McGahee - Torn MCL and Broken Leg (1 Viewer)

[god_shamgod]

I talked to Ball, Hillman, Moreno today. Said 'what's up' to Jeremiah Johnson too

This is going to be a RBBC led by Hillman. Ball will play as short yardage back and on some passing downs. Moreno is good in pass protection but he gets the Hillman role now.

Talked to John Fox too. He said, they'll always use some sort of committee (as they have with McGahee healthy).

Hey Cecil - given everything you've said, wouldn't it make more sense to simply slot Moreno into McGahee's role, and allow Ball and Hillman to stay in the roles they're currently excelling in? As I pointed out earlier, with McGahee in the game, Hillman took his first COP carry for 21 yards. Following the injury to McGahee, Hillman had 22 yards on his next 11 carries. So why not let Moreno bang it inside and keep the defense honest/wear them down while keeping Hillman in that COP role?

You've clearly got a good pulse on this team - would appreciate your thoughts on that (though I think we all know you've been banging the Hillman drum for a LONG time).

wrote this about my interview with Doug Martin and going from Broncos to Broncos here: http://www.denverssp...m=49&post_id=35 mock draft here: http://www.denverssp...m=49&post_id=79After the draft wrote this about Hillman: http://www.denverssp...m=49&post_id=97

WHY would Moreno go from INACTIVE to LEAD RB?!? They've chosen to roll with Hillman, Ball, McGahee yet all of a sudden they're going to plug Moreno into the top spot?!?

YES, Foxy is loyal to veterans (you're a Panthers fan) but this job is Hillman's to lose. Talking to Fox he's been very impressed with Hillman's work in pass pro, and Monday he told me that he felt Hillman as 'caught up' after missing time back in camp.

Break down his carries from SDSU......you'll see 2 yards, 1 yard, 3 yards, 2 yards, 30 yards, 4 yards, 2 yards, 12 yards, etc, etc.

I want to see him run with more patience. Watch McGahee slightly hesitate before hitting a hole, then watch Hillman run hurriedly to the hole....big difference in the results. Hillman is the youngest player in the league and I expect him to learn and grow with each week. So far he's done a good job of impressing the people that matter most (coaching staff).

The same reason you don't plug your punter in to kick field goals when your place kicker gets injured. Moreno is a more complete back than any of the others. I have no inside knowledge whatsoever and hate holiday inns but i'd rather have a complete RB as my teams starting RB over the other specialists. JMO

 

[Cecil Lammey]

The same reason you don't plug your punter in to kick field goals when your place kicker gets injured. Moreno is a more complete back than any of the others. I have no inside knowledge whatsoever and hate holiday inns but i'd rather have a complete RB as my teams starting RB over the other specialists. JMO

Couldn't disagree with this more. Moreno is a nice receiving back, but clearly doesn't have what it takes to be a 'complete' back. we've seen enough from Moreno, and it's simply not good enough for a featured role.

 

[Hear-the-Footsteps]

Totally confused. McGahee is out. Like several weeks out. So I wanted to see how much the going rate on Hillman would be - so I checked the FBG waiver report to see what percentage of waiver money was recommended as a bid. The waiver report reads as though McGahee isn't even hurt.

"Ronnie Hillman, Broncos: Willis McGahee is still the best all-around back in Denver and he is running the ball well enough that he's at no risk of losing starter touches."

Seeing as though the waiver report is reporting this, it makes sense that Hillman is listed as the 12th RB with only a suggestion of 5-7% bid. So that is obviously not a good guideline to use. My question is: what are others bidding? What percent of your total beginning waiver money are you putting on trying to obtain him?

This applies to both McGahee owners (who may really need him as they had McGahee slotted in as an every week starter) and non-McGahee owners (who may just seen an opportunity to gain a starting RB). How much?

Check the updated report later today.

Just did. Exact same description. Word for word.

 

[Sabertooth]

Totally confused. McGahee is out. Like several weeks out. So I wanted to see how much the going rate on Hillman would be - so I checked the FBG waiver report to see what percentage of waiver money was recommended as a bid. The waiver report reads as though McGahee isn't even hurt.

"Ronnie Hillman, Broncos: Willis McGahee is still the best all-around back in Denver and he is running the ball well enough that he's at no risk of losing starter touches."

