Looting in Missouri after cops shoot 18 year old (2 Viewers)

[Gary Coal Man]

Right now the only thing that matters is that Wilson shot Brown from a distance of 30 feet, and Brown was unarmed.

We don't know that Wilson shot Brown from thirty feet away. That thirty feet estimate was provided by Dorian Johnson. The autopsy neither confirmed nor dismissed the thirty feet estimate.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/20/missouri-cop-was-badly-beaten-before-shooting-michael-brown-says-source/ I'm calling it. Wilson was getting the snot beat out of him and shot him. Case closed. Stop defending this D bag.

have you met MAX THRESHOLD?

 

[Christo]

Right now the only thing that matters is that Wilson shot Brown from a distance of 30 feet, and Brown was unarmed.

We don't know that Wilson shot Brown from thirty feet away. That thirty feet estimate was provided by Dorian Johnson. The autopsy neither confirmed nor dismissed the thirty feet estimate.

But tim will latch onto that single "fact" like a dog with a bone until proven wrong.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Has anyone mentioned this?

The source claims that there is "solid proof" that there was a struggle between Brown and Wilson for the policeman’s firearm, resulting in the gun going off...

- From the Fox link above.

Question: If they find a bullet hole in the squad car does that corroborate the cop's story?

 

[[icon]]

The injury to Wilson's face makes it more likely, at least to me, that he committed a crime here.

My likely scenario: Wilson stops Brown and Johnson. A scuffle occurs. Brown hits Wilson in the face, causing the injury. The two kids take off running. Wilson fires his gun. The first shot either misses or wings Brown in the arm. Brown turns around, and either raises his arms in surrender or does not, just turns around. (Not sure what happened to Johnson at this point.)

And here is where the crime is committed by Wilson: in fear or rage or both, Wilson does not ask Brown to surrender. He does not instruct Brown to lie down on the ground. Instead, he fires his remaining bullets at Wilson. And that's murder.

There's probably no way to prove it, but that's what I think probably happened.

Why do you give the benefit of the doubt to the guy who just robbed a convenience store and attacked a cop instead of the cop?

There is a reason we named our team "Tim's White Guilt" in the FFA's Timleeg

 

[Greggity]

The injury to Wilson's face makes it more likely, at least to me, that he committed a crime here.

My likely scenario: Wilson stops Brown and Johnson. A scuffle occurs. Brown hits Wilson in the face, causing the injury. The two kids take off running. Wilson fires his gun. The first shot either misses or wings Brown in the arm. Brown turns around, and either raises his arms in surrender or does not, just turns around. (Not sure what happened to Johnson at this point.)

And here is where the crime is committed by Wilson: in fear or rage or both, Wilson does not ask Brown to surrender. He does not instruct Brown to lie down on the ground. Instead, he fires his remaining bullets at Wilson. And that's murder.

There's probably no way to prove it, but that's what I think probably happened.

Why do you give the benefit of the doubt to the guy who just robbed a convenience store and attacked a cop instead of the cop?

There is a reason we named our team "Tim's White Guilt" in the FFA's Timleeg

LOL

 

[PatsWillWin]

Maybe I am oversimplifying things, but the simplest explanation, in my mind, is:

Cop yells at kids, kids tell them to #### off, cop rolls up next to them, door slam/scuffle/whatever results in cop getting thumped in the head, kids run, cop is pissed and was "attacked", cop shoots. (and shoots, and shoots, and shoots).

Yeah, that's kinda where I am, too.

But the kid wasn't running away when he was shot.

 

[[icon]]

if some young punk is hitting me. But that doesn't justify shooting him.

Actually... a much larger man assaulting an officer does justify the officer shooting him.

Tim in this thread reminds me of a 3yo kid who spent a litttttle too long on the sit in spin, then leapt up and tried to sprint to what be believes to the the correct conclusion.

 

[financewonk]

are you guys for real?I'm not talking about practical choices. I'm talking about charging a cop firing bullets at you. Is it possible? Yes. Is it likely? #### no.

Multiple shots to me adds credibility to the police officer's version. He tried to fire a couple shots to disable and finally had to put this 6-4/250 lb "Kid" down with a shot to the head.

Apparently Brown thought the cop was hot on his trail even though the officer didn't know he had robbed a convenience store. Brown shoved the officer or met the officer at the door of his patrol car and the two even wrestled inside the car if you believe some of the stories. It sounds like the gun might have gone off in the car, perhaps even hitting Brown and then he started running fearing for his life, it's possible the officer shot him again to stop him, now Brown feels he is going to be killed and fighting for his own life decided to try and rush the officer and that's when the final shot or shots were fired.

Not saying what I just wrote is true but the officer's story corroborates well with the multiple shots fired, at least IMO.

Excellent hypothesis as to what happened. I would just note that Wilson's alleged version is that Brown made threatening statements before advancing towards him. Regardless, I find your scenario to be much more realistic than those I've read here or heard on, say, MSNBC, e.g., a murderous or enraged Wilson shot Brown in retribution for the beating he sustained.

