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LeGarrette Blount signs with NE (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Raider Nation
- Start date
Interseptopus
Footballguy
I get why they did it, but it's kind of bogus. Go figure the Patriots use a rarely used rule in the rule book.
They want the comp pick. They have no intention of signing Blount. But at this point if he doesn't get more than 1.1 million next season, if I'm Blount I just accept the tender and force their hand with 7 RBs on the roster.
They want the comp pick. They have no intention of signing Blount. But at this point if he doesn't get more than 1.1 million next season, if I'm Blount I just accept the tender and force their hand with 7 RBs on the roster.
Casting Couch
Footballguy
Brilliant move by New England
BroncoFreak_2K3
sucker for Orange
Definitely a slick move and doesnt surprise me that it's NE using it.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
I strongly disagree.
NE probably just thinks Blount would be worth $1.1mil to them. Why wouldn't they?
Gillislee and Burkhead seem like the two main guys that they wanted and are paying them like they want them. White/Lewis/Blount would be nice to have but they would all get paid less than $2mil this year and I'm sure they could move one of them at their salary if they really wanted to. Lewis could get injured before September anyway and then you are just talking about 4 RB's. The other guys are just roster bubble guys and nice to have around in case multiple guys get hurt. They were probably doomed anyway since the RB position has improved so much. Keep in mind those Bolden/Foster type guys couldn't beat out Blount for carries last year..... so many they aren't as good.
Doesn't seem bogus to me at all. Seems like NE would be dumb if they didn't make the move. The Patriots are a stronger team no matter how this plays out. There is no downside.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
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Anarchy99
Footballguy
Potentially a little of both. Compensatory picks are awarded based on qualifying free agent additions and subtractions. The compensatory pick levels are determined by the average yearly contract value of each player. (There's wording in the compensatory pick calculation formula having to do with playing time and player performance, but from what I have seen that has never really been a consideration).
A "qualifying player" is someone that played out his contract and became an unrestricted free agent. PLAYER X played all four years on his four year contract. A NON-qualifying player is one that was released by his team. PLAYER Y only played two years on a four yet deal and was cut. While he becomes an unrestricted free agent, he would not count toward the compensatory pick evaluation and determination process.
So to answer your question, if the Cowboys signed a player that was on the Chiefs for $5 million a year, Kansas City would get $5 million applied to their PLAYERS LOST ledger while Dallas would get $5 million to their PLAYERS ADDED ledger.
In Blount's case, if he signed somewhere outside of NE for $4 million a year (to make up an amount), the Patriots would end up getting that $4 million credited to their PLAYERS LOST list. And the team that signed him would have $4 million added to their PLAYERS ADDED list as part of the net gains and losses in free agency as it applies to compensatory picks. In this case, if the team that signed Blount might have been in line for a fifth round compensatory pick, they would stand a decent chance of "losing" that pick.
Off the top of my head, the Patriots added Stephon Gilmore, Rex Burkhead, and Lawrence Guy as free agents this off season but lost Logan Ryan, Jabaal Sheard, Chris Long, Martellus Bennett, and Barkevious Mingo to other teams. Gilmore and Ryan will end up cancelling each other out, so the Patriots are probably in line to get a couple of later round compensatory picks from "the draft fairy" based on their net losses.
I hope that made sense . . .
White just signed a 3 yr /12 M contract. Not sure if you're just looking at his base for '17 but they guaranteed nearly $5 M of the total contract.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
Yeah, I was basing it on what he is being paid this season(just under $1.8mil cap hit). I'm not sure exactly how it's structured but if it's a 3 year deal where $5mil is guaranteed I think my point still stands. It's a relatively cheap contract even based on the current salary cap. Three years from now it will likely look even cheaper. Both Gillislee and Burkhead count over $3mil against the cap for this season alone.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
so if he gets no offers by the cut off date he just signs the tender.....shrug...
Anarchy99
Footballguy
To follow up on the compensatory pick process, there are only 32 compensatory picks awarded in each draft.
It is not that difficult to decipher and predict which teams will get what picks. Once signings and player losses that cancelled each other out are determined (the window just closed on that), the NFL will list the top 32 compensatory free agency contracts and eventually will award the compensatory picks accordingly
In New England's case, they would have been in line for a third round compensatory pick for the loss of Logan Ryan. But signing Stephon Filmore negated that loss.
The lowest annual contract value of the Top 32 player contracts was for a little over $2 million a year. Blount would need to sign with another team before 7/22 for more than $2.05 million to land in the last compensatory pick slot (7th round).
