Old Curmudgeon
Footballguy
Wise up son. No one was asking anyone to believe just to avoid the rush to condemn just because there was not a source attached.
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Leftwich to be cut! (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter pmcdade
- Start date
JaxBill
Footballguy
One more thing, I think it's interesting that Vic brings up JDR's interest in Culpepper. It looks like JDR wanted C-Pep while Shack Harris nixed it. (JDR quickly reversed himself.) Now Leftwich, who Shack traded up to draft, is suddenly dumped to the curb. Personal specualtion, but I'm wondering if this means that Shack is on his way out while JDR is getting Wayne Weaver's ear.
wraith5
Footballguy
#### me. I'm sure the view is nice when you're looking in the rear-view mirror. When this "broke" it sounded completely outlandish - the OP obviously had some serious (and good) inside information, but at the time it looked like a blatant - and poor - fishing trip. Believe it or not there are guys who post BS topics on this board. I apologized to the OP because I thought it was the right thing to do. Don't particularly care if he cares, and certainly don't care if you do. Done.
prymetyme25
Footballguy
Anybody thinks Leftwich heads to KC?
gregjcross
Footballguy
Bad fit: a desperate coach and a medium talent Qb in Lefty. He wasnt gonig to get them to the AFC championship anyway, so they are smart to save the $5M, its a cruel blow to Lefty but that's life in the big league.
Wadsworth
Footballguy
That all depends on David's play. JDR made a bold move. I liken it to a poker player going all in with a big stack. If David plays well and the Jags do well, Del Rio is a genius. If David picks up where he left off last season Del Rio could be unemployed.
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
i wasn't assuming they pay $5 mill... he could come for less if JAX cuts him, a distinct possibility... prospective teams will be free to negotiate a new contract with him...
thecardiackid
Footballguy
I'd guess the guy who was (un)fortunate enough to get the Leftwich end of this trade was needing a QB. Now, not only did he not get a servicable QB, but he also gave up 2 high future picks for a (best case) possible back up who is hopefully joining a different team, and needs to learn a new system as the QB leading the offense. I think we'd all agree he's screwed. Using 'insider' information IS why we're here. I get that. However, taking this info and rushing out (@ 3 PM - before the friggin press conference) to dump Lefty on some unsuspecting owner who likely has a job and isn't scouring this site, etc. 24x7 for news like this is, less than ethical @ best. If that's what you need to do to get your team ahead in your league - that's pretty sad IMO. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but I'll bet every other owner in this "shark's" league will be less inclined to deal w/ him in the future if he's pulling crap like this. I actually emailed the Lefty owner in one league - a guy who I know doesn't follow the news - to suggest grabbing a backup off the WW. I'd like to think it's not the case, but maybe I am morally unrealistic here. And maybe part of it is I am friends with the other owners in the majority of my leagues - so I'd never try to job them like this.I do know that a large portion of this game we enjoy is luck, karma, etc. and in most cases what goes around, comes around.:endhijack/rant:This is precisely why you never accept a trade without checking your resources first, which would have been the counter-shark move by the other owner. Information here is to be used as a weapon against the competition, plain and simple; isn't that why everyone is here?!?I think most of them will secretly think it was a "shark" move. Nothing wrong with taking advantage of insider news you'll only hear on here. It wasn't a sure thing, but most of the time a pre-10k'er isn't going to risk getting IP banned to throw out a fake story that they know will be debunked.That's repugnant.Just want to give some love to PMCDADE. I ripped off someone in my league due to the headstart. Dumped Lefty for (2) future 2nds in my dynasty and the guy that i scammed emailed me quite the response once he found out the news.
I hope those 2nds are worth having everyone else in your league less than enthusiastic about dealing with you in the future.
For those of you thinking this is repugnant, how long is a person to wait after a news story has broken until it's okay to use the information at your disposal? 2 hours? 24 hours? I have a feeling that if he'd pulled of this trade on Sunday, you wouldn't have a problem with it at all because your reaction would be that the other guy should have done his homework.So when is it okay to use the information you have at your disposal???????
twitch
Footballguy
Wow, I actually cant believe the guy just got CUT. I cant say its shocking that he's not starting. But CUT? Wow.
