Radio Free Homer
Footballguy
Because we're secretly in favor of establishing Sharia Law in the US.
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Muslims in NYC Planning to Build Second Mosque Near Ground Zero (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Chadstroma
- Start date
the moops
Footballguy
If you can point to some examples of people protesting the building of a christian community center then maybe we can get somewhere.
McJose
Footballguy
It still isn't "half of the world's Muslim population". Why should we take your points seriously when you make statements (under the guise of 'fact') that simply aren't true?John555 said:Sorry, I should stay up to midnight to respond to everyone.But they have a point, more recent polls show support for terrorism has declined steadily since 9-11. It was up above 50% up until around 2005. But there is still evidence of strong support. Here is one from this year.
Currently, it is probably in the 20-30% range, but polling seems lacking and Pew skews their results a bit by wrapping religion into the question. Muslims are starting to be against suicide bombings in the name of Islam, but still large numbers support it as a tactic against US policies. And a real concern is that there is also budding extremism growing among the young Muslims in this country with some 25% supporting the use of suicide bombings against civilians. Considering there are well over 1 billion Muslims around the world (I believe they claim a quarter of the worlds population is Muslim), even at 20-30% that means there are over 300 million Muslims throughout the world who support bin Laden and the use of suicide attacks against civilians. I happen to be coming to the logical conclusion that the money for this project is coming overwhelmingly from those 300 million radicals. IMHO, liberals are giving them cover by supporting this project instead of condemning it as an ugly and divisive project that it is.
McJose
Footballguy
Although I don't really consider myself part of the "left" (I'm sure I am to most on the 'right') I can tell you that I support the freedom of religion regardless of which religion.Example: Those Westboro ham-heads? As disgusting as I find their message I fully support their right to promote it.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
I add little to these threads because certain posters - not naming names - have a tendency to drag them down into the ground.I'm not a member of "the left", so I don't know. I don't particularly care what religion someone is and I'll support their right to build a place of worship or preach their message. Please don't get all in my face about it though; there's nothing worse than someone who does that.
scoobygang
Footballguy
We can't answer because you're talking out of your ###. Nobody on the left is arguing that Christian congregations shouldn't be able to build community centers or churches. No matter how offensive we find their philosophies or actions.
Phurfur
Footballguy
It is not just the Mosque.Never mind, you'll understand when you get older.
mad sweeney
Footballguy
John's been doing it for awhile.
McJose
Footballguy
What a nozz.
timschochet
Footballguy
Because 100% of all liberals hate Christianity and everyone who is Christian. If you are Christian, your only choice is to be a conservative Republican, because all the liberals/leftists/Communists/Muslims/atheists/Jews/Buddhists/Hindus are your enemy.
perry147
Footballguy
Phurfur
Footballguy
Nobody on the right is arguing that Muslim congregations shouldn't be able to build community centers or churches. HTH
Phurfur
Footballguy
and you will never get it!What a nozz.
the moops
Footballguy
Oh really
drummer
Footballguy
If you are referring to Dems, well, they do go to Church too ya know.
McJose
Footballguy
Why not?and you will never get it!What a nozz.
Go DC Yourself
Footballguy
No, instead there are different reasons reasons used in different places to oppose them.
Parasailer
Footballguy
Just NIMBY right?
timschochet
Footballguy
Been to Tennessee lately?
scoobygang
Footballguy
I should have kept my original draft which mentioned the location element. Let me be more explicit. I think the clergy abuse scandal in the Boston diocese was a terrible, decades long crime against children. I think the Catholic Church's statements regarding women, homosexuals, and birth control are appalling. I still think the Catholic Church should be able to build churches and community centers anywhere in that diocese that is zoned for those types of buildings. I don't know anyone on "the left" who thinks differently. My analysis does not change when you convert Boston to Lower Manhattan, sex abuse to 9/11, or homophobia to "Sharia law." You're not upset because liberals treat Islam better than Christianity. You're upset because liberals don't treat Islam sufficiently worse than Christianity to satisfy your taste.
Well Christians haven't proposed any on a mass grave site lately. But there are things like this....
oneohh
Footballguy
Damn
the moops
Footballguy
So would it make you feel better if a bunch of lefties in here said that those protestors are idiots and there are better ways to get their point acorss?
You think liberals treat Christians and Muslims the same...
