Leftwich on the open market (1 Viewer)

[MLBrandow]

I just want to go on record as saying I believe Leftwich is a much better quarterback than Garrard, but that I think both are starter-caliber for the NFL.

Supposing Leftwich loses his job, where do you think he ends up next year?

Do you see a trade scenario with a team, or will they release him outright?

For some reason, I could see him in a Bills uniform next year.

 

[fruity pebbles]

Oakland will trade for him.

 

[omally]

I just want to go on record as saying I believe Leftwich is a much better quarterback than Garrard, but that I think both are starter-caliber for the NFL.Supposing Leftwich loses his job, where do you think he ends up next year?Do you see a trade scenario with a team, or will they release him outright?For some reason, I could see him in a Bills uniform next year.

I think Garrard is the better quarterback, but Del Rio made it clear yesterday that Leftwich is their starting quarterback once he is healthy.

 

[MLBrandow]

I think Garrard is the better quarterback, but Del Rio made it clear yesterday that Leftwich is their starting quarterback once he is healthy.

See, this is what i thought, but reading a blurb by Chris Mortenson earlier today led me to believe otherwise.

 

[kaso]

I would hope Oakland.

 

[Marc Levin]

I see no reason for JAX to cut or trade either player unless they are offered somethin gthey siomply can't turn down. Both QBs have cap friendly contracts for the next year and a team needs two good QBs. Garrard is actually more expensive.

Leftwich:

2006 3960000.00

2007 545000.00

2008 890500.00

2009 1235996.00

Garrard:

2006 1000000.00

2007 1000000.00

2008 1250000.00

 

[fruity pebbles]

I see no reason for JAX to cut or trade either player unless they are offered somethin gthey siomply can't turn down. Both QBs have cap friendly contracts for the next year and a team needs two good QBs. Garrard is actually more expensive.Leftwich:2006 3960000.00 2007 545000.00 2008 890500.00 2009 1235996.00 Garrard:2006 1000000.00 2007 1000000.00 2008 1250000.00

2007 is the last year of Leftwich's contract though. If they really want to go with Garrard, it makes sense to try and get something for Lefty before he becomes a free agent.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

Tampa Bay is going to need a QB next year.

Buffalo & Oakland were already mentioned.

Do the Redskins really want to hand over their high-priced talent to Jason Campbell?

Will the Browns be satisfied with Frye as their franchise QB?

Is Tavaris Jackson ready to take over if Brad Johnson goes in the tank?

I hope the Jags do trade Leftwich. They haven't utilized his full potential, and if they really believe Garrard is a better QB, then they don't deserve Leftwich. I'd be excited to see him producing in a different offense.

 

[kevthegrad]

People are going to think I'm being a jerk, but I have to share that I have NEVER had confidence in Leftwich.

I have never seen a player look to the sidelines with such a look of confusion on his face in 15 years (admittely not much) of NFL watching. He looks entirely out of his league and confused most of the time when looking to the sidelines, and while I know he's tough as nails, I simply don't have confidence in this kid to run an offence and command respect from a group of individuals. If he's Elvis Grbac I'll be amazed.

I say if I'm a Jags fan...go with Gerrard and look to the future.

 

[fruity pebbles]

Garrard is a better fit for that offense. Leftwich could be a very good QB in the right system but in Jacksonville he's a square peg trying to fit into a round hole.

 

[Marc Levin]

I see no reason for JAX to cut or trade either player unless they are offered somethin gthey siomply can't turn down. Both QBs have cap friendly contracts for the next year and a team needs two good QBs. Garrard is actually more expensive.Leftwich:2006 3960000.00 2007 545000.00 2008 890500.00 2009 1235996.00 Garrard:2006 1000000.00 2007 1000000.00 2008 1250000.00

2007 is the last year of Leftwich's contract though. If they really want to go with Garrard, it makes sense to try and get something for Lefty before he becomes a free agent.

What do you mean?Are you saying that the numbers I grabbed are salary cap numbers?I took this from the NFLPA site, which lists the players compensation (I assume that means the player is under contract for the length of his compensation).There may be an option that must be picked up, but that info was not there.