 

[[icon]]

What I think is the guy was walking down the street, the cops yelled at him, he turned around and tried to sell them a KitKat bar. Of course, the officer bought a Kit Kat bar thinking "mmm I like Kit Kats". However, as the boy was walking away (with his hard earned new dollar), the officer took a bite only to find his Kit Kat was stale.

Here's where it gets a little confusing. I think the officer leapt out of the car and ran after the boy yelling "Hey I think you accidentally gave me a stale Kit Kat Bar", but the boy heard "Damn you black thug, I'm going to kill you". So the boy turned around with a magical "single use" ray gun from the planet Zoltan (which he had received in trade for a previous Kit Kat bar) and fired at the officer. The officer, having actually been a stand-in for Jackie Chan (little known prior work experience the STLPD has been maliciously witholding from the public), was able to nimbly duck the laser beam shot like Keanu Reaves in that Matrix movie.

At this point, I think the officer was unfortunately NOT aware this was a misunderstanding (perhaps malicious sale of stale Kit Kats in addition to attempted murder), had but one course of action. I think it's prudent to note that it cannot be reasonably expected the officer KNOW this ray gun was of the Zoltan single-use variety from a distance of 30 feetmeters, and would vaporize in seconds. Nope, he probably thought it was a NORMAL ray gun and another shot was likely imminent, and was forced to return fire in self defense.

Unfortunately, when the boy collapsed all of his Kit Kat's scattered around the pavement as the single-use Zoltan ray-gun vaporized. Now, it's a hot summer day and after laying out the police tape I imagine the cops were hungry. That's hard work in those conditions... so I'm guessing they probably ate up the leftover Kit Kats without thinking about their role as crucial evidence in my theory.

There's been pretty much nothing in the 29,201 eyewitness accounts that disproves my theory.

Still nothing that disproves my theory, therefore it must be true.

 

[Henry Ford]

are you guys for real?

I'm not talking about practical choices. I'm talking about charging a cop firing bullets at you. Is it possible? Yes. Is it likely? #### no.

Multiple shots to me adds credibility to the police officer's version. He tried to fire a couple shots to disable and finally had to put this 6-4/250 lb "Kid" down with a shot to the head. Apparently Brown thought the cop was hot on his trail even though the officer didn't know he had robbed a convenience store. Brown shoved the officer or met the officer at the door of his patrol car and the two even wrestled inside the car if you believe some of the stories. It sounds like the gun might have gone off in the car, perhaps even hitting Brown and then he started running fearing for his life, it's possible the officer shot him again to stop him, now Brown feels he is going to be killed and fighting for his own life decided to try and rush the officer and that's when the final shot or shots were fired.

Not saying what I just wrote is true but the officer's story corroborates well with the multiple shots fired, at least IMO.

Has anyone worked out how long it took to call in the actual shooting yet?

 

[Henry Ford]

Maybe I am oversimplifying things, but the simplest explanation, in my mind, is:

Cop yells at kids, kids tell them to #### off, cop rolls up next to them, door slam/scuffle/whatever results in cop getting thumped in the head, kids run, cop is pissed and was "attacked", cop shoots. (and shoots, and shoots, and shoots).

Yeah, that's kinda where I am, too.

But the kid wasn't running away when he was shot.

Which time he was shot? And how do you know?

 

[msommer]

are you guys for real?I'm not talking about practical choices. I'm talking about charging a cop firing bullets at you. Is it possible? Yes. Is it likely? #### no.

Multiple shots to me adds credibility to the police officer's version. He tried to fire a couple shots to disable and finally had to put this 6-4/250 lb "Kid" down with a shot to the head.

Apparently Brown thought the cop was hot on his trail even though the officer didn't know he had robbed a convenience store. Brown shoved the officer or met the officer at the door of his patrol car and the two even wrestled inside the car if you believe some of the stories. It sounds like the gun might have gone off in the car, perhaps even hitting Brown and then he started running fearing for his life, it's possible the officer shot him again to stop him, now Brown feels he is going to be killed and fighting for his own life decided to try and rush the officer and that's when the final shot or shots were fired.

Not saying what I just wrote is true but the officer's story corroborates well with the multiple shots fired, at least IMO.

Excellent hypothesis as to what happened. I would just note that Wilson's version is that Brown made threatening statements before advancing towards him. Regardless, I find your scenario to be much more realistic than those I've read here or heard on, say, MSNBC, e.g., a murderous or enraged Wilson shot Brown in retribution for the beating he sustained.

Link to Wilson's actual statement, please

Not 'unnamed sources'

Not 'allegedly wife's best friend' calling to a radio show

But actual statement

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Maybe I am oversimplifying things, but the simplest explanation, in my mind, is:

Cop yells at kids, kids tell them to #### off, cop rolls up next to them, door slam/scuffle/whatever results in cop getting thumped in the head, kids run, cop is pissed and was "attacked", cop shoots. (and shoots, and shoots, and shoots).

