Muslims in NYC Planning to Build Second Mosque Near Ground Zero (1 Viewer)

[Statorama]

With 1.5 billion Muslims worldwide who haven't blown themselves up in an effort to kill infidels, I'd have to think there are more that would embrace the idea of redefining their views a bit than would choose to blow themselves up. That's why they're called extremists, because most aren't like them.

Then we get back to how these muslims are educated abroad. In those locations they're taught the old ways of islam, where they are frightened of progression and taught that American idealism runs fundamentally opposite those of the teachings of islam.The guys that are born here seem really nice. It probably comes down to education.

 

[Woogie Lee]

I think the entire focus of people is very skewed on this issue. There is no fundamental problem with Islam. However, the religion has recently been hi-jacked by radical conservatives (not a shot at American conservatives, conservative/liberal have very different meanings in different places) for political gain. Instead of being suspect with Islam, we should see that the real issue is radicalism. Whether far right like the NAZI party of Taliban or far left Communists in Russia, radicals are the ones who are a threat to America. The more American backlash to Islam, the more we push the liberal and moderate Muslims towards the conservative power base. I think it is very important that America shows a great deal of tolerance towards peaceful, law-abiding Muslim citizens. By saying that an Arab Cultural Center/Mosque being built 2.5 blocks from Ground Zero is offensive or insensitive, implies that entirety of Islam is somehow responsible for or should hold some guilt over 9/11.

It's going to end up being a homing beacon for the terrorist fringe.

 

[Woogie Lee]

With 1.5 billion Muslims worldwide who haven't blown themselves up in an effort to kill infidels, I'd have to think there are more that would embrace the idea of redefining their views a bit than would choose to blow themselves up. That's why they're called extremists, because most aren't like them.

Then we get back to how these muslims are educated abroad. In those locations they're taught the old ways of islam, where they are frightened of progression and taught that American idealism runs fundamentally opposite those of the teachings of islam.The guys that are born here seem really nice. It probably comes down to education.

Or for some of them in Iraq, maybe we should figure out how to get their electricity back on after 7 years.

 

[Statorama]

The number is the most significant thing to you? Not how their actions mirror those of other cults? Their methods? I don't care about the muslims in places where they're still trading their daughters for goats. In the US they represent approximately 0.8% of the population which is Scientology territory. Also, look at the actions of their religious leader. Does he seem more like Manson and Koresh or Jesus? Think about it.

holy crap, seriously? even you cant be that naive.

it's all shtick until someone calls him out. then, and only then, is he just "joking around."

Seems like I've been called out plenty in this thread and held my own.Sorry I'm not one of these PC cats that just rolls over when the word "muslim" is mentioned.If you want to debate a particluar stance of mine, I'm ready. Go toe to toe with me on the merits of Muhammad vs. Jesus. I dare you.

 

[perry147]

The number is the most significant thing to you? Not how their actions mirror those of other cults? Their methods? I don't care about the muslims in places where they're still trading their daughters for goats. In the US they represent approximately 0.8% of the population which is Scientology territory. Also, look at the actions of their religious leader. Does he seem more like Manson and Koresh or Jesus? Think about it.

holy crap, seriously? even you cant be that naive.

it's all shtick until someone calls him out. then, and only then, is he just "joking around."

Seems like I've been called out plenty in this thread and held my own.Sorry I'm not one of these PC cats that just rolls over when the word "muslim" is mentioned.If you want to debate a particluar stance of mine, I'm ready. Go toe to toe with me on the merits of Muhammad vs. Jesus. I dare you.

:facepalm:Muslims do not worship Muhammad.

 

[Statorama]

:facepalm:Muslims do not worship Muhammad.

Isn't he the ultimate example?I understand that they worship God (Allah). But how they live their daily lives is based on the writings of a madman.

 

[Gigantomachia]

The number is the most significant thing to you? Not how their actions mirror those of other cults? Their methods? I don't care about the muslims in places where they're still trading their daughters for goats. In the US they represent approximately 0.8% of the population which is Scientology territory. Also, look at the actions of their religious leader. Does he seem more like Manson and Koresh or Jesus? Think about it.

holy crap, seriously? even you cant be that naive.

it's all shtick until someone calls him out. then, and only then, is he just "joking around."

Seems like I've been called out plenty in this thread and held my own.Sorry I'm not one of these PC cats that just rolls over when the word "muslim" is mentioned.If you want to debate a particluar stance of mine, I'm ready. Go toe to toe with me on the merits of Muhammad vs. Jesus. I dare you.

i'm your huckleberry, lets do it.Muhammad is a prophet, which Muslims also understand Jesus to be. Muslims, unlike Christians, feel it is blasphemy to argue that a human was god. Allah has no need to become human, and to think he did is to make him less than ideal.And you have a problem with this why?

 

[Gigantomachia]

:facepalm:Muslims do not worship Muhammad.

Isn't he the ultimate example?I understand that they worship God (Allah). But how they live their daily lives is based on the writings of a madman.

and jesus entering the temple and causing problems during passover is not considered mad? why not?ETA: actually, simply entering Jerusalem and causing problems during passover was crazy enough.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

Just a side note to the people of NY, don't come crying when the chickens come home to roost.

Just a side note also here for those people who believe that Islam was the cause of 9/11 -it wasn't. And if we are attacked again that will not change - you can't make a square block go into a round hole- so quit trying to hammer it in.