 

[fruity pebbles]

I see no reason for JAX to cut or trade either player unless they are offered somethin gthey siomply can't turn down. Both QBs have cap friendly contracts for the next year and a team needs two good QBs. Garrard is actually more expensive.Leftwich:2006 3960000.00 2007 545000.00 2008 890500.00 2009 1235996.00 Garrard:2006 1000000.00 2007 1000000.00 2008 1250000.00

2007 is the last year of Leftwich's contract though. If they really want to go with Garrard, it makes sense to try and get something for Lefty before he becomes a free agent.

What do you mean?Are you saying that the numbers I grabbed are salary cap numbers?I took this from the NFLPA site, which lists the players compensation (I assume that means the player is under contract for the length of his compensation).There may be an option that must be picked up, but that info was not there.

The last two years were just put into the contract to reduce the cap numbers throughout. They are to be voided by him meeting certain incentives that he's already met.

 

[kevthegrad]

He looks like Fat Albert!!! Isn;t that reason enough to start Gerrard!

 

[Marc Levin]

Garrard is a better fit for that offense. Leftwich could be a very good QB in the right system but in Jacksonville he's a square peg trying to fit into a round hole.

Not so sure about that.I did indepth research on the Jags' offense for my team report, player pages, and face-off on Leftwich and the receivers - here's what I said:

Combine a gun for an arm, poise in the pocket, a better-than-their-numbers offensive line, four receivers (including rookie TE Mercedes Lewis) who are all over 6'4" tall, a productive running game, and a "make or break" year, and it is easy to have high hopes for a quarterback talented enough to have warranted a seventh overall draft pick in 2003. All the signs are there for Leftwich to have a breakout season - he was on pace for such a season in 2005 before he was injured. The only thing preventing Leftwich, and the entire Jacksonville offense, from having a truly outstanding season is the offensive scheme. HC Jack Del Rio is notoriously conservative and run happy (despite a 3.9 per rush average, the team was 8th in rush attempts in 2005).

However, second year OC Carl Smith is poised to deliver on his 2005 promise to open up the Jags' pass attack. The team's 2005 yards per attempt was the highest since 2000. Leftwich looked comfortable and made few mistakes - he had only one game with more INTs than TDs in 2005. He was also incredibly effective in comeback efforts and in attacking the opponent's goal (check out his stellar QB rating when behind and when on the opponent's side of the field.

There are no negatives in Leftwich’s ability or in the talent surrounding him. The negative for every offensive player in Jacksonville is the scheme. In 2005, the Jaguars were 14th in the league in yards per attempt and 20th in pass attempts, but were 8th in rush attempts, despite a meager 3.9 yards per rush average. Those numbers are in line with the team’s pass/rush ratio since HC Jack Del Rio took over in 2003. Even discounting the games he missed in 2005, Leftwich was only the 16th best fantasy QB in terms of points per game.

The Jaguars are building their offense into a formidable unit so, if Del Rio takes the shackles off, Leftwich is surrounded by enough talent to become a solid fantasy starting QB. Since the conservative scheme produced 12 wins and a playoff spot in 2005, however, more of the same is expected.

IMO, the offensive scheme's been built around Leftwich's strengths. If the system is built around his strengths, how could he be the wrong QB for the system?

Garrard has somethin gthat Leftwich does not - mobility. When Garrard starts moving around and bootlegging, he can extend plays. Leftwich is a pocket passer with a gun.

It seems obvious to me that the problem is the OL not giving Leftwich enough time. A mobile QB like Garrard can avoid sacks, extend plays, and allow the receivers time to get into their routes. Considering how young the receivers are, and considering the OC is in his second year of trying to pry more deep shots out of Del Rio, I think claiming Leftwich doesn't fit the system is premature - he ran that same system very well before he was injurdd last year.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

I have never seen a player look to the sidelines with such a look of confusion on his face in 15 years (admittely not much) of NFL watching. He looks entirely out of his league and confused most of the time when looking to the sidelines, and while I know he's tough as nails, I simply don't have confidence in this kid to run an offence and command respect from a group of individuals. If he's Elvis Grbac I'll be amazed.

I watch the Jags almost every week because I get them locally, and I can honestly say I have no idea what you're talking about here. Confused? Looks to the sideline? Command respect from a group of individuals? Are we talking about the guy who was carried down the field by O-linemen at Marshall? The same QB who, upon coming into the league, was called by GMs who interviewed him one of the brightest QBs they've ever seen and a natural born leader?

 

[Marc Levin]

I see no reason for JAX to cut or trade either player unless they are offered somethin gthey siomply can't turn down. Both QBs have cap friendly contracts for the next year and a team needs two good QBs. Garrard is actually more expensive.

