Minnesota Vikings Team Thread (7 Viewers)

[Biabreakable]

It isnt size that makes a offensive lineman capable of anchoring against the pass rush. Its strength and skill.

Plenty of smaller centers are able to anchor and hold their own against strong defensive tackles.

Bradbury has not been able to do that. Maybe Linderbaum can maybe he cant I dont know.

If he cant then of course I dont want him to be drafted by the Vikings but if the scouts think he can then he would be a good option for them.

 

[BigJim®]

It isnt size that makes a offensive lineman capable of anchoring against the pass rush. Its strength and skill.

Plenty of smaller centers are able to anchor and hold their own against strong defensive tackles.

Bradbury has not been able to do that. Maybe Linderbaum can maybe he cant I dont know.

If he cant then of course I dont want him to be drafted by the Vikings but if the scouts think he can then he would be a good option for them.

Right, except the profile I posted for Linderbaum suggests he's not what you described. No idea if it was accurate, I tend to assume it is accurate if the guy is smaller/agile.

 

[Biabreakable]

Right, except the profile I posted for Linderbaum suggests he's not what you described. No idea if it was accurate, I tend to assume it is accurate if the guy is smaller/agile.

Randall McDaniel was smaller/agile and never gave up ground.

I think making that assumption is wrong.

Now maybe this is the case with Linderbaum but if it is it's not because of his weight or agility.

 

[BigJim®]

Randall McDaniel was smaller/agile and never gave up ground.

I think making that assumption is wrong.

Now maybe this is the case with Linderbaum but if it is it's not because of his weight or agility.

Ok Bia. I will not assume USA Today guru is correct in his assessment because ... Randall McDaniel.

 

[SayWhat?]

Boy, not sure I like that deal.  

 

[Bracie Smathers]

you just hired a very-good GM in Kwesi

What did I tell ya?

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Dawgs By Nature@DawgsByNature

Kwesi makes a nice move here to load up on earlish picks in a trade down.

 

[skol asylum]

I hate that trade for Minnesota. For a drop that far they should have gotten a first next year. Uggh.

 

[SayWhat?]

Horrible trade, value was poor, and you made that deal with a division rival?!  Frustrating.

 

[Gally]

What was the trade?

 

[Heatman]

That trade was insanely bad. Wow just wow

 

[SayWhat?]

What was the trade?

The Vikings trade: Pick 12, pick 46

The Lions trade: Pick 32, 34, 66
 

So, down 20 in the 1st, up 12 in the 2nd, and only added a 3rd.  

 

[Heatman]

New GM is obviously clueless. Didn't think it possible but the Vikings not only got worse but massively so.

I'll bet KAMs phone uis ringing off the hook with offers after that fleecing.

 

[BigJim®]

Ouch, that trade. -14% value if I calculated right. 

 

[Gally]

The Vikings trade: Pick 12, pick 46

The Lions trade: Pick 32, 34, 66
 

So, down 20 in the 1st, up 12 in the 2nd, and only added a 3rd.  

Why give up the 46th?  It wouldn't be so bad if they didn't give that up too.

In concept I don't mind the trade back for 32 and 34 but why give up the 46th?

 

[SayWhat?]

Why give up the 46th?  It wouldn't be so bad if they didn't give that up too.

In concept I don't mind the trade back for 32 and 34 but why give up the 46th?

Exactly.  I can see the rationale to 12 for 32/34.  Possibly.  But adding 46 for 66?

####’n gross.

 

[Norseman]

I hate that trade for Minnesota. For a drop that far they should have gotten a first next year. Uggh.

That’s exactly what I was thinking 

 

[Gopher State]

That trade was insanely bad. Wow just wow

X2

 

[Gally]

Jeesh.....all these other pick swap moves and the teams moving back never have to give up another pick.  Ugh

 

[Biabreakable]

Boy, not sure I like that deal.  

Most of the trades seem a bit light in terms of what we might expect historically.

I think this tells us that this draft has a lot of players who may be similarly valued and moves are being made with salary in mind, which may be part of why the Vikings made the deal they did.

The run on WR does seem to point towards that as well I think.

There were a couple very good players available if the Vikings had stayed at 12.

 

[Biabreakable]

Ok Bia. I will not assume USA Today guru is correct in his assessment because ... Randall McDaniel.

Your retort shows me that your not listening so I wont bother trying to explain further if that's all you hear.

 

[Donnybrook]

Vikings could be sitting at 32 with Malik Willis on the board?  Not saying Vikings should take him but you gotta think that a trade should happen.  

 

[SayWhat?]

Vikings could be sitting at 32 with Malik Willis on the board?  Not saying Vikings should take him but you gotta think that a trade should happen.  

If he’s there, I’d love the pick.  Or trade it for a pretty penny to a team that wants that 5th year option.  

 

[Donnybrook]

Booth, Daxon Hill?

 

[SayWhat?]

Booth, Daxon Hill?

Seems like Booth makes a ton of sense.  

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Kwesi came away with a solid player and the Vikes are positioned well for tomorrow.

Lots of talent available.

