Moreno (1 Viewer)

[Bayhawks]

For sure. Given his age and injury, 2.5 million absolutely comes into play. If Moreno continues to look solid then they just found a way to save a significant chunk. I honestly don't expect McGahee to be back next year. I suspect Moreno will assume an Addai-esque role. In 2009 Addai was a top 10 back but he only broke 20 yards twice. His long for the season was 21 yards. His longest reception was 25. With Thomas and Decker (and the TEs), this offense isn't about 50 yard runs. If Denver doesn't sign DeAngelo Williams or something like that, then Moreno could easily finish top 10 without shedding his "unspectacular" label.

100% agree here - I think the appropriate comparison for Moreno is how Addai looked in Peyton's offense in Indy. Nothing flashy, and more of an aggregator than a play-maker. But, in Peyton's offense, the RB just needs to keep the defense honest, keep the pass-rush from selling out every time, and hit the hole hard for 4YPC. Pass protection and receiving ability is also paramount, which Moreno can do all of those things.

What did the Colts do after watching Addai not make big plays for 2 years? Draft another RB in the 1st round.

This is true. They did, however, watch him put up RB1 FF numbers for 3/4 years preceeding those two, though. If Moreno were to do anything similar to that, I believe most of his FF owners would be more than happy with that.

 

[matttyl]

Im sure Willis will be back, beacuase NFL teams need RB depth.

Backup QBs get paid 2.5 mil. Backup RBs don't. I'd be shocked if Willis is back at 2.5 mil and realistically his veteran minimum could make him prohibitively expensive for a backup role.

What's the backup RB in Carolina (where Fox came from) getting paid? That's been a very high figure for years.

Were you just pointing that out as a fun exercise or do you think one dumb owner/GM negates my statement? And as JFS171 pointed out, your statement isn't even true. When John Fox was there, the backups weren't getting paid.Stephen Davis/DeShaun FosterDeShaun Foster/DeAngelo WilliamsDeAngelo Williams/Jonathan StewartKnowshon Moreno/Ronnie Hillmanthe veteran contract/rookie contract trend continues...

Just pointing it out to show that there are some backfields that combined do count for a lot of a team's cap number. Carolina is one of them, there have been others. We also can't assume that Willis would be the backup if he's back next year. He might be the starter, at which point $2.5M isn't anything. If all 3 of Willis, Moreno and Hillman are all back next year - their combined salary for the top 3 RBs on their depth chart is under $5M.

 

[BRONG]

I still can't find out what was wrong with his back (it appeared) on Sunday. Anybody? He was on the trainer's table and out of the game. Then stood up to kind of turn/stretch it and started wincing.

 

[SayWhat?]

Stop with the big play crap, it does not matter in a manning offense.Let me ask this, big play guy, last week Moreno 22- 118 no big playsChris Johnson 21-122 big play includedNow I'm no NFL coach but I believe the 4-5 consistent yards Moreno gets is preferred to a bunch of nothing then boom.Manning is there for the big plays and Moreno is the perfect back.Take Moreno last 4games (small sample size) over a year and he gets close to 2000 total yards. Big play not needed and I dare say most coaches would prefer to get those yards w/o big plays, as that means consistency.I don't have Moreno in a league but he continues these numbers, I'll trade a Chris Johnson straight for him, as I also like consistent production vs. Big play production.

In a Manning offense they'd rather have a plodder than someone who can make plays? I could see the argument if it was plodder/fundamentally sound player vs dynamic/lacking in fundamentals one, which may actually be the case between Moreno and Hillman. But to compare Moreno's production this past week (a plodder in a dynamic offense led by a HOF quarterback) to that of Chris Johnson (a big play threat in a mediocre offense led by a wildly inconsistent young quarterback) doesn't make much sense. Does that mean that the Broncos would prefer Moreno to Chris Johnson, because Moreno can't break off an 80 yard TD? Huh? If you had a crystal ball and could predict how long Moreno would actually hold onto his position as starting RB for the Broncos, then sure you may consider him over more dynamic running backs in far less ideal situations. But there is no crystal ball and hence, it's pretty tough to feel any level of confidence that the Broncos 4th string RB from a month ago has someone finally "figured it out" at the tail end of his fourth year in the league when he's not flashing anything different in his play than he did in the first three and a half years. Like I've said, ride Moreno while it lasts or cash him out ASAP. But expecting him to hold that position as starting RB for the Broncos long-term is a losing proposition IMO.

 

[Shutout]

Stop with the big play crap, it does not matter in a manning offense.Let me ask this, big play guy, last week Moreno 22- 118 no big playsChris Johnson 21-122 big play includedNow I'm no NFL coach but I believe the 4-5 consistent yards Moreno gets is preferred to a bunch of nothing then boom.Manning is there for the big plays and Moreno is the perfect back.Take Moreno last 4games (small sample size) over a year and he gets close to 2000 total yards. Big play not needed and I dare say most coaches would prefer to get those yards w/o big plays, as that means consistency.I don't have Moreno in a league but he continues these numbers, I'll trade a Chris Johnson straight for him, as I also like consistent production vs. Big play production.

In a Manning offense they'd rather have a plodder than someone who can make plays? I could see the argument if it was plodder/fundamentally sound player vs dynamic/lacking in fundamentals one, which may actually be the case between Moreno and Hillman. But to compare Moreno's production this past week (a plodder in a dynamic offense led by a HOF quarterback) to that of Chris Johnson (a big play threat in a mediocre offense led by a wildly inconsistent young quarterback) doesn't make much sense. Does that mean that the Broncos would prefer Moreno to Chris Johnson, because Moreno can't break off an 80 yard TD? Huh? If you had a crystal ball and could predict how long Moreno would actually hold onto his position as starting RB for the Broncos, then sure you may consider him over more dynamic running backs in far less ideal situations. But there is no crystal ball and hence, it's pretty tough to feel any level of confidence that the Broncos 4th string RB from a month ago has someone finally "figured it out" at the tail end of his fourth year in the league when he's not flashing anything different in his play than he did in the first three and a half years. Like I've said, ride Moreno while it lasts or cash him out ASAP. But expecting him to hold that position as starting RB for the Broncos long-term is a losing proposition IMO.

The opposite to being down on a "plodder" is kinda like teams in basketball that live by the three and die by the three because the plodder, in a Manning system, IS going to generate points and be used. The dynamic homerun guy, like Chris Johnson, may represent a higher ceiling but also a lower floor. This past week, Moreno and Johnson had similar point production but 90% of Johnson's came on one play. So, you can look at that and say "See? That's why you want Johnson, because he can blow up and win a game for youORyou can look at that and say "See? That's why people pull their hair out over Chris Johnson, because he's feast or famine and gets you as many 7 point games as 27 point games. Without that one particular play the other night, CJ ends up with about 4 points, if that. It may not be your cup of tea for most of the year, but especially in the playoffs, having a guy you know is going to be consistent throughout the entire game counts for something.

