Muslims in NYC Planning to Build Second Mosque Near Ground Zero (1 Viewer)

[MongoL3]

Actually i do. I think we have MANY muslims in this coutnry right now who hate us. A lot of it comes from the Muslim leadership. If you are a young Muslim and hear from leaders that you have to Jihad and kill americans or you arent a good muslim how do you think they take that? I cant really blame them, its a good brainwashing job they are getting.

We aren't going to get anywhere on the "all Muslims are evil" front, but I do have a question for you:In your opinion (regardless of what 100% you think hate us) why do you believe these people hate us, and how are they a threat to our way of life?

Why do i think Muslims hate our country? Probably because we have always backed Israel. Im sure they arent fond of our governments policies concerning them over the many years. How are they a threat to our way of life? Well, seems like they are plotting terrorists attacks non stop. Im sure they would love to get their hands on a nuke. I would consider these to be threats, wouldnt you?

 

[Statorama]

Once again, how far away should a potential mosque be?

That was something that my wife and I were talking about. For the people who oppose it, is there a safe distance from Ground Zero where this would be allowed? 10 blocks? 30 blocks? not in Manhattan? not in NYC?

I'd be fine with a 5 mile radius

 

[GroveDiesel]

So I'm on vacation with the family and asked my sister, who lives in lower Manhattan, what people around there think about it. Needless to say, the vast majority of residents and workers have very different opinions than peens and jon_mx.

But then again, New Yorkers aren't "real Americans" anyway.

You're informal little poll would seem to contradict all of the actual professionally done polls so far. All of which should that over 50% of NYC residents oppose the mosque.

Shouldn't matter if 100% of them oppose it.

I'm not saying it does. Josie is the one trying to make some point by citing public opinion. I was just pointing out that his post is completely wrong and that public opinion in NYC is quite the opposite of what he states is the truth. So whatever point he is trying to make is completely moot right off the bat.

hmmmm... so your public opinion trumps his public opinion. gotcha.fwiw- I live(d) in lower manhattan (stupid fire) and haven't met a soul- literally, not one person- who thinks that mosque should not be there.

somebody else asked- if it's about proximity, how close should the mosque be if it's current location is too close? 4 blocks? 10 blocks? 20 blocks? 40 blocks? seriously.

"My" opinion polls? I haven't done any polls. But every professionally done opinion poll of NYers shows over 50% opposing the mosque. That's a little different than you talking to all of your like-minded friends. Do a simple Google search and let me know if you find a professional poll that says otherwise.Sorry, but a professionally done poll involving 1000+ respondents DOES trump your polling of your friends. Polls aren't the end all be all and I distrust them a great amount of time, but comparing a poll done by a polling organization and polling done by a board member, I think we know which one carries more weight.

The fact that I'm being forced to defend that concept is ridiculous.

I'm not even saying that that opinion should even mean anything in the while mosque controversy. I'm simply saying that Josie's point had no basis in reality.

 

[MongoL3]

Once again, how far away should a potential mosque be?

That was something that my wife and I were talking about. For the people who oppose it, is there a safe distance from Ground Zero where this would be allowed? 10 blocks? 30 blocks? not in Manhattan? not in NYC?

I dont have an answer for that. It shows bad taste that they build it there. Since they have chosen that spot it makes me think they are snubbing their nose at us and laughing all the way....Hard to fault them, they see how stupid we are as a country always being tied up in political correctness knots.

 

[Smack Tripper]

Once again, how far away should a potential mosque be?

That was something that my wife and I were talking about. For the people who oppose it, is there a safe distance from Ground Zero where this would be allowed? 10 blocks? 30 blocks? not in Manhattan? not in NYC?

I'd be fine with a 5 mile radius

Would you be surpised if I told you there were 8 mosques already within 5 miles of 7 WTC? Thats just a quick yahoo local search.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Actually i do. I think we have MANY muslims in this coutnry right now who hate us. A lot of it comes from the Muslim leadership. If you are a young Muslim and hear from leaders that you have to Jihad and kill americans or you arent a good muslim how do you think they take that? I cant really blame them, its a good brainwashing job they are getting.

We aren't going to get anywhere on the "all Muslims are evil" front, but I do have a question for you:

In your opinion (regardless of what 100% you think hate us) why do you believe these people hate us, and how are they a threat to our way of life?

