of guys say he's now the best forward ever.

 

[Grace Under Pressure]

The Kobe/Lebron thread was good, is that purged?

 

[Synthesizer]

That was possibly the most dominant finals performance I have ever seen but I think that Magic in the 1980 finals should at least be in the conversation.

21.5 points, 11.2 reb, 8.2 ast, 2.7 steals, 0.3 blocks and 57.3% FG (87.5% from the stripe).

And he did it as a 20 year old rookie, single handedly clinching the series 4-2 on the road with 42 points, 15 rebounds and 7 assists without Kareem on the floor.

That game was dominant but in the other 5 games of the series he averaged 17 points, right?

 

[Henry Ford]

The Kobe/Lebron thread was good, is that purged?

No, I think it's still around.

 

[TobiasFunke]

So who's the next #1 target of the Hot Take industry now that LeBron is pretty much beyond reproach?  Cam Newton seems like the obvious choice.  Anyone else in the running?

 

[George Jefferson Airplane]

That's because most fans understand what Pippin was.

Bruce Bowen with a medium range jumper? 

 

[Tom Servo]

Also, Timmy > Lebron.

You know, if I cared a whit about basketball, I might take the bait. But since I'm just here to read a debate about LBJ v. MJ, you'll have to try harder.

 

[matuski]

You know, if I cared a whit about basketball, I might take the bait. But since I'm just here to read a debate about LBJ v. MJ, you'll have to try harder.

Its OK, when it comes to my rankings I am right 100% of the time.  Nothing to argue really.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

So who's the next #1 target of the Hot Take industry now that LeBron is pretty much beyond reproach?  Cam Newton seems like the obvious choice.  Anyone else in the running?

In any given year there are several elite athletes/teams who aren't winning a title. There's always grist for the mill.

 

[JuniorNB]

Its OK, when it comes to my rankings I am right 100% of the time.  Nothing to argue really.

Tim Duncan's strength was his leadership and his consistency. I don't think I ever watched a Spurs game and came away thinking how awesome of a player Tim Duncan is. But I always thought he was a steady force who seemed like he'd been playing 30 years. Definitely a top 15 all-time player. But nowhere near Lebron as a talent or impact maker.

 

[Spartans Rule]

So who's the next #1 target of the Hot Take industry now that LeBron is pretty much beyond reproach?  Cam Newton seems like the obvious choice.  Anyone else in the running?

I'm impressed by the Steph Curry hot takes already. He went from game-changing revolutionary to one-dimensional chucker who couldn't have made it in the 90s NBA pretty quickly.

 

[matuski]

Tim Duncan's strength was his leadership and his consistency. I don't think I ever watched a Spurs game and came away thinking how awesome of a player Tim Duncan is. But I always thought he was a steady force who seemed like he'd been playing 30 years. Definitely a top 15 all-time player. But nowhere near Lebron as a talent or impact maker.

This is where every one weighs talent versus stats versus leadership versus accomplishments differently.

 

[JuniorNB]

This is where every one weighs talent versus stats versus leadership versus accomplishments differently.

After this last championship, not many are weighing Lebron vs. Duncan differently. Not sure there's one basketball expert who would even have them close. Duncan is a nice player. Stayed consistent for many years. Great teammate. Not even in he same conversation as guys like Jordan and Lebron

 

[thecatch]

I don't think I ever watched a Spurs game and came away thinking how awesome of a player Tim Duncan is.

Oh my. 

 

[matuski]

After this last championship, not many are weighing Lebron vs. Duncan differently. Not sure there's one basketball expert who would even have them close. Duncan is a nice player. Stayed consistent for many years. Great teammate. Not even in he same conversation as guys like Jordan and Lebron

Are there experts in all time rankings?  Is that like a fantasy football expert?

Starting a team today I will take Tim's career over Lebrons... for now.  And Lebron is not in the conversation with Jordan for me (nor is Duncan).

 

[General Malaise]

Put this down in history.

LBJ will never win an NBA championship. He doesnt have the killer instinct or clutch play to become the best. He'll never be Magic and no way will he ever be Jordan.

I still think he'll become one of the best players in the NBA, but he'll be just like Peyton Manning. All stats and no rings.

If it takes a supposed franchise savior 3 NBA season before he hits a game winner... there's a problem. What's even worse is he has been considered "the man" practially since he put on a Cavs jersey.

Wade amd Melo on the other hand will win their fair share of championships.