Therein lies the rub. The terrorists were acting on their interpretation of The Koran, Hadith, and jihad. This may not be the same interpretation of most Muslims, but the interpretation is supPorted by a fair number of people globally. To say that Islam wasn't the root of the 9/11 Terrorists actions is not necessarily true.And therein lies the great intra-Islam struggle. Let's hope for all our sake that the moderates' interpretations prevail.

So by the same logic if we had a christian attack a federal building in the heartland of America because he was influenced by a particular interpretation of Christianity, that I am sure you would believe that the Christian church was somehow a sanctuary for terrorists, and have a moratorium on the construction of more churches. If only we had something like that in the past to provide such a precedence.

The number of Christian radicals that endorse the use of violence as a legitimate end pales in comparison to the number of Muslims worldwide that hold a similar sentiment. I know we hear about the ocassional Christian nut who shoots an abortion doctor, but there's no real movement within the Christian church toward "an end we envision justifies the violent means we use" philosophy. There is such a movement going on within Islam on a global scale. You can deny it exists, but it's very real.As I've pointed out time and time again, hopefully the moderates quiet the movement.

Are you by chance Richard Jewell? That would be awesomely ironic.

 

[mad sweeney]

Just a side note also here for those people who believe that Islam was the cause of 9/11 -it wasn't. And if we are attacked again that will not change - you can't make a square block go into a round hole- so quit trying to hammer it in.

Therein lies the rub. The terrorists were acting on their interpretation of The Koran, Hadith, and jihad. This may not be the same interpretation of most Muslims, but the interpretation is supPorted by a fair number of people globally. To say that Islam wasn't the root of the 9/11 Terrorists actions is not necessarily true.And therein lies the great intra-Islam struggle. Let's hope for all our sake that the moderates' interpretations prevail.

So by the same logic if we had a christian attack a federal building in the heartland of America because he was influenced by a particular interpretation of Christianity, that I am sure you would believe that the Christian church was somehow a sanctuary for terrorists, and have a moratorium on the construction of more churches. If only we had something like that in the past to provide such a precedence.

The number of Christian radicals that endorse the use of violence as a legitimate end pales in comparison to the number of Muslims worldwide that hold a similar sentiment. I know we hear about the ocassional Christian nut who shoots an abortion doctor, but there's no real movement within the Christian church toward "an end we envision justifies the violent means we use" philosophy. There is such a movement going on within Islam on a global scale. You can deny it exists, but it's very real.As I've pointed out time and time again, hopefully the moderates quiet the movement.

Are you by chance Richard Jewell? That would be awesomely ironic.

Doubtful

 

[Jewell]

Are you by chance Richard Jewell? That would be awesomely ironic.

Actually, yes I am! I've rolled with the Richard Jewell alias for years on another site and only shortened it when everybody started calling me just Jewell. I even had that fat ******* as my avatar here up until a few weeks ago.

 

[Statorama]

The number is the most significant thing to you? Not how their actions mirror those of other cults? Their methods? I don't care about the muslims in places where they're still trading their daughters for goats. In the US they represent approximately 0.8% of the population which is Scientology territory. Also, look at the actions of their religious leader. Does he seem more like Manson and Koresh or Jesus? Think about it.

holy crap, seriously? even you cant be that naive.

it's all shtick until someone calls him out. then, and only then, is he just "joking around."

Seems like I've been called out plenty in this thread and held my own.Sorry I'm not one of these PC cats that just rolls over when the word "muslim" is mentioned.If you want to debate a particluar stance of mine, I'm ready. Go toe to toe with me on the merits of Muhammad vs. Jesus. I dare you.

i'm your huckleberry, lets do it.Muhammad is a prophet, which Muslims also understand Jesus to be. Muslims, unlike Christians, feel it is blasphemy to argue that a human was god. Allah has no need to become human, and to think he did is to make him less than ideal.And you have a problem with this why?

Jesus was the son of God, Muhammad was the son of God, you and I are sons of God. Jesus was the ideal in both in grace and spirit. Muhammad was a barbarian that led or organized 65 brutal military campaigns to further his religion. Jesus fed the poor and healed the sick. Muhammad gave into the sins of the flesh, both adult and child, concentual or forced.I'm not a Catholic or anything, so don't quote me.Edit to add: come on, we all have to admit Jesus was cool

 

[Radio Free Homer]

The other mosque being built on hallowed ground...Murfreesboro!

In Tennessee, three plans for new Islamic centers in the Nashville area — one of which was ultimately withdrawn — have provoked controversy and outbursts of ugliness. Members of one mosque discovered a delicately rendered Jerusalem cross spray-painted on the side of their building with the words “Muslims go home.”

The Islamic Center of Murfreesboro became a hot-button political issue during this month’s primary election, prompting failed Republican gubernatorial candidate Ron Ramsey to ask whether Islam was a “cult.” Another candidate paid for a billboard high above Interstate 24 near Nashville that read: “Defeat Universal Jihad Now.”

Evangelist Pat Robertson weighed in Thursday, wondering on his television program whether a Muslim takeover of America was imminent and whether local officials could be bribed. (The mayor of the county where the Islamic Center is proposed called that idea “ridiculous.”)

The members of the Murfreesboro mosque, who say they have always rejected extremism, have been bewildered by the vitriol.