 

[FF Ninja]

Stop with the big play crap, it does not matter in a manning offense.Let me ask this, big play guy, last week Moreno 22- 118 no big playsChris Johnson 21-122 big play includedNow I'm no NFL coach but I believe the 4-5 consistent yards Moreno gets is preferred to a bunch of nothing then boom.Manning is there for the big plays and Moreno is the perfect back.Take Moreno last 4games (small sample size) over a year and he gets close to 2000 total yards. Big play not needed and I dare say most coaches would prefer to get those yards w/o big plays, as that means consistency.I don't have Moreno in a league but he continues these numbers, I'll trade a Chris Johnson straight for him, as I also like consistent production vs. Big play production.

In a Manning offense they'd rather have a plodder than someone who can make plays? I could see the argument if it was plodder/fundamentally sound player vs dynamic/lacking in fundamentals one, which may actually be the case between Moreno and Hillman. But to compare Moreno's production this past week (a plodder in a dynamic offense led by a HOF quarterback) to that of Chris Johnson (a big play threat in a mediocre offense led by a wildly inconsistent young quarterback) doesn't make much sense. Does that mean that the Broncos would prefer Moreno to Chris Johnson, because Moreno can't break off an 80 yard TD? Huh? If you had a crystal ball and could predict how long Moreno would actually hold onto his position as starting RB for the Broncos, then sure you may consider him over more dynamic running backs in far less ideal situations. But there is no crystal ball and hence, it's pretty tough to feel any level of confidence that the Broncos 4th string RB from a month ago has someone finally "figured it out" at the tail end of his fourth year in the league when he's not flashing anything different in his play than he did in the first three and a half years. Like I've said, ride Moreno while it lasts or cash him out ASAP. But expecting him to hold that position as starting RB for the Broncos long-term is a losing proposition IMO.

Difference between the two is you end up with a couple long TDs and a ton of 3rd and longs OR you rely on your passing game for long TDs and you get a lot of 3rd and shorts from your running game (and you kill a lot more clock and reduce turnovers on 3rd down).

 

[Kitrick Taylor]

Stop with the big play crap, it does not matter in a manning offense.Let me ask this, big play guy, last week Moreno 22- 118 no big playsChris Johnson 21-122 big play includedNow I'm no NFL coach but I believe the 4-5 consistent yards Moreno gets is preferred to a bunch of nothing then boom.Manning is there for the big plays and Moreno is the perfect back.Take Moreno last 4games (small sample size) over a year and he gets close to 2000 total yards. Big play not needed and I dare say most coaches would prefer to get those yards w/o big plays, as that means consistency.I don't have Moreno in a league but he continues these numbers, I'll trade a Chris Johnson straight for him, as I also like consistent production vs. Big play production.

In a Manning offense they'd rather have a plodder than someone who can make plays? I could see the argument if it was plodder/fundamentally sound player vs dynamic/lacking in fundamentals one, which may actually be the case between Moreno and Hillman. But to compare Moreno's production this past week (a plodder in a dynamic offense led by a HOF quarterback) to that of Chris Johnson (a big play threat in a mediocre offense led by a wildly inconsistent young quarterback) doesn't make much sense. Does that mean that the Broncos would prefer Moreno to Chris Johnson, because Moreno can't break off an 80 yard TD? Huh? If you had a crystal ball and could predict how long Moreno would actually hold onto his position as starting RB for the Broncos, then sure you may consider him over more dynamic running backs in far less ideal situations. But there is no crystal ball and hence, it's pretty tough to feel any level of confidence that the Broncos 4th string RB from a month ago has someone finally "figured it out" at the tail end of his fourth year in the league when he's not flashing anything different in his play than he did in the first three and a half years. Like I've said, ride Moreno while it lasts or cash him out ASAP. But expecting him to hold that position as starting RB for the Broncos long-term is a losing proposition IMO.

Difference between the two is you end up with a couple long TDs and a ton of 3rd and longs OR you rely on your passing game for long TDs and you get a lot of 3rd and shorts from your running game (and you kill a lot more clock and reduce turnovers on 3rd down).

I guess this comparison to Chris Johnson means nothing to me. Moreno is going to be competing for a job in 2013 against McGahee, Hillman, and whomever the Broncos decide to add, if anybody. They'll have options in the FA market, (DeAngelo?), and in the draft. I'm perfectly willing to admit that Moreno has come in and looked good. It's certainly plausible that he may figure strongly into what the Broncos do in 2013. Playing FF we all have to make calls on players. None of us are always right. I'm comfortable passing on any opportunity to acquire him because I'm confident what we are seeing is more of a mirage than a trend. I've given numerous reasons to back up my position. They are based on statistics, (no big play ability), and facts (fresh legs vs poor rush defenses). Some people around here are opting to dismiss these things, and that's fine. It would be a pretty boring hobby, and impossible to trade for anybody if we all felt the same about a player.

 

[FF Ninja]

I guess this comparison to Chris Johnson means nothing to me. Moreno is going to be competing for a job in 2013 against McGahee, Hillman, and whomever the Broncos decide to add, if anybody. They'll have options in the FA market, (DeAngelo?), and in the draft. I'm perfectly willing to admit that Moreno has come in and looked good. It's certainly plausible that he may figure strongly into what the Broncos do in 2013. Playing FF we all have to make calls on players. None of us are always right. I'm comfortable passing on any opportunity to acquire him because I'm confident what we are seeing is more of a mirage than a trend. I've given numerous reasons to back up my position. They are based on statistics, (no big play ability), and facts (fresh legs vs poor rush defenses). Some people around here are opting to dismiss these things, and that's fine. It would be a pretty boring hobby, and impossible to trade for anybody if we all felt the same about a player.

Yeah, that comparison was not directed at you.But I don't think anyone is going to argue with you that Moreno's lack of big play ability will always hold him back from being elite. For that very reason, I've completely avoided him his whole career. Have never drafted him in a single redraft. But at this point it seems that we now have a square peg and a square hole. If Moreno can get consistent yardage, block when called upon, and be a reliable dump off pass catcher then he should have a job next year. Hillman appears to be seen as a CoP back for John Fox. Moreno appears to be getting everything he can handle this year. I'd think if he handles it well and performs during the playoffs that he'd have the upper hand over a 32 year old McGahee who was never known to be a pass catcher anyway. Lots of assumptions in there, I know. But his skill set and this situation have all the makings for a very unspectacular low end RB1 production. 20 carries a game and 3-4 catches is a large enough workload that almost anyone can have a top 12 finish - for instance check out Doug Martin save for the Oakland game. Guy has done nothing but 4.0 ypc and a few catches all year long but he's accumulating points. Throw in one massive game and people think he's the next great thing...

