Moss way better than Owens? (1 Viewer)

[jdoggydogg]

The guy that I co-host a FF radio show with during the season used to be a football scout. I was listening to his interview with the Raiders' SF Chronicle beat writer, and he said, "Terrell Owens couldn't carry Randy Moss' jockstrap."

I was so amazed at that statement that I called him and said, "You really think they are that far apart?" He said that Moss is a far better route runner, is faster, and has far better hands.

He has an archive at KNBR.com. You can hear the interview here.

Discuss amongst yourselves.

 

[Phlash]

They're both good at different parts of the game.Both have good speed, but Randy Moss has great speed.Both are good at breaking tackles after the catch, but Owens is great after the catch.Both have spectacular hands.Both are incredible red-zone options.I'd say they both change the way the game is played.

 

[Fallerjw]

I'll take both on my team

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

I easily take Moss, but Owens is definitely my next pick.

 

[gman8343]

Moss is faster, but Owens works harder.

 

[15325]

Physically, Moss is a better talent.Owens brings more to a football team.

 

[Banger]

Moss is faster, but Owens works harder.

Agreed. Physical talent wise Moss is tops but what Owens lacks in talent he makes up in work ethic.

 

[jcjets]

Moss maybe faster, but he quits after he gets the ball. Too many times he runs out of bounds after the catch. He always avoids contact and doesn't go for the extra yard. Owens wants to score on every play. Rarely does he run out of bounds, rather he tries to break the tackle and get more yardage.I'd take Owens over Moss if I was running a team.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

Moss maybe faster, but he quits after he gets the ball. Too many times he runs out of bounds after the catch. He always avoids contact and doesn't go for the extra yard.

Owens wants to score on every play. Rarely does he run out of bounds, rather he tries to break the tackle and get more yardage.

I'd take Owens over Moss if I was running a team.

They are both self confident WR who speak their mind and sometimes get themselves in trouble. They can both be big distractions off the field so Owens working harder then Moss has no bearing on my decision. Moss' numbers can't be ignored. The guy just produces like no other WR of his time. Owens is definitely 2nd fiddle to Moss. Both great WR but Moss is special. I have never been a Moss fan but the guy is just an amazing WR talent. Minnesota is really going to miss him more then they think on O this year. Don't make reference to how they won a few games without Moss last year. This year will show important Moss was to Culpeppers game.

 

[cstu]

Moss is more talented physically, but a guy like Owens that worships Michael Jordan is going to work hard to be his best. Owens also cares more about winning than Moss does and that is the one reason that makes me want Owens over Moss.

 

[derek19]

"I'll play when i wanna play" NUFF SAID

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

I have already admited to Owens working harder. But to say Owens wants to win more is just a guessing game. I would really like to see Moss' numbers if he wanted to win then

 

[lipster26]

Moss is more talented physically, but a guy like Owens that worships Michael Jordan is going to work hard to be his best. Owens also cares more about winning than Moss does and that is the one reason that makes me want Owens over Moss.

Moss needs a strong armed QB to get him the ball, while Owens had Jeff Garcia throwing him the ball for 5 years. He made Garcia look better than he actually was. Moss does the same thing in a different way. If you want a verticle passing game than Moss is the better WR. But if you want a playmaker that can turn a a short pass into a Td than Owens is your guy. He's perfectly suited for the west coast offense that relies on yards after catch. I think he's more versatile than Moss, so I would take Owens who can break tackles and can go deep with the best of them.

 

[cstu]

I have already admited to Owens working harder. But to say Owens wants to win more is just a guessing game.

I would really like to see Moss' numbers if he wanted to win then

Walking off the field during a game is not a good way to show that you care about winner. Or saying you'll play when you feel it. Etc.

 

[Jason Wood]

Obviously I have some homer bias here, but if I were to compare them:

Route Running -- Push; they are both among the best route runners in the league, with fluid hips and a disciplined approach. One may be slightly better than the other, but they're both elite

Hands -- Moss has better hands. TO is prone to more drops than other elite WRs, largely because he's focused on taking the ball upfield and sometimes that impacts him as he's trying to make a play before he's got the ball.
Speed -- Moss is clearly superior in this regard. I don't think there's any question Moss is the fastest HOF caliber receiver in league history.
YAC -- Owens is among the best YAC receivers in league history, a slight edge to Moss
Blocking -- No contest, Moss is an able but often unwilling blocker, Owens is the best blocking receiver this side of Hines Ward
Red Zone -- Two of the best in league history, Moss is the more prolific scorer but in the red zone it's splitting hairs
Toughness -- Can't really kill Moss on this although I don't see how any WR in the league can lay claim to this title after what TO did in terms of getting back for the Super BowlPersonally, I'll take Owens because he's a better all around player who never takes a play off, but I don't think anyone is going to argue too vehemently with the other side of the debate either.

 

[Barry]

I still remember Owens dropping alot of passes in SF. Moss easily.

