Meachem TD scored as offense or defense play? (1 Viewer)

[belljr]

The problem I see with the MFL scoring now is that they are giving the New Orleans D/ST credit for the fumble recovery on the play. If you're going to do that, then you need to credit the TD as well.

I think their stance on this is explained as follows:1. When a change of possession occurs, the team that had been on offense becomes the defense and the team that had been on defense becomes the offense. The rule stating this was referenced earlier in the thread.

2. When the interception occurred, the Redskins became the offense and the Saints became the defense.

3. Thus, when Meachem made the tackle, forced the fumble, and recovered the fumble, he is considered to have been on defense. This is why those could be considered defensive plays resulting in fantasy points credited to the Saints defense.

4. Upon the fumble recovery, the Saints became the offense and the Redskins became the defense. Thus, when Meachem scored the TD, it was an offensive fumble recovery TD, not a defensive TD. Hence, no fantasy points are credited to the Saints defense.

5. I believe that normally, the fact that the defensive player is considered to have become an offensive player upon change of possession is ignored for TDs. That is, I think they figure the player is a defensive player, and thus the defense should be credited with the TD, not the offense (which for fantasy purposes means there would be no credit for such TDs). But in this case, the "defender" who scored the TD is actually an offensive player. Thus, it does make sense that the points would not be credited to the defense.

I know various leagues and sites are scoring it in different ways. IMO the logical way this play should be scored is as follows:

1. The Saints defense does not deserve credit for anything (tackle, forced fumble, fumble recovery, or TD).

2. Whether or not Meachem deserves credit for any or all of those things depends on league scoring (i.e., whether or not leagues are set up to reward individuals for tackles, forced fumbles, fumble recoveries, and/or offensive fumble recovery TDs).

#1 bolded is horribly incorrect.

Not according to section 36 of the rulebookETA: I agree with MFL line of thinking as they posted especially the blurb in post 122 about the McCardell thing also, but sportsline is technically correct.

 

[Tau837]

The problem I see with the MFL scoring now is that they are giving the New Orleans D/ST credit for the fumble recovery on the play. If you're going to do that, then you need to credit the TD as well.

I think their stance on this is explained as follows:1. When a change of possession occurs, the team that had been on offense becomes the defense and the team that had been on defense becomes the offense. The rule stating this was referenced earlier in the thread.

2. When the interception occurred, the Redskins became the offense and the Saints became the defense.

3. Thus, when Meachem made the tackle, forced the fumble, and recovered the fumble, he is considered to have been on defense. This is why those could be considered defensive plays resulting in fantasy points credited to the Saints defense.

4. Upon the fumble recovery, the Saints became the offense and the Redskins became the defense. Thus, when Meachem scored the TD, it was an offensive fumble recovery TD, not a defensive TD. Hence, no fantasy points are credited to the Saints defense.

5. I believe that normally, the fact that the defensive player is considered to have become an offensive player upon change of possession is ignored for TDs. That is, I think they figure the player is a defensive player, and thus the defense should be credited with the TD, not the offense (which for fantasy purposes means there would be no credit for such TDs). But in this case, the "defender" who scored the TD is actually an offensive player. Thus, it does make sense that the points would not be credited to the defense.

I know various leagues and sites are scoring it in different ways. IMO the logical way this play should be scored is as follows:

1. The Saints defense does not deserve credit for anything (tackle, forced fumble, fumble recovery, or TD).

2. Whether or not Meachem deserves credit for any or all of those things depends on league scoring (i.e., whether or not leagues are set up to reward individuals for tackles, forced fumbles, fumble recoveries, and/or offensive fumble recovery TDs).

#1 bolded is horribly incorrect.

You got that right !!! That might be the stupidest thing ever to come from Sportsline, but I can't say that because of those who do their fantasy analysis are even more stupid.

First off, this post had absolutely nothing to do with Sportsline. It had to do with MFL, which you have been repeatedly saying got the play correct.Secondly, you are agreeing that the bolded #1 is incorrect. See post #118 for the text of the NFL rule that shows it is correct.

 

[Hoss_Cartwright]

The problem I see with the MFL scoring now is that they are giving the New Orleans D/ST credit for the fumble recovery on the play. If you're going to do that, then you need to credit the TD as well.

I think their stance on this is explained as follows:1. When a change of possession occurs, the team that had been on offense becomes the defense and the team that had been on defense becomes the offense. The rule stating this was referenced earlier in the thread.

2. When the interception occurred, the Redskins became the offense and the Saints became the defense.

3. Thus, when Meachem made the tackle, forced the fumble, and recovered the fumble, he is considered to have been on defense. This is why those could be considered defensive plays resulting in fantasy points credited to the Saints defense.

4. Upon the fumble recovery, the Saints became the offense and the Redskins became the defense. Thus, when Meachem scored the TD, it was an offensive fumble recovery TD, not a defensive TD. Hence, no fantasy points are credited to the Saints defense.

5. I believe that normally, the fact that the defensive player is considered to have become an offensive player upon change of possession is ignored for TDs. That is, I think they figure the player is a defensive player, and thus the defense should be credited with the TD, not the offense (which for fantasy purposes means there would be no credit for such TDs). But in this case, the "defender" who scored the TD is actually an offensive player. Thus, it does make sense that the points would not be credited to the defense.

I know various leagues and sites are scoring it in different ways. IMO the logical way this play should be scored is as follows:

1. The Saints defense does not deserve credit for anything (tackle, forced fumble, fumble recovery, or TD).

2. Whether or not Meachem deserves credit for any or all of those things depends on league scoring (i.e., whether or not leagues are set up to reward individuals for tackles, forced fumbles, fumble recoveries, and/or offensive fumble recovery TDs).

#1 bolded is horribly incorrect.

No it's not. See post #118, which contains the text of the rule.

Big difference in that and awarding points to a fantasy team's defense when they aren't on the field.

 

[bryhamm]

Just my .02 but once there is a change of possession, the team on the field becomes the defensive team. Regardless that Brees was playing safety on the play (just kidding) Meacham's rip for six was a defensive takeaway and TD. I know it was a crazy play but I don't think the explanation is all that complicated.