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Chad Graff@ChadGraff

The Vikings have the second pick of Day 2, so they'll get to work early tomorrow. But they wrap up Day 1 with safety Lewis Cine after moving back from No. 12. They have three of the first 45 picks tomorrow.

 

[Gally]

Kwesi came away with a solid player and the Vikes are positioned well for tomorrow.

Lots of talent available.

------------------------------------

Chad Graff@ChadGraff

The Vikings have the second pick of Day 2, so they'll get to work early tomorrow. But they wrap up Day 1 with safety Lewis Cine after moving back from No. 12. They have three of the first 45 picks tomorrow.

I like the pick

 

[SayWhat?]

Kwesi came away with a solid player and the Vikes are positioned well for tomorrow.

Lots of talent available.

------------------------------------

Chad Graff@ChadGraff

The Vikings have the second pick of Day 2, so they'll get to work early tomorrow. But they wrap up Day 1 with safety Lewis Cine after moving back from No. 12. They have three of the first 45 picks tomorrow.

Blah.  The second and third of those are in the 3rd round, where we are (by pure historical odds) unlikely to strike gold. 

I’m really sick of this team passing on potential elite talent to trade down and accumulate relatively worthless picks.  

 

[Gally]

Blah.  The second and third of those are in the 3rd round, where we are (by pure historical odds) unlikely to strike gold. 

I’m really sick of this team passing on potential elite talent to trade down and accumulate relatively worthless picks.  

I don't mind the trade back because I didn’t like any positions of need as they would have been reaches.  I just didn't like including pick 46 too.  Take that away and I like the move. 

 

[Gally]

I’m really sick of this team passing on potential elite talent to trade down and accumulate relatively worthless picks.  

Who was a potential elite talent you take there?  Hamilton would have been the only thought for me and I like Cine almost as much

 

[Zow]

Vikings could be sitting at 32 with Malik Willis on the board?  Not saying Vikings should take him but you gotta think that a trade should happen.  

Yep. And we didn't even wait a few minutes to see if there would be any good offers. 

I like Cine at 32. No issues with the pick. Just a complete disregard though for maximizing value by making a bad trade then not even trying to posture on the clock at 32. 

 

[Zow]

Who was a potential elite talent you take there?  Hamilton would have been the only thought for me and I like Cine almost as much

Agreed. Hamilton or Williams there. I like Cine just fine. But this draft just sorta feels like going out on a date with an attractive and willing girl and only stopping at second base after hitting one to the gap and getting an outfielder to fall down. 

 

[Zow]

I don't mind the trade back because I didn’t like any positions of need as they would have been reaches.  I just didn't like including pick 46 too.  Take that away and I like the move. 

Agreed. But we included pick 46. So dumb. 

 

[Zow]

If he’s there, I’d love the pick.  Or trade it for a pretty penny to a team that wants that 5th year option.  

 

Yet we didn't even try...

 

[Donnybrook]

Tell me what Hamilton can do better than Cine?  

 

[Gally]

Agreed. But we included pick 46. So dumb. 

I just want someone to ask the GM the question.

 

[SayWhat?]

As far as impact and maximizing the remote possibility of a Vikings Super Bowl at some point in time, I 100% of the time take Jameson Williams at 12 and still have pick 46 rather than Cine at 32 with 34 and 66.  

 

[Zow]

As far as impact and maximizing the remote possibility of a Vikings Super Bowl at some point in time, I 100% of the time take Jameson Williams at 12 and still have pick 46 rather than Cine at 32 with 34 and 66.  

I'd have been happy with Williams or Hamilton there. But, reality is that no player "fell" to that spot that we absolutely needed to grab so I have no problem trading out of the spot for a good offer. 

12 for Cine, 34, and 66 I'm good with. 12 and 46 was just not maximizing value there. 

 

[sports_fan]

Is there any way to justify that trade at all? It looked bad at the surface, then you start looking into pick value and it still looks bad, there were seemingly good options available at positions of need if they held onto it, trade was to a division opponent. It’s like so bad, I feel like I’m missing something.

 

[Zow]

Is there any way to justify that trade at all? It looked bad at the surface, then you start looking into pick value and it still looks bad, there were seemingly good options available at positions of need if they held onto it, trade was to a division opponent. It’s like so bad, I feel like I’m missing something.

If there is, I'm not smart enough to argue it. 

I really do want to give the benefit of the doubt to the GM here. He's the expert - not us. And in many fields the experts are wrongly questioned by non-experts all the time. But, while I hope that's the case here, I'd still really like to hear the explanation. 

 

[Cjw_55106]

Tell me what Hamilton can do better than Cine?  

The reality is, 90% of fans didnt know either guy 2 months ago. No idea if its true, but the Vikings claim to have Cine between 13-19 on their board. People get so worked up over things they know little about. 

I would imagine if the Vikings could have gotten a better deal, they would have. Its not as if they were talking exclusively to Detroit. Reports before the draft indicated everyone wanted to trade down. That changes the market. 

 

[Biabreakable]

I heard that pff trade chart somehow has the Vikings getting value on the trade.