Yeah, that's kinda where I am, too.

But the kid wasn't running away when he was shot.

Which time he was shot? And how do you know?

Why is it so hard for people to imagine that Brown was running from the cop and that the cop shot at Brown and he realized he wasnt out running a bullet ,turned around and was then shot in the front of his body and head?

 

[msommer]

Maybe I am oversimplifying things, but the simplest explanation, in my mind, is:

Cop yells at kids, kids tell them to #### off, cop rolls up next to them, door slam/scuffle/whatever results in cop getting thumped in the head, kids run, cop is pissed and was "attacked", cop shoots. (and shoots, and shoots, and shoots).

Yeah, that's kinda where I am, too.

But the kid wasn't running away when he was shot.

Which time he was shot? And how do you know?

Why is it so hard for people to imagine that Brown was running from the cop and that the cop shot at Brown and he realized he wasnt out running a bullet ,turned around and was then shot in the front of his body and head?

It doesn't fit wit their view of the world, perhaps

 

[Fennis]

Maybe he used the cigar box.

They were Swisher Sweets. I don't even think you can mildly annoy someone with the packaging from those. Paper cut?

he could have smoked them. The smell would be annoying

 

[PatsWillWin]

Maybe I am oversimplifying things, but the simplest explanation, in my mind, is:

Cop yells at kids, kids tell them to #### off, cop rolls up next to them, door slam/scuffle/whatever results in cop getting thumped in the head, kids run, cop is pissed and was "attacked", cop shoots. (and shoots, and shoots, and shoots).

Yeah, that's kinda where I am, too.

But the kid wasn't running away when he was shot.

Which time he was shot? And how do you know?

Well, obviously I feel like I'm stepping into a trap here, but all six times, and I know because the autopsy showed that all of the entry wounds were in the front of Brown's body. So unless he was running away backwards, I don't see how this can be the case.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Maybe I am oversimplifying things, but the simplest explanation, in my mind, is:

Cop yells at kids, kids tell them to #### off, cop rolls up next to them, door slam/scuffle/whatever results in cop getting thumped in the head, kids run, cop is pissed and was "attacked", cop shoots. (and shoots, and shoots, and shoots).

Yeah, that's kinda where I am, too.

But the kid wasn't running away when he was shot.

Which time he was shot? And how do you know?

Why is it so hard for people to imagine that Brown was running from the cop and that the cop shot at Brown and he realized he wasnt out running a bullet ,turned around and was then shot in the front of his body and head?

It doesn't fit wit their view of the world, perhaps

This whole event is a case of confirmation bias on a national scale.

 

[PatsWillWin]

Maybe I am oversimplifying things, but the simplest explanation, in my mind, is:

Cop yells at kids, kids tell them to #### off, cop rolls up next to them, door slam/scuffle/whatever results in cop getting thumped in the head, kids run, cop is pissed and was "attacked", cop shoots. (and shoots, and shoots, and shoots).

Yeah, that's kinda where I am, too.

But the kid wasn't running away when he was shot.

Which time he was shot? And how do you know?

Why is it so hard for people to imagine that Brown was running from the cop and that the cop shot at Brown and he realized he wasnt out running a bullet ,turned around and was then shot in the front of his body and head?

That's not hard for me to imagine. But that's not what the explanation I quoted says.

 

[financewonk]

are you guys for real?I'm not talking about practical choices. I'm talking about charging a cop firing bullets at you. Is it possible? Yes. Is it likely? #### no.

Multiple shots to me adds credibility to the police officer's version. He tried to fire a couple shots to disable and finally had to put this 6-4/250 lb "Kid" down with a shot to the head.

Apparently Brown thought the cop was hot on his trail even though the officer didn't know he had robbed a convenience store. Brown shoved the officer or met the officer at the door of his patrol car and the two even wrestled inside the car if you believe some of the stories. It sounds like the gun might have gone off in the car, perhaps even hitting Brown and then he started running fearing for his life, it's possible the officer shot him again to stop him, now Brown feels he is going to be killed and fighting for his own life decided to try and rush the officer and that's when the final shot or shots were fired.

Not saying what I just wrote is true but the officer's story corroborates well with the multiple shots fired, at least IMO.

Excellent hypothesis as to what happened. I would just note that Wilson's version is that Brown made threatening statements before advancing towards him. Regardless, I find your scenario to be much more realistic than those I've read here or heard on, say, MSNBC, e.g., a murderous or enraged Wilson shot Brown in retribution for the beating he sustained.

Link to Wilson's actual statement, please

Not 'unnamed sources'

Not 'allegedly wife's best friend' calling to a radio show

But actual statement

Sorry. I thought it was his official version, not from a family friend. I edited my post above.

 

[Politician Spock]

are you guys for real?

