Merged Spygate thread (1 Viewer)

[Dr. Octopus]

So sure, there was 8 minutes of footage of players standing on the sideline. 

Steve Young said he was extremely disappointed to see the Pats pulling this again because he has so much respect for them and that anyone that says there’s no probative value to watching that tape doesn’t know football.

 

[NotSmart]

I respect him as a genius coach and GM, but don't like him because of him cheating.  

As to the bolded I had no idea about the shoe boxes sent to a married woman nor his dating life. That didn't take part in my decision at all.

Also, I could care less that he quit the Jets job, my decision to not like him stems only from multiple cheating allegations.  

Ditto and ditto, the cheating is really why I dislike him and the Patriots.

Just imagine if their amazing accomplishments hadn't been tainted. 

 

[Anarchy99]

Steve Young said he was extremely disappointed to see the Pats pulling this again because he has so much respect for them and that anyone that says there’s no probative value to watching that tape doesn’t know football.

And plenty of other former coaches said it was worthless. 

 

[Dr. Octopus]

And plenty of other former coaches said it was worthless. 

Sure

 

[JAA]

Your position is classical historical revisionism.

Prior to Goodell issuing the memorandum which explicitely prohibited sideline filming, it was common knowledge that this was a means of gathering competitive intelligence that was practiced by multiple teams.  One of the points made during this period was, I believe by Bill Parcells, that such information gathering is why a majority of teams changed their play calling signals on a regular basis and it was therefore shocking that certain stubborn teams would not change their signals, thus creating a potential competitive advantage that the Patriots and other teams would gleefully exploit (hence the commissioner's memorandum, which was sent to 32 teams not to 1 team).  

Why do you think there was famous footage of Herm Edwards looking directly into the Patriots camera?  The answer is because it was common knowledge that this was happening.

Steve Marriuci tells the story of Lions staff picking through the garbage of visiting coaching staff looking for playbook and playcalling information.

It is ridiculous on its face to single out the Patriots as one evil entity contrasted by 31 other teams with pristine records of never attempting to obtain competitive advantage.

Belichick's real error here in incorrectly reading the tea leaves and failing to anticipate that the league had made up its mind that enforcement of the new guidance would be swift and harsh.  

There are basically two reasons why Belichick has been vilified, those being unprecedented success and presenting a non-sympathetic character.  People don't like the man because he sent a married woman shoe boxes full of cash and he quit the Jets job when it became apparent that he was being installed as a puppet.  Unfortunately, some people are just fundamentally dishonest, and rather than saying "you know what, I just don't like the guy" they say "he's a cheater and the only reason they've ever done anything is because of cheating and they get an asterisk and blah blah blah".  It's horse hockey.

Cue the response of "we'll never know because the league destroyed the tapes".  Whatever dude.  We know what we know, Belichick got made an example of, and the tempest in a teapot becomes the foundation for fragile rhetoric from whiners who don't like the man.  So much so that thinly veiled counter-attacks from jealous owners ("deflategate", "spygate 2.0") become added to the "foundation" of the "cheater" label.  It's pitiful.  To be the man, you have to beat the man.

Why did the league destroy the tapes?

If it was so prevalent, why didnt anyone else get caught?

 

[JAA]

Huge Pats hater here ...

Im OK with sweeping it under the rug if the entire set of Bengals footage is released.  Release the whole damn thing and lets be done with it.

If the footage isnt released, like with the first Spygate, I stand by my statement that Ernie Adams should be banned from any football a la MLB Pete Rose.

PS - for those who dont know the history of BB and Ernie - here is a link:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernie_Adams_(American_football)

PSS - Next, get this book and read it:  https://www.amazon.com/Belichick-Football-Scouting-Methods-Paperback/dp/B004WJ6GLW  When you get the book, tell me what the entire first chapter is about.  Specifically, according to Steve Belichick, what will be revolutionizing the game football?  Again, why did Ernie Adams and Bill Belichick become friends?

