Muslims in NYC Planning to Build Second Mosque Near Ground Zero (2 Viewers)

[BobbyLayne]

2. A few years ago, there was a movement to build a theme park near Gettysburg. The local townspeople felt that it would be demeaning to the war memorial, and got the city council to have it voted down.

Does anybody have a link to this? I keep looking but can't find anything.

It was PA, it was VA...Disney was behind it, believe it was to be near Manassas or Chancellorsville/Spotslyvania/Wilderness

 

[mad sweeney]

If you want to live somewhere less free, move. I believe in our founding documents which, like it or not, guarantee the freedoms in our country. Not for some, for all.

It's not a constitutional argument, it's a good taste argument. The people behind this mosque are showing poor taste and a lack of sympathy, that's all.No one in this thread is arguing that they CAN'T do it, just that they should show some respect/class and choose NOT to do it.

Many people here are arguing that We should stop Them from doing it.

 

[PrinceofDarkness]

I also want to point out that Obama's comments on this issue have once again proved his utter incompetence. First he comes out Friday night in support of the mosque, then he backs off (apparently having read the polls) and claims that just because they are free to do it doesn't mean that its a good idea. What an idiot.There is no doubt in my mind that Barack Obama is worse even than Jimmy Carter. He is the worst president we have ever had.

I didn't really read Obama's comments that way. This is what he said on Friday:

"Ground zero is, indeed, hallowed ground," Obama told attendees at the second annual White House Ramadan dinner Friday night. "But let me be clear: As a citizen, and as president, I believe that Muslims have the right to practice their religion as everyone else in this country. And that includes the right to build a place of worship and a community center on private property in lower Manhattan, in accordance with local laws and ordinances. This is America. And our commitment to religious freedom must be unshakable."

That is a pretty broad comment, and (go ahead and read it again) not really an endorsement of the mosque.And really isn't this the debate we are having here? They have every right to build a mosque there, but is it in good taste? Obama was just reaffirming the right.

 

[Statorama]

If you want to live somewhere less free, move. I believe in our founding documents which, like it or not, guarantee the freedoms in our country. Not for some, for all.

It's not a constitutional argument, it's a good taste argument. The people behind this mosque are showing poor taste and a lack of sympathy, that's all.No one in this thread is arguing that they CAN'T do it, just that they should show some respect/class and choose NOT to do it.

Many people here are arguing that We should stop Them from doing it.

Didn't seem to get that vibe in this thread, although I have heard the "we should block them by any means" argument on some far right wing websites. That's goofy.Although it will be interesting to see if they do a 60's style protest, like laying down in front of a bulldozer. Haven't seen a gold old fashioned protest in a while, and "the protest" is kind of a liberal thing. It would be funny to hear liberals losing their mind yelling that they don't have the right to protest.

 

[flufhed]

1. A few years ago, a group of Catholic nuns wanted to build a Christian shrine at Auschwitz. The plan was vetoed by Pope John Paul II, who felt that it would be inappropriate.

2. A few years ago, there was a movement to build a theme park near Gettysburg. The local townspeople felt that it would be demeaning to the war memorial, and got the city council to have it voted down.

3. I believe the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were perfectly justified. But if we (Americans) wanted to build an "American cultural center" at the site where the atom bombs were dropped, celebrating all things American, that would be both rude and offensive.

Dennis Prager raised all three of these points today, and they are all pertinent (IMO). He also mentioned that the Imam involved, far from being a "peacemaker", has actually publicly blamed America for 9/11. I can't believe there are people who are eager to see this happen.

1 - not on American soil nor does it need to abide by the American Constitution. Are you suggesting we look to foreign lands and how they rule on things to justify the rulings under our Constitution?2 - a theme park <> religious house of worship/community center? Is this even something to make note of?

3 - see number 1.

Are you're so far up Obama's ### that you can't see the parallel? Important figures in important places showing common sense with regard to controversial decisions.

So wait, Obama is supposed to USURP the Constitutiion now? Man, I am so confused.

 

[MongoL3]

If you want to live somewhere less free, move. I believe in our founding documents which, like it or not, guarantee the freedoms in our country. Not for some, for all.