Do you realize that if you continue with this thought, there can never be a defensive TD. With your logic, the following chain would be true1. Change of possession.

2. Team that was on offense is now on defense.

3. Team that was on defense is now on offense.

4. The safety that then intercepted the pass and has become an offense player has now scored.

So, no defense TD per your thought.

Just Win Baby -So you admit that there can never be a defensive TD then, right?

 

[Mr. Retukes]

Now tell me how; "This is the number of offensive fumble recoveries that are returned all the way for a TD. This ONLY includes fumbles that are recovered by a player's own team." could possibly mean that an offensive player from one team who strips a defensive player from another team and returns it for a touchdown is credited with an "Offensive Fumble Recovery Touchdown?

I think it's pretty obvious what they mean, though they worded the description poorly. I believe what they mean is that if a player whose team began the play on offense recovers a fumble for a TD, it is an offensive fumble recovery TD.

I agree that the wording is pretty clunky, and if you set up your MFL league with the impression that these TDs would NOT be credited to the offensive player, then maybe you have a legit complaint (with MFL). But if you had searched the MFL help center when you set up your rules, you would have immediately discovered the intent of their rule.Regardless, MFL's intent is to score all Offensive Fumble Recovery TDs to the offensive player -- no matter how many changes of possession take place.

 

[~OMM~]

Here is how rtsports.com is handling the issue in case anybody is curious. I am not sure it is correct...just pointing it out.

ALERT from RealTime Fantasy Sports

In the New Orleans - Washington game:

Drew Brees threw a pass that was intercepted by K. Moore of the Redskins. Moore returned the ball to the Washington 44, where he was stripped of the ball by Robert Meachem, who then ran for the touchdown.

Per our policy regarding these types of plays, this is an offensive fumble recovery touchdown for Meachem and NOT a defensive fumble recovery touchdown for the Saints. The intent of having a defensive unit on a fantasy team is to own the defensive players of that team; clearly the Saints defensive unit was never on the field at any time during the play.

Thank you for your understanding in this matter.

 

[Cybergeek]

I think it's pretty obvious what they mean, though they worded the description poorly. I believe what they mean is that if a player whose team began the play on offense recovers a fumble for a TD, it is an offensive fumble recovery TD.

How do you interpret it that way when it clearly states that it applies only when one offensive player recovers a teammates fumble and returns it for a touchdown. I will quote again from MFL."This ONLY includes fumbles that are recovered by a player's own team."

This ... ONLY ... includes ... etc.

 

[PoolShark]

There seem to be 2 key issues here... Whether Meachum should get points & whether the Saints D should get points.

Meachum is simple. It wasn't a rushing TD, it wasn't a receiving TD. So it boils down to whether or not your specific league awards points for other types of TDs. The league I commish, players are awarded points for "any other TD." This is primarily kick & punt returns, but also applies here, so he got points. Another league I play in doesn't award "other TD" points, so he gets nothing.

The issue with the Saints D boils down to the fact that sites like CBS are taking the NFL's rule (that once the ball is turned over the offense becomes defense) literally and applying it to fantasy football, when that shouldn't be the case. More intelligent sites like MFL & RTS aren't doing this because it's idiotic. The spirit of drafting a team defense (comprimised of defensive players) is so that you get points when that defense gets sacks, turnovers, etc. The Saints D wasn't even on the field & shouldn't get credit for doing anything.

 

[Tau837]

I think it's pretty obvious what they mean, though they worded the description poorly. I believe what they mean is that if a player whose team began the play on offense recovers a fumble for a TD, it is an offensive fumble recovery TD.

How do you interpret it that way when it clearly states that it applies only when one offensive player recovers a teammates fumble and returns it for a touchdown. I will quote again from MFL."This ONLY includes fumbles that are recovered by a player's own team."

This ... ONLY ... includes ... etc.

Because I think "recovered by a player's own team" really means (and thus should be reworded to) "recovered by a player on the team that began the play on offense."I know that's not what it says. But that's the only way to reconcile this wording with the ruling they have made on this particular play.

 

[Mr. Retukes]

I think it's pretty obvious what they mean, though they worded the description poorly. I believe what they mean is that if a player whose team began the play on offense recovers a fumble for a TD, it is an offensive fumble recovery TD.

How do you interpret it that way when it clearly states that it applies only when one offensive player recovers a teammates fumble and returns it for a touchdown. I will quote again from MFL."This ONLY includes fumbles that are recovered by a player's own team."

This ... ONLY ... includes ... etc.

"recovered by a player's own team" is not the same as "recovered FROM a player's own team". You're assuming facts not in evidence. Nowhere does MFL state that the player must recover a teammate's fumble.

 

[bryhamm]

There seem to be 2 key issues here... Whether Meachum should get points & whether the Saints D should get points.Meachum is simple. It wasn't a rushing TD, it wasn't a receiving TD. So it boils down to whether or not your specific league awards points for other types of TDs. The league I commish, players are awarded points for "any other TD." This is primarily kick & punt returns, but also applies here, so he got points. Another league I play in doesn't award "other TD" points, so he gets nothing.The issue with the Saints D boils down to the fact that sites like CBS are taking the NFL's rule (that once the ball is turned over the offense becomes defense) literally and applying it to fantasy football, when that shouldn't be the case. More intelligent sites like MFL & RTS aren't doing this because it's idiotic. The spirit of drafting a team defense (comprimised of defensive players) is so that you get points when that defense gets sacks, turnovers, etc. The Saints D wasn't even on the field & shouldn't get credit for doing anything.

 

[Hoss_Cartwright]

There seem to be 2 key issues here... Whether Meachum should get points & whether the Saints D should get points.Meachum is simple. It wasn't a rushing TD, it wasn't a receiving TD. So it boils down to whether or not your specific league awards points for other types of TDs. The league I commish, players are awarded points for "any other TD." This is primarily kick & punt returns, but also applies here, so he got points. Another league I play in doesn't award "other TD" points, so he gets nothing.The issue with the Saints D boils down to the fact that sites like CBS are taking the NFL's rule (that once the ball is turned over the offense becomes defense) literally and applying it to fantasy football, when that shouldn't be the case. More intelligent sites like MFL & RTS aren't doing this because it's idiotic. The spirit of drafting a team defense (comprimised of defensive players) is so that you get points when that defense gets sacks, turnovers, etc. The Saints D wasn't even on the field & shouldn't get credit for doing anything.