Why do i think Muslims hate our country? Probably because we have always backed Israel. Im sure they arent fond of our governments policies concerning them over the many years. How are they a threat to our way of life? Well, seems like they are plotting terrorists attacks non stop. Im sure they would love to get their hands on a nuke. I would consider these to be threats, wouldnt you?

Threats? sure. I just don't think we would agree on the severity of these threats to us. I just always raise an eyebrow when people say they are a threat to our "way of life". It's as if people believe if there are a couple terrorist attacks they are afraid the whole country will turn Muslim and start chopping off each other's heads. How is the way we live our lives going to change?

There are constant terrorist threats (we've had a few from our own citizens too..), there always has been, and there always will be. We need to be aware of the threats, but it doesn't help to turn into bigots start thinking all Muslims are the stereotypical type you see in cheesy movies like True Lies.

I just don't get how you can post the first statement, realize that they aren't fond of our governments policies (which probably don't concern the majority of Muslims in the world), and turn it into the fact that most Muslims hate us and want to blow us up. There is a serious disconnect there, and it unnerves me because I think there are more people out there that think this than I would like to admit.

 

[MongoL3]

Maybe you should start a blog.

peenshatesfagsmuslimsgays.wordpress.com?

Just because im not in favor of gay marriage doesnt mean i hate gays, come on man, get real I do have a much tougher time turning the other cheek when muslims fly planes into our buildings or capturing civilians and military and beheading them on tape. Sorry, for my intolerance

And you genuinely feel this represents the majority of that religion?

Do you see many Muslims speaking out against? I certainly dont...

 

[Christo]

Once again, how far away should a potential mosque be?

That was something that my wife and I were talking about. For the people who oppose it, is there a safe distance from Ground Zero where this would be allowed? 10 blocks? 30 blocks? not in Manhattan? not in NYC?

I'd be fine with a 5 mile radius

Would you be surpised if I told you there were 8 mosques already within 5 miles of 7 WTC? Thats just a quick yahoo local search.

I don't understand this argument. So there are 5 mosques already within 5 miles of the WTC. So what? No one's asking that they be torn down. Some people are just saying it's too soon to build another mosque that close. This is about symbolism.

 

[timschochet]

Once again, how far away should a potential mosque be?

That was something that my wife and I were talking about. For the people who oppose it, is there a safe distance from Ground Zero where this would be allowed? 10 blocks? 30 blocks? not in Manhattan? not in NYC?

Mecca?

 

[the moops]

This is about symbolism.

I find it to be positive symbolism.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Once again, how far away should a potential mosque be?

That was something that my wife and I were talking about. For the people who oppose it, is there a safe distance from Ground Zero where this would be allowed? 10 blocks? 30 blocks? not in Manhattan? not in NYC?

I'd be fine with a 5 mile radius

Would you be surpised if I told you there were 8 mosques already within 5 miles of 7 WTC? Thats just a quick yahoo local search.

I don't understand this argument. So there are 5 mosques already within 5 miles of the WTC. So what? No one's asking that they be torn down. Some people are just saying it's too soon to build another mosque that close. This is about symbolism.

It's like the radius question - what's too soon - a decade? quarter century? century?

 

[Christo]

This is about symbolism.

I find it to be positive symbolism.

And others don't. It's opinion, not fact.

 

[MongoL3]

Actually i do. I think we have MANY muslims in this coutnry right now who hate us. A lot of it comes from the Muslim leadership. If you are a young Muslim and hear from leaders that you have to Jihad and kill americans or you arent a good muslim how do you think they take that? I cant really blame them, its a good brainwashing job they are getting.

We aren't going to get anywhere on the "all Muslims are evil" front, but I do have a question for you:

In your opinion (regardless of what 100% you think hate us) why do you believe these people hate us, and how are they a threat to our way of life?

Why do i think Muslims hate our country? Probably because we have always backed Israel. Im sure they arent fond of our governments policies concerning them over the many years. How are they a threat to our way of life? Well, seems like they are plotting terrorists attacks non stop. Im sure they would love to get their hands on a nuke. I would consider these to be threats, wouldnt you?

