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Liz Cheney: The House GOP leadership has enabled white nationalism, white supremacy, and anti-semitism. (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Juxtatarot
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parasaurolophus
Footballguy
House GOP leadership shouldn't do anything differently regarding immigration. They should do something about guns.
The shooting in buffalo wasn't caused by wanting to stop people flooding across our border.
It was caused by a terrible person and a gun that he shouldn't have been able to own for many reasons.
The shooting in buffalo wasn't caused by wanting to stop people flooding across our border.
It was caused by a terrible person and a gun that he shouldn't have been able to own for many reasons.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
What people are doing right now regarding the buffalo incident is actually an example of politicizing a tragedy.
I usually think the claim is bogus. When somebody that shouldn't own a gun shoots up a place it is perfectly reasonable to talk about common sense gun reforms. That isn't politicizing a tragedy.
When somebody shoots up a grocery store and killed black Americans and now people are blaming talk about immigration, yeah sorry, that is politicizing a tragedy. That is attempting to use this shooting to silence critics of our border policies and practices.
I usually think the claim is bogus. When somebody that shouldn't own a gun shoots up a place it is perfectly reasonable to talk about common sense gun reforms. That isn't politicizing a tragedy.
When somebody shoots up a grocery store and killed black Americans and now people are blaming talk about immigration, yeah sorry, that is politicizing a tragedy. That is attempting to use this shooting to silence critics of our border policies and practices.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
I am pretty sure she is arguing that anti immigration rhetoric has led to those outcomes. Open to other suggestions, but that's how I read it.
The motivation of the shooter brings context to the discussion on immigration in this instance. He made it clear he believes the replacement theory is extinguishing white dominance in this country and he acted on that belief. Where the shooter pulled his beliefs from is fair game,imo.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
This makes zero sense. The great replacement theory isn't about black Americans.
Crazy racist with a rifle kills black Americans.
Same crazy guy also believes that immigrants are replacing Americans.
Therefore talk about immigrants led to crazy guy with rifle killing black Americans?
If he shot up a target in a Hispanic neighborhood this would make sense.
I love that this 19 y/o was supposed to process what / who Tucker is talking about with "replacement" --does it ####### matter!?
Grace Under Pressure
Footballguy
Good for Liz Cheney, but I'm not sure this is correct. All of the House GOP leadership is on record condemning white supremacy and related terrorism in the wake of the Buffalo tragedy, aren't they? And certainly beforehand, their denouncement of white supremacy related terrorism which the FBI director stated was the #1 threat to America is clearly on record, is it not?
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
"The House GOP leadership has enabled white nationalism, white supremacy, and anti-semitism. History has taught us that what begins with words ends in far worse. @GOP leaders must renounce and reject these views and those who hold them."
This is such a non-sensical position. Assuming for the sake of argument that GOP is not against white supremacy. Even if the GOP had denounced white supremacy, the shooting in Buffalo would have still happened. As the great Alfred Pennyworth said, “...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” It's just a sound bite from a politician. It isn't a solution for an issue, and it certainly isn't going help.
This is such a non-sensical position. Assuming for the sake of argument that GOP is not against white supremacy. Even if the GOP had denounced white supremacy, the shooting in Buffalo would have still happened. As the great Alfred Pennyworth said, “...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” It's just a sound bite from a politician. It isn't a solution for an issue, and it certainly isn't going help.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Toby2ElectricBugaloo
Footballguy
Liz Cheney: Water is wet
Toby2ElectricBugaloo
Footballguy
What about when people leave out the fact that the killer wrote a manifesto in which he explicitly declared the reasons for his actions, and those reasons happen to line up perfectly with both previous mass shooters and conservative rhetoric? What should we make of such a glaring omission in describing a horrific and violent act?
Desert_Power
Footballguy
I can't seem to find the actual manifesto, but I recall seeing it mentioned he specifically mentioned birth rates of blacks versus whites.
Not to be that guy, but do you have a source for this? I've seen this claim a few times but haven't seen a definitive source. I find it a bit tough to believe and it seems like one of those things that gets thrown out there in all the finger pointing. Not that I am trying to blame him on Republicans, cause he's clearly an extremist regardless of his political views. I just find it unlikely that someone that targets black people, complains about critical race theory and espouses support for replacement theory would be considered left of center.
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urbanhack
Fight The Power!
The bottom line is they are worried about whites becoming the minority in America. Regardless of the different categories of brown people...it's the aggregate of brown people vs. Whites.
Max Power
Footballguy
Here is a link to the manifesto from Glen Greenwald's Substack. This is in full context.
https://emilkirkegaard.dk/en/wp-content/uploads/spree-killer-manifesto.pdf
This is a link to Tom Elliot's twitter review of the 180 page manifesto, so it might be skewed a bit.
https://twitter.com/tomselliott/status/1526206936328314880?s=20&t=kMtKNe7jYHqL_PhHa73QZg
Tom Elliott
@tomselliott
Buffalo killer says his views evolved from “communist ideology” and says he now "falls in the mild-moderate authoritarian left category, and I would prefer to be called a populist”
ETA:https://twitter.com/tomselliott/status/1526169158911672320?s=20&t=kMtKNe7jYHqL_PhHa73QZg
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Stealthycat
Footballguy
GOP hasn't enabled any of that
Desert_Power
Footballguy
The full quote is:
Did you always hold these views?
When I was 12 I was deep into communist ideology, talk to anyone from my old highschool and ask about me and you will hear that. From age 15 to 18 however, I consistently moved farther to the right. On the political compass I fall in the mild-moderate authoritarian left category, and I would prefer to be called a populist.
