Eli2Shockey
Footballguy
i agree, i love this move by madden. (however, they could have gave him 100 in KR and not SP)TheGreatest said:Bunch of haters in hereEvery one of you would want Hester returning kicks for your team though
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Madden '08 has it's first 100.0 'speed' player (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter GRIDIRON ASSASSIN
- Start date
Johnny Ice
Footballguy
What does his number of overall ST TDs have to do with anything? This is about top speed compared to the other guys in the league. I have no problems with Hester being rated the 100 in KR/PR category but 100 top speed is foolish. Stop being a homer for a second, it's annoying.
CalBear
Footballguy
What point are you trying to make? Giordano caught up with Hester from behind, grabbed his legs, and made him fall down in the end zone. You might have a definition for that other than "tackle", but that doesn't change the fact that Hester didn't display blazing speed on that TD. It also doesn't change the fact that the Bears got their butts kicked.
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
That cover looks like Carson Palmer 
GRIDIRON ASSASSIN
Footballguy
How far did Hester run and how far did Giordano run? Furthermore, let's keep things in perspective - and define "butts kicked" for me please. Grossman got his butt kicked, and even assisted in kicking his own butt, other than that the special teams DOMINATED the Colts defense and the defense allowed one passing TD by 'the great Manning' (on a blown coverage by a rookie) - that's NOT my definition of the 'Bears getting their butts kicked'.
ImTheScientist
Footballguy
Typical bears fan......just blame everything on Grossman......you GOT YOUR BUTTS KICKED!
GRIDIRON ASSASSIN
Footballguy
Going into the fourth quarter, the Bears were down by FIVE points. That does not equate to getting your butt whooped.Grossman's two fumbled (and not recovered) snaps, INT for a TD and INT (both in the fourth quarter) were the difference makers in the Super Bowl. Offensive Coordinator Ron Turner shares in the blame as well. Anybody that tells me anything else is just plain ignorant.
jurb26
Footballguy
What about the awful S play? Horrid tackling? Lack of pass rush?Other than Hester running back that KO, that really ddin't look anything like the Bears team we'd seen all season long.Oh, I guess I should comment on what the thread is really about.
If Madden really wants to give out a 100 speed, why don't they just give it to the guy who wins the "fastest man in the NFL race?" Sure Hester is fast, but he is not the faster player in the NFL. Not by far. Why rank him as such?
Last edited by a moderator:
-OZ-
Footballguy
This is a fair point. I'd prefer Hester to have a 98 in speed, 99 in acceleration, 99 in awareness and other attributes that more accurately reflect his skill set.
GRIDIRON ASSASSIN
Footballguy
As mediocre as the defense played... again, the Bears were down by FIVE points in the fourth quarter, and the game was in Grossman's hands to win. ....and he lost.What about the awful S play? Horrid tackling? Lack of pass rush?Other than Hester running back that KO, that really ddin't look anything like the Bears team we'd seen all season long.Oh, I guess I should comment on what the thread is really about.
CalBear
Footballguy
Giordano started at his own 20, ran to the Chicago 25 on the far side of the field, and caught Hester at the goal line on the near side of the field. So, Giordano ran at least 20 yards farther than Hester did. And if you look at the video, Giordano starts to close on him when Hester was at the 40 yard line; the only time Hester put distance between himself and the defenders was when he made his break to the outside. The guy's great at making breaks to the outside, no doubt, but he's not very straight-line fast.And last I checked, Grossman was wearing a Bears uniform. Oh, and the Bears' vaunted defense gave up over 400 yards of offense, while the Bears managed only 276. Indy had significantly more passing yards, significantly more rushing yards, more forced turnovers, and better punt returns; the only area of the game where the Bears outperformed Indy was on that 12 second return. "OK, Alex, I'll take 'Butt-kicking' for $500."
Rovers
Footballguy
No, Justin Miller, the Jets KO returner win the so called "fastest man" contest, and reportedly, it wsn't even close.
Thats because DeAngelo didnt run it last year. Miller raced a bunch of bums like Kassim Osgood and Walt Harris and it was a very close race... I cant remember who he barely edged out though.
They ought to make a contest... whoever wins the fastest man competition at the pro bowl gets the ONLY 100 speed rating in the next Madden. That will make a lot more players want to run.