 

[Fallerjw]

Obviously I have some homer bias here, but if I were to compare them:

Route Running -- Push; they are both among the best route runners in the league, with fluid hips and a disciplined approach. One may be slightly better than the other, but they're both elite

Hands -- Moss has better hands. TO is prone to more drops than other elite WRs, largely because he's focused on taking the ball upfield and sometimes that impacts him as he's trying to make a play before he's got the ball.
Speed -- Moss is clearly superior in this regard. I don't think there's any question Moss is the fastest HOF caliber receiver in league history.
YAC -- Owens is among the best YAC receivers in league history, a slight edge to Moss
Blocking -- No contest, Moss is an able but often unwilling blocker, Owens is the best blocking receiver this side of Hines Ward
Red Zone -- Two of the best in league history, Moss is the more prolific scorer but in the red zone it's splitting hairs
Toughness -- Can't really kill Moss on this although I don't see how any WR in the league can lay claim to this title after what TO did in terms of getting back for the Super BowlPersonally, I'll take Owens because he's a better all around player who never takes a play off, but I don't think anyone is going to argue too vehemently with the other side of the debate either.

All good points. It's not completely out of the question for Moss to turn his attitude around in Oakland. If he were to do that, I'd give him the edge. Otherwise give me Owens if I have to pick one.

 

[Family Matters]

Obviously I have some homer bias here, but if I were to compare them:

Route Running -- Push; they are both among the best route runners in the league, with fluid hips and a disciplined approach. One may be slightly better than the other, but they're both elite

Hands -- Moss has better hands. TO is prone to more drops than other elite WRs, largely because he's focused on taking the ball upfield and sometimes that impacts him as he's trying to make a play before he's got the ball.
Speed -- Moss is clearly superior in this regard. I don't think there's any question Moss is the fastest HOF caliber receiver in league history.
YAC -- Owens is among the best YAC receivers in league history, a slight edge to Moss
Blocking -- No contest, Moss is an able but often unwilling blocker, Owens is the best blocking receiver this side of Hines Ward
Red Zone -- Two of the best in league history, Moss is the more prolific scorer but in the red zone it's splitting hairs
Toughness -- Can't really kill Moss on this although I don't see how any WR in the league can lay claim to this title after what TO did in terms of getting back for the Super BowlPersonally, I'll take Owens because he's a better all around player who never takes a play off, but I don't think anyone is going to argue too vehemently with the other side of the debate either.

I won't argue what you've said. Another point that should be mentioned is that Owens has superior strength and ability to avoid jams at the line. Owens can out muscle any DB for a ball. Moss can likely out jump him but Owens is stronger. Owens has excellent ability to avoid jams at the line. When DB's try he just brushes then aside. They rarely try this with Moss because he just burns by them if the jam is unsuccessful.All in all, I would take either one of these 2 for their skills are rare and they are 2 of the best we'll ever see.

 

[Bri]

Obviously I have some homer bias here, but if I were to compare them:

Hands -- Moss has better hands. TO is prone to more drops than other elite WRs, largely because he's focused on taking the ball upfield and sometimes that impacts him as he's trying to make a play before he's got the ball.

Speed -- Moss is clearly superior in this regard. I don't think there's any question Moss is the fastest HOF caliber receiver in league history.

Isaac Bruce(and others) were fast enough to be in and/or qualify for the Olympics. Hayes? Some oldie was a gold medal winner.Sorry but, how is that being focussed? On such a play, isn't the whole purpose of him being on the field to catch the ball? I think that's a homer excusing his team's star kinda comment.

I'm surprised you didn't mention Owens strength.

IMO if we could mix players of different eras, Moss would just happen to not play hard against Ronnie Lott and Owens would be up for it and probably get his jaw broken. For some reason, I like Owens more for that.

 

[Chaka]

Fantasy wise there is no discussion here. Moss outproduces Owens.Football wise I am surprised that no one talked about Owens reputation for aligator arming balls in San Fran. It's not like Garcia didn't put the ball where it should have been, he is unquestionably an accurate passer. Owens had a great year last season and is a tough guy, great wide receiver etc, but I don't see the distinctions in heart that everyone is talking about. Dude was a grouser, dude was a cancer, dude was a distraction, dude thought he was bigger than the team. But after one big year in Phili all is forgiven and apparetnly forgotten.At least Moss is honest when he quits. T.O. plays himself up and when he quits it is everyone else's fault.I'll take Moss.

 

[-OZ-]

I realize Moss has performed well even without Culpepper, but has anyone calculated his stats minus C-Pep and compared them to TO without McNabb? I'm simply guessing they're closer than we might have thought, TO may even be better.What's the betting line on who wins a Super Bowl first?

 

[Bull Dozier]

I realize Moss has performed well even without Culpepper, but has anyone calculated his stats minus C-Pep and compared them to TO without McNabb? I'm simply guessing they're closer than we might have thought, TO may even be better.

What's the betting line on who wins a Super Bowl first?

Nope. In 2001 and 2003, Moss played significant time with the Vikes backup (3 games in 2001 with Todd Bouman, and 3 games in 2004 with Gud Frerotte). His combined line for those six games; 38 receptions, 784 yards, and 9 TDs. Thats a per game average of 6.3 receptions, 130.7 yards, and 1.5 TDs. For a season that would be 101 receptions, 2090 yards, and 24 TDs. In those six games, in four of them he had 140+ yards, the other two were in the 80s. He plays fine without Culpepper.***I didn't go back and look at how he fared with Cunningham, Brad Johnson, and Jeff George since I don't think the argument can be made that those are not decent QBs.***

 

[-OZ-]

I realize Moss has performed well even without Culpepper, but has anyone calculated his stats minus C-Pep and compared them to TO without McNabb? I'm simply guessing they're closer than we might have thought, TO may even be better.

