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Mendenhall (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter eefflrat
- Start date
thriftyrocker
Footballguy
This thread needs some sad tuba game show music.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
I think that's also the Cardinals' theme song.
Nucker101
Footballguy
1000+ yards is definitely possible if he's the workhorse RB, but I don't see 10+ TD's behind that O-line and in that offense, especially on a team that will likely be trailing in the second half of games against playoff teams. I do believe in his talent though.
Casting Couch
Footballguy
The sound you are hearing is the flushing of the remaining value of Rashard Mendenhall.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Putting the best possible spin on this...
It's possible Mendenhall had other offers, but didn't like them very much. And Arians provided him with a comfort level that he'd be the starter and have a chance to prove himself in 2013. So Mendenhall decided to take a one year 'show me' deal instead of signing a multi-year deal somewhere else for less than he thought he could get a year from now.
The Cards have a very good defense and should be in a lot of games. They won't need to throw 1000x.
They do have WRs on the outside that are good enough to demand attention. And even with a poor QB a lot of teams will double Fitzgerald.
He could still be a RB 20-25 guy -- basically a weak #2 or a strong #3.
And he's a UFA a year from now with a better market.
It's possible Mendenhall had other offers, but didn't like them very much. And Arians provided him with a comfort level that he'd be the starter and have a chance to prove himself in 2013. So Mendenhall decided to take a one year 'show me' deal instead of signing a multi-year deal somewhere else for less than he thought he could get a year from now.
The Cards have a very good defense and should be in a lot of games. They won't need to throw 1000x.
They do have WRs on the outside that are good enough to demand attention. And even with a poor QB a lot of teams will double Fitzgerald.
He could still be a RB 20-25 guy -- basically a weak #2 or a strong #3.
And he's a UFA a year from now with a better market.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
It's less than BJGE and Michael Bush. And for fewer years.
BJGE average per year wasn't much higher at $3M/per. Bush's contract was just dumb all around, and I'm not sure its worth using as comparison.Perhaps I'm wrong, but I think $2.5M for the year is a prove-it contract with the intention of Mendy being the starter.
Players generally have better years right before they become a free agent. Mendy will be the starter in AZ or he would've made more visits.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
Does anyone have an example of a past "prove it/show me" contract working out for an NFL RB? Every contract is a prove it/show me contract, as they're not guaranteed. Very especially for a RB. As I said a bit earlier, the money for an NFL RB is not in the yearly amount. Teams sign players to contracts all the time with little intention of paying the last year(s). It's the guaranteed money and Mendy isn't getting any significant amount. I really don't know how anyone can look at this as a positive. The best offer he could get - after talking to 5+ teams - is a 1 year commitment for less than starter money in a crumby situation, to a team that could have afforded to pay him more. That's a pretty clear indication that the NFL thinks less of him than the average dynasty owner.
thriftyrocker
Footballguy
Yeah, for normal people working 9 to 5 that is great money. It is what Pierre Thomas and Mike Tolbert will make this year. In the NFL it is backup RB money.
gianmarco
Footballguy
Concept Coop
Footballguy
I'm not following your logic here. You think this guy turned down more money/years because he felt his path to starting was most clear in Arizona?
Good point. I haven't personally said that Arizona was a positive, as there were several other teams that need a RB in better situations (Den, GB, ATL). I do, however, believe it was a better fantasy situation than Miami, despite that I'm probably in the minority with that opinion.
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
Crystal clear what the NFL thinks of him. And IMO he's utterly worthless fantasy-wise now. Bad line, bad team, bad everything. I'll be surprised if he cracks 1000 YFS next year.
squistion
Footballguy
And EBF
I'm getting a migraine, sorry for not being clear.IMO, Mendy knows the NFL doesn't think the world of him. He knows Arians, trust him, and was promised the starting gig in AZ. If he wasn't promised the starting gig, i'm sure he would've made more visits. Or else he could've talked to AZ and they offered him a timeshare. Mendy visits Denver timeshare, other places timeshare. Then he picks his best fit/money timeshare. It doesn't make sense for him to sign a low $$$ deal on day 2 of free agency to be in a timeshare.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
First bolded - I doubt it, no one in their right mind jsut takes a one year offer, especially at RB and guy who is still young. second bolded - how do you even know its going to be a better market? better market for what? RBs?
cstu
Footballguy
I think he got the feeling that there wasn't any more demand elsewhere and AZ presented the best opportunity to win the starting job.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
I don't think anyone promised him a starting job, including the Cardinals. If they thought enough of him to promise him a job, they'd think enough of him to pay him accordingly. I think he took the best offer he could get.
