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Little brother addicted to pillsUPDATE Needles now :( (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter STEADYMOBBIN 22
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Insoxicated
I had a very good friend who went down this path.
Pills... ended up shooting up H between toes and homeless. Got arrested for aggravated burglary while breaking into a motel room out of his mind looking for pills. Relapsed multiple times during rehabs/probation/halfway houses.
He's a few years clean and seems to have his #### together, finally. I was the last one to let go and give up on him. I was the last one to "take him back". He called me after we hung out the other day (for the first real time since he has gotten clean) and was practically in tears about how much it meant to him to hang out. I think he finally gets it.
There IS hope, but he has to want it. Not many do.
Pills... ended up shooting up H between toes and homeless. Got arrested for aggravated burglary while breaking into a motel room out of his mind looking for pills. Relapsed multiple times during rehabs/probation/halfway houses.
He's a few years clean and seems to have his #### together, finally. I was the last one to let go and give up on him. I was the last one to "take him back". He called me after we hung out the other day (for the first real time since he has gotten clean) and was practically in tears about how much it meant to him to hang out. I think he finally gets it.
There IS hope, but he has to want it. Not many do.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
Damn that sucks. I have a nephew that was hooked on heroin but turned his life around and has been doing great for many years now.
It took a couple years of rehab and counseling to beat it but it can be done. One of the keys for him was that he had to leave town and get away from the people that he was hanging with. This was about 10-11 years ago and he has only been back in town twice and both of those times it was only for a few days for family events.
Best of luck.
It took a couple years of rehab and counseling to beat it but it can be done. One of the keys for him was that he had to leave town and get away from the people that he was hanging with. This was about 10-11 years ago and he has only been back in town twice and both of those times it was only for a few days for family events.
Best of luck.
Pop Tart
Footballguy
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Keep in mind that he's been hooked on heroin for a minimum of a year and a half now. He's going to relapse, and that's normal. But I agree - unless he is willing to go to rehab and shows objective evidence of trying to turn his life around, he's toxic for your family. He has to be removed from your mom's home.
johnnycakes
Footballguy
If the kid is living with mom and is a heroin addict, I'd bet dollars to doughnuts he's been ripping mom off, one way or the other, too... she should carefully inventory her possessions and account for all of her checks and loose cash she may have stashed around the house.STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:
ETA: Also run a credit check - pay for it if you have to - to make sure there's no open credit card accounts or anything out there that no one knows about under mom's or whoever else's name and ssn he may have used.
Also, he should be kicked out of mom's even if he does go to rehab... they should place him in a halfway house after rehab, which may or may not be close to where he lives. If living at mom's and shooting up go together, then that's a dynamic that has to be broken... he needs to totally change his life, not just make a few small, convenient changes, and it isn't easy.
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Wilbur Wood
Footballguy
Ironic that the date of this original post, May 17, 2013, is the date that my wife took the call from the Orange County coroner's office that our oldest son (22) had died of a heroin overdose. He had been battling this addiction for about 2 years. He had some wonderful stretches of sobriety in which we saw glimpses of his potential sober adult state but invariably he couldn't kick the addiction.
Some general thoughts:
#1. Your brother is well past the point where an ultimatum of rehab or 1) you'll have him arrested assuming there are things you could hang over his head such as stealing or possession, 2) he will be tossed out on the street with no support from the family
#2. You and your mom need to be totally prepared to stand behind the consequences in #1 above if he refuses rehab. If he refuses it may be a two step process as he will then if tossed out get himself arrested or bottom out enough to accept rehab
#3. Pick a rehab place a long way from home. You all will sleep better with him further away. He should never live at home again (unless deep in the future after multi years sober)
#4. Rehab should be followed by a step down sober living arrangement , with testing and consequences, for at least 6 months post rehab
#5. We never really got much past step 4 so I won't bother with additional steps
#6. Financial support from the family needs to be hard linked to staying clean. You all need to be able to talk to his case workers and verify that he is staying clean.