Leftwich:

2006 3960000.00

2007 545000.00

2008 890500.00

2009 1235996.00

Garrard:

2006 1000000.00

2007 1000000.00

2008 1250000.00

2007 is the last year of Leftwich's contract though. If they really want to go with Garrard, it makes sense to try and get something for Lefty before he becomes a free agent.

What do you mean?Are you saying that the numbers I grabbed are salary cap numbers?

I took this from the NFLPA site, which lists the players compensation (I assume that means the player is under contract for the length of his compensation).

There may be an option that must be picked up, but that info was not there.

The last two years were just put into the contract to reduce the cap numbers throughout. They are to be voided by him meeting certain incentives that he's already met.

Are you saying Leftwich has the option?If they "are to be voided" by him meeting incentives he already met, then they are already void and he's a FA after this year. Can't imagine why they'd write incentives into the contract to trigger the TEAM'S option. Incentives are written into contracts for the player's benefit.

 

[Marc Levin]

I have never seen a player look to the sidelines with such a look of confusion on his face in 15 years (admittely not much) of NFL watching. He looks entirely out of his league and confused most of the time when looking to the sidelines, and while I know he's tough as nails, I simply don't have confidence in this kid to run an offence and command respect from a group of individuals. If he's Elvis Grbac I'll be amazed.

I watch the Jags almost every week because I get them locally, and I can honestly say I have no idea what you're talking about here. Confused? Looks to the sideline? Command respect from a group of individuals? Are we talking about the guy who was carried down the field by O-linemen at Marshall? The same QB who, upon coming into the league, was called by GMs who interviewed him one of the brightest QBs they've ever seen and a natural born leader?

I haven't sen what he was talking about either and I have watched a good amunt of the Jags' O b/c I own M J-D and I still have high hopes for the Jags this year. Not a fan, but I like the way they play ball.

 

[fruity pebbles]

I see no reason for JAX to cut or trade either player unless they are offered somethin gthey siomply can't turn down. Both QBs have cap friendly contracts for the next year and a team needs two good QBs. Garrard is actually more expensive.

Leftwich:

2006 3960000.00

2007 545000.00

2008 890500.00

2009 1235996.00

Garrard:

2006 1000000.00

2007 1000000.00

2008 1250000.00

2007 is the last year of Leftwich's contract though. If they really want to go with Garrard, it makes sense to try and get something for Lefty before he becomes a free agent.

What do you mean?Are you saying that the numbers I grabbed are salary cap numbers?

I took this from the NFLPA site, which lists the players compensation (I assume that means the player is under contract for the length of his compensation).

There may be an option that must be picked up, but that info was not there.

The last two years were just put into the contract to reduce the cap numbers throughout. They are to be voided by him meeting certain incentives that he's already met.

Are you saying Leftwich has the option?If they "are to be voided" by him meeting incentives he already met, then they are already void and he's a FA after this year. Can't imagine why they'd write incentives into the contract to trigger the TEAM'S option. Incentives are written into contracts for the player's benefit.

They aren't voided by the team or him. They were easily met incentives that automatically voided the last two years. It was essentially a 5 year deal, not a 7 year deal. They just made it 7 years so they could make it more cap friendly and push the bonus over 7 years instead of 5. He's a free agent after 2007.

 

[Marc Levin]

If they "are to be voided" by him meeting incentives he already met, then they are already void and he's a FA after this year. Can't imagine why they'd write incentives into the contract to trigger the TEAM'S option. Incentives are written into contracts for the player's benefit.

They aren't voided by the team or him. They were easily met incentives that automatically voided the last two years. It was essentially a 5 year deal, not a 7 year deal. They just made it 7 years so they could make it more cap friendly and push the bonus over 7 years instead of 5. He's a free agent after 2007.

That's what I said.

 

[Stompin' Tom Connors]

Just waded in to give you props on the new avatar, Levin.

 

[MLBrandow]

Tampa Bay is going to need a QB next year.Buffalo & Oakland were already mentioned.Do the Redskins really want to hand over their high-priced talent to Jason Campbell?Will the Browns be satisfied with Frye as their franchise QB?Is Tavaris Jackson ready to take over if Brad Johnson goes in the tank?I hope the Jags do trade Leftwich. They haven't utilized his full potential, and if they really believe Garrard is a better QB, then they don't deserve Leftwich. I'd be excited to see him producing in a different offense.