I'm not talking about practical choices. I'm talking about charging a cop firing bullets at you. Is it possible? Yes. Is it likely? #### no.

Multiple shots to me adds credibility to the police officer's version. He tried to fire a couple shots to disable and finally had to put this 6-4/250 lb "Kid" down with a shot to the head. Apparently Brown thought the cop was hot on his trail even though the officer didn't know he had robbed a convenience store. Brown shoved the officer or met the officer at the door of his patrol car and the two even wrestled inside the car if you believe some of the stories. It sounds like the gun might have gone off in the car, perhaps even hitting Brown and then he started running fearing for his life, it's possible the officer shot him again to stop him, now Brown feels he is going to be killed and fighting for his own life decided to try and rush the officer and that's when the final shot or shots were fired.

Not saying what I just wrote is true but the officer's story corroborates well with the multiple shots fired, at least IMO.

Has anyone worked out how long it took to call in the actual shooting yet?

I think they're still waiting for the initial call to occur.

 

[msommer]

Maybe I am oversimplifying things, but the simplest explanation, in my mind, is:

Cop yells at kids, kids tell them to #### off, cop rolls up next to them, door slam/scuffle/whatever results in cop getting thumped in the head, kids run, cop is pissed and was "attacked", cop shoots. (and shoots, and shoots, and shoots).

Yeah, that's kinda where I am, too.

But the kid wasn't running away when he was shot.

Which time he was shot? And how do you know?

Why is it so hard for people to imagine that Brown was running from the cop and that the cop shot at Brown and he realized he wasnt out running a bullet ,turned around and was then shot in the front of his body and head?

It doesn't fit wit their view of the world, perhaps

This whole event is a case of confirmation bias on a national scale.

That's not unusual

 

[Fennis]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/20/missouri-cop-was-badly-beaten-before-shooting-michael-brown-says-source/ I'm calling it. Wilson was getting the snot beat out of him and shot him. Case closed. Stop defending this D bag.

who is the D bag in your scenario?

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Maybe I am oversimplifying things, but the simplest explanation, in my mind, is:

Cop yells at kids, kids tell them to #### off, cop rolls up next to them, door slam/scuffle/whatever results in cop getting thumped in the head, kids run, cop is pissed and was "attacked", cop shoots. (and shoots, and shoots, and shoots).

Yeah, that's kinda where I am, too.

But the kid wasn't running away when he was shot.

Which time he was shot? And how do you know?

Why is it so hard for people to imagine that Brown was running from the cop and that the cop shot at Brown and he realized he wasnt out running a bullet ,turned around and was then shot in the front of his body and head?

It doesn't fit wit their view of the world, perhaps

if your first instinct after a confrontation thats not going your way is flight ,why in the world would you then stop, turn around and run towards certain death?

 

[msommer]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/20/missouri-cop-was-badly-beaten-before-shooting-michael-brown-says-source/ I'm calling it. Wilson was getting the snot beat out of him and shot him. Case closed. Stop defending this D bag.

who is the D bag in your scenario?

Given that it's fox news, we can speculate

 

[msommer]

Maybe I am oversimplifying things, but the simplest explanation, in my mind, is:

Cop yells at kids, kids tell them to #### off, cop rolls up next to them, door slam/scuffle/whatever results in cop getting thumped in the head, kids run, cop is pissed and was "attacked", cop shoots. (and shoots, and shoots, and shoots).

Yeah, that's kinda where I am, too.

But the kid wasn't running away when he was shot.

Which time he was shot? And how do you know?

Why is it so hard for people to imagine that Brown was running from the cop and that the cop shot at Brown and he realized he wasnt out running a bullet ,turned around and was then shot in the front of his body and head?

It doesn't fit wit their view of the world, perhaps

if your first instinct after a confrontation thats not going your way is flight ,why in the world would you then stop, turn around and run towards certain death?

because you are a bad, bad, black, boy

on drugs

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Maybe I am oversimplifying things, but the simplest explanation, in my mind, is:

Cop yells at kids, kids tell them to #### off, cop rolls up next to them, door slam/scuffle/whatever results in cop getting thumped in the head, kids run, cop is pissed and was "attacked", cop shoots. (and shoots, and shoots, and shoots).

Yeah, that's kinda where I am, too.

But the kid wasn't running away when he was shot.

Which time he was shot? And how do you know?

Why is it so hard for people to imagine that Brown was running from the cop and that the cop shot at Brown and he realized he wasnt out running a bullet ,turned around and was then shot in the front of his body and head?

It doesn't fit wit their view of the world, perhaps

if your first instinct after a confrontation thats not going your way is flight ,why in the world would you then stop, turn around and run towards certain death?

Because you're foolish, you think the guy won't really shoot you, and you think you can get out of the situation by taking the cop down by covering 10 yards before he will.

ETA - just for reference there is audio of an actual witness contemporaneously saying that he saw Brown "running" towards Wilson.