#7. take a strong stand when he tries to tell you he is better and wants to come home and short cut the process
You need to be a lets follow through on the consequences part of the equation each and every time
Good luck. There are no easy answers. Mileage may vary by operator. There are no easy answers
It is one step at a time. Don't lay out the long term plan to him now, just get him in rehab
Some general thoughts:
#1. Your brother is well past the point where an ultimatum of rehab or 1) you'll have him arrested assuming there are things you could hang over his head such as stealing or possession, 2) he will be tossed out on the street with no support from the family
#2. You and your mom need to be totally prepared to stand behind the consequences in #1 above if he refuses rehab. If he refuses it may be a two step process as he will then if tossed out get himself arrested or bottom out enough to accept rehab
#3. Pick a rehab place a long way from home. You all will sleep better with him further away. He should never live at home again (unless deep in the future after multi years sober)
#4. Rehab should be followed by a step down sober living arrangement , with testing and consequences, for at least 6 months post rehab
#5. We never really got much past step 4 so I won't bother with additional steps
#6. Financial support from the family needs to be hard linked to staying clean. You all need to be able to talk to his case workers and verify that he is staying clean.
#7. take a strong stand when he tries to tell you he is better and wants to come home and short cut the process
You need to be a lets follow through on the consequences part of the equation each and every time
Good luck. There are no easy answers. Mileage may vary by operator. There are no easy answers
It is one step at a time. Don't lay out the long term plan to him now, just get him in rehab
timschochet
Footballguy
Damn. Wilbur Wood I am so sorry for your loss, but how brave of you to offer advice here, all of it sounding excellent.
To the OP, this is a horrible situation well beyond my own ken. I wish you the very best of luck.
To the OP, this is a horrible situation well beyond my own ken. I wish you the very best of luck.
tommyboy
Footballguy
you need to find him a 6 month rehab, Salvation Army has it, and I'm sure there are others that are geared strictly for Heroin/meth abusers usually the local DA's office can point you in the right direction because a lot of judges will send repeat offenders into the 6 month diversion as their last chance before 10 yr federal prison terms.
my sister was a heroin addict and made it through the 6 month deal, came out a different person. She's been clean./sober for 15 years, married, 2 kids is a very solid person. I wish you the same luck my family had with her.
my sister was a heroin addict and made it through the 6 month deal, came out a different person. She's been clean./sober for 15 years, married, 2 kids is a very solid person. I wish you the same luck my family had with her.
El Floppo
Footballguy
sorry for your loss WW- what a horrible thing to go through.
I echo Tim's words too- thank for sharing your experiences here... really hope your words help Moobin with his brother.
Johnny Rock
Footballguy
So sorry to hear about your son Wilbur Wood. Thanks for sharing.
randall146
Footballguy
One issue with Salvation Army is they are VERY religious which can be either very helpful or harmful depending on the addict. Also, it is a "work-based" program, which means as part of the program you must work for them voluntarily - again not the best situation for some people
Tackling Dummies
Footballguy
I have a nephew who was addicted to Oxycodone who stole, lied, cheated everyone in the family, lost his job, his girlfriend and pretty much everything. His bottom was getting arrested on Chistmas Eve after threatening his grandmom while he was on something. He's been clean for a few years, so it's great to see him again.[icon] said:
El Floppo
Footballguy
One of my best friends from Jr High ran with a different crowd in HS. I didn't know that she had essentially run away from our suburban town and was living in SF, running with some very "creative" people, all of whom were shooting heroin- including her. I lost touch with her for a year- the year her parents sent her to pre-glasnost Poland to get dried out (they had some distant relative there). It worked, thank god, but she lost a lot of friends to combos of ODing and/or AIDS (this was the early/mid 80s before clean needles were better understood to combat the spread of HIV). To this day, she credits that year in Poland with saving her life and getting her back on track with a career (writing).
cstu
Footballguy
El Floppo
Footballguy
Hilts
Footballguy
Condolences to you and your family, WW.
No real advice for you, Steady, but best wishes. A very good friend of mine went through something similar with her sister. There were bumps in the road to sobriety, but she's been sober for a couple years now and is doing great. Hoping your brother gets there at some point soon.
No real advice for you, Steady, but best wishes. A very good friend of mine went through something similar with her sister. There were bumps in the road to sobriety, but she's been sober for a couple years now and is doing great. Hoping your brother gets there at some point soon.
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
I just wanted to stop in and say thanks for all the well wishes, thoughts, shared losses and advice.
My mother gave him til Friday, which we all know is too soft of a stance.
He had a very good stretch of sobriety for about a month, complete with Facebook announcement about how he was back and not the person he was , but has relapsed and I haven't heard anything from him in 2 months. Not until my mom shared her weekend.