Tampa will re-sign Simms for peanuts.Pretty sure the Browns will stick with Frye.I'd say Oakland, but I'm pretty sure they'll stick with Walter for at least one more season.Buffalo really is the only standout name to me, unless the Dolphins go for him .Or how about the Cowboys? If Romo doesn't pan out, I can see him going in there and really getting that Parcells (well not Parcells, since he'll retire after this year) offense going.

 

[Marc Levin]

Just waded in to give you props on the new avatar, Levin.

Tx - it was really hard for me to hold the camera up at that angle. Got my good side, too.

 

[fruity pebbles]

If they "are to be voided" by him meeting incentives he already met, then they are already void and he's a FA after this year. Can't imagine why they'd write incentives into the contract to trigger the TEAM'S option. Incentives are written into contracts for the player's benefit.

They aren't voided by the team or him. They were easily met incentives that automatically voided the last two years. It was essentially a 5 year deal, not a 7 year deal. They just made it 7 years so they could make it more cap friendly and push the bonus over 7 years instead of 5. He's a free agent after 2007.

That's what I said.

If you already knew, what are you asking me for?

 

[Marc Levin]

i asked you whether it was his option - from what you said initially, it was unclear to me what you meant.

thanks for the details, though - the fact that his cap number probably stays with the Jags is an incentive for other teams if the Jags decide to trade him in this upcoming offseason, but I don't see them doing that.

With Leftwich a FA after '07 and Garrard signed for next to nothing in terms of starting QB money through '08, then the team has no incentive to get rid of either player this upcoming offseason.

They will do as the Chargers did with Brees/Rivers. If they want to keep Leftwich, they will get an extension signed during this upcoming offseason. And if they do not, then they will let him play out '07 and test the FA market.

There are probably some kind of cap savings if they straight up cut him - and I recall there was some signing bonus cap transfer thing when Ricky Williams was traded to Miami, so the cap sitch needs an accountant and someone who knows the rules real well. That aine me.

 

[Hairy Snowman]

Not to change the subject from the cap figures..

Is it me, or does anyone else feel that Leftowich's delivery is awkward and slow?

It seems to me he winds up like a pitcher throwing a baseball to home plate. IMO the extra motion causes him to telegraph his passes, which he overcomes by throwing fastballs. I can't say I have ever seen him throw a ball with touch.

To me, although the last game really didn't call for Garrard to pass the ball, I believe Garrard has better mechanics and a better "feel" for leading receivers to open spots. And he has better mobility.

But Leftowich has tremendous heart - a leader that has the respect of everyone on that team. Some things don't show up on paper - Byron has alot of intangables.

FWIW I think Del Rio is doing the right thing in his approach to the QB position. And if the Jags don't lose, don't expect to see Leftowich play. People have said they have heard Del Rio endorse Leftowich as his starter if healthy.

I haven't - only that Leftowich wouldn't start this week. If the team keeps winning, Garrard could take conceivably take this job. It's not like Leftowich is known for leading the Jags back from large deficits....

 

[Fear & Loathing]

Tampa Bay is going to need a QB next year.Buffalo & Oakland were already mentioned.Do the Redskins really want to hand over their high-priced talent to Jason Campbell?Will the Browns be satisfied with Frye as their franchise QB?Is Tavaris Jackson ready to take over if Brad Johnson goes in the tank?I hope the Jags do trade Leftwich. They haven't utilized his full potential, and if they really believe Garrard is a better QB, then they don't deserve Leftwich. I'd be excited to see him producing in a different offense.

Tampa will re-sign Simms for peanuts.Pretty sure the Browns will stick with Frye.I'd say Oakland, but I'm pretty sure they'll stick with Walter for at least one more season.Buffalo really is the only standout name to me, unless the Dolphins go for him .Or how about the Cowboys? If Romo doesn't pan out, I can see him going in there and really getting that Parcells (well not Parcells, since he'll retire after this year) offense going.