What are your views?
I would prefer to call myself a populist. But you can call me an ethno-nationalist
eco-fascist national socialist if you want, I wouldn’t disagree with you
So the claims that he self-describes as "left of center" are just completely misleading.
Did you always hold these views?
When I was 12 I was deep into communist ideology, talk to anyone from my old highschool and ask about me and you will hear that. From age 15 to 18 however, I consistently moved farther to the right. On the political compass I fall in the mild-moderate authoritarian left category, and I would prefer to be called a populist.
What are your views?
I would prefer to call myself a populist. But you can call me an ethno-nationalist
eco-fascist national socialist if you want, I wouldn’t disagree with you
So the claims that he self-describes as "left of center" are just completely misleading.
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Max Power
Footballguy
I'll take the hit for the left of center comment. Thats how I heard it reported. Is mid-moderate authoritarian left that different than left of center?
urbanhack
Fight The Power!
I don't give a #### what he proclaims to be. Just read the first three pages and that will tell you all you need to know about this sick ####.
Max Power
Footballguy
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
His views on topics other than his racism and anti-semitism are completely irrelevant.
Desert_Power
Footballguy
I don't feel like posting more excerpts but, since Max Power linked to it, it looks like page 12 covers this line of questioning. Basically saying that he hates immigrants, jews, and blacks but has to start somewhere.
Max Power
Footballguy
But yet Liz Cheny knows GOP leadership is to blame for this views on those two topics? This is exactly why Liz's comments were bad.
Thanks for posting. I was looking for this and appreciate the link.
He seems pretty all over the place. To the question "Are you right-wing?", he answers "Depending in the definition, sure". Then answers the same to the question "Are you left wing?". He also definitively says that he is fascist and supports neo-nazism. So I think saying he's self proclaimed "left of center" is pretty misleading. Quite frankly, you could pin almost any ideology on him based in those answers.
Desert_Power
Footballguy
Not sure how familiar you are with the political compass site. That site basically classifies everything to the right of Bernie as right so it is a bit odd. There really few examples of what he is testing in modern American politics. Looks like he would be a bit to the left of Marie Le Pen. Maybe close to Chavez looking at historical parallels? An odd bird for sure.
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Max Power
Footballguy
I forgot to link Greenwald's actual substack which is a good but long read. One of the key takeaways was that's its wrong to blame leaders for the actions of others as every ideology has spawned violence at some point.
The Demented - and Selective - Game of Instantly Blaming Political Opponents For Mass Shootings (substack.com) https://greenwald.substack.com/p/the-demented-and-selective-game-of?s=w
The Demented - and Selective - Game of Instantly Blaming Political Opponents For Mass Shootings (substack.com) https://greenwald.substack.com/p/the-demented-and-selective-game-of?s=w
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Oops, spelled Cheney wrong.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
You mean the manifesto where he explicitly says he wants to part of conservatism, that it is corporatism in disguise, that he's open to being called a socialist? The manifesto with an entire section devoted to attacking conservatives? The manifesto where he says his views evolved from communist ideology and that he now falls in to the mild-moderate authoritarian left? THAT manifesto?
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Max Power
Footballguy
I guess I'm confused on why she said it and what exactly the house GOP leaders did to enable white nationalism, white supremacy, and anti-semitism? And how it ties to Buffalo.
Also why 30 FBGs agree with her...
Toby2ElectricBugaloo
Footballguy
Sure, man. Whatever you gotta tell yourself in order to ignore the thing that is incredibly obvious to everyone else, I guess.
Toby2ElectricBugaloo
Footballguy
One link to respond to two posts! Now that's efficiency.
Glad I could help you out and clarify this for you.
General Malaise
Footballguy
I don't understand....why would white people be worried about becoming a minority in this great country of ours? Is it hard being a minority in the USA or something?
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Kinzinger called out Stefanik, Taylor-Greene and Cawthorn, in particular, as being supporters of replacement theory. I think the idea is the GOP has tolerated certain Reps more than they should.
Max Power
Footballguy
Thanks, although I find that theory and link to GOP leaders to be super weak.
Max Power
Footballguy
I think the same can be said about both parties. This "replacement theory" is so obscure to me, I've never heard it before.
Max Power
Footballguy
yes, a baseless conspiracy theory about immigration that was loosely referenced caused some teenager to drive to Buffalo and target black folks while ignoring the 180 pages of crazy #### in his manifesto = GOP's fault.
Toby2ElectricBugaloo
Footballguy
I assume you meant you found the link to House GOP leaders to be super weak. I could buy that. As far as McCarthy goes his sin is more that he tolerates white nationalism in his caucus rather than espousing it himself, so I guess it would be a question of whether you think that's enough.
Stefanik (the #3 in the House), on the other hand, has no such defense. She's gone all in on replacement theory.
I haven't done a lot of research so I can't say the extent to which Cheney's comments are accurate with respect to the Committe minority leaders. Took me five seconds to find this for the first one I picked, though, so I'm inclined to think it is accurate all the way down the line.
Did you miss all the chanting in Charlottesville? You know, the chanting done by those "fine people" with the khakis and tiki torches.
General Malaise
Footballguy
Is that the one where all the fine people were chanting over and over "THE JEWS WILL NOT REPLACE US"? Yeah, hard to gather where the "Replacement Theory" might have come from.....
Well, the article was more a timeline of episodes, statements from numerous GOP members that supports Liz's claim.
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