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Looting in Missouri after cops shoot 18 year old (3 Viewers)

Olaf said:
timschochet said:
tommyGunZ said:
timschochet said:
St. Louis Bob said:
Native said:
Looting the dollar store

https://vine.co/v/O1XnPZtLJPe
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I helped set up and eventually ran that store after quitting college.So mother####ing sad. #### all you trying to make a political point. Just imagine for a minute this happening in your neighborhood. ########s. :(
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I'm sorry dude. But these animals are not trying to make any political point. They're just using the announcement as an excuse to loot. They're scum.
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You're better than this Tim.
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No you're better than this tommy. When you defend the looters in this situation you're insulting the people who protest peacefully.
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This is awesome! It's like a mini-riot within the riot. Fight the Power, Tim!
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Can we please stop all this white-guilt on white-guilt violence?

 
HellToupee said:
timschochet said:
Loan Sharks said:
Holy crap I am not lying. The just cut to a local protest in down town Phoenix. No kidding 10 white people and 2 black dudes with poster board signs.

Perhaps the saddest protest I have ever seen.
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:lol: Reminds me of my college years at UC Irvine. Reagan invaded Grenada and there were 3,000 protestors at Cal Berkeley the next morning. At UCI 3 people showed up.
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What about your days in the zoot suit riots
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Zoot Suit RiotsThrow back a bottle of beer

 
Pretty much what was expected. Yet somehow Tim manages to be surprised and wonders how this can be, while at the same time can "understand" it.

No wonder the world laughs at us.

 
Really hope SLB and others in the area are staying safe. Ferguson looks to be a terrifying disaster.

As far as Oakland goes, just came back from where the protests originated. There are a dozen people - at most - loitering near city hall. Most of them are white. They look like they biked down from Berkeley to protest GMOs. There might be something more organized come the weekend, but this is shockingly and apparently really a limited issue in this area. There's a helicopter circling nearby, but that's just to follow around the couple dozen protesters. I realize that might sound like something for those not familiar with this area, but it's not. Folks are still wandering through the streets. Businesses still open. Construction happening. No damage to the businesses. No cops to be found. Trayvon Martin, occupy wall street, Giants winning the WS...these were riots/protests. This is stunningly silent (relatively speaking).

 
mcintyre1 said:
Henry Ford said:
mcintyre1 said:
rick6668 said:
mcintyre1 said:
Saint Louis Public Radio uploading the evidence that was released as they get it.
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Thought this was interesting.Witness 40 Journal

http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/1370734-witness-40-journal-entry.html

The cop just stood there dang if that kid didn't start running right at that cop like a football player head down.
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Also kind of super racist in the first section.
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Nothing weird at all about the random extremely racist guy who keeps a diary about driving to Ferguson so he can start thinking of black people as people and stop calling them the n word being a witness to this.
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Anything can happen, I guess, but I also thought of that while noting that that this random racist person's journal entry is pretty spot on for what Wilson said happened in his statement to St Louis County Police (including # of shots in groups, Brown 'charging' him). Not saying I think it will happen, but things would turn real bad if that was the main corroborating witness and the witness was somehow eventually linked to Wilson.
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There's plenty more

http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/1370768-interview-witness-10.html

 
So, could have these store owners legally picked these guys off when they entered their stores? Would they have been allowed to protect their wares?

I'm curious, as it appears that the police had no interest in protecting personal property in this or the previous Ferguson riots.

 
BassNBrew said:
Henry Ford said:
BassNBrew said:
dickey moe said:
Where the hell is the National Guard?
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Ask Obama.
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Or, you know, the governor of Missouri. Depending on your grasp of the National Guard.
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The Democrat in Obama's pocket?

Bottom line is Obama had more time to prepare of this than Bush did for Katrina. Both screwed the pooch.
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FEMA gets involved in natural disasters. How is this situation a federal government responsibility? The guy gets criticized for overreach in his executive powers on one hand and now for not getting involved in something that is not his responsibility on the other. Which is it?

 
Sand said:
So, could have these store owners legally picked these guys off when they entered their stores? Would they have been allowed to protect their wares?

I'm curious, as it appears that the police had no interest in protecting personal property in this or the previous Ferguson riots.
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The general rule has been that you cannot defend property with deadly force. Over the past decade or two there has been a movement to stand your ground, and castle doctrines, allowing you greater defense, and in several states that includes now the right to defend commercial property with deadly force. Still this is, I believe without checking it with research right now, to be the minority position. As for the law in Missouri, we need a Missouri lawyer or someone with competent research skills to cite us a statute to be certain.

