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Marvel Cinematic Universe - Loved Thunderbolts*! - Also Marvel Trivia May 5th at 9 EST on FootballGuys (3 Viewers)

So this MCU Phase is all about Multi-Verse (Loki, Spidey, Strange); Gods/Antiquity (Eternals, Moon Knight, Thor) with Kang as the new big bad it seems.  

How is this all going to play together and how do Blade and Black Knight fit?
Are we sure Kang is the big bad?  With sequels for BP, GotG, CM and Ant-Man as well as Fantastic Four and Blade all part of Phase 4 do we really know yet?  Or is Kang more like Loki level and the Thanos level is still tbd?

And that's not including all the D+ shows still coming that could open up more big bads.

 
Are we sure Kang is the big bad?  With sequels for BP, GotG, CM and Ant-Man as well as Fantastic Four and Blade all part of Phase 4 do we really know yet?  Or is Kang more like Loki level and the Thanos level is still tbd?

And that's not including all the D+ shows still coming that could open up more big bads.
Just assumed based on the timeline change and the multiple Kang wars he described. 

 
Also finally got around to NWH.  Especially liked Dafoe tossing out the "something of a scientist" line.

Are we spoiler-safe at this point? I have a question about the end-state that I haven't seen discussed in here.
Agree, after a week and definitely after a month I think you are good.  I wish they had the spoiler tag.  I will usually type something like SPOILER INCOMING and dropping a few lines down to give people a chance.

 
Caught up on Moon Knight over the weekend (watched the first ep right away but then got busy)

I like the general premise. Its well acted. I like Isaac a lot. The action is generally fine.

But it isn't QUITE doing it for me. Found myself checking my phone a lot, which is generally the sign that I'm not that into it.

Maybe its my own fault for binging 3 eps in a row. I'm certainly in for the rest of the run but its not blowing my socks off.
Yes,  I think Isaac is great.  The first episode was a little slow due to world building, the next 2 eps I thought were really good, then last week fell off for me. The problem is going to be there are only 2 episodes left, and my understanding is that this is a limited series, so we have had a gradual (to slow) pace that is going to have to jump to hyper drive over the last 2 episodes. I obviously think they'll carry MK over into the movies, but I think the pacing is off for the series.

 
OK, **NWH Spoilers follow***

The spell that Dr. Strange does at the end is intended to make everyone in the world forget that Peter Parker is Spider-Man, right? But the way the last few scenes play, it's more like he just wiped ALL knowledge of Peter Parker's existence. 

Clearly, people still know that Spider-Man exists. I guess it's less a question than just an observation that Strange didn't (or couldn't) simply break the "Parker = Spidey" connection; he could only make it as if Peter Parker had never existed.  Which now that I think about it, I think he even said as much before starting the spell the first time around.  

 
OK, **NWH Spoilers follow***

The spell that Dr. Strange does at the end is intended to make everyone in the world forget that Peter Parker is Spider-Man, right? But the way the last few scenes play, it's more like he just wiped ALL knowledge of Peter Parker's existence. 

Clearly, people still know that Spider-Man exists. I guess it's less a question than just an observation that Strange didn't (or couldn't) simply break the "Parker = Spidey" connection; he could only make it as if Peter Parker had never existed.  Which now that I think about it, I think he even said as much before starting the spell the first time around.  
Basically this

 
OK, **NWH Spoilers follow***

The spell that Dr. Strange does at the end is intended to make everyone in the world forget that Peter Parker is Spider-Man, right? But the way the last few scenes play, it's more like he just wiped ALL knowledge of Peter Parker's existence. 

Clearly, people still know that Spider-Man exists. I guess it's less a question than just an observation that Strange didn't (or couldn't) simply break the "Parker = Spidey" connection; he could only make it as if Peter Parker had never existed.  Which now that I think about it, I think he even said as much before starting the spell the first time around.  
From my recollection the last spell was that no one in the world would know who Peter Parker was - Strange even said it would apply to him. 

 
Watched Spiderman again...yeah I'm that guy.

It's better the second time when you get over the ridiculousness of bringing back the other spider worlds.

Andrew Garfield knocked every single scene out of the park. The best scene of the entire movie is him saving MJ. Beyond a stupid superhero movie he nailed every great actor moment in that you could. Went beyond fan service to a 50 second honoring of the emotion these movies give you as a fan since when you were a kid. 