So Romo might not pan out for the Cowboys? I can buy that. It's possible. But then to say in the same post that Tampa will re-sign Simms for peanuts and go to war to start another season banking on him as their starting QB? Come on.What would make Gruden possibly want to put all of his eggs in Simms' basket again? Did you miss the Bucs games when Simms was quarterbacking this season? He played 3 games, threw 1 TD and 7 interceptions. His awful start basically canned the season for the Bucs. I think it's possible the Bucs will bring back Simms for peanuts. But it won't be as the starting QB...not if they're interested in scoring points and winning football games.The Bucs are as desperate for a starting QB as any team in the NFL...except possibly the Raiders.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

Not to change the subject from the cap figures..Is it me, or does anyone else feel that Leftowich's delivery is awkward and slow? It seems to me he winds up like a pitcher throwing a baseball to home plate. IMO the extra motion causes him to telegraph his passes, which he overcomes by throwing fastballs. I can't say I have ever seen him throw a ball with touch. To me, although the last game really didn't call for Garrard to pass the ball, I believe Garrard has better mechanics and a better "feel" for leading receivers to open spots. And he has better mobility.But Leftowich has tremendous heart - a leader that has the respect of everyone on that team. Some things don't show up on paper - Byron has alot of intangables.FWIW I think Del Rio is doing the right thing in his approach to the QB position. And if the Jags don't lose, don't expect to see Leftowich play. People have said they have heard Del Rio endorse Leftowich as his starter if healthy. I haven't - only that Leftowich wouldn't start this week. If the team keeps winning, Garrard could take conceivably take this job. It's not like Leftowich is known for leading the Jags back from large deficits....

You're right that Leftwich has a long delivery. But you're wrong about the touch. He can make that touch pass whenever he needs to. You could argue that he doesn't try it enough, but when he does try it, the touch is there.Now, Garrard. There's a QB without much touch.

 

[Hairy Snowman]

Not to change the subject from the cap figures..Is it me, or does anyone else feel that Leftowich's delivery is awkward and slow? It seems to me he winds up like a pitcher throwing a baseball to home plate. IMO the extra motion causes him to telegraph his passes, which he overcomes by throwing fastballs. I can't say I have ever seen him throw a ball with touch. To me, although the last game really didn't call for Garrard to pass the ball, I believe Garrard has better mechanics and a better "feel" for leading receivers to open spots. And he has better mobility.But Leftowich has tremendous heart - a leader that has the respect of everyone on that team. Some things don't show up on paper - Byron has alot of intangables.FWIW I think Del Rio is doing the right thing in his approach to the QB position. And if the Jags don't lose, don't expect to see Leftowich play. People have said they have heard Del Rio endorse Leftowich as his starter if healthy. I haven't - only that Leftowich wouldn't start this week. If the team keeps winning, Garrard could take conceivably take this job. It's not like Leftowich is known for leading the Jags back from large deficits....

You're right that Leftwich has a long delivery. But you're wrong about the touch. He can make that touch pass whenever he needs to. You could argue that he doesn't try it enough, but when he does try it, the touch is there.Now, Garrard. There's a QB without much touch.

Huh? I'll keep an open mind until I see this weekends game, but I've been a fan of Garrards for a while. I missed last weeks game (I'm in Chicago right now), so I'll see if anything has changed. His rating was pretty good last week, no?

 

[Marc Levin]

Not to change the subject from the cap figures..Is it me, or does anyone else feel that Leftowich's delivery is awkward and slow? It seems to me he winds up like a pitcher throwing a baseball to home plate. IMO the extra motion causes him to telegraph his passes, which he overcomes by throwing fastballs. I can't say I have ever seen him throw a ball with touch. To me, although the last game really didn't call for Garrard to pass the ball, I believe Garrard has better mechanics and a better "feel" for leading receivers to open spots. And he has better mobility.But Leftwich has tremendous heart - a leader that has the respect of everyone on that team. Some things don't show up on paper - Byron has alot of intangables.FWIW I think Del Rio is doing the right thing in his approach to the QB position. And if the Jags don't lose, don't expect to see Leftowich play. People have said they have heard Del Rio endorse Leftowich as his starter if healthy. I haven't - only that Leftowich wouldn't start this week. If the team keeps winning, Garrard could take conceivably take this job. It's not like Leftowich is known for leading the Jags back from large deficits....

You're right that Leftwich has a long delivery. But you're wrong about the touch. He can make that touch pass whenever he needs to. You could argue that he doesn't try it enough, but when he does try it, the touch is there.Now, Garrard. There's a QB without much touch.

And Leftwich has a cannon - he can throw much further downfield, and with better accuracy, than Garrard.