 

[Billy Ball Thorton]

Stop with the big play crap, it does not matter in a manning offense.Let me ask this, big play guy, last week Moreno 22- 118 no big playsChris Johnson 21-122 big play includedNow I'm no NFL coach but I believe the 4-5 consistent yards Moreno gets is preferred to a bunch of nothing then boom.Manning is there for the big plays and Moreno is the perfect back.Take Moreno last 4games (small sample size) over a year and he gets close to 2000 total yards. Big play not needed and I dare say most coaches would prefer to get those yards w/o big plays, as that means consistency.I don't have Moreno in a league but he continues these numbers, I'll trade a Chris Johnson straight for him, as I also like consistent production vs. Big play production.

In a Manning offense they'd rather have a plodder than someone who can make plays? I could see the argument if it was plodder/fundamentally sound player vs dynamic/lacking in fundamentals one, which may actually be the case between Moreno and Hillman. But to compare Moreno's production this past week (a plodder in a dynamic offense led by a HOF quarterback) to that of Chris Johnson (a big play threat in a mediocre offense led by a wildly inconsistent young quarterback) doesn't make much sense. Does that mean that the Broncos would prefer Moreno to Chris Johnson, because Moreno can't break off an 80 yard TD? Huh? If you had a crystal ball and could predict how long Moreno would actually hold onto his position as starting RB for the Broncos, then sure you may consider him over more dynamic running backs in far less ideal situations. But there is no crystal ball and hence, it's pretty tough to feel any level of confidence that the Broncos 4th string RB from a month ago has someone finally "figured it out" at the tail end of his fourth year in the league when he's not flashing anything different in his play than he did in the first three and a half years. Like I've said, ride Moreno while it lasts or cash him out ASAP. But expecting him to hold that position as starting RB for the Broncos long-term is a losing proposition IMO.

The opposite to being down on a "plodder" is kinda like teams in basketball that live by the three and die by the three because the plodder, in a Manning system, IS going to generate points and be used. The dynamic homerun guy, like Chris Johnson, may represent a higher ceiling but also a lower floor. This past week, Moreno and Johnson had similar point production but 90% of Johnson's came on one play. So, you can look at that and say "See? That's why you want Johnson, because he can blow up and win a game for youORyou can look at that and say "See? That's why people pull their hair out over Chris Johnson, because he's feast or famine and gets you as many 7 point games as 27 point games. Without that one particular play the other night, CJ ends up with about 4 points, if that. It may not be your cup of tea for most of the year, but especially in the playoffs, having a guy you know is going to be consistent throughout the entire game counts for something.

Thank you.Saywhat, you missed the entire point. First Moreno hardly looks loike a plodder and he continues to put up great yards and again would be on pace for 1500+ rushing yards on less carries then a guy like Foster is getting now. Save the he's a slow plodder as he may not break a bunch of 20+ but I would think the constant 6-8 type carries are just fine.He's also put up better nubers then many "dynamic" backs the last 4 weeks as well, pretty good for a plodder. I guess manning put him on his back and carried him to AFC player of the week, this week. If he continues to play like he has thus far, he's going to be a great asset to a fantasy team.

 

[thatguy]

I just don't see that as very likely however. Moreno just never had the physical tools to be anything more than a below average back. That showed up at the combine, and has showed up throughout the beginning of his NFL career. The guy has 568 career carries. Five of them have gone for 20+ yards. He's never had a carry go longer than 36 yards. I know there's a lot of his defenders that say he's a different guy now. He's had 102 carries this season. His longest carry is 20 yards. This is why the previous Denver regime soured on him, and why the current one didn't activate him for most of this season.

Well this just ain't true. The previous regime didn't "sour on him" because of his lack of big plays. They soured on him because he couldn't stay healthy. The current regime didn't "sour on him" because of his lack of big plays. They didn't activate him because he wasn't fully recovered from his injury early, he didn't play ST, and they needed the roster spot. Except for McGahee, their other RBs played ST.

Again, I'll go on record as saying that I'm not as high on Moreno as most. IF McGahee gets released/retires, Moreno could have some value as the RB in a P. Manning offense (ala Joseph Addai), but you're stacking your cards and manipulating the facts to try to make a point that doesn't exist.

So you honestly don't think the fact that his game is all but devoid of big play potential has anything to do with his diminished role over the last couple years? I'd agree that his injuries certainly played a role too, but I didn't just make up his lack of big plays. I didn't skew any statistics. Its real, its a large sample, and it doesn't bode well for his potential as a feature type guy. I guess people can ignore this if they want. But the only RB that I can find with any sort of longevity with a similar dearth of big plays is Shonn Greene. Coaches/GMs want to know that if they are gonna give you the ball 15-20x a game that they are gonna get some explosive plays. That simply is not part of Moreno's game, and I don't think he'll ever get a full time feature role because of it.

I don't know. I'd say that Edge post injury was exactly that kind of back. Never broke big plays. His 'big' plays were of the 20 yard variety, just like Moreno's, but he was extremely effective and a very integral part of the the Indy offense. He was very patient and great at picking up those 5-10 yard runs, which are extremely valuable, but certainly not a game breaker. Don't underplay the importance of a RB who can consistently get positive yardage, even if he never has those 50+ yard TD runs.

 

[cvnpoka]

The opposite to being down on a "plodder" is kinda like teams in basketball that live by the three and die by the three because the plodder, in a Manning system, IS going to generate points and be used. The dynamic homerun guy, like Chris Johnson, may represent a higher ceiling but also a lower floor. This past week, Moreno and Johnson had similar point production but 90% of Johnson's came on one play. So, you can look at that and say "See? That's why you want Johnson, because he can blow up and win a game for youORyou can look at that and say "See? That's why people pull their hair out over Chris Johnson, because he's feast or famine and gets you as many 7 point games as 27 point games. Without that one particular play the other night, CJ ends up with about 4 points, if that. It may not be your cup of tea for most of the year, but especially in the playoffs, having a guy you know is going to be consistent throughout the entire game counts for something.

lol at thinking chris johnson would remain similarly feast or famine in that bronco offense.

 

[Kitrick Taylor]

I just don't see that as very likely however. Moreno just never had the physical tools to be anything more than a below average back. That showed up at the combine, and has showed up throughout the beginning of his NFL career. The guy has 568 career carries. Five of them have gone for 20+ yards. He's never had a carry go longer than 36 yards. I know there's a lot of his defenders that say he's a different guy now. He's had 102 carries this season. His longest carry is 20 yards. This is why the previous Denver regime soured on him, and why the current one didn't activate him for most of this season.

Well this just ain't true. The previous regime didn't "sour on him" because of his lack of big plays. They soured on him because he couldn't stay healthy. The current regime didn't "sour on him" because of his lack of big plays. They didn't activate him because he wasn't fully recovered from his injury early, he didn't play ST, and they needed the roster spot. Except for McGahee, their other RBs played ST.

Again, I'll go on record as saying that I'm not as high on Moreno as most. IF McGahee gets released/retires, Moreno could have some value as the RB in a P. Manning offense (ala Joseph Addai), but you're stacking your cards and manipulating the facts to try to make a point that doesn't exist.