At this point, he's causing go harm to our mother. Her blood pressure is through the roof and if this continues, I fear what it will do to her.
I don't know what to do other then have/ try an intervention, complete with a out of state rehab program.
He has to want it , but he'll never hit rock bottom while he has a place to stay , a cel provided, and his car insurance paid for. She's enabling him by just doing what a mother natural foes for her own.
Problem is, he's dead if she/ we dont make a HARD stand.
Ugh .
My mother gave him til Friday, which we all know is too soft of a stance.
He had a very good stretch of sobriety for about a month, complete with Facebook announcement about how he was back and not the person he was , but has relapsed and I haven't heard anything from him in 2 months. Not until my mom shared her weekend.
At this point, he's causing go harm to our mother. Her blood pressure is through the roof and if this continues, I fear what it will do to her.
I don't know what to do other then have/ try an intervention, complete with a out of state rehab program.
He has to want it , but he'll never hit rock bottom while he has a place to stay , a cel provided, and his car insurance paid for. She's enabling him by just doing what a mother natural foes for her own.
Problem is, he's dead if she/ we dont make a HARD stand.
Ugh .
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Godsbrother
Footballguy
Zow
Footballguy
Zow
Footballguy
What I would say is that if he does get arrested, especially on serious charges, do not bond him out. I don't see this from any sort of tough love angle or anything like that. I say this because many jurisdictions come down hard on those who commit new crimes while on release for previous charges (in my state, it's an automatic 2 years additional to any sentence).
T Bell
Footballguy
T Bell
Footballguy
The key person here is mom, IMHO. If she doesn't stay strong, it's going to prevent any chance he has to recover because she'll just continue to enable him. I'd focus my attention on preparing her for the long haul with your bro.
Again, sorry for this situation - it's miserable any way you slice it.
Wilbur Wood
Footballguy
Giving a junkie, one who is currently using, an extra couple of days usually just translates in the mind of the addict to, "I have a couple of days to get real high, so might as well get my money's worth".
I don't know if your brother has a way to survive financially if tossed out of the house. If not, it usually boils down to 3 stark choices 1) rehab under the terms that you and your mom define, or 2) he must immediately leave the house ( cancel car insurance) this will leave him after a few days of bumming around with 3 choices, a) come back and accept rehab on your terms, b) likely get arrested to support his habit, c) or perhaps he will die young (addicts living on the street don't usually last very long).
Tough for your mom to draw these tough lines by herself, so you may need to insert yourself more and become the "heavy". It is a very tough role to play having played it myself for a few years (and I certainly didn't play it perfectly, but today I know that I did my best).
Thanks to all those who expressed kind words.
Buckfast 1
Footballguy
My brother was addicted to pain pills for years while living in our hometown, but has made an incredible recovery over the past year and a half. He was close to experimenting with heroin (his best friend at the time and pill partner was), but checked himself into rehab before he inevitably got to that point.
I'm not exactly sure how to convince someone to get help for addiction, as thankfully my brother eventually came to that realization on his own. I didn't realize how bad he had gotten because I was living at a distance in another state and he was good at hiding his addiction from everyone. His best friend in the world died from taking opiates a few years ago, but that apparently only pushed him deeper into opiate addiction to kill the pain. I think he eventually realized that opiates were running/destroying his life -- pushing him closer to his best friend's fate, and he decided that he wanted to make a change.
The best advice that I can give is to try to help your brother obtain a total change in life circumstances, including moving to another location far away from his current friend network at home. I think one of the hardest parts of escaping addiction is removing yourself from the social networks in which hard drugs are prevalent. It is so easy to fall back into the cycle when people around you are using. My brother moved out to Colorado with me about a month after he entering rehab. It was tough at first, but after a few months in which I think he struggled with withdrawal symptoms, he ultimately embraced a new life with a new job and new friends out in Colorado. He moved in with me last fall, and we started doing lots of fun stuff together - hiking, snowboarding, brewing beer, playing soccer, going to concerts, etc. He became truly excited about life again, instead of wallowing in misery of pain pill addiction living in his hometown with a bunch of losers that never left. I think a fresh start in a new location is the best way to escape the trappings of the social environment that bred the addiction in the first place.