PSSS - Oh yea, I almost forgot - check out this Kraft Sports Productions job listing: https://www.facebook.com/KraftGroupJobs/posts/kraft-sports-productions-is-hiring-an-event-presentation-supervisor-this-person-/1710304695668464/ See anything funny in the job listing?  Maybe this line:  "Specifically the pair would be responsible for all in-game entertainment, performances, video, music and the emotional journey of the event attendees, all while trying to obtain any advantage possible for our teams."

 

[Doug B]

PSSS - Oh yea, I almost forgot - check out this Kraft Sports Productions job listing: https://www.facebook.com/KraftGroupJobs/posts/kraft-sports-productions-is-hiring-an-event-presentation-supervisor-this-person-/1710304695668464/ See anything funny in the job listing?  Maybe this line:  "Specifically the pair would be responsible for all in-game entertainment, performances, video, music and the emotional journey of the event attendees, all while trying to obtain any advantage possible for our teams."

What? The bolded is malarkey -- Kraft Sports Productions is wholly separate from the football operations. Wholly separate.

...

If Robert Kraft owns a shashlik bodega in Usbekistan, and the dude working that bodega does nothing but grill and sell meat all day half a planet away ... that bodega dude is still affiliated with the Patriots. I exaggerate but little.

 

[JAA]

What? The bolded is malarkey -- Kraft Sports Productions is wholly separate from the football operations. Wholly separate.

...

If Robert Kraft owns a shashlik bodega in Usbekistan, and the dude working that bodega does nothing but grill and sell meat all day half a planet away ... that bodega dude is still affiliated with the Patriots. I exaggerate but little.

Im still surprised the listing is up there.  Pretty incriminating IMHO

 

[need2know]

Patriots suck

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I think they should be required to forfeit all they playoff wins this season.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

I think they should be required to forfeit all they playoff wins this season.

agreed.

 

[DropKick]

Im still surprised the listing is up there.  Pretty incriminating IMHO

I hope this is schtick.

 

[Chaz McNulty]

It looks like the NFL could learn a thing or two from the MLB in how to deal with cheaters.  If you want the guilty party to stop, you need to hand down a just punishment.

I applaud the MLB.

 

[tjnc09]

It looks like the NFL could learn a thing or two from the MLB in how to deal with cheaters.  If you want the guilty party to stop, you need to hand down a just punishment.

I applaud the MLB.

the MLB embarrassed themselves with such a light penalty

 

[Chaz McNulty]

the MLB embarrassed themselves with such a light penalty

If the MLB's penalty was light, would would you call the NFL's penalty for Spygate?

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

I think MLB should revoke the Patriots charter and refuse to allow them to participate in baseball.

 

[tjnc09]

If the MLB's penalty was light, would would you call the NFL's penalty for Spygate?

The Astros cheated during the World Series.  

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

The Astros cheated during the World Series.  

So when no one was watching.

 

[Chaz McNulty]

The Astros cheated during the World Series.  

And you think the Patriots shut down their spygate operation during any of the Superbowls?

 

[FreeBaGeL]

The Astros cheated during the World Series.  

Did they?  I'm not disputing it, but I've been trying to figure out just how often and when the sign stealing and trashcan relaying actually happened.  All I can find in articles is that it was used in the 2017 season.  I couldn't find details about how often they were doing it (every pitch?  just important ones?) or when.

 

[Godsbrother]

If the MLB's penalty was light, would would you call the NFL's penalty for Spygate?

The Patriots have a record of cheating for 20 years and the NFL continues to slap their hand. 
 

If they want to fix the problem they need to suspend BB, then maybe the Pats will get the message 

 

[JAA]

I hope this is schtick.

Unpack this for me

 

[JamieMurphy]

The Astros cheated during the World Series.  