Threats? sure. I just don't think we would agree on the severity of these threats to us. I just always raise an eyebrow when people say they are a threat to our "way of life". It's as if people believe if there are a couple terrorist attacks they are afraid the whole country will turn Muslim and start chopping off each other's heads. How is the way we live our lives going to change?

There are constant terrorist threats (we've had a few from our own citizens too..), there always has been, and there always will be. We need to be aware of the threats, but it doesn't help to turn into bigots start thinking all Muslims are the stereotypical type you see in cheesy movies like True Lies.

I just don't get how you can post the first statement, realize that they aren't fond of our governments policies (which probably don't concern the majority of Muslims in the world), and turn it into the fact that most Muslims hate us and want to blow us up. There is a serious disconnect there, and it unnerves me because I think there are more people out there that think this than I would like to admit.

Well, it unnerves me that you can easily brush 9/11, whats going on with Iran as well as the rest of the ME aside so easily.

 

[Smack Tripper]

Once again, how far away should a potential mosque be?

That was something that my wife and I were talking about. For the people who oppose it, is there a safe distance from Ground Zero where this would be allowed? 10 blocks? 30 blocks? not in Manhattan? not in NYC?

I dont have an answer for that. It shows bad taste that they build it there. Since they have chosen that spot it makes me think they are snubbing their nose at us and laughing all the way....Hard to fault them, they see how stupid we are as a country always being tied up in political correctness knots.

Ok, so we can concede its not distance, but its message and intent. And Peens, I don't inherently disagree with you. But to legislatively close this door based on a dispute with speech or repression of religion is quite short sighted. These are some vaguely activist nudnyk Muslims who've already had too much of their message and intent dissemenated through this debate. We don't even know how far away is a proper distance, and believe me, I spent the fall working in the area where this is being discussed, its location is such a non-issue dead zone of a spot relative to ground zero. You know why its available? Because its failed retail. Because there is no foot traffic and NO ONE GOES THERE. You could have opened this thing with bells, whistles, neon and women in burkas grinding on poles and it wouldn't have gotten the attention the red staters have given it. Because they aren't familiar with things here. Frankly, the most surpising thing about all of this to me is, that it got past Shelly Silver's desk. For those who don't know, basically no work happens anywhere in Manhttan without going through the Manhattan borough President's office. He's created further buffers of zoning in agencies like the Downtown Alliance which supervise and check in on most work happening down town. For those citing this as a constituional issue, its not. The constitution doesn't apply to NYC real estate, going back to Robert Moses. For some way, some how, these guys have been able to craft fifedoms to control, so this thing basically didn't go unless he wanted it to go. The use of "landmarks" is such a dubious and mysterious one, given buildings that get the distinction and those that don't, in NYC, its a joke. If there's ire about this, it should go to Silver, but for some reason, as always, he skates. But when someone writes a history of NYC in and around the Giuliani years, he'll be a MAJOR part of it, and he's really more powerful than Bloomberg on an issue like this.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Once again, how far away should a potential mosque be?

That was something that my wife and I were talking about. For the people who oppose it, is there a safe distance from Ground Zero where this would be allowed? 10 blocks? 30 blocks? not in Manhattan? not in NYC?

I'd be fine with a 5 mile radius

Would you be surpised if I told you there were 8 mosques already within 5 miles of 7 WTC? Thats just a quick yahoo local search.

Then they really don't need another one, do they? 5 miles is pretty far when we're talking about Manhattan. How about just going with outside the area that's actually designated as Ground Zero?I don't have a huge issue with this, but I am definitely suspect of the true motivations involved. If they really were doing this to build a bridge with the West, I would think an inter-faith center or Education Center for Islamic Moderation would seem to fit that mold better than just a mosque. But constitutionally and legally, I don't see how it could possibly be stopped. Just because something is unseemly doesn't make it illegal. I just think that people are also well within their rights to question the motives and source of financing too.

 

[Christo]

Would you be surpised if I told you there were 8 mosques already within 5 miles of 7 WTC? Thats just a quick yahoo local search.

I don't understand this argument. So there are 5 mosques already within 5 miles of the WTC. So what? No one's asking that they be torn down. Some people are just saying it's too soon to build another mosque that close. This is about symbolism.

It's like the radius question - what's too soon - a decade? quarter century? century?

It's going to be different for different people. Some are perfectly fine with it now. Others would say never.

