Mangini Fired (1 Viewer)

[Utter Chaos]

Put me in the camp that thinks this was a mistake.

I agree. The fact that they beat the Patriots with a roster that has very little talent gave me hope. 10 of their 16 games were against teams that won 10 games or more. They didn't have the talent to win against a schedule like that. Of the 11 losses, 6 or 7 of them were games they had a chance to win. At least 3 of them, they should be embarrassed about:1. Cincinnati2. Buffalo3. Jacksonville - how do you lose when your defense gets 6 turnovers?2 others they should have won:1. Tampa Bay - 17-14 - TB scores TDs in the last 2 minutes of each half2. Kansas City - 16-14 - KC has a pick 6 and 3 FGsWe found out later that both of them would win 10 games. Overall a very competitive season, they just couldn't manage the clock, make the play when they needed to or get a big stop at the end of games. I guess when you look at it that way, a new coach might not hurt?

Don't forget the Jets game where they were marching toward a potential GW field goal in overtime when Sutckey lost a fumble. Also they were up on Atlanta 10 to 6 late in the 3rd quarter. The probably would have won both the TB and Kc games if they had used Peyton Hillis more (9 and 8 carriers repectively). They were 5 and 4 in games where he had 15 or more carriers.

 

[guest 1553]

Put me in the camp that thinks this was a mistake.

 

[Fensalk]

My recollection was Holmgren had problems in a dual head coach/GM position in Seattle. Once he gave up on the GM duties and focused solely on coaching the team did much better. The team is better off letting him stay in a GM role so he can focus his attention on being a GM. Schefter speculated on Mike and Mike this morning that Morninwheg could end up being the head coach there. As a Lions fan, I just can't believe someone would want to hire that guy as a head coach.

Holmgren isn't the GM in Cleveland. He is the President. Heckert is the GM and picks the players. So if he became the coach, he would solely focus on coaching.

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

Heckert is the GM and picks the players.

Do you really believe that Holmgren isn't involved significantly in selecting and acquiring talent?

 

[5Rings]

would holmgren come back to the sideline?

This is surprising to me actually I thought that the browns overachieved. But Holmgren doesnt have "his guy" in the HC position

I think after beating the Saints and Patriots in back to back games, there was some thought that Cleveland was better than its record, but things really fell off a cliff from there. Not sure how you can fairly characterize this team as overachieving. They were 5-11, has the 2nd worst offense in the league, and lost 6 of their last 8 and all of their final 4 games.

thats over acheiving. Seriously with McCoy/Delhomme/Wallace at QB this is a 2 win team at best.

bottom 5 team in talent, imo

 

[Fensalk]

Heckert is the GM and picks the players.

Do you really believe that Holmgren isn't involved significantly in selecting and acquiring talent?

Yes because Heckert is a very respected man in NFL circles and he wouldn't leave Philadelphia to take a figurehead position. He would have to be in charge of personnel.

 

[guest 1553]

Mangini started 1-11. Over the following 20 games he is 9-11. Certainly not wonderful, but he clearly showed that the team was heading in the right direction. This team needed a coach to come in and kill the country club mentality that was rampant under Crennel. He did that. Penalties, which are a key indicator of team discipline, dropped dramatically from the prior regime. He got rid of locker room cancers in Winslow and Edwards. The defense was substantially better, thanks in no small part to Hayden, Ward, Fujita, etc, who were all acquired after Mangini arrived (I know Heckert drafted Hayden and Ward).

Mangini's downfall was Brian Daboll. He should have gotten another couple of years with an OC that he and Holmgren could agree upon.

 

[Fensalk]

I'm going to wait until we see who the new head coach is before passing judgement. If Holmgren thinks he can upgrade the head coach, shouldn't he do so?

 

[guest 1553]

Schefter reporting that the Browns requested permission to speak with Giants DC Perry Fewell.

 

[munchkin]

What is Mangini's strength? I can't think of any. I can see his weaknesses. Poor clock management. Inability to adjust at halftime. Poor talent evaluation.