As someone who was pretty much laughing anytime Id see predictions about the guy being underrated or undervalued or how someone would feel good having Leftwich as a starter, Im still kindof laughing. The weaknesses in his game just seemed so obvious....completely injury prone, very slow foot speed, long, drawn out delivery, dropping the ball down so hideously low in that delivery, neither quick nor agile nor mobile, very low touch-skill on his passes. Throwing a 100mph fastball on virtually every throw is not what Im looking for out of my QB. Im not getting into the guy's intelligence or leadership or any of the intangibles.....in this case, I dont think its even nessecary. Having acknowledged all these seemingly glaring flaws, Im still a little stunned he is being moved or let go. But at $5million, he'd be a rather costly Forrest Whitaker look-alike.
As someone who was pretty much laughing anytime Id see predictions about the guy being underrated or undervalued or how someone would feel good having Leftwich as a starter, Im still kindof laughing. The weaknesses in his game just seemed so obvious....completely injury prone, very slow foot speed, long, drawn out delivery, dropping the ball down so hideously low in that delivery, neither quick nor agile nor mobile, very low touch-skill on his passes. Throwing a 100mph fastball on virtually every throw is not what Im looking for out of my QB. Im not getting into the guy's intelligence or leadership or any of the intangibles.....in this case, I dont think its even nessecary. Having acknowledged all these seemingly glaring flaws, Im still a little stunned he is being moved or let go. But at $5million, he'd be a rather costly Forrest Whitaker look-alike.
Jason Wood
Zoo York
Leftwich will end up somewhere, for SURE. I can think of a ton of teams that will want to give him a shot. He, by all accounts, is a good human being and for his many flaws as a QB, he seems like a tough kid who is willing to play through injury. It just seemed like he and Del Rio never really hit it off.
As to the idea that Garrard is a better fit than Leftwich; that may be true, but it definitely remains to be seen. Garrard has been the much better player this preseason, no question. But for their careers, Garrard really hasn't gotten it done. He's been given a VERY conservative offensive game plan when under center, which led to his throwing fewer TDs AND fewer INTs per pass attempt.
Del Rio cited Garrard's mobility, his quick release and his ability to get the ball downfield...well, again, maybe he's improving but thus far in his career Garrard hasn't proven to be better than Lefty in those regards.
*** Garrard is sacked more often (7.6% of his attempts) vs. Lefty (5.7%)
*** Garrard doesn't get the ball downfield any better (7.4% of his attempts go for 20+) vs. Lefty (8.2%)
*** Garrard fumbles more (which you would expect b/c of his running)
Here are some thoughts I dropped into the blog last night:
http://blog.footballguys.com/2007/09/01/th...byron-leftwich/
As to the idea that Garrard is a better fit than Leftwich; that may be true, but it definitely remains to be seen. Garrard has been the much better player this preseason, no question. But for their careers, Garrard really hasn't gotten it done. He's been given a VERY conservative offensive game plan when under center, which led to his throwing fewer TDs AND fewer INTs per pass attempt.
Del Rio cited Garrard's mobility, his quick release and his ability to get the ball downfield...well, again, maybe he's improving but thus far in his career Garrard hasn't proven to be better than Lefty in those regards.
*** Garrard is sacked more often (7.6% of his attempts) vs. Lefty (5.7%)
*** Garrard doesn't get the ball downfield any better (7.4% of his attempts go for 20+) vs. Lefty (8.2%)
*** Garrard fumbles more (which you would expect b/c of his running)
Here are some thoughts I dropped into the blog last night:
http://blog.footballguys.com/2007/09/01/th...byron-leftwich/
Therein lies the rub.First, they were not two "high" future picks. They were two second round picks. The other guy's alarm should have sounded right there. Who gives up a starting QB for two second round picks? The first thing I do when offered a trade--even before I evaluate its substance--is send the other owner an e-mail saying the I need 24 hours to evaluate the trade. Then I check JB's daily e-mail if I already haven't done so. Then I come here to check the boards and the player news. If I jump on a trade before performing my due diligence, I have no one to blame but myself. No one was stopping the other guy from doing this as well.
Second, taking the info and using it prior to the official announcement is taking a chance too. And sometimes even the official announcement isn't the final word. Didn't everyone, including FBGs, report just a day or two ago that Kevin Jones would start the season on the PUP list? And those reports were substantiated by official sources. And today we're hearing that he won't be put on the PUP list?