Saleh M. Sbenaty, an engineering professor who came to the United States from Syria for his doctoral studies three decades ago, gets misty-eyed describing the kindness his neighbors showed his family after Sept. 11. At one point, he recalled, he was in a shopping mall parking lot with his wife, who wears a hijab, and a group of locals made a point to stop and assure them they had nothing to fear.

The other day, however, as he was standing on the mosque’s 15-acre parcel of land just outside town, drivers honked and flipped their middle fingers in the air as they rode past.

“It’s tough to see that change,” Sbenaty said.

....

"What I sense is a certain amount of fear fueling the animosity," said Jim Daniel, a former county commissioner and former county Republican Party chairman, sitting down for lunch one day last week at City Cafe. Residents worry that "the Muslims coming in here will keep growing in numbers and override our system of law and impose sharia law."

....

About 1,000 people were there, and afterward, one of them, Sherry McLain, told a local radio station that she was worried about plans that had surfaced this spring for new Islamic centers in her town and two nearby communities.

"That frightens me," she said. "Something's going on, and I don't like it. We're at war with these people."

Fisher said the protest was a "a beautiful example of our democracy at work." But Lema Sbenaty, Saleh's 19-year-old daughter and an MTSU student, didn't see it that way.

"I don't think I've ever experienced anything like that," she said later. "You could see the hatred in their eyes."

Full story: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...ST2010082202944

 

[Gigantomachia]

Jesus was the son of God, Muhammad was the son of God, you and I are sons of God. Jesus was the ideal in both in grace and spirit. Muhammad was a barbarian that led or organized 65 brutal military campaigns to further his religion. Jesus fed the poor and healed the sick. Muhammad gave into the sins of the flesh, both adult and child, concentual or forced.I'm not a Catholic or anything, so don't quote me.Edit to add: come on, we all have to admit Jesus was cool

what you fail to appreciate is that everything we know about each was written by someone other than muhammad or jesus, i.e., each story was written to help justify the reactions to the times. just because one was dealing with rome and the other with rogue tribes explains the context. the overreaching attempt by either side simply proves that most don't think critically about these issues.

 

[Statorama]

Jesus was the son of God, Muhammad was the son of God, you and I are sons of God. Jesus was the ideal in both in grace and spirit. Muhammad was a barbarian that led or organized 65 brutal military campaigns to further his religion. Jesus fed the poor and healed the sick. Muhammad gave into the sins of the flesh, both adult and child, concentual or forced.I'm not a Catholic or anything, so don't quote me.Edit to add: come on, we all have to admit Jesus was cool

what you fail to appreciate is that everything we know about each was written by someone other than muhammad or jesus, i.e., each story was written to help justify the reactions to the times. just because one was dealing with rome and the other with rogue tribes explains the context. the overreaching attempt by either side simply proves that most don't think critically about these issues.

But really, think about what is written about each. On the most simplistic level, Jesus was a giver, Muhammad a taker.

 

[KarmaPolice]

I think the entire focus of people is very skewed on this issue. There is no fundamental problem with Islam. However, the religion has recently been hi-jacked by radical conservatives (not a shot at American conservatives, conservative/liberal have very different meanings in different places) for political gain. Instead of being suspect with Islam, we should see that the real issue is radicalism. Whether far right like the NAZI party of Taliban or far left Communists in Russia, radicals are the ones who are a threat to America. The more American backlash to Islam, the more we push the liberal and moderate Muslims towards the conservative power base. I think it is very important that America shows a great deal of tolerance towards peaceful, law-abiding Muslim citizens. By saying that an Arab Cultural Center/Mosque being built 2.5 blocks from Ground Zero is offensive or insensitive, implies that entirety of Islam is somehow responsible for or should hold some guilt over 9/11.

It's going to end up being a homing beacon for the terrorist fringe. It's the shining memorial to Atta and the rest of his group.Just picture yourself being a young muslim on the fringe in one of those small towns where the chief export is dirt. You hear of a golden tower built in the heart of the location of the 9/11 terror attacks. Can you honestly say that wouldn't give you pause to consider martyrdom in the slightest?

Who knows how the lunatics will react? Sure they could think of it as a 'memorial' to them. They could also think it's a victory that we don't do it because what they did on 9/11 is still controlling our actions and making us live in fear. Whatever we do, they will turn it into a recruitment tool. Long story short, is who gives a ####? The radicals you fear will hate us no matter what we do, so it's our responsibility as a supposedly intelligent, compassionate, and more civilized society to do the right thing. And to me, that is showing the world we don't think all Muslims are the same and that we uphold the principles we are supposedly fighting for and spreading around the world - our Constitution and our freedoms.

 

[Gigantomachia]

Jesus was the son of God, Muhammad was the son of God, you and I are sons of God. Jesus was the ideal in both in grace and spirit. Muhammad was a barbarian that led or organized 65 brutal military campaigns to further his religion. Jesus fed the poor and healed the sick. Muhammad gave into the sins of the flesh, both adult and child, concentual or forced.I'm not a Catholic or anything, so don't quote me.Edit to add: come on, we all have to admit Jesus was cool

what you fail to appreciate is that everything we know about each was written by someone other than muhammad or jesus, i.e., each story was written to help justify the reactions to the times. just because one was dealing with rome and the other with rogue tribes explains the context. the overreaching attempt by either side simply proves that most don't think critically about these issues.

