Lying - Acceptable, Yes or No? (1 Viewer)

[Ruffrodys05]

Lying - Is it acceptable to lie and do you still trust someone who has lied to you? Yes or No? Straightforward question, a simple yes or no will suffice.

I am not interested in the validity of "little white lies." Nor am I interested in, "It depends on the situation," arguments. At least, not for the purpose of this poll. Although those discussions and arguments are absolutely welcome within this thread, the heart of this poll is directed at core values, integrity and honesty. No nuance needed. Where do you stand?

 

[sho nuff]

No really to both.  If someone lies to you, its very hard to trust them going forward.  The trust has been broken.  Its possible to earn it back, but there will always then be skepticism over what they say.

 

[Parrothead]

ho ho ho- does this red suit make me look fat?  

 

[timschochet]

I assume, since this is a political thread, we’re talking about politicians? 
The answer is it depends. Normally not, but there are exceptions. 

 

[Leroy Hoard]

"It takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen.”

 

[Ruffrodys05]

ho ho ho- does this red suit make me look fat?  

No, you are fat.

 

[Ruffrodys05]

I assume, since this is a political thread, we’re talking about politicians? 
The answer is it depends. Normally not, but there are exceptions. 

You don't need to assume, nor should you. I specifically stated the purpose of the poll. I placed it here in the PSF because I felt that inevitably it would become political. Case in point, your post.

So answer me please, is it acceptable, within your core values, to lie? 

Personally, I don't care if it's a little white lie or not, it is completely and wholly unacceptable. Even a little white lie from someone leads me to lose my trust in them. Period.

 

[KarmaPolice]

I guess for the poll no, but it really does depend.  

 

[Ruffrodys05]

"It takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen.”

Disagree. "It takes one to lie and one to believe."

 

[IvanKaramazov]

"It takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen.”

I still use this line all the time at home.  Never gets old.

For my kids, my go-to line is still "It's always something, isn't it?  First I have to drive your pregnant mother to the hospital to give birth to you, and now this!"

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Disagree. "It takes one to lie and one to believe."

Homer Simpson needs to update his notebook.

 

[Juxtatarot]

Voted yes due to little white lies. 

 

[Godsbrother]

I think motivation of the liar has a lot to do with it

 

[2Squirrels1Nut]

Generally speaking "no" but there are exceptions as in a situation to spare another's feelings. 

 

[timschochet]

You don't need to assume, nor should you. I specifically stated the purpose of the poll. I placed it here in the PSF because I felt that inevitably it would become political. Case in point, your post.

So answer me please, is it acceptable, within your core values, to lie? 

Personally, I don't care if it's a little white lie or not, it is completely and wholly unacceptable. Even a little white lie from someone leads me to lose my trust in them. Period.

It can be. I’m not nearly as absolutist as you. 
 

I will offer an actual political example: in 1975, President Ford was told that Palestinian terrorists had hidden a nuclear bomb in Boston. It turned out to be a hoax, but before the government knew this, there was a massive FBI effort to find and defuse the bomb. Under direct orders from Ford, the FBI lied to the public about their purpose. When a local journalist heard a rumor that the bomb was there, he was told that it was a total lie. Ford instructed the FBI to be proactive in their lies, so that the public would never come to think that the city was threatened. This is because, obviously, a mass panic would have caused the lives of thousands. 
 

I get this is an extreme example, but my point is that sometimes, not often, it is the proper role of public officials to lie. Just as sometimes, not often, it is the proper role of ordinary people, family and friends, to lie. 

 

[Zow]

I have no idea how to answer. Am I Kantian in my demand that people should always 100% tell the truth? No. I think small lies and half-truths are natural and usually used in good faith. 

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

It is always wrong to lie.  However, it is way too often the lesser of two evils.  Our failure in these cases isn’t the lie, but getting ourselves into these situations to begin with.  

 

[Mister CIA]

You don't need to assume, nor should you. I specifically stated the purpose of the poll. I placed it here in the PSF because I felt that inevitably it would become political. Case in point, your post.