It's not a constitutional argument, it's a good taste argument. The people behind this mosque are showing poor taste and a lack of sympathy, that's all.No one in this thread is arguing that they CAN'T do it, just that they should show some respect/class and choose NOT to do it.

Many people here are arguing that We should stop Them from doing it.

Legally we cant, but having the Pres use some damn common sense on this issue was apparently too much to ask, go figure...

 

[flufhed]

1. A few years ago, a group of Catholic nuns wanted to build a Christian shrine at Auschwitz. The plan was vetoed by Pope John Paul II, who felt that it would be inappropriate.

2. A few years ago, there was a movement to build a theme park near Gettysburg. The local townspeople felt that it would be demeaning to the war memorial, and got the city council to have it voted down.

3. I believe the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were perfectly justified. But if we (Americans) wanted to build an "American cultural center" at the site where the atom bombs were dropped, celebrating all things American, that would be both rude and offensive.

Dennis Prager raised all three of these points today, and they are all pertinent (IMO). He also mentioned that the Imam involved, far from being a "peacemaker", has actually publicly blamed America for 9/11. I can't believe there are people who are eager to see this happen.

1 - not on American soil nor does it need to abide by the American Constitution. Are you suggesting we look to foreign lands and how they rule on things to justify the rulings under our Constitution?2 - a theme park <> religious house of worship/community center? Is this even something to make note of?

3 - see number 1.

Are you're so far up Obama's ### that you can't see the parallel? Important figures in important places showing common sense with regard to controversial decisions.

There are parallels to this issue where people made common sense judgements and let good taste trump what they "could legally do".

Ok, fine.So where does that get us on this issue? Nowhere.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

This thread is gold. I love you peens.

He pushes the bigotry just far enough to look like your typical hick but not quite far enough to get hit with the ban hammer. Very impressive.

We all have our niche, I play the hick well. Give me props....

You are definitely smarter than the dumbest hick

 

[MongoL3]

Public pressure would work i would think...it seems to be envogue now anyway.

 

[McJose]

2. A few years ago, there was a movement to build a theme park near Gettysburg. The local townspeople felt that it would be demeaning to the war memorial, and got the city council to have it voted down.

Does anybody have a link to this? I keep looking but can't find anything.

It was PA, it was VA...Disney was behind it, believe it was to be near Manassas or Chancellorsville/Spotslyvania/Wilderness

Thanks. Found it at Wiki

The proposed park would have been built near Civil War battlefields, shattering the solemnity of the area, perhaps causing damage to the historical properties. Controversy further arose as claims were charged that Disney was participating in "corporate history" by selling knowledge of past events that would deliberately be skewed and toned down for entertainment and not historical accuracy. The site is now home to Dominion Valley Country Club, as well as numerous other business and housing developments, creating some of the congestion and environmental damage that anti-Disney activists fought against.

Why can't people get their stories straight?

 

[Christo]

Ok, fine.So where does that get us on this issue? Nowhere.

The day we are required to get somewhere at FBGs is they day they might as well just shut the place down.

 

[flufhed]

If you want to live somewhere less free, move. I believe in our founding documents which, like it or not, guarantee the freedoms in our country. Not for some, for all.

It's not a constitutional argument, it's a good taste argument. The people behind this mosque are showing poor taste and a lack of sympathy, that's all.No one in this thread is arguing that they CAN'T do it, just that they should show some respect/class and choose NOT to do it.

The Right is using this issue as a rallying cry to its base, to rabal rouse. That is what is so infuriating about it.Obama says the muslims have a first amendment right to build the mosque, and two days later, headlines read "OMG OBAMA SUPPORTS MOSQUE!"I will concede the idea is poorly conceived, at best disrespectful, and at worst a total F U to america. As long as you will concede that there is no political football here, because there is not a thing any politician can or should do about it.

 

[mad sweeney]

If you want to live somewhere less free, move. I believe in our founding documents which, like it or not, guarantee the freedoms in our country. Not for some, for all.

It's not a constitutional argument, it's a good taste argument. The people behind this mosque are showing poor taste and a lack of sympathy, that's all.No one in this thread is arguing that they CAN'T do it, just that they should show some respect/class and choose NOT to do it.