But really, think about what is written about each. On the most simplistic level, Jesus was a giver, Muhammad a taker.

again, misunderstands how different the contexts were for each. for jesus rome was in full control and way too big to take on militarily, hence the whole kill 'em with kindness approach. with the decline of rome each individual providence returned to old tribal feuds--think Afghanistan, times don't really change that much--to which was required a much harsher approach.put jesus in the 7th century and i bet ya donuts to dollars his message would change, radically.

 

[timschochet]

Jesus was the son of God, Muhammad was the son of God, you and I are sons of God. Jesus was the ideal in both in grace and spirit. Muhammad was a barbarian that led or organized 65 brutal military campaigns to further his religion. Jesus fed the poor and healed the sick. Muhammad gave into the sins of the flesh, both adult and child, concentual or forced.I'm not a Catholic or anything, so don't quote me.Edit to add: come on, we all have to admit Jesus was cool

what you fail to appreciate is that everything we know about each was written by someone other than muhammad or jesus, i.e., each story was written to help justify the reactions to the times. just because one was dealing with rome and the other with rogue tribes explains the context. the overreaching attempt by either side simply proves that most don't think critically about these issues.

Unlike Jesus, isn't there actual evidence (outside of the Koran) that Muhammad existed?

 

[Gigantomachia]

Jesus was the son of God, Muhammad was the son of God, you and I are sons of God. Jesus was the ideal in both in grace and spirit. Muhammad was a barbarian that led or organized 65 brutal military campaigns to further his religion. Jesus fed the poor and healed the sick. Muhammad gave into the sins of the flesh, both adult and child, concentual or forced.I'm not a Catholic or anything, so don't quote me.Edit to add: come on, we all have to admit Jesus was cool

what you fail to appreciate is that everything we know about each was written by someone other than muhammad or jesus, i.e., each story was written to help justify the reactions to the times. just because one was dealing with rome and the other with rogue tribes explains the context. the overreaching attempt by either side simply proves that most don't think critically about these issues.

Unlike Jesus, isn't there actual evidence (outside of the Koran) that Muhammad existed?

yea, not sure what that has to do with the discussion between dude and i, but yes. though josephus the historian does mention a jewish leader named jesus, as well as the romans recorded crucifying jesus, but that was a popular name so the roman source is weak and josephus only mentions the existence of jesus, he offers not proof.still, that has little to do with the contextual times of muhammad and jesus, just saying.

 

[Johnny Detroit]

Jesus was the son of God, Muhammad was the son of God, you and I are sons of God. Jesus was the ideal in both in grace and spirit. Muhammad was a barbarian that led or organized 65 brutal military campaigns to further his religion. Jesus fed the poor and healed the sick. Muhammad gave into the sins of the flesh, both adult and child, concentual or forced.I'm not a Catholic or anything, so don't quote me.Edit to add: come on, we all have to admit Jesus was cool

what you fail to appreciate is that everything we know about each was written by someone other than muhammad or jesus, i.e., each story was written to help justify the reactions to the times. just because one was dealing with rome and the other with rogue tribes explains the context. the overreaching attempt by either side simply proves that most don't think critically about these issues.

Unlike Jesus, isn't there actual evidence (outside of the Koran) that Muhammad existed?

I am no fan of organized religion, but the no-proof for Jesus is old and tired. I suggest reading the book that chronicled the debates between Antony Flew (atheist) and Dr. Gary Habermas . Flew, unlike some atheist blogging in his mom's basement, his credentials are legit (taught at the universities of Oxford, Aberdeen, Keele and Reading, and at York University in Toronto). He debates the "fairy tale" end of the bible, but concedes the historical accuracy of Jesus without any question. Yeah, attack the walking on water and turning water into wine, but I the "Jesus not real" is weak. Sorry, off topic, but the "Jesus did not even exist" thing is silly.

 

[Jewell]

I also moved away from the Liberal position because of a lot of what I see here. I saw too many of my Liberal friends trying to stifle legitimate, fact based arguments by demeaning the source as bigoted or intolerant when there was no evidence of such. Unfortunately, in this world some statistics and facts do fall along racial/religious lines. Arguing based on those stats/facts in and of itself is not bigotry. We're stifling too many dissenting voices in this country with this nonsense, and I think it may come back to bite us on the ###.

(VIDEO)Im not offereing the video to say Europe is done, and I'm not offering it to say the same will happen here. I'm merely offering the video to emphasize my above position because I think it's an important one. These guys obviously agree, and hopefully it will carry more weight coming from these more credible sources.

And, yes, I realize most of you disagree. And, yes, I realize I'm a tool. Just give it a look.

 

[the moops]

?

 

[ScottyFargo]

I also moved away from the Liberal position because of a lot of what I see here. I saw too many of my Liberal friends trying to stifle legitimate, fact based arguments by demeaning the source as bigoted or intolerant when there was no evidence of such. Unfortunately, in this world some statistics and facts do fall along racial/religious lines. Arguing based on those stats/facts in and of itself is not bigotry. We're stifling too many dissenting voices in this country with this nonsense, and I think it may come back to bite us on the ###.

