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Muhammad Ali -- RIP (1 Viewer)

Uruk-Hai said:
Frazier wasn't fighting early Ali, either. Tyson would have never caught him. I'm telling you guys, there has never been a HW like that dude. I'm not saying this because the guy just died - he was a perfectly built fighter with speed unlike anything ever seen in the HW division.

I also believe the in-his-30s Ali would smoke Tyson, but he would definitely be open to punishment and could be dropped.
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You make a good point about Fraizer fighting Ali post suspension from boxing. Ali's prime was robbed of him and he's still the GOAT. 

Im not suggesting Tyson would mop the floor with Ali, I'm just saying Tyson has a punchers chance. You say Tyson wouldn't have caught him, but Fraizer did, A LOT. If it's Tyson throwing those bombs it's light out. 

I also think Ali had an intimidating alpha male personality that was imposing. He was faster, stronger, taller, smarter, and as he would tell you, better looking then almost everyone. 

 
Ali fans should check out Anthony Joshua, who is probably the closest comp to Ali currently. He is just starting out, but he is a tall physical, athletic specimen who can bang guys out and just won his first belt. Not well known outside of boxing circles or England, but he is exciting, and he is just getting to the point where he is starting to fight some real dudes. Hopefully Wilder or Fury soon.

Tysons prime was so short that its hard to compare the two. And do you compare pre-hiatus ali or post? Lot of variables. But i think Cus-era Tyson couldve at least hung with anyone. 

 
Not sure if many in here have read "Facing Ali" by Stephen Brunt. The writer interviews 15 of Ali's opponents and gives their insights on the man and the fight. Brunt also provides perspective on the meaning of each fight to Ali's and his opponent's career and the sport of boxing. They also made a movie with the same name that featured 10 of Ali's opponents, but I haven't seen it, so I can't vouch for it. The book is a great read though.

 
Walking Boot said:
It's important to remember that Ali endorsed Reagan in 84, solely over the issue of keeping God in the public schools.

 http://www.nytimes.com/1984/10/03/us/campaign-notes-muhammad-ali-switches-his-support-to-reagan.html

All you in here memorialing this guy while supporting political candidates that want to remove faith from schools are the worst kind of hypocrites. 
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I've got no dog in this political fight, but do you remember posting this in another thread?

"For about the billionth time, you can vote for a candidate without supporting most of their position. It's not all cut and dried. 

I know you don't get it because you're a mindless sycophant who blindly agrees with everything that crazy harpy Hillary says, even when she contradicts herself, but not everyone is as robotic as you are. Some people actually exist in the middle. "

It is too late, but it would have been nice if this thread could have remained about memories, thoughts and opinions about a great athlete and not become polluted with the political #### that dominates so many other FFA threads. I choose to stay out of the Political threads, so it would be nice if the zealots for both parties would keep their politics out of non-political threads.  Probably an unrealistic expectation, but my hope nonetheless. 

 
You guys are overexaggerating the pre suspension Ali. He got dropped twice by total bums before Liston. The "perfect fighter" doesn't taste the canvas against club fighters. Presuspension Ali was great, but he had flaws like every other fighter. 

 
TLEF316 said:
Trump is awful and many of the people that support him absolutely have some racist reasons for doing so (in my opinion). 
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  :lmao:  So Trump and his supporters are racist and Ali wasn't?  Might be the funniest thing I've heard today.  Please watch this video.  Has Trump ever spewed anything even remotely close to this racist garbage? https://youtu.be/HqiWFLsgVi4   

 
Higgs said:
  :lmao:  So Trump and his supporters are racist and Ali wasn't?  Might be the funniest thing I've heard today.  Please watch this video.  Has Trump ever spewed anything even remotely close to this racist garbage? https://youtu.be/HqiWFLsgVi4   
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Ali was racist. He was a victim of racism, which undoubtedly shaped his views. Here in Miami, in the early 1960s, he couldn't stay in the Miami Beach hotels, so Angelo Dundee put him in rundown hotels in the colored part of town known as Overtown. When he ran across the MacArthur Causeway between Overtown and the 5th street gym in south beach, the police stopped him and he told them to call Angelo. It goes on and on. What were Trump's experiences in elite boarding schools in NY, his so called military training?

