Martz hired by San Fran (1 Viewer)

[Dope]

From PFT:

49ERS HIRE MIKE MARTZ by Michael David Smith

Adam Schefter of NFL Network is reporting that the San Francisco 49ers have hired Mike Martz as their new offensive coordinator.

Martz replaces Jim Hostler, who had one disastrous year as the 49ers' offensive coordinator. Martz spent the last two years as the offensive coordinator in Detroit, and seven years before that in St. Louis, first as offensive coordinator and then as head coach.

Martz will now be tasked with the difficult job of making Alex Smith look like the franchise quarterback the 49ers thought he was when they chose him with the first pick in the 2005 NFL draft. This season Smith was limited by injury to just seven games, and he had a completion percentage of 48.7 percent, with two touchdowns and four interceptions.

This development makes agent Bob LaMont a powerful figure in San Francisco: LaMont represents Martz, head coach Mike Nolan and assistant head coach-defense Mike Singletary.

Who benefits?

Arnez Battle comes to mind

 

[Ghost Rider]

Despite what some will think, this raises Frank Gore's value. If he stays healthy, he will now catch 60-70 balls (at least), he will run for at least 1,200 yards, and he will score more.

Yes, Martz loves throwing the ball, but when he has had a stud at RB, he has used him. Gore is a stud, and Martz will use him like crazy.

 

[switz]

Despite what some will think, this raises Frank Gore's value. If he stays healthy, he will now catch 60-70 balls (at least), he will run for at least 1,200 yards, and he will score more.Yes, Martz loves throwing the ball, but when he has had a stud at RB, he has used him. Gore is a stud, and Martz will use him like crazy.

Also, DJax will likely benefit the most at WR, he is their most polished route runner, and that is important in Martz's scheme.

 

[Eephus]

So what becomes of Vernon Davis? Martz' offenses have never featured the TE.

 

[softball]

So what becomes of Vernon Davis? Martz' offenses have never featured the TE.

DOA

 

[Mr. Peterson]

So what becomes of Vernon Davis? Martz' offenses have never featured the TE.

Watch out for Jason Hill. It's always the guys you never think about like Furry and McDonald.

 

[Warpig]

So what becomes of Vernon Davis? Martz' offenses have never featured the TE.

DOA

Unless they can split him out to be a WR.And I don't agree with the comments about Gore catching 50-60 balls. He drops a few notches in my book.

 

[sheerterror]

So what becomes of Vernon Davis? Martz' offenses have never featured the TE.

Has Martz ever had a TE as seemingly talented as Davis?

 

[dgreen]

So what becomes of Vernon Davis? Martz' offenses have never featured the TE.

I'd hope Martz is smart enough to utilize what he has. I can't imagine he'd ignore Davis.

 

[North]

I DON'T think this is good news for San Fran b/c I don't think Alex Smith is the type of QB that fits in well in his system.

Really, what has Martz done in the NFL besides manage an explosive offense in St. Louis. The pieces were in place in St. Louis, I really don't think he had much to do with their success. He turns teams into one-dimesional systems and puts a lot of strain on QB's.

Downgrade Gore next year. Just because Faulk had success catching passes in the St. Louis system doesn't mean Gore will have the same success. Gore does NOT= Faulk.

Martz belongs in college football running some crazy offensive scheme at that level, where the QB throws the ball 50 times a game. Not in the NFL.

 

[switz]

So what becomes of Vernon Davis? Martz' offenses have never featured the TE.

While never featuring a TE, the TEs did get about 50 receptions during their SB run where they lost to NE. However, Martz has never had a talent like Davis either.

 

[dgreen]

I DON'T think this is good news for San Fran b/c I don't think Alex Smith is the type of QB that fits in well in his system.

Maybe they're going to move on from Smith and bring in someone else?

 

[ShadowMaster]

Despite what some will think, this raises Frank Gore's value. If he stays healthy, he will now catch 60-70 balls (at least), he will run for at least 1,200 yards, and he will score more.Yes, Martz loves throwing the ball, but when he has had a stud at RB, he has used him. Gore is a stud, and Martz will use him like crazy.

I disagree. Faulks best years were with DV running the show and Martz as OC. Since then, Martz has gone pass happy to the extreme.Nothing in the Det/KJ numbers from 2007 indicate we should raise the value of Gore with this news. If anything, it probably drops.Det 2007 - 324 rushes, 587 passes (64.5%)KJ 2007 - 153 carries for 581, 32 catches for 197 and 8 TDsOnly 20+ carries in 3 games (20, 23, 23)8 games with 11 carries or LESS! (ACTIVE GAMES - 11 of 17 games if you count the missed games for his injury)

 

[silvergold]

As a 49er fan, I don't like this move at all. Smith is not capable of running his offence, we don't have the wr's and this will hurt gore. Not too mention our o-line is questionable at best and this could open up smith for some punishment.

i also agree with an earlier poster, he was handed the talent in st. louis and really ended up blowing it. he stunk in detroit and all the lions fans i know were very happy to see him go

 

[maxwelledison]

I DON'T think this is good news for San Fran b/c I don't think Alex Smith is the type of QB that fits in well in his system.Really, what has Martz done in the NFL besides manage an explosive offense in St. Louis. The pieces were in place in St. Louis, I really don't think he had much to do with their success. He turns teams into one-dimesional systems and puts a lot of strain on QB's.Downgrade Gore next year. Just because Faulk had success catching passes in the St. Louis system doesn't mean Gore will have the same success. Gore does NOT= Faulk.Martz belongs in college football running some crazy offensive scheme at that level, where the QB throws the ball 50 times a game. Not in the NFL.

Very

 

[Ghost Rider]

Really, what has Martz done in the NFL besides manage an explosive offense in St. Louis. The pieces were in place in St. Louis, I really don't think he had much to do with their success.

That is wrong. It was well-documented that Vermeil wanted to go into the '99 season with Tony Banks as the Rams starting QB. Martz convinced him that he was terrible, and that signing Trent Green was the right move (which did work when Green went down, and Warner took over). Does anyone really think the Rams would have come close to winning the Super Bowl that year with Tony Banks as their starting QB?And while Faulk was great in Indy, he became a super-stud in St. Louis thanks to how Martz used him.

 

[Jason Wood]

Mike Martz has shown he can get productive passing games out of pedestrian QBs (or at least QBs that were perceived as pedestrian prior to his tutelage) but absent an very good pass-blocking offensive line, he is a detriment to his team's success IMHO. The question 49ers fans should be asking themselves = how close is the 49ers O-line from being elite?