 

[avoiding injuries]

Since this story gained national attention, it seems like every piece of evidence that has been released is strengthening the officer being in the right.

Why in this case, as well as the TM one, is the original narrative misleading which strikes outrage and only when time goes by and more bits and pieces of information come out do we learn what actually happened isn't close to what was first portrayed.

If you were a staunch defender of the victim in either case, don't you feel a bit betrayed or duped when you find out what you were supporting turns out to be completely different? Youve been put in a tough spot to have to change your position as more facts come out. It's hard to blame anyone for grasping at alternative scenarios in order to avoid having to admit they were on the wrong side. Some never will. It's a shame.

 

[sublimeone]

Maybe I am oversimplifying things, but the simplest explanation, in my mind, is:

Cop yells at kids, kids tell them to #### off, cop rolls up next to them, door slam/scuffle/whatever results in cop getting thumped in the head, kids run, cop is pissed and was "attacked", cop shoots. (and shoots, and shoots, and shoots).

Yeah, that's kinda where I am, too.

But the kid wasn't running away when he was shot.

Which time he was shot? And how do you know?

Why is it so hard for people to imagine that Brown was running from the cop and that the cop shot at Brown and he realized he wasnt out running a bullet ,turned around and was then shot in the front of his body and head?

It doesn't fit wit their view of the world, perhaps

if your first instinct after a confrontation thats not going your way is flight ,why in the world would you then stop, turn around and run towards certain death?

Why in the world would you strong arm a convenience store worker and attack a cop? Brown wasn't exactly acting rationally.

 

[Fennis]

Since this story gained national attention, it seems like every piece of evidence that has been released is strengthening the officer being in the right.

Why in this case, as well as the TM one, is the original narrative misleading which strikes outrage and only when time goes by and more bits and pieces of information come out do we learn what actually happened isn't close to what was first portrayed.

If you were a staunch defender of the victim in either case, don't you feel a bit betrayed or duped when you find out what you were supporting turns out to be completely different? Youve been put in a tough spot to have to change your position as more facts come out. It's hard to blame anyone for grasping at alternative scenarios in order to avoid having to admit they were on the wrong side. Some never will. It's a shame.

no evidence beyond the robbery video has been released. It is only police officers, off the record, leaking info (I would bet illegally) to the press.

 

[msommer]

Maybe I am oversimplifying things, but the simplest explanation, in my mind, is:

Cop yells at kids, kids tell them to #### off, cop rolls up next to them, door slam/scuffle/whatever results in cop getting thumped in the head, kids run, cop is pissed and was "attacked", cop shoots. (and shoots, and shoots, and shoots).

Yeah, that's kinda where I am, too.

But the kid wasn't running away when he was shot.

Which time he was shot? And how do you know?

Why is it so hard for people to imagine that Brown was running from the cop and that the cop shot at Brown and he realized he wasnt out running a bullet ,turned around and was then shot in the front of his body and head?

It doesn't fit wit their view of the world, perhaps

if your first instinct after a confrontation thats not going your way is flight ,why in the world would you then stop, turn around and run towards certain death?

Why in the world would you strong arm a convenience store worker and attack a cop? Brown wasn't exactly acting rationally.

Thanks for validating post #3376

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Maybe I am oversimplifying things, but the simplest explanation, in my mind, is:

Cop yells at kids, kids tell them to #### off, cop rolls up next to them, door slam/scuffle/whatever results in cop getting thumped in the head, kids run, cop is pissed and was "attacked", cop shoots. (and shoots, and shoots, and shoots).

Yeah, that's kinda where I am, too.

But the kid wasn't running away when he was shot.

Which time he was shot? And how do you know?

Why is it so hard for people to imagine that Brown was running from the cop and that the cop shot at Brown and he realized he wasnt out running a bullet ,turned around and was then shot in the front of his body and head?

It doesn't fit wit their view of the world, perhaps

if your first instinct after a confrontation thats not going your way is flight ,why in the world would you then stop, turn around and run towards certain death?

Why in the world would you strong arm a convenience store worker and attack a cop? Brown wasn't exactly acting rationally.

he barely even pushed that guy in the store...the guy was blocking his way and he literally just moved him aside....he then made the one step towards the guy like ''really dude''? I cant comment on what happened with the cop....but i believe there is a big difference between acting like a tough guy and thinking you cant be killed by someone who already shot at you a few seconds before

 

[avoiding injuries]

Maybe I am oversimplifying things, but the simplest explanation, in my mind, is:

Cop yells at kids, kids tell them to #### off, cop rolls up next to them, door slam/scuffle/whatever results in cop getting thumped in the head, kids run, cop is pissed and was "attacked", cop shoots. (and shoots, and shoots, and shoots).

Yeah, that's kinda where I am, too.

But the kid wasn't running away when he was shot.

Which time he was shot? And how do you know?