So you honestly don't think the fact that his game is all but devoid of big play potential has anything to do with his diminished role over the last couple years? I'd agree that his injuries certainly played a role too, but I didn't just make up his lack of big plays. I didn't skew any statistics. Its real, its a large sample, and it doesn't bode well for his potential as a feature type guy. I guess people can ignore this if they want. But the only RB that I can find with any sort of longevity with a similar dearth of big plays is Shonn Greene. Coaches/GMs want to know that if they are gonna give you the ball 15-20x a game that they are gonna get some explosive plays. That simply is not part of Moreno's game, and I don't think he'll ever get a full time feature role because of it.

I don't know. I'd say that Edge post injury was exactly that kind of back. Never broke big plays. His 'big' plays were of the 20 yard variety, just like Moreno's, but he was extremely effective and a very integral part of the the Indy offense. He was very patient and great at picking up those 5-10 yard runs, which are extremely valuable, but certainly not a game breaker. Don't underplay the importance of a RB who can consistently get positive yardage, even if he never has those 50+ yard TD runs.

Those guys do exist in the NFL. But they are a rare commodity. Addai lasted as long as he did because Donald Brown is basically a bust. It happens, but it's mostly because teams failed with their replacement plan. It also happens when teams are just stupid. (Nobody outside of Arizona thought it was a good idea to sign a mostly washed up Edgerrin James to a big contract.) The early returns suggest Elway/Fox are not stupid.

Moreno could get that Denver RB job next year. If he does, I think his upside is Joseph Addai. I also think there's a very good chance they give it back to McGahee, or bring in somebody else more talented to take it.

Just my .02

 

[Billy Ball Thorton]

Good chance they give it back to a 32 year old back coming off a knee injury? Lol... I no longer will read what you have to say on the subject as your objective is now clear. Really a silly statement and zero chance of happening.

Will they draft a back or bring in a dwill to hurt Moreno value, possibly, idk but your out of your element donnie

 

[Bayhawks]

Those guys do exist in the NFL. But they are a rare commodity. Addai lasted as long as he did because Donald Brown is basically a bust. It happens, but it's mostly because teams failed with their replacement plan. It also happens when teams are just stupid. (Nobody outside of Arizona thought it was a good idea to sign a mostly washed up Edgerrin James to a big contract.) The early returns suggest Elway/Fox are not stupid.

Moreno could get that Denver RB job next year. If he does, I think his upside is Joseph Addai. I also think there's a very good chance they give it back to McGahee, or bring in somebody else more talented to take it.

Just my .02

This isn't true (the bolded), not at all. Brown was drafted in 2009. 2009 was Addai's last season as a FF RB1. Addai played 6 years, and was a FF RB 1 in 3 of those years (only 1 of which was with Donald Brown on the team). His FF value was because he was in a Peyton Manning offense, not because Donald Brown was basically a bust.

 

[Bayhawks]

Good chance they give it back to a 32 year old back coming off a knee injury? Lol... I no longer will read what you have to say on the subject as your objective is now clear. Really a silly statement and zero chance of happening.Will they draft a back or bring in a dwill to hurt Moreno value, possibly, idk but your out of your element donnie

I read his statement as being he thinks there's a good chance they give it [the RB1 job] back to McGahee OR to another RB they bring in.However, you saying his objective is now clear, then following that with "zero chance of happening" is ridiculous. You deride him for thinking he meant there is a good chance they give the job back to McGahee, but then state there's a "zero chance" of that (giving the job back to McGahee) happening? It seems that your objective is pretty clear.

 

[Billy Ball Thorton]

Good chance they give it back to a 32 year old back coming off a knee injury? Lol... I no longer will read what you have to say on the subject as your objective is now clear. Really a silly statement and zero chance of happening.Will they draft a back or bring in a dwill to hurt Moreno value, possibly, idk but your out of your element donnie

I read his statement as being he thinks there's a good chance they give it [the RB1 job] back to McGahee OR to another RB they bring in.However, you saying his objective is now clear, then following that with "zero chance of happening" is ridiculous. You deride him for thinking he meant there is a good chance they give the job back to McGahee, but then state there's a "zero chance" of that (giving the job back to McGahee) happening? It seems that your objective is pretty clear.

 

[Bayhawks]

Good chance they give it back to a 32 year old back coming off a knee injury? Lol... I no longer will read what you have to say on the subject as your objective is now clear. Really a silly statement and zero chance of happening.Will they draft a back or bring in a dwill to hurt Moreno value, possibly, idk but your out of your element donnie

I read his statement as being he thinks there's a good chance they give it [the RB1 job] back to McGahee OR to another RB they bring in.However, you saying his objective is now clear, then following that with "zero chance of happening" is ridiculous. You deride him for thinking he meant there is a good chance they give the job back to McGahee, but then state there's a "zero chance" of that (giving the job back to McGahee) happening? It seems that your objective is pretty clear.

That is a very persuasive point. Good to see you came back with your strongest, most well thought out, reasoned argument.

 

[Billy Ball Thorton]

Good chance they give it back to a 32 year old back coming off a knee injury? Lol... I no longer will read what you have to say on the subject as your objective is now clear. Really a silly statement and zero chance of happening.Will they draft a back or bring in a dwill to hurt Moreno value, possibly, idk but your out of your element donnie

I read his statement as being he thinks there's a good chance they give it [the RB1 job] back to McGahee OR to another RB they bring in.However, you saying his objective is now clear, then following that with "zero chance of happening" is ridiculous. You deride him for thinking he meant there is a good chance they give the job back to McGahee, but then state there's a "zero chance" of that (giving the job back to McGahee) happening? It seems that your objective is pretty clear.

That is a very persuasive point. Good to see you came back with your strongest, most well thought out, reasoned argument.

I'm done arguing my point. I'll let Knowshon to my talking (hopefully not this week though as I face him) However, I fully expect him to be the starter next seaon in Denver and be a top 12 ppr RB. Hopefully I can pick him up cheap for some league mates with your line of thinking.Look forward to bumping this next season.

 

[VikingFrog]

Moreno gets shut down this week versus Cleveland.

 

[devouredbychaos]

Moreno gets shut down this week versus Cleveland.

Please explain how you came to this conclusion.

 

[Bayhawks]

Good chance they give it back to a 32 year old back coming off a knee injury? Lol... I no longer will read what you have to say on the subject as your objective is now clear. Really a silly statement and zero chance of happening.Will they draft a back or bring in a dwill to hurt Moreno value, possibly, idk but your out of your element donnie

I read his statement as being he thinks there's a good chance they give it [the RB1 job] back to McGahee OR to another RB they bring in.However, you saying his objective is now clear, then following that with "zero chance of happening" is ridiculous. You deride him for thinking he meant there is a good chance they give the job back to McGahee, but then state there's a "zero chance" of that (giving the job back to McGahee) happening? It seems that your objective is pretty clear.

That is a very persuasive point. Good to see you came back with your strongest, most well thought out, reasoned argument.