I read about the U.K. creating Shariah courts for civil issues between Muslims, and that's going too far. I agree that you can't appease or use kid gloves with Muslims, offer special treatment or anything like that, out of fear of reprisal such as the rhetoric used in the video. It's scary language. I said before that Muslims living in America are subject to American secular law, and I think that's the best we can do. You offer freedom for all and have a set regulatory process in place to stop abuses. I don't like that Comedy Central wouldn't air negative portrayals (or images at all, I think) of Mohammad for fear of death threats. But that's their choice. I think though, that the video does show extremists protesting. Any extremist living in America isn't going to much like our freedom of speech either, when it comes to being critical of their religion. But that's tough noogies for them, I guess. I think you have to rely on the levels of protection put in place, because it's the cost that goes along with freedom.

 

[the moops]

Russell Simmon's apartment which can be seen from ground zero.

 

[perry147]

The other mosque being built on hallowed ground...Murfreesboro!

In Tennessee, three plans for new Islamic centers in the Nashville area — one of which was ultimately withdrawn — have provoked controversy and outbursts of ugliness. Members of one mosque discovered a delicately rendered Jerusalem cross spray-painted on the side of their building with the words “Muslims go home.”

The Islamic Center of Murfreesboro became a hot-button political issue during this month’s primary election, prompting failed Republican gubernatorial candidate Ron Ramsey to ask whether Islam was a “cult.” Another candidate paid for a billboard high above Interstate 24 near Nashville that read: “Defeat Universal Jihad Now.”

Evangelist Pat Robertson weighed in Thursday, wondering on his television program whether a Muslim takeover of America was imminent and whether local officials could be bribed. (The mayor of the county where the Islamic Center is proposed called that idea “ridiculous.”)

The members of the Murfreesboro mosque, who say they have always rejected extremism, have been bewildered by the vitriol.

Saleh M. Sbenaty, an engineering professor who came to the United States from Syria for his doctoral studies three decades ago, gets misty-eyed describing the kindness his neighbors showed his family after Sept. 11. At one point, he recalled, he was in a shopping mall parking lot with his wife, who wears a hijab, and a group of locals made a point to stop and assure them they had nothing to fear.

The other day, however, as he was standing on the mosque’s 15-acre parcel of land just outside town, drivers honked and flipped their middle fingers in the air as they rode past.

“It’s tough to see that change,” Sbenaty said.

....

"What I sense is a certain amount of fear fueling the animosity," said Jim Daniel, a former county commissioner and former county Republican Party chairman, sitting down for lunch one day last week at City Cafe. Residents worry that "the Muslims coming in here will keep growing in numbers and override our system of law and impose sharia law."

....

About 1,000 people were there, and afterward, one of them, Sherry McLain, told a local radio station that she was worried about plans that had surfaced this spring for new Islamic centers in her town and two nearby communities.

"That frightens me," she said. "Something's going on, and I don't like it. We're at war with these people."

Fisher said the protest was a "a beautiful example of our democracy at work." But Lema Sbenaty, Saleh's 19-year-old daughter and an MTSU student, didn't see it that way.

"I don't think I've ever experienced anything like that," she said later. "You could see the hatred in their eyes."

Full story: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...ST2010082202944

Someone send her an invite to the FFA.

 

[Radio Free Homer]

Russell Simmon's apartment which can be seen from ground zero.

Leviticus 19:18

" Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against one of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD."

 

[ConstruxBoy]

Are you by chance Richard Jewell? That would be awesomely ironic.

Doubtful

I completely forgot he had died. Whoops.

 

[timschochet]

Here is part of an article by Pam Geller, the architect of this "scandal", from American Thinker. It is especially ironic that several of her essays appear in a magazine with that title, since it's pretty clear she is not one. A few paragraphs should be enough to present a flavor of her writing for everyone here. This is from June 16, 2010:

"The American President told me in confidence that he is a Muslim."

That was the claim of Egyptian Foreign Minister Ahmed Aboul Gheit, as reported in the May 2010 issue of Israel Today. According to journalist Avi Lipkin, Gheit appeared on Nile TV's "Round Table Show" in January, on which he said that "he had had a one-on-one meeting with Obama who swore to him that he was a Moslem, the son of a Moslem father and step-son of Moslem step-father, that his half-brothers in Kenya were Moslems, and that he was loyal to the Moslem agenda."

Obama allegedly said this in the context of reassuring Gheit that he would soon deal with Israel:

He asked that the Moslem world show patience. Obama promised that once he overcame some domestic American problems (Healthcare) [sic], that he would show the Moslem world what he would do with Israel.

Could this be true? Even if Gheit's claim isn't true, or was misreported, every country in the free world must be cognizant of the catastrophic sea change that has taken place in the leadership of the free world -- as witnessed by events over the past year. Barack Obama took an oath to protect and defend the Constitution, and yet whether he is a Muslim or not, he has undeniably gone around the world promoting Islam and Sharia (Islamic law).

And now, if what Gheit says is true, we know why.

The alleged exchange between Obama and Gheit would almost certainly have happened in early January 2010, when Gheit was in Washington, D.C. regarding "Mideast peace talks."

This is a devastating claim, and yet no media outlet is covering it. Remember, during Obama's campaign, I and others were excoriated for using his middle name. We were accused of implying he was a crypto-Muslim. We could not discuss his background, his Islamic schooling, his ties to Islam. However, I have meticulously documented his Muslim background in my soon-to-be-released book, The Post-American Presidency: The Obama Administration's War on America.