The Eagles in 2005 always suspected something was up in the second half of the SB. Pats players just instinctively seemed to know when the defense would be blitzing.

https://www.inquirer.com/philly/sports/eagles/patriots-cheat-spygate-eagles-super-bowl-steve-spagnuolo-20180129.html

Yeah, it was instinct...they're cheaters, plain and simple. Change their name to the NE Asterisks and move on.

 

[JAA]

The Eagles in 2005 always suspected something was up in the second half of the SB. Pats players just instinctively seemed to know when the defense would be blitzing.

https://www.inquirer.com/philly/sports/eagles/patriots-cheat-spygate-eagles-super-bowl-steve-spagnuolo-20180129.html

Yeah, it was instinct...they're cheaters, plain and simple. Change their name to the NE Asterisks and move on.

Good article

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

The Eagles in 2005 always suspected something was up in the second half of the SB. Pats players just instinctively seemed to know when the defense would be blitzing.

https://www.inquirer.com/philly/sports/eagles/patriots-cheat-spygate-eagles-super-bowl-steve-spagnuolo-20180129.html

Yeah, it was instinct...they're cheaters, plain and simple. Change their name to the NE Asterisks and move on.

Hahahaaaaa......

"We believe that Tom [Brady] knew when we were pressuring him because he certainly got the ball out pretty quick."

Well there u go, with rock solid Marty Hurney type iron clad evidence like that.....Bawwwhaaaw

Whiney tools..........

 

[Tool]

Good article

Why? Because it supports your view?

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

The Patriots have a record of cheating for 20 years and the NFL continues to slap their hand. 
 

If they want to fix the problem they need to suspend BB, then maybe the Pats will get the message 

BB should totally of been suspended, I mean Payton got a whole season off...….

 

[JamieMurphy]

Hahahaaaaa......

"We believe that Tom [Brady] knew when we were pressuring him because he certainly got the ball out pretty quick."

Well there u go, with rock solid Marty Hurney type iron clad evidence like that.....Bawwwhaaaw

Whiney tools..........

Why do NE apologists and defenders ignore the evidence that they have been caught cheating time and time again?

Name calling won't change that fact.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

While the cheating, and the hubris of repeating it in the face of their history of getting caught fascinates me, I am more fascinated with Robert Kraft's plans for the Super Bowl.  Where will he be partying?  Any chance he parties with Gronk before hitting a day spa?

 

[DocHolliday]

While the cheating, and the hubris of repeating it in the face of their history of getting caught fascinates me, I am more fascinated with Robert Kraft's plans for the Super Bowl.  Where will he be partying?  Any chance he parties with Gronk before hitting a day spa?

Probably going to invite Goodell no matter where he ends up.   

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Should have given Kraft a cameo in the movie Dirty Grandpa.

 

[JAA]

Why? Because it supports your view?

Cause it quotes NFL coaches/players opinions

 

[Tool]

Cause it quotes NFL coaches/players opinions

And there won’t be any bias to those

 

[JAA]

And there won’t be any bias to those

I hope you realize your comment makes absolutely no sense.

How is it possible for any participants /not/ have bias on either side of this issue?  The point is that the people were willing to go on the record with their opinions.  You realize how rare that is right?

 

[kyoun1e]

The Astros debacle makes spygate look silly by comparison.

And makes anyone making a big deal out of deflategate an irrational fool.

I pity the soul who is actually a LA Dodgers fan...and also someone who keeps griping about this gate crap.

 

[Doug B]

Should have given Kraft a cameo in the movie Dirty Grandpa.

Little-known fact: A young Bill Belichick was a consultant on “Revenge of the Nerds” (1983).

 

[JohnnyU]

The Astros debacle makes spygate look silly by comparison.

And makes anyone making a big deal out of deflategate an irrational fool.

I pity the soul who is actually a LA Dodgers fan...and also someone who keeps griping about this gate crap.

What does one have to do with the other?  Two wrongs don't make a right. 

 

[Doug B]

What does one have to do with the other?  Two wrongs don't make a right. 

It’s a subset of the “everybody cheats” thing.

