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Missing Cleveland teens found Alive 10 years after being abducted! (1 Viewer)

Zow said:
Henry Ford said:
Zow said:
Henry Ford said:
Zow said:
Henry Ford said:
Zow said:
Henry Ford said:
Quick fun test - everyone, without looking, tell me your neighbor's address directly north of you.
Click to expand...
What am I missing here? I posted the link where the report states that the police went out to the address once in 2004. Again, if there's documented other incidents (and not just the claim of some neighbors) I stand corrected.
Click to expand...
You're missing the part where you actually read the explanation I gave for why that's relevant.

The 2004 report shows up in any search because the police were dispatched to his address - which the school had on file - from the get go.
Click to expand...
I read your explanation - which you seem to say that because this is a huge jurisdiction reports are not documented thoroughly that a prior visit would be confirmed (either because an address was not given or sheer laziness/negligence on part of police). You then seem to infer that from that the neighbors' accounts of calling the police with no response should be taken as correct. What I am saying is that, based on my experience dealing with neighborhood witnesses in cases where they make claims of either reporting things and/or police negligence, I disagree. Putting this into the original issue we were discussing, which is whether the cops should have entered the house when they were called out and are therefore partly to blame here for the length of captivity, since the only documented visit was the 2004 bus case I dont think we can conclude negligence based solely on the claims of some neighbors that the police were there more than this.
Click to expand...
No, I'm saying that Public Safety Director Martin Flask asked for a thorough search of whether the police were dispatched to the house. He got the answer he asked for.

I have no doubt that the police stopped by that house at other times. They just weren't dispatched there. He's been pretty specific in stating that emergency services weren't "called to" the home other than the 2004 and 2000 incidents. I think he's probably right. They visited the home after the initial dispatch.
Click to expand...
And you're basing this on the neighbors' accounts coupled with the fact that they likely would not have been "dispatched" to the suspect's specific address because it's reasonable the 911 caller didn't know it?

ETA: If so, you then realize it is standard protocol (at least in every jurisdiction I've worked in) for officers to then relay to dispatch updates of their locations and give an address - especially if they go to knock on a door - and that these notifications are either documented or recorded?
Click to expand...
Your jurisdictions change the dispatch log following initial dispatch? That sounds like a serious problem. Anywhere I've worked, police radio position updates which are included in incident reports logged by dispatch number and incident number. Dispatch is just that - being dispatched. If the criminal runs from a bar when the police show up and hides out in a house, the new units which are dispatched to that house will have a dispatch address of the house. The initial dispatch will still be to the bar.
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Obviously no.

But unless you're correct that the guy only addressed if officers were ever specifically dispatched to that location, I would think an address search, even in a large jurisdiction, would turn up the house and confirm whether officers were there. Given that, I don't think the guy would be that cagey and I'd still doubt the accuracy of the neighbors.
Click to expand...
To elaborate I'm assuming your source got this info from the neighbors today, when emotions are running high and the tendency to mischaracterize, exaggerate, or flat out lie is heightened.

 
Zow said:
Zow said:
Henry Ford said:
Zow said:
Henry Ford said:
Zow said:
Henry Ford said:
Zow said:
Henry Ford said:
Quick fun test - everyone, without looking, tell me your neighbor's address directly north of you.
Click to expand...
What am I missing here? I posted the link where the report states that the police went out to the address once in 2004. Again, if there's documented other incidents (and not just the claim of some neighbors) I stand corrected.
Click to expand...
You're missing the part where you actually read the explanation I gave for why that's relevant. The 2004 report shows up in any search because the police were dispatched to his address - which the school had on file - from the get go.
Click to expand...
I read your explanation - which you seem to say that because this is a huge jurisdiction reports are not documented thoroughly that a prior visit would be confirmed (either because an address was not given or sheer laziness/negligence on part of police). You then seem to infer that from that the neighbors' accounts of calling the police with no response should be taken as correct. What I am saying is that, based on my experience dealing with neighborhood witnesses in cases where they make claims of either reporting things and/or police negligence, I disagree. Putting this into the original issue we were discussing, which is whether the cops should have entered the house when they were called out and are therefore partly to blame here for the length of captivity, since the only documented visit was the 2004 bus case I dont think we can conclude negligence based solely on the claims of some neighbors that the police were there more than this.
Click to expand...
No, I'm saying that Public Safety Director Martin Flask asked for a thorough search of whether the police were dispatched to the house. He got the answer he asked for. I have no doubt that the police stopped by that house at other times. They just weren't dispatched there. He's been pretty specific in stating that emergency services weren't "called to" the home other than the 2004 and 2000 incidents. I think he's probably right. They visited the home after the initial dispatch.
Click to expand...
And you're basing this on the neighbors' accounts coupled with the fact that they likely would not have been "dispatched" to the suspect's specific address because it's reasonable the 911 caller didn't know it? ETA: If so, you then realize it is standard protocol (at least in every jurisdiction I've worked in) for officers to then relay to dispatch updates of their locations and give an address - especially if they go to knock on a door - and that these notifications are either documented or recorded?
Click to expand...
Your jurisdictions change the dispatch log following initial dispatch? That sounds like a serious problem. Anywhere I've worked, police radio position updates which are included in incident reports logged by dispatch number and incident number. Dispatch is just that - being dispatched. If the criminal runs from a bar when the police show up and hides out in a house, the new units which are dispatched to that house will have a dispatch address of the house. The initial dispatch will still be to the bar.
Click to expand...
Obviously no. But unless you're correct that the guy only addressed if officers were ever specifically dispatched to that location, I would think an address search, even in a large jurisdiction, would turn up the house and confirm whether officers were there. Given that, I don't think the guy would be that cagey and I'd still doubt the accuracy of the neighbors.
Click to expand...
To elaborate I'm assuming your source got this info from the neighbors today, when emotions are running high and the tendency to mischaracterize, exaggerate, or flat out lie is heightened.
Click to expand...
So your theory is based on several of the neighbors being wrong about their own actions or lying while mine is based on a public servant in Cleveland who had an hour or two to prepare for a national news conference running a less than comprehensive database search. Got it.
 