So answer me please, is it acceptable, within your core values, to lie? 

Personally, I don't care if it's a little white lie or not, it is completely and wholly unacceptable. Even a little white lie from someone leads me to lose my trust in them. Period.

Daddy, am I ugly?

 

[Mister CIA]

Sam Harris has written a book on this, Lying.  Have not read.

Also, last week he released a short podcast with Ricky Gervais and this subject was brought up.  

 

[dgreen]

Yeah, there are times when lying is the right action. But, for me, it's probably like 0.0001% of all my statements fit into that category, so I really have no problem saying "Lying is not acceptable." I think people (including myself) lie way too much and a good bit of that is knowing there are legit situations to lie and then using that logic to justify lying in scenarios that really don't cross that line.

The second part of the poll is harder for me. The poll forces you to answer both questions the same way. I assume many people in my life have lied to me a ton. I still trust the vast majority of them. So, I'd say no lying isn't acceptable but yes I do tend to trust people who have lied to me. Then again, as far as I know, I don't have anyone in my life who is a serial liar and has caused me a bunch of harm with their lies.

 

[Insein]

"It's not a lie if you believe it."

-George Costanza

 

[urbanhack]

No. I've been trying to live my life according the four agreements code.  I found it useful in daily life as well as work life.

BE IMPECCABLE WITH YOUR WORD
Speak with integrity. Say only what you mean. Avoid using the word to speak against yourself or to gossip about others. Use the power of your word in the direction of truth and love.

DON'T TAKE ANYTHING PERSONALLY
Nothing others do is because of you. What others say and do is a projection of their own reality, their own dream. When you are immune to the opinions and actions of others, you won't be the victim of needless suffering.

DON'T MAKE ASSUMPTIONS
Find the courage to ask questions and to express what you really want. Communicate with others as clearly as you can to avoid misunderstandings, sadness, and drama. With just this one agreement, you can completely transform your life.

ALWAYS DO YOUR BEST
Your best is going to change from moment to moment; it will be different when you are healthy as opposed to sick. Under any circumstance, simply do your best, and you will avoid self-judgment, self-abuse, and regret. 

 

[dkp993]

Couldn’t answer the poll as context is important.  But the best way I can answer the question is….. I’m currently hiring for a leadership position.  Met with a candidate last week who I really liked and had a mostly great interview with.  The mostly part came from something on his resume that just didn’t line up (looked like a clear misrepresentation of a job title). I asked him about the it giving him a chance to clear it up, people often over exaggerate on a resume.  He didn’t and actually leaned into it. Fine.  On the background check afterwards it was clear he was lying.  So…. no go.  Won’t hire him.  It’s a shame too because he didn’t need what he was lying about for me to hire him, and if he had just used the opportunity I provided in the interview to be honest about the exaggeration I would have.  So yeah lying here was acceptable.  

 

[Zow]

Couldn’t answer the poll as context is important.  But the best way I can answer the question is….. I’m currently hiring for a leadership position.  Met with a candidate last week who I really liked and had a mostly great interview with.  The mostly part came from something on his resume that just didn’t line up (looked like a clear misrepresentation of a job title). I asked him about the it giving him a chance to clear it up, people often over exaggerate on a resume.  He didn’t and actually leaned into it. Fine.  On the background check afterwards it was clear he was lying.  So…. no go.  Won’t hire him.  It’s a shame too because he didn’t need what he was lying about for me to hire him, and if he had just used the opportunity I provided in the interview to be honest about the exaggeration I would have.  So yeah lying here was acceptable.  

Funny. I just dealt with a similar situation with a staff member earlier today. I like her a lot, but she screwed up on something and then lied about the screw up. I'll also understand human error and, to an extent, I'll even understand a bad work day performance because of something in one's personal life or whatever. But, the lie is intolerable (and therefore the fire-able offense in my eyes) because I oftentimes will have to represent something I know to be true from staff and cannot operate without complete trust there. Put differently, I can usually overcome a screwup if I know about it. It gets exponentially more challenge to overcome a screwup then a lie to cover it up. 