 

[redman]

Here's some early footage on Alex Smith eluding the pass rush:

 

[mozzy84]

how long can this guy swing from warner, faulk, holt and bruces jock. Faulk could have been way better fantasy wise and real life if it weren't for martz, the guy just doesn't run the ball. I don't see this as a good thing for gore or san fran at all, he just not a good coach imo...

 

[dgreen]

Faulk could have been way better fantasy wise and real life if it weren't for martz...

Good grief. What kind of projections would you make for Faulk without Martz?

 

[fruity pebbles]

Despite what some will think, this raises Frank Gore's value. If he stays healthy, he will now catch 60-70 balls (at least), he will run for at least 1,200 yards, and he will score more.Yes, Martz loves throwing the ball, but when he has had a stud at RB, he has used him. Gore is a stud, and Martz will use him like crazy.

I disagree. Faulks best years were with DV running the show and Martz as OC. Since then, Martz has gone pass happy to the extreme.Nothing in the Det/KJ numbers from 2007 indicate we should raise the value of Gore with this news. If anything, it probably drops.Det 2007 - 324 rushes, 587 passes (64.5%)KJ 2007 - 153 carries for 581, 32 catches for 197 and 8 TDsOnly 20+ carries in 3 games (20, 23, 23)8 games with 11 carries or LESS! (ACTIVE GAMES - 11 of 17 games if you count the missed games for his injury)

2006 is probably a better guide when determining Kevin Jones value. This year he was coming off a major career threatening injury and was oft injured during the season. During 2006 he played in 12 games and had 1200 yards and 8 TDs with 60 catches. Prorated over 16 games that's 1600 yards 80 catches and 10 TDs. And KJ isn't half the runningback Gore is.

 

[silvergold]

plus he has a big pretty big ego and so does nolan....doesn't seem like it will mesh to me

 

[dgreen]

plus he has a big pretty big ego and so does nolan....doesn't seem like it will mesh to me

I think all NFL coaches have egos.

 

[silvergold]

alright then, neither of these particular guys seem to be team players...

 

[North]

Really, what has Martz done in the NFL besides manage an explosive offense in St. Louis. The pieces were in place in St. Louis, I really don't think he had much to do with their success.

That is wrong. It was well-documented that Vermeil wanted to go into the '99 season with Tony Banks as the Rams starting QB. Martz convinced him that he was terrible, and that signing Trent Green was the right move (which did work when Green went down, and Warner took over). Does anyone really think the Rams would have come close to winning the Super Bowl that year with Tony Banks as their starting QB?And while Faulk was great in Indy, he became a super-stud in St. Louis thanks to how Martz used him.

So your argument is that because Martz convinced Vermil to go with a guy who got injuried, he knew what he was doing? What if Vermil had went with Banks and Banks got injuried and Warner came in, is the genius now Vermil?Faulk would have been a "super-stud" in either offense. I "doubt" Martz really had much to do with Faulks talent. Martz has been cashing paychecks because of the talent he managed in St. Louis.THERE IS A REASON HE COULDN'T EVEN KEEP A JOB IN DETROIT!!!!

 

[dgreen]

Really, what has Martz done in the NFL besides manage an explosive offense in St. Louis. The pieces were in place in St. Louis, I really don't think he had much to do with their success.

That is wrong. It was well-documented that Vermeil wanted to go into the '99 season with Tony Banks as the Rams starting QB. Martz convinced him that he was terrible, and that signing Trent Green was the right move (which did work when Green went down, and Warner took over). Does anyone really think the Rams would have come close to winning the Super Bowl that year with Tony Banks as their starting QB?And while Faulk was great in Indy, he became a super-stud in St. Louis thanks to how Martz used him.

So your argument is that because Martz convinced Vermil to go with a guy who got injuried, he knew what he was doing? What if Vermil had went with Banks and Banks got injuried and Warner came in, is the genius now Vermil?Faulk would have been a "super-stud" in either offense. I "doubt" Martz really had much to do with Faulks talent. Martz has been cashing paychecks because of the talent he managed in St. Louis.THERE IS A REASON HE COULDN'T EVEN KEEP A JOB IN DETROIT!!!!

I think his point is Trent Green >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tony Banks.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Really, what has Martz done in the NFL besides manage an explosive offense in St. Louis. The pieces were in place in St. Louis, I really don't think he had much to do with their success.

That is wrong. It was well-documented that Vermeil wanted to go into the '99 season with Tony Banks as the Rams starting QB. Martz convinced him that he was terrible, and that signing Trent Green was the right move (which did work when Green went down, and Warner took over). Does anyone really think the Rams would have come close to winning the Super Bowl that year with Tony Banks as their starting QB?And while Faulk was great in Indy, he became a super-stud in St. Louis thanks to how Martz used him.

So your argument is that because Martz convinced Vermil to go with a guy who got injuried, he knew what he was doing? What if Vermil had went with Banks and Banks got injuried and Warner came in, is the genius now Vermil?

That didn't happen, so it really doesn't matter, does it?

Faulk would have been a "super-stud" in either offense. I "doubt" Martz really had much to do with Faulks talent. Martz has been cashing paychecks because of the talent he managed in St. Louis.

Warner, Faulk, Holt, and Bruce (who admittedly was already a stud; see his '95 season) all had their most productive stretches of their career under Mike Martz.

THERE IS A REASON HE COULDN'T EVEN KEEP A JOB IN DETROIT!!!!

And Matt Millen can keep a job in Detroit! What does that tell you?

 

[Jason Wood]

how long can this guy swing from warner, faulk, holt and bruces jock. Faulk could have been way better fantasy wise and real life if it weren't for martz, the guy just doesn't run the ball. I don't see this as a good thing for gore or san fran at all, he just not a good coach imo...

