What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Montee Ball (1 Viewer)

What kind of value does Ball have in dynasty? I have Anderson in one league and tried picking Ball up and he will only take my 1.11 pick. I have Ball in another dynasty that I am rebuilding and I have been trying to sell him to the Anderson owner and he would only offer a very late 3rd.
Consensus rankings generally have him in the dynasty RB45-50 range, surrounded by names like West, Gore, Andre Williams, Blount, Randle/McFadden, Jennings. Value of course is in the eye of the beholder and the Ball owner isn't compelled to sell him for guys in that range. Personally, I wouldn't consider anything less than a mid-2nd and would jump at the chance to get a 1.11 for him. The offer you got of a late 3rd is a joke. That Anderson owner will be feeling pretty dumb if Ball beats him out somewhere down the line or Anderson suffers a serious injury.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
If I was the Anderson owner, while I see the value in Ball, I'd much rather invest the similar cost in Gore, and get a shot at two RB1's, than spend the same amount on Ball just in case. There's a decent chance that this one year of Gore will be worth more than Ball's entire remaining career. Of course, there's also a decent chance that's not true, but that's why trades happen and why this hobby is fun.

 
What kind of value does Ball have in dynasty? I have Anderson in one league and tried picking Ball up and he will only take my 1.11 pick. I have Ball in another dynasty that I am rebuilding and I have been trying to sell him to the Anderson owner and he would only offer a very late 3rd.
He is probably worth an early to mid second round pick. I wouldn't take a third round pick for him. And I probably wouldn't give up a first. Although he is closer to the late first and the third IMO. That situation is fluid and you have a new coaching staff. Ball was dealing with hernia surgery last year. I am not sure that Anderson is really any better myself.

 
I don't trust this situation at all in Denver. Wouldn't shock me to see a healthy ball take over the lead role. Those 3 rb's in Denver are just a minor injury away from dropping on the depth chart.

 
this would be just perfect.... i spent a ####load in both my leagues on ball at auction last year and he was awful... now that I can keep CJ for only $1 this season.... ball is going to force his way in a timeshare to screw me again.

 
Fireinside said:
PhantomZoner said:
Fireinside said:
Don't anyone find it strange that only one at the moment hyping Montee Ball, is Montee Ball?
If it helps, CJ Anderson is doing the same.
I think everyone does it, but at least C.J is getting help from Payton and Kubiak. Montee seems to be only one who is really high on Montee :P
Sorry I wasn't clear, I meant that CJ Anderson was hyping up Montee. He stated that they are 1A and 1B or agreed with Montee saying that in a recent interview.

 
Fireinside said:
PhantomZoner said:
Fireinside said:
Don't anyone find it strange that only one at the moment hyping Montee Ball, is Montee Ball?
If it helps, CJ Anderson is doing the same.
I think everyone does it, but at least C.J is getting help from Payton and Kubiak. Montee seems to be only one who is really high on Montee :P
Sorry I wasn't clear, I meant that CJ Anderson was hyping up Montee. He stated that they are 1A and 1B or agreed with Montee saying that in a recent interview.
If I remember correctly it was Montee who said that? Anyway... montee is a good back, not just as good as Anderson IMO

 
Fireinside said:
PhantomZoner said:
Fireinside said:
Don't anyone find it strange that only one at the moment hyping Montee Ball, is Montee Ball?
If it helps, CJ Anderson is doing the same.
I think everyone does it, but at least C.J is getting help from Payton and Kubiak. Montee seems to be only one who is really high on Montee :P
Sorry I wasn't clear, I meant that CJ Anderson was hyping up Montee. He stated that they are 1A and 1B or agreed with Montee saying that in a recent interview.
If I remember correctly it was Montee who said that? Anyway... montee is a good back, not just as good as Anderson IMO
I don't disagree with you one bit. CJ looked better than Ball both last year as well as the previous year in limited action. The only thing is even CJ seems to say that they will be splitting carries. I am not sure if Ball is refocused or maybe CJ is saying all that to make him feel better because they are great friends.