 

[E Street Brat]

What if you're just tricking?

This was sons go to when he was little 

 

[whoknew]

What a black and white world.

 

[crackattack]

Depends I guess. I voted yes. A lie about adultery, no. A lie about your family pet dying to a 4 year old, yes. Not black and white type question.

 

[lazyike]

Kind of depends on the size of the lie, if parts of the lie are accurate, and how many times the guy has lied.  You pull the monster liar, liar pants are on fire with absolutely nothing true in the story and do so multiple times in regards to politicians no chance you’ll get my vote. Have to accept some truth stretching or you won’t be voting for either candidate unfortunately.

 

[Sand]

Personally, I don't care if it's a little white lie or not, it is completely and wholly unacceptable. Even a little white lie from someone leads me to lose my trust in them. Period.

So a situation came up - friend of ours had a new baby and named the child a name that we had considered and laughed at because we thought it was so awful.  On first visit the new mother asked "Isn't that name precious?"  We, of course, lied about liking the name.

Compare that with your statement and tell my why it was completely and wholly unacceptable.

 

[Mister CIA]

Sam Harris has written a book on this, Lying.  Have not read.

Also, last week he released a short podcast with Ricky Gervais and this subject was brought up.  

Adding to this, it was suggested that lying is an evolutionary feature.  For example, camouflage is a form of lying.  

 

[cockroach]

Personally, I don't care if it's a little white lie or not, it is completely and wholly unacceptable. Even a little white lie from someone leads me to lose my trust in them. Period.

Edited 3 hours ago by Ruffrodys05

Curious if you have children and what you tell them about religion, Santa, etc

 

[Long Ball Larry]

You have 2 questions in the poll that I would consider to have different answers.  I can't answer without lying.  

 

[Apple Juice]

I lie to avoid going places or talking to people. I feel a little bad about it but it's worth it.

 

[crackattack]

Curious if you have children and what you tell them about religion, Santa, etc

This. Good question. I'd like to see an answer on this. 

 

[squistion]

You have 2 questions in the poll that I would consider to have different answers.  I can't answer without lying.  

Another good reason to not answer a public poll as people would assume I am answering yes or no to two questions, while like you I might have different answers if the poll had been split. 

While we ponder that, here is the song for the day:

Keith - Ain't Gonna Lie 

https://youtu.be/aAb5jugFMpo

 

[foxco]

Adding to this, it was suggested that lying is an evolutionary feature.  For example, camouflage is a form of lying.  

Years ago was out at a bar and hooked up with a girl who was all dolled up and attractive. 

Saw her without makeup the next morning - LIAR!!!

 

[Terminalxylem]

The only time it is acceptable to lie is a public poll.

 

[Mister CIA]

Years ago was out at a bar and hooked up with a girl who was all dolled up and attractive. 

Saw her without makeup the next morning - LIAR!!!

Went home at 2 with a 10 and woke up at 10 with a 2.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Generally speaking "no" but there are exceptions as in a situation to spare another's feelings. 

I think the quote is “honesty without compassion is cruelty.”

My favorite movie is Life is Beautiful. In it, a father lies to his child about playing games with Nazis while in a concentration camp. I don’t think he did the wrong thing.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Couldn’t answer the poll as context is important.  But the best way I can answer the question is….. I’m currently hiring for a leadership position.  Met with a candidate last week who I really liked and had a mostly great interview with.  The mostly part came from something on his resume that just didn’t line up (looked like a clear misrepresentation of a job title). I asked him about the it giving him a chance to clear it up, people often over exaggerate on a resume.  He didn’t and actually leaned into it. Fine.  On the background check afterwards it was clear he was lying.  So…. no go.  Won’t hire him.  It’s a shame too because he didn’t need what he was lying about for me to hire him, and if he had just used the opportunity I provided in the interview to be honest about the exaggeration I would have.  So yeah lying here was acceptable.  

