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Montee Ball (1 Viewer)

23 carries for 67 yards. 2 receptions for 16 yards. 1 rush TD.

-Should CJ Anderson immediately be picked up by Ball owners?

-Does Ball just need more time to condition/gel w/ the offense because of the appendectomy?

-What do you guys think about his outlook going forward?

 
fire_tune said:
23 carries for 67 yards. 2 receptions for 16 yards. 1 rush TD.

-Should CJ Anderson immediately be picked up by Ball owners?

-Does Ball just need more time to condition/gel w/ the offense because of the appendectomy?

-What do you guys think about his outlook going forward?
Click to expand...
Shades of Quentin Griffin.

 
fire_tune said:
23 carries for 67 yards. 2 receptions for 16 yards. 1 rush TD.

-Should CJ Anderson immediately be picked up by Ball owners?

-Does Ball just need more time to condition/gel w/ the offense because of the appendectomy?

-What do you guys think about his outlook going forward?
Click to expand...
Did you watch the game at all?

I think hes an average RB but the other guy is as well....but they completely trust Montee with the ball. I'm not sure how good the Colts defense is either but Montee didn't score the TD easily. As an owner, I feel very fortunate.

But you have to be happy with him getting 23 carries....but i would expect some average games and some games like tonight as well.

There were times where he looked really good and made a 2 year run into like a 5-7 yard run. They didn't do very many screens for him.

 
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fire_tune said:
23 carries for 67 yards. 2 receptions for 16 yards. 1 rush TD.

-Should CJ Anderson immediately be picked up by Ball owners?

-Does Ball just need more time to condition/gel w/ the offense because of the appendectomy?

-What do you guys think about his outlook going forward?
Click to expand...
Hillman won the back up job, but missed tonight's game due to preparation because of a recent illness. He's the handcuff to Ball long term. I expect Ball to have over 1300 yds and double digit TDs.

 
The only reason to be excited for Ball is that be plays for Denver and got a lot of touches.

He has shown very little. Similar ypc as Trent, who is getting blasted I'm sure in the Trent thread. Only difference is that Denver stuck with him 20+ times.

This is a strange case where a back was anointed a top 5-10 back in the fantasy world based solely on situation and not on talent.

I'll admit I'm wrong if he turns it around, but I've seen nothing so far to indicate that he's anything special.

 
fire_tune said:
23 carries for 67 yards. 2 receptions for 16 yards. 1 rush TD.

-Should CJ Anderson immediately be picked up by Ball owners?

-Does Ball just need more time to condition/gel w/ the offense because of the appendectomy?

-What do you guys think about his outlook going forward?
Click to expand...
:yes:

Ball is not that good IMO. He ran with surprising power, but generally looked unathletic. The Denver RB is going to be $$$ so there's no point panicking if you're playing for 2014, but I would grab Anderson just in case the powers that be eventually sour on Montee. I actually thought Anderson looked to be the better athlete and the more gifted runner tonight. And I don't own either of these guys anywhere at this point.

 
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Sandeman said:
Ball ran hard, almost broke a couple. Didn't have much room through the line. He'll get his.
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This. He didn't have many sizeable holes. Broke several tackles, generally fell forward for the extra yard.

To the negative, he didn't look particularly explosive. He's not going to break many long ones. He appears to be an average to slightly better than average NFL starter in a great situation. He'll get his but he'll never be mistaken for Lesean McCoy or ADP. Top 5 or 10 for 2014 is a reasonable expectation, but he doesn't look like a long term star.

 
fire_tune said:
23 carries for 67 yards. 2 receptions for 16 yards. 1 rush TD.

-Should CJ Anderson immediately be picked up by Ball owners?

-Does Ball just need more time to condition/gel w/ the offense because of the appendectomy?

-What do you guys think about his outlook going forward?
Click to expand...
Honestly, I haven't seen as disgraceful of a performance from a Denver RB since the 8 games last year where Knowshon Moreno averaged 3.3 yards per carry or fewer.

To me, the 3 yards per carry means a lot less than the 23 carries. :shrug:

 
Lots of 1-game overreaction going on here for a guy who put up RB1 stats.

I think most people drafted him high because of his situation/opportunity, not because they were expecting LT2 breakaway type plays. He will have bigger games, and if last night was a "disappointment" then I'll be happy to take that floor every week.