Third, you didn't answer the question. How long do you have to wait to use the information you have for it to be "moral?"
Dude, don't worry about it. As far as you are concerned, it was ok for you to do it. Who cares what everyone else thinks. How about just owning up to it and saying "I did what I did, I knew what I did, and I don't have to apologize for it".I wouldn't have done it, but I'm sure you really don't care what anyone else thinks. It was within your morals, so be proud of your steal and move on.
I didn't do it.
thecardiackid
Footballguy
First, which would YOU rather have @ this point in a dynasty league? Your 2 seconds in 08'/09' or the recently dumped / relatively worthless Leftwich. Those picks are "high" to a guy trying to re-build a franchise - worst case for packaging in deals to move up. Q: Who gives up a starting QB (i.e. Leftwich) for two 2nds? A: they owner in a competitive dynasty league where Leftwich is his 3rd or 4th option. Or, someone who needs the roster slot for another position, etc.But this isn't the issue. I think we all agree this guy got screwed. And I'm glad you perform due dilligence prior to agreeing to a trade - most of us do. Again, not the core issue here - which IS the guy who OFFERED the deal (dumping) - admittedly knowing he was attempting to screw another owner to get something in return for his now worthless QB. Strategy - sure... Good FF business? I don't think so. (IMO) This is my only point here.Christo said:
Second, this arguement is pointless. If Leftwich was healthy & starting, I don't even know if his market value would be 2 future 2nds. In this case - he's still getting > probable market value for a average (some would say below average w/ injuiries, mechanical issues, etc.) IF HE WAS STILL STARTING IN JAX. KJ is hurt - and essentially everyone in the FF world knows this. BUT, he's going to be back in DET playing @ some point. Every FF owner can determine their risk tolerance w.r.t. KJ.
Third, and this is my personal opinion - never. I would not look to dump worthless players on un-suspecting owners. Best case you screw someone short term, and lose a trading partner in the furure - worst case the guy does his homework, rejects the deal and realizes you're an idiot trying to get over - again likely to lose a trading partner. If I (again personally) were to put Lefty 'on the block' - I'd note that he's been cut or whatever - take my lumps and get (current) market value. Same applies to injuries - as I wouldn't be the guy looking to dump CP last season after he broke his hand - to some owner on vacation that Sunday night. It sounds like this guy (not Christo) would.
IMO this is A LOT different than scooping up a FA to replace recently injured starters - all's fair there - insider info wise. It's not the "timing" of the action - it's the intention behind it. Dumping crap - screwing another owner in the process. I just think a good FF owner shouldn't have to resort to these tactics to win.
mad sweeney
Footballguy
I consider that to be an ethical violation as well as the unscrupulous trade, though to a much smaller degree. I'm of the opinion of letting each guy be responsible for his own team. Unless there's no money involved and you all are good friends. However, they are completely different in spirit. I agree that the other owner should have done his homework before agreeing to the trade and has no one to blame but himslef, but I think it's dirty pool as well as bad business for the future. And to be so proud of it...well if you were in my league I would never have any dealings with you after that.thecardiackid said:I'd guess the guy who was (un)fortunate enough to get the Leftwich end of this trade was needing a QB. Now, not only did he not get a servicable QB, but he also gave up 2 high future picks for a (best case) possible back up who is hopefully joining a different team, and needs to learn a new system as the QB leading the offense. I think we'd all agree he's screwed. Using 'insider' information IS why we're here. I get that. However, taking this info and rushing out (@ 3 PM - before the friggin press conference) to dump Lefty on some unsuspecting owner who likely has a job and isn't scouring this site, etc. 24x7 for news like this is, less than ethical @ best. If that's what you need to do to get your team ahead in your league - that's pretty sad IMO. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but I'll bet every other owner in this "shark's" league will be less inclined to deal w/ him in the future if he's pulling crap like this.This is precisely why you never accept a trade without checking your resources first, which would have been the counter-shark move by the other owner. Information here is to be used as a weapon against the competition, plain and simple; isn't that why everyone is here?!?I think most of them will secretly think it was a "shark" move. Nothing wrong with taking advantage of insider news you'll only hear on here. It wasn't a sure thing, but most of the time a pre-10k'er isn't going to risk getting IP banned to throw out a fake story that they know will be debunked.That's repugnant.Just want to give some love to PMCDADE. I ripped off someone in my league due to the headstart. Dumped Lefty for (2) future 2nds in my dynasty and the guy that i scammed emailed me quite the response once he found out the news.