What's the betting line on who wins a Super Bowl first?

Nope. In 2001 and 2003, Moss played significant time with the Vikes backup (3 games in 2001 with Todd Bouman, and 3 games in 2004 with Gud Frerotte). His combined line for those six games; 38 receptions, 784 yards, and 9 TDs. Thats a per game average of 6.3 receptions, 130.7 yards, and 1.5 TDs. For a season that would be 101 receptions, 2090 yards, and 24 TDs. In those six games, in four of them he had 140+ yards, the other two were in the 80s. He plays fine without Culpepper.***I didn't go back and look at how he fared with Cunningham, Brad Johnson, and Jeff George since I don't think the argument can be made that those are not decent QBs.***

Ok, what defenses did he play against? I mean if people use that argument against Culpepper... I assume your 2004 line was actually 2003, as Pep missed no games last year.

According to what I have, Pep missed 2 games in 03, Moss did have 5 TDs in those games. His bigger game was 172 and 3 TDs against San Fran, I don't really remember how good their D was that year. Atlanta was the other game, and they struggled in 2003. So, what does this tell us...

I'll still reserve judgment until we see what Moss does for a year with a less than studly QB. I think it's fair to say Garcia = Collins, with a slight edge to Collins, but close enough.

 

[Bull Dozier]

I realize Moss has performed well even without Culpepper, but has anyone calculated his stats minus C-Pep and compared them to TO without McNabb? I'm simply guessing they're closer than we might have thought, TO may even be better.

What's the betting line on who wins a Super Bowl first?

Nope. In 2001 and 2003, Moss played significant time with the Vikes backup (3 games in 2001 with Todd Bouman, and 3 games in 2004 with Gud Frerotte). His combined line for those six games; 38 receptions, 784 yards, and 9 TDs. Thats a per game average of 6.3 receptions, 130.7 yards, and 1.5 TDs. For a season that would be 101 receptions, 2090 yards, and 24 TDs. In those six games, in four of them he had 140+ yards, the other two were in the 80s. He plays fine without Culpepper.***I didn't go back and look at how he fared with Cunningham, Brad Johnson, and Jeff George since I don't think the argument can be made that those are not decent QBs.***

Ok, what defenses did he play against? I mean if people use that argument against Culpepper... I assume your 2004 line was actually 2003, as Pep missed no games last year.

According to what I have, Pep missed 2 games in 03, Moss did have 5 TDs in those games. His bigger game was 172 and 3 TDs against San Fran, I don't really remember how good their D was that year. Atlanta was the other game, and they struggled in 2003. So, what does this tell us...

I'll still reserve judgment until we see what Moss does for a year with a less than studly QB. I think it's fair to say Garcia = Collins, with a slight edge to Collins, but close enough.

You're right, I mean 2003 for that. In the three games with backups, I included the full line for a game in which either Bouman or Frerotte played significantly, and Culpepper played part of the game in a couple of those. Regardless, to those who remember watching those games, Bouman and Frerotte focused on getting the ball to Moss and were able to do so. Neither showed they were that great of a QB anywhere else (Frerotte has been servicible, but nothing special, Bouman hasn't sniffed the field since leaving MN). Of this 6 game sample size, just about every opponent had a relatively bad D. The only good one was Pittsburgh, week 12 of 2001. They were the #7 scoring D that year. Moss had 8-144-1. I think this is ample evidence that Moss has made his QBs look very good over the years.However, I think we can both agree the proof will be in the pudding this year. Oakland, while not great offensively, certainly has enough for Moss to be at his best. They have a strong armed QB, enough quality at the WR position so teams can't triple team Moss the whole game, a proven head coach, and potentially some semblance of a running game. There are no excuses for Moss if he doesn't produce. I'm confident that he will.

 

[lipster26]

Fantasy wise there is no discussion here. Moss outproduces Owens.

I agree, historically Moss is the better fantasy producer. But McNabb to Owens and Collins to Moss is different than Cpepp to Moss and Garcia to Owens. When Owens has McNabb he's still not as good Moss and Cpepp but it's better than Garcia to Owens. I think you'll see a drop in Moss' numbers from year's past which should put them on equal footing.

Owens had a great year last season and is a tough guy, great wide receiver etc, but I don't see the distinctions in heart that everyone is talking about. Dude was a grouser, dude was a cancer, dude was a distraction, dude thought he was bigger than the team. But after one big year in Phili all is forgiven and apparetnly forgotten.

Both are cancers and distractions. It speaks volumes that for all that they accomplished for their former teams they both still got traded and none of their teammates really cared. Cpepp was Moss' friend and he even agreed that people were tired of him. They're equal here too.

At least Moss is honest when he quits. T.O. plays himself up and when he quits it is everyone else's fault.