Why is it so hard for people to imagine that Brown was running from the cop and that the cop shot at Brown and he realized he wasnt out running a bullet ,turned around and was then shot in the front of his body and head?

It doesn't fit wit their view of the world, perhaps

if your first instinct after a confrontation thats not going your way is flight ,why in the world would you then stop, turn around and run towards certain death?

Why in the world would you strong arm a convenience store worker and attack a cop? Brown wasn't exactly acting rationally.

The week before I started college I wasn't acting rational either. I basically disregarded my curfew since I knew I was almost out of my parents house.

 

[Politician Spock]

Since this story gained national attention, it seems like every piece of evidence that has been released is strengthening the officer being in the right.

Why in this case, as well as the TM one, is the original narrative misleading which strikes outrage and only when time goes by and more bits and pieces of information come out do we learn what actually happened isn't close to what was first portrayed.

If you were a staunch defender of the victim in either case, don't you feel a bit betrayed or duped when you find out what you were supporting turns out to be completely different? Youve been put in a tough spot to have to change your position as more facts come out. It's hard to blame anyone for grasping at alternative scenarios in order to avoid having to admit they were on the wrong side. Some never will. It's a shame.

Because very few people watch the news to get the news. So few that it's not profitable to just report news.

Most people are looking for entertainment, and being outraged entertains them. Thus news reports stories with a slant towards outrage to increase viewers, which in turn increases their profit.

 

[Fennis]

None of it matters. Wilson will never ever, never ever, never ever, never ever, never ever, never ever, never ever, never ever, never ever, never ever, be indicted.

Interesting article from the perspective of a white man whose son was killed by the police because a cop got his holster caught on a car mirror and thought the son was trying to grab it.

Wow. I wonder what the results will be of this case:

In 129 years since police and fire commissions were created in the state of Wisconsin, we could not find a single ruling by a police department, an inquest or a police commission that a shooting was unjustified.

The problem over many decades, in other words, was a near-total lack of accountability for wrongdoing; and if police on duty believe they can get away with almost anything, they will act accordingly

 

[avoiding injuries]

Since this story gained national attention, it seems like every piece of evidence that has been released is strengthening the officer being in the right.

Why in this case, as well as the TM one, is the original narrative misleading which strikes outrage and only when time goes by and more bits and pieces of information come out do we learn what actually happened isn't close to what was first portrayed.

If you were a staunch defender of the victim in either case, don't you feel a bit betrayed or duped when you find out what you were supporting turns out to be completely different? Youve been put in a tough spot to have to change your position as more facts come out. It's hard to blame anyone for grasping at alternative scenarios in order to avoid having to admit they were on the wrong side. Some never will. It's a shame.

no evidence beyond the robbery video has been released. It is only police officers off the record leaking info (I would bet illegally) to the press.

The autopsy basically contradicts the main points of the story that I originally heard. The robbery video, the officers injuries (perhaps this is premature to list, but I don't think so), and the video where an eyewitness says what they saw without knowing it was recorded. It's enough to make you go hmmmm.

 

[Henry Ford]

Maybe I am oversimplifying things, but the simplest explanation, in my mind, is:

Cop yells at kids, kids tell them to #### off, cop rolls up next to them, door slam/scuffle/whatever results in cop getting thumped in the head, kids run, cop is pissed and was "attacked", cop shoots. (and shoots, and shoots, and shoots).

Yeah, that's kinda where I am, too.

But the kid wasn't running away when he was shot.

Which time he was shot? And how do you know?

Well, obviously I feel like I'm stepping into a trap here, but all six times, and I know because the autopsy showed that all of the entry wounds were in the front of Brown's body. So unless he was running away backwards, I don't see how this can be the case.

Jesus Christ, look at what they are calling the front of his arm. Do you stand like that?

 

[[icon]]

Someone should tell Henry Ford the KCPD canceled their Junior Detective badge giveaway for this thread

 

[Henry Ford]

Someone should tell Henry Ford the KCPD canceled their Junior Detective badge giveaway for this thread

The forensic pathologist who works with the private coroner said exactly what I'm saying.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Since this story gained national attention, it seems like every piece of evidence that has been released is strengthening the officer being in the right.

Why in this case, as well as the TM one, is the original narrative misleading which strikes outrage and only when time goes by and more bits and pieces of information come out do we learn what actually happened isn't close to what was first portrayed.

If you were a staunch defender of the victim in either case, don't you feel a bit betrayed or duped when you find out what you were supporting turns out to be completely different? Youve been put in a tough spot to have to change your position as more facts come out. It's hard to blame anyone for grasping at alternative scenarios in order to avoid having to admit they were on the wrong side. Some never will. It's a shame.

no evidence beyond the robbery video has been released. It is only police officers off the record leaking info (I would bet illegally) to the press.

The autopsy basically contradicts the main points of the story that I originally heard. The robbery video, the officers injuries (perhaps this is premature to list, but I don't think so), and the video where an eyewitness says what they saw without knowing it was recorded. It's enough to make you go hmmmm.