They ought to make a contest... whoever wins the fastest man competition at the pro bowl gets the ONLY 100 speed rating in the next Madden. That will make a lot more players want to run.
Last edited by a moderator:
Fastest guy in the NFL without a doubt is Bennie Brazell from LSU/Cincinatti. Unless someone else has run in the Olympics. It would have been Xavier Carter, but he chose to go strictly track.
The most decorated All-American in LSU track history, Brazell was a 2004 U.S. Olympic team member (400 meter hurdles), and he comes to Bengals as a late-round draftee with a huge potential upside … Though his track career relegated him to mostly reserve duty on the Tigers football squad, he showed excellent football skills during Bengals minicamps, and his pure speed is exceptional … He ran on an NCAA-record 4x400-meter relay team, won four NCAA titles on other relay teams, and three times finished second in the nation in the individual 400-meter hurdles … No stranger in a football atmosphere, he played in 43 games over four seasons at LSU.
The most decorated All-American in LSU track history, Brazell was a 2004 U.S. Olympic team member (400 meter hurdles), and he comes to Bengals as a late-round draftee with a huge potential upside … Though his track career relegated him to mostly reserve duty on the Tigers football squad, he showed excellent football skills during Bengals minicamps, and his pure speed is exceptional … He ran on an NCAA-record 4x400-meter relay team, won four NCAA titles on other relay teams, and three times finished second in the nation in the individual 400-meter hurdles … No stranger in a football atmosphere, he played in 43 games over four seasons at LSU.
Last edited by a moderator:
jurb26
Footballguy
I'm not sure where it would rank him as far as time goes, but didn't Ginn have the best time in the Nation 2 years in a row (Jr and Sr year) in high school as a 110 hurdler? I also believe he was invited to Olympic trials as a high school athlete. Now, he has not run track since high school as far as I know. One has to wonder how much faster he possibly could be from then to now though.
Xavier Carter was, is, and will always be faster than Ginn.Xavier "PeeWee" Carter (born 8 December 1985 in Palm Bay, Florida) is a professional track & field athlete. He attends Louisiana State University and was a star on both the track & field team and the football team. Prior to LSU, Xavier Carter graduated from Palm Bay Senior High School in Melbourne, FL.During his time in high school, Carter became a star track athlete and football player. His high school track and field career included nine Florida state titles, 10 regional, district and county crowns and nine Cape Coast Conference titles. Carter won state titles in the 100, 200 and 400 meters in back-to-back years (2003 and 2004), becoming the only athlete in Florida history to do so. During both his Junior and Senior years, Carter was named athlete of the year for USA Track and Field, Nike, Gatorade and National High School Coaches Association, Track and Field.During Carter's junior year in high school, he ran 10.38 in the 100m dash, 20.69 in the 200m dash, and 45.88 in the 400m dash, the best in the nation in that event for 2003. As a senior, Carter ran 10.29 the 100m dash, 20.49 in the 200m dash, and 45.44 in the 400m dash, while setting a national high school record in the indoor 200m dash with a mark of 20.69, becoming the first high school athlete to run under 21 seconds indoors in that event. [1]At the 2006 NCAA Men's Outdoor Track and Field Championship, Carter won national titles in four events and became the first person to do so since Jesse Owens accomplished the feat twice in 1935 and 1936. [2] He was also the first athlete ever to win both the 100m and 400m events on the same day. [2] He has become known as X-Man due to the first letter of his name as well as his signature victory salute of crossing his forearms into an X. [3]Shortly after his success at the NCAA championships he announced that he would forego his remaining two years of college eligibility in both track and football to join the professional track and field circuit.[4] He is now represented by the sports agent Mark Block (coach and husband of the former 100m world champion, Zhanna Pintusevich-Block) of Total Sports Management.[5]. On 28 July 2006 he announced a deal with Nike that will run through to the 2012 Summer Olympics in London[6].On 11 July 2006, at the grand prix in Lausanne, Switzerland, Carter ran the second fastest 200m race ever, recording a time of 19.63 seconds. Only Michael Johnson's world record time of 19.32 from the 1996 Olympic Games in Atlanta, Georgia is faster.[edit]
Last edited by a moderator:
jurb26
Footballguy
So, Carter does not play football.