Faulk is actually one of the few HOF caliber backs where that kind of comparison can be made pretty easily; by virtue of Faulk's time with the Colts. People seem to forget that Faulk went to 3 of his 7 Pro Bowls as a Colt, and earned 3 of his 6 All Pro nods in Indy.Let's compare his All Pro seasons against one another:

*** Faulk, the Colt ['94, '95, '98]

47 games played

927 attempts

3,679 rushing yards (78 per game)

3.97 yards per rush

28 rushing TDs

194 receptions

1,905 receiving yards (41 per game)

8 receiving TDs

16.5 fantasy points per game (non-PPR)

20.6 fantasy points per game (PPR)

*** Faulk, the Ram ['99, '00, '01]

44 games played

766 attempts

4122 rushing yards (94 per game)

5.4 yards per rush

37 rushing TDs

251 receptions

2643 receiving yards (60 per game)

22 receiving TDs

23.4 fantasy points per game (non-PPR)

29.1 fantasy points per game (PPR)

Faulk was an ELITE NFL back, an All Pro in three of his first five seasons in the league as a Colt. In those three years, he was the 4th, 6th and 3rd best fantasy RB. There was little reason to think he could improve much from those tallies upon his trade to St. Louis. Yet, under Martz' play-calling, he not only improved, but he demolished his personal records in nearly every category.

*** 21% more rushing yards per game (on fewer attempts)

*** 35% improvement in average yards per carry

*** 32% more rushing TDs (again in fewer attempts)

*** 29% more receptions

*** 46% more receiving yards per game

*** 3x the receiving TDs

*** 42% more fantasy points per game (non PPR)

*** 41% more fantasy points per game (PPR)

Say what you will about Martz (and I'm not his biggest fan), but there's absolutely no indication that Faulk could've or would've had better fantasy numbers under another coach.

 

[gianmarco]

how long can this guy swing from warner, faulk, holt and bruces jock. Faulk could have been way better fantasy wise and real life if it weren't for martz, the guy just doesn't run the ball. I don't see this as a good thing for gore or san fran at all, he just not a good coach imo...

Faulk is actually one of the few HOF caliber backs where that kind of comparison can be made pretty easily; by virtue of Faulk's time with the Colts. People seem to forget that Faulk went to 3 of his 7 Pro Bowls as a Colt, and earned 3 of his 6 All Pro nods in Indy.Let's compare his All Pro seasons against one another:

*** Faulk, the Colt ['94, '95, '98]

47 games played

927 attempts

3,679 rushing yards (78 per game)

3.97 yards per rush

28 rushing TDs

194 receptions

1,905 receiving yards (41 per game)

8 receiving TDs

16.5 fantasy points per game (non-PPR)

20.6 fantasy points per game (PPR)

*** Faulk, the Ram ['99, '00, '01]

44 games played

766 attempts

4122 rushing yards (94 per game)

5.4 yards per rush

37 rushing TDs

251 receptions

2643 receiving yards (60 per game)

22 receiving TDs

23.4 fantasy points per game (non-PPR)

29.1 fantasy points per game (PPR)

Faulk was an ELITE NFL back, an All Pro in three of his first five seasons in the league as a Colt. In those three years, he was the 4th, 6th and 3rd best fantasy RB. There was little reason to think he could improve much from those tallies upon his trade to St. Louis. Yet, under Martz' play-calling, he not only improved, but he demolished his personal records in nearly every category.

*** 21% more rushing yards per game (on fewer attempts)

*** 35% improvement in average yards per carry

*** 32% more rushing TDs (again in fewer attempts)

*** 29% more receptions

*** 46% more receiving yards per game

*** 3x the receiving TDs

*** 42% more fantasy points per game (non PPR)

*** 41% more fantasy points per game (PPR)

Say what you will about Martz (and I'm not his biggest fan), but there's absolutely no indication that Faulk could've or would've had better fantasy numbers under another coach.

I personally hate the "owned" icon, but if ever a time to use it.........

 

[Ghost Rider]

how long can this guy swing from warner, faulk, holt and bruces jock. Faulk could have been way better fantasy wise and real life if it weren't for martz, the guy just doesn't run the ball. I don't see this as a good thing for gore or san fran at all, he just not a good coach imo...

Faulk is actually one of the few HOF caliber backs where that kind of comparison can be made pretty easily; by virtue of Faulk's time with the Colts. People seem to forget that Faulk went to 3 of his 7 Pro Bowls as a Colt, and earned 3 of his 6 All Pro nods in Indy.Let's compare his All Pro seasons against one another:

*** Faulk, the Colt ['94, '95, '98]

47 games played

927 attempts

3,679 rushing yards (78 per game)

3.97 yards per rush

28 rushing TDs

194 receptions

1,905 receiving yards (41 per game)

8 receiving TDs

16.5 fantasy points per game (non-PPR)

20.6 fantasy points per game (PPR)

*** Faulk, the Ram ['99, '00, '01]

44 games played

766 attempts

4122 rushing yards (94 per game)

5.4 yards per rush

37 rushing TDs

251 receptions

2643 receiving yards (60 per game)

22 receiving TDs

23.4 fantasy points per game (non-PPR)

29.1 fantasy points per game (PPR)

Faulk was an ELITE NFL back, an All Pro in three of his first five seasons in the league as a Colt. In those three years, he was the 4th, 6th and 3rd best fantasy RB. There was little reason to think he could improve much from those tallies upon his trade to St. Louis. Yet, under Martz' play-calling, he not only improved, but he demolished his personal records in nearly every category.

*** 21% more rushing yards per game (on fewer attempts)

*** 35% improvement in average yards per carry

*** 32% more rushing TDs (again in fewer attempts)

*** 29% more receptions

*** 46% more receiving yards per game

*** 3x the receiving TDs

*** 42% more fantasy points per game (non PPR)

*** 41% more fantasy points per game (PPR)

Say what you will about Martz (and I'm not his biggest fan), but there's absolutely no indication that Faulk could've or would've had better fantasy numbers under another coach.

Thank you. Like I have said before, I am not a big fan of Martz's either, but too many people say that he is death to a RB as far as numbers or fantasy football are concerned, and that is just plain wrong. Heck, Kevin freaking Jones caught over 60 balls in Martz's offense in '06! Imagine what damage Frank Gore, a better pass catcher and all-around player than KJ, will do under Martz.

 

[dlptown]

Local- I watched most of their games and went to 2 this season. This is a good thing in that they played so conservatively that anyone could have improved the offense and if nothing else should bring some imagination to the play calling that was absent this year- although, they did bring in Ted Tollner in as a consultant, and they opened things up a bit after that. I really like what it does for Gore, but it will be interesting to see what Martz is able to do with Lelie and Jackson who didn't do much this year, along with whoever the QB is- personally, I would like to see a Losman/Pennington brought in to compete for the position.