Just not lying twice.

 

[Ruffrodys05]

Curious if you have children and what you tell them about religion, Santa, etc

This. Good question. I'd like to see an answer on this. 

Yes, three adult children. 29, 27 & 23 years old this year, respectively. Only time I ever lied to them was about Santa, and at around the time they each reached 5 years old it just didn't feel right to me. 

I get it though, those little white lies are necessary on occasion so as to not cause anyone else pain or undue suffering. 

 

[cockroach]

Yes, three adult children. 29, 27 & 23 years old this year, respectively. Only time I ever lied to them was about Santa, and at around the time they each reached 5 years old it just didn't feel right to me. 

I get it though, those little white lies are necessary on occasion so as to not cause anyone else pain or undue suffering. 

You never told your kids something like, "Mommy and daddy need to rest", so you could get some privacy to clap them cheeks? 

I don't have kids but it seems like parenting on a day to day basis is mostly lying to not inconvenience yourself (ie, we can't afford that, can't swim 30 min after eating, etc) 

 

[dkp993]

Yes, three adult children. 29, 27 & 23 years old this year, respectively. Only time I ever lied to them was about Santa, and at around the time they each reached 5 years old it just didn't feel right to me. 

I get it though, those little white lies are necessary on occasion so as to not cause anyone else pain or undue suffering. 

Only time?  So no tooth fairy or Easter bunny?

 

[Mile High]

People lie sometimes. Some people lie like it's their job. Then there are those who only lie when their lips are moving.

 

[Ruffrodys05]

Only time?  So no tooth fairy or Easter bunny?

Pretty sure you got the picture, I didn't feel the need to elaborate about other holidays. 

Maybe it is a flawed poll. Maybe I was too strong in my reply earlier that lying is never acceptable. I tried to address that in my OP but didn't do a very good job. 

Basically, I look around and I see adults lying to other adults, a lot, for stupid reasons and I can't for the life of me come up with any valid reason for doing so. I'm not talking about the white lies or the "it depends, if there's a valid reason," lying. I'm asking the question about just straight up lying. Which happens a lot nowadays. 

 

[dkp993]

Pretty sure you got the picture, I didn't feel the need to elaborate about other holidays. 

Maybe it is a flawed poll. Maybe I was too strong in my reply earlier that lying is never acceptable. I tried to address that in my OP but didn't do a very good job. 

Basically, I look around and I see adults lying to other adults, a lot, for stupid reasons and I can't for the life of me come up with any valid reason for doing so. I'm not talking about the white lies or the "it depends, if there's a valid reason," lying. I'm asking the question about just straight up lying. Which happens a lot nowadays. 

I get it.  I was half giving you #### and half trying to determine where your line is. You were pretty definitive about “the only time”.  I could see many incidences equal to that Santa level lie I probably tell my daughter (she’s 6).  But as a whole I’d define myself as a person who works hard to tell the truth and doesn’t run from it trying avoid a hard conversation (which is why I think most lie).  

 

[Terminalxylem]

Pretty sure you got the picture, I didn't feel the need to elaborate about other holidays. 

Sounds like a lie of omission (my mom’s favorite type).

 

[Chaz McNulty]

Lying - Is it acceptable to lie and do you still trust someone who has lied to you? Yes or No? Straightforward question, a simple yes or no will suffice.

I am not interested in the validity of "little white lies." Nor am I interested in, "It depends on the situation," arguments. At least, not for the purpose of this poll. Although those discussions and arguments are absolutely welcome within this thread, the heart of this poll is directed at core values, integrity and honesty. No nuance needed. Where do you stand?

I need to know if we're talking about something small like the crowd size of an event, or if we are talking about something that could get me in trouble like paying off someone not to tell about an extra-marital affair?

 

[Joe Mammy]

Looks like some lying going on in the poll answers.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Looks like some lying going on in the poll answers.

I'd be lying if I didn't agree with you.