Can I get some stock picks from you please?  I'd like to check the borrow on each and every one.

 

[JuniorNB]

Are there experts in all time rankings?  Is that like a fantasy football expert?

Starting a team today I will take Tim's career over Lebrons... for now.  And Lebron is not in the conversation with Jordan for me (nor is Duncan).

Starting a team today, I can name a bunch of players who play Duncan's position that were better than him. Wilt, Shaq, Kareem, Russell. And others who played it just as well. Olajuwon, Malone...

No one has ever played forward better than Lebron. Tim is top 15. Lebron is top 2. Not even a comparison really.

 

[matuski]

Starting a team today, I can name a bunch of players who play Duncan's position that were better than him. Wilt, Shaq, Kareem, Russell. And others who played it just as well. Olajuwon, Malone...

No one has ever played forward better than Lebron. Tim is top 15. Lebron is top 2. Not even a comparison really.

You seem to be unfamiliar with the position Tim played.  Not a good look for your credibility.

 

[Jayrod]

Starting a team today, I can name a bunch of players who play Duncan's position that were better than him. Wilt, Shaq, Kareem, Russell. And others who played it just as well. Olajuwon, Malone...

No one has ever played forward better than Lebron. Tim is top 15. Lebron is top 2. Not even a comparison really.

Duncan is a power forward.  You named off a bunch of centers.

 

[matuski]

I'm going to take the fact that you were unimpressed with Duncan after allegedly watching him, followed by ranking him against centers - and let that speak for itself.

 

[Gary Coal Man]

Stay tuned as Junior ranks Jordan against the other great guards of all time -- John Hannah, Gene Upshaw, and Larry Allen. 

 

[Long Ball Larry]

That's because most fans understand what Pippin was.

a wonderful musical, that's for sure.

 

[JuniorNB]

You seem to be unfamiliar with the position Tim played.  Not a good look for your credibility.

Meh.  You have a top 15-20 player ahead of a consensus top 5.  You probably don't want t bring up credibility.

 

[Jayrod]

I can't see how anyone could put Lebron below any of those three. All great centers who made huge impacts on their teams, but as far as all-around players, they all pale badly in comparison to James.  James' ridiculous skillset is what puts him in Jordan's tier. I put a lot of weight on versatility. That's why I have Oscar Robertson and Magic Johnson in my top five also.

You can make the argument, but those 3 centers controlled the game on both ends of the floor.  

Personally, I don't consider Russell in that tier, but Wilt and Kareem absolutely belong in the 2-4 range.  They were better scorers and rebounders than LeBron, Oscar and Magic.  They were easily better defenders than Oscar or Magic and on par or better than LeBron.  Those two were such physical freaks that they would have likely been able to hang with today's players, especially if given the sports science and nutrition we have today.  Wilt was like a leaner and quicker version of Shaq and Kareem was a legit 7 footer with a great scoring touch and shot blocking ability.

 

[matuski]

Stay tuned as Junior ranks Jordan against the other great guards of all time -- John Hannah, Gene Upshaw, and Larry Allen. 

 

[JuniorNB]

You can make the argument, but those 3 centers controlled the game on both ends of the floor.  

Personally, I don't consider Russell in that tier, but Wilt and Kareem absolutely belong in the 2-4 range.  They were better scorers and rebounders than LeBron, Oscar and Magic.  They were easily better defenders than Oscar or Magic and on par or better than LeBron.  Those two were such physical freaks that they would have likely been able to hang with today's players, especially if given the sports science and nutrition we have today.  Wilt was like a leaner and quicker version of Shaq and Kareem was a legit 7 footer with a great scoring touch and shot blocking ability.

I have both Wilt and Kareem in my top 7.

 

[matuski]

I have both Wilt and Kareem in my top 7.

Top 7 wing players?  Set shooters?

 

[Tom Servo]

Top 7 wing players?  Set shooters?

Basketball player who were actors.

 

[JuniorNB]

Top 7 wing players?  Set shooters?

After you're done beating up Manny Pacquio, I'd love to see your top ten all-time list.

Mine is:

1. Jordan

2. Lebron

3. Magic

4. Robertson

5. Bird

6. Kareem

7. Wilt

8. Kobe

9. Russell

10. Shaq

 

[matuski]

Basketball player who were actors.

Timmy kills it.

 

[coyote5]

So who's the next #1 target of the Hot Take industry now that LeBron is pretty much beyond reproach?  Cam Newton seems like the obvious choice.  Anyone else in the running?