 

[Bob_Magaw]

leftwich does wind up at times & have elongated delivery, but not always...

on the bang-bang play of about 20 yards to reggie williams for TD i think against WAS (? i think it was sun or mon night game... williams got hit at end by sean taylor) where he had to thread it between two defenders at close range the ball was out of his hand in a fraction of a second, so he can unload it in a hurry when needed...

if the QB situation was really clear than it ought to be clear to leftwich of all people, and it doesn't seem to be because lefty says he is healthy enough to go yet garrard is starting...

i'm in group that thinks garrard is good but leftwich is better, & if JAX doesn't appreciate him i would enjoy see him succeed elsewhere... del rio is run first guy, & it would be fun to see what lefty could do in a downfield attack (like say what palmer enjoys in CIN)...

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

Here's a story on the happenings at One Alltel Place.

Jax Times-Union

 

[simey]

And Leftwich has a cannon - he can throw much further downfield, and with better accuracy, than Garrard.

I disagree with that. I went to ECU, and although I graduated before Garrard was the quarterback there (I graduated during Jeff Blakes 3rd year), I saw a lot of games during Garrards years as QB. Garrard is extremely strong, and he can throw the football the whole length of the field. He was also accurate during college. He broke every quarterback record that was previously held by Jeff Blake and Marcus Crandell. Hopefully today he will get the opportunity to throw more. He has always been very mobile too, making him a double threat.

 

[Nemesis]

Is it me, or does anyone else feel that Leftowich's delivery is awkward and slow? It seems to me he winds up like a pitcher throwing a baseball to home plate. IMO the extra motion causes him to telegraph his passes, which he overcomes by throwing fastballs. I can't say I have ever seen him throw a ball with touch. To me, although the last game really didn't call for Garrard to pass the ball, I believe Garrard has better mechanics and a better "feel" for leading receivers to open spots. And he has better mobility.But Leftowich has tremendous heart - a leader that has the respect of everyone on that team. Some things don't show up on paper - Byron has alot of intangables.FWIW I think Del Rio is doing the right thing in his approach to the QB position. And if the Jags don't lose, don't expect to see Leftowich play. People have said they have heard Del Rio endorse Leftowich as his starter if healthy. I haven't - only that Leftowich wouldn't start this week. If the team keeps winning, Garrard could take conceivably take this job. It's not like Leftowich is known for leading the Jags back from large deficits....

I'm also not a fan of Leftwich's big windup.........i've seen too many times that:the pass rusher can knock the ball from his hands when he winds up leaving the ball exposed longerthe pass rusher can more easily see when he is going to throw and try to bat the pass down at the LOSthe defenders can more easily see who he is targeting and adjust their coveragesAlbeit, he's got a stronger arm to compensate but the windup does add at least another 1/2 second to his delivery.Question: If everyone sees this as a problem, WHY hasn't either Leftwich or the coaching staff tried to change this?(could it be that the coaches have TRIED to change him and Leftwich refuses?)

 

[Marc Levin]

And Leftwich has a cannon - he can throw much further downfield, and with better accuracy, than Garrard.

I disagree with that. I went to ECU, and although I graduated before Garrard was the quarterback there (I graduated during Jeff Blakes 3rd year), I saw a lot of games during Garrards years as QB. Garrard is extremely strong, and he can throw the football the whole length of the field. He was also accurate during college. He broke every quarterback record that was previously held by Jeff Blake and Marcus Crandell. Hopefully today he will get the opportunity to throw more. He has always been very mobile too, making him a double threat.

Disagree all you want, but Leftwich was a stud in college, he has a great deep ball, a cannon for an arm, and Garrard has almost no downfield passes since he's been in the league.I knew someone woudl think I was saying Garrard had a weak arm - and I did not say that. You did not comment on Leftwich's arm, you commented on Garrard's - Leftwich has a stronger arm than Garrard - quite simply, he throws farther and he throws the deep pass with more accuracy than Garrard.It's like me saying that Vick has a better deep ball than Kerry Collins - Collins has a very strong arm, but Vick's blows him away.

 

[simey]

And Leftwich has a cannon - he can throw much further downfield, and with better accuracy, than Garrard.

I disagree with that. I went to ECU, and although I graduated before Garrard was the quarterback there (I graduated during Jeff Blakes 3rd year), I saw a lot of games during Garrards years as QB. Garrard is extremely strong, and he can throw the football the whole length of the field. He was also accurate during college. He broke every quarterback record that was previously held by Jeff Blake and Marcus Crandell. Hopefully today he will get the opportunity to throw more. He has always been very mobile too, making him a double threat.