I hope those 2nds are worth having everyone else in your league less than enthusiastic about dealing with you in the future.
The really depressing part is... you somehow seem proud of yourself. Not a 'shark' move, but something else that starts with SH_ _
I actually emailed the Lefty owner in one league - a guy who I know doesn't follow the news - to suggest grabbing a backup off the WW. I'd like to think it's not the case, but maybe I am morally unrealistic here. And maybe part of it is I am friends with the other owners in the majority of my leagues - so I'd never try to job them like this.
I do know that a large portion of this game we enjoy is luck, karma, etc. and in most cases what goes around, comes around.
:endhijack/rant:
dickey moe
Fingerpicker
NTTAWWT
Mr. Brownstone
Footballguy
Unknown as of right now.
whhwalker
Footballguy
Jaguars.com did not list team Pearman traded to, and the website is now down. TV station confirmed but again no mention of the team
az_prof
Footballguy
Why not go All In a few weeks or months ago? Then your team would have had time to adjust to the new leader. He would have had time to adjust to his role, get comfortable with the new offense (fist team always gets more reps), and you would have had a better chance to trade Leftwich for something.
az_prof
Footballguy
Plus, I must add that running a football team should not be like playing poker. Poker is a game of chance and a game of bluffing. There is no bluffing in football and you want to minimize chance as much as possible. Football is a game of long term strategy and short term tactics and practicing so that your tactical plan (game plan and plays) can be carried out the way you drew them up. Poker you are never thinking that far ahead and you have to take each hand as you find it. Football you should be thinking much further ahead--years ahead.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
I don`t see what the big deal is..it happens all the time.
Texans dumped David Carr..Rams dumped Warner, Lions dumped Harrington. Dallas dumped Bledsoe..SF dumped Garcia..just the nature of the game.
JDR felt the team responds better to Garrard..so be it. I have also heard Lefty is a bit of a pouter. That and everytime he gets hit it looks like he is going to cry.
Jax is better off.
Texans dumped David Carr..Rams dumped Warner, Lions dumped Harrington. Dallas dumped Bledsoe..SF dumped Garcia..just the nature of the game.
JDR felt the team responds better to Garrard..so be it. I have also heard Lefty is a bit of a pouter. That and everytime he gets hit it looks like he is going to cry.
Jax is better off.
Last edited by a moderator:
Gr00vus
Footballguy
You've got to be kidding me. The guy has taken a tremendous pounding for Jax, played through a ton of non-trivial injuries - and I don't suppose you saw highlights of what the guy did at Marshall did you? This guy is as tough as they come.
prymetyme25
Footballguy
yeah but the year that those guys got cut they weren't named the starters before OTAs and TC either.
JaxBill
Footballguy
Because then they'd be on the hook for Leftwich's 5 Mil salary.
Wadsworth
Footballguy
I totally agree, I wasn't justifying JDR's actions. As a fan of the Jags it worries me that Jack was so willing to gamble. If you start the season with Leftwich, a guy who might not have been great but hasn't been bad, and he gets hurt or doesn't play well you still have Garrard. Now we start the season with Garrard and if he gets hurt or doesn't play well.... Who knows? Gray has looked good in preseason and limited real game action, but the Jags are a now team, with a Super Bowl ready defense and rushing attack. And on roster they currently have a QB that hasn't been all that productive and turns the ball over way too much and an almost completely unproven back up. They had 9 months to make this choice and they waited until 9 days before the season opens.
Jiggyonthehut
Footballguy
Watch out for the Andre Woodson era to begin in Jacksonville.
Mr. Brownstone
Footballguy
Mr. Brownstone
Footballguy
This is the biggest problem I have with this whole situation.
Wadsworth
Footballguy
I suppose I should, just haven't found a new one I like yet.
Mr. Brownstone
Footballguy
I made a note to myself to come find this thread at the end of the year.I still don't like JDR's timing, but the decision worked out.
NeverEnough
Footballguy
LOve all the guys that jump right in calling for the lock & ban. Could he be full of crap? Yes, but grow up.
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