 
LittlePhatty said:
Lots of 1-game overreaction going on here for a guy who put up RB1 stats.

I think most people drafted him high because of his situation/opportunity, not because they were expecting LT2 breakaway type plays. He will have bigger games, and if last night was a "disappointment" then I'll be happy to take that floor every week.
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Exactly. He got me 15 points in my .5 PPR I have him in. If that's what his "worst" games are going to be, I'll gladly take that every week.

 
He picked up the blitz last night like a seasoned pro. He was in for all three downs as well. I dont think he is going anywhere anytime soon.

 
Ball looked slow on my TV, no idea how he looked on yours but I agree a RB in this offence is golden. IMO CJ looked better. Hillman is a fumble away to being irrelevant so I would grab CJ quick.

 
I thought he looked fine and could have had another td if they didn't throw 3 times from the 5 early in the game. Colts run def looked much improved. They were in the backfield constantly.

 
rjv said:
Ball looked slow on my TV, no idea how he looked on yours but I agree a RB in this offence is golden. IMO CJ looked better. Hillman is a fumble away to being irrelevant so I would grab CJ quick.
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I wouldnt say ball looked slow... but there wasn't much room to run on his carries and he definitely ran hard and got what was blocked and then some on second effort. I'm just glad the TD salvaged his day

I do agree CJ anderson looked like he belonged in his limited action.... but it also seemed like the holes were bigger for him... now is that because he hit the hole a split second sooner than ball... I dont know

 
rjv said:
Ball looked slow on my TV, no idea how he looked on yours but I agree a RB in this offence is golden. IMO CJ looked better. Hillman is a fumble away to being irrelevant so I would grab CJ quick.
Click to expand...
You may need a new TV.

 
LittlePhatty said:
need2know said:
Colts run def looked much improved.
Click to expand...
I was going to say that too, but thought I might get laughed at. Glad someone else thinks the same thing.
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I made a note about this in my game notes. I don't recall seeing Ball getting more than 2 yards past the LoS without contact. I'm planning on charting it during review. It'll also be good to see the end zone view to see if that was because Ball wasn't making the right reads, or if there just wasn't anything there.

Edit: but again, it needs to be repeated- Knowshon Moreno was a top-5 RB last year. Montee Ball is a better runner than Knowshon Moreno. Jury is still out on him as a receiver, but Ball is plenty talented enough to match Moreno's numbers. Remember, Moreno had games last year with 9/28, 12/39, 15/42, 15/40, 13/43, 27/79, 15/18, 8/19, and 6/23 rushing. Plus 14/59 and a 5/17 games in the playoffs. Moreno had fewer than 50 rushing yards in fully half of his starts. He had lots of "bad" rushing days, and still finished the season as a top-5 fantasy back.

There were only two games last year where Moreno topped 20 carries (three counting playoffs). The fact that Ball did it in his first game should be a very positive sign.

 
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Adam Harstad said:
fire_tune said:
23 carries for 67 yards. 2 receptions for 16 yards. 1 rush TD.

-Should CJ Anderson immediately be picked up by Ball owners?

-Does Ball just need more time to condition/gel w/ the offense because of the appendectomy?

-What do you guys think about his outlook going forward?
Click to expand...
Honestly, I haven't seen as disgraceful of a performance from a Denver RB since the 8 games last year where Knowshon Moreno averaged 3.3 yards per carry or fewer.

To me, the 3 yards per carry means a lot less than the 23 carries. :shrug:
Click to expand...
Seriously, get a clue. You saw the Colts on the wrong side of the LoS as Ball was just getting the ball play after play, right?

 
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9: Montee Balls missed tackles forced, which led all running backs

Ball was hardly impressive in terms of his bulk stats against Indy; he rushed 23 times for 67 yardsgood for 2.9 YPC. The Broncos really had trouble winning at the point-of-attack, though, and the fact that Ball forced nine missed tackles on his carries suggests that he made the most of what was blocked for him.

Actually, by knowing Balls yards after contact, we can calculate how many yards he gained before contact on each play. It turns out that he ran for just 12 total yards before being hit by Colts defenders, which works out to only 0.52 yards per rush.

 
dwashington said:
9: Montee Balls missed tackles forced, which led all running backs

Ball was hardly impressive in terms of his bulk stats against Indy; he rushed 23 times for 67 yardsgood for 2.9 YPC. The Broncos really had trouble winning at the point-of-attack, though, and the fact that Ball forced nine missed tackles on his carries suggests that he made the most of what was blocked for him.