Disagree all you want, but Leftwich was a stud in college, he has a great deep ball, a cannon for an arm, and Garrard has almost no downfield passes since he's been in the league.I knew someone woudl think I was saying Garrard had a weak arm - and I did not say that. You did not comment on Leftwich's arm, you commented on Garrard's - Leftwich has a stronger arm than Garrard - quite simply, he throws farther and he throws the deep pass with more accuracy than Garrard.It's like me saying that Vick has a better deep ball than Kerry Collins - Collins has a very strong arm, but Vick's blows him away.

I will disagree all I want, and I never implied nor said you said Garrard has a weak arm. Garrard was a stud in college too, and he has a beautiful deep ball with accuracy. I don't need little scenerios from you to understand what you are talking about. I disagree with you, it's that simple.

 

[Marc Levin]

Well, that's fine simey, but I have no idea what you are disagreeing with - that Leftwich has a better deep ball? If so, you have absolutely no numbers to support your belief.

In his college career, Leftwich had 11G yards passing and an 8.5 YPA. Leftwich also completed 65.1% of his passes.

Garrard's had 4500 yards passing and 7.6 YPA at a 54% completion ratio.

Leftwich has not thrown many deep passes this year, and neither has Garrard, but, last year, when both received a lot of playing time, Leftwich was 17 for 53 in passes over 20 yards (32% complete) and Garrard was 3 for 20 (15%)

Like I said, I never said Garrard's arm was weak or that he didn't have good accuracy - I just stated the indisputable truth - Leftwich's arm is stronger and more accurate.

 

[simey]

Well, that's fine simey, but I have no idea what you are disagreeing with - that Leftwich has a better deep ball? If so, you have absolutely no numbers to support your belief.

You know something Marc, you lack tact when people disagree with you. As a matter fact, you can be downright pompous. I don't need to dish out numbers or stats, I've seen Garrard play a lot with my own eyes. I'll leave it at that.

 

[Marc Levin]

Well, that's fine simey, but I have no idea what you are disagreeing with - that Leftwich has a better deep ball? If so, you have absolutely no numbers to support your belief.

You know something Marc, you lack tact when people disagree with you. As a matter fact, you can be downright pompous. I don't need to dish out numbers or stats, I've seen Garrard play a lot with my own eyes. I'll leave it at that.

Well, I apologiize for having offended you in some way.I backed up my assertions with fact - is that what you have a problem with?I did not say Garrard has an innaccurate or weak arm. Leftwich's deep ball is simply better.Not sure what you are basing your disagreement on - the numbers do not bear out an assertion that Garrard's arm is better than Leftwich's.You are entitled to your opinion, but you are the one who disagreed with me - I showed you the numbers - I am not sure how that is being pompous or arrogant.Do you have any numbers to support a belief that Garrad hgas a better deep ball than Leftwich? If not, then I didn't say anything arrogant or pompous - I stated a fact.

 

[Nemesis]

Marc: For the record, I didn't see where you insulted him or "lacked tact" in any way. I think he's just "mentally attached" to Gerrard and it's an argument that isn't going to be solved.

 

[Hairy Snowman]

I would agree that Leftowich probably can throw deeper (more accurately may be a topic for debate as IMO we haven't seen enough of Garrard throwing deep to make any relative comparisons and Leftowich is not known as a "deep ball threat"). But with Leftowich's windup ~ he uses more hip in his throw ~ he should be able to throw deeper.

But throwing deep isn't what it is cracked up to be. Throwing deep isn't what made Joe Montana a great QB. It was throwing accurately. Marino had the great release and arm, but the deep strength isn't what made him great either ~ it was his accuracy. Go down the list and I think you will find a common thread.

I have never found Leftowich to be particuliarly accurate, except when he is drilling the ball at 100 mph between a players numbers. I haven't seen many throws from Leftowich to WRs over the outside shoulder or screen passes that lead a RB in stride or even a post pattern where he hits an open man in stride (leading him downfield). He either lacks anticipation or lacks the "throws".

To me the Jury is out on Garrard, but I know what I think of Leftowich as a passer as of today. I think he has plateaued the past 2 years. Still like him, but the eyes don't lie....