 

[MongoL3]

Once again, how far away should a potential mosque be?

That was something that my wife and I were talking about. For the people who oppose it, is there a safe distance from Ground Zero where this would be allowed? 10 blocks? 30 blocks? not in Manhattan? not in NYC?

I'd be fine with a 5 mile radius

Would you be surpised if I told you there were 8 mosques already within 5 miles of 7 WTC? Thats just a quick yahoo local search.

Then they really don't need another one, do they? 5 miles is pretty far when we're talking about Manhattan. How about just going with outside the area that's actually designated as Ground Zero?I don't have a huge issue with this, but I am definitely suspect of the true motivations involved. If they really were doing this to build a bridge with the West, I would think an inter-faith center or Education Center for Islamic Moderation would seem to fit that mold better than just a mosque. But constitutionally and legally, I don't see how it could possibly be stopped. Just because something is unseemly doesn't make it illegal. I just think that people are also well within their rights to question the motives and source of financing too.

 

[jamny]

Once again, how far away should a potential mosque be?

That was something that my wife and I were talking about. For the people who oppose it, is there a safe distance from Ground Zero where this would be allowed? 10 blocks? 30 blocks? not in Manhattan? not in NYC?

I dont have an answer for that. It shows bad taste that they build it there. Since they have chosen that spot it makes me think they are snubbing their nose at us and laughing all the way....Hard to fault them, they see how stupid we are as a country always being tied up in political correctness knots.

You could have opened this thing with bells, whistles, neon and women in burkas grinding on poles and it wouldn't have gotten the attention the red staters have given it. Because they aren't familiar with things here.

Where did the original opposition to the mosque generate from? "Red staters" or locals and those that lost loved ones on 9/11?

 

[Statorama]

Hey, it's like when we planted our flag at Iwo Jima. I'm sure the Japanese didn't like that very much either.

 

[Smack Tripper]

Once again, how far away should a potential mosque be?

That was something that my wife and I were talking about. For the people who oppose it, is there a safe distance from Ground Zero where this would be allowed? 10 blocks? 30 blocks? not in Manhattan? not in NYC?

I'd be fine with a 5 mile radius

Would you be surpised if I told you there were 8 mosques already within 5 miles of 7 WTC? Thats just a quick yahoo local search.

I don't understand this argument. So there are 5 mosques already within 5 miles of the WTC. So what? No one's asking that they be torn down. Some people are just saying it's too soon to build another mosque that close. This is about symbolism.

Symbolic of what?

 

[KarmaPolice]

Actually i do. I think we have MANY muslims in this coutnry right now who hate us. A lot of it comes from the Muslim leadership. If you are a young Muslim and hear from leaders that you have to Jihad and kill americans or you arent a good muslim how do you think they take that? I cant really blame them, its a good brainwashing job they are getting.

We aren't going to get anywhere on the "all Muslims are evil" front, but I do have a question for you:

In your opinion (regardless of what 100% you think hate us) why do you believe these people hate us, and how are they a threat to our way of life?

Why do i think Muslims hate our country? Probably because we have always backed Israel. Im sure they arent fond of our governments policies concerning them over the many years. How are they a threat to our way of life? Well, seems like they are plotting terrorists attacks non stop. Im sure they would love to get their hands on a nuke. I would consider these to be threats, wouldnt you?

Threats? sure. I just don't think we would agree on the severity of these threats to us. I just always raise an eyebrow when people say they are a threat to our "way of life". It's as if people believe if there are a couple terrorist attacks they are afraid the whole country will turn Muslim and start chopping off each other's heads. How is the way we live our lives going to change?

There are constant terrorist threats (we've had a few from our own citizens too..), there always has been, and there always will be. We need to be aware of the threats, but it doesn't help to turn into bigots start thinking all Muslims are the stereotypical type you see in cheesy movies like True Lies.

I just don't get how you can post the first statement, realize that they aren't fond of our governments policies (which probably don't concern the majority of Muslims in the world), and turn it into the fact that most Muslims hate us and want to blow us up. There is a serious disconnect there, and it unnerves me because I think there are more people out there that think this than I would like to admit.

Well, it unnerves me that you can easily brush 9/11, whats going on with Iran as well as the rest of the ME aside so easily.