I'm done arguing my point. I'll let Knowshon to my talking (hopefully not this week though as I face him) However, I fully expect him to be the starter next seaon in Denver and be a top 12 ppr RB. Hopefully I can pick him up cheap for some league mates with your line of thinking.Look forward to bumping this next season.

Fair enough. But, as you said, you "fully expect him [Moreno] to be the starter next seaon [sic] in Denver and be a top 12 ppr RB;" yet you've given NOTHING to support this other than your gut/opinion/feeling, etc. Yet, you ridicule another poster who posts his gut/opinion/feeling, etc because it happens to differ from yours. A little hypocritical, no?

 

[VikingFrog]

Moreno gets shut down this week versus Cleveland.

Please explain how you came to this conclusion.

Couple too many dirty martinis.

 

[Bayhawks]

Okay so opinions vary on this guy all over the place. Looks like some people will chalk his success to fresh legs ect... However I do not and want to get opinions of what owners would wan't in return this offseason.

IMHO, the Golden Rule of any "comeback" type story as it applies to dynasty is to start looking at the contracts. IMHO, if fantasy players looked more intensively at the real life player contracts and their implications, then many of the moves of that respective front office become inherently more predictable. Moreno highlights what was right and what was wrong under the old CBA and system. He signed a 5 year deal with a team option for a 6th year in 2009. This is great for a player in his situation, who struggles a bit but since most of the guaranteed money is hit upfront, the player becomes a cheaper sunk cost towards the end of his non option contract. Where the system fails is a situation like Logan Mankins, who was good enough to start as a rookie and good enough to grade top ten in his position by his second year. For players like this, the old system delayed free agency, robbing them of prime earning years on the open market compared to the new system. Here is the rub, the mix of two systems, for the short term, will cause a lot of personnel decisions to be tough ones for the next few years. Peyton Manning signed a contract that basically had an escape clause after year 1 ( to show regard for his fused neck) but after that, vests him for the next two seasons, at minimum. Manning has had a great year, so clearly the Broncos are going to lock him into the next two season ( 2014 and 2015 at minimum) Here's the problem. Ryan Clady, the left tackle, is up for free agency at the end of the season. Von Miller, someone you could put into the argument for DPOY this year and for the foreseeable future is finishing his 2nd year in the new system, with four year contracts. Teams looking to reup guys in the new system are looking to cash them at some point in Year 3, locking in that year 3 at that low rookie base then tearing up year 4 and paying out larger sums of guaranteed money on a multi year contract. The exchange is simple. Earlier guaranteed money for security and faster earning towards your market value in exchange for some type of home town discount on that contract. Here's the dynasty rub on Moreno, IMHO. If you feel his success is predicated on being in a Peyton Manning offense, then the time to move/sell him is this offseason and most ricky tick and the reasoning to acquire him should be for a one year rental and implied price only. If you don't, then you will be banking on Moreno being 27, entering his typical decline phase, and finding his way to an ideal RB situation for him and a starting slot in 2014. Do you want to pay a team option of 5 million when you could possibly run out a 2nd round pick or a 3rd round pick and get the same production for under a million dollars when you already choking out from paying Manning, Clady and Miller, along with other holds on the rest of your roster? Other than the almost defunct full back postion, half back carries the lowest positional value of all the offensive skill positions. It's nice to get a Trent Richardson or a Doug Martin, but an Alfred Morris, Daryl Richardson and Robert Turbin would do nicely with starters snaps and opportunities. The same isn't true for a Von Miller or a Ryan Clady. Those players are simply much harder to replace than Moreno. Moreno for dynasty is like a marginal looking chick who managed to improve her looks just enough and decided she wanted to do porn at age 25. The ride might be smooth for the short term, but you can never take back the mileage.

I agree with much of what you are saying.If Manning passes a physical in March, his next two year's salaries become guaranteed, & based on his play (& barring any unforeseen injuries), he's going to be a Bronco for the next 2 seasons, minimum. The interesting thing is that if he is on the roster at the end of season 3, his year 4 contract is guaranteed (is that end of week 17, when the Broncos are eliminated from playoffs, or a specific end of NFL season date?), and the same goes for season 5 (on roster at end of season 4, year 5 guaranteed). So, with that being said, I think it's almost a lock that he has 2 more years, and very possible that he has 4 more years in Denver.I also agree that the Broncos are going to want to re-sign Clady and Miller before their contracts expire.So, where does that leave Moreno? As has been stated previously in this thread, a lot depends on how the rest of Moreno's "audition" goes the rest of this season/post-season. If McGahee doesn't return for the AFCC or Super Bowl (assuming the Broncos make it that far), and Moreno plays well throughout that stretch, I could see the Broncos cutting McGahee and keeping Moreno, saving the $800K for next year. If Moreno plays well next year, they may want to re-structure his contract, allowing them to keep him. If he does that, then you could get 3-4 years out of Moreno as a RB in a "Peyton Manning" offense. That, however, is the best case-scenario. You would need all/most of these things to take place:Moreno would have to demonstrate that he can be relied upon during this years' stretch run,Manning would have to play (at a high level, for 3-4 more years, Moreno (and his agent) would have to realize that his value is dependent on being on a team with Peyton Manning (and negotiate accordingly), and the Broncos would need to be able to get a deal done with Moreno that works for them, so they can sign their other (higher priority guys) as well.Depending on the cost, Moreno could be a valuable dynasty add. At the same time, he could bring valuable picks/players to you in a trade. It really depends on how you think it will play out in Denver (or how your trade partner thinks it will play out). With the rather weak looking 2013 draft (as far as RBs go), I don't think I'd be inclined to trade him for a 2013 1st-rounder, but I wouldn't say he's untradeable.

 

[Billy Ball Thorton]

You know Moreno had a 1000 yards w/o manning. You tie his success to manning only but last time I checked those are Moreno legs doing the running. Before you say manning is keeping the box clean ect, you might want to check how many broken tackles he has, and watch him play.

The argument that Moreno is only good as long as manning Is around, is a tired ### argument. He needed to grow up a little bit and did so.

 

[nb009]

You know Moreno had a 1000 yards w/o manning. You tie his success to manning only but last time I checked those are Moreno legs doing the running. Before you say manning is keeping the box clean ect, you might want to check how many broken tackles he has, and watch him play. The argument that Moreno is only good as long as manning Is around, is a tired ### argument. He needed to grow up a little bit and did so.

To be fair, I don't think Moreno ever eclipsed 1,000 yards (he came close, but never eclipsed that milestone). In addition, over these last four games, he's on pace for about 1,600 yards and 400 yards receiving, which is way better than the 1,000 you're citing (which is what a guy like Vick Ballard is on pace for).

 

[Bayhawks]

You know Moreno had a 1000 yards w/o manning. You tie his success to manning only but last time I checked those are Moreno legs doing the running. Before you say manning is keeping the box clean ect, you might want to check how many broken tackles he has, and watch him play.