Agreed, who cares. The x-man is fast but this is not a track and field website.So, Carter does not play football.
He did his first 2 years at LSU then got a huge contract by Nike. Brazell is faster than Ginn as well. Doesn't matter, all 3 are much faster than Devin Hester.So, Carter does not play football.
Only reason I said anything about him was because Carter and Ginn Jr are the same age and Jurb asked about Ginn in high school.Agreed, who cares. The x-man is fast but this is not a track and field website.So, Carter does not play football.
-OZ-
Footballguy
I'm sure all players care more about their Madden speed # than winning an award. Actually, they probably do. 
I guarantee they do. In that competition, you never see the fastest players in the league run so you dont know who is the fastest. If they had a contest like that, everyone would be trying to get in.
SmoovySmoov
The Way of the Samurai
This thread just goes to prove that people will ##### about anything on this board.
GRIDIRON ASSASSIN
Footballguy
yawn..... He did NOT catch Hester and tackle him PRIOR to the end zone. So who gives a crap - and Rex Grossman cost the Bears an opportunity to win the Super Bowl. You can spin your drivel any which way you want - but these are indisputable COLD HARD FACTS. Until you can show me ONE player who stopped Hester on his TD sprint, or show me any Bear with a worse game in the Super Bowl - you lose.
CalBear
Footballguy
The topic isn't "did Hester score a TD," the topic is "is Hester the fastest guy in the NFL?" He's not.Grossman had a bad game, but considering that the Bears got outscored 29-10 in the last 59 minutes of the game, I think it's safe to say that everyone else had a bad game, too.
GRIDIRON ASSASSIN
Footballguy
Did he outrun everybody on the Colts and score a TD? Yes. Next!The last time I checked, a football game was a full 60 minutes, and during the most critical moment of the fourth quarter, when the Bears were down BY ONLY FIVE, Rex Grossman threw a TD that was run back for a TD, putting them down by 12. Then when he tried to 'go for it all' - he threw another pick. The loss is pinned on the shoulders of Grossman and O.C. Ron Turner. Grossman had THE WORST game. Next!
The Vision
Footballguy
The 100 ranking only matters to people that play the game online. We can look forward to the clowns moving Hester into the WR slot and throwing bombs on every play.
SSOG
Moderator
Maybe if he cured that fumbling problem, but come on, let's be realistic here. Everyone is falling to pieces over that "return TDs" stat, but there's more to being a returner than scoring the most TDs. If given the choice between a guy who got exactly 50 yards on every kickoff return, and another guy who got 5 yards 90% of the time, but managed to break 6 TDs on the season, who would you rather have? I know who *I* would rather have.6 players had at least 10 kickoff returns and averaged more yards per than Hester did, including Justin Miller of the Jets, who had as many k/o return TDs as Hester, and averaged 2 yards more on average to boot. Pacman Jones not only averaged slightly more yards per return on punts than Hester, but he also had 3 TDs on 34 returns (compared to 3 on 47 for Hester), and fewer fumbles, too. Maurice Jones-Drew averaged more yards per punt return *AND* per kickoff return (although, in all fairness, he only had one punt return so there are HUGE sample-size issues there), and once again, he's not a massive fumbler like Hester is.Hester might be the best combo punt/kick returner in the NFL (although it's not like Dante Hall is chopped liver now that there's a new next big thing, and Detroit's Eddie Drummond is wildly underrated because he doesn't get the TDs, but is a very consistant weapon in the return game)... but in terms of pure KRs and pure PRs, it's not anywhere near the runaway that everyone makes it out to be. Guys like Drummond, Pacman Jones, and Hall are all proven commodities. I'm curious to see what happens next year when Hester "only" gets 2 return TDs- will he be forgotten as quickly as these guys were? Or worse, will he actually be cast as the villain in several key losses because of his horrible tendency to fumble whenever the other team looks at him funny? Special teams players get judged on a smaller sample size than anyone else in the entire NFL other than placekickers, and no one seems to realize that performance in that regard fluctuates crazily from year to year. That's why you see special teams performers very rarely getting back-to-back pro bowl invites. Hester might have had a great year this year, but it's going to be a different story next year- he'll have a solid but unspectacular season, mark my words. The greatest returners aren't the ones who have the brightest single seasons, they're the ones who are consistantly above average throughout their career. It remains to be seen if Hester will become one of those.Bunch of haters in hereEvery one of you would want Hester returning kicks for your team though