If I were a store owner I would say I was at the store to protect my property and had the gun to potentially protect myself. I would say that the viciousness of the attack on my property caused me to fear that I was next. Fearing for my very life I then shot the looter and potential murderer after giving them several warnings to get back away from me while I am on my property. It was not about property, but just about going home to my family after I got in over my head.

 
A St. Louis County grand jury on Monday decided not to indict Ferguson, Missouri, police Officer Darren Wilson in the August killing of teenager Michael Brown. The decision wasnt a surprise leaks from the grand jury had led most observers to conclude an indictment was unlikely but it was unusual.

Grand juries nearly always decide to indict.

Or at least, they nearly always do so in cases that dont involve police officers.

Former New York state Chief Judge Sol Wachtler famously remarked that a prosecutor could persuade a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich. The data suggests he was barely exaggerating: According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. attorneys prosecuted 162,000 federal cases in 2010, the most recent year for which we have data. Grand juries declined to return an indictment in 11 of them.

Wilsons case was heard in state court, not federal, so the numbers arent directly comparable. Unlike in federal court, most states, including Missouri, allow prosecutors to bring charges via a preliminary hearing in front of a judge instead of through a grand jury indictment. That means many routine cases never go before a grand jury. Still, legal experts agree that, at any level, it is extremely rare for prosecutors to fail to win an indictment.

If the prosecutor wants an indictment and doesnt get one, something has gone horribly wrong, said Andrew D. Leipold, a University of Illinois law professor who has written critically about grand juries. It just doesnt happen.

Cases involving police shootings, however, appear to be an exception. As my colleague Reuben Fischer-Baum has written, we dont have good data on officer-involved killings. But newspaper accounts suggest, grand juries frequently decline to indict law-enforcement officials. A recent Houston Chronicle investigation found that police have been nearly immune from criminal charges in shootings in Houston and other large cities in recent years. In Harris County, Texas, for example, grand juries havent indicted a Houston police officer since 2004; in Dallas, grand juries reviewed 81 shootings between 2008 and 2012 and returned just one indictment. Separate research by Bowling Green State University criminologist Philip Stinson has found that officers are rarely charged in on-duty killings, although it didnt look at grand jury indictments specifically.

There are at least three possible explanations as to why grand juries are so much less likely to indict police officers. The first is juror bias: Perhaps jurors tend to trust police officer and believe their decisions to use violence are justified, even when the evidence says otherwise. The second is prosecutorial bias: Perhaps prosecutors, who depend on police as they work on criminal cases, tend to present a less compelling case against officers, whether consciously or unconsciously.

The third possible explanation is more benign. Ordinarily, prosecutors only bring a case if they think they can get an indictment. But in high-profile cases such as police shootings, they may feel public pressure to bring charges even if they think they have a weak case.

The prosecutor in this case didnt really have a choice about whether he would bring this to a grand jury, Ben Trachtenberg, a University of Missouri law professor, said of the Brown case. Its almost impossible to imagine a prosecutor saying the evidence is so scanty that Im not even going to bring this before a grand jury.

The explanations arent mutually exclusive. Its possible, for example, that the evidence against Wilson was relatively weak, but that jurors were also more likely than normal to give him the benefit of the doubt. St. Louis County prosecutor Robert McCulloch has said he plans to release the evidence collected in the case, which would give the public a chance to evaluate whether justice was served here. But beyond Ferguson, we wont know without better data why grand juries are so reluctant to indict police officers.
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http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/ferguson-michael-brown-indictment-darren-wilson/

 
Absolutely disgusting watching law enforcement stand in line with their thumbs up their asses while businesses burn.

 
Raider Nation said:
A St. Louis County grand jury on Monday decided not to indict Ferguson, Missouri, police Officer Darren Wilson in the August killing of teenager Michael Brown. The decision wasnt a surprise leaks from the grand jury had led most observers to conclude an indictment was unlikely but it was unusual.

Grand juries nearly always decide to indict.

Or at least, they nearly always do so in cases that dont involve police officers.

Former New York state Chief Judge Sol Wachtler famously remarked that a prosecutor could persuade a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich. The data suggests he was barely exaggerating: According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. attorneys prosecuted 162,000 federal cases in 2010, the most recent year for which we have data. Grand juries declined to return an indictment in 11 of them.