Seeing as though the waiver report is reporting this, it makes sense that Hillman is listed as the 12th RB with only a suggestion of 5-7% bid. So that is obviously not a good guideline to use. My question is: what are others bidding? What percent of your total beginning waiver money are you putting on trying to obtain him?

This applies to both McGahee owners (who may really need him as they had McGahee slotted in as an every week starter) and non-McGahee owners (who may just seen an opportunity to gain a starting RB). How much?

Check the updated report later today.

Just did. Exact same description. Word for word.

Check the Audible WW special thread.

 

[JFS171]

Guess we'll see how it plays out. It seems to me that Hillman doesn't have the ability to be what Cosell calls a sustainer, IE get the tough yards inside, keep drives alive, four yards a pop, etc. A "foundation" back is another term he's used.

I think Moreno is interesting here. Saw plenty of comments that the medical staff though Moreno would benefit from added recovery time, and other rumors that he's killing it in practice.

If its not Moreno, watch out for Ball IMO.

 

[Lord Lucan]

McGahee on season-ending IR as per Jay Glazer on Twitter

http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/nfl/248618/football-headlines?r=1

 

[Bad_Mo]

Guess we'll see how it plays out. It seems to me that Hillman doesn't have the ability to be what Cosell calls a sustainer, IE get the tough yards inside, keep drives alive, four yards a pop, etc. A "foundation" back is another term he's used.

I think Moreno is interesting here. Saw plenty of comments that the medical staff though Moreno would benefit from added recovery time, and other rumors that he's killing it in practice.

If its not Moreno, watch out for Ball IMO.

Seems odd to be a healthy scratch if this were the case.

 

[Sarnoff]

McGahee on season-ending IR as per Jay Glazer on Twitterhttp://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/nfl/248618/football-headlines?r=1

That link doesn't say "season ending", it says he's on the new IR where he can come back in 6 weeks ("designated to return"). "Targeting the AFC Championship Game" if they make it that far.

 

[Bayhawks]

McGahee on season-ending IR as per Jay Glazer on Twitter

http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/nfl/248618/football-headlines?r=1

That link doesn't say "season ending", it says he's on the new IR where he can come back in 6 weeks ("designated to return"). "Targeting the AFC Championship Game" if they make it that far.

According to Jay Glazer, it's season ending.

 

[Sarnoff]

McGahee on season-ending IR as per Jay Glazer on Twitter

http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/nfl/248618/football-headlines?r=1

That link doesn't say "season ending", it says he's on the new IR where he can come back in 6 weeks ("designated to return"). "Targeting the AFC Championship Game" if they make it that far.

According to Jay Glazer, it's season ending.

Everywhere else says he's out for the "regular season" but is eligible to practice after 6 weeks and play after 8, which would be Championship game.

 

[Ray_T]

Ok, everyone is universally chanting Hillman so that must mean, go get Moreno.

It's possible you could be right.Honestly, I expect neither would be an outstanding pickup at this point. But if you have a hole in your roster, you gotta go with someone. Hillman and Moreno would appear to have the highest chance of doing well.

 

[JFS171]

Guess we'll see how it plays out. It seems to me that Hillman doesn't have the ability to be what Cosell calls a sustainer, IE get the tough yards inside, keep drives alive, four yards a pop, etc. A "foundation" back is another term he's used.

I think Moreno is interesting here. Saw plenty of comments that the medical staff though Moreno would benefit from added recovery time, and other rumors that he's killing it in practice.

If its not Moreno, watch out for Ball IMO.

Seems odd to be a healthy scratch if this were the case.

Not necessarily - look at Pittsburgh. Dwyer was inactive with Rainey and Batch playing on special teams, Mendenhall handling early down work, and Redman the COP/third down. Moreno doesn't play ST, Ball does. Willis was clearly top dog, and Hillman was COP/third down. Moreno used the time to get his knee back to health, which quotes from Fox suggest the medical staff felt was very beneficial for Knowshon. Even if he was killing it in practice, he's got no role with the other three healthy.

Now, I could easily see him step into the Willis role.

 

[Lavachebeadsman]

Guess we'll see how it plays out. It seems to me that Hillman doesn't have the ability to be what Cosell calls a sustainer, IE get the tough yards inside, keep drives alive, four yards a pop, etc. A "foundation" back is another term he's used.