 

[Amigo de Fro]

Niners season ticket holder here.

I'm not convinced Martz is the answer for the Niners organization but I am encouraged at least somewhat at the hiring as the Niners offensive play calling was so bad last year, I can only think that they will be more effective and at the least more exciting to watch. I have never seen such poor play calling this last year of any team in the NFL ever.

 

[KCC]

how long can this guy swing from warner, faulk, holt and bruces jock. Faulk could have been way better fantasy wise and real life if it weren't for martz, the guy just doesn't run the ball. I don't see this as a good thing for gore or san fran at all, he just not a good coach imo...

Faulk is actually one of the few HOF caliber backs where that kind of comparison can be made pretty easily; by virtue of Faulk's time with the Colts. People seem to forget that Faulk went to 3 of his 7 Pro Bowls as a Colt, and earned 3 of his 6 All Pro nods in Indy.Let's compare his All Pro seasons against one another:

*** Faulk, the Colt ['94, '95, '98]

47 games played

927 attempts

3,679 rushing yards (78 per game)

3.97 yards per rush

28 rushing TDs

194 receptions

1,905 receiving yards (41 per game)

8 receiving TDs

16.5 fantasy points per game (non-PPR)

20.6 fantasy points per game (PPR)

*** Faulk, the Ram ['99, '00, '01]

44 games played

766 attempts

4122 rushing yards (94 per game)

5.4 yards per rush

37 rushing TDs

251 receptions

2643 receiving yards (60 per game)

22 receiving TDs

23.4 fantasy points per game (non-PPR)

29.1 fantasy points per game (PPR)

Faulk was an ELITE NFL back, an All Pro in three of his first five seasons in the league as a Colt. In those three years, he was the 4th, 6th and 3rd best fantasy RB. There was little reason to think he could improve much from those tallies upon his trade to St. Louis. Yet, under Martz' play-calling, he not only improved, but he demolished his personal records in nearly every category.

*** 21% more rushing yards per game (on fewer attempts)

*** 35% improvement in average yards per carry

*** 32% more rushing TDs (again in fewer attempts)

*** 29% more receptions

*** 46% more receiving yards per game

*** 3x the receiving TDs

*** 42% more fantasy points per game (non PPR)

*** 41% more fantasy points per game (PPR)

Say what you will about Martz (and I'm not his biggest fan), but there's absolutely no indication that Faulk could've or would've had better fantasy numbers under another coach.

Based on the impact each had with RB production following their tenures in St. Louis, I would be more likely to credit Vermeil with those increased stats than Martz.

 

[GregR_2]

Despite what some will think, this raises Frank Gore's value. If he stays healthy, he will now catch 60-70 balls (at least), he will run for at least 1,200 yards, and he will score more.

Yes, Martz loves throwing the ball, but when he has had a stud at RB, he has used him. Gore is a stud, and Martz will use him like crazy.

I disagree. Faulks best years were with DV running the show and Martz as OC. Since then, Martz has gone pass happy to the extreme.Nothing in the Det/KJ numbers from 2007 indicate we should raise the value of Gore with this news. If anything, it probably drops.

Det 2007 - 324 rushes, 587 passes (64.5%)

KJ 2007 - 153 carries for 581, 32 catches for 197 and 8 TDs

Only 20+ carries in 3 games (20, 23, 23)

8 games with 11 carries or LESS! (ACTIVE GAMES - 11 of 17 games if you count the missed games for his injury)

2006 is probably a better guide when determining Kevin Jones value. This year he was coming off a major career threatening injury and was oft injured during the season. During 2006 he played in 12 games and had 1200 yards and 8 TDs with 60 catches. Prorated over 16 games that's 1600 yards 80 catches and 10 TDs. And KJ isn't half the runningback Gore is.

To build on the KJ comparisons... Year Age Tm Pos G GS Att Yds TD Lng Y/A Y/G A/G Rec Yds Y/R TD Lng R/G Y/G YScm RRTD Fmb

2004 22 DET RB 15 14 241 1133 5 74 4.7 75.5 16.1 28 180 6.4 1 34 1.9 12.0 1313 6 2

2005 23 DET RB 13 13 186 664 5 40 3.6 51.1 14.3 20 109 5.5 0 28 1.5 8.4 773 5 2

2006 24 DET RB 12 12 181 689 6 52 3.8 57.4 15.1 61 520 8.5 2 26 5.1 43.3 1209 8 5

2007 25 DET 13 153 581 8 3.8 44.7 11.8 33 199 6.0 0 2.5 15.3 780 8 2

His 2005 and 2006 rushing numbers are close enough to identical, but his receptions tripled from 20 to 61, adding another 410 receiving yards and 2 extra receiving TDs.

The other big number that jumps out at me there is his ypc being 4.7 his rookie years, then dropping to 3.6, and staying relatively low at 3.8 both years with Martz. Debating how meaningful that is to Martz... the running game didn't improve... is that a reflection of Millen's drafting and personnel moves on the O-line not being any better? Or does it mean he wasn't there long enough to effect improvement on the O-line and in the running game? Or does it mean don't expect Martz to make the O-line any better (which is where I might tend to lean).

 

[Jason Wood]

how long can this guy swing from warner, faulk, holt and bruces jock. Faulk could have been way better fantasy wise and real life if it weren't for martz, the guy just doesn't run the ball. I don't see this as a good thing for gore or san fran at all, he just not a good coach imo...

Faulk is actually one of the few HOF caliber backs where that kind of comparison can be made pretty easily; by virtue of Faulk's time with the Colts. People seem to forget that Faulk went to 3 of his 7 Pro Bowls as a Colt, and earned 3 of his 6 All Pro nods in Indy.Let's compare his All Pro seasons against one another:

*** Faulk, the Colt ['94, '95, '98]

47 games played

927 attempts

3,679 rushing yards (78 per game)

3.97 yards per rush

28 rushing TDs

194 receptions

1,905 receiving yards (41 per game)

8 receiving TDs

16.5 fantasy points per game (non-PPR)

20.6 fantasy points per game (PPR)

*** Faulk, the Ram ['99, '00, '01]

44 games played

766 attempts

4122 rushing yards (94 per game)

5.4 yards per rush

37 rushing TDs

251 receptions

2643 receiving yards (60 per game)

22 receiving TDs

23.4 fantasy points per game (non-PPR)

29.1 fantasy points per game (PPR)

Faulk was an ELITE NFL back, an All Pro in three of his first five seasons in the league as a Colt. In those three years, he was the 4th, 6th and 3rd best fantasy RB. There was little reason to think he could improve much from those tallies upon his trade to St. Louis. Yet, under Martz' play-calling, he not only improved, but he demolished his personal records in nearly every category.