Wilsons case was heard in state court, not federal, so the numbers arent directly comparable. Unlike in federal court, most states, including Missouri, allow prosecutors to bring charges via a preliminary hearing in front of a judge instead of through a grand jury indictment. That means many routine cases never go before a grand jury. Still, legal experts agree that, at any level, it is extremely rare for prosecutors to fail to win an indictment.

If the prosecutor wants an indictment and doesnt get one, something has gone horribly wrong, said Andrew D. Leipold, a University of Illinois law professor who has written critically about grand juries. It just doesnt happen.

Cases involving police shootings, however, appear to be an exception. As my colleague Reuben Fischer-Baum has written, we dont have good data on officer-involved killings. But newspaper accounts suggest, grand juries frequently decline to indict law-enforcement officials. A recent Houston Chronicle investigation found that police have been nearly immune from criminal charges in shootings in Houston and other large cities in recent years. In Harris County, Texas, for example, grand juries havent indicted a Houston police officer since 2004; in Dallas, grand juries reviewed 81 shootings between 2008 and 2012 and returned just one indictment. Separate research by Bowling Green State University criminologist Philip Stinson has found that officers are rarely charged in on-duty killings, although it didnt look at grand jury indictments specifically.

There are at least three possible explanations as to why grand juries are so much less likely to indict police officers. The first is juror bias: Perhaps jurors tend to trust police officer and believe their decisions to use violence are justified, even when the evidence says otherwise. The second is prosecutorial bias: Perhaps prosecutors, who depend on police as they work on criminal cases, tend to present a less compelling case against officers, whether consciously or unconsciously.

The third possible explanation is more benign. Ordinarily, prosecutors only bring a case if they think they can get an indictment. But in high-profile cases such as police shootings, they may feel public pressure to bring charges even if they think they have a weak case.

The prosecutor in this case didnt really have a choice about whether he would bring this to a grand jury, Ben Trachtenberg, a University of Missouri law professor, said of the Brown case. Its almost impossible to imagine a prosecutor saying the evidence is so scanty that Im not even going to bring this before a grand jury.

The explanations arent mutually exclusive. Its possible, for example, that the evidence against Wilson was relatively weak, but that jurors were also more likely than normal to give him the benefit of the doubt. St. Louis County prosecutor Robert McCulloch has said he plans to release the evidence collected in the case, which would give the public a chance to evaluate whether justice was served here. But beyond Ferguson, we wont know without better data why grand juries are so reluctant to indict police officers.
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http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/ferguson-michael-brown-indictment-darren-wilson/
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Damn. That's stunning.

 
Wooderson said:
SIDA! said:
Absolutely disgusting watching law enforcement stand in line with their thumbs up their asses while businesses burn.
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What the hell are they suppose to do?

Arrest the fire?
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Are you seriously watching the same video?

I am watching dozens of officers standing in formation with basically an empty street in front of them and instead of moving forward, advancing and securing more area and controlling an area where businesses are burning...they just stand there.

They swear to protect and serve. So...go ####### do it. They had weeks to prepare for this bull####.

 
SIDA! said:
Wooderson said:
SIDA! said:
Absolutely disgusting watching law enforcement stand in line with their thumbs up their asses while businesses burn.
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What the hell are they suppose to do?Arrest the fire?
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Are you seriously watching the same video?I am watching dozens of officers standing in formation with basically an empty street in front of them and instead of moving forward, advancing and securing more area and controlling an area where businesses are burning...they just stand there.

They swear to protect and serve. So...go ####### do it. They had weeks to prepare for this bull####.
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You do understand that law enforcement officers are not the same thing as firefighters, right?

 
I'm heartbroken for those small-business owners who get up every day and try to make a living, and their stores are now ashes for no good reason.

 
SIDA! said:
Wooderson said:
SIDA! said:
Absolutely disgusting watching law enforcement stand in line with their thumbs up their asses while businesses burn.
Click to expand...
What the hell are they suppose to do?Arrest the fire?
Click to expand...
Are you seriously watching the same video?I am watching dozens of officers standing in formation with basically an empty street in front of them and instead of moving forward, advancing and securing more area and controlling an area where businesses are burning...they just stand there.

They swear to protect and serve. So...go ####### do it. They had weeks to prepare for this bull####.
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No way I would send the fire department in with shots being fired.

The building is a loss whats the point. The firemen can take care of more pressing matters.

 
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