With free agent signings escalating over the years, Blount would have to sign for more than $4.5 million to climb into the Top 25 compensatory picks awarded. I doubt anyone would pay him that much at this stage, so it would likely boil down to the Pats getting a 7th round compensatory pick if he signed for anywhere from $2.05 million to $4.5 million a year.
Folks can see how there teams fared this year in the compensatory pick process here:
https://overthecap.com/2018-compensatory-draft-picks-update-592017
It is not that difficult to decipher and predict which teams will get what picks. Once signings and player losses that cancelled each other out are determined (the window just closed on that), the NFL will list the top 32 compensatory free agency contracts and eventually will award the compensatory picks accordingly
In New England's case, they would have been in line for a third round compensatory pick for the loss of Logan Ryan. But signing Stephon Filmore negated that loss.
The lowest annual contract value of the Top 32 player contracts was for a little over $2 million a year. Blount would need to sign with another team before 7/22 for more than $2.05 million to land in the last compensatory pick slot (7th round).
With free agent signings escalating over the years, Blount would have to sign for more than $4.5 million to climb into the Top 25 compensatory picks awarded. I doubt anyone would pay him that much at this stage, so it would likely boil down to the Pats getting a 7th round compensatory pick if he signed for anywhere from $2.05 million to $4.5 million a year.
Folks can see how there teams fared this year in the compensatory pick process here:
https://overthecap.com/2018-compensatory-draft-picks-update-592017
mikel2014
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
So the guy scores 18 TDs for them last season, and they reward him by signing career backups to way more than they were willing to pay him and then as a final FU screw with his market just to maybe gain an extra pick at the end of round 4?
Seems kind of classless.
Seems kind of classless.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
but they win, so they can give the big FU to everybody and it doesn't matter. Guys will still sign there.
bostonfred
Footballguy
The tender is a binding agreement to pay a guy that doesn't currently have a job. How is that classless? Because they didn't pay him more than the zero other teams that had given him contact offers? Because if someone doubles their offer, they might get a 7th round comp pick?
Find a better reason to be outraged, dingbats.
Find a better reason to be outraged, dingbats.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Who is outraged? I don't expect Pat fans to ever admit they can do anything wrong. If you can't see it, maybe you're the dingbat?
Teams were waiting to sign him until after the deadline where he would not count against the pick formula. A team like Baltimore that was considering him. may not now because of this. If the Pats really wanted him they would have signed him before this point. They are manipulating the system for their gain, at the detriment of a former player. Maybe that's not classless to you, but I wouldn't want my team to do that to anyone. My team has plenty of things it's done wrong, it's ok to admit it.
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TheFanatic
Footballguy
Somebody is awfully sensitive this morning. Nobody kicked your dog. Lighten up Francis
bostonfred
Footballguy
Oooh.
I see what's classless. The patriots should not try to sign their own player, and should make sure an afc rival who might want him can take him away
Wait, no, still not seeing it.
They've literally made an offer to him and want him to play for them. The tender exists because the players and owners collectively bargained for a way to make sure veterans who don't get a deal in the first wave of free agency can still get a job and the teams that want to retain those veterans can still get a comp pick.
What's so nefarious about wanting to sign their 30 year old running back to a contract and guaranteeing him over a million dollars while he shops his services around for a better deal? They're classless because they may have impacted the ability he didn't have to get a 5 million dollar contract for more than Peterson or Charles got? Gtfo.
They gave him leverage in his negotiations because he has a fallback option now. Teams can't say hey here's the veteran minimum, take it or leave it. That's actually helpful in his negotiations.
And the patriots don't get any comp pick unless a team signs him to double their offer, in which case it's only a seventh round comp pick which is literally the latest possible pick.
If you want to call them classless, save your irrational anger for them not signing Malcolm butler to an extension and spending the money on Gilmore instead. Even then, all they did was sign a guy to a tender just like every time someone gets franchised. But i totally get why butler is mad and why a lot of teams would have signed him to an extension this year instead of letting it become an issue. At least that is a tough business decision.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I don't really understand why teams would avoid signing Blount because of this, unless NFL teams don't fully understand how the compensatory pick process works. Sure, I get that sports media folks may not get it, but NFL teams should know how this stuff works.
As for those saying the Pats dissed him for "career backups," just because they sat in BUF or CIN doesn't mean they will sit in NE. People are ignoring that the high octane NE offense enabled Blount to score 18 TD last year. While Blount capitalized and got in the end zone, IMO, a lot of backs could have scored just as many times given the frequency the Pats got to the red zone.