I think Moreno is interesting here. Saw plenty of comments that the medical staff though Moreno would benefit from added recovery time, and other rumors that he's killing it in practice.

If its not Moreno, watch out for Ball IMO.

Seems odd to be a healthy scratch if this were the case.

Not necessarily - look at Pittsburgh. Dwyer was inactive with Rainey and Batch playing on special teams, Mendenhall handling early down work, and Redman the COP/third down. Moreno doesn't play ST, Ball does. Willis was clearly top dog, and Hillman was COP/third down. Moreno used the time to get his knee back to health, which quotes from Fox suggest the medical staff felt was very beneficial for Knowshon. Even if he was killing it in practice, he's got no role with the other three healthy.

Now, I could easily see him step into the Willis role.

This thinking assumes that Moreno is better than Hillman. They had no problem making Hillman inactive and letting Moreno play. Then, they switched. This team is invested in Hillman's success.

 

[Bayhawks]

Guess we'll see how it plays out. It seems to me that Hillman doesn't have the ability to be what Cosell calls a sustainer, IE get the tough yards inside, keep drives alive, four yards a pop, etc. A "foundation" back is another term he's used.

I think Moreno is interesting here. Saw plenty of comments that the medical staff though Moreno would benefit from added recovery time, and other rumors that he's killing it in practice.

If its not Moreno, watch out for Ball IMO.

Seems odd to be a healthy scratch if this were the case.

Not necessarily - look at Pittsburgh. Dwyer was inactive with Rainey and Batch playing on special teams, Mendenhall handling early down work, and Redman the COP/third down. Moreno doesn't play ST, Ball does. Willis was clearly top dog, and Hillman was COP/third down. Moreno used the time to get his knee back to health, which quotes from Fox suggest the medical staff felt was very beneficial for Knowshon. Even if he was killing it in practice, he's got no role with the other three healthy.

Now, I could easily see him step into the Willis role.

This thinking assumes that Moreno is better than Hillman. They had no problem making Hillman inactive and letting Moreno play. Then, they switched. This team is invested in Hillman's success.

I don't think Moreno will "easily" step into the Willis role. I think it's possible, but not necessarily easy. Also, your contention that "they had no problem making Hillman inactive and letting Moreno play. Then, they switched" is true, but you are ignoring other variables.

1-Moreno was coming off of a significant knee injury. Perhaps he wasn't back to 100% (I don't know-I'm not on the Denver coaching/training staff, I'm only suggesting this as a possibility)

2-McGahee was the starting RB; it's not liked they switched out Moreno as starter for Hillman as starter. They had McGahee starting, with Moreno/Hillman as COP. They always had Lance Ball as another RB option on game days, if needed. So, the decision to activate Hillman over Moreno doesn't necessarily indicate major "investment" in Hillman's success.

3-Hillman is very slight in stature. While he might be able to run between the tackles, I'm not confident of that.

So, if I had a spot at the end of my bench, I'd pick up Moreno, but I wouldn't EXPECT him to become the starter. If it happens, great, if it doesn't, nothing lost.

 

[JFS171]

Guess we'll see how it plays out. It seems to me that Hillman doesn't have the ability to be what Cosell calls a sustainer, IE get the tough yards inside, keep drives alive, four yards a pop, etc. A "foundation" back is another term he's used.

I think Moreno is interesting here. Saw plenty of comments that the medical staff though Moreno would benefit from added recovery time, and other rumors that he's killing it in practice.

If its not Moreno, watch out for Ball IMO.

Seems odd to be a healthy scratch if this were the case.

Not necessarily - look at Pittsburgh. Dwyer was inactive with Rainey and Batch playing on special teams, Mendenhall handling early down work, and Redman the COP/third down. Moreno doesn't play ST, Ball does. Willis was clearly top dog, and Hillman was COP/third down. Moreno used the time to get his knee back to health, which quotes from Fox suggest the medical staff felt was very beneficial for Knowshon. Even if he was killing it in practice, he's got no role with the other three healthy.

Now, I could easily see him step into the Willis role.

This thinking assumes that Moreno is better than Hillman. They had no problem making Hillman inactive and letting Moreno play. Then, they switched. This team is invested in Hillman's success.

I don't think Moreno will "easily" step into the Willis role. I think it's possible, but not necessarily easy. Also, your contention that "they had no problem making Hillman inactive and letting Moreno play. Then, they switched" is true, but you are ignoring other variables.