I put that one scene right up there with everything RDJ did to bring Iron Man to life. Just well done.

 
Funny, I agree with the first sentence but had the polar opposite reaction. At this point I’m only going to finish the season because I’m a completionist. 
I agree with this. I will probably wait until all the remaining episodes are available. A big part of the problem for me is that I do not care about any of these people. I find myself actively rooting for Ethan Hawk. 

 
After how Wandavision slow played and ended up being so good (IMO) with how it tied things together, I’m definitely inclined to give these Marvel shows more patience than I would most shows. 
The difference is we knew Wanda and her backstory which causes us to care. This show has none of that. All I know about this guy is he worked in the souvenir shop at the museum and he has multiple personality. If he got killed off in episode five it wouldn't matter to anyone. That is if someone else could wear the suit. 

 
The difference is we knew Wanda and her backstory which causes us to care. This show has none of that. All I know about this guy is he worked in the souvenir shop at the museum and he has multiple personality. If he got killed off in episode five it wouldn't matter to anyone. That is if someone else could wear the suit. 
I agree with this. They may turn it around a bit, but why do we have 6 episode seasons for brand new people. We had an entire movie or two for almost all of the key avengers before they were the avengers and most of those characters were kind of already known. I didn’t know anything about Moon Knight or Konshu and I was aware of some of the Egyptian gods and history. Give it 8 episodes even if episode 1 is just meeting then characters a bit more or maybe showing Mark and Layla, which might have made Stephen’s intro more interesting. It’s just been OK but I wouldn’t miss it.

 
I agree with this. They may turn it around a bit, but why do we have 6 episode seasons for brand new people. We had an entire movie or two for almost all of the key avengers before they were the avengers and most of those characters were kind of already known. I didn’t know anything about Moon Knight or Konshu and I was aware of some of the Egyptian gods and history. Give it 8 episodes even if episode 1 is just meeting then characters a bit more or maybe showing Mark and Layla, which might have made Stephen’s intro more interesting. It’s just been OK but I wouldn’t miss it.


Six 40-60min episodes is greater than or equal to the time of two 2.5 hour movies.

 
Six 40-60min episodes is greater than or equal to the time of two 2.5 hour movies.
I had a feeling that would come around but Captain America is well known and even Iron Man. How many “super” characters were in those movies? Not Money Penny types like assistants or army folks, but Steve Rogers type or Red Skull villains.

In Moon Knight, we see the gods including one who’s an ally to Konshu, Konshu, Moon Knight and Ethan Hawke. As I mentioned, we know nothing of these gods and their powers and alliances. We also know nothing about how gods possess humans thus not knowing how Ethan Hawke was controlled and then not controlled. We didn’t need background on Steve’s super soldier serum or Tony’s suit building skills but damn we got little to nothing on Moon Knight.

I’ve enjoyed Moon Knight more than most but I can see the complaints. It would have been one thing if we were just looking into Moon Knight’s origin with Mark and Layla, but we got thrown into a story arc with Ethan Hawke and the gods with no details and again Moon Knight is not a character people know at all. There was no Tony Stark with the middle eastern backstory  or skinny Steve Rogers backstory.

 
I had a feeling that would come around but Captain America is well known and even Iron Man. How many “super” characters were in those movies? Not Money Penny types like assistants or army folks, but Steve Rogers type or Red Skull villains.

In Moon Knight, we see the gods including one who’s an ally to Konshu, Konshu, Moon Knight and Ethan Hawke. As I mentioned, we know nothing of these gods and their powers and alliances. We also know nothing about how gods possess humans thus not knowing how Ethan Hawke was controlled and then not controlled. We didn’t need background on Steve’s super soldier serum or Tony’s suit building skills but damn we got little to nothing on Moon Knight.

I’ve enjoyed Moon Knight more than most but I can see the complaints. It would have been one thing if we were just looking into Moon Knight’s origin with Mark and Layla, but we got thrown into a story arc with Ethan Hawke and the gods with no details and again Moon Knight is not a character people know at all. There was no Tony Stark with the middle eastern backstory  or skinny Steve Rogers backstory.


You're not wrong.

 
Man I am just not into moon Knight at all. And every time that stupid looking pelican god starts talking I just bust out laughing. It’s bad imo. 