The Shocker
Footballguy
Kansas City ChiefsThe following season, Holmes signed an inexpensive contract with the Kansas City Chiefs. In his first season with the Chiefs, he went beyond expectations by becoming the NFL's leading rusher with 1,555 yards for 2001 NFL season becoming the only undrafted player to do so, until Arian Foster accomplished the feat during the 2010 NFL season.I could just think of one decent example to look up, off the top of my head. Not identical, but he did sign a "cheap" contract after being replaced in Baltimore. So there are some similarities. I think Mendenhall has a somewhat unique situation(versus many prove-it contracts), in that 1.) he has been productive in the past 2.) his year prior to FA was mostly lost to injury(in some form or another) 3.) he is being signed by a coach that knows him well and 4.) he is still really young, but fairly accomplished as a lead back in his career(2, nearly 3 1k yard seasons). The red flags are there for sure, we all know how bad ARI's line is. But, if you're Mendenhall, what do you choose? A.) A cheap, short-term contract that gives you the option to renegotiate after one year...when you're 27 and still have a few years of usefulness left or B.) A cheap, multi-year contract that would force you to renegotiate or hold out if you go bananas in 2013? Obviously the big, multi-year contract wasn't there...so I assume these were his two options. So I don't think a one-year deal is necessarily something that works against him in this instance.From what I can tell Priest signed a multi-year deal, but was fortunate enough to get it upped 2 years in after he blew it up on the field.
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BJGE signed a 3 year deal for 9 million with 4 million guaranteed, he's the starter(or at least was last year).Mendy signed a 1 year deal for 2.5 million(not sure on guaranteed, assume all of it) with 1 million more available in incentives.Doesn't look far off IMO.
Kitrick Taylor
Footballguy
I am positive of the bolded being true. The Packers and Falcons both need a RB badly. There's one quality player on the market in Steven Jackson, and he's likely to command 2-3x as much as Mendy. Let's just say it's pretty damning that neither of those clubs offered him a deal in excess of 2.5 million.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
Best case scenario, it's 40% less than one of the lesser paid starting RBs not on a rookie deal.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
I agree with your agreement....
thriftyrocker
Footballguy
Shonn Greene just got $10/3 to be a backup in TEN
Wow perhaps i'm wrong then. How did Greene get that much, ugh
TheFanatic
Footballguy
That's exactly what I was thinking. He either proves he can play and gets an extension or he doesn't and he doesn't...
If I go delete my earlier comments regarding Mendenhall's salary, can everyone else delete their replies to me?
thriftyrocker
Footballguy
4.5m guaranteed. LOL.
FA deals with Erik Walden 4 yr/12mill
Kenny Powers
Footballguy
I was going to ask how you came up with such an arbitrary number like 170, but it wasnt hard to figure out since he had 167 last year and 5 years ago had 170. Talk about hand picking numbers to fit your argumentMcGahee wil be 32 in October. He has had less than 170 carries four out the last five years. Rams have no RB's and I'd rather they take a guy in the 5th or 6th than pay a guy that old that anything.I hope he goes to DEN so the Steelers can sign McGahee
Not to mention, 5 years ago he was in a RBBC with Rice, and the next 2 years he was clearly his backup. Also, if Im signing a 31 year old RB, I think Id prefer his use for 4 of the last 5 years hasnt worn him down. His YPC average over the last 5 years is 4.4. He didnt look like he lost a step before getting injured last year, and I think that is actually the only injury he has had over the 5 years.Most importantly, a soon to be 32 McGahee is still light years better than what PIT currently has on the roster.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Assuming the incentives in Mendenhall's contract are easily obtainable he's making $3.5 MM this year. Shonn Green is making slightly less this season, about $3.3 MM. Reggie Bush is making $4 MM this season. From what I read the Packers are looking to pay Steven Jackson about $4 MM per year.Maybe the runningback market in general is down with all the FAs available and some decent depth in the upcoming draft.If I go delete my earlier comments regarding Mendenhall's salary, can everyone else delete their replies to me?