 

[McJose]

The other mosque being built on hallowed ground...Murfreesboro!

In Tennessee, three plans for new Islamic centers in the Nashville area — one of which was ultimately withdrawn — have provoked controversy and outbursts of ugliness. Members of one mosque discovered a delicately rendered Jerusalem cross spray-painted on the side of their building with the words “Muslims go home.”

The Islamic Center of Murfreesboro became a hot-button political issue during this month’s primary election, prompting failed Republican gubernatorial candidate Ron Ramsey to ask whether Islam was a “cult.” Another candidate paid for a billboard high above Interstate 24 near Nashville that read: “Defeat Universal Jihad Now.”

Evangelist Pat Robertson weighed in Thursday, wondering on his television program whether a Muslim takeover of America was imminent and whether local officials could be bribed. (The mayor of the county where the Islamic Center is proposed called that idea “ridiculous.”)

The members of the Murfreesboro mosque, who say they have always rejected extremism, have been bewildered by the vitriol.

Saleh M. Sbenaty, an engineering professor who came to the United States from Syria for his doctoral studies three decades ago, gets misty-eyed describing the kindness his neighbors showed his family after Sept. 11. At one point, he recalled, he was in a shopping mall parking lot with his wife, who wears a hijab, and a group of locals made a point to stop and assure them they had nothing to fear.

The other day, however, as he was standing on the mosque’s 15-acre parcel of land just outside town, drivers honked and flipped their middle fingers in the air as they rode past.

“It’s tough to see that change,” Sbenaty said.

....

"What I sense is a certain amount of fear fueling the animosity," said Jim Daniel, a former county commissioner and former county Republican Party chairman, sitting down for lunch one day last week at City Cafe. Residents worry that "the Muslims coming in here will keep growing in numbers and override our system of law and impose sharia law."

....

About 1,000 people were there, and afterward, one of them, Sherry McLain, told a local radio station that she was worried about plans that had surfaced this spring for new Islamic centers in her town and two nearby communities.

"That frightens me," she said. "Something's going on, and I don't like it. We're at war with these people."

Fisher said the protest was a "a beautiful example of our democracy at work." But Lema Sbenaty, Saleh's 19-year-old daughter and an MTSU student, didn't see it that way.

"I don't think I've ever experienced anything like that," she said later. "You could see the hatred in their eyes."

Full story: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...ST2010082202944

All southerners are like this.

 

[cubd8]

Some of you really are this stubborn? It's not about religion. It's about freedom of religion. Even if they bomb NYC again and the terror-plot headquarters is the new mosque, the mosque should stay as intended where intended.

For as simple as a question as that seems, it is a pretty tough answer. Don't we have freedom of religion? If you take personal feelings out, which is what conservatives say separate themselves from democratic thinking, then yes it should be built there. Logic prevails over emotion. Otherwise your just like the democrats

 

[saintfool]

All southerners are like this.

like what? muslim? if so then there is some serious self-loathing going on in dixie....

 

[McJose]

All southerners are like this.

like what? muslim? if so then there is some serious self-loathing going on in dixie....

No. They are all intolerant. You can look it up.

 

[Steve Tasker]

I can't believe we're still discussing this.

jon_mx 145MongoL3 124mad sweeney 113Statorama 103timschochet 98

Oh wait...yes, I can.

 

[mad sweeney]

I can't believe we're still discussing this.

jon_mx 145

MongoL3 124

mad sweeney 113

Statorama 103

timschochet 98

Oh wait...yes, I can.

And he's been gone for a few days too. Or he's John555.CANARD!!!!!

 

[timschochet]

I can't believe we're still discussing this.

jon_mx 145MongoL3 124mad sweeney 113Statorama 103timschochet 98

Oh wait...yes, I can.

Damn, I need to post more. Last place? Unacceptable!

 

[BobbyLayne]

Nice.African-American gets hooted on by a mob and confronted by a hard hat construction worker.

Muslim? No, but he kinda looked like one...sorta.

 

[ScottyFargo]

Among other things.http://www.ronpaul.com/2010-08-20/ron-paul...the-nyc-mosque/

 

[the moops]

From the Ron Paul link above

The House Speaker is now treading on a slippery slope by demanding a Congressional investigation to find out just who is funding the mosque—a bold rejection of property rights, 1st Amendment rights, and the Rule of Law—in order to look tough against Islam.This is all about hate and Islamaphobia.

 

[BobbyLayne]

That video illustrates why I have to call b.s. on folks who claim the whole "sensitivity" excuse or 'it's in poor taste' for opposing the Islamic Cultural center.If all it takes is a brown guy with a skull cap passing by for the facade to break down and make that crowd start foaming at the mouth, then there's no justifying their position, their motives become all too clear.

It's embarrassing.

 

[whitem0nkey]

"When will my fellow USAmericans finally grok this simple analogy?: Al-Qaeda is to Islam as the Ku Klux Klan is to Christian Protestantism." --Bradley Kuhn

This is not even close to true. The KKK was not a religious branch of Christianity and did not kill for god.I have drawn my conclusions of these so called moderate Muslims on how they are handling this issue. They are "stickin' it" to America and loving every minute of it.

thanks for replying, most avoid it.The KKK is a religious branch to Christian Protestantism like how Al-Qaeda is a religious branch to Islam

and i'm an atheist defending people talking to imaginary stuff/people/god(s)/....