After this last championship, not many are weighing Lebron vs. Duncan differently. Not sure there's one basketball expert who would even have them close. Duncan is a nice player. Stayed consistent for many years. Great teammate. Not even in he same conversation as guys like Jordan and Lebron

Found it!

 

[matuski]

After you're done beating up Manny Pacquio, I'd love to see your top ten all-time list.

The last resort for losing positions in all threads.

You didn't know Tim Duncan is a PF.  You can't come back from this.

My top 10 list is way better than yours.

 

[JuniorNB]

The last resort for losing positions in all threads.

You didn't know Tim Duncan is a PF.  You can't come back from this.

My top 10 list is way better than yours.

Still waiting to see it, mouth

 

[matuski]

Still waiting to see it, mouth

Mine is better.  It is settled.

 

[JuniorNB]

Mine is better.  You already know this.

Yup. That's what I thought. You got nothing.

 

[Jayrod]

After you're done beating up Manny Pacquio, I'd love to see your top ten all-time list.

Mine is:

1. Jordan

2. Lebron

3. Magic

4. Robertson

5. Bird

6. Kareem

7. Wilt

8. Kobe

9. Russell

10. Shaq

Kareem won 6 MVP's, 6 rings and dominated the NBA statistically for the entire 1970's.  He would have won some DPOY awards if they had them.  Having him below Magic, Bird and especially Robertson is indefensible by any metric outside of assists.  He has a better VORP & Winshares/48 which include his later less productive years.  He compiled a lot of points, rebounds and blocks late in his career, but his peak was as good or better than any of those three as well.

 

[Gary Coal Man]

Basketball player who were actors.

Chuck Connors "The Rifleman".

 

[matuski]

Yup. That's what I thought. You got nothing.

I can't let my rankings out to guys like you to copy off of.

I noticed you didn't label any of your top 10's positions.. I sense some doubt in your effort there.

 

[JuniorNB]

I can't let my rankings out to guys like you to copy off of.

I noticed you didn't label any of your top 10's positions.. I sense some doubt in your effort there.

My top ten is position-irrelevant. I don't think you understand what "top ten all-time player" means. You should probably debate someone on your intelligence level. Sorry we couldn't communicate better.

 

[JuniorNB]

Kareem won 6 MVP's, 6 rings and dominated the NBA statistically for the entire 1970's.  He would have won some DPOY awards if they had them.  Having him below Magic, Bird and especially Robertson is indefensible by any metric outside of assists.  He has a better VORP & Winshares/48 which include his later less productive years.  He compiled a lot of points, rebounds and blocks late in his career, but his peak was as good or better than any of those three as well.

I have him at 6. That's pretty damn good. I think we just put different weight on versatility and all-around skillset. I have Kareem as my number 1 big man, if that makes you feel better.

 

[Spartans Rule]

You didn't know Tim Duncan is a PF.  You can't come back from this.

It's silly to label Duncan as either a PF or C to the exclusion of the other. He played plenty of both during his career, and he was certainly capable of fulfilling the functions of either role (which weren't necessarily all that different prior to the rise of the stretch 4).

 

[matuski]

I used to really enjoy hooking people here.  Used to require some effort.  Now it is too easy, people jump in the boat and can't swim away when released.

 Takes the fun out of it. 

 

[JuniorNB]

It's silly to label Duncan as either a PF or C to the exclusion of the other. He played plenty of both during his career, and he was certainly capable of fulfilling the functions of either role (which weren't necessarily all that different prior to the rise of the stretch 4).

That's why I didn't even argue about it. The way the league is these days, you can be a forward one quarter and a center the next. Some guys (like Dremond Green) can play the 3, 4, and 5 in the same quarter.  But I didn't have the energy or desire to explain the game to Matuski.

 

[JuniorNB]

I used to really enjoy hooking people here.  Used to require some effort.  Now it is too easy, people jump in the boat and can't swim away when released.

 Takes the fun out of it. 

Ahhh, after getting your ### handed to you, you pull the ole' I was fishing routine. That's adorable. At least you admitted that you were out of your league, Rocky. Now get back to training for the big Pacman fight.

 

[matuski]

Ahhh, after getting your ### handed to you, you pull the ole' I was fishing routine. That's adorable. At least you admitted that you were out of your league, Rocky. Now get back to training for the big Pacman fight.

can't swim away when released