Ali, was simply a fighter, who had racist views, but he also spread a message of peace. Hence, the accolades. He took a stand against war, which cost him. Trump evaded the draft, and lied about it and called avoiding STDs his personal Vietnam. A big difference in character between Ali and Trump.   

Trump is running for the most powerful position in the world. Even the Republicans are ashamed of his racist rhetoric. Counsel, I move that your statement is completely out of context. 

 
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tommyboy said:
You guys are obsessed with Trump in an 11 page thread paying homage to Muhammad Ali . Let that sink in 
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Personally I'm over it. I haven't changed my mind on the issue, but Ali is simply too large a figure to be confined to this one issue. 

I want to talk more about his fights. Has anyone here mentioned Chuck Wepner yet? That was the fight that inspired the movie Rocky. 

 
With all the highlights of his career, I still remember his  Andy Kaufman moment... the "fight" with Antonio "Landing Jaw"  Inoki (IIRC, Ali said his jaw was so big you could land a plane on it, so he came up with that name). The fight was a cluster. I don't remember much else about it. After that cluster he went on to beat Norton, Shavers  & Spinks (though he lost his first bout with Leon ) . I wonder how much longer he would have lived had he not been pummeled by Larry Holmes in 1980. 

RIP

 
BowieMercs said:
With all the highlights of his career, I still remember his  Andy Kaufman moment... the "fight" with Antonio "Landing Jaw"  Inoki (IIRC, Ali said his jaw was so big you could land a plane on it, so he came up with that name). The fight was a cluster. I don't remember much else about it. After that cluster he went on to beat Norton, Shavers  & Spinks (though he lost his first bout with Leon ) . I wonder how much longer he would have lived had he not been pummeled by Larry Holmes in 1980. 

RIP
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Read about him in some boxing forums... the unspoken enemy of his life, and I've read so much these past few days so someone may well have raised this point here, but its Don King for parading him out to get pummeled.  My god that moustache alone in 1981 should have been grounds to question his competency!

But in all seriousness, he apparently was shell shocked and slurring after that Frazier fight in the early 70's.   The brain is a really mysterious organ and really there's no correlation as to the type of impact and how it affects certain guys and not others.   So knowing if future fights did more damage is the known unknown.  As far as I know, there is no direct causation between brain trauma and Parkinsons, but there is growing consideration to correlation. 

 
SoBeDad said:
Ali was racist. He was a victim of racism, which undoubtedly shaped his views. Here in Miami, in the early 1960s, he couldn't stay in the Miami Beach hotels, so Angelo Dundee put him in rundown hotels in the colored part of town known as Overtown. When he ran across the MacArthur Causeway between Overtown and the 5th street gym in south beach, the police stopped him and he told them to call Angelo. It goes on and on. What were Trump's experiences in elite boarding schools in NY, his so called military training?

Ali, was simply a fighter, who had racist views, but he also spread a message of peace. Hence, the accolades. He took a stand against war, which cost him. Trump evaded the draft, and lied about it and called avoiding STDs his personal Vietnam. A big difference in character between Ali and Trump.   

Trump is running for the most powerful position in the world. Even the Republicans are ashamed of his racist rhetoric. Counsel, I move that your statement is completely out of context. 
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This is actually a very good post.  What I do appreciate about Ali was his transformation later in life, and the charitable kindness he showed.  He was a very complex figure.  On the whole I choose to view him as a heroic figure, and in the end a good man.

 
Ilov80s said:
You guys are overexaggerating the pre suspension Ali. He got dropped twice by total bums before Liston. The "perfect fighter" doesn't taste the canvas against club fighters. Presuspension Ali was great, but he had flaws like every other fighter. 
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What I meant by "perfect fighter" was his tools, not that he fought every fight perfectly. Speed, power, smarts - no heavyweight that I saw ever had the combo Ali did. 

 
I'm a guy who's come around on Ali, too. Didn't like him much as a kid, and I never understood the level of worship there was for him as an athlete. I mean the guy took some L's. He always seemed like a dude that older sportswriters lionized, almost dogmatically.