*** 21% more rushing yards per game (on fewer attempts)

*** 35% improvement in average yards per carry

*** 32% more rushing TDs (again in fewer attempts)

*** 29% more receptions

*** 46% more receiving yards per game

*** 3x the receiving TDs

*** 42% more fantasy points per game (non PPR)

*** 41% more fantasy points per game (PPR)

Say what you will about Martz (and I'm not his biggest fan), but there's absolutely no indication that Faulk could've or would've had better fantasy numbers under another coach.

Based on the impact each had with RB production following their tenures in St. Louis, I would be more likely to credit Vermeil with those increased stats than Martz.

Why? Vermeil didn't call the plays...

 

[millerarm]

49ers fan all my life, through thick and thin. My take? We Niner fans have been spoiled by predominantly good, if not great, offenses thru the years - and the last few have sucked. Simply not acceptable and ownership obviously understands this. Ownerships knee-jerk reaction was to sign the best offensive brain out there (though this is clearly a misperception, IMO). Verdict? Who the heck knows, but the offense cannot be worse off than last year. I'm sure they'll bring in a weapon or two to compliment Gore and Vernon. Smith? They'll give him one more shot - but he could be a backup by mid-season.

 

[Ghost Rider]

how long can this guy swing from warner, faulk, holt and bruces jock. Faulk could have been way better fantasy wise and real life if it weren't for martz, the guy just doesn't run the ball. I don't see this as a good thing for gore or san fran at all, he just not a good coach imo...

Faulk is actually one of the few HOF caliber backs where that kind of comparison can be made pretty easily; by virtue of Faulk's time with the Colts. People seem to forget that Faulk went to 3 of his 7 Pro Bowls as a Colt, and earned 3 of his 6 All Pro nods in Indy.Let's compare his All Pro seasons against one another:

*** Faulk, the Colt ['94, '95, '98]

47 games played

927 attempts

3,679 rushing yards (78 per game)

3.97 yards per rush

28 rushing TDs

194 receptions

1,905 receiving yards (41 per game)

8 receiving TDs

16.5 fantasy points per game (non-PPR)

20.6 fantasy points per game (PPR)

*** Faulk, the Ram ['99, '00, '01]

44 games played

766 attempts

4122 rushing yards (94 per game)

5.4 yards per rush

37 rushing TDs

251 receptions

2643 receiving yards (60 per game)

22 receiving TDs

23.4 fantasy points per game (non-PPR)

29.1 fantasy points per game (PPR)

Faulk was an ELITE NFL back, an All Pro in three of his first five seasons in the league as a Colt. In those three years, he was the 4th, 6th and 3rd best fantasy RB. There was little reason to think he could improve much from those tallies upon his trade to St. Louis. Yet, under Martz' play-calling, he not only improved, but he demolished his personal records in nearly every category.

*** 21% more rushing yards per game (on fewer attempts)

*** 35% improvement in average yards per carry

*** 32% more rushing TDs (again in fewer attempts)

*** 29% more receptions

*** 46% more receiving yards per game

*** 3x the receiving TDs

*** 42% more fantasy points per game (non PPR)

*** 41% more fantasy points per game (PPR)

Say what you will about Martz (and I'm not his biggest fan), but there's absolutely no indication that Faulk could've or would've had better fantasy numbers under another coach.

Based on the impact each had with RB production following their tenures in St. Louis, I would be more likely to credit Vermeil with those increased stats than Martz.

Why? Vermeil didn't call the plays...

Exactly. Al Saunders deserves more credit for how well the KC offense did under Vermeil's tutelage. Vermeil is more of a defense and motivational guy; offense is not his forte.

 

[KCC]

how long can this guy swing from warner, faulk, holt and bruces jock. Faulk could have been way better fantasy wise and real life if it weren't for martz, the guy just doesn't run the ball. I don't see this as a good thing for gore or san fran at all, he just not a good coach imo...

Faulk is actually one of the few HOF caliber backs where that kind of comparison can be made pretty easily; by virtue of Faulk's time with the Colts. People seem to forget that Faulk went to 3 of his 7 Pro Bowls as a Colt, and earned 3 of his 6 All Pro nods in Indy.Let's compare his All Pro seasons against one another:

*** Faulk, the Colt ['94, '95, '98]

47 games played

927 attempts

3,679 rushing yards (78 per game)

3.97 yards per rush

28 rushing TDs

194 receptions

1,905 receiving yards (41 per game)

8 receiving TDs

16.5 fantasy points per game (non-PPR)

20.6 fantasy points per game (PPR)

*** Faulk, the Ram ['99, '00, '01]

44 games played

766 attempts

4122 rushing yards (94 per game)

5.4 yards per rush

37 rushing TDs

251 receptions

2643 receiving yards (60 per game)

22 receiving TDs

23.4 fantasy points per game (non-PPR)

29.1 fantasy points per game (PPR)

Faulk was an ELITE NFL back, an All Pro in three of his first five seasons in the league as a Colt. In those three years, he was the 4th, 6th and 3rd best fantasy RB. There was little reason to think he could improve much from those tallies upon his trade to St. Louis. Yet, under Martz' play-calling, he not only improved, but he demolished his personal records in nearly every category.

*** 21% more rushing yards per game (on fewer attempts)

*** 35% improvement in average yards per carry

*** 32% more rushing TDs (again in fewer attempts)

*** 29% more receptions

*** 46% more receiving yards per game

*** 3x the receiving TDs

*** 42% more fantasy points per game (non PPR)

*** 41% more fantasy points per game (PPR)

Say what you will about Martz (and I'm not his biggest fan), but there's absolutely no indication that Faulk could've or would've had better fantasy numbers under another coach.

Based on the impact each had with RB production following their tenures in St. Louis, I would be more likely to credit Vermeil with those increased stats than Martz.

Why? Vermeil didn't call the plays...

No, but it was Vermeil's offensive philosophy that impacted those numbers, the same offense he also installed and ran successfully in KC to transform Holmes numbers in a similar way as Faulk's. See the above post listing KJ's numbers in Detroit pre & post Martz's play calling.