 

[JohnnyU]

It’s a subset of the “everybody cheats” thing.

That's lame isn't it?

 

[Chaz McNulty]

The Astros debacle makes spygate look silly by comparison.

And makes anyone making a big deal out of deflategate an irrational fool.

I pity the soul who is actually a LA Dodgers fan...and also someone who keeps griping about this gate crap.

I don't think people are comparing deflategate.  I think the similarities are with Spygate 1. Using technology to know what the pitch is ahead of time or to know what the playcall is ahead of time.  And adjust accordingly.  Do you think BB is a genius for calling the perfect offense or defense for most of the plays the opponent was running.  I think his genius was in his preparation which included going over the line.

I think the punishment for deflategate was because the NFL screwed up badly with the slap on the wrist for Spygate.

 

[JAA]

I don't think people are comparing deflategate.  I think the similarities are with Spygate 1. Using technology to know what the pitch is ahead of time or to know what the playcall is ahead of time.  And adjust accordingly.  Do you think BB is a genius for calling the perfect offense or defense for most of the plays the opponent was running.  I think his genius was in his preparation which included going over the line.

I think the punishment for deflategate was because the NFL screwed up badly with the slap on the wrist for Spygate.

Deflate gate was a joke. Shame it even happened. No one really cared until Brady covered it up. He should have just admitted to it and paid the fine which was already in the rules. 

 

[Leroy Hoard]

  Two wrongs don't make a right. 

2 wrongs don't make a right, but three rights make a left.

 

[Doug B]

Should have given Kraft a cameo in the movie Dirty Grandpa.

Little-known fact: A young Bill Belichick was a consultant on “Revenge of the Nerds” (1983).

Belichick told director Jeff Kanew that the Icy-Hot scheme was something he tried to pull on the St. Louis Cardinals in Giants Stadium in 1981. Belichick bought several bottles of liniment at the East Rutherford Walgreens the night before the game and had planned to soak the Cardinals' jock straps the next morning. The Cardinals' equipment manager came in early and ran off a hooded Belichick.

Later during production, Belichick made it a point to compliment screenwriter Jeff Buhai about the ingenuity of the "video surveillance" scenes in the Pi Beta Pi house.

 

[DocHolliday]

Belichick told director Jeff Kanew that the Icy-Hot scheme was something he tried to pull on the St. Louis Cardinals in Giants Stadium in 1981. Belichick bought several bottles of liniment at the East Rutherford Walgreens the night before the game and had planned to soak the Cardinals' jock straps the next morning. The Cardinals' equipment manager came in early and ran off a hooded Belichick.

Later during production, Belichick made it a point to compliment screenwriter Jeff Buhai about the ingenuity of the "video surveillance" scenes in the Pi Beta Pi house.

Well done.  

 

[JAA]

Has there been any news on what the leagues final decision will be?

 

[Godsbrother]

Has there been any news on what the leagues final decision will be?

I am guessing whatever they decide will happen after the Super Bowl.  They don't want any negative news to get in the way of that.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

I am guessing whatever they decide will happen after the Super Bowl.  They don't want any negative news to get in the way of that.

I'm guessing the Patriots are well informed of the progress of the investigation and the decisions being made through their spy cameras in the league office planted by the Kraft Services cleaning crew who cleans the league offices.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

I'm guessing the Patriots are well informed of the progress of the investigation and the decisions being made through their spy cameras in the league office planted by the Kraft Services cleaning crew who cleans the league offices.

We didn't have to install spy cameras.  Roger gave us a direct feed into their security network.  Because he's, you know, in our pocket.

 

[Chaz McNulty]

I'm guessing the Patriots are well informed of the progress of the investigation and the decisions being made through their spy cameras in the league office planted by the Kraft Services cleaning crew who cleans the league offices.

But keep in mind that they are completely separated form the football operations.

 

[JAA]

Any guesses why the NFL has not made an official ruling on this?  I would have just about guaranteed to have a ruling before the NFL draft