I'm sure many would disagree with this, but I am also a firm believer that marijuana use can help treat opiate addiction. The sedative high of a heavy indica strain can provide some of the same zoned out relaxation effects that opiates provide with none of the deadly health risks. Marijuana has been used as medication to treat opiate addiction for centuries. A recent study released a couple months ago showed that deaths from opiate overdoses had risen in practically every state in the country, except for those states that had legalized marijuana in some fashion -- where deaths of opiate overdoses had actually decreased. Perhaps you are trading one drug for another, but at least you are no longer taking a drug that can kill you at any moment and destroys your ability to live a normal life.
A year and a half after checking himself into rehab, my brother is now excelling at what is essentially his dream job working in the beer industry, coaching youth soccer after work, and also playing semi-pro soccer at a high level. I'm really proud of him.
Don't give up on your brother. Life can really change with the right help and a change in circumstances. I just hope your brother comes to the realization that he needs help. Good luck to you and your brother.
I'm not exactly sure how to convince someone to get help for addiction, as thankfully my brother eventually came to that realization on his own. I didn't realize how bad he had gotten because I was living at a distance in another state and he was good at hiding his addiction from everyone. His best friend in the world died from taking opiates a few years ago, but that apparently only pushed him deeper into opiate addiction to kill the pain. I think he eventually realized that opiates were running/destroying his life -- pushing him closer to his best friend's fate, and he decided that he wanted to make a change.
The best advice that I can give is to try to help your brother obtain a total change in life circumstances, including moving to another location far away from his current friend network at home. I think one of the hardest parts of escaping addiction is removing yourself from the social networks in which hard drugs are prevalent. It is so easy to fall back into the cycle when people around you are using. My brother moved out to Colorado with me about a month after he entering rehab. It was tough at first, but after a few months in which I think he struggled with withdrawal symptoms, he ultimately embraced a new life with a new job and new friends out in Colorado. He moved in with me last fall, and we started doing lots of fun stuff together - hiking, snowboarding, brewing beer, playing soccer, going to concerts, etc. He became truly excited about life again, instead of wallowing in misery of pain pill addiction living in his hometown with a bunch of losers that never left. I think a fresh start in a new location is the best way to escape the trappings of the social environment that bred the addiction in the first place.
I'm sure many would disagree with this, but I am also a firm believer that marijuana use can help treat opiate addiction. The sedative high of a heavy indica strain can provide some of the same zoned out relaxation effects that opiates provide with none of the deadly health risks. Marijuana has been used as medication to treat opiate addiction for centuries. A recent study released a couple months ago showed that deaths from opiate overdoses had risen in practically every state in the country, except for those states that had legalized marijuana in some fashion -- where deaths of opiate overdoses had actually decreased. Perhaps you are trading one drug for another, but at least you are no longer taking a drug that can kill you at any moment and destroys your ability to live a normal life.
A year and a half after checking himself into rehab, my brother is now excelling at what is essentially his dream job working in the beer industry, coaching youth soccer after work, and also playing semi-pro soccer at a high level. I'm really proud of him.
Don't give up on your brother. Life can really change with the right help and a change in circumstances. I just hope your brother comes to the realization that he needs help. Good luck to you and your brother.
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seahawk 17
Footballguy
Tough place to be. Good luck.
optionmaven
Footballguy
Just horrible. So sorry. Close friend lost his son on St. Patty's Day. Same age. I cried and wept at the wake uncontrollably. Could not phathom in my mind and heart losing a son so early. I had only met his son once. Sorry to Moobin too. I can't imagine the struggles and toiling in your heart at this point. What to do? Whats right? if you love your brother anything like I love mine, I would be devastated. He needs help, there is no doubt. He has to want it or it ain't going to happen. Such a brutal drug, you can kick coke, pills, weed, alcohol, and anthing else i have done or tried, but heroin will do you in faster than anything on this planet.My heart goes out to you and your wife.
cstu
Footballguy
fatness
Footballguy
A couple things:STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:
Rehab ain't what it used to be. People are pushed by health insurers into lesser steps of drug treatment than they likely need, and are required to fail those lesser levels before moving up to a higher level of treatment. Be prepared for a lot of frustration in this area, multiple times. Or be prepared for your brother or your mom or you or someone to shell out big money for what insurance won't cover.
Second, don't become the "overbearing angry guy" in the eyes of the family. He needs significant help, you see that, and you're right. But you don't want to lose support of mom or other family members by being too loud or aggressive about getting him out of the house. The last thing you need is your good intentions actually building sympathy for him among other family members because "He's trying, and steadymobbin is too hard on him". Addicts thrive on sympathy, and are the best in the world at getting it and manipulating it. So they can keep using drugs.