Very well said.Noticinig your avatar, I've won a few 9 ball pool tournaments when I was younger. I lived in a pool room from about 9 years of age until I left for college.

 

[SmashEmUp]

Meachum is simple. It wasn't a rushing TD, it wasn't a receiving TD. So it boils down to whether or not your specific league awards points for other types of TDs. The league I commish, players are awarded points for "any other TD." This is primarily kick & punt returns, but also applies here, so he got points. Another league I play in doesn't award "other TD" points, so he gets nothing.

The issue with the Saints D boils down to the fact that sites like CBS are taking the NFL's rule (that once the ball is turned over the offense becomes defense) literally and applying it to fantasy football, when that shouldn't be the case. More intelligent sites like MFL & RTS aren't doing this because it's idiotic. The spirit of drafting a team defense (comprimised of defensive players) is so that you get points when that defense gets sacks, turnovers, etc. The Saints D wasn't even on the field & shouldn't get credit for doing anything.

 

[Tau837]

Just Win Baby -So you admit that there can never be a defensive TD then, right?

As I said in the post you originally quoted:

I believe that normally, the fact that the defensive player is considered to have become an offensive player upon change of possession is ignored for TDs. That is, I think they figure the player is a defensive player, and thus the defense should be credited with the TD, not the offense (which for fantasy purposes means there would be no credit for such TDs). But in this case, the "defender" who scored the TD is actually an offensive player. Thus, it does make sense that the points would not be credited to the defense.

I don't know if this is somehow addressed specifically in the rulebook, but if all we have to go on is the text posted in post #118, this is my assumption.

 

[Cybergeek]

Now tell me how; "This is the number of offensive fumble recoveries that are returned all the way for a TD. This ONLY includes fumbles that are recovered by a player's own team." could possibly mean that an offensive player from one team who strips a defensive player from another team and returns it for a touchdown is credited with an "Offensive Fumble Recovery Touchdown?

I think it's pretty obvious what they mean, though they worded the description poorly. I believe what they mean is that if a player whose team began the play on offense recovers a fumble for a TD, it is an offensive fumble recovery TD.

I agree that the wording is pretty clunky, and if you set up your MFL league with the impression that these TDs would NOT be credited to the offensive player, then maybe you have a legit complaint (with MFL). But if you had searched the MFL help center when you set up your rules, you would have immediately discovered the intent of their rule.Regardless, MFL's intent is to score all Offensive Fumble Recovery TDs to the offensive player -- no matter how many changes of possession take place.

I did search the MFL help center when I set up my leagues, years and years ago. The wording has always been the same regaring the scoring option in question. "This ONLY includes fumbles that are recovered by a player's own team." In 1993, when this last happened, I was using FLM and had total control of how these types of plays were scored.

 

[belljr]

There seem to be 2 key issues here... Whether Meachum should get points & whether the Saints D should get points.Meachum is simple. It wasn't a rushing TD, it wasn't a receiving TD. So it boils down to whether or not your specific league awards points for other types of TDs. The league I commish, players are awarded points for "any other TD." This is primarily kick & punt returns, but also applies here, so he got points. Another league I play in doesn't award "other TD" points, so he gets nothing.The issue with the Saints D boils down to the fact that sites like CBS are taking the NFL's rule (that once the ball is turned over the offense becomes defense) literally and applying it to fantasy football, when that shouldn't be the case. More intelligent sites like MFL & RTS aren't doing this because it's idiotic. The spirit of drafting a team defense (comprimised of defensive players) is so that you get points when that defense gets sacks, turnovers, etc. The Saints D wasn't even on the field & shouldn't get credit for doing anything.

Agree with this 100%.

 

[RUSF18]

I think it's pretty obvious what they mean, though they worded the description poorly. I believe what they mean is that if a player whose team began the play on offense recovers a fumble for a TD, it is an offensive fumble recovery TD.

How do you interpret it that way when it clearly states that it applies only when one offensive player recovers a teammates fumble and returns it for a touchdown. I will quote again from MFL."This ONLY includes fumbles that are recovered by a player's own team."

This ... ONLY ... includes ... etc.

I think, like someone else said, it's just poorly written across the board. Remember the first sentence you quoted? "This is the number of offensive fumble recoveries that are returned all the way for a TD." How many times have you heard of a purely offensive TD being refered to as "returned all the way"? In order for something to be returned, in every situation I've heard before, the ball was moving in one direction of the field at one point, and ended up going the other way into the end zone.

I think they're (poorly) implying that a change of possession occurred, so a player who originally started on offense is on offense again and gets credit for the TD.

 

[SmashEmUp]

This is funny. Yahoo went back and forth with this about 10 times in the span of a half hour or so earlier today. I kept checking my league and the points would be there, then not there, then back again, and so on...until they settled, for the time being, on giving Meachem the points.

My fleaflicker league had it scored as a defensive touchdown earlier...now it is changed to a rushing TD ???



Maybe there should be some "Official International Fantasy League Commission" or something...made up of members of all the major sites, that issue rulings on things like this.

 

[Mr. Retukes]

Now tell me how; "This is the number of offensive fumble recoveries that are returned all the way for a TD. This ONLY includes fumbles that are recovered by a player's own team." could possibly mean that an offensive player from one team who strips a defensive player from another team and returns it for a touchdown is credited with an "Offensive Fumble Recovery Touchdown?

I think it's pretty obvious what they mean, though they worded the description poorly. I believe what they mean is that if a player whose team began the play on offense recovers a fumble for a TD, it is an offensive fumble recovery TD.

I agree that the wording is pretty clunky, and if you set up your MFL league with the impression that these TDs would NOT be credited to the offensive player, then maybe you have a legit complaint (with MFL). But if you had searched the MFL help center when you set up your rules, you would have immediately discovered the intent of their rule.Regardless, MFL's intent is to score all Offensive Fumble Recovery TDs to the offensive player -- no matter how many changes of possession take place.

I did search the MFL help center when I set up my leagues, years and years ago. The wording has always been the same regaring the scoring option in question. "This ONLY includes fumbles that are recovered by a player's own team."

