Let's talk Kellen Winslow (1 Viewer)

[Crash Davis]

So Bucs fans, talk to me about Winslow. This guy has been a pretty big disappointment so far this year. I don't see much of the Bucs, so i'm wondering what you see as the main reasons for his lack of production, and specifically his lack of red zone looks? Is it due to offensive design, meaning he is in to block more because the o-line is weak? Does Freeman just not look his way with the emergence of Williams? Is he just not the same player he used to be and doesn't get separation anymore? Or maybe it's simply that defenses scheme to take him away? The reality is likely a combination of answers, but i'm curious what you are seeing because I am trying to figure out if this guy is someone to hold onto/go get for a late season resurgence, or someone to drop and avoid for someone with more potential.

 

[fruity pebbles]

think hes a 27 year old playing on 60 year old legs and its catching up to him.

 

[flac0]

Not a bucs fan, but I did watch a bunch of last weekends game. I noticed that the Bucs went with 2 TEs a good deal -- with neither of the two being Winslow. This was, of course, on run downs, but it limits his ability to score. Its maybe not that surprising, because he isn't really known for blocking, but it wasn't what I expected to see, and might be part of the deal. Can't comment specifically on RZ because I think they only ran like 4 RZ plays all day, or some surprisingly low number for scoring so much.

All three tight ends caught one ball, none in the few RZ plays, FWIW.

 

[Crash Davis]

Not a bucs fan, but I did watch a bunch of last weekends game. I noticed that the Bucs went with 2 TEs a good deal -- with neither of the two being Winslow. This was, of course, on run downs, but it limits his ability to score. Its maybe not that surprising, because he isn't really known for blocking, but it wasn't what I expected to see, and might be part of the deal. Can't comment specifically on RZ because I think they only ran like 4 RZ plays all day, or some surprisingly low number for scoring so much.All three tight ends caught one ball, none in the few RZ plays, FWIW.

Thanks for the input, it is appreciated. I did a little bit more research myself and according to FBG's Redzone stats the Buccaneers have only targeted TEs 3 times this year in the red zone, and Winslow as all 3. Furthermore, they have only targeted their WRs 9 times in 7 games. The RBs conversely have 26 "looks" It seems that once inside the 20 TB either runs or throws screens more than 2/3 of the time. I'm sure that might even out a bit as the season moves on, but it's a big enough sample for me to say that I don't see Winslow's TD numbers suddenly jumping up dramatically.

 

[TwinTurbo]

Winslow is tied for 10th in targets for TE's, so the opportunity is there. But he doesn't have many targets in the red zone and his YPC is down too. I would look for him to get back on track this week with at least 1 TD vs the Falcons and a more active role in the gameplan.

 

[2Squirrels1Nut]

Winslow is tied for 10th in targets for TE's, so the opportunity is there. But he doesn't have many targets in the red zone and his YPC is down too. I would look for him to get back on track this week with at least 1 TD vs the Falcons and a more active role in the gameplan.

Why?

 

[SWC]

i've been burned by this guy too many times in teh past and do not support him.

 

[2Squirrels1Nut]

I never thought I'd consistently be starting Todd Heap over him, but here I am.

 

[Football Critic]

Hes terrible and I never liked his attitude or play. Want proof he sux look at game film.

 

[RJS113]

He's still a great player, and as a Bucs fan, I'm glad to have him on my team. With that said, I wouldn't want him on my fantasy team. Williams is Freeman's go to guy, and Freeman spreads the ball around too much for more than one receiver to put up good numbers consistently. Winslow will have a couple big games this year, but so will Benn, Spurlock, and even Stroughter. Guessing which one will have the best game each week is impossible. Williams is the only Bucs receiver you can rely on.

 

[RJS113]

Hes terrible and I never liked his attitude or play. Want proof he sux look at game film.

This post is terrible.

 

[todisco1]

Hes terrible and I never liked his attitude or play. Want proof he sux look at game film.

This post is terrible.

Agreed. Worst football critic ever.

 

[Raiderfan32904]

When I drafted Winslow late, I figured he was the last of the solid TE#1’s to be had. I figured he had established himself as the go-to guy and especially in the Red Zone. Coming into the season, I had heard many good things about Mike Williams, but I never dreamed that he’d be such a factor as to make Winslow an afterthought. And Winslow came into the season with his usual contempt for practice. He thinks his elite talent can overcome the need for practice reps. Mike Williams has worked his butt off with Josh Freeman and they have developed a nice connection.

All this is troubling to Winslow owners. He was targeted 10, 10 and 9 times the game before last, and was almost nonexistent against Arizona. FBG’s projected a nice game against AZ and said he would be a safe start with at least 10 targets. He had like 2.

Is this a one week aberration or is a trend developing? He is consistently rated inside the top ten TE rankings, but I am unsure if this is a mirage. He hasn’t scored a TD all year, and he doesn’t seem to factor in the Bucs RZ plans.