Check out the SI link above, here is an excerpt from that

I havent felt this good since Ive been in the NFL, Ball says. Im just going to keep my mouth shut and work. Theres a lot I can do. C.J. deserves the starting spot right now based on what he did toward the end of the season helping the team. But Im right there on his heels. We need two backs in this system.

Strangely enough, Anderson agrees. He says he knows he and Ball will be splitting carriesor at least that both with get a decent workloadand that both have what it takes to be successful running backs in Kubiaks system: vision, patience and decisiveness. And for all the competition, all the uncertainty, all the expectations, neither can help but be excited. For the first time in their pro careers, Anderson says, their coach wants to give them the ball.
 
I don't disagree with you one bit. CJ looked better than Ball both last year as well as the previous year in limited action.
Anderson had 7 carries in 5 games, don't you think that may be a little too limited to make any kind of reasonable judgement?

 
I don't disagree with you one bit. CJ looked better than Ball both last year as well as the previous year in limited action.
Anderson had 7 carries in 5 games, don't you think that may be a little too limited to make any kind of reasonable judgement?
True, but he did pass the eyeball test seemed to have more burst and explosion. But I agree with you the sample size is too small. Being devils advocate I would add that Ball in 2013 looked a lot better than Ball in 2014.

 
I know this is bad to say. but I am loving this. The Anderson owner in our league low balled me for about 2 weeks before and during our rookie draft and if this hype machine keeps on going I am going to be able to get Anderson on the cheap from him!!!

 
(USA Today) Denver Broncos RB C.J. Anderson showed better conditioning and performed better in offseason programs this year than he did last season.
(Rotoworld) Peyton Manning went out of his way to talk up C.J. Anderson Wednesday. Analysis: Anderson is splitting first-team reps with Montee Ball. We know that Peyton will have a big say on who is with him in the backfield. "C.J. of course, if you talk to him you think he's about a 12-year veteran starter and he's only started six games," Manning said. "I'm getting a ton of reps with him, and the sky is the limit for him, I will say that."
Troy RenckVerified account ‏@TroyRenck

Kubiak said that RB is CJ's job to lose. But admitted that "You never know about backs until put pads on." #Broncos
...few quotes for all those Montee Ball Lovers.

I think he will get some carries, but still Anderson will be the lead the way. What comes to Fantasy, it's hard to put Ball on the field if Anderson is playing as we hope he's playing,

I think Ball will be like Turbin in Seattle, will be used, but no fantasy value at all.

 
Why am I getting these memories of the Tatum Bell thread coming back to me?

Anyone who thinks this situation has shaken out right now and is set in stone is certifiable. This is Kubiak we're talking about. Remember him - the OC when everyone was grinding their teeth in frustration trying to figure out who DEN's starting RB was for all those years?

 
Rotoworld:

The Denver Post's Troy Renck believes the "window closed" on Montee Ball as the Broncos' starting running back last year.

As should be the case, Renck is of the opinion that C.J. Anderson will be the Broncos' feature back barring injury. Renck also described new coach Gary Kubiak's system as a "bellcow offense" where "the back doesn't rotate in and out." Anderson is going to open the season as Denver's three-down back. Ball is a quality handcuff, assuming he holds off Ronnie Hillman and Juwan Thompson.

Source: Denver Post
Jun 21 - 9:12 AM
 
Rotoworld:

The Denver Post's Troy Renck believes the "window closed" on Montee Ball as the Broncos' starting running back last year.

As should be the case, Renck is of the opinion that C.J. Anderson will be the Broncos' feature back barring injury. Renck also described new coach Gary Kubiak's system as a "bellcow offense" where "the back doesn't rotate in and out." Anderson is going to open the season as Denver's three-down back. Ball is a quality handcuff, assuming he holds off Ronnie Hillman and Juwan Thompson.

Source: Denver Post

Jun 21 - 9:12 AM
This really shouldn't surprise anyone who watched the games where Ball was the starter last year - he was singularly unimpressive and suffered in comparison when Hillman stepped in. Now maybe it was he hadn't fully recovered from his appendectomy, but I didn't particularly buy that explanation, as he never really looked that dynamic the year before when he was fully healthy.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
This really shouldn't surprise anyone who watched the games where Ball was the starter last year - he was singularly unimpressive and suffered in comparison when Hillman stepped in. Now maybe it was he hadn't fully recovered from his appendectomy, but I didn't particularly buy that explanation, as he never really looked that dynamic the year before when he was fully healthy.
He looked very dynamic as a rookie when he was fully healthy.