Then you should have seen this:Offensive Fumble Recovery TD Following A Turnover.

* Scenario: Team A has the ball and passes or rushes with it.

o In a pass scenario, Team A throws an interception to Player B1 on Team B. Player B1 subsequently fumbles the ball. The recovery is made by Player A2 on Team A who runs it in for a TD.

o In a rush scenario, Player A1 on Team A fumbles the ball to Player B1 on Team B. Player B1 subsequently fumbles the ball and the resulting recovery is made by a Player A2 on Team A who runs it in for a TD.

* Result: Player A2 is awarded an ‘Offensive Fumble Recovery TD’ from the distance from the recovery to the end zone. This is not considered a Defensive Team TD because the Team A defense was not on the field.

That's been posted in MFL's help center since 2003.

 

[Sarnoff]

Like I said, everyone's league is different. The important thing is that whatever rule your league has, it be consistent, especially when scoring botched kicks, muffed catches, and the other similar instances where this same thread pops up over and over again and we all argue the same old points only to realize the rules in place are the rules in place.

 

[Cybergeek]

I think it's pretty obvious what they mean, though they worded the description poorly. I believe what they mean is that if a player whose team began the play on offense recovers a fumble for a TD, it is an offensive fumble recovery TD.

How do you interpret it that way when it clearly states that it applies only when one offensive player recovers a teammates fumble and returns it for a touchdown. I will quote again from MFL."This ONLY includes fumbles that are recovered by a player's own team."

This ... ONLY ... includes ... etc.

"recovered by a player's own team" is not the same as "recovered FROM a player's own team". You're assuming facts not in evidence. Nowhere does MFL state that the player must recover a teammate's fumble.

Who else but a teammate could have commited said fumble if it were to be "recovered by a player's own team"? I will now refer to the example section. Why does it state that if player A from team Z fumbles and player B also from team Z recovers and returns it for a touchdown then it is considered an Offensive fumble recovery touchdown?I'm not assuming anything, or reading between the lines or interpreting what it says, I'm going by exactly what it states.

"This is the number of offensive fumble recoveries that are returned all the way for a TD. This ONLY includes fumbles that are recovered by a player's own team. For example, if

a Running Back fumbles at the 1 yard line right before scoring a TD, and then a Wide Receiver on the same team recovers the ball at the 1 yard line and advances to the

endzone for a TD, then it is considered an Offensive fumble recovery TD."

 

[gianmarco]

Maybe there should be some "Official International Fantasy League Commission" or something...made up of members of all the major sites, that issue rulings on things like this.

There is. It's called the Shark Pool.

 

[SmashEmUp]

Regardless of whether that TD counts in fantasy or not, Meachem is slowly becoming a fantasy must start. This week against a good pass D: Robert Meachem caught eight passes for 142 yards with a touchdown Week 13. Meachem scored another touchdown by forcing a fumble after an interception. He isn't just catching the deep seam passes anymore, but is being used in many different situations and he always seems to catch the ball and do something good with it. He is becoming: Robert "All he does is score TDs" Meachem.

Agreed. I picked him up in both my leagues a couple weeks ago. He was on the bench in one, and starting in the other against a team I beat pretty easily, so however it is eventually scored isn't a big deal to me. But I was surprised to find out that going into this week he was still only owned in like 30% of leagues and started in under 20%. He is coming up big time week after week. Hopefully he can be a difference maker in fantasy league playoffs

 

[Dbbr]

This seems so idiotic to be anything other than points for Meachem.

Sportsline is out of their minds. Not one New Orleans defensive player is involved in the play, yet that position is awarded 6 points, while Meachem made the play, and he/his owner receives nothing.

What's next....when Ronnie Brown or Josh Cribbs lines up at QB in the wildcat, their stats start to accumulate under "Team QB"????

Or when a defensive player lines up on offense, we see stats for the defense???

Just tonight Rolle lined up at QB for Arizona and ran for 9 yards.

Drafts and auctions are done with roster position determining who can be drafted where. That should remain in place throughout the game and not adjusted based on game situations, imo.

 

[Mr. Retukes]

I think it's pretty obvious what they mean, though they worded the description poorly. I believe what they mean is that if a player whose team began the play on offense recovers a fumble for a TD, it is an offensive fumble recovery TD.

How do you interpret it that way when it clearly states that it applies only when one offensive player recovers a teammates fumble and returns it for a touchdown. I will quote again from MFL."This ONLY includes fumbles that are recovered by a player's own team."

This ... ONLY ... includes ... etc.

"recovered by a player's own team" is not the same as "recovered FROM a player's own team". You're assuming facts not in evidence. Nowhere does MFL state that the player must recover a teammate's fumble.

Who else but a teammate could have commited said fumble if it were to be "recovered by a player's own team"?

Technically speaking, as long as Meachem remains a member of his own team, then the verbiage is grammatically accurate.I realize that it sounds odd, but that's to be expected when arguing semantics.

Was the fumble recovered by Meachem's own team? Yes. Therefore, Meachem gets the points in MFL.

I don't think I can explain it any better than that. If you still don't get it -- even after MFL sends you the inevitable email telling you that it won't alter your score -- then there's not much else that can be done for you.

 

[SmashEmUp]

Maybe there should be some "Official International Fantasy League Commission" or something...made up of members of all the major sites, that issue rulings on things like this.

There is. It's called the Shark Pool.

The Shark Pool was really divided on this issue earlier...but yeah, it seems that reason has prevailed and most agree with no TD for NO defense and TD (no other yardage points) for Meachem only if the settings in your league allow TD's for offensive fumble recoveries. Because to give NO defense a touchdown when they are on the sideline is absurd. As long as reason eventually prevails, it looks like this site is the place.

 

[Brides Maids]

As soon as change of possession occurs, the "offense" becomes the "defense" so it obviously should be credited as a D/ST TD for the Saints. The specific player, just because he is an "offensive player" doesn't matter.

BUT there is a second "Change of possession" at which time the "Defense" would again switch to its original and true form of Offense making Meachum once again a WR recovering a fumble and rushing for the the YDS and TD points.