I don't remember (as a Jets fan) Mangini's weakness being poor clock management (although you are talking to a guy who had to endure Herm Edwards, so anything is an improvement). He is set in his ways, so I see the "ability to adjust at halftime" as a major "con" against him. I don't think his talent evaluation is poor...he is responsible for bringing in Thomas Jones (a high-pick bust at the time with just one good year under his belt) to the Jets and trading for Peyton Hillis, when ANYONE could have had him for a song. His biggest whiff was Vernon Gholston...but if you remember, that year the Jets picked 7th...and there were 7 "elite" guys followed by a supposed dropoff to Jerod Mayo...Everyone had those top 7 players in some type of order, but always, each was in the top 7. At the draft, no one slipped and he/Tannenbaum were stuck with the weakest of the 7, Gholston. I know I sound like an apologist, but I just don't think he is THAT bad as he is made out to be. This is probably the end for him being an NFL head coach, but he will certainly be on the Coordinator circuit for a while if he chooses not to be a HC for a university...

Good points. The problem is taking Massaquoi, Robiskie, and Veikune in the 2nd round in 2009. He blew all three 2nd round picks. In fact, outside of Alex Mack, did Mangini add anything during the one year he picked the players?

Massaquoi and Robiskie were top ten receivers coming out of college. That they haven't panned out also has something to do with the QB situation over the last couple of seasons. Going into their third season the book likely isn't closed on them. I am not saying either of them are Crabtree but how has he worked out with the poor QB play he has had to deal with.

 

[wadegarrett]

Schefter reporting that the Browns requested permission to speak with Giants DC Perry Fewell.

Rooney Rule

 

[Fallerjw]

Mangini started 1-11. Over the following 20 games he is 9-11. Certainly not wonderful, but he clearly showed that the team was heading in the right direction. This team needed a coach to come in and kill the country club mentality that was rampant under Crennel. He did that. Penalties, which are a key indicator of team discipline, dropped dramatically from the prior regime. He got rid of locker room cancers in Winslow and Edwards. The defense was substantially better, thanks in no small part to Hayden, Ward, Fujita, etc, who were all acquired after Mangini arrived (I know Heckert drafted Hayden and Ward).

Mangini's downfall was Brian Daboll. He should have gotten another couple of years with an OC that he and Holmgren could agree upon.

Combination of Daboll and no starting NFL caliber WRs

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

Schefter reporting that the Browns requested permission to speak with Giants DC Perry Fewell.

Rooney Rule

Fewell is a legitimate HC candidate, but I agree that in this case this is just Rooney Rule. Holmgren already knows who the next coach of the Browns will be.

 

[MAC_32]

Two completely different philosophies on how to play the game are why Mangini's gone, Holmgren doesn't believe Mangini's philosophy works in this game so that's why he's going in a different direction.

 

[Adebisi]

I'm glad he got fired. Guy is a jerk.

 

[cvnpoka]

how many games did they lose bc of delhomme? and isnt delhomme a holmgren?

 

[Random]

Schefter reporting that the Browns requested permission to speak with Giants DC Perry Fewell.

Rooney Rule

Fewell is a legitimate HC candidate, but I agree that in this case this is just Rooney Rule. Holmgren already knows who the next coach of the Browns will be.

I agree here. I also think the only way he could know who the next coach will be at this point is if its him. I hope so anyway.

 

[Jason Wood]

Are Browns fans bothered by Holmgren suggesting he can't guarantee he won't coach again someday? I would've understood it more if he positioned it specifically in regards to the Browns job, but we was talking open ended. Do you want your team president having coaching wanderlust? What happens if Mike brings "his guy" into the fold this year and then bounces to coach somewhere else in a season or two?

 

[amnesiac]

Are Browns fans bothered by Holmgren suggesting he can't guarantee he won't coach again someday? I would've understood it more if he positioned it specifically in regards to the Browns job, but we was talking open ended. Do you want your team president having coaching wanderlust? What happens if Mike brings "his guy" into the fold this year and then bounces to coach somewhere else in a season or two?

not really. if he gets the right people in place before he leaves, and the franchise is stable and heading in the right direction, why would i care if he leaves in a few years? isn't that all Parcells did down in Miami? and people generally give him credit for the job he did there, don't they?i suppose i would rather see Holmgren stick around for 10 years or so, but i don't really see it as that big of a deal if he doesn't.

 

[amnesiac]

also i think Mangini deserved one more year.

but if they win 9 games next year, who can argue with making the move?

 

[Sweet Love]

also i think Mangini deserved one more year.but if they win 9 games next year, who can argue with making the move?

But wouldn't you be wondering whether they got to 9 wins "because of" or "in spite of" what Mangini did?