 
This really shouldn't surprise anyone who watched the games where Ball was the starter last year - he was singularly unimpressive and suffered in comparison when Hillman stepped in. Now maybe it was he hadn't fully recovered from his appendectomy, but I didn't particularly buy that explanation, as he never really looked that dynamic the year before when he was fully healthy.
He looked very dynamic as a rookie when he was fully healthy.
He did?
 
This really shouldn't surprise anyone who watched the games where Ball was the starter last year - he was singularly unimpressive and suffered in comparison when Hillman stepped in. Now maybe it was he hadn't fully recovered from his appendectomy, but I didn't particularly buy that explanation, as he never really looked that dynamic the year before when he was fully healthy.
He looked very dynamic as a rookie when he was fully healthy.
He did?
Yes. CJ is the guy this year but my goodness people have short memories around here.

 
This really shouldn't surprise anyone who watched the games where Ball was the starter last year - he was singularly unimpressive and suffered in comparison when Hillman stepped in. Now maybe it was he hadn't fully recovered from his appendectomy, but I didn't particularly buy that explanation, as he never really looked that dynamic the year before when he was fully healthy.
He looked very dynamic as a rookie when he was fully healthy.
He did?
Yes. CJ is the guy this year but my goodness people have short memories around here.
I'm a Badger fan, and thus followed Montee in college and with Denver. Sorry, but I thought he looked slow / lacking in burst even his rookie year. Yeah, he averaged a quality ypc that year but he just didn't look like a starter. Thus one of the reasons I've never owned him
 
I'm not comparing Ball to Anderson.

Saying Ball looked dynamic during his rookie run (which he did) <> saying Anderson does not look dynamic.

 
I'm not comparing Ball to Anderson.

Saying Ball looked dynamic during his rookie run (which he did) <> saying Anderson does not look dynamic.
I still don't agree that he looked dynamic. :shrug:
Call it what you want. He ran very well and was incredibly effective in the Broncos offense. To the point that he was the unquestioned starter going into last season.
He was so dynamic......that the coaching staff had no hesitation in replacing him with a UDFA.
 
I'm not comparing Ball to Anderson.

Saying Ball looked dynamic during his rookie run (which he did) <> saying Anderson does not look dynamic.
I still don't agree that he looked dynamic. :shrug:
Call it what you want. He ran very well and was incredibly effective in the Broncos offense. To the point that he was the unquestioned starter going into last season.
He was so dynamic......that the coaching staff had no hesitation in replacing him with a UDFA.
That is a disingenuous statement because you know that is not how it happened.

And I'm still not comparing Ball to Anderson.

 
I'm not comparing Ball to Anderson.

Saying Ball looked dynamic during his rookie run (which he did) <> saying Anderson does not look dynamic.
I still don't agree that he looked dynamic. :shrug:
Call it what you want. He ran very well and was incredibly effective in the Broncos offense. To the point that he was the unquestioned starter going into last season.
He was so dynamic......that the coaching staff had no hesitation in replacing him with a UDFA.
Right. Getting the rock a lot does not make one dynamic. Reminds me of the coverage of Reggie Bush his rookie year. ESPN would show the dizzying highlight real 8 yard run where he broke two tackles but not show that 4 of his 8 runs were for negative yards and he finished with like 4 yards on the day. Ball got a lot of carries but he didn't look dynamic enough to keep getting them and an UDFA has pushed him to the pine for the foreseeable future...

 
I'm not comparing Ball to Anderson.

Saying Ball looked dynamic during his rookie run (which he did) <> saying Anderson does not look dynamic.
I still don't agree that he looked dynamic. :shrug:
Call it what you want. He ran very well and was incredibly effective in the Broncos offense. To the point that he was the unquestioned starter going into last season.
He was so dynamic......that the coaching staff had no hesitation in replacing him with a UDFA.
That is a disingenuous statement because you know that is not how it happened. And I'm still not comparing Ball to Anderson.
It isn't disingenuous at all. Highly talented players keep their jobs, despite suffering injuries. Ball didn't keep his job.
 