 

[Binky The Doormat]

Has this been posted? Didn't see it ...its directly from the Help section Q&As from MFL (we set this up due to the referenced occurance several years ago). This beat me today ...

Top 10 Support Questions # Question

1. How is the Fumble Recovery TD after an Interception in the Saints game being scored?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Answer: At the end of the first half, Kareem More of the Redskins intercepted a pass from Drew Brees of the Saints. During the interception return, Moore proceeded to fumble the ball, and then Robert Meachem of the Saints recovered the fumble and ran 43 yards for a TD.

This play is scored as a 43 yard "Offensive Fumble Recovery TD" for Robert Meachem. If your league wants Meachem to receive the points for this touchdown, then you'll need to make sure the "Offensive Fumble Recovery TD" rule is defined in your scoring rules for the WR position.

This play is NOT scored as a Defensive Fumble Recovery TD for the Saints Team Defense position, since their defensive unit was not on the field during that play. If your league wants to score this play differently than how it shows up in the stats, then your commissioner would need to use the "For Commissioners > Adjust Scores and Standings > Player Score Adjuster" screen to add or subtract points to Meachem or the Saints Defense as needed.

Note that for what it is worth, the last time this type of touchdown occurred was 6 years ago in 2003 when the Buccaneers threw an Interception, which was then fumbled and then Keenan McCardell recovered it an ran it in for a TD. So this type of play is very rare, but it was scored the same way the last time it happened.

 

[TheFanatic]

MFL counted it as a D/ST TD till about 5 minutes ago. Did that happen everywhere or was that done by my commish?

It's MFL-wide. It'll be reverse again though. That situation happens all the time, and the D is always credited. I suppose some leagues have rules that say otherwise, but the default in MFL is for those points to be credited to the D/ST.

I have the points for the Fumble recovery but not the TD. Very strange...

My MFL league gave Meachem 1 Offensive FumRec TD

That's weird. I can't figure it out. Why do I get the fumble recovery and not the TD... I just hope it doesn't make the difference in my game as it is a playoff game..

I just lost by less than a point. If I got credit for the TD I would win the game... Not happy...

 

[zed2283]

This is why it should be scored as a defensive TD. You can't have a TD that is not awarded fantasy points.

1. Why not? There have been numerous NFL TDs which did not award fantasy points.2. Then give the points to Meachem, since he scored the TD.

Like what?

Like when an offensive lineman recovers a fumble and scores a TD. I'd guess that less than 1% of fantasy leagues even have the option of awarding those points.

If your league uses offensive linemen, then they are awarded a TD. Simple. It's still awardable.The Meacham TD is either a defensive score or a score for Meacham. There is no other way to score it.

 

[TheFanatic]

Has this been posted? Didn't see it ...its directly from the Help section Q&As from MFL (we set this up due to the referenced occurance several years ago). This beat me today ...Top 10 Support Questions # Question 1. How is the Fumble Recovery TD after an Interception in the Saints game being scored?--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Answer: At the end of the first half, Kareem More of the Redskins intercepted a pass from Drew Brees of the Saints. During the interception return, Moore proceeded to fumble the ball, and then Robert Meachem of the Saints recovered the fumble and ran 43 yards for a TD. This play is scored as a 43 yard "Offensive Fumble Recovery TD" for Robert Meachem. If your league wants Meachem to receive the points for this touchdown, then you'll need to make sure the "Offensive Fumble Recovery TD" rule is defined in your scoring rules for the WR position. This play is NOT scored as a Defensive Fumble Recovery TD for the Saints Team Defense position, since their defensive unit was not on the field during that play. If your league wants to score this play differently than how it shows up in the stats, then your commissioner would need to use the "For Commissioners > Adjust Scores and Standings > Player Score Adjuster" screen to add or subtract points to Meachem or the Saints Defense as needed. Note that for what it is worth, the last time this type of touchdown occurred was 6 years ago in 2003 when the Buccaneers threw an Interception, which was then fumbled and then Keenan McCardell recovered it an ran it in for a TD. So this type of play is very rare, but it was scored the same way the last time it happened.

Then why was it credited as a Defensive score at first and then changed after the fact? And how does the fumble recovery count for two points and not the TD. Seems like it would need to be neither or both...

 

[Cybergeek]

Then you should have seen this:

Offensive Fumble Recovery TD Following A Turnover.

* Scenario: Team A has the ball and passes or rushes with it.

o In a pass scenario, Team A throws an interception to Player B1 on Team B. Player B1 subsequently fumbles the ball. The recovery is made by Player A2 on Team A who runs it in for a TD.

o In a rush scenario, Player A1 on Team A fumbles the ball to Player B1 on Team B. Player B1 subsequently fumbles the ball and the resulting recovery is made by a Player A2 on Team A who runs it in for a TD.

* Result: Player A2 is awarded an ‘Offensive Fumble Recovery TD’ from the distance from the recovery to the end zone. This is not considered a Defensive Team TD because the Team A defense was not on the field.

That's been posted in MFL's help center since 2003.

Thanks. Yes I have read that. Unlike you I can't remember what year I read or nor can I find anything that reveals when that particular entry was added. Just for the sake of showing the entire picture instead of posting little snippets that may seem to make my point, I'll post the entire answer from the same help center entry. I couldn't tell you when the Offensive Fumble Recovery TD Following A Turnover part that you quoted was added. I can tell you that when I set up my league scoring, I added the Offensive Fumble Recovery touchdowns option to my league scoring. I checked the MFL definition of what that scoring would involve. I have quoted it here too many times already.The answer below from the section that you snipped has been updated many times as new scenarios arise.

From time to time the NFL games produce what we call a special play. That is, a play that doesn’t easily or directly transfer from the professional game to the fantasy game. For most of these occurrences MyFantasyLeague.com offers our Strange Plays site news. However, to see how MyFantasyLeague.com scores the most common of these, please read on…

Offensive Fumble Recovery TD.

Scenario: Team A has the ball and a Player A1 fumbles the ball. A teammate, Player A2, recovers it and runs it in for a TD.

Result: Player A2 is awarded an ‘Offensive Fumble Recovery TD’ for the distance from the recovery to the end zone.

Kickoff/Punt Return TD Following a Fumble.