I think they both are dumb using religion for hate/racism/bigotry

 

[datonn]

That video illustrates why I have to call b.s. on folks who claim the whole "sensitivity" excuse or 'it's in poor taste' for opposing the Islamic Cultural center.

If all it takes is a brown guy with a skull cap passing by for the facade to break down and make that crowd start foaming at the mouth, then there's no justifying their position, their motives become all too clear.

It's embarrassing.

It's completely embarrassing...MORE than embarrassing. I believe a lot of the people sincerely believe they are not illustrating ignorant, bigoted behavior when they are holding up signs like "Mosque supports Hamas" (or whatever that one woman's sign in the video said). I just wish that for every hour of HATE that they watch, read or spew, they'd spend even ten minutes learning a bit more about the issue from the other side of the aisle...spectrum...whatever. Listen to the other side for a while (people who don't agree with you), and see if your opinions on any of the issues move. And don't just pretend to listen or spend the whole time building your counter-argument...really l-i-s-t-e-n. TIA.

 

[Radio Free Homer]

The other mosque being built on hallowed ground...Murfreesboro!

In Tennessee, three plans for new Islamic centers in the Nashville area — one of which was ultimately withdrawn — have provoked controversy and outbursts of ugliness. Members of one mosque discovered a delicately rendered Jerusalem cross spray-painted on the side of their building with the words “Muslims go home.”

The Islamic Center of Murfreesboro became a hot-button political issue during this month’s primary election, prompting failed Republican gubernatorial candidate Ron Ramsey to ask whether Islam was a “cult.” Another candidate paid for a billboard high above Interstate 24 near Nashville that read: “Defeat Universal Jihad Now.”

Evangelist Pat Robertson weighed in Thursday, wondering on his television program whether a Muslim takeover of America was imminent and whether local officials could be bribed. (The mayor of the county where the Islamic Center is proposed called that idea “ridiculous.”)

The members of the Murfreesboro mosque, who say they have always rejected extremism, have been bewildered by the vitriol.

Saleh M. Sbenaty, an engineering professor who came to the United States from Syria for his doctoral studies three decades ago, gets misty-eyed describing the kindness his neighbors showed his family after Sept. 11. At one point, he recalled, he was in a shopping mall parking lot with his wife, who wears a hijab, and a group of locals made a point to stop and assure them they had nothing to fear.

The other day, however, as he was standing on the mosque’s 15-acre parcel of land just outside town, drivers honked and flipped their middle fingers in the air as they rode past.

“It’s tough to see that change,” Sbenaty said.

....

"What I sense is a certain amount of fear fueling the animosity," said Jim Daniel, a former county commissioner and former county Republican Party chairman, sitting down for lunch one day last week at City Cafe. Residents worry that "the Muslims coming in here will keep growing in numbers and override our system of law and impose sharia law."

....

About 1,000 people were there, and afterward, one of them, Sherry McLain, told a local radio station that she was worried about plans that had surfaced this spring for new Islamic centers in her town and two nearby communities.

"That frightens me," she said. "Something's going on, and I don't like it. We're at war with these people."

Fisher said the protest was a "a beautiful example of our democracy at work." But Lema Sbenaty, Saleh's 19-year-old daughter and an MTSU student, didn't see it that way.

"I don't think I've ever experienced anything like that," she said later. "You could see the hatred in their eyes."

Full story: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...ST2010082202944

All southerners are like this.

I know. I'm going to protest the construction of any Hooters north of the Mason-Dixon Line.

 

[McJose]

The other mosque being built on hallowed ground...Murfreesboro!

In Tennessee, three plans for new Islamic centers in the Nashville area — one of which was ultimately withdrawn — have provoked controversy and outbursts of ugliness. Members of one mosque discovered a delicately rendered Jerusalem cross spray-painted on the side of their building with the words “Muslims go home.”

The Islamic Center of Murfreesboro became a hot-button political issue during this month’s primary election, prompting failed Republican gubernatorial candidate Ron Ramsey to ask whether Islam was a “cult.” Another candidate paid for a billboard high above Interstate 24 near Nashville that read: “Defeat Universal Jihad Now.”

Evangelist Pat Robertson weighed in Thursday, wondering on his television program whether a Muslim takeover of America was imminent and whether local officials could be bribed. (The mayor of the county where the Islamic Center is proposed called that idea “ridiculous.”)

The members of the Murfreesboro mosque, who say they have always rejected extremism, have been bewildered by the vitriol.

Saleh M. Sbenaty, an engineering professor who came to the United States from Syria for his doctoral studies three decades ago, gets misty-eyed describing the kindness his neighbors showed his family after Sept. 11. At one point, he recalled, he was in a shopping mall parking lot with his wife, who wears a hijab, and a group of locals made a point to stop and assure them they had nothing to fear.

The other day, however, as he was standing on the mosque’s 15-acre parcel of land just outside town, drivers honked and flipped their middle fingers in the air as they rode past.

“It’s tough to see that change,” Sbenaty said.

....

"What I sense is a certain amount of fear fueling the animosity," said Jim Daniel, a former county commissioner and former county Republican Party chairman, sitting down for lunch one day last week at City Cafe. Residents worry that "the Muslims coming in here will keep growing in numbers and override our system of law and impose sharia law."

....