I don't really think being honest about being a quitter is a good thing. Either way they both act like children. As football players they're both great. As human beings and teammates, they stink.

 

[jcjets]

Lets throw this factor in. Which player makes his teammates play better?I'm going with Owens. If rookies or teammates see him out there practicing early, eating right, and working in the off season, they will follow and get better themselves. When is the last time you heard Moss out on the field practicing early or working late with the ball machine?Neither one of these guys is going to win you a superbowl by themselves. I'll go with Owens to make the team better.Granted Neither is going to make Freedy Mitchell a star.

 

[Bull Dozier]

Lets throw this factor in. Which player makes his teammates play better?

I'm going with Owens. If rookies or teammates see him out there practicing early, eating right, and working in the off season, they will follow and get better themselves.

When is the last time you heard Moss out on the field practicing early or working late with the ball machine?

Neither one of these guys is going to win you a superbowl by themselves. I'll go with Owens to make the team better.

Granted Neither is going to make Freedy Mitchell a star.

Each season since Cris Carter retired, all of the talk going into camp was about how much Moss matured, how he took the younger receivers under his wing, how much his work ethic improved, etc etc. Moss spent his off seasons when Carter was still around, with Carter in Florida. Since then, he's spent them with Culpepper. Moss' off field work ethic gets a bad wrap, cause the bad things he does overshadows it. I'm not saying he's Jerry Rice off the field, but it's not like once the season is over he hits the couch for 6 months.I'll also add that Moss has made Randal Cunningham, Jeff George, Brad Johnson, Todd Bouman, and Gus Frerotte much better (I feel strongly that Daunte Culpepper will be added to that list by this time next year).

 

[jcjets]

Lets throw this factor in.  Which player makes his teammates play better?

I'm going with Owens.  If rookies or teammates see him out there practicing early, eating right, and working in the off season, they will follow and get better themselves. 

When is the last time you heard Moss out on the field practicing early or working late with the ball machine?

Neither one of these guys is going to win you a superbowl by themselves.  I'll go with Owens to make the team better.

Granted Neither is going to make Freedy Mitchell a star.

Each season since Cris Carter retired, all of the talk going into camp was about how much Moss matured, how he took the younger receivers under his wing, how much his work ethic improved, etc etc. Moss spent his off seasons when Carter was still around, with Carter in Florida. Since then, he's spent them with Culpepper. Moss' off field work ethic gets a bad wrap, cause the bad things he does overshadows it. I'm not saying he's Jerry Rice off the field, but it's not like once the season is over he hits the couch for 6 months.I'll also add that Moss has made Randal Cunningham, Jeff George, Brad Johnson, Todd Bouman, and Gus Frerotte much better (I feel strongly that Daunte Culpepper will be added to that list by this time next year).

Whens the last time Owens got pulled over with a joint in his car? During the season I may add.Moss is a great receiver, I'd just rather have Owens on my football team than Moss.

 

[-OZ-]

Lets throw this factor in. Which player makes his teammates play better?

I'm going with Owens. If rookies or teammates see him out there practicing early, eating right, and working in the off season, they will follow and get better themselves.

When is the last time you heard Moss out on the field practicing early or working late with the ball machine?

Neither one of these guys is going to win you a superbowl by themselves. I'll go with Owens to make the team better.

Granted Neither is going to make Freedy Mitchell a star.

Each season since Cris Carter retired, all of the talk going into camp was about how much Moss matured, how he took the younger receivers under his wing, how much his work ethic improved, etc etc. Moss spent his off seasons when Carter was still around, with Carter in Florida. Since then, he's spent them with Culpepper. Moss' off field work ethic gets a bad wrap, cause the bad things he does overshadows it. I'm not saying he's Jerry Rice off the field, but it's not like once the season is over he hits the couch for 6 months.I'll also add that Moss has made Randal Cunningham, Jeff George, Brad Johnson, Todd Bouman, and Gus Frerotte much better (I feel strongly that Daunte Culpepper will be added to that list by this time next year).

Whens the last time Owens got pulled over with a joint in his car? During the season I may add.Moss is a great receiver, I'd just rather have Owens on my football team than Moss.

Which is really an interesting point, given how much bad press TO gets for being outspoken.Choose your poison I guess, but the one thing that stands out, and makes TO the man is his Super Bowl performance on a bad leg.

 

[jurb26]

Choose your poison I guess, but the one thing that stands out, and makes TO the man is his Super Bowl performance on a bad leg.

...and why was this any more impressive with Moss' 2 TDs and the GAME WINNER in GB while palying gimped?

 

[Jason Wood]

With Owens, you have to deal with some on-field crap to be sure, but the guy's a model citizen off the field. Maybe Moss has sewn his wild oats and is mature off the field too now, but if I've got to choose between someone with purely football related crapola and someone that gives you as much crapola as a player PLUS brings off field risk, I'm opting for the former.

 

[jurb26]

We should also note that the "scout" in question is obviously talking about talent.... on the field. Not any of the other issues that for some reason can NEVER not be brought up when discussing either of these 2 players.Based on talent alone. I agree, TO can't hold Moss' jock.