1-Moreno was coming off of a significant knee injury. Perhaps he wasn't back to 100% (I don't know-I'm not on the Denver coaching/training staff, I'm only suggesting this as a possibility)

2-McGahee was the starting RB; it's not liked they switched out Moreno as starter for Hillman as starter. They had McGahee starting, with Moreno/Hillman as COP. They always had Lance Ball as another RB option on game days, if needed. So, the decision to activate Hillman over Moreno doesn't necessarily indicate major "investment" in Hillman's success.

3-Hillman is very slight in stature. While he might be able to run between the tackles, I'm not confident of that.

So, if I had a spot at the end of my bench, I'd pick up Moreno, but I wouldn't EXPECT him to become the starter. If it happens, great, if it doesn't, nothing lost.

My point exactly. I don't doubt Hillman is a better COP guy than Moreno. I doubt that Hillman is a better between-the-tackles, tough yards inside runner than Moreno.

 

[Bayhawks]

Guess we'll see how it plays out. It seems to me that Hillman doesn't have the ability to be what Cosell calls a sustainer, IE get the tough yards inside, keep drives alive, four yards a pop, etc. A "foundation" back is another term he's used.

I think Moreno is interesting here. Saw plenty of comments that the medical staff though Moreno would benefit from added recovery time, and other rumors that he's killing it in practice.

If its not Moreno, watch out for Ball IMO.

Seems odd to be a healthy scratch if this were the case.

Not necessarily - look at Pittsburgh. Dwyer was inactive with Rainey and Batch playing on special teams, Mendenhall handling early down work, and Redman the COP/third down. Moreno doesn't play ST, Ball does. Willis was clearly top dog, and Hillman was COP/third down. Moreno used the time to get his knee back to health, which quotes from Fox suggest the medical staff felt was very beneficial for Knowshon. Even if he was killing it in practice, he's got no role with the other three healthy.

Now, I could easily see him step into the Willis role.

This thinking assumes that Moreno is better than Hillman. They had no problem making Hillman inactive and letting Moreno play. Then, they switched. This team is invested in Hillman's success.

I don't think Moreno will "easily" step into the Willis role. I think it's possible, but not necessarily easy. Also, your contention that "they had no problem making Hillman inactive and letting Moreno play. Then, they switched" is true, but you are ignoring other variables.

1-Moreno was coming off of a significant knee injury. Perhaps he wasn't back to 100% (I don't know-I'm not on the Denver coaching/training staff, I'm only suggesting this as a possibility)

2-McGahee was the starting RB; it's not liked they switched out Moreno as starter for Hillman as starter. They had McGahee starting, with Moreno/Hillman as COP. They always had Lance Ball as another RB option on game days, if needed. So, the decision to activate Hillman over Moreno doesn't necessarily indicate major "investment" in Hillman's success.

3-Hillman is very slight in stature. While he might be able to run between the tackles, I'm not confident of that.

So, if I had a spot at the end of my bench, I'd pick up Moreno, but I wouldn't EXPECT him to become the starter. If it happens, great, if it doesn't, nothing lost.

My point exactly. I don't doubt Hillman is a better COP guy than Moreno. I doubt that Hillman is a better between-the-tackles, tough yards inside runner than Moreno.

We don't KNOW what kind of b-t-t runner Hillman is. Based on his limited NFL sample, he doesn't seem (to me) to be that effective there. Whether Moreno is much better remains to be seen. Moreno has been underwhelming, thus far, in his NFL career. As I said, though, at this point, he's worth a stash (assuming you don't have to draft a significant contributor to your team).

 

[haterade]

I hate when people say "pick him up... he costs you nothing"

Horsepoop. Every spot on my team every week has some value... and wasting a spot for a chump like no show has a cost.

What a cop out. The real question is "does he have more value than guy to drop for him?". What does his value compared to green or d.brown ... ball forsett etc.

 

[Bayhawks]

I hate when people say "pick him up... he costs you nothing"

Horsepoop. Every spot on my team every week has some value... and wasting a spot for a chump like no show has a cost.

What a cop out. The real question is "does he have more value than guy to drop for him?". What does his value compared to green or d.brown ... ball forsett etc.