But his refusing to go to Vietnam is an ideological stand that I don't think many athletes would ever make. He could've done an easy year and gotten right back into boxing, instead of risking jail, the legal battles, public scorn etc. etc. As a boxer, I know his most famous fights came post-hiatus, but watching 60's Ali, even in grainy black-and-white, is stunning. Boxing is pretty terrible, but there's a singular pleasure to watching the guys who are the top of their game work: Ali, Chavez, Roy Jones in his prime, even Mayweather at his prime, if you can put aside his stomach-churning exploits outside the ring. I think there was a write-up in Deadspin that accurately described Ali as doing all of the "wrong" things as a boxer as a guy who had simply mastered his craft and was working on another level. 

 
Craig_MiamiFL said:
SMH

https://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/the-turnstile/tickets-to-muhammad-ali-s-funeral-run-out-in-an-hour-164553978.html
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"I'm personally disgusted and amazed that someone would try to profit off of Muhammad Ali's memorial service," Ali family spokesman Bob Gunnell said. "I hope that those buying tickets or trying to buy tickets would stop those efforts by not purchasing. Muhammad Ali wanted this to be a free event, an event that was open to all."

So who`s selling the tickets ...im confused

 
BustedKnuckles said:
"I'm personally disgusted and amazed that someone would try to profit off of Muhammad Ali's memorial service," Ali family spokesman Bob Gunnell said. "I hope that those buying tickets or trying to buy tickets would stop those efforts by not purchasing. Muhammad Ali wanted this to be a free event, an event that was open to all."

So who`s selling the tickets ...im confused
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Don King

 
Guys, I want to apologize again for my comments about this last week. I've come to realize in retrospect that Muhammad Ali was a man who wanted to be loved by all, that he would not have cared what your political views were- he would have welcomed your love whoever you were. He was truly a giant of a man. 

I was a jerk. I'm sorry. 

 
Ilov80s said:
I get people criticizing Tim here, but given what we know of Ali, I think we shouldn't be so harsh on Tim. Ali likeky wouldn't like Trump or the ideas he speaks for. Ali also stood got boxing as much as he did for speaking your mind, making you own decisions regardless of popularity. 
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Not necessarily on the bolded according to Ali's spokeman, Bob Gunnell.  Ali and Trump have a history together raising funds for Parkinson's research.

Muhammad Ali 'didn't criticise Donald Trump,' says spokesman

 
timschochet said:
Guys, I want to apologize again for my comments about this last week. I've come to realize in retrospect that Muhammad Ali was a man who wanted to be loved by all, that he would not have cared what your political views were- he would have welcomed your love whoever you were. He was truly a giant of a man. 

I was a jerk. I'm sorry. 
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Actually, he struck me as a guy who didn't give a #### if you hated him for who he was because he was going to be true to himself regardless.

 
Ilov80s said:
You think Ali supported the idea of banning Muslims? I have no doubt Ali, like most Muslims, was against terrorists using the faith to justify violence. I am also sure he was against discriminsting against Muslims.
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No, obviously not.  That's why I never suggested that.  

I do think it's possible that Ali could compartmentalize his dislike for Trump's views on Muslims, but not necessarily hate Trump himself given their history.  

And according to Ali's spokesman and according to Ali's own statement (in the article),  Ali seemed to take a greater issue with jihadists who kill innocent people in the name of Allah thus creating a Trump-type backlash against Islam.  It sounds like Ali was at least understanding how that type of backlash originates.

 
Gary Coal Man said:
Actually, he struck me as a guy who didn't give a #### if you hated him for who he was because he was going to be true to himself regardless.
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Yeah. I mean, look at the #### (and I mean that very endearingly) that he talked starting in the early sixties. Even if it was directly mostly towards other black fighters, that was galling to a lot of white people. And then changing his name. And 'Nam. Jesus.

If Ali had passed away early, say, when during his hiatus when he was fighting for conscientious objector status, and footballguys.com somehow existed then, this thread, or any other conversation about his death, would have had a very different tone. We -- and especially us white people -- have come around on him.

 
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