Who in here believes CJ Anderson is a top 7 RB who will likely hold the starting job for at least 3 years without having to look over his shoulder?

Serious question.

My experience has taught me, that NO RB is the starter for long in Denver. Only T.D. and Clinton Portis come to mind as guys who didn't have to look over their shoulders. Hell, CJ Anderson didn't get the nod until Ball went down AND Hillman went down (who, by the way, didn't do too bad his damn self). Not here to question CJ Anderson's ability, but I just feel like that "grip" he has on the starting job isn't as tight as most would like to believe. At least not yet. After training camp and another season? Perhaps.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Man, I agree that people have short memories around here.

I don't think I would label Ball "dynamic" (although he certainly isn't static either)... but it's not like he had Trent Richardson's rookie year (who most would've still called dynamic) where he got a but-ton of carries but had a low YPC. 4.7 YPC on 120 carries is pretty good. Even if Peyton Manning is your QB.

The apendix and groin issues are clearly related. Though I can see how people would be skeptical of that just because they don't like Ball for some reason.

I don't think he'll be a perenial stud, but I don't think we've heard the last of Montee Ball.

 
georg013 said:
Who in here believes CJ Anderson is a top 7 RB who will likely hold the starting job for at least 3 years without having to look over his shoulder?

Serious question.

My experience has taught me, that NO RB is the starter for long in Denver. Only T.D. and Clinton Portis come to mind as guys who didn't have to look over their shoulders. Hell, CJ Anderson didn't get the nod until Ball went down AND Hillman went down (who, by the way, didn't do too bad his damn self). Not here to question CJ Anderson's ability, but I just feel like that "grip" he has on the starting job isn't as tight as most would like to believe. At least not yet. After training camp and another season? Perhaps.
It looks like Kubs has tabbed him to be his guy so if you believe he can stay healthy I think it is worth rolling the dice on him.

 
Man, I agree that people have short memories around here.

I don't think I would label Ball "dynamic" (although he certainly isn't static either)... but it's not like he had Trent Richardson's rookie year (who most would've still called dynamic) where he got a but-ton of carries but had a low YPC. 4.7 YPC on 120 carries is pretty good. Even if Peyton Manning is your QB.

The apendix and groin issues are clearly related. Though I can see how people would be skeptical of that just because they don't like Ball for some reason.

I don't think he'll be a perenial stud, but I don't think we've heard the last of Montee Ball.
Not a doctor but don't understand how a groin injury can be related to an appendix. Unless the appendix hampered conditioning maybe? :shuked:

 
Man, I agree that people have short memories around here.

I don't think I would label Ball "dynamic" (although he certainly isn't static either)... but it's not like he had Trent Richardson's rookie year (who most would've still called dynamic) where he got a but-ton of carries but had a low YPC. 4.7 YPC on 120 carries is pretty good. Even if Peyton Manning is your QB.

The apendix and groin issues are clearly related. Though I can see how people would be skeptical of that just because they don't like Ball for some reason.

I don't think he'll be a perenial stud, but I don't think we've heard the last of Montee Ball.
Not a doctor but don't understand how a groin injury can be related to an appendix. Unless the appendix hampered conditioning maybe? :shuked:
Yeah, there have been several articles this off season about how it hurt his core strength and his conditioning activities this summer, doing a lot of pilates type stuff to get his core strength up. There's also been a lot of offseason fluff saying that he's been quieter and more focused, working hard, etc. So there's reason to believe that 2015 ball is a lot better than 2014 ball, and probably better than 2013 ball, too. There have also been articles about cj Anderson having poor conditioning last year and that he's worked a lot harder this offseason. So take it all with a grain of salt. But the takeaway that his appendectomy impacted his core strength which slowed him down and led to his groin injury is real.

 
Man, I agree that people have short memories around here.

I don't think I would label Ball "dynamic" (although he certainly isn't static either)... but it's not like he had Trent Richardson's rookie year (who most would've still called dynamic) where he got a but-ton of carries but had a low YPC. 4.7 YPC on 120 carries is pretty good. Even if Peyton Manning is your QB.