Actually, by knowing Balls yards after contact, we can calculate how many yards he gained before contact on each play. It turns out that he ran for just 12 total yards before being hit by Colts defenders, which works out to only 0.52 yards per rush.
Click to expand...
That confirms what I thought I saw. He will be fine

 
need2know said:
dwashington said:
9: Montee Balls missed tackles forced, which led all running backs

Ball was hardly impressive in terms of his bulk stats against Indy; he rushed 23 times for 67 yardsgood for 2.9 YPC. The Broncos really had trouble winning at the point-of-attack, though, and the fact that Ball forced nine missed tackles on his carries suggests that he made the most of what was blocked for him.

Actually, by knowing Balls yards after contact, we can calculate how many yards he gained before contact on each play. It turns out that he ran for just 12 total yards before being hit by Colts defenders, which works out to only 0.52 yards per rush.
Click to expand...
That confirms what I thought I saw. He will be fine
Click to expand...
This was very obvious - downright overt - watching the game and before there were any stats backing it up. Makes me wonder what an alleged expert like SSOG was watching that he puts this on Ball.

 
Bronco Billy said:
need2know said:
dwashington said:
9: Montee Balls missed tackles forced, which led all running backs

Ball was hardly impressive in terms of his bulk stats against Indy; he rushed 23 times for 67 yardsgood for 2.9 YPC. The Broncos really had trouble winning at the point-of-attack, though, and the fact that Ball forced nine missed tackles on his carries suggests that he made the most of what was blocked for him.

Actually, by knowing Balls yards after contact, we can calculate how many yards he gained before contact on each play. It turns out that he ran for just 12 total yards before being hit by Colts defenders, which works out to only 0.52 yards per rush.
Click to expand...
That confirms what I thought I saw. He will be fine
Click to expand...
This was very obvious - downright overt - watching the game and before there were any stats backing it up. Makes me wonder what an alleged expert like SSOG was watching that he puts this on Ball.
Click to expand...
I never put it on Ball. My first sentence on the subject was satirically pointing out that Montee Ball's stat line would not have looked the slightest bit out of place during Knowshon Moreno's top-5 fantasy season last year- half of his games were 3.3 ypc or worse!- and all of the panic was totally unwarranted. A point I expanded upon and clarified in detail right here.

 
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Like others have mentioned, I don't think it matters much how well he performs this year (assuming he achieves at least a baseline level of competence, as Moreno did last year). In this offense, he will produce, regardless of the level of his on field performance. As long as Manning, Julius Thomas, Demaryius Thomas, etc... are producing, Ball will manage to fall backwards into stats regardless of how he actually plays. In addition to that, above all else, the Broncos appear to value the ability to protect Peyton Manning from their running back. All other performance indicators seem to run a distant second to blitz pickup and pass protection. This was the reason that Moreno played so extensively during the first half of the year last season, despite some troubling metrics (as Adam mentioned earlier) and is also the reason it took Ball so long to carve out any kind of meaningful role (rookie running backs tend to struggle the most with learning blitz pickups, protections, etc...)

It seems crystal clear to me that this coaching staff feels Ball is BY FAR the safest bet for pass protection out of their current roster of running backs. He was on the field a huge portion of the time last night and appeared to only leave when he was winded or needed a break. The fact that he appeared to be on the field as much or more than true elite level stars such as Peterson and McCoy despite an obvious disparity in talent between them is an indication of the Broncos belief in his pass protection. Some might be concerned by the fact that the Broncos slowly lowered Moreno's workload last season as his stats continued to dip to pedestrian levels. However, unlike 2013, there is no running back on the roster that can challenge the starter's talent level. Last year, Moreno and Ball were comparable talents, in my opinion, so once Ball got up to speed with his ability to pass protect, the Broncos had no problem inserting him into the lineup as there was no noticable dropoff. Anyone who owned Moreno last year knew Ball loomed as an eventual problem to his workload as the season wore on. There is no such concern with any current backup on the Broncos roster this season, as I feel all are clearly inferior options to Ball. Even if you are of the belief that Ball is a below average player, that only makes Anderson and Hillman worse than below average, so it's a moot point. In this season, Ball has the best talent level of the bunch, regardless of what that talent level actually is, so even if the Broncos become more comfortable with Anderson and/or Hillman as pass protectors, they have no impetus to play them with the kind of regularity it would take to threaten Ball's workload.