 

[-OZ-]

Choose your poison I guess, but the one thing that stands out, and makes TO the man is his Super Bowl performance on a bad leg.

...and why was this any more impressive with Moss' 2 TDs and the GAME WINNER in GB while palying gimped?

Well, 4 receptions, 70 yards, 2 TDs, after having played for the previous month9 receptions, 122 yards, in a game the "experts" said he couldn't play in...

 

[jurb26]

Choose your poison I guess, but the one thing that stands out, and makes TO the man is his Super Bowl performance on a bad leg.

...and why was this any more impressive with Moss' 2 TDs and the GAME WINNER in GB while palying gimped?

Well, 4 receptions, 70 yards, 2 TDs, after having played for the previous month9 receptions, 122 yards, in a game the "experts" said he couldn't play in...

Ummm, he got injured/reinjured in that game. Jesh, talk about seeing what you want to see. Both guys are warriors on the field. What TO did in the SB was amazing... but so was Moss' ability to grit out the 2nd half of the game and actually provide the WINNING play while injured.

 

[BlackHole]

Anyone that has watched Owens weak in and weak out KNOWS the following..1. Owens has great YAC skills. Probably due to his tremendous work ethic, strength and speed.2. Owens is a great blocker.3. Owens has alligator arms when he sees a defender and a case of the dropsies when wide open as well as when about to get hit.4. EVERY SNGLE SEASON, Owens can be found fighting, arguing, pouting and breeding misconent with his teammates on the sidelines. McNabb just happens to be a guy that could probably kick Owens #### or at least cause some damage, so it only happened once in their 12 games together, but it still happened.5. Owens gets double teamed, but not all the time.I have not watched anywhere near as many Moss games. so I can not speak on how he's changed on the sideline. I do know alot of Minni homers where on this board the last couple of years supporting Moss and how he ha become a leader (according to their various local sources). Now where are these people? I've only seen Moss do some stupid things towards the fans the past 2-3 years. (walking off the field with 12 zseconds left is not cool, but it's better then staying on the field and fighting with your QB in front of everyone)1 Moss YAC is great for other reasons then Owens...pure speed, and speed kills.2. Moss is not a great blocker, but if he can take 2 orners and a safety out of the picture on most plays, I'll take it every time.3, Moss was used across the middle quite a bit the last two years, from what I've seen. He didn't seem to have alligator arms, or the dropsies. Correct me if I'm wrong here Vikes fans.4. EVERY single season, Moss does something stupid outside of the football realm. Oops, the last two years Moss did do the fake BA towards GBAY, (which we all know was funny). and he walked off the field 12 seconds early in a drudging. I can handle that from a super start athlete/ego like a Moss.5. See 2. No other WR in the NFL makes a defense cringe, adjust and change their game plan on every single play. Moss get's doubled when he is gimpy and barely able to run. This is INVALUABLE.I'd take either guy on the Raiders, but obviously I look forward to Moss, so I vote Moss. He has been and should continue to be, the most prolific WR of his era, period. This include FF and real footbal. Who have you drafted or would even consider drafting in the 1st round the past 4 years? Moss, not Owens and you all know it.

 

[-OZ-]

Choose your poison I guess, but the one thing that stands out, and makes TO the man is his Super Bowl performance on a bad leg.

...and why was this any more impressive with Moss' 2 TDs and the GAME WINNER in GB while palying gimped?

Well, 4 receptions, 70 yards, 2 TDs, after having played for the previous month9 receptions, 122 yards, in a game the "experts" said he couldn't play in...

Ummm, he got injured/reinjured in that game. Jesh, talk about seeing what you want to see. Both guys are warriors on the field. What TO did in the SB was amazing... but so was Moss' ability to grit out the 2nd half of the game and actually provide the WINNING play while injured.

Yeah, it's just too bad he couldn't get the game winner in the next game I'm not insulting Moss's performance, nor what he brings to the game, I am just more impressed by TO's performance against New England.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

Anyone that has watched Owens weak in and weak out KNOWS the following..

1. Owens has great YAC skills. Probably due to his tremendous work ethic, strength and speed.

2. Owens is a great blocker.

3. Owens has alligator arms when he sees a defender and a case of the dropsies when wide open as well as when about to get hit.

4. EVERY SNGLE SEASON, Owens can be found fighting, arguing, pouting and breeding misconent with his teammates on the sidelines. McNabb just happens to be a guy that could probably kick Owens #### or at least cause some damage, so it only happened once in their 12 games together, but it still happened.

5. Owens gets double teamed, but not all the time.

I have not watched anywhere near as many Moss games. so I can not speak on how he's changed on the sideline. I do know alot of Minni homers where on this board the last couple of years supporting Moss and how he ha become a leader (according to their various local sources). Now where are these people? I've only seen Moss do some stupid things towards the fans the past 2-3 years. (walking off the field with 12 zseconds left is not cool, but it's better then staying on the field and fighting with your QB in front of everyone)

1 Moss YAC is great for other reasons then Owens...pure speed, and speed kills.

2. Moss is not a great blocker, but if he can take 2 orners and a safety out of the picture on most plays, I'll take it every time.