The argument that Moreno is only good as long as manning Is around, is a tired ### argument. He needed to grow up a little bit and did so.

You know that Moreno has NEVER had a 1000 yard rushing season, don't you? If you are talking about 1000 total yards, or 1000 yards TOTAL in his career, okay, but those aren't really signficant benchmarks, so who cares?Moreno is not an explosive back. That is not a tired ### argument, it is a fact. He doesn't have Chris Johnson-like speed, Adrian Peterson-like power, Darren Sproles-like quickness. He is not a bad RB, but he is not a great RB. He can run with a little power, he has a little speed, he is a good pass catcher, he is a good blocker. In a Peyton Manning offense, that kind of RB can be very valuable, FF-wise.

Look at it this way: if Moreno was the RB in Minny, with Ponder at QB, or in Tennessee, with Locker at QB, would he be nearly as intriguing as a FF RB?

 

[Billy Ball Thorton]

You know Moreno had a 1000 yards w/o manning. You tie his success to manning only but last time I checked those are Moreno legs doing the running. Before you say manning is keeping the box clean ect, you might want to check how many broken tackles he has, and watch him play.

The argument that Moreno is only good as long as manning Is around, is a tired ### argument. He needed to grow up a little bit and did so.

You know that Moreno has NEVER had a 1000 yard rushing season, don't you? If you are talking about 1000 total yards, or 1000 yards TOTAL in his career, okay, but those aren't really signficant benchmarks, so who cares?Moreno is not an explosive back. That is not a tired ### argument, it is a fact. He doesn't have Chris Johnson-like speed, Adrian Peterson-like power, Darren Sproles-like quickness. He is not a bad RB, but he is not a great RB. He can run with a little power, he has a little speed, he is a good pass catcher, he is a good blocker. In a Peyton Manning offense, that kind of RB can be very valuable, FF-wise.

Look at it this way: if Moreno was the RB in Minny, with Ponder at QB, or in Tennessee, with Locker at QB, would he be nearly as intriguing as a FF RB?

I love how you use a guy like all day as an example, he's only on pace for a 2000 yard season. Chris Johnson speed? Who else besides him has that? Sproles. Quickness? Again I ask who else has that?

Moreno looks like a very solid rb right now. He will never do what Peterson is doing nor will he take it to the house like Chris Johnson can but few can. All I'm trying to say is he looks very good as an all around back. He's catches well, blocks well and has had a back for finding hole s nag getting decent yards. He will never be those backs above but that's ok.

To the guy saying Ballard is on pace for 1600 yards, what are you talking about? I guess many could be on pace if you use their last game or last two.

 

[nb009]

You know Moreno had a 1000 yards w/o manning. You tie his success to manning only but last time I checked those are Moreno legs doing the running. Before you say manning is keeping the box clean ect, you might want to check how many broken tackles he has, and watch him play.

The argument that Moreno is only good as long as manning Is around, is a tired ### argument. He needed to grow up a little bit and did so.

To be fair, I don't think Moreno ever eclipsed 1,000 yards (he came close, but never eclipsed that milestone). In addition, over these last four games, he's on pace for about 1,600 yards and 400 yards receiving, which is way better than the 1,000 you're citing (which is what a guy like Vick Ballard is on pace for).

To the guy saying Ballard is on pace for 1600 yards, what are you talking about? I guess many could be on pace if you use their last game or last two.

Reading is fundamental. Since becoming a starter, Ballard is on pace for 1,000 yards, and he has been nothing more than a mediocre fantasy option at RB. So, who cares if Moreno rushed for 1,000 yards (even though he barely missed it) prior to Manning? It's nothing in comparison to what he's doing now.

 

[cstu]

With the rather weak looking 2013 draft (as far as RBs go), I don't think I'd be inclined to trade him for a 2013 1st-rounder, but I wouldn't say he's untradeable.

Right now I see at least 12 guys in the draft (assuming the expected underclassmen come out) that I would prefer over Moreno.

 

[Bayhawks]

You know Moreno had a 1000 yards w/o manning. You tie his success to manning only but last time I checked those are Moreno legs doing the running. Before you say manning is keeping the box clean ect, you might want to check how many broken tackles he has, and watch him play.

The argument that Moreno is only good as long as manning Is around, is a tired ### argument. He needed to grow up a little bit and did so.

You know that Moreno has NEVER had a 1000 yard rushing season, don't you? If you are talking about 1000 total yards, or 1000 yards TOTAL in his career, okay, but those aren't really signficant benchmarks, so who cares?Moreno is not an explosive back. That is not a tired ### argument, it is a fact. He doesn't have Chris Johnson-like speed, Adrian Peterson-like power, Darren Sproles-like quickness. He is not a bad RB, but he is not a great RB. He can run with a little power, he has a little speed, he is a good pass catcher, he is a good blocker. In a Peyton Manning offense, that kind of RB can be very valuable, FF-wise.

Look at it this way: if Moreno was the RB in Minny, with Ponder at QB, or in Tennessee, with Locker at QB, would he be nearly as intriguing as a FF RB?

I love how you use a guy like all day as an example, he's only on pace for a 2000 yard season. Chris Johnson speed? Who else besides him has that? Sproles. Quickness? Again I ask who else has that?

Moreno looks like a very solid rb right now. He will never do what Peterson is doing nor will he take it to the house like Chris Johnson can but few can. All I'm trying to say is he looks very good as an all around back. He's catches well, blocks well and has had a back for finding hole s nag getting decent yards. He will never be those backs above but that's ok.

To the guy saying Ballard is on pace for 1600 yards, what are you talking about? I guess many could be on pace if you use their last game or last two.

I'm not sure why you are taking such an argumentative tone, yet you are stating virtually the same thing as I am. "Moreno looks like a very solid rb rignt now." That's exactly what I (and others) have been stating, yet you seem annoyed when others say this.

The reason I brought up those RBs is because they are special, and would likely have success in other offenses besides the ones they play in (Sproles is the most "iffy" of that group, but, if used as a pass-catcher, I imagine he'd still do fine outside of NO). Moreno would likely struggle in many situations outside of Denver, and I can't imagine he'd be an automatic start against teams like SF, Chi, Mia, etc. But, "right now," with Peyton Manning as his QB (preventing D's from loading the box), with Denver's O-line opening holes, and against average to below average run D's, he's looking good.

 

[Bayhawks]

With the rather weak looking 2013 draft (as far as RBs go), I don't think I'd be inclined to trade him for a 2013 1st-rounder, but I wouldn't say he's untradeable.

Right now I see at least 12 guys in the draft (assuming the expected underclassmen come out) that I would prefer over Moreno.

12 RBs? Care to share who they are?

 

[MAC_32]

With the rather weak looking 2013 draft (as far as RBs go), I don't think I'd be inclined to trade him for a 2013 1st-rounder, but I wouldn't say he's untradeable.