Horsepoop? I specifically stated, he's worth the pick up, IF YOU DON'T HAVE TO DROP A SIGNIFICANT CONTRIBUTOR TO YOUR TEAM. If you consider your backup PK/DT/TE, WR4/5/6, etc more important than a guy who has a chance to be the RB (or an important part of a RBBC) for one of the best offenses in the league, then good luck.

 

[Nash]

People invested in Moreno last season despite Lammey insisting that McGahee was the superior option. Now people are investing in Moreno despite Lammey insisting that Hillman is the better option.

 

[SonnyD]

Let me guess, the people suggesting Moreno as the better pickup missed out on Hillman. Sounds about right, huh?

 

[EBF]

Never really liked Hillman despite all the hype. I think it's totally possible that Moreno is better.

Could be wrong, but that's how I feel.

 

[5-ish Finkle]

Regardless of how I feel about Hillman, I already know everything I need to about Moreno. Do not want.

 

[Lavachebeadsman]

Moreno supporters...have you watched him play?

 

[Cookiemonster]

People invested in Moreno last season despite Lammey insisting that McGahee was the superior option. Now people are investing in Moreno despite Lammey insisting that Hillman is the better option.

Or Jeremiah Johnson or Julius Thomas?

 

[Short Corner]

I hate when people say "pick him up... he costs you nothing"

Horsepoop. Every spot on my team every week has some value... and wasting a spot for a chump like no show has a cost.

What a cop out. The real question is "does he have more value than guy to drop for him?". What does his value compared to green or d.brown ... ball forsett etc.

Horsepoop? I specifically stated, he's worth the pick up, IF YOU DON'T HAVE TO DROP A SIGNIFICANT CONTRIBUTOR TO YOUR TEAM. If you consider your backup PK/DT/TE, WR4/5/6, etc more important than a guy who has a chance to be the RB (or an important part of a RBBC) for one of the best offenses in the league, then good luck.

I keep 8 RBs out of 18 roster spots at this point McCoy (Brown), Lynch (Turbin), Hillman, Benson, Forsett, and Quizz. I would sooner pick up an extra DST for match up purposes down the stretch than drop someone on my roster for Knowshow. To think this stiff is going to all of the sudden become an effective NFL RB is delusionally optimistic IMO.

 

[Short Corner]

Regardless of how I feel about Hillman, I already know everything I need to about Moreno. Do not want.

Exactly. He is a known quantity. If Hillman flames out you end up with someone who has the upside of Shonn Green and the floor of Brandon Jacobs.

 

[Bayhawks]

Moreno supporters...have you watched him play?

Yeah, average runner, good receiver. Similar to Addai in that regard, and with Manning, Addai was an average (at best) NFL RB, but was a top-10 FF RB several times.

 

[Bayhawks]

I hate when people say "pick him up... he costs you nothing"

Horsepoop. Every spot on my team every week has some value... and wasting a spot for a chump like no show has a cost.

What a cop out. The real question is "does he have more value than guy to drop for him?". What does his value compared to green or d.brown ... ball forsett etc.

Horsepoop? I specifically stated, he's worth the pick up, IF YOU DON'T HAVE TO DROP A SIGNIFICANT CONTRIBUTOR TO YOUR TEAM. If you consider your backup PK/DT/TE, WR4/5/6, etc more important than a guy who has a chance to be the RB (or an important part of a RBBC) for one of the best offenses in the league, then good luck.

I keep 8 RBs out of 18 roster spots at this point McCoy (Brown), Lynch (Turbin), Hillman, Benson, Forsett, and Quizz. I would sooner pick up an extra DST for match up purposes down the stretch than drop someone on my roster for Knowshow. To think this stiff is going to all of the sudden become an effective NFL RB is delusionally optimistic IMO.

Ah, that explains your bias. You want Hillman to succeed. Because otherwise, why would you be keeping Benson, who isn't even eligible to return until week 14 (AT THE EARLIEST), and is still considering having surgery for his Lisfranc injury, but say that there is NO ONE on your roster who you could see dropping Moreno for? Assuming Benson doesn't have surgery and is cleared week 14, who in their right mind believes that he will be in any kind of football shape? By the time he is back to form, the FF playoffs will be over. Moreno meanwhile, looks to be part of a RBBC, and could (by performance or injury) be a RB getting significant touches during the FF playoffs.Hmmm....which one holds more value?