3, Moss was used across the middle quite a bit the last two years, from what I've seen. He didn't seem to have alligator arms, or the dropsies. Correct me if I'm wrong here Vikes fans.

4. EVERY single season, Moss does something stupid outside of the football realm. Oops, the last two years Moss did do the fake BA towards GBAY, (which we all know was funny). and he walked off the field 12 seconds early in a drudging. I can handle that from a super start athlete/ego like a Moss.

5. See 2. No other WR in the NFL makes a defense cringe, adjust and change their game plan on every single play. Moss get's doubled when he is gimpy and barely able to run. This is INVALUABLE.

I'd take either guy on the Raiders, but obviously I look forward to Moss, so I vote Moss. He has been and should continue to be, the most prolific WR of his era, period. This include FF and real footbal. Who have you drafted or would even consider drafting in the 1st round the past 4 years? Moss, not Owens and you all know it.

great post. Everyone is thinking because it is so fresh to last years stats where Owens out played Moss due to injury. The other 6 years Moss has clearly been a better reciever other then maybe one year. Moss still had 13 TD's last year, not bad for being gimped up all year.

By the end of Moss's career his stats will be the only ones close enough to compare to J. Rice's who is the greates reciever of all time. This alone shows Moss' superiority to Owens as a reciever.

If you were to compare the 2 and their careers and had to say who is the most skilled and feared WR over the last 7 years for opposing defenses to play against all signs point to R. Moss. This is not bashing T. Owens because defenses definitely have to prepare for him too, but R. Moss is a step up. The cream of the crop.

If you compare skill to skill it is easily Moss.

 

[Jason Wood]

Anyone that has watched Owens weak in and weak out KNOWS the following..

1.  Owens has great YAC skills.  Probably due to his tremendous work ethic, strength and speed.

2.  Owens is a great blocker.

3.  Owens has alligator arms when he sees a defender and a case of the dropsies when wide open as well as when about to get hit.

4.  EVERY SNGLE SEASON, Owens can be found fighting, arguing, pouting and breeding misconent with his teammates on the sidelines.  McNabb just happens to be a guy that could probably kick Owens #### or at least cause some damage, so it only happened once in their 12 games together, but it still happened.

5.  Owens gets double teamed, but not all the time.

I have not watched anywhere near as many Moss games.  so I can not speak on how he's changed on the sideline.  I do know alot of Minni homers where on this board the last couple of years supporting Moss and how he ha become a leader (according to their various local sources).  Now where are these people?  I've only seen Moss do some stupid things towards the fans the past 2-3 years.  (walking off the field with 12 zseconds left is not cool, but it's better then staying on the field and fighting with your QB in front of everyone)

1  Moss YAC is great for other reasons then Owens...pure speed, and speed kills.

2.  Moss is not a great blocker, but if he can take 2 orners and a safety out of the picture on most plays, I'll take it every time.

3,  Moss was used across the middle quite a bit the last two years, from what I've seen.  He didn't seem to have alligator arms, or the dropsies.  Correct me if I'm wrong here Vikes fans.

4.  EVERY single season, Moss does something stupid outside of the football realm.  Oops, the last two years Moss did do the fake BA towards GBAY, (which we all know was funny). and he walked off the field 12 seconds early in a drudging.  I can handle that from a super start athlete/ego like a Moss.

5.  See 2.  No other WR in the NFL makes a defense cringe, adjust and change their game plan on every single play.  Moss get's doubled when he is gimpy and barely able to run.  This is INVALUABLE.

I'd take either guy on the Raiders, but obviously I look forward to Moss, so I vote Moss.  He has been and should continue to be, the most prolific WR of his era, period.  This include FF and real footbal.  Who have you drafted or would even consider drafting in the 1st round the past 4 years?  Moss, not Owens and you all know it.

great post. Everyone is thinking because it is so fresh to last years stats where Owens out played Moss due to injury. The other 6 years Moss has clearly been a better reciever other then maybe one year. Moss still had 13 TD's last year, not bad for being gimped up all year.

By the end of Moss's career his stats will be the only ones close enough to compare to J. Rice's who is the greates reciever of all time. This alone shows Moss' superiority to Owens as a reciever.

If you were to compare the 2 and their careers and had to say who is the most skilled and feared WR over the last 7 years for opposing defenses to play against all signs point to R. Moss. This is not bashing T. Owens because defenses definitely have to prepare for him too, but R. Moss is a step up. The cream of the crop.

If you compare skill to skill it is easily Moss.

I honestly don't think most, if anyone, would argue that Moss has more physical ability than Owens or any other receiver. But I took the question to mean, who's the best all around player. And that includes blocking and not taking plays off, which is something you have to hold against Moss. Moss is the superior talent to be sure, but the better all around player? Much tougher to say.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

Choose your poison I guess, but the one thing that stands out, and makes TO the man is his Super Bowl performance on a bad leg.

...and why was this any more impressive with Moss' 2 TDs and the GAME WINNER in GB while palying gimped?

Well, 4 receptions, 70 yards, 2 TDs, after having played for the previous month9 receptions, 122 yards, in a game the "experts" said he couldn't play in...