The apendix and groin issues are clearly related. Though I can see how people would be skeptical of that just because they don't like Ball for some reason.

I don't think he'll be a perenial stud, but I don't think we've heard the last of Montee Ball.
Not a doctor but don't understand how a groin injury can be related to an appendix. Unless the appendix hampered conditioning maybe? :shuked:
It is very common, in life not just football, to get secondary injuries as a result of trying to compensate for primary injuries. Having surgery that goes through your abdominal muscle could easily cause someone to compensate for the pain/weakness by changing the way they move.

 
This would be a very good time to be a buyer of Ball on the cheap. He'll be a starter again in this league, whether in DEN or elsewhere. He's way too good to spend his career as a backup.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
This would be a very good time to be a buyer of Ball on the cheap. He'll be a starter again in this league, whether in DEN or elsewhere. He's way too good to spend his career as a backup.
I agree that it's a good time to buy ball and hillman. Not sure either will ever start anywhere other than Denver but they're both high value backups and I have less faith in Denver picking one starter and sticking with them for an extended period of time than most other teams.
 
This would be a very good time to be a buyer of Ball on the cheap. He'll be a starter again in this league, whether in DEN or elsewhere. He's way too good to spend his career as a backup.
I agree that it's a good time to buy ball and hillman. Not sure either will ever start anywhere other than Denver but they're both high value backups and I have less faith in Denver picking one starter and sticking with them for an extended period of time than most other teams.
That is not really Kubiak's M.O. he seems to prefer feeding one back as much as possible.

 
Kubiak's leading rusher

1995 Terrell Davis

1996 Terrell Davis

1997 Terrell Davis

1998 Terrell Davis

1999 Olandis Gary

2000 Mike Anderson

2001 Terrell Davis

2002 Clinton Portis

2003 Clinton Portis

2004 Reuben droughns

2005 Mike Anderson

2006 Ron Dayne

2007 Ron Dayne

2008 Steve Slaton

2009 Steve Slaton

2010 Arian Foster

2011 Arian Foster

2012 Arian Foster

2013 Ben Tate

2014 Justin Forsett

That's ten guys in 20 years. The only ones appearing three or more times are Terrell Davis, Arian Foster and Clinton Portis.

Denver hasn't started the same back three years in a row since Terrell Davis.

Kubiak has shown no qualms about starting older backs, retread free agents, undrafted guys, or guys who have been on the team for years as a backup. He has even decided mid season to change starters.

That last bit is certainly good news for CJ Anderson, but it's also potentially good news for ball and hillman. Kubiak has shown that he will go to the guy he thinks is best, and he frequently bucks the consensus opinion. That increases the value of any rb on his roster, because not only could he feasibly choose a different starter between now and September, he could switch midstream or after an injury or next year as well.

But yes, while a guy is starting, he tends to feed them to the exclusion of the other guys. That's what makes this such a high value backup situation. If Anderson gets hurt or fails, whoever takes over will be an auto start on virtually any roster.

 
This would be a very good time to be a buyer of Ball on the cheap. He'll be a starter again in this league, whether in DEN or elsewhere. He's way too good to spend his career as a backup.
If he is way too good not to be a starter again, what location is going to be better in the future than what he had in Denver when he was perceived as the far better talent there in an ideal situation?

I agree I would likely buy low if someone is selling low, but I don't think I buy thinking "I just need to sit tight and this guy is a big time starter somewhere". Overall, the hype on Ball was way out of control before and that thought seems to be lingering now. To complicate things, because the hype was so high on him previously, owners invested so much to get him initially that it may not be easy to find a seller. He is in the Trent Richardson territory now.

 
Kubiak's leading rusher

1995 Terrell Davis

1996 Terrell Davis

1997 Terrell Davis

1998 Terrell Davis

1999 Olandis Gary

2000 Mike Anderson

2001 Terrell Davis

2002 Clinton Portis

2003 Clinton Portis

2004 Reuben droughns

2005 Mike Anderson

2006 Ron Dayne

2007 Ron Dayne

2008 Steve Slaton

2009 Steve Slaton

2010 Arian Foster

2011 Arian Foster

2012 Arian Foster

2013 Ben Tate

2014 Justin Forsett

That's ten guys in 20 years. The only ones appearing three or more times are Terrell Davis, Arian Foster and Clinton Portis.