That being said, to me, I saw nothing to be overly optimistic about from a dynasty perspective last night. Ball looked generally ok, and broke tackles and fought for yards, but looked far from explosive. In short, he looked like a player that is capable of producing top 10 numbers when he is in an elite situation, but not like a guy who can do that when in a less ideal situation. Due to his age, I believe there is still a window to sell very high in dynasty leagues, as there are plenty of people who think differently. I am of the belief that once Manning calls it quits. Ball is in for a very sharp decline in performance. Considering that could come as soon as 2015, given Manning's age, I have a hard time believing in Ball as a top 10 RB and feel the first half of 2014 presents a prime sell high window on Ball to obtain a true difference maker (although the opportunity to net someone like Le'Veon Bell or Giovanni Bernard, which may have been there prior to the season beginning, may have left already with their performances in week 1).

 
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Routilla said:
Haters gonna hate. Ball owners gonna continue balling with him in their line-ups.
Click to expand...
Then when he goes off against a weaker run defense they will simply say it's the competition LOL. The Colts played pretty good run D last night. I'm not sure if they will keep it up, but they were flying into the gaps last night.

 
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Herm23 said:
In this season, Ball has the best talent level of the bunch, regardless of what that talent level actually is, so even if the Broncos become more comfortable with Anderson and/or Hillman as pass protectors, they have no impetus to play them with the kind of regularity it would take to threaten Ball's workload.

In short, he looked like a player that is capable of producing top 10 numbers when he is in an elite situation, but not like a guy who can do that when in a less ideal situation.

I am of the belief that once Manning calls it quits. Ball is in for a very sharp decline in performance.
Click to expand...
Yep, yep and yep.

Even after watching his burstless performance last night, I still think Ball can push for 15 TDs this year if he stays healthy.

 
LawFitz said:
Herm23 said:
In this season, Ball has the best talent level of the bunch, regardless of what that talent level actually is, so even if the Broncos become more comfortable with Anderson and/or Hillman as pass protectors, they have no impetus to play them with the kind of regularity it would take to threaten Ball's workload.

In short, he looked like a player that is capable of producing top 10 numbers when he is in an elite situation, but not like a guy who can do that when in a less ideal situation.

I am of the belief that once Manning calls it quits. Ball is in for a very sharp decline in performance.
Click to expand...
Yep, yep and yep.

Even after watching his burstless performance last night, I still think Ball can push for 15 TDs this year if he stays healthy.
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Absolutely. TDs are where Ball holds most of his value.

 
Only issue I had was that he tried to bounce it outside a few times when he was in one on one situations and his lack of elite quicks/speed really made it a bad idea. He was brought down immediately every time. I think he would have been better served cutting up field. Not a big deal, we're probably talking the difference of a few yards, but might say something about his running style.

 
jbz said:
Only issue I had was that he tried to bounce it outside a few times when he was in one on one situations and his lack of elite quicks/speed really made it a bad idea. He was brought down immediately every time. I think he would have been better served cutting up field. Not a big deal, we're probably talking the difference of a few yards, but might say something about his running style.
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True, but if he didn't bounce it outside he'd have 0tds in his stat line

 
Stat of the day:

In 2013, no Denver RB played in more than 70% of the snaps in a single game (high total was Moreno's 63 of 90 against New England).

Last night, Montee Ball played in 90% of Denver's snaps. Ball played one fewer snap than Demaryius Thomas.

 
Food for thought:

9: Montee Ball’s missed tackles forced, which led all running backs
Ball was hardly impressive in terms of his bulk stats against Indy; he rushed 23 times for 67 yards—good for 2.9 YPC. The Broncos really had trouble winning at the point-of-attack, though, and the fact that Ball forced nine missed tackles on his carries suggests that he made the most of what was blocked for him.

Actually, by knowing Ball’s yards after contact, we can calculate how many yards he gained before contact on each play. It turns out that he ran for just 12 total yards before being hit by Colts defenders, which works out to only 0.52 yards per rush.