I liked Blount and enjoyed having him on my fantasy teams for a song. But the other backs in NE are more well rounded, regardless of their price tag.
I do find it interesting that BB is opening up his pocketbook to spend money at the RB position, something he really hasn't done since Dillon was around.
As for those saying the Pats dissed him for "career backups," just because they sat in BUF or CIN doesn't mean they will sit in NE. People are ignoring that the high octane NE offense enabled Blount to score 18 TD last year. While Blount capitalized and got in the end zone, IMO, a lot of backs could have scored just as many times given the frequency the Pats got to the red zone.
I liked Blount and enjoyed having him on my fantasy teams for a song. But the other backs in NE are more well rounded, regardless of their price tag.
I do find it interesting that BB is opening up his pocketbook to spend money at the RB position, something he really hasn't done since Dillon was around.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
They had every right to sign those guys and not Blount - that wasn't really the main point of the post (was just trying to look at it from Blount's perspective on that).
Anyway, willing to admit my initial post was perhaps a bit of an over-reaction - but I do think this is a bit of a cheeseball move on their part. They obviously did not want Blount (despite the disingenuous views of some irrational Pats' fans) so they should have just let him walk without putting any restrictions on him.
bostonfred
Footballguy
Lol
How is it obvious that they don't want to sign him? I'll obviously agree that they "obviously" don't want to pay him more than 1.1 million, but that's basically the same deal they gave him last year and they were the highest offer then too.
They gave a binding offer to a running back who turns 31 this season and hadn't made any other deal yet while still letting him pursue other offers. How does that mean they obviously don't want him?
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
bostonfred
Footballguy
I obviously don't like the patriots. I've only shown them my loyalty and given them money for their products and services for years and offered to do the same again this year
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
Bostonfred, the most sensible guy on the boards.....until the conversation is about the Patriots.
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BoltBacker
Footballguy
That doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility to me. All it would take is the right injury to a team that THINK they are contender(whether they are or not) or even have a coaching staff/GM on the hot seat.
For that matter I still don't understand how Blount wouldn't be worth at least $2mil for PHI/GB/IND/DET/LAC even without an injury. Not saying he'd play nearly as well in those situations as he has in NE but those teams all need Blount more than NE imo.
But I will admit I see think 7th rounders are more valuable that most people do. According to an Adam Schefter tweet in 2016, "Hope for underdogs: There are more undrafted free agents on NFL rosters today (481) than 1st- and 2nd-round picks combined (480), per Elias". With extra 7th rounders you don't have to recruit those players. There is talent out there in the 7th round(and later) even if the casual fans don't realize it.
Hu-Tang Clan
Footballguy
BoltBacker
Footballguy
Yeah, I probably should have given a link....
http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/one-staggering-stat-shows-how-important-undrafted-players-are-in-the-nfl-090516
It's even more impressive when you consider the amount of rope given to 1st/2nd rounders when they fail to produce and how many second and third chances they get around the league even when they are a bust.
bostonfred
Footballguy
Teams get one first round pick but can sign as many free agents as they want within the roster limits and salary cap. Seattle brought in a bunch of starters just bringing in people with a similar profile - like big defensive backs - and quickly cutting all but the best guys. There are hundreds of undrafted free agents every year.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Most teams get 1 first round pick (well, those not named New England do). Plenty of teams sign 20 UDFA's as soon as the draft is over . . . and then will have multiple open tryout sessions and will bring in guys as camp bodies. The thing is, the general public doesn't often hear about those sessions (and reporters don't generally cover them).
So the comparison boils down to a data set of 2 players a year (first and second round picks) vs. a combination of 20 immediate UDFA signings plus another 50 or 60 that go to tryouts, team sessions, training camp invites, or private tryouts. When you factor in that the UDFA's cost less than a team's lunch tab, they become a lot more attractive.
Based on that, the UDFA's in the league being equal or greater than first and second round picks would not surprise me at all.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
The other thing to consider is that a) there is no guarantee the Pats would actual get a 7th round compensatory pick for Blount, The league could determine that in the net gains and losses that he wouldn't merit a pick . . . or they could say NE already had their picks slotted based on other net gains or loses. Similarly, the team that signed Blount may not be in line to be awarded a compensatory pick in the first place (or his signing may not impact the pick they might get).