Right now I see at least 12 guys in the draft (assuming the expected underclassmen come out) that I would prefer over Moreno.

12 RBs? Care to share who they are?

Not all of the below, but some combo of them probablyGiovani BernardMike GillisleeStepfan TaylorMontee BallAndre EllingtonJoseph RandleEddie LacyMarcus LattimoreMichael DyerJohnathan FranklinRay GrahamKenjon BarnerZac StacyChristine MichaelLe'Veon BellKnile DavisDenver has more pressing needs than RB though, they will go into 2013 with McGahee, Moreno, and Hillman. Probably add a UDFA and bring Fannin back to battle too. I don't see RB being addressed again until 2014, at least.

 

[Bayhawks]

With the rather weak looking 2013 draft (as far as RBs go), I don't think I'd be inclined to trade him for a 2013 1st-rounder, but I wouldn't say he's untradeable.

Right now I see at least 12 guys in the draft (assuming the expected underclassmen come out) that I would prefer over Moreno.

12 RBs? Care to share who they are?

Not all of the below, but some combo of them probablyGiovani BernardMike GillisleeStepfan TaylorMontee BallAndre EllingtonJoseph RandleEddie LacyMarcus LattimoreMichael DyerJohnathan FranklinRay GrahamKenjon BarnerZac StacyChristine MichaelLe'Veon BellKnile DavisDenver has more pressing needs than RB though, they will go into 2013 with McGahee, Moreno, and Hillman. Probably add a UDFA and bring Fannin back to battle too. I don't see RB being addressed again until 2014, at least.

I haven't done a whole lot of draft prep yet, but I don't see any of these guys going in the 1st round, and no way all of them go in the 2nd. That being said, while the Broncos might love to have Manning play 4 more years, I doubt they are counting on it. They have a limited window for the chance to win the SB, and I'd be surprised if they drafted a rookie RB with the intent of replacing McGahee or Moreno as their lead RB. (Not saying they won't draft a RB that could replace one/both of them, just that I doubt they will have that as their plan). I would expect them to try to get players that can contribute in the next few years, to try to capitalize on their time with Manning.

 

[MAC_32]

I'd say several of them will go on day 2, one or two will probably open some organization's eyes enough to pick them towards the end of day 1.

Not saying they are better than Moreno, but they may be close enough to make enough sense to replace Moreno. Both him and McGahee have one year left on their deals and RB more than any other position is a young man's position. Do the Broncos feel comfortable enough in Hillman to ignore RB this year? Don't know, maybe they feel other areas are more pressing...but they don't have control over anyone other than Hillman beyond 2013 so the correct move from a control pov may be to add a day 2 back so there's 2 in house darts beyond 2013.

 

[Steelers4Life]

With the rather weak looking 2013 draft (as far as RBs go), I don't think I'd be inclined to trade him for a 2013 1st-rounder, but I wouldn't say he's untradeable.

Right now I see at least 12 guys in the draft (assuming the expected underclassmen come out) that I would prefer over Moreno.

12 RBs? Care to share who they are?

Not all of the below, but some combo of them probablyGiovani BernardMike GillisleeStepfan TaylorMontee BallAndre EllingtonJoseph RandleEddie LacyMarcus LattimoreMichael DyerJohnathan FranklinRay GrahamKenjon BarnerZac StacyChristine MichaelLe'Veon BellKnile DavisDenver has more pressing needs than RB though, they will go into 2013 with McGahee, Moreno, and Hillman. Probably add a UDFA and bring Fannin back to battle too. I don't see RB being addressed again until 2014, at least.

Moreno was a better and more accomplished college runner than just about any of those guys, and he'll head into 2013 with a great shot at a featured RB role. He's still a young guy that has plenty of talent even if he's not a game-changer. There are only 1 or 2 guys on that list who I'd take over him, and that's only if they land in a good situation. There's a reason only a couple of those guys will even be drafted in the first two days.I get that people have been burned by Moreno in the past, but they need to let it go and move on from it. Knowshon sure has. If you spend any time watching him at all this year, you'll see a much more decisive, straight-line runner than he was before.

 

[Bayhawks]

I'd say several of them will go on day 2, one or two will probably open some organization's eyes enough to pick them towards the end of day 1.

Not saying they are better than Moreno, but they may be close enough to make enough sense to replace Moreno. Both him and McGahee have one year left on their deals and RB more than any other position is a young man's position. Do the Broncos feel comfortable enough in Hillman to ignore RB this year? Don't know, maybe they feel other areas are more pressing...but they don't have control over anyone other than Hillman beyond 2013 so the correct move from a control pov may be to add a day 2 back so there's 2 in house darts beyond 2013.

Agreed; but as I stated, I don't see them drafting a guy with the intent to replace Moreno or McGahee (whichever one they have "slotted" as their RB1). Could they draft a guy who impresses enough to replace those guys? Sure, I just don't see them feeling comfortable taking the risk with an unproven RB, when the window with Peyton is so small.

 

[MAC_32]

I'd say several of them will go on day 2, one or two will probably open some organization's eyes enough to pick them towards the end of day 1.

Not saying they are better than Moreno, but they may be close enough to make enough sense to replace Moreno. Both him and McGahee have one year left on their deals and RB more than any other position is a young man's position. Do the Broncos feel comfortable enough in Hillman to ignore RB this year? Don't know, maybe they feel other areas are more pressing...but they don't have control over anyone other than Hillman beyond 2013 so the correct move from a control pov may be to add a day 2 back so there's 2 in house darts beyond 2013.

Agreed; but as I stated, I don't see them drafting a guy with the intent to replace Moreno or McGahee (whichever one they have "slotted" as their RB1). Could they draft a guy who impresses enough to replace those guys? Sure, I just don't see them feeling comfortable taking the risk with an unproven RB, when the window with Peyton is so small.

Drafting for now instead of both for now and for the future is how the Colts got in trouble, they just got saved by Lord Savior Luck. The Broncos need to draft for now and for later, McGahee is not a later option, Moreno might be. Entirely possible Moreno stays and gets one more shot with Hillman and day 2 guy behind him, send McGahee elsewhere or cut him if there isn't a buyer. I doubt they keep all 3 and draft a new guy too, early anyway, so...I guess the greater wildcard is McGahee, not Moreno.Regardless, unless there's a trade partner I can't see McGahee going anywhere until after the draft.

 

[MAC_32]

With the rather weak looking 2013 draft (as far as RBs go), I don't think I'd be inclined to trade him for a 2013 1st-rounder, but I wouldn't say he's untradeable.

Right now I see at least 12 guys in the draft (assuming the expected underclassmen come out) that I would prefer over Moreno.

12 RBs? Care to share who they are?

Not all of the below, but some combo of them probablyGiovani BernardMike GillisleeStepfan TaylorMontee BallAndre EllingtonJoseph RandleEddie LacyMarcus LattimoreMichael DyerJohnathan FranklinRay GrahamKenjon BarnerZac StacyChristine MichaelLe'Veon BellKnile DavisDenver has more pressing needs than RB though, they will go into 2013 with McGahee, Moreno, and Hillman. Probably add a UDFA and bring Fannin back to battle too. I don't see RB being addressed again until 2014, at least.