Scenario: Team A kicks/punts the ball to Team B. Player B1 fields the kick and subsequently fumbles the ball. A teammate, Player B2, recovers the fumble and continues to run for the TD.

Result: This is just a variation on the ‘Offensive Fumble Recovery TD’ above. The teammate who recovered the ball is awarded an ‘Offensive Fumble Recovery TD’ for the distance from the recovery to the end zone. He is not awarded a Kick or Punt Return TD.

Defensive Fumble Recovery TD.

Scenario: Team A has the ball and fumbles it. Player B1 on Team B recovers it and runs it in for a TD.

Result: Team B and the Player B1 are awarded a ‘Defensive Fumble Recovery TD’ for the distance from the recovery to the end zone.

Offensive Fumble Recovery TD Following A Turnover.

Scenario: Team A has the ball and passes or rushes with it.

In a pass scenario, Team A throws an interception to Player B1 on Team B. Player B1 subsequently fumbles the ball. The recovery is made by Player A2 on Team A who runs it in for a TD.

In a rush scenario, Player A1 on Team A fumbles the ball to Player B1 on Team B. Player B1 subsequently fumbles the ball and the resulting recovery is made by a Player A2 on Team A who runs it in for a TD.>

Result: Player A2 is awarded an ‘Offensive Fumble Recovery TD’ from the distance from the recovery to the end zone. This is not considered a Defensive Team TD because the Team A defense was not on the field.

Defensive Fumble Recovery TD Following A Turnover.

Scenario: Team A has the ball and passes or rushes with it.

In a pass scenario, Team A throws an interception to Player B1 on Team B. Player B1 subsequently fumbles the ball. The recovery is made by Player B2 on Team B who runs it in for a TD.

In a rush scenario, Player A1 on Team A fumbles the ball to Player B1 on Team B. Player B1 subsequently fumbles the ball and the resulting recovery is made by a Player B2 on Team B who runs it in for a TD.

Result: Player B2 is awarded an ‘Defensive Fumble Recovery TD’ from the distance from the recovery to the end zone.

Rushing/Receiving Lateral Resulting In A TD.

Scenario: Team A has the ball and Player A1 rushes/receives-a-pass first and then laterals to a Player A2. Player A2 then rushes in for a TD.

Result: Player A1 is awarded one rush/reception and the rushing/receiving yardage for the run/reception from scrimmage through the lateral. Player A2 is awarded zero rushes/receptions and rushing/receiving yardage from the point of the lateral to the end zone. Player A2 is also awarded a Rushing/Receiving TD in the amount of the total yardage of the play.

Kickoff/Punt Return Lateral Resulting In A TD.

Scenario: Team A is receiving a kickoff/punt and upon catching the ball, Player A1 returns it for a few yards before he laterals to a Player A2. Player A2 then rushes in for a TD.

Result: Player A1 is awarded one kickoff/punt return along with the kickoff/punt return yardage from the point in which he caught the ball to the point in which he lateralled to his teammate. Player A2 is awarded zero returns and kickoff/punt return yardage from the point of the lateral to the end zone. Player A2 is also awarded a Kickoff/Punt Return TD in the amount of the total yardage of the play.

Rushing/Receiving Multiple-Lateral Resulting In A TD.

Scenario: Team A has the ball and Player A1 rushes/receives-a-pass first and then laterals to a Player A2. Player A2 rushes before he laterals to Player A3 (this could continue to Player A4, A5, etc.) who rushes in for a TD.

Result: Player A1 is awarded one rush/reception and the rushing/receiving yardage for the run/reception from scrimmage through the lateral. Player A2 is awarded zero rushes/receptions and rushing/receiving yardage from the point of getting his lateral from Player A1 to the point where he laterals the ball to Player A3. Player A3 is awarded zero rushes/receptions and rushing/receiving yardage from the point of getting his lateral from Player A2 to the end zone. Player A3 is also awarded a Rushing/Receiving TD in the amount of the total yardage of the play.

Non-Scoring Laterals.

Scenario: Team A has the ball and Player A1 rushes/receives-a-pass first and then laterals to a Player A2. Player A2 rushes before he laterals to Player A3 (this could continue to Player A4, A5, etc).

Result: Player A1 is awarded one rush/reception and the rushing/receiving yardage for the run/reception from scrimmage through the lateral. Player A2 is awarded zero rushes/receptions and rushing/receiving yardage from the point of getting his lateral from Player A1 to the point where he laterals the ball to Player A3. Player A3 is awarded zero rushes/receptions and rushing/receiving yardage from the point of getting his lateral from Player A2 to the point at which he laterals to another player or is tackled.

Fake or Broken Play Resulting In A TD.

Scenario: Team A scores a Rushing (or Passing) TD as the result of a fake or broken play.

Result: Regardless of whether this play started out offensively or as a Special Teams play (i.e., a punt or FG formation), the NFL, and myfantasyleague.com by extension, recognize this as a Rushing (or Passing TD) awarded to the team offense and the players involved for the distance from the line of scrimmage to the end zone.

Fake or Broken PAT

Scenario: Team A lines up for an extra point try, but the kick never occurs. This includes a bad snap, a bad hold, or any other reason why the kick was never actually attempted.

Result: If the play results in a score, it's defined as a regular 2-point pass/rush conversion as if Team A had lined up for a 2-point conversion from the start. However, if the play fails it is recorded as a failed 2-point conversion; a failed 2-pt pass if a player on Team A clearly throws the ball to a receiver or a failed 2-pt rush if a player on Team A attempts to run into the end zone or simply gets tackled.

Missed FG Return TD.

Scenario: Team A kicks a FG that comes up short. A player on Team B catches the missed FG and returns it the entire length of the field for a TD.

Result: The player on Team B is awarded a 'Missed Field Goal Return TD'. Note that this is considered to be miscellaneous yardage, so there isn't any return yardage associated with the play.

QB Pass-to-Himself TD.

Scenario: A QB throws a pass that gets deflected back to him. After catching his own pass, he subsequently runs for a TD.

Result: The QB receives one TD completion and one TD reception. In addition, he receives both passing and receiving yardage each equal to the distance of the play.

A Score Against A Non-Existent Defense.

Scenario: Team A scores even though Team B thinks the play, quarter, half, or game has ended and it’s defense is not on the field.