Henry Ford said:
Zow said:
Zow said:
Henry Ford said:
Zow said:
Henry Ford said:
Zow said:
Henry Ford said:
Zow said:
Henry Ford said:
Quick fun test - everyone, without looking, tell me your neighbor's address directly north of you.
Click to expand...
What am I missing here? I posted the link where the report states that the police went out to the address once in 2004. Again, if there's documented other incidents (and not just the claim of some neighbors) I stand corrected.
Click to expand...
You're missing the part where you actually read the explanation I gave for why that's relevant. The 2004 report shows up in any search because the police were dispatched to his address - which the school had on file - from the get go.
Click to expand...
I read your explanation - which you seem to say that because this is a huge jurisdiction reports are not documented thoroughly that a prior visit would be confirmed (either because an address was not given or sheer laziness/negligence on part of police). You then seem to infer that from that the neighbors' accounts of calling the police with no response should be taken as correct. What I am saying is that, based on my experience dealing with neighborhood witnesses in cases where they make claims of either reporting things and/or police negligence, I disagree. Putting this into the original issue we were discussing, which is whether the cops should have entered the house when they were called out and are therefore partly to blame here for the length of captivity, since the only documented visit was the 2004 bus case I dont think we can conclude negligence based solely on the claims of some neighbors that the police were there more than this.
Click to expand...
No, I'm saying that Public Safety Director Martin Flask asked for a thorough search of whether the police were dispatched to the house. He got the answer he asked for. I have no doubt that the police stopped by that house at other times. They just weren't dispatched there. He's been pretty specific in stating that emergency services weren't "called to" the home other than the 2004 and 2000 incidents. I think he's probably right. They visited the home after the initial dispatch.
Click to expand...
And you're basing this on the neighbors' accounts coupled with the fact that they likely would not have been "dispatched" to the suspect's specific address because it's reasonable the 911 caller didn't know it? ETA: If so, you then realize it is standard protocol (at least in every jurisdiction I've worked in) for officers to then relay to dispatch updates of their locations and give an address - especially if they go to knock on a door - and that these notifications are either documented or recorded?
Click to expand...
Your jurisdictions change the dispatch log following initial dispatch? That sounds like a serious problem. Anywhere I've worked, police radio position updates which are included in incident reports logged by dispatch number and incident number. Dispatch is just that - being dispatched. If the criminal runs from a bar when the police show up and hides out in a house, the new units which are dispatched to that house will have a dispatch address of the house. The initial dispatch will still be to the bar.
Click to expand...
Obviously no. But unless you're correct that the guy only addressed if officers were ever specifically dispatched to that location, I would think an address search, even in a large jurisdiction, would turn up the house and confirm whether officers were there. Given that, I don't think the guy would be that cagey and I'd still doubt the accuracy of the neighbors.
Click to expand...
To elaborate I'm assuming your source got this info from the neighbors today, when emotions are running high and the tendency to mischaracterize, exaggerate, or flat out lie is heightened.
Click to expand...
So your theory is based on several of the neighbors being wrong about their own actions or lying while mine is based on a public servant in Cleveland who had an hour or two to prepare for a national news conference running a less than comprehensive database search. Got it.
Click to expand...
You realize it takes any with access to the law enforcement database to run a basic search of the address and see whatever hits it pops up? I've watched prosecutors do this and it takes like 5 whole seconds. So, either the Cleveland software is out-dated and has worse documentation then a small, conservative AZ town, or the public servant is being intentionally misleading. I'd favor the former over the latter.

And I'm not necessarily saying the neighbors are out-right lying. They may have seen those things. I'm just willing to bet their accounts of the police involvement aren't exactly accurate. After all, didn't one of the callers claim to have watched police knock and leave? If that was the case, why wouldn't the caller and gone over to them and stressed the situation?

 
Charles is on AC360. He is awesome.

ETA: He just said that Amanda told him Ariel is the father of the little girl. Not that that is a surprise, or anthing.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
SacramentoBob said:
Henry Ford said:
Quick fun test - everyone, without looking, tell me your neighbor's address directly north of you.
Click to expand...
Our house numbers don't run consecutively, so if my north neighbor were on my street, I wouldn't know. Directly north of me is my backyard which leads to the backyard of another house, so I'd have even less of a clue in that instance.
Click to expand...
North of me is the even number 1 higher? East odd 2 higher, west 2 lower, south woods. Now what....
 