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
McGahee, Wells, Blount, Bradshaw, Felix Jones, hell anyone -- whoever is OK with close to the veteran minimum and a chance to play in the playoffs step on up!
Realistically, if the line can stay healthy / gel / young guys develop then the ground game will be OK with whoever. If not, then it won't matter much anyway.
Realistically, if the line can stay healthy / gel / young guys develop then the ground game will be OK with whoever. If not, then it won't matter much anyway.
EBF
Footballguy
Thomas Jones was traded to Tampa after three mediocre years in Arizona.Signed with the Bears the next year and had five straight 1000+ yard rushing seasons from 2005-2009.
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
Those incentives better be REALLY easily obtainable -- AZ rushing attack has been beyond terrible for a loooooong time.Assuming the incentives in Mendenhall's contract are easily obtainable he's making $3.5 MM this year. Shonn Green is making slightly less this season, about $3.3 MM. ReggieBush is making $4 MM this season. From what I read the Packers are looking to pay Steven Jackson about $4 MM per year.Maybe the runningback market in general is down with all the FAs available and some decent depth in the upcoming draft.If I go delete my earlier comments regarding Mendenhall's salary, can everyone else delete their replies to me?
Concept Coop
Footballguy
That's not really what I was asking. I know players can turn their careers around. Has a player even left money/years on the table in order to test free agency the following year? It happens in the NBA, but I can't think of an example in the NFL.
gianmarco
Footballguy
Concept Coop
Footballguy
Shonn Green is guaranteed $4 Million. That's the important total.
thriftyrocker
Footballguy
The Jones deal with Chicago was 4 years/9.25m. He averaged 4.6 ypc in TB. Not really a show-me deal at all.Re: Priest Holmes, his 2001 deal was for 5 years. Was a simpler time back then though.
Inspiration
Footballguy
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Cedric Benson yet. He seems like the obvious comparable to Mendenhall in a number of ways. 1 year, $520,000 deal with Cincinnati after a disappointing first 3 years with Chicago.
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
I would say that was his value. Not a "show me" deal.
Inspiration
Footballguy
That's probably true. Mendenhall had more success than Benson did with his first team. Benson didn't even get a contract offer with the Bengals until after the season started (Although he turned it into a 2 year, $7 million deal the next offseason).I just found it interesting that they have nearly identical running styles (both are/were criticized for not running physical enough for backs of their size), similar talent level (capable starter but not elite), and both were considered to be "malcontents" in with tier first team. What does it mean? Probably nothing, but a fun comparison nonetheless.'BigSteelThrill said:
EBF
Footballguy
He didn't exactly have a ton of leverage after the way the last two seasons went for him. Torn ACL in 2011. Didn't play much in 2012 and pouted when he wasn't the starter. Didn't make himself a lot of fans during that time period. On the other hand, it absolutely won't matter if he steps up to the plate and performs.
If you look at the guys I've been comparing him to (Benson, T Jones, Lynch), one thing they all have in common is that their second team didn't pay much to get them. Lynch was had for a 4th and a 5th round pick. Nobody looked at that price tag and assumed he was going to be their featured guy for the next 3-5 years.
Bottom line is that Mendenhall goes to a team with no clear starter and plenty of short term opportunity. If he beats out Ryan Williams and stays healthy, RB2 numbers are a near certainty. I would've liked him in Denver because I think he would've been a top 10 FF back there, but at the end of the day nobody who owns him should be expecting anything more than what he's prime to potentially yield.
If you look at the guys I've been comparing him to (Benson, T Jones, Lynch), one thing they all have in common is that their second team didn't pay much to get them. Lynch was had for a 4th and a 5th round pick. Nobody looked at that price tag and assumed he was going to be their featured guy for the next 3-5 years.
Bottom line is that Mendenhall goes to a team with no clear starter and plenty of short term opportunity. If he beats out Ryan Williams and stays healthy, RB2 numbers are a near certainty. I would've liked him in Denver because I think he would've been a top 10 FF back there, but at the end of the day nobody who owns him should be expecting anything more than what he's prime to potentially yield.
gianmarco
Footballguy
So which is it? This or excuses on why he had no leverage?