Denver hasn't started the same back three years in a row since Terrell Davis.

Kubiak has shown no qualms about starting older backs, retread free agents, undrafted guys, or guys who have been on the team for years as a backup. He has even decided mid season to change starters.

That last bit is certainly good news for CJ Anderson, but it's also potentially good news for ball and hillman. Kubiak has shown that he will go to the guy he thinks is best, and he frequently bucks the consensus opinion. That increases the value of any rb on his roster, because not only could he feasibly choose a different starter between now and September, he could switch midstream or after an injury or next year as well.

But yes, while a guy is starting, he tends to feed them to the exclusion of the other guys. That's what makes this such a high value backup situation. If Anderson gets hurt or fails, whoever takes over will be an auto start on virtually any roster.
Just off the top of my head, I see 4 years in that span where the "decision" to go with somebody else was clearly and absolutely the result of injury. Terrell Davis was the one and only choice until injuries dictated otherwise. Foster also and last year was a result of Kubiak going somewhere else.

Overall, Kubiak has shown a strong loyalty to identifying a talent and then sticking with them as long as they are healthy. It is a misnomer to think he just rolls out players and tinkers because he doesn't.

 
Right. When he had a Terrell Davis or Clinton Portis or Arian Foster he stuck with them. The question is whether CJ Anderson is one of those guys or an Olandis Gary.

 
Kubiak's leading rusher

1995 Terrell Davis

1996 Terrell Davis

1997 Terrell Davis

1998 Terrell Davis

1999 Olandis Gary

2000 Mike Anderson

2001 Terrell Davis

2002 Clinton Portis

2003 Clinton Portis

2004 Reuben droughns

2005 Mike Anderson

2006 Ron Dayne

2007 Ron Dayne

2008 Steve Slaton

2009 Steve Slaton

2010 Arian Foster

2011 Arian Foster

2012 Arian Foster

2013 Ben Tate

2014 Justin Forsett

That's ten guys in 20 years. The only ones appearing three or more times are Terrell Davis, Arian Foster and Clinton Portis.

Denver hasn't started the same back three years in a row since Terrell Davis.

Kubiak has shown no qualms about starting older backs, retread free agents, undrafted guys, or guys who have been on the team for years as a backup. He has even decided mid season to change starters.

That last bit is certainly good news for CJ Anderson, but it's also potentially good news for ball and hillman. Kubiak has shown that he will go to the guy he thinks is best, and he frequently bucks the consensus opinion. That increases the value of any rb on his roster, because not only could he feasibly choose a different starter between now and September, he could switch midstream or after an injury or next year as well.

But yes, while a guy is starting, he tends to feed them to the exclusion of the other guys. That's what makes this such a high value backup situation. If Anderson gets hurt or fails, whoever takes over will be an auto start on virtually any roster.
Now show other coaches who switched teams multiple times but had the same leading RB 3+ years in a row.

Kubiak is not an outlier, that's pretty much the norm for any team/coach.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
"Switched teams multiple times is a bit misleading." He was oc with Denver for 10 years and head coach of Houston for 9.

 
To complicate things, because the hype was so high on him previously, owners invested so much to get him initially that it may not be easy to find a seller. He is in the Trent Richardson territory now.
I've been able to buy him a couple times this offseason with mediocre players. His startup value is 12th or 13th round. CJ Anderson's presence provides a better buy opportunity than Richardson ever did. Richardson was the most valuable RB on his team (speaking purely from dynasty trade value! obviously he sported negative VOA the whole time) until about October last year. His situation is much closer to Ingram IMO. He's viewed as a bit of a bust and low end of a committee. There's potential for upside if his situation improves and he plays closer to his rookie year than his 2nd.

I didn't trust Ball at all as a rookie. I didn't draft him anywhere and tried hard to avoid him. But I view his rookie year as a positive, even though he didn't start, and see this as a buy opportunity given the cost. If it cost a late 1st to buy him like it did Richardson last year, I just wouldn't bother, but he is much cheaper than that.

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top