 

[simey]

Marc: For the record, I didn't see where you insulted him or "lacked tact" in any way. I think he's just "mentally attached" to Gerrard and it's an argument that isn't going to be solved.

For the record, I'm a she.

 

[Hairy Snowman]

Marc: For the record, I didn't see where you insulted him or "lacked tact" in any way. I think he's just "mentally attached" to Gerrard and it's an argument that isn't going to be solved.

For the record, I'm a she.

You rock! Love women that know football!

 

[Marc Levin]

Marino had the great release and arm, but the deep strength isn't what made him great either ~ it was his accuracy. as of today. I think he has plateaued the past 2 years. Still like him, but the eyes don't lie....

But, he could throw darts further downfield than anyone else.He was not winging it 60 yards downfield on an arc, but I watched that man throw amazing 40 yard passes into double coverage and on a string where only his receiver could catch it.

 

[Marc Levin]

To me the Jury is out on Garrard, but I know what I think of Leftowich as a passer as of today. I think he has plateaued the past 2 years. Still like him, but the eyes don't lie....

I am still undecided - Leftwich looked like he was on the verge of being a top-12 fantasy QB, and he was playing like a very good NFL QB, until he was injured.15 TDs versus 5 INTs, 58% completion ratio, and over 7 YPA (which is a high YPA compared to Jax previous years under Del Rio)

 

[Nemesis]

Marc: For the record, I didn't see where you insulted him or "lacked tact" in any way. I think he's just "mentally attached" to Gerrard and it's an argument that isn't going to be solved.

For the record, I'm a she.

I apologize for insulting you.... (note: I'm not making fun of you.....just having fun with the situation)

 

[Hairy Snowman]

Marino had the great release and arm, but the deep strength isn't what made him great either ~ it was his accuracy. as of today. I think he has plateaued the past 2 years. Still like him, but the eyes don't lie....

But, he could throw darts further downfield than anyone else.He was not winging it 60 yards downfield on an arc, but I watched that man throw amazing 40 yard passes into double coverage and on a string where only his receiver could catch it.

Yeah, Marino was special. I miss watching him play.I was at the Bears game in '85 and I still hate the guy for ruining the undefeated season. He could put the ball in places that you would swear no one could throw to. But Marino aside, arm strength is generally overrated. All things the same, I'll take an accurate passer over a deep thrower any day. I'll go so far as to make a prediction right now ~ If Garrard wins today he will start again next week. In fact, I'll go so far as to say he won't see the bench again until he loses, regardless of how Lord Byron feels.Im not saying, I'm just saying.............

 

[jerry jones]

Well, that's fine simey, but I have no idea what you are disagreeing with - that Leftwich has a better deep ball? If so, you have absolutely no numbers to support your belief.

You know something Marc, you lack tact when people disagree with you. As a matter fact, you can be downright pompous. I don't need to dish out numbers or stats, I've seen Garrard play a lot with my own eyes. I'll leave it at that.

i know, i know, i am not adding anything constructive...but still

 

[Marc Levin]

I was at the Bears game in '85 and I still hate the guy for ruining the undefeated season.

And as a 'phin phan since the '72 season, I went from having a man-crush on him to falling head over heels in love with him on that day. He went from *a* favorite Dolphin player to *my all time favorite* Dolphin player.

 

[Hairy Snowman]

To me the Jury is out on Garrard, but I know what I think of Leftowich as a passer as of today. I think he has plateaued the past 2 years. Still like him, but the eyes don't lie....

I am still undecided - Leftwich looked like he was on the verge of being a top-12 fantasy QB, and he was playing like a very good NFL QB, until he was injured.15 TDs versus 5 INTs, 58% completion ratio, and over 7 YPA (which is a high YPA compared to Jax previous years under Del Rio)

I agree, but for whatever the reason (maybe the long delivery motion..........) he gets banged up back there and inevitably, every year, it seems to affect his performance. He makes me miss Brunnell. I also agree though that I thought he looked excellent to start the year. But then he reverted back to some of the same bad habits I saw from previous years. Just my take, but I would like to see him work on his mechanics.

 

[Marc Levin]

I also agree though that I thought he looked excellent to start the year. But then he reverted back to some of the same bad habits I saw from previous years. Just my take, but I would like to see him work on his mechanics.

He went three straight games before he was injured with 5 TDs to 0 INTs and a 61% completion percentage - from an NFL standpoint, he was playing better than at any point in his career when he was injured.