Ummm, he got injured/reinjured in that game. Jesh, talk about seeing what you want to see. Both guys are warriors on the field. What TO did in the SB was amazing... but so was Moss' ability to grit out the 2nd half of the game and actually provide the WINNING play while injured.

Yeah, it's just too bad he couldn't get the game winner in the next game I'm not insulting Moss's performance, nor what he brings to the game, I am just more impressed by TO's performance against New England.

You could say what you want about T.O. being a warrior because that is what he is a warrior. But if we are talking about having to take one of these recievers based on skills and who is going to improve my offense more, it has to be Moss. There are many warriors in sport. Leftwich playing on a broken leg at Marshal is still the best I have ever seen where his linemen carried him down the field on their shoulders after completing a pass so he could run another play.

Owens performance in the SB was arguably one of the most spectacular things I have seen as well but I still take Moss. In fact, Philly made it to the SB without Owens so another debate is does Philly really need Owens to make it to the SB.... :rotflmao: I am just joking about that as I know Owens clearly makes Philly a better team.

 

[jurb26]

Anyone that has watched Owens weak in and weak out KNOWS the following..

1.  Owens has great YAC skills.  Probably due to his tremendous work ethic, strength and speed.

2.  Owens is a great blocker.

3.  Owens has alligator arms when he sees a defender and a case of the dropsies when wide open as well as when about to get hit.

4.  EVERY SNGLE SEASON, Owens can be found fighting, arguing, pouting and breeding misconent with his teammates on the sidelines.  McNabb just happens to be a guy that could probably kick Owens #### or at least cause some damage, so it only happened once in their 12 games together, but it still happened.

5.  Owens gets double teamed, but not all the time.

I have not watched anywhere near as many Moss games.  so I can not speak on how he's changed on the sideline.  I do know alot of Minni homers where on this board the last couple of years supporting Moss and how he ha become a leader (according to their various local sources).  Now where are these people?  I've only seen Moss do some stupid things towards the fans the past 2-3 years.  (walking off the field with 12 zseconds left is not cool, but it's better then staying on the field and fighting with your QB in front of everyone)

1  Moss YAC is great for other reasons then Owens...pure speed, and speed kills.

2.  Moss is not a great blocker, but if he can take 2 orners and a safety out of the picture on most plays, I'll take it every time.

3,  Moss was used across the middle quite a bit the last two years, from what I've seen.  He didn't seem to have alligator arms, or the dropsies.  Correct me if I'm wrong here Vikes fans.

4.  EVERY single season, Moss does something stupid outside of the football realm.  Oops, the last two years Moss did do the fake BA towards GBAY, (which we all know was funny). and he walked off the field 12 seconds early in a drudging.  I can handle that from a super start athlete/ego like a Moss.

5.  See 2.  No other WR in the NFL makes a defense cringe, adjust and change their game plan on every single play.  Moss get's doubled when he is gimpy and barely able to run.  This is INVALUABLE.

I'd take either guy on the Raiders, but obviously I look forward to Moss, so I vote Moss.  He has been and should continue to be, the most prolific WR of his era, period.  This include FF and real footbal.  Who have you drafted or would even consider drafting in the 1st round the past 4 years?  Moss, not Owens and you all know it.

great post. Everyone is thinking because it is so fresh to last years stats where Owens out played Moss due to injury. The other 6 years Moss has clearly been a better reciever other then maybe one year. Moss still had 13 TD's last year, not bad for being gimped up all year.

By the end of Moss's career his stats will be the only ones close enough to compare to J. Rice's who is the greates reciever of all time. This alone shows Moss' superiority to Owens as a reciever.

If you were to compare the 2 and their careers and had to say who is the most skilled and feared WR over the last 7 years for opposing defenses to play against all signs point to R. Moss. This is not bashing T. Owens because defenses definitely have to prepare for him too, but R. Moss is a step up. The cream of the crop.

If you compare skill to skill it is easily Moss.

I honestly don't think most, if anyone, would argue that Moss has more physical ability than Owens or any other receiver. But I took the question to mean, who's the best all around player. And that includes blocking and not taking plays off, which is something you have to hold against Moss. Moss is the superior talent to be sure, but the better all around player? Much tougher to say.

Moss is a much better blocker than anyone here (and in general) ever gives him credit for. Hell in that same playoff game vs. GB, the 1st TD Minn scored, the pass to the RB (don't remember which one ) was sprung by a MOSS downfield block. Not once was this block mentioned by any of the FOX crew. Had that been Ward or TO, I'm sure it would have been talked about for 5 mins though. I'm mean lord knows, they are the only WRs in the league who know how to block.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

Owens' ferocious attitude spreads to the rest of the team and elevates it. Moss just brings everyone down into the gutter.

I'd take Owens over Moss if I was running a team.

Every time, hands down, without a doubt, no questions asked.Talent, schmalent. Owens is the far better FOOTBALL PLAYER and brings MUCH more to a football team than Moss.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

Owens' ferocious attitude spreads to the rest of the team and elevates it. Moss just brings everyone down into the gutter.

I am not so sure J. Garcia would agree with you here.

This guy reviewing T.O.'s book had some really good things to say about T.O. but he also had this to say.......