How am I brushing off 9/11 or what's going on in the ME by refusing to group everybody of one faith into the same group?

 

[KarmaPolice]

Would you be surpised if I told you there were 8 mosques already within 5 miles of 7 WTC? Thats just a quick yahoo local search.

I don't understand this argument. So there are 5 mosques already within 5 miles of the WTC. So what? No one's asking that they be torn down. Some people are just saying it's too soon to build another mosque that close. This is about symbolism.

It's like the radius question - what's too soon - a decade? quarter century? century?

It's going to be different for different people. Some are perfectly fine with it now. Others would say never.

My feeling is that it's never going to be long enough and never going to be far enough away. That starts to point to a level of intolerance I don't think is healthy for us to convey to the world.

 

[MongoL3]

KP,

I dont believe for one second that ALL muslims share the same belief concerning the united states with concern of Jihad. The problem is we have no way of knowing until it is too late who does share that belief. It certainly would help if Muslims living here would actually condem the actions of the muslims in the ME but i never hear squat from them. I watch the news daily and stay informed on the internet so its not like im missing them speaking out. Must be a conspiracy by our media to keep quiet on that.

 

[urbanhack]

Hey, it's like when we planted our flag at Iwo Jima. I'm sure the Japanese didn't like that very much either.

What country are we talking about in this case?

 

[KarmaPolice]

Maybe you should start a blog.

peenshatesfagsmuslimsgays.wordpress.com?

Just because im not in favor of gay marriage doesnt mean i hate gays, come on man, get real I do have a much tougher time turning the other cheek when muslims fly planes into our buildings or capturing civilians and military and beheading them on tape. Sorry, for my intolerance

And you genuinely feel this represents the majority of that religion?

Do you see many Muslims speaking out against? I certainly dont...

I feel as though I am living on a different planet than you are:

Link

Link

There were countless demonstrations, vigils, statements, etc.. after 9/11. The whole world was behind us - it's sad you didn't or can't see that.

 

[urbanhack]

KP,I dont believe for one second that ALL muslims share the same belief concerning the united states with concern of Jihad. The problem is we have no way of knowing until it is too late who does share that belief.

Same thing with white guys and child molesting.

 

[Statorama]

Hey, it's like when we planted our flag at Iwo Jima. I'm sure the Japanese didn't like that very much either.

What country are we talking about in this case?

Last I looked New York was part of the United States. HTH.

 

[urbanhack]

Hey, it's like when we planted our flag at Iwo Jima. I'm sure the Japanese didn't like that very much either.

What country are we talking about in this case?

Last I looked New York was part of the United States. HTH.

What country is planting the flag in this case?

 

[MongoL3]

KP,I dont believe for one second that ALL muslims share the same belief concerning the united states with concern of Jihad. The problem is we have no way of knowing until it is too late who does share that belief.

Same thing with white guys and child molesting.

Dont forget serial killing....

 

[Smack Tripper]

Once again, how far away should a potential mosque be?

That was something that my wife and I were talking about. For the people who oppose it, is there a safe distance from Ground Zero where this would be allowed? 10 blocks? 30 blocks? not in Manhattan? not in NYC?

I'd be fine with a 5 mile radius

Would you be surpised if I told you there were 8 mosques already within 5 miles of 7 WTC? Thats just a quick yahoo local search.

Then they really don't need another one, do they? 5 miles is pretty far when we're talking about Manhattan. How about just going with outside the area that's actually designated as Ground Zero?I don't have a huge issue with this, but I am definitely suspect of the true motivations involved. If they really were doing this to build a bridge with the West, I would think an inter-faith center or Education Center for Islamic Moderation would seem to fit that mold better than just a mosque. But constitutionally and legally, I don't see how it could possibly be stopped. Just because something is unseemly doesn't make it illegal. I just think that people are also well within their rights to question the motives and source of financing too.