About 1,000 people were there, and afterward, one of them, Sherry McLain, told a local radio station that she was worried about plans that had surfaced this spring for new Islamic centers in her town and two nearby communities.

"That frightens me," she said. "Something's going on, and I don't like it. We're at war with these people."

Fisher said the protest was a "a beautiful example of our democracy at work." But Lema Sbenaty, Saleh's 19-year-old daughter and an MTSU student, didn't see it that way.

"I don't think I've ever experienced anything like that," she said later. "You could see the hatred in their eyes."

Full story: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...ST2010082202944

All southerners are like this.

I know. I'm going to protest the construction of any Hooters north of the Mason-Dixon Line.

Sent you a cool link on FB.

 

[John555]

I think the entire focus of people is very skewed on this issue. There is no fundamental problem with Islam. However, the religion has recently been hi-jacked by radical conservatives (not a shot at American conservatives, conservative/liberal have very different meanings in different places) for political gain. Instead of being suspect with Islam, we should see that the real issue is radicalism. Whether far right like the NAZI party of Taliban or far left Communists in Russia, radicals are the ones who are a threat to America. The more American backlash to Islam, the more we push the liberal and moderate Muslims towards the conservative power base. I think it is very important that America shows a great deal of tolerance towards peaceful, law-abiding Muslim citizens. By saying that an Arab Cultural Center/Mosque being built 2.5 blocks from Ground Zero is offensive or insensitive, implies that entirety of Islam is somehow responsible for or should hold some guilt over 9/11.

Since they are hiding the source of their funding and actually even lying about it, how do we know it is moderates behind it? The very provocative nature of this project at this particular location, the logical conclusion would be it is the more radical fractions of Islam who is donating to this cause. I would hope the moderate mulsims would be open to discussing alternative locations. So far this group has refused every efforts to have any discussion on alternatives. That does not sound moderate at all to me.

 

[John555]

That video illustrates why I have to call b.s. on folks who claim the whole "sensitivity" excuse or 'it's in poor taste' for opposing the Islamic Cultural center.

If all it takes is a brown guy with a skull cap passing by for the facade to break down and make that crowd start foaming at the mouth, then there's no justifying their position, their motives become all too clear.

It's embarrassing.

It's completely embarrassing...MORE than embarrassing. I believe a lot of the people sincerely believe they are not illustrating ignorant, bigoted behavior when they are holding up signs like "Mosque supports Hamas" (or whatever that one woman's sign in the video said). I just wish that for every hour of HATE that they watch, read or spew, they'd spend even ten minutes learning a bit more about the issue from the other side of the aisle...spectrum...whatever. Listen to the other side for a while (people who don't agree with you), and see if your opinions on any of the issues move. And don't just pretend to listen or spend the whole time building your counter-argument...really l-i-s-t-e-n. TIA.

The hatred and bigotry towards the right demonstrated on this forum is so outrageous. They wish to paint all the opposition with this broad brush based upon the actions of some angry mob or some sign that one person holds. That crap happens at leftist demonstrations too. When leftists act like raging lunatics that is praised by liberals as showing their passion for some issue. How many leftists demonstrations have flag burners in them? So by leftist logic is should be fair to call all leftist anti-American crazies.

 

[whitem0nkey]

if some one reads this in the year 20,000AD+ please realize not all off us Americans are racists.

 

[datonn]

The hatred and bigotry towards the right demonstrated on this forum is so outrageous. They wish to paint all the opposition with this broad brush based upon the actions of some angry mob or some sign that one person holds. That crap happens at leftist demonstrations too. When leftists act like raging lunatics that is praised by liberals as showing their passion for some issue. How many leftists demonstrations have flag burners in them? So by leftist logic is should be fair to call all leftist anti-American crazies.

1. Show me in my last post where I mentioned anything about the right at all. So are you assuming that all the fringe lunatics in the video are members of the "right," or did I miss a memo? 2. Just because there are fringe lunatics on the left (and they most-definitely are out there), that gives fringe lunatics on the right a free pass? Two wrongs make a right?

 

[Mario Kart]

Lots of crazy white people in that crowd.

 

[mad sweeney]

You guys sure he was black? Looked like he had a Puerto Rico or Cuban flag on a necklace. Would that make Afro-Cubo American?

 

[McJose]

That video illustrates why I have to call b.s. on folks who claim the whole "sensitivity" excuse or 'it's in poor taste' for opposing the Islamic Cultural center.

If all it takes is a brown guy with a skull cap passing by for the facade to break down and make that crowd start foaming at the mouth, then there's no justifying their position, their motives become all too clear.

It's embarrassing.

It's completely embarrassing...MORE than embarrassing. I believe a lot of the people sincerely believe they are not illustrating ignorant, bigoted behavior when they are holding up signs like "Mosque supports Hamas" (or whatever that one woman's sign in the video said). I just wish that for every hour of HATE that they watch, read or spew, they'd spend even ten minutes learning a bit more about the issue from the other side of the aisle...spectrum...whatever. Listen to the other side for a while (people who don't agree with you), and see if your opinions on any of the issues move. And don't just pretend to listen or spend the whole time building your counter-argument...really l-i-s-t-e-n. TIA.

The hatred and bigotry towards the right demonstrated on this forum is so outrageous. They wish to paint all the opposition with this broad brush based upon the actions of some angry mob or some sign that one person holds.

I totally agree