jurb26
Footballguy
You keep harping on this fumble stat. Hester didn't exactly "fumble" the ball a lot last year so much as he muffed a few punts. Unlike several returns that I have seen (especially young ones) Hester seems to do a great job of simply falling on the ball rather than kicking it around and creating more mess when he muffs kicks. The main issue was that I kow Hester forced himself to try and catch balls that he shouldn't have at times... guys who can take it the distance any play normally do. Bottom line is that of Hester's 8 "fumbles" only 2 were lost. It is also funny to see the 6 points placed on the scoreboard diminished in this view. There is no telling what an offence will do with that FP. You never take points off the board. I do agree, Hester needs more than just one great and record breaking season of return play like last years to solidify his name.Maybe if he cured that fumbling problem, but come on, let's be realistic here. Everyone is falling to pieces over that "return TDs" stat, but there's more to being a returner than scoring the most TDs. If given the choice between a guy who got exactly 50 yards on every kickoff return, and another guy who got 5 yards 90% of the time, but managed to break 6 TDs on the season, who would you rather have? I know who *I* would rather have.6 players had at least 10 kickoff returns and averaged more yards per than Hester did, including Justin Miller of the Jets, who had as many k/o return TDs as Hester, and averaged 2 yards more on average to boot. Pacman Jones not only averaged slightly more yards per return on punts than Hester, but he also had 3 TDs on 34 returns (compared to 3 on 47 for Hester), and fewer fumbles, too. Maurice Jones-Drew averaged more yards per punt return *AND* per kickoff return (although, in all fairness, he only had one punt return so there are HUGE sample-size issues there), and once again, he's not a massive fumbler like Hester is.Hester might be the best combo punt/kick returner in the NFL (although it's not like Dante Hall is chopped liver now that there's a new next big thing, and Detroit's Eddie Drummond is wildly underrated because he doesn't get the TDs, but is a very consistant weapon in the return game)... but in terms of pure KRs and pure PRs, it's not anywhere near the runaway that everyone makes it out to be. Guys like Drummond, Pacman Jones, and Hall are all proven commodities. I'm curious to see what happens next year when Hester "only" gets 2 return TDs- will he be forgotten as quickly as these guys were? Or worse, will he actually be cast as the villain in several key losses because of his horrible tendency to fumble whenever the other team looks at him funny? Special teams players get judged on a smaller sample size than anyone else in the entire NFL other than placekickers, and no one seems to realize that performance in that regard fluctuates crazily from year to year. That's why you see special teams performers very rarely getting back-to-back pro bowl invites. Hester might have had a great year this year, but it's going to be a different story next year- he'll have a solid but unspectacular season, mark my words. The greatest returners aren't the ones who have the brightest single seasons, they're the ones who are consistantly above average throughout their career. It remains to be seen if Hester will become one of those.Bunch of haters in here
GRIDIRON ASSASSIN
Footballguy
Well, he certainly doesn't get a 100.0 for singing 'Take Me Out to the Ballgame'.
I guess reading lyrics and singing are two things he can't do, the other being chewing gum and walking.
I guess reading lyrics and singing are two things he can't do, the other being chewing gum and walking.
Aaronstory
Footballguy
Dante. Hall.
Next....
Next....