I know last week was tough for Winslow owners, and everyone has “off weeks”. But there are a number of warning signs about him that make me nervous. At this point, I’ll be happy if he can just continue to get 10 targets a game with zero TD production. I usually can get around 10 points in PPR, and that’s not great, but it is production I can live with.

Anyone else worried about Winslow going forward?

 

[Football Critic]

Hes terrible and I never liked his attitude or play. Want proof he sux look at game film.

This post is terrible.

Agreed. Worst football critic ever.

Is it hard for you to look at game film, or can you not break it down?It said lets talk Winslow, whats more to talk about? His stunning play? He has been putrid, so awful in fact the go to guy is a rookie because Winslow cant get open, nor can he explode off the line. He is a below average player and even more below average pass catcher....I could post stats, but I'm sure since your not breaking down film, you have time to look up the stats.But the fact that you guys are in here looking up info on him lets me know your terrible for having him on your team. I just have been bitter from years ago, you know, when he sucked then too.Heres a stat 0 tds thru half a season...0, not 2, not even 1....ZERO!

 

[Football Critic]

He's still a great player, and as a Bucs fan, I'm glad to have him on my team. With that said, I wouldn't want him on my fantasy team. Williams is Freeman's go to guy, and Freeman spreads the ball around too much for more than one receiver to put up good numbers consistently. Winslow will have a couple big games this year, but so will Benn, Spurlock, and even Stroughter. Guessing which one will have the best game each week is impossible. Williams is the only Bucs receiver you can rely on.

Mr Critic of insight and opinions, What info did this provide?Your insight as to who may get the ball? WORST CRITIC EVER!Benn has done nothing and when your talking Spurlock and Stroughter to defend a Winslows down play, what does that say? THAT HE IS NOT GOODPlease give me more insight about how Stroughter, spurlock, and Benn MAYYYYY have big games.Oh and what is your reasoning to believe winslow will have a big game?He may catch a TD hear and there and have 100 yeard game eventually, but that is far from being a good consistant player or TE. so with all that being said I defer to my oroginal post....He is terrible!

 

[cvnpoka]

http://www.pewterreport.com/index.php?opti...:&Itemid=15

“They doubled Antonio Gates in San Diego. We kind of assumed that was going to be the situation going into our game and that is what happened. There were a number of plays that we had designed to go to Kellen as the number one progression. Either he wasn’t able to get open, or they doubled him

winslow has 30 catches on 47 targets for a 64% rate. its pretty average for a te.hes tied for 7th most targets/game, 8th in catches and 14th in yards for tes.

so really hes only lacking tds. for some reason tb doesnt go to him in the red zone much anymore. dunno if that will change going forward or not. its reasonable to hope he snags a few tds going forward.

 

[Football Critic]

Hes terrible and I never liked his attitude or play. Want proof he sux look at game film.

This post is terrible.

Agreed. Worst football critic ever.

....and still waiting for insight from todisco1 ?You want to bash me uncalled for for an opinion without insight which I would have given if it mattered, thats fine, but at least provid info urself, instead of just being 'that guy'.

 

[Rick James]

I like him this week vs. Atlanta, if that means anything. ATL still can't defend the pass.

 

[Premier]

Mr. Football Critic who claims to be breaking down film, should be watching a little more closely, as Winslow is often doubled, which is what has opened up things for Williams, as it's been taking the safety away from him. Now that may change as Mike has established himself, but that's often been the case for the first 7 weeks.

 

[harryhood]

Usually when "The Critic" calls a guy out for being downright awful, he goes off.

See Bowe, Dwayne

See Williams, Mike

 

[SSOG]

Hes terrible and I never liked his attitude or play. Want proof he sux look at game film.

This post is terrible.

This post, on the other hand, is right on the money.I don't get what's not to like about Winslow's attitude or his play. Well, I can see how people might not like his off-the-field attitude (He's a Soldjah!), but on-field, his attitude is top-notch. Plays hard every down, and is one of the few elite TEs who isn't just a capable blocker, he's a willing blocker. He seems to truly take pride in his blocking. He's constantly playing hard and pushing his body to its limits. I often feel sad that he suffered those injuries early in his career, because I think if we had seen a 10-year career of Winslow with a 100% knee, he'd go down in history as one of the all-time greats. Instead, he's got a 70% knee, and he's "merely" one of the best in the league.

 

[cvnpoka]

agreed, even browns fans speak highly of winslows effort and play.

 

[2Squirrels1Nut]

Hes terrible and I never liked his attitude or play. Want proof he sux look at game film.

This post is terrible.

This post, on the other hand, is right on the money.I don't get what's not to like about Winslow's attitude or his play. Well, I can see how people might not like his off-the-field attitude (He's a Soldjah!), but on-field, his attitude is top-notch. Plays hard every down, and is one of the few elite TEs who isn't just a capable blocker, he's a willing blocker. He seems to truly take pride in his blocking. He's constantly playing hard and pushing his body to its limits. I often feel sad that he suffered those injuries early in his career, because I think if we had seen a 10-year career of Winslow with a 100% knee, he'd go down in history as one of the all-time greats. Instead, he's got a 70% knee, and he's "merely" one of the best in the league.