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Several radio hosts in Denver were saying today that Hillman is a scatback and has done nothing to change that opinion of himself this season. When pressed, most said that Moreno had the most experience carrying the load and would see more action...for what it's worth.

Moreno with 11 carries to Hillman's 2Moreno with 4/26 in the air as well, double digits in PPR leagues right now.

 

[Slapdash]

Moreno with 24 touches for 111 yards. Clearly the man.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Moreno with 24 touches for 111 yards. Clearly the man.

Another shining example of how the SP loves the unknown even when the little bit about the unknown points to someone else getting the touches. Fox has never entrusted a rookie at RB, then add int he scat back label and I don't see Hillman ever getting the load in Denver. I wouldn't even like his dynasty prospects. My money would be on some big back in college TBD at the RB1 next year for Denver unless Moreno really takes the opp to redefine his pro career.

 

[Bayhawks]

I hate when people say "pick him up... he costs you nothing"

Horsepoop. Every spot on my team every week has some value... and wasting a spot for a chump like no show has a cost.

What a cop out. The real question is "does he have more value than guy to drop for him?". What does his value compared to green or d.brown ... ball forsett etc.

Horsepoop? I specifically stated, he's worth the pick up, IF YOU DON'T HAVE TO DROP A SIGNIFICANT CONTRIBUTOR TO YOUR TEAM. If you consider your backup PK/DT/TE, WR4/5/6, etc more important than a guy who has a chance to be the RB (or an important part of a RBBC) for one of the best offenses in the league, then good luck.

I keep 8 RBs out of 18 roster spots at this point McCoy (Brown), Lynch (Turbin), Hillman, Benson, Forsett, and Quizz. I would sooner pick up an extra DST for match up purposes down the stretch than drop someone on my roster for Knowshow. To think this stiff is going to all of the sudden become an effective NFL RB is delusionally optimistic IMO.

Good thing you didn't "waste" a roster spot on that "stiff" Moreno. Much better plan to hold onto the COP back in Den, the 3rd string RB in Houston, and the guy on IR with a Lisfranc injury in GB.

 

[BobbyLayne]

This should have been right in Cecil Lammey's wheelhouse. His town, the team he watches practice every week, the coaches he talks to every week. The rookie RB he has seen every carry from over the last three years. Arguably the most important call he has to make all year.

Whiffed. Completely.

 

[Shutout]

Ok, everyone is universally chanting Hillman so that must mean, go get Moreno.

and there yougo

 

[otb_lifer]

This should have been right in Cecil Lammey's wheelhouse. His town, the team he watches practice every week, the coaches he talks to every week. The rookie RB he has seen every carry from over the last three years. Arguably the most important call he has to make all year.Whiffed. Completely.

... and then some ... might I add that the number of Bilal Powell mentions on the Audible is about 10 times the amount of touches Powell has actually received ... and that's being awfully conservative on the "mentions"

 

[Shutout]

Let me guess, the people suggesting Moreno as the better pickup missed out on Hillman. Sounds about right, huh?

nope. we just knew

 

[Shutout]

Regardless of how I feel about Hillman, I already know everything I need to about Moreno. Do not want.

ever have moments of self-doubt?

 

[5-ish Finkle]

ever have moments of self-doubt?

Certainly not in this case. Don't own Hillman anywhere that it matters. Moreno had a good game. Mazel tov. I am not sad I do not own him.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

John Fox is the great equalizer.

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

Personally not counting out Moreno here until they sign someone off the street and place them in front of him.Obviously fell out of favor, but he did look good in the preseason vs. Arizona. And never underestimate fresh legs late in the season. I think he's their best option over the course of the rest of the year -- having him in the McGahee role and keeping Hillman/Ball where they are.Hillman's looked ok in a COP role, but every big run I've seen have been with him kicking it outside. There's a reason they kept Moreno around. And this is it IMO.

im not a huge Moreno guy but he has very similar skill set to Addai...who was around forever despite lackluster rushing ability.Glad i spent the buck on Moreno (Hillman went for 90% of our FAAB budget. i just didn't see anything from Hillman that showed he could run in tackle.Not to mention they had every chance to deal/cut Moreno and didn't

 

[Bill]

i gotta agree-cecil lammey really whipped on hillman.