Moreno was a better and more accomplished college runner than just about any of those guys, and he'll head into 2013 with a great shot at a featured RB role. He's still a young guy that has plenty of talent even if he's not a game-changer. There are only 1 or 2 guys on that list who I'd take over him, and that's only if they land in a good situation. There's a reason only a couple of those guys will even be drafted in the first two days.I get that people have been burned by Moreno in the past, but they need to let it go and move on from it. Knowshon sure has. If you spend any time watching him at all this year, you'll see a much more decisive, straight-line runner than he was before.

Several of them will be drafted in the first two days, will the Broncos be one of them? I don't know, but it probably depends more on McGahee than Moreno. Still can't rule it out though. Being a more accomplished runner doesn't mean too much either, it's about what can you do in the NFL and while there aren't feature backs above there are a lot of role players and arguably the biggest issue with Moreno is his lack of distinguishable skill. He was drafted to be the guy, but has shown he can't be, he's good at a lot of things but not great at anything. Get a couple of guys that are great at different things and you'll get more from the RB position than you will be using a guy that's just good at everything.Bad for fantasy, good for the Broncos.

 

[cstu]

With the rather weak looking 2013 draft (as far as RBs go), I don't think I'd be inclined to trade him for a 2013 1st-rounder, but I wouldn't say he's untradeable.

Right now I see at least 12 guys in the draft (assuming the expected underclassmen come out) that I would prefer over Moreno.

12 RBs? Care to share who they are?

No, all positions. Roughly 7 WR's, 4 RB's and a TE.

 

[Bayhawks]

Can I get 80 percent of the production at 20 percent of the cost? This is an enduring personnel question and the reason why older running backs get churned out for drafted rookies all the time.

I agree with a lot of what you posted, but I'm not sure how accurate this statement is. I know it is a common perception, but I don't know if perception matches reality. I can't think of that many examples where a veteran RB, who was performing well, was "churned out" for a drafted rookie, primarily for $$$ reasons.

Thomas Jones had a great 2009, and was "replaced" by S Greene, but Greene didn't really run with the baton.

The Chargers let LT go in 2009 in favor of R Mathews, but LT seemed to have "hit the wall" in 2009, and again, Mathews didn't really fill his shoes.

Are there any real examples of a team replacing a proven, still successful, veteran with a rookie (or young) RB for $$$ reasons? And were those examples successful?

Again, the Broncos are all in with Peyton Manning. Taking a risk that a young RB will be able to replace a successful Moreno (assuming he is successful next year) might not be in their best interest.

 

[Billy Ball Thorton]

Can I get 80 percent of the production at 20 percent of the cost? This is an enduring personnel question and the reason why older running backs get churned out for drafted rookies all the time.

I agree with a lot of what you posted, but I'm not sure how accurate this statement is. I know it is a common perception, but I don't know if perception matches reality. I can't think of that many examples where a veteran RB, who was performing well, was "churned out" for a drafted rookie, primarily for $$$ reasons.

Thomas Jones had a great 2009, and was "replaced" by S Greene, but Greene didn't really run with the baton.

The Chargers let LT go in 2009 in favor of R Mathews, but LT seemed to have "hit the wall" in 2009, and again, Mathews didn't really fill his shoes.

Are there any real examples of a team replacing a proven, still successful, veteran with a rookie (or young) RB for $$$ reasons? And were those examples successful?

Again, the Broncos are all in with Peyton Manning. Taking a risk that a young RB will be able to replace a successful Moreno (assuming he is successful next year) might not be in their best interest.

Good post. I apologize for my tone earlier.

 

[cvnpoka]

i think its far from a given that the broncos will prefer moreno over mcgahee.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

With the rather weak looking 2013 draft (as far as RBs go), I don't think I'd be inclined to trade him for a 2013 1st-rounder, but I wouldn't say he's untradeable.

Right now I see at least 12 guys in the draft (assuming the expected underclassmen come out) that I would prefer over Moreno.

12 RBs? Care to share who they are?

Not all of the below, but some combo of them probablyGiovani BernardMike GillisleeStepfan TaylorMontee BallAndre EllingtonJoseph RandleEddie LacyMarcus LattimoreMichael DyerJohnathan FranklinRay GrahamKenjon BarnerZac StacyChristine MichaelLe'Veon BellKnile DavisDenver has more pressing needs than RB though, they will go into 2013 with McGahee, Moreno, and Hillman. Probably add a UDFA and bring Fannin back to battle too. I don't see RB being addressed again until 2014, at least.

Imagine if shanahan got le'veon bell...

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

Its waaaaaaaaay too early for this. If last off-season showed a anything, its that elway Wont hesitate o upgrade/replace a substandard player just because he played well last season down the stretch...

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

Can I get 80 percent of the production at 20 percent of the cost? This is an enduring personnel question and the reason why older running backs get churned out for drafted rookies all the time.

I agree with a lot of what you posted, but I'm not sure how accurate this statement is. I know it is a common perception, but I don't know if perception matches reality. I can't think of that many examples where a veteran RB, who was performing well, was "churned out" for a drafted rookie, primarily for $$$ reasons.

Thomas Jones had a great 2009, and was "replaced" by S Greene, but Greene didn't really run with the baton.

The Chargers let LT go in 2009 in favor of R Mathews, but LT seemed to have "hit the wall" in 2009, and again, Mathews didn't really fill his shoes.

Are there any real examples of a team replacing a proven, still successful, veteran with a rookie (or young) RB for $$$ reasons? And were those examples successful?

Again, the Broncos are all in with Peyton Manning. Taking a risk that a young RB will be able to replace a successful Moreno (assuming he is successful next year) might not be in their best interest.

Especially at the RB position, I'd be more worried about them drafting another stud back to share the load with him. Pittsburgh/Carolina are great examples of how too much team depth can crush a talented backs FF value.

 

[duaneok66]

a rookie is not going to come in and steal any sizable portion of carries (at least in 2013).

 

[FF Ninja]

Especially at the RB position, I'd be more worried about them drafting another stud back to share the load with him. Pittsburgh/Carolina are great examples of how too much team depth can crush a talented backs FF value.

I'm sure someone will emerge at some point, but right now no one in this draft class screams "stud". Plus, giving significant carries to a rookie is not the John Fox way.Also, the Manning/Tebow comparison in the previous post is silly. That was pretty obviously a COMPLETELY different situation. Gimmick QB vs. Hall of Famer...

 

[32 Counter Pass]

Great point about Fox's history. My view is that Moreno was acquired cheaply (off waivers) and produced as a solid #1RB down the stretch so his potential upside worth the roster spot. I will float him in some trade offers this off season for a player I like even more. If there are no takers then I will hold him and see what transpires.