I think Winslow's a classic case of situation having a negative net effect upon a player given his talent. He's wasted there given how little they use him. It reminds me of Shockey in its own way, though Winslow's of course better.

 

[RJS113]

Hes terrible and I never liked his attitude or play. Want proof he sux look at game film.

This post is terrible.

This post, on the other hand, is right on the money.I don't get what's not to like about Winslow's attitude or his play. Well, I can see how people might not like his off-the-field attitude (He's a Soldjah!), but on-field, his attitude is top-notch. Plays hard every down, and is one of the few elite TEs who isn't just a capable blocker, he's a willing blocker. He seems to truly take pride in his blocking. He's constantly playing hard and pushing his body to its limits. I often feel sad that he suffered those injuries early in his career, because I think if we had seen a 10-year career of Winslow with a 100% knee, he'd go down in history as one of the all-time greats. Instead, he's got a 70% knee, and he's "merely" one of the best in the league.

I think Winslow's a classic case of situation having a negative net effect upon a player given his talent. He's wasted there given how little they use him. It reminds me of Shockey in its own way, though Winslow's of course better.

Just because Winslow isn't putting up great fantasy stats, doesn't mean he is being wasted in Tampa. Winslow is very valuable to the Bucs. He draws attention from the other receivers, and Freeman often looks to Winslow on 3rd down. Winslow is usually very clutch. One example I'll use is the Rams game. Winslow had 5 catches for 44 yards, and 0 TDs. Not great stats, but he caught a 9 yard pass on 4th and 3 with 1:12 left in the game. That kept the game alive, and a few plays later the Bucs score the game winning TD. I agree with Raheem Morris that stats are for losers. Yeah, you probably don't want Winslow starting for your fantasy team, but I'm definitely glad to have him on the Bucs.

 

[2Squirrels1Nut]

Hes terrible and I never liked his attitude or play. Want proof he sux look at game film.

This post is terrible.

This post, on the other hand, is right on the money.I don't get what's not to like about Winslow's attitude or his play. Well, I can see how people might not like his off-the-field attitude (He's a Soldjah!), but on-field, his attitude is top-notch. Plays hard every down, and is one of the few elite TEs who isn't just a capable blocker, he's a willing blocker. He seems to truly take pride in his blocking. He's constantly playing hard and pushing his body to its limits. I often feel sad that he suffered those injuries early in his career, because I think if we had seen a 10-year career of Winslow with a 100% knee, he'd go down in history as one of the all-time greats. Instead, he's got a 70% knee, and he's "merely" one of the best in the league.

I think Winslow's a classic case of situation having a negative net effect upon a player given his talent. He's wasted there given how little they use him. It reminds me of Shockey in its own way, though Winslow's of course better.

Just because Winslow isn't putting up great fantasy stats, doesn't mean he is being wasted in Tampa. Winslow is very valuable to the Bucs. He draws attention from the other receivers, and Freeman often looks to Winslow on 3rd down. Winslow is usually very clutch. One example I'll use is the Rams game. Winslow had 5 catches for 44 yards, and 0 TDs. Not great stats, but he caught a 9 yard pass on 4th and 3 with 1:12 left in the game. That kept the game alive, and a few plays later the Bucs score the game winning TD. I agree with Raheem Morris that stats are for losers. Yeah, you probably don't want Winslow starting for your fantasy team, but I'm definitely glad to have him on the Bucs.

So if I have one of the top receiving TE's in the league and all I'm able to do with him is use him as a decoy with occasional "move the chain" receptions underneath, that's not wasting his talent? You might want to raise your expectations a tad.

 

[RJS113]

So if I have one of the top receiving TE's in the league and all I'm able to do with him is use him as a decoy with occasional "move the chain" receptions underneath, that's not wasting his talent? You might want to raise your expectations a tad.

He is on pace for about 70 catches and 700 yards. I'm sure he'll also have a few TDs in the 2nd half of the season also. Not terrible numbers for a TE by any means. The point that I was making is that he is more valuable to the Bucs than his stats would indicate.

 

[todisco1]

Hes terrible and I never liked his attitude or play. Want proof he sux look at game film.

This post is terrible.

Agreed. Worst football critic ever.

....and still waiting for insight from todisco1 ?You want to bash me uncalled for for an opinion without insight which I would have given if it mattered, thats fine, but at least provid info urself, instead of just being 'that guy'.

I'm bashing you for a horrible opinion. It's not uncalled for. You say you he "sux". He doesn't. He's a great TE who is very solid in every facet of the game. I have ho problem if you don't like his attitude, but saying he "sux" is flat out ignorant.

 

[top dog]

Hes terrible and I never liked his attitude or play. Want proof he sux look at game film.

This post is terrible.

Agreed. Worst football critic ever.

....and still waiting for insight from todisco1 ?You want to bash me uncalled for for an opinion without insight which I would have given if it mattered, thats fine, but at least provid info urself, instead of just being 'that guy'.

You're kind of an angry person. Did you know that?