I'm not saying don't question and don't fight it if it really so fits you.I'm just saying as person who works in Manhattan frequently, and I don't know how many other people in this thread do based on the references and thoughts of geography and whatnot, that if these people are in fact doing this with an agenda in mind and the notion of getting their messsage out, well, mission accomplished. I don't know why its so ignored when the point is made, 9/11 actually did succeed, not because 4 planes crashed into 3 buildings and 2 collapsed. It succeeded because it set us off on an ugly, unAmerican road, where we take off our shoes at the airport and we have a patriot act to investigate drug dealers and basically any American if we so desire and secret courts and Rendition as a common practice in place of due process. And not only did we put our own head in the noose, we tied it and hung it. For whatever its worth, 9/11 wasn't a TV show to me. I watched those buildings turn to dust, pretty much right before I turned tail and ran from it. I came out spitting nails, ready to put Muslims in camps, nuke....whoever, and generally ready for a fight. But ten years later, I look at what this country became in light of, lets really get down to it here, an elaborate prank, and I'm left scratching my head. My greatest post 9/11 fear now is, we haven't learned a damn thing from it. Well, I take that back, we may have actually learned some bad habits. There will be another attack, there have already been attempts. People will die and that will be that. But I'll say this, I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees. And believe me, I work in NYC, mainly on the streets. I spent 6 weeks in Times Square right about where that other wackadoo wanted to blow up his car there. I was on top of the WTC 3 weeks before it collapsed. I and other people who live and work in NYC have to deal with this much more directly than anyone else, and if we can live with it, lets not everyone else freak out. If another 9/11 goes down, lets see it for what it is, instead of acting and fueling on rage. Rage has gotten us nowhere. Maybe dealing with this pragmatically will. I've always looked to the Brits on this front and their dealing with the IRA. Stuff would get blown up, people would die and it was right back to work, fix it up and move on. We still have a hole in lower Manhattan 10 years later and a ceaseless mourning and politicizing of, a really bad day. A day that will define a generation, or two. But in the end, it was just a day. We should just move on already. No one is saying forget the dead, but lets remember the living.

 

[timschochet]

I really wish George W. Bush would speak out on this issue. Though I disagree with much of his presidency, this was one issue he got right. He personally insisted that an Imam speak at the memorial service after 9/11 (going against the wishes of some of his closest advisors)- the same Imam who is behind this Cordoba project. W has been courageous in his insistance that we not hold Islam responsible for 9/11.

 

[Statorama]

My feeling is that it's never going to be long enough and never going to be far enough away. That starts to point to a level of intolerance I don't think is healthy for us to convey to the world.

So instead you want to convey a message of being a (kitten) to the rest of the world? That we can be kicked in the teeth and ask that they wear bigger boots next time?At the very least we need to send a message to the bad muslims. That their actions HURT the muslim community, not help advance it's cause.I'd just like to know where they're planning to build their next "mosque". Where the Sears Tower used to be? Where the Rose Bowl used to be? Where the Superdome used to be? Because the message we've sent to every muslim with evil intent is that wherever they do their dirty work, we're going to build a holy center for their people.All this ground zero mosque does is embolden "radicals". It provides a talking point for recruiting new jihadists. "Look dude, if you blow up a building, they will build you a shrine there"

 

[KarmaPolice]

KP,I dont believe for one second that ALL muslims share the same belief concerning the united states with concern of Jihad. The problem is we have no way of knowing until it is too late who does share that belief.

Same thing with white guys and child molesting.

Dont forget serial killing....

So the best course of action is to assume every white guy is a molester or serial killer and live in perpetual fear and anger?

 

[jamny]

9/11 was a success. We've learned nothing from it. Society is returning to a pre-9/11 mentality and we will be attacked again.

 

[MongoL3]

My feeling is that it's never going to be long enough and never going to be far enough away. That starts to point to a level of intolerance I don't think is healthy for us to convey to the world.

So instead you want to convey a message of being a (kitten) to the rest of the world? That we can be kicked in the teeth and ask that they wear bigger boots next time?At the very least we need to send a message to the bad muslims. That their actions HURT the muslim community, not help advance it's cause.I'd just like to know where they're planning to build their next "mosque". Where the Sears Tower used to be? Where the Rose Bowl used to be? Where the Superdome used to be? Because the message we've sent to every muslim with evil intent is that wherever they do their dirty work, we're going to build a holy center for their people.All this ground zero mosque does is embolden "radicals". It provides a talking point for recruiting new jihadists. "Look dude, if you blow up a building, they will build you a shrine there"

 

[MongoL3]

9/11 was a success. We've learned nothing from it. Society is returning to a pre-9/11 mentality and we will be attacked again.

Unfortunately we will have no one to blame but ourselves....