The only thing that bugs me about this book, and many T.O. interviews I've seen, is how Owens always tries to paint himself as the victim. He seems to come off as if he thinks he's the only one who gets hassled by the "No Fun League" and the media for his celebrations, and free attitude (I think New Orleans' Joe Horn received more negative press than he did after the cell phone incident). Owens' complaints about team meetings, studying film, and NFL fines for uniform violations may cause some readers to roll their eyes.

T.O. is great but to say that all he does is up lift his teammates is ludicris.

 

[jwvdcw]

Both have spectacular hands.

I thought the knock on TO was alwasy that he dropped too many easy catches?

 

[jurb26]

Owens' ferocious attitude spreads to the rest of the team and elevates it. Moss just brings everyone down into the gutter.

I'd take Owens over Moss if I was running a team.

Every time, hands down, without a doubt, no questions asked.Talent, schmalent. Owens is the far better FOOTBALL PLAYER and brings MUCH more to a football team than Moss.

Ownes is a fair weather teammate. All is good so long as he is getting his enormous portion of the pie and they are winning. Things go bad, he will be the 1st to start pointing the fingure and throwing a fit though though.:rotflmao: Visions of the Steeler game are running through my head right now.

 

[jurb26]

Both have spectacular hands.

I thought the knock on TO was alwasy that he dropped too many easy catches?

It is, but appernently this isn't supposed to be an objective thread.

 

[jwvdcw]

I realize Moss has performed well even without Culpepper, but has anyone calculated his stats minus C-Pep and compared them to TO without McNabb? I'm simply guessing they're closer than we might have thought, TO may even be better.

What's the betting line on who wins a Super Bowl first?

Moss has put up amazing numbers without Culpepper and with very average QBs. TO has at least always had a decent QB in Garcia.

 

[Chaka]

Owens' ferocious attitude spreads to the rest of the team and elevates it. Moss just brings everyone down into the gutter.

I'd take Owens over Moss if I was running a team.

Every time, hands down, without a doubt, no questions asked.Talent, schmalent. Owens is the far better FOOTBALL PLAYER and brings MUCH more to a football team than Moss.

Just because you say it with conviction doesn't make it true Scotty.p.s. great sig.

 

[Brintey Spears]

I agree with the Scout. Owens although supremely talented in a few aspects is nowhere near Moss as a whole.Owens is unrivaled breaking tackles. He's built bigger than a TE and has massive upper body strength.However, I disagree with a few things and wanted to add a few to Woods post.Route Running - Owens is not even in the top 20 WR's for route running. He takes huge steps out of his turns, and has "happy feet". Randy Moss is a very good route runner. Not the very best in the league (Likely Harrison), but light years ahead of Owens.Hands - Owens is very mediocre in this category. He simply isn't natural at catching. Maybe because of his bulky upper body, but he cannot catch the ball over his shoulder well, and can't jump and catch the ball over his head. Nodody in the league is better at contorting their upper body (Moss is slender and this might be an advantage) than Randy Moss.Red Zone - Has anyone seen TO outjump and take the ball away from another player? Every team knows that the jump ball/fade is coming, yet has trouble stopping Randy from scoring.Speed - Clearly Moss, though TO is no slug by any means.YAC - About the only thing that I would give the edge to TO in. And that is one on one trying to run over the other player. If Randy gets the ball on a crossing pattern, I would rather have him running with it, he will not get caught from behind like TO. However, Moss trying to break a tackle is a joke. DB's fear Owens staring them down like a pork chop.Seriously Owens is a top WR. But nobody in this age is near Randy Moss status as a Wide Receiver. Maybe ever.

 

[Otis]

Moss couldn't hold Owens' jock strap.There, I said it.

 

[lipster26]

I realize Moss has performed well even without Culpepper, but has anyone calculated his stats minus C-Pep and compared them to TO without McNabb? I'm simply guessing they're closer than we might have thought, TO may even be better.

What's the betting line on who wins a Super Bowl first?

Moss has put up amazing numbers without Culpepper and with very average QBs. TO has at least always had a decent QB in Garcia.

This is not entirely true. In Garcia's first two years as a niner he was pretty terrible. Moss has mainly had Cunningham and Cpepp throwing to him. The sample size of mediocre QB's throwing to him is too small to give him a significant edge of making the QB look better. He does have the edge though.Also the offenses that TO played in weren't as explosive as the Vikings were. The niners were a very good running team with Hearst and Barlow's rbbc. Garcia's strength was his ability to make plays out of the pocket, so in essence Owen's stats mostly came from broken plays. Owens has never had a complimentary receiver to take any pressure off of him. He was always the main focus for defensive backs. He was used as the slot receiver more and put in motion so he wasn't double covered because it's tougher to double cover someone for slants and short crossing patterns. It's easier to see Moss being double covered because he has deeper patterns.

Moss is arguably the best WR to have at the goaline because of his leaping ability and hands. I have no problems in agreeing that Moss has more pure wide receiver talent in the traditional sense, but he is not head and shoulders above TO.

Moss is obviously a once in a lifetime WR. But if you look at the trend that TO has started with WR's, you'll see that every GM is looking for the next TO, not the next Moss. They want the big, strong and fast ones. He's the prototypical WR.