 
Adam Harstad said:
Stat of the day:

In 2013, no Denver RB played in more than 70% of the snaps in a single game (high total was Moreno's 63 of 90 against New England).

Last night, Montee Ball played in 90% of Denver's snaps. Ball played one fewer snap than Demaryius Thomas.
Click to expand...
Wow. Denver loves him

 
Adam Harstad said:
Stat of the day:

In 2013, no Denver RB played in more than 70% of the snaps in a single game (high total was Moreno's 63 of 90 against New England).

Last night, Montee Ball played in 90% of Denver's snaps. Ball played one fewer snap than Demaryius Thomas.
Click to expand...
Powerful stuff right here.

 
need2know said:
Adam Harstad said:
Stat of the day:

In 2013, no Denver RB played in more than 70% of the snaps in a single game (high total was Moreno's 63 of 90 against New England).

Last night, Montee Ball played in 90% of Denver's snaps. Ball played one fewer snap than Demaryius Thomas.
Click to expand...
Wow. Denver loves him
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Partly impacted by Hillman being out. Hillman is a true change of pace guy and will probably keep Ball below 90% of active. But yeah, it's clear Denver's coaches really buy into Montee Ball as a workhorse.

 
I'm no Matt Waldman, but upon review of the tape I count 18 or 19 of Ball's 23 carries (one was hard to tell for sure) where Ball is either contacted at or behind the line of scrimmage, or forced to halt his momentum and put on a move to avoid a defender behind the line of scrimmage. The furthest I saw him get before contact with the defense was 3 yards (his second run of the game, a 4-yard run on 2nd-and-5).

I'm not saying Montee Ball is Adrian Peterson or that the Indy game is going to wind up in his career highlight reel. I'm just saying it was a fine game. Solid. Good, but not great. He got what was blocked for him and then consistently tacked on an extra two yards afterwards. Didn't break anything, never really looked all that explosive or physically dominant, but he did his job. And like I said, based on watching every snap of both runners last season (multiple times, from multiple angles), I feel quite confident that Ball is a better runner than Moreno.

 
Adam Harstad said:
I'm no Matt Waldman, but upon review of the tape I count 18 or 19 of Ball's 23 carries (one was hard to tell for sure) where Ball is either contacted at or behind the line of scrimmage, or forced to halt his momentum and put on a move to avoid a defender behind the line of scrimmage. The furthest I saw him get before contact with the defense was 3 yards (his second run of the game, a 4-yard run on 2nd-and-5).

I'm not saying Montee Ball is Adrian Peterson or that the Indy game is going to wind up in his career highlight reel. I'm just saying it was a fine game. Solid. Good, but not great. He got what was blocked for him and then consistently tacked on an extra two yards afterwards. Didn't break anything, never really looked all that explosive or physically dominant, but he did his job. And like I said, based on watching every snap of both runners last season (multiple times, from multiple angles), I feel quite confident that Ball is a better runner than Moreno.
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This is what I saw too. He not only had no room to run, but he had no time to get running and create some momentum. Ball is the kind of back who needs a bit of room to get going. I don't think he is a superstar runner either, but he is better than the stat line shows from yesterday. I think the positive thing is that he delivered a decent fantasy day despite not having a great day as a runner. And the team must trust him as a blocker to have him on the field so much despite not having a hot hand on the day; that means more opportunities in the future.

 
Dude had his appendix out on Aug 4th and came back to play in the third preseason game 20 days later. I think people should give him a little time to get back to peak football condition before pimping scrubs like CJ Anderson.

 
Bronco Billy said:
Adam Harstad said:
fire_tune said:
23 carries for 67 yards. 2 receptions for 16 yards. 1 rush TD.

-Should CJ Anderson immediately be picked up by Ball owners?

-Does Ball just need more time to condition/gel w/ the offense because of the appendectomy?

-What do you guys think about his outlook going forward?
Click to expand...
Honestly, I haven't seen as disgraceful of a performance from a Denver RB since the 8 games last year where Knowshon Moreno averaged 3.3 yards per carry or fewer.

To me, the 3 yards per carry means a lot less than the 23 carries. :shrug:
Click to expand...
Seriously, get a clue. You saw the Colts on the wrong side of the LoS as Ball was just getting the ball play after play, right?
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Helluva game plan. When I look at the Bronco's the first thing I'm thinking is, "Let's not that second year back beat us!"

 
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