Result: The score for Team A counts as it normally would have had Team B’s defense been playing.

Official Scoring Changes.

Scenario: Team A is awarded TD or other score even though they did get the ball past the goal line.

Result: The score for Team A stands as long as the NFL officially counts it. There is NO site on the Internet that offers Official scoring changes. The closest-to-official place to look is the NFL.com GameBooks (but even these have occasional errors). No other NFL.com page or any other page on the Internet should be considered official.

Multi-Position Players.

Scenario: Player A is listed on a NFL team's official web site roster as playing at two positions. How are his stats broken down for each position?

Result: Since fantasy point awards are based on stats as opposed to positions, the only potential for confusion is whether or not to let dual-position players be switched from week to week or locked in to a single position. This is a league-specific decision. In cases where one of the dual positions includes a team position (i.e., Team QB), myfantasyleague.com will award the stats to that player based on where he lined up for the play.

Muffed Punt.

Scenario: Player A is part of a return team and while receiving a punt, he lets the ball make contact with him before losing control.

Result: Regardless of whether the player actively touches the ball or the ball touches the player, when the player loses control, Player A is charged with a muffed punt, which translates in the statistics to a fumble. At this point, the ball remains live allowing either team (return or kicking) to make a recovery. If Player B from the kicking team makes the recovery, then Player A is also charged for a 'fumble lost' and Player B is awarded a 'fumble recovery'. Note that the kicking team cannot advance the ball beyond the spot of the recovery.

Unfinished Game.

Scenario: A NFL game is postponed (whether or not it started at the scheduled date & time) or rescheduled.

Result: The end result of this unique situation will be addressed on a per-instance basis. We will follow the NFL's lead as to how we proceed.

 

[D'OHtis]

you'll need to make sure the "Offensive Fumble Recovery TD" rule is defined in your scoring rules for the WR position.

/thread

 

[Brides Maids]

Mr. Retukes. The key is the change of possession.

You do realize that there were 2 changes of possessions right?!? BTW the key is NOT the "change of possession" it is how each leagues individual rules are set up and specified to deal with a situation like this. Also if there is a contingency plan in place to deal with situations that arise that have not been taken into consideration...ie "we go by however CBSSports scores it."

 

[Cybergeek]

I think it's pretty obvious what they mean, though they worded the description poorly. I believe what they mean is that if a player whose team began the play on offense recovers a fumble for a TD, it is an offensive fumble recovery TD.

How do you interpret it that way when it clearly states that it applies only when one offensive player recovers a teammates fumble and returns it for a touchdown. I will quote again from MFL."This ONLY includes fumbles that are recovered by a player's own team."

This ... ONLY ... includes ... etc.

"recovered by a player's own team" is not the same as "recovered FROM a player's own team". You're assuming facts not in evidence. Nowhere does MFL state that the player must recover a teammate's fumble.

Who else but a teammate could have commited said fumble if it were to be "recovered by a player's own team"?

Technically speaking, as long as Meachem remains a member of his own team, then the verbiage is grammatically accurate.I realize that it sounds odd, but that's to be expected when arguing semantics.

Was the fumble recovered by Meachem's own team? Yes. Therefore, Meachem gets the points in MFL.

I don't think I can explain it any better than that. If you still don't get it -- even after MFL sends you the inevitable email telling you that it won't alter your score -- then there's not much else that can be done for you.

I don't need a score altered, Meachem wasn't a factor in any games from my leagues. I need the scoring rules to match what MFL describes their function to be. If they meant it to cover any offensive player scoring a touchdown after a fumble, then change the entry which spells out it's funtion. Instead of saying that it ONLY includes fumbles that are recovered by a player's own team, say that it covers ALL fumble recoveries by an offensive player.

 

[Tau837]

I think it's pretty obvious what they mean, though they worded the description poorly. I believe what they mean is that if a player whose team began the play on offense recovers a fumble for a TD, it is an offensive fumble recovery TD.

How do you interpret it that way when it clearly states that it applies only when one offensive player recovers a teammates fumble and returns it for a touchdown. I will quote again from MFL."This ONLY includes fumbles that are recovered by a player's own team."

This ... ONLY ... includes ... etc.

"recovered by a player's own team" is not the same as "recovered FROM a player's own team". You're assuming facts not in evidence. Nowhere does MFL state that the player must recover a teammate's fumble.

Who else but a teammate could have commited said fumble if it were to be "recovered by a player's own team"? I will now refer to the example section. Why does it state that if player A from team Z fumbles and player B also from team Z recovers and returns it for a touchdown then it is considered an Offensive fumble recovery touchdown?I'm not assuming anything, or reading between the lines or interpreting what it says, I'm going by exactly what it states.

"This is the number of offensive fumble recoveries that are returned all the way for a TD. This ONLY includes fumbles that are recovered by a player's own team. For example, if

a Running Back fumbles at the 1 yard line right before scoring a TD, and then a Wide Receiver on the same team recovers the ball at the 1 yard line and advances to the

endzone for a TD, then it is considered an Offensive fumble recovery TD."

You're making this too hard...

 

[Routilla]

Plays like this are troublesome. We adjusted our league several years ago as a result. If you started Meachem then you get a TD for the distance of 44 yards. No rushing or receiving yards go with it however. The N.O. DEF/ST does not score any points as they were on the sidelines when the play started. I know many will argue that when possession changed then N.O. became the DEF and that is technically true. But in FF if you played the N.O. DEF/ST then you were playing the guys that were on the sidelines. It sucks equally for the WAS DEF/ST as they forced a turnover and then gave up the subsequent TD after the fumble. That's a +2 for the INT followed by a -6 due to the TD for anyone scoring at home, in my league of course.

 

[Mr. Retukes]

I need the scoring rules to match what MFL describes their function to be. If they meant it to cover any offensive player scoring a touchdown after a fumble, then change the entry which spells out it's funtion. Instead of saying that it ONLY includes fumbles that are recovered by a player's own team, say that it covers ALL fumble recoveries by an offensive player.

Dude, those two things mean exactly the same thing.