SmoovySmoov
The Way of the Samurai
If you think Devin Hester has a "fumbling problem", then you OBVIOUSLY didn't watch any Bears games when Bobby Wade was back there. Hester is miles above and beyond in that comparison. It amazes me how people cut on players just to cut on them. My Dad (who is NOT a Bears fan) was talking during the season about how he was reading about how stupid Hester is. "As long as he can run, that's all I care about" was my response. He had no reply for that. And Hester set an NFL record as a rookie. Period. The guy's good.SSOG said:Maybe if he cured that fumbling problem, but come on, let's be realistic here. Everyone is falling to pieces over that "return TDs" stat, but there's more to being a returner than scoring the most TDs. If given the choice between a guy who got exactly 50 yards on every kickoff return, and another guy who got 5 yards 90% of the time, but managed to break 6 TDs on the season, who would you rather have? I know who *I* would rather have.6 players had at least 10 kickoff returns and averaged more yards per than Hester did, including Justin Miller of the Jets, who had as many k/o return TDs as Hester, and averaged 2 yards more on average to boot. Pacman Jones not only averaged slightly more yards per return on punts than Hester, but he also had 3 TDs on 34 returns (compared to 3 on 47 for Hester), and fewer fumbles, too. Maurice Jones-Drew averaged more yards per punt return *AND* per kickoff return (although, in all fairness, he only had one punt return so there are HUGE sample-size issues there), and once again, he's not a massive fumbler like Hester is.Hester might be the best combo punt/kick returner in the NFL (although it's not like Dante Hall is chopped liver now that there's a new next big thing, and Detroit's Eddie Drummond is wildly underrated because he doesn't get the TDs, but is a very consistant weapon in the return game)... but in terms of pure KRs and pure PRs, it's not anywhere near the runaway that everyone makes it out to be. Guys like Drummond, Pacman Jones, and Hall are all proven commodities. I'm curious to see what happens next year when Hester "only" gets 2 return TDs- will he be forgotten as quickly as these guys were? Or worse, will he actually be cast as the villain in several key losses because of his horrible tendency to fumble whenever the other team looks at him funny? Special teams players get judged on a smaller sample size than anyone else in the entire NFL other than placekickers, and no one seems to realize that performance in that regard fluctuates crazily from year to year. That's why you see special teams performers very rarely getting back-to-back pro bowl invites. Hester might have had a great year this year, but it's going to be a different story next year- he'll have a solid but unspectacular season, mark my words. The greatest returners aren't the ones who have the brightest single seasons, they're the ones who are consistantly above average throughout their career. It remains to be seen if Hester will become one of those.Bunch of haters in here
SSOG
Moderator
I don't think Hester is chopped liver- I really think he's going to be one of the top 5 return men in the league for years to come, I just don't think he's there yet. You might make a distinction between a muff and a fumble, but both are potentially recoverable by the other team, and despite your claims that he's unnaturally good at recovering his own fumbles, statistically speaking fumble recoveries are pure luck (Football Outsiders has done the research on the topic and have found that there is no correlation between fumble recoveries from one year to the next).If he clears up that fumble problem, watch out, because he's going to be a real special teams force. Of course, if he clears up that fumble problem, that also means playing more conservatively, which means fewer return TDs, so I'm sure the general consensus will quickly become that he's just mediocre.
SSOG
Moderator
Funny, I never realized that being better than Bobby Wade was now something worth bragging about.
jurb26
Footballguy
You can call it luck if you want. All I'm saying is that Hester does not seem to fall victim of the um say, stupidity of other returners I've seen. You know guys who muff a kick and yet still try and one hand recover it or pick it and run or some other crap while guys are barreling down on them at full speed. He simply gets on the ball with 2 hands. I don't care what "stats" say. There is a rather obvious and visible difference in muffs and fumbles IMO. When you muff the ball, there may or may not be traffic around you. You are not, by rule, being hit or wrapped up during a muff as you are during a fumble. I would say over 60% of muffs could be recovered by the guy who muffed it in the 1st place so long as he does not panic. Of course this is just using my eyes from watching football and my opinion. I don't however think the "fumble" stats are very useful in comparing muffs. Maybe I'm mistaken about how many where muffs and how many were actually fumbles.
Last edited by a moderator:
ImTheScientist
Footballguy
Whatever helps you sleep at nightAs mediocre as the defense played... again, the Bears were down by FIVE points in the fourth quarter, and the game was in Grossman's hands to win. ....and he lost.What about the awful S play? Horrid tackling? Lack of pass rush?Other than Hester running back that KO, that really ddin't look anything like the Bears team we'd seen all season long.
Oh, I guess I should comment on what the thread is really about.
If Madden really wants to give out a 100 speed, why don't they just give it to the guy who wins the "fastest man in the NFL race?" Sure Hester is fast, but he is not the faster player in the NFL. Not by far. Why rank him as such?