Third, you'll probably have to walk your mom through an understanding of how bad off he is, how he's screwed himself and the family, and she probably won't want to believe any of it at first. He'll fail at rehab a couple times, your mom's understanding of his problem will lag behind how bad the problem is. Be there for her. It's going to be really hard for her.
Last, if he's not stealing from the family yet he soon will be. See what you can do to help protect your mom's money, her possessions, without putting additional burdens on her.
This can be a minefield. And it can end in failure. Do everything you can do to keep the rest of the family together.
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
Text from my brother (from my moms cel) at 3am last night:
He's trying to make me feel guilty but it ain't workin.
Tyson is his supplier- he's your typical scumbag former/current pill head/heroin use who got put of prison last year and last I knew, lived in a halfway house. I went to high school with this guy and didn't even recognize him when I saw him last year.While I haven't been to close with him the past few years, I've attempted to have him over at every family function and at least a dozen times to play ball or go fishing, both things he loves to do and each and every time he no call no shows. Apologizes later.
He's trying to make me feel guilty but it ain't workin.
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STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
Agreed I can't be rough on him. Also know he's looking for sympathy , which is dripping from his text I posted. After last weekend my mom knows she has to be strong and so far is willing.
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I had a former employee who was a junkie. Too bad as he was a very bright kid and good worker when he wasn't using. He OD'd twice and was revived but that didn't stop him. I had some pretty in depth talks with him and told him if he didn't stop using he'd be dead sooner than later. He agreed and genuinely knew it would happen but continued to relapse. I haven't seen him in a while but last I heard he found another job and was sober at least temporarily. I know it won't last. He'll most likely end up dead.
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SIDA!
Footballguy
STEADY
I have known hundreds of addicts in my time. My parents were drugs addicts (heroin and speed) and incarcerated in prison while I was a kid for a couple of different stretches. So, I speak from very personal experience.
Right now, your brother is dead. And he may never come back. That is just the sad truth. I scanned the thread and someone mentioned him as being a Zombie. It is so true. There is really very little you can do to coax an addict into getting their life straightened out. Even those who want to, genuinely want to, will fail. Your brother as you knew him is gone. When you speak to him, try to encourage him, cajole, manipulate, whatever it is, to get him better and on the right track, you are not speaking to him.
From what I have read, he hasn't hit rock bottom. He may never hit rock bottom or his rock bottom may be death. Unless and until he wants to get better, you are going to go through this endless cycle of bull####, carnage and turmoil in the the lives of you and your family. At some point, you all have to come to terms as to where you are going to cut your losses. You all need to get to a point where you feel comfortable saying, "I did everything I could to help him."
Once you get to that point and he is still doing his thing, you have to cut him off and excise him out of your life.
I will tell you this, as bleak as it seems, there is hope. I have seen addicts turn their life around and live sober. It can happen. But I do not see any signs that your brother is anywhere close to being near a turning point for the better.
I sincerely wish you and your family the best. It is going to get worse before it gets better, if ever.
I have known hundreds of addicts in my time. My parents were drugs addicts (heroin and speed) and incarcerated in prison while I was a kid for a couple of different stretches. So, I speak from very personal experience.
Right now, your brother is dead. And he may never come back. That is just the sad truth. I scanned the thread and someone mentioned him as being a Zombie. It is so true. There is really very little you can do to coax an addict into getting their life straightened out. Even those who want to, genuinely want to, will fail. Your brother as you knew him is gone. When you speak to him, try to encourage him, cajole, manipulate, whatever it is, to get him better and on the right track, you are not speaking to him.
From what I have read, he hasn't hit rock bottom. He may never hit rock bottom or his rock bottom may be death. Unless and until he wants to get better, you are going to go through this endless cycle of bull####, carnage and turmoil in the the lives of you and your family. At some point, you all have to come to terms as to where you are going to cut your losses. You all need to get to a point where you feel comfortable saying, "I did everything I could to help him."
Once you get to that point and he is still doing his thing, you have to cut him off and excise him out of your life.
I will tell you this, as bleak as it seems, there is hope. I have seen addicts turn their life around and live sober. It can happen. But I do not see any signs that your brother is anywhere close to being near a turning point for the better.
I sincerely wish you and your family the best. It is going to get worse before it gets better, if ever.