 

[Ghost Rider]

No, but it was Vermeil's offensive philosophy that impacted those numbers, the same offense he also installed and ran successfully in KC to transform Holmes numbers in a similar way as Faulk's. See the above post listing KJ's numbers in Detroit pre & post Martz's play calling.

See my previous post. That was not Vermeil who installed that offense in KC; it was Al Saunders.

 

[Jason Wood]

how long can this guy swing from warner, faulk, holt and bruces jock. Faulk could have been way better fantasy wise and real life if it weren't for martz, the guy just doesn't run the ball. I don't see this as a good thing for gore or san fran at all, he just not a good coach imo...

Faulk is actually one of the few HOF caliber backs where that kind of comparison can be made pretty easily; by virtue of Faulk's time with the Colts. People seem to forget that Faulk went to 3 of his 7 Pro Bowls as a Colt, and earned 3 of his 6 All Pro nods in Indy.Let's compare his All Pro seasons against one another:

*** Faulk, the Colt ['94, '95, '98]

47 games played

927 attempts

3,679 rushing yards (78 per game)

3.97 yards per rush

28 rushing TDs

194 receptions

1,905 receiving yards (41 per game)

8 receiving TDs

16.5 fantasy points per game (non-PPR)

20.6 fantasy points per game (PPR)

*** Faulk, the Ram ['99, '00, '01]

44 games played

766 attempts

4122 rushing yards (94 per game)

5.4 yards per rush

37 rushing TDs

251 receptions

2643 receiving yards (60 per game)

22 receiving TDs

23.4 fantasy points per game (non-PPR)

29.1 fantasy points per game (PPR)

Faulk was an ELITE NFL back, an All Pro in three of his first five seasons in the league as a Colt. In those three years, he was the 4th, 6th and 3rd best fantasy RB. There was little reason to think he could improve much from those tallies upon his trade to St. Louis. Yet, under Martz' play-calling, he not only improved, but he demolished his personal records in nearly every category.

*** 21% more rushing yards per game (on fewer attempts)

*** 35% improvement in average yards per carry

*** 32% more rushing TDs (again in fewer attempts)

*** 29% more receptions

*** 46% more receiving yards per game

*** 3x the receiving TDs

*** 42% more fantasy points per game (non PPR)

*** 41% more fantasy points per game (PPR)

Say what you will about Martz (and I'm not his biggest fan), but there's absolutely no indication that Faulk could've or would've had better fantasy numbers under another coach.

Based on the impact each had with RB production following their tenures in St. Louis, I would be more likely to credit Vermeil with those increased stats than Martz.

Why? Vermeil didn't call the plays...

No, but it was Vermeil's offensive philosophy that impacted those numbers, the same offense he also inmstalled and ran successfully in KC to transform Holmes numbers in a similar way as Faulk's. See the above post listing KJ's numbers in dtroit pre & post Martz's play calling.

Again, you're mistaken. Vermeil doesn't have an offensive philosophy. His "offensive philosophy" was finding Martz as an OC and then finding Al Saunders to run the same offense in KC. Both Martz and Saunders are Don Coryell disciples, if we're getting specific.

 

[Gr00vus]

Here's some early footage on Alex Smith eluding the pass rush:

Alex Smith had better get himself a nice life/worker's comp insurance package - he's going to get crushed.

 

[az_prof]

One of the best rebuttals I have read on here in a long time...

Really, what has Martz done in the NFL besides manage an explosive offense in St. Louis. The pieces were in place in St. Louis, I really don't think he had much to do with their success.

That is wrong. It was well-documented that Vermeil wanted to go into the '99 season with Tony Banks as the Rams starting QB. Martz convinced him that he was terrible, and that signing Trent Green was the right move (which did work when Green went down, and Warner took over). Does anyone really think the Rams would have come close to winning the Super Bowl that year with Tony Banks as their starting QB?And while Faulk was great in Indy, he became a super-stud in St. Louis thanks to how Martz used him.

So your argument is that because Martz convinced Vermil to go with a guy who got injuried, he knew what he was doing? What if Vermil had went with Banks and Banks got injuried and Warner came in, is the genius now Vermil?

That didn't happen, so it really doesn't matter, does it?

Faulk would have been a "super-stud" in either offense. I "doubt" Martz really had much to do with Faulks talent. Martz has been cashing paychecks because of the talent he managed in St. Louis.

Warner, Faulk, Holt, and Bruce (who admittedly was already a stud; see his '95 season) all had their most productive stretches of their career under Mike Martz.

THERE IS A REASON HE COULDN'T EVEN KEEP A JOB IN DETROIT!!!!

And Matt Millen can keep a job in Detroit! What does that tell you?

 

[GregR_2]

how long can this guy swing from warner, faulk, holt and bruces jock. Faulk could have been way better fantasy wise and real life if it weren't for martz, the guy just doesn't run the ball. I don't see this as a good thing for gore or san fran at all, he just not a good coach imo...

Faulk is actually one of the few HOF caliber backs where that kind of comparison can be made pretty easily; by virtue of Faulk's time with the Colts. People seem to forget that Faulk went to 3 of his 7 Pro Bowls as a Colt, and earned 3 of his 6 All Pro nods in Indy.Let's compare his All Pro seasons against one another:

*** Faulk, the Colt ['94, '95, '98]

47 games played

927 attempts

3,679 rushing yards (78 per game)

3.97 yards per rush

28 rushing TDs

194 receptions

1,905 receiving yards (41 per game)

8 receiving TDs

16.5 fantasy points per game (non-PPR)

20.6 fantasy points per game (PPR)

*** Faulk, the Ram ['99, '00, '01]

44 games played

766 attempts

4122 rushing yards (94 per game)

5.4 yards per rush

37 rushing TDs

251 receptions

2643 receiving yards (60 per game)

22 receiving TDs

23.4 fantasy points per game (non-PPR)

29.1 fantasy points per game (PPR)

Faulk was an ELITE NFL back, an All Pro in three of his first five seasons in the league as a Colt. In those three years, he was the 4th, 6th and 3rd best fantasy RB. There was little reason to think he could improve much from those tallies upon his trade to St. Louis. Yet, under Martz' play-calling, he not only improved, but he demolished his personal records in nearly every category.