I haven't seen that chart.

Using the JJ or Chase Stewart's trade value chart they lost value on the deal.

This is supposedly Kwesi area of expertise, analitics.. doesnt seem to be the case after looking at it from a pure value evaluation that it was a good deal.

 

[FunkyPlutos]

I heard that pff trade chart somehow has the Vikings getting value on the trade.

I haven't seen that chart.

Using the JJ or Chase Stewart's trade value chart they lost value on the deal.

This is supposedly Kwesi area of expertise, analitics.. doesnt seem to be the case after looking at it from a pure value evaluation that it was a good deal.

Those charts are a guideline...This draft was not top heavy - questions about anything after top 2 picks...so I think it is tough to use them to grade it. If they had 10 guys they really liked and had a bunch grouped after that, then getting an extra top 75 pick is good value. I wasn't thrilled but if it allows them to get a guard that they wouldn't have gotten otherwise, then good for them!!

I really would like to get Booth!

 

[Donnybrook]

I agree that the Viking traded down on the cheap wasn’t ideal but I’m less sure that adding offence at 12 was the right thing to do.  People like Judd that have been championing a WR there and he is doing on the assumption that Vikings will simply beat teams in a track meet.  However, I don’t recall many super bowl teams built that way.  Vikings still need to get other teams offence off the field.  Is Harrison Philips enough to stop the run?  I think he is the key to success next year.   Rams had a perennial all pro with Aaron Donald. and he proved his worth in the playoffs.  

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Moving to a 3-4, they probably need a few LBs. Nakobe Dean is an obvious choice. They could double up on CBs and take Jalen Pitre.

 

[Donnybrook]

Booth seems like the logical pick but I am intrigued by the athletic freaks like Boye Mafe and David Ojobo.  

 

[encaitar]

Vikings need a lot of help on defense, especially since they're gonna be switching styles.  More early picks helps that and I'm sure that was the idea.

Problem is that they got fleeced on the trade IMO.  When it was announced I thought for sure they had gotten Detroit's 2023 1st and was very excited about it thinking there's a decent chance it would be a top 10 pick, then when the compensation was announced it deflated my spirits.  That probably is my fault for having unrealistic expectations, but I can't ever remember a team moving that far back in the 1st before without picking up a future 1st.  As others have said, I'd have liked the trade if the 46 wasn't thrown in there.

As for the player?  I like Cine.  A lot.  In my "dream scenarios" leading up to last night I was hoping Stingley would fall to them(obviously a pipe dream) and that Cine would fall to the early second and the Vikes would move up to grab him.  Hamilton was better in college, but Cine is much more athletic and has a higher NFL ceiling IMO.  If we evaluate the pick outside of the trade, it's a great pick.  

 

[Donnybrook]

Danny Gray is my favourite sleeper in the draft.  I have to get that out before he gets taken today or tomorrow.  I hope the Vikings get him.

 

[travdogg]

Tell me what Hamilton can do better than Cine?  

More versatility and more oomph in the box. Also makes some plays on the ball that only a 6-4 guy can make.  That's not to take anything away from Cine, who was a very good value at #32. 

Ultimately, we'll see what happens at #34, and in round 3 to see if taking a downgrade at S was worth it or not.

Nakobe Dean is my hope at #34. 

 

[Golden Gopher]

Ugh.  At first glance, the trade looked horrible.  Basically trading down 20 spots in the 1st to move up 12 in the 2nd makes no sense.  You do that to add a 2nd rounder, not a 3rd.  As it is, it screams of "desperate to move down," when one would think it would be the other way around.  

But, the more I read about it, the more it just seems like a buyers market, which is unusual.  Meaning, normally, the team(s) wanting to move up have to pay a premium price to do so.  This year (or at least in the spot MIN was at), it was the opposite... More teams wanting to move down than up, so that premium for selling the higher pick isn't there.  

It still feels like they should have gotten more.  On the other hand, if they got a similar player at 32 to what they would have gotten at 12 (which, yeah, seems hard to believe), I guess it could turn out in their favor.  Tonight should tell us a lot.... If they add an additional immediate impact player, maybe I'll feel better about it all.  

 

[BigJim®]

But, the more I read about it, the more it just seems like a buyers market, which is unusual.  Meaning, normally, the team(s) wanting to move up have to pay a premium price to do so.  This year (or at least in the spot MIN was at), it was the opposite... More teams wanting to move down than up, so that premium for selling the higher pick isn't there. 

Yeah, other than the frustrating value Washington got for 11, it doesn't seem like teams got significant premium. Still, it is hard to defend that standard calculators gave the Vikes -14% value trading out of 12, while:

* Washington got +3% value trading 11 back to 16/3rd/4th 

* Houston got <> +1% trading from 13 to 15/124/162/166

* New England got +2% trading from 21 to 29/94/121

* Baltimore got +0-1% value trading from 23 to 25/130. 

If the team was willing to move all the way to 32, multiple trade backs at nominal + value would have made more sense as a game plan than taking a bath on a single drop.