 

[Smack Tripper]

My feeling is that it's never going to be long enough and never going to be far enough away. That starts to point to a level of intolerance I don't think is healthy for us to convey to the world.

So instead you want to convey a message of being a (kitten) to the rest of the world? That we can be kicked in the teeth and ask that they wear bigger boots next time?At the very least we need to send a message to the bad muslims. That their actions HURT the muslim community, not help advance it's cause.I'd just like to know where they're planning to build their next "mosque". Where the Sears Tower used to be? Where the Rose Bowl used to be? Where the Superdome used to be? Because the message we've sent to every muslim with evil intent is that wherever they do their dirty work, we're going to build a holy center for their people.All this ground zero mosque does is embolden "radicals". It provides a talking point for recruiting new jihadists. "Look dude, if you blow up a building, they will build you a shrine there"

I would see it as the flipside.You want to compromise a way of life which has been a beacon to the world for 100 years as a land of freedom and opportunity because 23 guys got one over on us?Talk about being a gigantic kitten.

 

[Shtaym Syek]

My feeling is that it's never going to be long enough and never going to be far enough away. That starts to point to a level of intolerance I don't think is healthy for us to convey to the world.

So instead you want to convey a message of being a (kitten) to the rest of the world? That we can be kicked in the teeth and ask that they wear bigger boots next time?At the very least we need to send a message to the bad muslims. That their actions HURT the muslim community, not help advance it's cause.I'd just like to know where they're planning to build their next "mosque". Where the Sears Tower used to be? Where the Rose Bowl used to be? Where the Superdome used to be? Because the message we've sent to every muslim with evil intent is that wherever they do their dirty work, we're going to build a holy center for their people.All this ground zero mosque does is embolden "radicals". It provides a talking point for recruiting new jihadists. "Look dude, if you blow up a building, they will build you a shrine there"

I would see it as the flipside.You want to compromise a way of life which has been a beacon to the world for 100 years as a land of freedom and opportunity because 23 guys got one over on us?Talk about being a gigantic kitten.

omg this

 

[timschochet]

9/11 was a success. We've learned nothing from it. Society is returning to a pre-9/11 mentality and we will be attacked again.

It's not a success YET. But if we react to 9/11 by discriminating against Muslims in this country which is supposed to provide freedom of religion for all, then 9/11 will have become a complete success for the terrorists, because we will have turned into exactly the way they want to portray us to the rest of the Islamic world.

 

[Statorama]

Hey, it's like when we planted our flag at Iwo Jima. I'm sure the Japanese didn't like that very much either.

What country are we talking about in this case?

Last I looked New York was part of the United States. HTH.

What country is planting the flag in this case?

It's not a country, it's a religious cult.

 

[MongoL3]

9/11 was a success. We've learned nothing from it. Society is returning to a pre-9/11 mentality and we will be attacked again.

It's not a success YET. But if we react to 9/11 by discriminating against Muslims in this country which is supposed to provide freedom of religion for all, then 9/11 will have become a complete success for the terrorists, because we will have turned into exactly the way they want to portray us to the rest of the Islamic world.

Muslims here in the US are the ones that can change the perception. In all honesty they havent done a very good job....

 

[Statorama]

My feeling is that it's never going to be long enough and never going to be far enough away. That starts to point to a level of intolerance I don't think is healthy for us to convey to the world.

So instead you want to convey a message of being a (kitten) to the rest of the world? That we can be kicked in the teeth and ask that they wear bigger boots next time?At the very least we need to send a message to the bad muslims. That their actions HURT the muslim community, not help advance it's cause.I'd just like to know where they're planning to build their next "mosque". Where the Sears Tower used to be? Where the Rose Bowl used to be? Where the Superdome used to be? Because the message we've sent to every muslim with evil intent is that wherever they do their dirty work, we're going to build a holy center for their people.All this ground zero mosque does is embolden "radicals". It provides a talking point for recruiting new jihadists. "Look dude, if you blow up a building, they will build you a shrine there"

I would see it as the flipside.You want to compromise a way of life which has been a beacon to the world for 100 years as a land of freedom and opportunity because 23 guys got one over on us?Talk about being a gigantic kitten.

You have to make modifications, you have to adapt to a changing world. I'm not looking for some draconian Gattica type society, but damn man get your head out of the sand. We are at war.