*** 21% more rushing yards per game (on fewer attempts)

*** 35% improvement in average yards per carry

*** 32% more rushing TDs (again in fewer attempts)

*** 29% more receptions

*** 46% more receiving yards per game

*** 3x the receiving TDs

*** 42% more fantasy points per game (non PPR)

*** 41% more fantasy points per game (PPR)

Say what you will about Martz (and I'm not his biggest fan), but there's absolutely no indication that Faulk could've or would've had better fantasy numbers under another coach.

Based on the impact each had with RB production following their tenures in St. Louis, I would be more likely to credit Vermeil with those increased stats than Martz.

Why? Vermeil didn't call the plays...

Martz was a coach with the Redskins when Vermeil built most of the Rams offensive line: Pace and Tucker drafted in 1997, and Nutten brought over from the Bills in 98. Vermeil brought in Marshall Faulk and Timmerman at the same time he hired Martz as OC so how much of a role Martz played there who knows.The Chiefs O-line was already built before Vermeil got there. Vermeil brought in Priest though.

Make of that what you will.

 

[Q-Bert]

how long can this guy swing from warner, faulk, holt and bruces jock. Faulk could have been way better fantasy wise and real life if it weren't for martz, the guy just doesn't run the ball. I don't see this as a good thing for gore or san fran at all, he just not a good coach imo...

Faulk is actually one of the few HOF caliber backs where that kind of comparison can be made pretty easily; by virtue of Faulk's time with the Colts. People seem to forget that Faulk went to 3 of his 7 Pro Bowls as a Colt, and earned 3 of his 6 All Pro nods in Indy.Let's compare his All Pro seasons against one another:

*** Faulk, the Colt ['94, '95, '98]

47 games played

927 attempts

3,679 rushing yards (78 per game)

3.97 yards per rush

28 rushing TDs

194 receptions

1,905 receiving yards (41 per game)

8 receiving TDs

16.5 fantasy points per game (non-PPR)

20.6 fantasy points per game (PPR)

*** Faulk, the Ram ['99, '00, '01]

44 games played

766 attempts

4122 rushing yards (94 per game)

5.4 yards per rush

37 rushing TDs

251 receptions

2643 receiving yards (60 per game)

22 receiving TDs

23.4 fantasy points per game (non-PPR)

29.1 fantasy points per game (PPR)

Faulk was an ELITE NFL back, an All Pro in three of his first five seasons in the league as a Colt. In those three years, he was the 4th, 6th and 3rd best fantasy RB. There was little reason to think he could improve much from those tallies upon his trade to St. Louis. Yet, under Martz' play-calling, he not only improved, but he demolished his personal records in nearly every category.

*** 21% more rushing yards per game (on fewer attempts)

*** 35% improvement in average yards per carry

*** 32% more rushing TDs (again in fewer attempts)

*** 29% more receptions

*** 46% more receiving yards per game

*** 3x the receiving TDs

*** 42% more fantasy points per game (non PPR)

*** 41% more fantasy points per game (PPR)

Say what you will about Martz (and I'm not his biggest fan), but there's absolutely no indication that Faulk could've or would've had better fantasy numbers under another coach.

Based on the impact each had with RB production following their tenures in St. Louis, I would be more likely to credit Vermeil with those increased stats than Martz.

Why? Vermeil didn't call the plays...

And, Vermeil was only there for one of the Ram years (the least productive one). 1999 (Vermeil Head Coach)

2429 Total Yards

151.8 Total Yards per game

12 TDs

2000 (Martz Head Coach)

2189 Total yards

156.3 Total Yards per game

26 TDs

2001 (Martz Head Coach)

2147 Total Yards

153.3 Total Yards per game

21 TDs

 

[mozzy84]

how long can this guy swing from warner, faulk, holt and bruces jock. Faulk could have been way better fantasy wise and real life if it weren't for martz, the guy just doesn't run the ball. I don't see this as a good thing for gore or san fran at all, he just not a good coach imo...

Faulk is actually one of the few HOF caliber backs where that kind of comparison can be made pretty easily; by virtue of Faulk's time with the Colts. People seem to forget that Faulk went to 3 of his 7 Pro Bowls as a Colt, and earned 3 of his 6 All Pro nods in Indy.Let's compare his All Pro seasons against one another:

*** Faulk, the Colt ['94, '95, '98]

47 games played

927 attempts

3,679 rushing yards (78 per game)

3.97 yards per rush

28 rushing TDs

194 receptions

1,905 receiving yards (41 per game)

8 receiving TDs

16.5 fantasy points per game (non-PPR)

20.6 fantasy points per game (PPR)

*** Faulk, the Ram ['99, '00, '01]

44 games played

766 attempts

4122 rushing yards (94 per game)

5.4 yards per rush

37 rushing TDs

251 receptions

2643 receiving yards (60 per game)

22 receiving TDs

23.4 fantasy points per game (non-PPR)

29.1 fantasy points per game (PPR)

Faulk was an ELITE NFL back, an All Pro in three of his first five seasons in the league as a Colt. In those three years, he was the 4th, 6th and 3rd best fantasy RB. There was little reason to think he could improve much from those tallies upon his trade to St. Louis. Yet, under Martz' play-calling, he not only improved, but he demolished his personal records in nearly every category.

*** 21% more rushing yards per game (on fewer attempts)

*** 35% improvement in average yards per carry

*** 32% more rushing TDs (again in fewer attempts)

*** 29% more receptions

*** 46% more receiving yards per game

*** 3x the receiving TDs

*** 42% more fantasy points per game (non PPR)

*** 41% more fantasy points per game (PPR)

Say what you will about Martz (and I'm not his biggest fan), but there's absolutely no indication that Faulk could've or would've had better fantasy numbers under another coach.

those numbers are great, I just remember watching games screaming at the tv when faulk wouldn't get his 20 carries and they would choose to pass inside the 5 all the time with that online they had. Faulk could have gotten 25+ td on the ground those couple years, warner ended up doing good though I will give martz that.

 

[KCC]

how long can this guy swing from warner, faulk, holt and bruces jock. Faulk could have been way better fantasy wise and real life if it weren't for martz, the guy just doesn't run the ball. I don't see this as a good thing for gore or san fran at all, he just not a good coach imo...