Christians are against gay marriage....Liberals are outraged and spew hatred towards these homophobe.Muslim countries kill thousands of gays for being gay.....Liberals, hardly a word outside of a few international gay organizations.Christians freely allow Muslims to build mosques virtually everyone except an area represented by less than 0.00002% of our country.....Liberals throw a fit.Muslims don't allow building of churches and kill Christians if they try to spread the Word.....Not a peep out of liberals.Despite the fact that Christians are far more civil, Liberals act as though there is some kind of moral equalilency. Reliatively speaking, Muslim countries are stuck in the dark ages of human rights. But liberals really don't seem to care about the abuses of women and other minorities. So what if Saddam was killing 50,000 innocent people a year, liberals wish to equate the 4,000 or so that have died each year during the war with those senselessly slaughtered by Saddam. If the Iraq War was about the abuses of Saddam Hussein alone, the war was justifiable. But no, we have to equate our actions to liberate their country with the acts of a ruthless dictator.
drummer
Footballguy
You're using Gay protesters against a Church in this? Seriously?
drummer
Footballguy
Didn't we already go over the whole bombing abortion clinics thingy?You think liberals treat Christians and Muslims the same...
link? Even assuming that that fairly characterizes leftist on this forum, did liberals use that one protest to demonize the whole movement like they do with mosque protestors or the stabbed Muslim taxi driver? The leftist zealots here are so quick to paint every conservative movement as a bunch of bigots based upon this silliest of things, like the guy who alledgedly spit on the Congressmen as he was shouting at him. One incident, one sign, one violent attack....and the whole movement and group is quickly condemned.
scoobygang
Footballguy
Let me put this as simply as possible, so that you might understand. I do not protest the actions of countries like Syria because I do not live in Syria. I do not vote in Syria. I have no say in what the government of Syria does and no means to be heard on the question.In the United States, my government represents me. Consequently, when my government kills people or discriminates against homosexuals or denies religious freedom, I speak out. I don't want a government that represents me to do those things, because I don't want ME to do those things.It is ironic that your supposed solution to this entire problem is that I should be more tolerant of the United States starting to resemble Syria. I greatly prefer the United States to Syria, in part because of the way we handle homosexuality, government power, and religous freedom. What Syria, or Iran, or Iraq does should have nothing to do with what we do. The only one trying to draw any equivalence between the two is you.You think liberals treat Christians and Muslims the same...
drummer
Footballguy
Someone burnt Palin's church down. Lots of churches get burnt down by arson.
drummer
Footballguy
So the churches burned in the South were just arsonists who arbitrarily picked their targets. BTW, what about the Gay protesters vs. the Church thingy again? Are you implying that Church attendees never protested against Gays?
Desert_Power
Footballguy
Christians don't "freely allow" muslims to build mosques, the Constitution does.
bigbottom
Footballguy
:applause:Let me put this as simply as possible, so that you might understand. I do not protest the actions of countries like Syria because I do not live in Syria. I do not vote in Syria. I have no say in what the government of Syria does and no means to be heard on the question.In the United States, my government represents me. Consequently, when my government kills people or discriminates against homosexuals or denies religious freedom, I speak out. I don't want a government that represents me to do those things, because I don't want ME to do those things.It is ironic that your supposed solution to this entire problem is that I should be more tolerant of the United States starting to resemble Syria. I greatly prefer the United States to Syria, in part because of the way we handle homosexuality, government power, and religous freedom. What Syria, or Iran, or Iraq does should have nothing to do with what we do. The only one trying to draw any equivalence between the two is you.You think liberals treat Christians and Muslims the same...Christians are against gay marriage....Liberals are outraged and spew hatred towards these homophobe.Muslim countries kill thousands of gays for being gay.....Liberals, hardly a word outside of a few international gay organizations.Christians freely allow Muslims to build mosques virtually everyone except an area represented by less than 0.00002% of our country.....Liberals throw a fit.Muslims don't allow building of churches and kill Christians if they try to spread the Word.....Not a peep out of liberals.Despite the fact that Christians are far more civil, Liberals act as though there is some kind of moral equalilency. Reliatively speaking, Muslim countries are stuck in the dark ages of human rights. But liberals really don't seem to care about the abuses of women and other minorities. So what if Saddam was killing 50,000 innocent people a year, liberals wish to equate the 4,000 or so that have died each year during the war with those senselessly slaughtered by Saddam. If the Iraq War was about the abuses of Saddam Hussein alone, the war was justifiable. But no, we have to equate our actions to liberate their country with the acts of a ruthless dictator.
Desert_Power
Footballguy
Let me put this as simply as possible, so that you might understand. I do not protest the actions of countries like Syria because I do not live in Syria. I do not vote in Syria. I have no say in what the government of Syria does and no means to be heard on the question.In the United States, my government represents me. Consequently, when my government kills people or discriminates against homosexuals or denies religious freedom, I speak out. I don't want a government that represents me to do those things, because I don't want ME to do those things.It is ironic that your supposed solution to this entire problem is that I should be more tolerant of the United States starting to resemble Syria. I greatly prefer the United States to Syria, in part because of the way we handle homosexuality, government power, and religous freedom. What Syria, or Iran, or Iraq does should have nothing to do with what we do. The only one trying to draw any equivalence between the two is you.You think liberals treat Christians and Muslims the same...