Still to come: toxicology and whether or not there is a bullet hole in the police car.

 

[Fennis]

Maybe I am oversimplifying things, but the simplest explanation, in my mind, is:

Cop yells at kids, kids tell them to #### off, cop rolls up next to them, door slam/scuffle/whatever results in cop getting thumped in the head, kids run, cop is pissed and was "attacked", cop shoots. (and shoots, and shoots, and shoots).

Yeah, that's kinda where I am, too.

But the kid wasn't running away when he was shot.

Which time he was shot? And how do you know?

Well, obviously I feel like I'm stepping into a trap here, but all six times, and I know because the autopsy showed that all of the entry wounds were in the front of Brown's body. So unless he was running away backwards, I don't see how this can be the case.

Jesus Christ, look at what they are calling the front of his arm. Do you stand like that?

https://spfaust.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/hands-up-1-003.jpg

 

[Bigboy10182000]

First off the robbery is insignificant to me. I don't care what kind of guy Brown was.

Ridiculous statement. The robbery could have had a great deal to do with motivation and actions. We'll find out soon enough.

Again, I disagree. Right now the only thing that matters is that Wilson shot Brown from a distance of 30 feet, and Brown was unarmed. Unless you believe that Brown was charging at Wilson, there is no other justification for this act- I don't care if Brown was a mass murderer, a child rapist or whatever. I don't care if he spent the last 10 minutes prior pummeling Wilson to the ground, breaking his arm, etc. He's 30 feet away at the time the shots are fired, and he's unarmed. So he can't be a threat, unless he's charging at Wilson. So once again, that means that in order to justify the shooting, we have to believe that Wilson would be willing to charge at a policeman firing bullets at him, like George Pickett at Gettysburg. There is NO prior action by Brown that we know of, not the robbery, not hitting the policeman earlier, that would make him being willing to rush into death any more plausible. So Christo and others can laugh at me all you want, but I atill say the robbery is irrelevant. EVERYTHING is irrelevant that doesn't either prove Brown was charging, or prove that Wilson had some other plausible reason for shooting him from 30 feet away. That's the heart of the matter.

 

[financewonk]

Maybe I am oversimplifying things, but the simplest explanation, in my mind, is:

Cop yells at kids, kids tell them to #### off, cop rolls up next to them, door slam/scuffle/whatever results in cop getting thumped in the head, kids run, cop is pissed and was "attacked", cop shoots. (and shoots, and shoots, and shoots).

Yeah, that's kinda where I am, too.

But the kid wasn't running away when he was shot.

Which time he was shot? And how do you know?

Well, obviously I feel like I'm stepping into a trap here, but all six times, and I know because the autopsy showed that all of the entry wounds were in the front of Brown's body. So unless he was running away backwards, I don't see how this can be the case.

Jesus Christ, look at what they are calling the front of his arm. Do you stand like that?

The wound's placement also fits the narrative that he was rushing the officer, or it could have come during the scuffle in the police car. Regardless, being shot while running away doesn't mean that any of Wilson's actions were unjustified. As has been noted, police are allowed to shoot fleeing felons under certain conditions.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Maybe I am oversimplifying things, but the simplest explanation, in my mind, is:

Cop yells at kids, kids tell them to #### off, cop rolls up next to them, door slam/scuffle/whatever results in cop getting thumped in the head, kids run, cop is pissed and was "attacked", cop shoots. (and shoots, and shoots, and shoots).

Yeah, that's kinda where I am, too.

But the kid wasn't running away when he was shot.

Which time he was shot? And how do you know?

Why is it so hard for people to imagine that Brown was running from the cop and that the cop shot at Brown and he realized he wasnt out running a bullet ,turned around and was then shot in the front of his body and head?

I would like to believe a cop wouldn't do that. If Brown really was 30 feet away and stopped to turn around and was shot 6 times that's just terrible IMO. Whether he punched a man in the face or not.

 

[timschochet]

First off the robbery is insignificant to me. I don't care what kind of guy Brown was.

Ridiculous statement. The robbery could have had a great deal to do with motivation and actions. We'll find out soon enough.

Again, I disagree. Right now the only thing that matters is that Wilson shot Brown from a distance of 30 feet, and Brown was unarmed. Unless you believe that Brown was charging at Wilson, there is no other justification for this act- I don't care if Brown was a mass murderer, a child rapist or whatever. I don't care if he spent the last 10 minutes prior pummeling Wilson to the ground, breaking his arm, etc. He's 30 feet away at the time the shots are fired, and he's unarmed. So he can't be a threat, unless he's charging at Wilson.So once again, that means that in order to justify the shooting, we have to believe that Wilson would be willing to charge at a policeman firing bullets at him, like George Pickett at Gettysburg. There is NO prior action by Brown that we know of, not the robbery, not hitting the policeman earlier, that would make him being willing to rush into death any more plausible. So Christo and others can laugh at me all you want, but I atill say the robbery is irrelevant. EVERYTHING is irrelevant that doesn't either prove Brown was charging, or prove that Wilson had some other plausible reason for shooting him from 30 feet away. That's the heart of the matter.