 
I had a feeling that would come around but Captain America is well known and even Iron Man. How many “super” characters were in those movies? Not Money Penny types like assistants or army folks, but Steve Rogers type or Red Skull villains.

In Moon Knight, we see the gods including one who’s an ally to Konshu, Konshu, Moon Knight and Ethan Hawke. As I mentioned, we know nothing of these gods and their powers and alliances. We also know nothing about how gods possess humans thus not knowing how Ethan Hawke was controlled and then not controlled. We didn’t need background on Steve’s super soldier serum or Tony’s suit building skills but damn we got little to nothing on Moon Knight.

I’ve enjoyed Moon Knight more than most but I can see the complaints. It would have been one thing if we were just looking into Moon Knight’s origin with Mark and Layla, but we got thrown into a story arc with Ethan Hawke and the gods with no details and again Moon Knight is not a character people know at all. There was no Tony Stark with the middle eastern backstory  or skinny Steve Rogers backstory.
That’s very fair, but my guess is that they chose to introduce the character(s) the way they did intentionally because they wanted the viewer to identify with Moon Knight, specifically the Stephen identity in this version, by having the viewer feel like they were suddenly being thrown into this whole world of all this crazy stuff going on and trying to figure out what the heck is going on as it plays out while only being given access to bits and pieces of the past.

I think if folks approach it from that perspective and judge the show for what it is rather than for what they expected it to be, they’ll enjoy it more.

And I still think that the complaints about Moon Knight largely mimic the complaints about WandaVision and even What If? People complained early on because the plot was slow to develop, they didn’t know what was going on and things didn’t seem to make sense or be cohesive, there was lots of missing information, etc. It’s only the ability to look back now knowing the full story that it doesn’t seem as slow and frustratingly incomplete.

 
That’s very fair, but my guess is that they chose to introduce the character(s) the way they did intentionally because they wanted the viewer to identify with Moon Knight, specifically the Stephen identity in this version, by having the viewer feel like they were suddenly being thrown into this whole world of all this crazy stuff going on and trying to figure out what the heck is going on as it plays out while only being given access to bits and pieces of the past.

I think if folks approach it from that perspective and judge the show for what it is rather than for what they expected it to be, they’ll enjoy it more.

And I still think that the complaints about Moon Knight largely mimic the complaints about WandaVision and even What If? People complained early on because the plot was slow to develop, they didn’t know what was going on and things didn’t seem to make sense or be cohesive, there was lots of missing information, etc. It’s only the ability to look back now knowing the full story that it doesn’t seem as slow and frustratingly incomplete.
I can definitely understand the wanting the user to be disoriented like Stephen was, but I do think they could have given some Mark history and then disoriented us with Stephen.

I personally never minded the slower Wanda Vision start. It was more odd because we had no idea what the show was about at first. I think people legitimately thought it was some goofy version of Wanda/Vision’s life at home, maybe a version of Leave it to Beaver that was completely outside the MCU.

 
Man I am just not into moon Knight at all. And every time that stupid looking pelican god starts talking I just bust out laughing. It’s bad imo. 
I did like it when Konshu was talking through Mark/Stephen.  It cracked me up the way he would move his body and speak, like it was being forced out of him.

 
The complaints y'all have are the things I like about the show.  I don't mind waiting for the story-tellers to tell the whole story.

Egyptian gods are weird.  The Hindu ones are even odder.

 
It's starting to come together i guess, but we've still never seen what moon knight the superhero looks like.  We know he is supposedly bad ### but we haven't gotten to see it so this is just a bunch of weird stuff followed by maybe an episode where you finally see a superhero.  This is an origin story, i guess, but usually you meet the hero before act 3. 

It's become the Disney+/ marvel phase 4 formula to frustrate your audience for weeks before giving them a payoff that hopefully makes up for it. This week feels like a step in that direction - we dealt with a lot of the mystery but left enough stuff to work out for a final episode.   And if they stick the landing i might be interested in seeing more about this character somewhere down the line. So I'm sticking with it but still a little frustrated.  

 
It's starting to come together i guess, but we've still never seen what moon knight the superhero looks like.  We know he is supposedly bad ### but we haven't gotten to see it so this is just a bunch of weird stuff followed by maybe an episode where you finally see a superhero.  This is an origin story, i guess, but usually you meet the hero before act 3. 