 

[home dog]

Lets say the Giants line up to punt the ball to the Cowboys. If Giants punt and Cowboys fumble the return and Giants punting unit scores it's a TD for Giants special teams and not the Giants offense because of the change of possession.

Now lets say the Giants line up to punt but they fake the punt, and the punter throws a TD pass. This would not be a special teams touchdown. It would be an offensive touchdown. Even though the special teams was on the field and not the offense. Why does it get credited to the offense? Because there was no change of possession.

FWIW- I don't have the Saints D. I'm playing against them and this decision will cost me. But unfortunately this TD counts for Saints D. It's bad luck for the rest of us. But it's a turnover. And not an offensive TD.

 

[Mr. Retukes]

Lets say the Giants line up to punt the ball to the Cowboys. If Giants punt and Cowboys fumble the return and Giants punting unit scores it's a TD for Giants special teams and not the Giants offense because of the change of possession. Now lets say the Giants line up to punt but they fake the punt, and the punter throws a TD pass. This would not be a special teams touchdown. It would be an offensive touchdown. Even though the special teams was on the field and not the offense. Why does it get credited to the offense? Because there was no change of possession.

A play becomes a "special teams play" the moment a ball is kicked. Simple as that. Change of possession has nothing to do with it.

 

[CalBear]

BTW the key is NOT the "change of possession" it is how each leagues individual rules are set up and specified to deal with a situation like this. Also if there is a contingency plan in place to deal with situations that arise that have not been taken into consideration...ie "we go by however CBSSports scores it."

My league has this clause ("we go by how CBS scores it"), but that doesn't change the fact that the way CBS is scoring it is stupid.NB: I own Meacham but didn't start him; the play could make a difference in the NO D owner's game, but that game probably won't have significant playoff implications.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

In my league, if the guy had fumbled and Meachem had fallen on the ball and recovered, it would have been credited to Saints D since Washington had a fumble lost (I believe the NFL will show a lost fumble for Washington). How can you lose a fumble if you didn't have possession of the ball? If wash can lose the ball, they had possession-- so there was a change of possession.

Using that logic, the play continued and a TD was scored-- If the Saints D would get credit for the Wash fumble (as in gaining fantasy points as a result) then they should get everything that happened on that play, like the TD. I'm pretty sure that's how it will go down in that league.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

[

My league has this clause ("we go by how CBS scores it"), but that doesn't change the fact that the way CBS is scoring it is stupid.

That's what we do, too. I know it's lazy, and I know this ruling is probably wrong, but everyone knows going in that's the way it is. Odd sidenote: the owner who has Meacham also has the NO D, so he would've gotten the 6 points in any case.

 

[fsufan]

commissioners

do yourself a favor and put a rule in place next year for TDs like this, if you do not have one already. you will save yourself a headache. I went thru this a few years back.

 

[TheNext0]

Yahoo has changed this to award the TD for NO D. Not sure if this will stick or if it will swing back into Meachem's favor at some point.

 

[flranger]

Instead of worrying about this type situation, just put in this rule:

Rule #1: Start of season, all teams must review the scoring rules and indicate any errors to the system setup prior to the first game. Once the first game starts you have accepted the rules as entered.

Rule #2: All fantasy point scoring situations will be handled based on however the system scores the play, after weekly automatic NFL stat change updates.

If anyone cries about anything unusual that comes up, just point to rule #1 and #2.

 

[Hoss_Cartwright]

[

My league has this clause ("we go by how CBS scores it"), but that doesn't change the fact that the way CBS is scoring it is stupid.

That's what we do, too. I know it's lazy, and I know this ruling is probably wrong, but everyone knows going in that's the way it is. Odd sidenote: the owner who has Meacham also has the NO D, so he would've gotten the 6 points in any case.

If the rules are set correctly he wouldn't have gotten anything. No 6 for NO D because it'ts stupid to award points to a fantasy defense that isn't even on the field, and no 6 points for Meachem because it wasn't a rushing, receiving, passing TD, unless your league has rules allowing points for an offensive recovery for a TD by WR/RB/QB/TE.

 

[Pnishthm]

There seem to be 2 key issues here... Whether Meachum should get points & whether the Saints D should get points.Meachum is simple. It wasn't a rushing TD, it wasn't a receiving TD. So it boils down to whether or not your specific league awards points for other types of TDs. The league I commish, players are awarded points for "any other TD." This is primarily kick & punt returns, but also applies here, so he got points. Another league I play in doesn't award "other TD" points, so he gets nothing.The issue with the Saints D boils down to the fact that sites like CBS are taking the NFL's rule (that once the ball is turned over the offense becomes defense) literally and applying it to fantasy football, when that shouldn't be the case. More intelligent sites like MFL & RTS aren't doing this because it's idiotic. The spirit of drafting a team defense (comprimised of defensive players) is so that you get points when that defense gets sacks, turnovers, etc. The Saints D wasn't even on the field & shouldn't get credit for doing anything.

This

 

[Refbuz]

The issue with the Saints D boils down to the fact that sites like CBS are taking the NFL's rule (that once the ball is turned over the offense becomes defense) literally and applying it to fantasy football, when that shouldn't be the case. More intelligent sites like MFL & RTS aren't doing this because it's idiotic. The spirit of drafting a team defense (comprimised of defensive players) is so that you get points when that defense gets sacks, turnovers, etc. The Saints D wasn't even on the field & shouldn't get credit for doing anything.

Then why am I getting credit for 3 fumble recoveries by the saints defense when 1 of the recoveries was obviously meachum's? Seems to me if your going to give credit for the fumble recovery, you should get credit for the resulting TD.

 

[Tau837]

The issue with the Saints D boils down to the fact that sites like CBS are taking the NFL's rule (that once the ball is turned over the offense becomes defense) literally and applying it to fantasy football, when that shouldn't be the case. More intelligent sites like MFL & RTS aren't doing this because it's idiotic. The spirit of drafting a team defense (comprimised of defensive players) is so that you get points when that defense gets sacks, turnovers, etc. The Saints D wasn't even on the field & shouldn't get credit for doing anything.

Then why am I getting credit for 3 fumble recoveries by the saints defense when 1 of the recoveries was obviously meachum's? Seems to me if your going to give credit for the fumble recovery, you should get credit for the resulting TD.

See post #129.