So you've concluded that Wilson decided in the heat of the moment to do something irrational, but you can't imagine Brown deciding in the heat of the moment to do something irrational. How convenient.

Not convenient, but consider the two acts of irrationality and tell me which one is more likely. Wilson has a gun in his hand. Brown is unarmed. Is it more likely that the armed guy uses his gun, or that the unarmed guy charges into bullets?

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Maybe I am oversimplifying things, but the simplest explanation, in my mind, is:

Cop yells at kids, kids tell them to #### off, cop rolls up next to them, door slam/scuffle/whatever results in cop getting thumped in the head, kids run, cop is pissed and was "attacked", cop shoots. (and shoots, and shoots, and shoots).

Yeah, that's kinda where I am, too.

But the kid wasn't running away when he was shot.

Which time he was shot? And how do you know?

Why is it so hard for people to imagine that Brown was running from the cop and that the cop shot at Brown and he realized he wasnt out running a bullet ,turned around and was then shot in the front of his body and head?

I would like to believe a cop wouldn't do that. If Brown really was 30 feet away and stopped to turn around and was shot 6 times that's just terrible IMO. Whether he punched a man in the face or not.

What about the video of the witness saying at the scene that he saw Brown "running" towards the cop?

 

[timschochet]

Right now the only thing that matters is that Wilson shot Brown from a distance of 30 feet, and Brown was unarmed.

We don't know that Wilson shot Brown from thirty feet away. That thirty feet estimate was provided by Dorian Johnson. The autopsy neither confirmed nor dismissed the thirty feet estimate.

But tim will latch onto that single "fact" like a dog with a bone until proven wrong.

yes I will. Show me evidence that they were closer and I will change my mind about this. The 30 feet is the key to my entire thought process.

 

[matttyl]

Has anyone figured out why it was significant that the store customer rather than the store clerk called 911?

I think it's significant, because it might not have been a robbery. In fact, I have not heard any confirmation from the store owner that it in fact WAS a robbery. And if it wasn't a robbery, then I have less reason to be skeptical of Johnson's testimony- which is my only interest in the robbery in the first place. Otherwise, whether or not Brown robbed a store is immaterial to what happened to him afterwards, IMO.

Tim, I mostly give you credit for being a smart guy, or at least rational. That said, how the F can you say this having SEEN THE VIDEO?!

 

[Henry Ford]

Maybe I am oversimplifying things, but the simplest explanation, in my mind, is:

Cop yells at kids, kids tell them to #### off, cop rolls up next to them, door slam/scuffle/whatever results in cop getting thumped in the head, kids run, cop is pissed and was "attacked", cop shoots. (and shoots, and shoots, and shoots).

Yeah, that's kinda where I am, too.

But the kid wasn't running away when he was shot.

Which time he was shot? And how do you know?

Well, obviously I feel like I'm stepping into a trap here, but all six times, and I know because the autopsy showed that all of the entry wounds were in the front of Brown's body. So unless he was running away backwards, I don't see how this can be the case.

Jesus Christ, look at what they are calling the front of his arm. Do you stand like that?

The wound's placement also fits the narrative that he was rushing the officer, or it could have come during the scuffle in the police car. Regardless, being shot while running away doesn't mean that any of Wilson's actions were unjustified. As has been noted, police are allowed to shoot fleeing felons under certain conditions.

I agree, but following the stupid headline that based the fact that he was shot on the "front" side of a pathologist's entry wound marker sheet he was shot while facing the officer is ####ing stupid.

 

[msommer]

Since this story gained national attention, it seems like every piece of evidence that has been released is strengthening the officer being in the right.

Why in this case, as well as the TM one, is the original narrative misleading which strikes outrage and only when time goes by and more bits and pieces of information come out do we learn what actually happened isn't close to what was first portrayed.

If you were a staunch defender of the victim in either case, don't you feel a bit betrayed or duped when you find out what you were supporting turns out to be completely different? Youve been put in a tough spot to have to change your position as more facts come out. It's hard to blame anyone for grasping at alternative scenarios in order to avoid having to admit they were on the wrong side. Some never will. It's a shame.

no evidence beyond the robbery video has been released. It is only police officers off the record leaking info (I would bet illegally) to the press.

The autopsy basically contradicts the main points of the story that I originally heard. The robbery video, the officers injuries (perhaps this is premature to list, but I don't think so), and the video where an eyewitness says what they saw without knowing it was recorded. It's enough to make you go hmmmm.

Still to come: toxicology and whether or not there is a bullet hole in the police car.

How many shots fired

Distance from body where shots fired

Medical report on officer incl toxicology

Officer's statement

GSR on clothing

final autopsy

I'm sure there's more