It's become the Disney+/ marvel phase 4 formula to frustrate your audience for weeks before giving them a payoff that hopefully makes up for it. This week feels like a step in that direction - we dealt with a lot of the mystery but left enough stuff to work out for a final episode.   And if they stick the landing i might be interested in seeing more about this character somewhere down the line. So I'm sticking with it but still a little frustrated.  
What do you mean? We've seen Moon Knight in action several times.

 
What do you mean? We've seen Moon Knight in action several times.
Briefly, and always in the third person for lack of a better term.  I know he wears a suit.  I don't really know what he's capable of. He's... bulletproof?  Really good at fighting?   It's kind of hard to tell if you're not a fan of the comics.  

 
Briefly, and always in the third person for lack of a better term.  I know he wears a suit.  I don't really know what he's capable of. He's... bulletproof?  Really good at fighting?   It's kind of hard to tell if you're not a fan of the comics.  
Or you were asleep suring the fight scenes.  What he could do has been made very plain.

 
Man I am just not into moon Knight at all. And every time that stupid looking pelican god starts talking I just bust out laughing. It’s bad imo. 


Moon knight was a boring comic character from what I recall.  Not surprised.    Not planning on watching this

 
It was, okay. Interesting to a point but decidedly less enjoyable to me than the other shows have been. Totally agree with the point made earlier that most of us don’t know moon knight and are less attached to the character. If they had started here instead of IM or CA, the MCU wouldn’t be as big now imo. 

OTOH, my 13yo hadn’t enjoyed most MCU. He was in the room while I was watching, he ended up really enjoying it 🤷

 
I have a question about Moon Knight and I can’t put spoiler tags. So please only read if you watched 2-3 episodes ago

Im all caught up on the show and unlike others, I really enjoyed this episode. It is much deeper than anything else Marvel has put out and shows how a child can be scarred. 
 

Anyway, I get that Mark has a split personality from his mom being abusive, alcoholic and just plain mean in blaming him for what I’m sure was an accident. What I don’t get, is what happens when Mark is in the middle of one thing and then flash, Stephen is in a totally new place. I’m thinking specifically about the fight on the rooftop. One second they are fighting on rooftop and the next he is in a car and sees the guys he is fighting in the streets. 

 
Kind of random but just wanted to note that I was at the Field Museum in Chicago with my kids last week and we were walking through the Egypt section when my son pulled me aside to check out a diorama scene (he's also watching the show but is more into it than I am).  Konshu was depicted as was Ammit (Ethan Hawke's god, who is a lion/alligator guy) and they were doing the judgment thing with the scales. As I understand it (probably wrong), after someone dies and they are in an afterlife phase, Ammit puts the person's heart on the scale with a feather on the other side to see if they pass into their version of heaven. If the person was good in life, their heart was light and balanced with the feather and away you go into the afterlife. If your heart was heavy, Ammit would eat you. Its the thing being represented when Ethan Hawke does the balance thing with his cane and his tattoo of the scales moves to weigh the person's goodness or whatever.  After my son pointed it out, I was seeing Konshu everywhere in that exhibit.

 
I have a question about Moon Knight and I can’t put spoiler tags. So please only read if you watched 2-3 episodes ago

Im all caught up on the show and unlike others, I really enjoyed this episode. It is much deeper than anything else Marvel has put out and shows how a child can be scarred. 
 

Anyway, I get that Mark has a split personality from his mom being abusive, alcoholic and just plain mean in blaming him for what I’m sure was an accident. What I don’t get, is what happens when Mark is in the middle of one thing and then flash, Stephen is in a totally new place. I’m thinking specifically about the fight on the rooftop. One second they are fighting on rooftop and the next he is in a car and sees the guys he is fighting in the streets. 


He has at least one other personality that takes over during those gaps.
 
I enjoy moon night, but I never read the comics and I'm just watching it as a one-off series that is pretty much an Indiana Jones adventure with a main character who has dissociative identity disorder and a super-suit.

From what I've read, that's what they were shooting for.

 
I have a question about Moon Knight and I can’t put spoiler tags. So please only read if you watched 2-3 episodes ago

Im all caught up on the show and unlike others, I really enjoyed this episode. It is much deeper than anything else Marvel has put out and shows how a child can be scarred. 
 