Faulk is actually one of the few HOF caliber backs where that kind of comparison can be made pretty easily; by virtue of Faulk's time with the Colts. People seem to forget that Faulk went to 3 of his 7 Pro Bowls as a Colt, and earned 3 of his 6 All Pro nods in Indy.Let's compare his All Pro seasons against one another:

*** Faulk, the Colt ['94, '95, '98]

47 games played

927 attempts

3,679 rushing yards (78 per game)

3.97 yards per rush

28 rushing TDs

194 receptions

1,905 receiving yards (41 per game)

8 receiving TDs

16.5 fantasy points per game (non-PPR)

20.6 fantasy points per game (PPR)

*** Faulk, the Ram ['99, '00, '01]

44 games played

766 attempts

4122 rushing yards (94 per game)

5.4 yards per rush

37 rushing TDs

251 receptions

2643 receiving yards (60 per game)

22 receiving TDs

23.4 fantasy points per game (non-PPR)

29.1 fantasy points per game (PPR)

Faulk was an ELITE NFL back, an All Pro in three of his first five seasons in the league as a Colt. In those three years, he was the 4th, 6th and 3rd best fantasy RB. There was little reason to think he could improve much from those tallies upon his trade to St. Louis. Yet, under Martz' play-calling, he not only improved, but he demolished his personal records in nearly every category.

*** 21% more rushing yards per game (on fewer attempts)

*** 35% improvement in average yards per carry

*** 32% more rushing TDs (again in fewer attempts)

*** 29% more receptions

*** 46% more receiving yards per game

*** 3x the receiving TDs

*** 42% more fantasy points per game (non PPR)

*** 41% more fantasy points per game (PPR)

Say what you will about Martz (and I'm not his biggest fan), but there's absolutely no indication that Faulk could've or would've had better fantasy numbers under another coach.

Based on the impact each had with RB production following their tenures in St. Louis, I would be more likely to credit Vermeil with those increased stats than Martz.

Why? Vermeil didn't call the plays...

No, but it was Vermeil's offensive philosophy that impacted those numbers, the same offense he also inmstalled and ran successfully in KC to transform Holmes numbers in a similar way as Faulk's. See the above post listing KJ's numbers in dtroit pre & post Martz's play calling.

Again, you're mistaken. Vermeil doesn't have an offensive philosophy. His "offensive philosophy" was finding Martz as an OC and then finding Al Saunders to run the same offense in KC. Both Martz and Saunders are Don Coryell disciples, if we're getting specific.

Fair enough, but it doesn't change the fact that similar RB success followed Vermeil to KC (regardless of why) and did not translate into the similar RB productivity for Martz in Detroit. I'm looking at it from purely a prediction stand point based on past outcomes.

 

[stevegamer]

Vermiel has an offensive philosphy: get an OL & a good RB. He didn't need the OL in KC, as it was there. He built it in StL, and if you take alook a bit further back, you'll see it in his Eagles teams as well.

 

[Jason Wood]

how long can this guy swing from warner, faulk, holt and bruces jock. Faulk could have been way better fantasy wise and real life if it weren't for martz, the guy just doesn't run the ball. I don't see this as a good thing for gore or san fran at all, he just not a good coach imo...

Faulk is actually one of the few HOF caliber backs where that kind of comparison can be made pretty easily; by virtue of Faulk's time with the Colts. People seem to forget that Faulk went to 3 of his 7 Pro Bowls as a Colt, and earned 3 of his 6 All Pro nods in Indy.Let's compare his All Pro seasons against one another:

*** Faulk, the Colt ['94, '95, '98]

47 games played

927 attempts

3,679 rushing yards (78 per game)

3.97 yards per rush

28 rushing TDs

194 receptions

1,905 receiving yards (41 per game)

8 receiving TDs

16.5 fantasy points per game (non-PPR)

20.6 fantasy points per game (PPR)

*** Faulk, the Ram ['99, '00, '01]

44 games played

766 attempts

4122 rushing yards (94 per game)

5.4 yards per rush

37 rushing TDs

251 receptions

2643 receiving yards (60 per game)

22 receiving TDs

23.4 fantasy points per game (non-PPR)

29.1 fantasy points per game (PPR)

Faulk was an ELITE NFL back, an All Pro in three of his first five seasons in the league as a Colt. In those three years, he was the 4th, 6th and 3rd best fantasy RB. There was little reason to think he could improve much from those tallies upon his trade to St. Louis. Yet, under Martz' play-calling, he not only improved, but he demolished his personal records in nearly every category.

*** 21% more rushing yards per game (on fewer attempts)

*** 35% improvement in average yards per carry

*** 32% more rushing TDs (again in fewer attempts)

*** 29% more receptions

*** 46% more receiving yards per game

*** 3x the receiving TDs

*** 42% more fantasy points per game (non PPR)

*** 41% more fantasy points per game (PPR)

Say what you will about Martz (and I'm not his biggest fan), but there's absolutely no indication that Faulk could've or would've had better fantasy numbers under another coach.

Based on the impact each had with RB production following their tenures in St. Louis, I would be more likely to credit Vermeil with those increased stats than Martz.

Why? Vermeil didn't call the plays...

No, but it was Vermeil's offensive philosophy that impacted those numbers, the same offense he also inmstalled and ran successfully in KC to transform Holmes numbers in a similar way as Faulk's. See the above post listing KJ's numbers in dtroit pre & post Martz's play calling.

Again, you're mistaken. Vermeil doesn't have an offensive philosophy. His "offensive philosophy" was finding Martz as an OC and then finding Al Saunders to run the same offense in KC. Both Martz and Saunders are Don Coryell disciples, if we're getting specific.

Fair enough, but it doesn't change the fact that similar RB success followed Vermeil to KC (regardless of why) and did not translate into the similar RB productivity for Martz in Detroit. I'm looking at it from purely a prediction stand point based on past outcomes.

Look no further than their respective offensive lines...the Chiefs had three perennial All Pros on the line, the Lions had...well they had five warm bodies.

 

[Gr00vus]

Look no further than their respective offensive lines...the Chiefs had three perennial All Pros on the line, the Lions had...well they had five warm bodies.

Now apply that logic to the 49ers.....

 

[Jason Wood]

Look no further than their respective offensive lines...the Chiefs had three perennial All Pros on the line, the Lions had...well they had five warm bodies.

Now apply that logic to the 49ers.....

...I did, a few posts ago:

Mike Martz has shown he can get productive passing games out of pedestrian QBs (or at least QBs that were perceived as pedestrian prior to his tutelage) but absent an very good pass-blocking offensive line, he is a detriment to his team's success IMHO. The question 49ers fans should be asking themselves = how close is the 49ers O-line from being elite?