On a side note, I always wondered why teams treat picks like gold and why they wouldn't trade picks for established players (the strategy NE invoked this year). Teams often trade picks for picks, but don't trade picks for players anywhere near as often. I always felt that teams would know what they were getting in an established player vs. a complete unknown rookie that they would use with the draft pick.
matttyl
Footballguy
If I'm understand this correctly (doubtful at best) - a week or so ago teams could have just signed Blount to a 1 year $1.5m deal (making up numbers). Now it will cost them that same $1.5m and the potential slide from maybe a 4th round compensatory pick to a 5th or 6th rounder.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Doubtful but I suppose there may be a non-zero chance. By now, teams should know where they fall on the pecking order to be awarded compensatory picks. The site with the link I posted earlier has been very accurate in how things have played out over the years. Some teams have mastered the compensatory pick game while others haven't really entered the fray all that much. Teams like NE and BAL generally get a lot of picks awarded to them because of the way they set up contracts. For example, signing a player to a one year contract with a team option for a second year (with no real interest in keeping the player for a second year) will get the team credit in the "lost player" category. The Patriots have been setting up contracts like that for 10 years (at least as far back as Donte Stallworth in 2007). They did the same thing more recently with Revis and some other players.
Bottom line, like other off seasons, Blount seems to want more than teams are willing to pay him. He has always struggled to garner much interest. I would guess he will eventually sign a low dollar contract with a lot of incentives. I don't know how that gets applied in the compensatory pick calculations (for example, a base salary of $2 million with up to another $4 million in incentives). In that case, based on base salary, Blount wouldn't make enough to warrant a compensatory pick. But if he made all $6 million available to him, then that would put him in the 5th round pick range.
That Over the Cap site seems to think that Blount signing elsewhere probably wouldn't net the Pats another comp pick, but it would probably solidify them getting awarded a 4th and a 5th for losing Sheard and Bennett. Outcomes for potential suitors for Blount would vary depending upon the team.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
I guess I always thought it was for salary cap reasons. If you hit on a young player(and you have a much better chance of doing that by having extra picks) you can have a contributing player at a very, very cheap contract for several years. For instance Thuney(3rd round'16), Andrews(UDFA'15), Mason(4th round'15), Cannon(5th round'11) and Solder(1st round'11) allowed NE to sign Gilmore to a substantial FA deal. The entire OL for the SB champions has been pretty cheap salary cap wise and only one of them required a premium pick. Nate Solder makes a tidy sum now.... but how much has NE averaged paying him over his entire time as a starter on a very successful team? So because they drafted him he has actually been relatively cheap over the course of his career as a Patriot.
Adam Schefter
✔@AdamSchefter
Eagles are signing former Patriots' RB LeGarrette Blount to a one-year deal, per team official. Cardinals also had some mild interest.
9:16 AM - 17 May 2017
✔@AdamSchefter
Eagles are signing former Patriots' RB LeGarrette Blount to a one-year deal, per team official. Cardinals also had some mild interest.
9:16 AM - 17 May 2017
Ned Ryerson
Footballguy
JohnnyU
Footballguy
ex-ghost
Footballguy
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Anarchy99
Footballguy
As far as the whole discussion on compensatory picks from last week goes, the Eagles weren't going to qualify for a compensatory pick anyway, so you can't lose what you don't have.
Blount's one year deal is worth up to $2.8 million. Not sure what the incentives or qualifiers are him to receive the full amount. If his contract is viewed as worth $2.8 million, that would most likely rank as the 31st highest qualifying contract (out of 32 compensatory picks). (To better explain, that would be the 31st highest contract not cancelled out by other team signings.)
If the league sees it that way, NE would get the second to last compensatory pick after the 7th round (unless they don't feel that Blount tipped the scales in the compensatory formula to merit a compensatory pick). If that happened, the team that would most likely lose out would be CIN, who would lose their rights to Mr. Irrelevant.
Blount's one year deal is worth up to $2.8 million. Not sure what the incentives or qualifiers are him to receive the full amount. If his contract is viewed as worth $2.8 million, that would most likely rank as the 31st highest qualifying contract (out of 32 compensatory picks). (To better explain, that would be the 31st highest contract not cancelled out by other team signings.)
If the league sees it that way, NE would get the second to last compensatory pick after the 7th round (unless they don't feel that Blount tipped the scales in the compensatory formula to merit a compensatory pick). If that happened, the team that would most likely lose out would be CIN, who would lose their rights to Mr. Irrelevant.