He's going to need a new alias after that.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
Scoob bringing the pain
the moops
Footballguy
Of course they should.
oneohh
Footballguy
Seems like that would be enough.
mad sweeney
Footballguy
You're do completely off base it's either hilarious or sad, usually both. Comparing what's going on in the US vs what other countries do. It's a gigantic canard. You whine and whine about being attacked and keep trying to find different ways to deflect with true, though unrelated topics like killing gays in Muslim countries. And somehow libs don't care because they're not out protesting it. That won't happen here. We're not a Muslim country. It's a moot point about Muslims here. They may nit become opposed to it, but they can't carry it out. And they won't be alone here in the US in being ok with killing gays. Plenty on your side are ok with it too. As for Iraq, you trying to make it out as z humanitarian issue after the fact is as ludicrous as everything else you post. We invaded them because they were supposedly a threat to us with their WMDs and chemical weapons and nuclear material and all the other lies. After it became clear none of our reasons were true the focus shifted publicly to freeing Iraq and providing them all kinds of services that your kind screams about being socialist if we do it here. 100,000 people were being killed in Rwanda, what did we do? Hold congressional hearings on the exact definition if genocide. So spare the massive BS post-failure Iraq Nobility Invasion nonsense. It was an oil related contrived invasion that killed hundreds of thousands. Would many of them died with Saddam still around? Sure, but dictators kill citizens every day and we don't invade every country. The further away from people like you this country gets, the better for everyone involved. What a mess.You think liberals treat Christians and Muslims the same...
Only if you think the government should look into the financing of every building/rehab.
mad sweeney
Footballguy
Btw, the mass grave site is two blocks away. HthYou think liberals treat Christians and Muslims the same...Christians are against gay marriage....Liberals are outraged and spew hatred towards these homophobe.Muslim countries kill thousands of gays for being gay.....Liberals, hardly a word outside of a few international gay organizations.Christians freely allow Muslims to build mosques virtually everyone except an area represented by less than 0.00002% of our country.....Liberals throw a fit.Muslims don't allow building of churches and kill Christians if they try to spread the Word.....Not a peep out of liberals.Despite the fact that Christians are far more civil, Liberals act as though there is some kind of moral equalilency. Reliatively speaking, Muslim countries are stuck in the dark ages of human rights. But liberals really don't seem to care about the abuses of women and other minorities. So what if Saddam was killing 50,000 innocent people a year, liberals wish to equate the 4,000 or so that have died each year during the war with those senselessly slaughtered by Saddam. If the Iraq War was about the abuses of Saddam Hussein alone, the war was justifiable. But no, we have to equate our actions to liberate their country with the acts of a ruthless dictator.
What do you suggest they should do? Should warrants be issued? What's the probable cause? John555's opinion?
oneohh
Footballguy
So if certain fears actually are realized, and the government had the power and position to investigate and potentially prevent, but did nothing, isn't that a problem?
the moops
Footballguy
I would imagine that the gov't (city or state or feds) look into any large construction project and try and figure out where the funding is from. Dont they?
squistion
Footballguy
If so, I doubt it will be John666
scoobygang
Footballguy
No. The government may have an interest in seeing that the money doesn't flow the other way so that they're supporting terrorist activities, and we have material support statutes that prevent this. But if Hamas or Al Qaeda want to build a Burger King, there's no government interest in stopping them from doing something legal. You may want to know where the money comes from, and even to protest the mosque/community center/Burger King if you aren't satisfied in the source. But I fail to see how it's the government's job to investigate that for you.FWIW, if law enforcement wants to find where terror cells congregate and organize, it's heck of a lot easier infiltrating mosques than figuring out whether they're in the Radio Shack or the Sbarro. You're not eliminating the terror cell by elimanating the mosque, you're just driving it elsewhere and making the organization even more decentralized and harder to infiltrate.
oneohh
Footballguy
You fail to see how it's the government's job to protect citizens?
What power do they have to investigate the financing?
scoobygang
Footballguy
I fail to see how preventing Hamas from funding a mosque protects citizens. Let's say John Gotti wants to whack Andrew Cuomo. He also wants to finance a family style pizza parlor. Stopping the pizza parlor has nothing to do with stopping the murder of Andrew Cuomo. We don't make every Shakey's franchise prove that it's not financed with mob money.
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