Anyway, I get that Mark has a split personality from his mom being abusive, alcoholic and just plain mean in blaming him for what I’m sure was an accident. What I don’t get, is what happens when Mark is in the middle of one thing and then flash, Stephen is in a totally new place. I’m thinking specifically about the fight on the rooftop. One second they are fighting on rooftop and the next he is in a car and sees the guys he is fighting in the streets. 
I think you are misremembering. We always see Steven from his perspective. Think of it like Steven on roof ---> Mark fighting on roof and then goes to new place----> Steven in new place. And the part where he is Mark he doesn't know happened at all so from his perspective he is on the roof and then suddenly finds himself in a new place.

 
Trying to avoid leaks about your MoM, can’t even check my usual news feed. 
but I do wonder if the timing of Moon knight, with the final episode right before the movie opens is just coincidental. Haven’t heard anything about MK being in MoM. 

 
Caught up on Moon Knight yesterday and I’m very meh about it. I like it better than Falcon and TWS but way below the rest. I sort of get it all but it just doesn’t feel like we’ve done anything except figure why Mark (the primary person) is like he is. It doesn’t feel like we've seen a story. Feels like one movie stretched into 5 episodes.

 
[With Moon Knight, it] doesn’t feel like we've seen a story. Feels like one movie stretched into 5 episodes.
I've been liking Moon Knight's aimlessness a bit because I felt like I came in needing the character's backstory. I haven't minded necessarily that they've needed so much screen time to get that backstory out.

However, at this point ... they're either running out of runway to resolve the Harrow story well, or else they're doing a naked set-up for a second season (IOW, not even pretending to resolve current loose ends).

Some of the other Marvel Phase IV series have played around with varying episode runtimes. I wonder if Moon Knight -- since it features a brand-new character to 95% of the audience -- wouldn't have benefited from a structure more like this:

Episode 1 (~90 minutes) - 2/3 of origin story/character intro
Episode 2 (~90 minutes) - last 1/3 of origin story/character intro, set up for actual story arc
Episides 3-8 (~60 minutes) -- fulfillment of the actual story arc, including a finish spreading out over two episodes so that anticipation of the final episode is at a fever pitch.

 
I've been liking Moon Knight's aimlessness a bit because I felt like I came in needing the character's backstory. I haven't minded necessarily that they've needed so much screen time to get that backstory out.

However, at this point ... they're either running out of runway to resolve the Harrow story well, or else they're doing a naked set-up for a second season (IOW, not even pretending to resolve current loose ends).

Some of the other Marvel Phase IV series have played around with varying episode runtimes. I wonder if Moon Knight -- since it features a brand-new character to 95% of the audience -- wouldn't have benefited from a structure more like this:

Episode 1 (~90 minutes) - 2/3 of origin story/character intro
Episode 2 (~90 minutes) - last 1/3 of origin story/character intro, set up for actual story arc
Episides 3-8 (~60 minutes) -- fulfillment of the actual story arc, including a finish spreading out over two episodes so that anticipation of the final episode is at a fever pitch.
Kind of stupid how they did his back story. We knew nothing about Marc for 4 episodes. They barely even hinted at a backstory. Then episode 5 was pretty much all back story. Now there's one episode left. I dont like how they did that.

 
I'm digging Moon Knight. Great acting and a great story.  Its not The Wire but who expects that from a Marvel Superhero show? For me, not as good as Wanda but better than all the other Marvel shows on Disney+ this past year or so.

 
With one episode left, my rank.  just the D+ shows:

WandaVision

Loki

Hawkeye

The Falcon and The Winter Soldier

What If? 

Moon Knight - totally respect the acting. The story just hasn’t been as fun to watch. 

With Netflix, DD all seasons are still just above WV. Put Defenders and JJ season 1 below F&WS. AoS depends on the season. The rest are below MK. 

 
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With one episode left, my rank.  just the D+ shows:

WandaVision

Loki

Hawkeye

The Falcon and The Winter Soldier

What If? 

Moon Knight - totally respect the acting. The story just hasn’t been as fun to watch. 

With Netflix, DD all seasons are still just above WV. Put Defenders and JJ season 1 below F&WS. AoS depends on the season. The rest are below MK. 
D+? 

 

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