 

[Statorama]

9/11 was a success. We've learned nothing from it. Society is returning to a pre-9/11 mentality and we will be attacked again.

Lucky for us the guys they've sent on trial runs (Shoe Bomber Richard Reid for example) were so damn inept that they couldn't pull it off.

 

[Statorama]

...and Smack, I think you're an awesome dude. Please don't take any of that as a personal attack on you.

 

[Jewell]

You want to compromise a way of life which has been a beacon to the world for 100 years as a land of freedom and opportunity because 23 guys got one over on us?

The clock got reset on that one with Korematsu vs. US (1944).Plus, I once dated a Russian girl who said that the Russian government loved to show the Civil Rights footage of American police beating down peaceful protestors to make America look bad.

Viewing the US as a beacon of freedom and opportunity for the last 100 years kind of depends on your perspective, but as the old saying goes -- Learn from history or be doomed to repeat it.

 

[the moops]

I'd just like to know where they're planning to build their next "mosque". Where the Sears Tower used to be? Where the Rose Bowl used to be? Where the Superdome used to be?

You and peens should build an underground bunker together.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

9/11 was a success. We've learned nothing from it. Society is returning to a pre-9/11 mentality and we will be attacked again.

Lucky for us the guys they've sent on trial runs (Shoe Bomber Richard Reid for example) were so damn inept that they couldn't pull it off.

Don't forget that winner with the burning crotch.

 

[Smack Tripper]

My feeling is that it's never going to be long enough and never going to be far enough away. That starts to point to a level of intolerance I don't think is healthy for us to convey to the world.

So instead you want to convey a message of being a (kitten) to the rest of the world? That we can be kicked in the teeth and ask that they wear bigger boots next time?At the very least we need to send a message to the bad muslims. That their actions HURT the muslim community, not help advance it's cause.I'd just like to know where they're planning to build their next "mosque". Where the Sears Tower used to be? Where the Rose Bowl used to be? Where the Superdome used to be? Because the message we've sent to every muslim with evil intent is that wherever they do their dirty work, we're going to build a holy center for their people.All this ground zero mosque does is embolden "radicals". It provides a talking point for recruiting new jihadists. "Look dude, if you blow up a building, they will build you a shrine there"

I would see it as the flipside.You want to compromise a way of life which has been a beacon to the world for 100 years as a land of freedom and opportunity because 23 guys got one over on us?Talk about being a gigantic kitten.

You have to make modifications, you have to adapt to a changing world. I'm not looking for some draconian Gattica type society, but damn man get your head out of the sand. We are at war.

With who? With what? Is the battlefield ground zero? Guess what, we're 0 for 2 down there. We're fighting insurgents overseas, not warriors. How does preventing a mosque from being built, going against any tennets of religious freedom or freedom of speech we hold, help us win this war?We are no more at war than we are at war with 30something white guys who would shoot up McDonalds

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

5 miles is pretty far when we're talking about Manhattan. How about just going with outside the area that's actually designated as Ground Zero?

It is outside the area that's actually designated as Ground Zero.

 

[Smack Tripper]

You want to compromise a way of life which has been a beacon to the world for 100 years as a land of freedom and opportunity because 23 guys got one over on us?

The clock got reset on that one with Korematsu vs. US (1944).Plus, I once dated a Russian girl who said that the Russian government loved to show the Civil Rights footage of American police beating down peaceful protestors to make America look bad.

Viewing the US as a beacon of freedom and opportunity for the last 100 years kind of depends on your perspective, but as the old saying goes -- Learn from history or be doomed to repeat it.

The US as a beacon is not a propoganda tool, its in the people. We have an entire world trying to move here to live for opportunity. If we opened the books on immigration, and let whoever wanted to be here be here, I have no doubt our population would double in six months, if not grow larger.

For as fubar'ed as things are and get around here, and as much as we can have, lets call it, cloudy involvement in other governments around the world, this is still the place that most people would want to be if they could be anywhere.

Not to blow this NY horn again, but there is such a broad and diverse immigrant population here, and when you take the time to talk to them, its almost a universal message, and believe me, the idea that the U.S. still represents that idea is very much alive.

Although, for the first time in my life, i saw it questioned over the 2005-7 era GWB.