I am bad with links on my phone, but someone post mike polks Ramsey for President picture. I am rolling.

 
glumpy said:
Even McDonalds got involved:

We salute the courage of Ohio kidnap

victims & respect their privacy. Way to go

Charles Ramsey--we'll be in touch.
Click to expand...
Pedro Castro, who has been arrested with two of his brothers, spoke last July as an empty lot was excavated for the body of missing Amanda Berry by forensic crews working on a tip from a convict.

The small lot on West 30th Street and Wade Avenue - which is two blocks from the Seymour Avenue home where the three missing women were discovered on Monday afternoon - turned up nothing.

Sitting on the stoop of a house, wearing a floral shirt and sunglasses, Castro, now 54, gestured to the lot and declared that looking for Miss Berry's body was 'a waste of money'.

Read more: http://globalgrind.com/news/amanda-berry-story-missing-found-10-year-alive-charles-ramsey-list-photos-videos#ixzz2SfbvsSNO
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I guess he would know.

 
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:lol: Not sure if I should laugh at this or not but this is very well done.

 
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whoknew said:
Charles is on AC360. He is awesome.

ETA: He just said that Amanda told him Ariel is the father of the little girl. Not that that is a surprise, or anthing.
Click to expand...
So there were multiple kids born IN THE HOUSE? How does this happen? Not sure I'd be able to handle a birth without a hospital or doctor of some sort present :o

 
From police regarding some of the claims swirling out there (reports they were called about a girl on a dog leash in the backyard or girls pounding on the window):

Reminder: Media are encouraged to confirm reports from unofficial sources prior to presenting information to the public. For example, we have received multiple media inquiries regarding reports of naked women and women in chains at the Seymour home. Upon researching our call intake system extensively, only two calls for service from police are shown at that address. One call was from the resident, Ariel Castro, reporting a fight in the street. The second call was in relation to an incident regarding Ariel Castro and his duties as a bus driver. Police investigated the possibility that Castro had left a child unattended on a school bus. The investigation included an interview with Castro; however, officers did not enter the home. No charges were filed in that incident.
Click to expand...
 
Keerock said:
whoknew said:
Charles is on AC360. He is awesome. ETA: He just said that Amanda told him Ariel is the father of the little girl. Not that that is a surprise, or anthing.
Click to expand...
So there were multiple kids born IN THE HOUSE? How does this happen? Not sure I'd be able to handle a birth without a hospital or doctor of some sort present :o
Click to expand...
No one heard five babies crying in the house?
 
Pantherz said:
CNN just interviewed a neighbor who said his sister called police in 2011 after seeing a woman with a small child standing in the window of the house trying to get help. Guy said the Police knocked on the door about 20 times but no one came to the door. Police looked around outside then left.
Click to expand...
I wonder what happened to the follow-up. Not from the police, but the neighbors. If you see a woman with a small child in distress in the window of your neighbor's house... and you see the police come and go without anyone answering the door... do you dismiss the incident thinking you may have just imagined it? Or do you keep your eyes on that house?

Reminds me of the movie Disturbia.

 
Rohn Jambo said:
Keerock said:
whoknew said:
Charles is on AC360. He is awesome. ETA: He just said that Amanda told him Ariel is the father of the little girl. Not that that is a surprise, or anthing.
Click to expand...
So there were multiple kids born IN THE HOUSE? How does this happen? Not sure I'd be able to handle a birth without a hospital or doctor of some sort present :o
Click to expand...
No one heard five babies crying in the house?
Click to expand...
IIRC there were multiple miscarriages due to the women being malnourished.

 
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Robin Meade aired a clip of Anderson Cooper interviewing Ramsey (Ramsey whipped his paycheck out of his back pocket during the interview). Does anyone have a link to it?

ETA: have not watched it yet, but: http://youtu.be/e5elloa4kOc

 
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AAABatteries said:
Ministry of Pain said:
...I hate when I am not raising my voice but trying to correct someone or the situation and someone starts with the "calm down" stuff.
Click to expand...
That's sig material right there.
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I have a buddy who knows I hate this, he knows exactly when to time this into a conversation and say things like "Whoah, you don't have to yell" even when we are just talking low, cracks me up and gets me every time.

 
Where are folks getting the info that is not being reported thru most major news outlets? I haven't heard much details and some of you are saying a lot of stuff. Has there been any indication of possible bodies in the back yard?

 
Ministry of Pain said:
Where are folks getting the info that is not being reported thru most major news outlets? I haven't heard much details and some of you are saying a lot of stuff. Has there been any indication of possible bodies in the back yard?
Click to expand...
Sir, I'm gonna need for you to calm down.

We will get all the links you requested shortly.

Thank you

 
Charles Ramsey is one of the funniest people on TV, but I saw a story on Yahoo that one of the kidnappers helped hand out fliers of one of the missing girls he kidnapped. My already negative opinion of the guys just got astronomically worse.

 
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