Many people here are arguing that We should stop Them from doing it.

Didn't seem to get that vibe in this thread, although I have heard the "we should block them by any means" argument on some far right wing websites. That's goofy.Although it will be interesting to see if they do a 60's style protest, like laying down in front of a bulldozer. Haven't seen a gold old fashioned protest in a while, and "the protest" is kind of a liberal thing. It would be funny to hear liberals losing their mind yelling that they don't have the right to protest.

As interesting as seeing conservatives reort to "hippie" methods while shouting about their rights after all this talk of trying to deny the rights of others. Humor aside, this is what should happen here in America. If a group does something within their rights then groups opposed should exercise their right to protest it within the law.

 

[tommyboy]

i say let them build it.

however, The President isn't very smart for opening his yapper. If he doesn't understand how a large number of Americans have a reason to not like Islamic anything he is living in a bubble. Not saying its right or wrong, just is.

 

[Statorama]

So wait, Obama is supposed to USURP the Constitutiion now? Man, I am so confused.

It would have been nice for the President to reaffirm that muslims should understand why people are upset by this, or at least let the people upset by this know that he "feels their pain".Clinton was a MASTER at this.

 

[MongoL3]

i say let them build it.however, The President isn't very smart for opening his yapper. If he doesn't understand how a large number of Americans have a reason to not like Islamic anything he is living in a bubble. Not saying its right or wrong, just is.

You'd think he would back up his own kind first, oh wait.....

 

[Burton]

If you want to live somewhere less free, move. I believe in our founding documents which, like it or not, guarantee the freedoms in our country. Not for some, for all.

Your side refuses to acknowledge any distinction between what can be done and what should be done. I would gladly fight for the right for you to burn an American flag. And if you dared do it in front of my face, I'd beat you to a pulp. Just because something is legal does not make it moral.

 

[mad sweeney]

If you want to live somewhere less free, move. I believe in our founding documents which, like it or not, guarantee the freedoms in our country. Not for some, for all.

It's not a constitutional argument, it's a good taste argument. The people behind this mosque are showing poor taste and a lack of sympathy, that's all.No one in this thread is arguing that they CAN'T do it, just that they should show some respect/class and choose NOT to do it.

Many people here are arguing that We should stop Them from doing it.

Legally we cant, but having the Pres use some damn common sense on this issue was apparently too much to ask, go figure...

I'm a bit confused. He used common sense, unless your idea of common sense is to violate the Constitution. Judging from the last administration, I can see how you'd be confused as to what that phrase means.

 

[tommyboy]

if you are really conservative, you realize that part of that means sometimes the gov't will do nothing when something you don't like is happening.

 

[Statorama]

As long as you will concede that there is no political football here, because there is not a thing any politician can or should do about it.

The smart ones are staying WAY AWAY from it.The Republican dude they had on the Today show talking about how Obama "inferred" that he supported the mosque (despite Obama saying nothing of the sort) sounded like an idiot.Patterson also jumped into the party late with his "we'll help you relocate" weak sauce.No winners in this whole thing. ETA: it is fun to talk about though.

 

[mad sweeney]

If you want to live somewhere less free, move. I believe in our founding documents which, like it or not, guarantee the freedoms in our country. Not for some, for all.

Your side refuses to acknowledge any distinction between what can be done and what should be done. I would gladly fight for the right for you to burn an American flag. And if you dared do it in front of my face, I'd beat you to a pulp. Just because something is legal does not make it moral.

Why would I burn the flag? You're the one that wants to use the Constitution as toilet paper because you don't like something it guarantees for all of us.

 

[oneohh]

1. A few years ago, a group of Catholic nuns wanted to build a Christian shrine at Auschwitz. The plan was vetoed by Pope John Paul II, who felt that it would be inappropriate.

2. A few years ago, there was a movement to build a theme park near Gettysburg. The local townspeople felt that it would be demeaning to the war memorial, and got the city council to have it voted down.

3. I believe the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were perfectly justified. But if we (Americans) wanted to build an "American cultural center" at the site where the atom bombs were dropped, celebrating all things American, that would be both rude and offensive.

Dennis Prager raised all three of these points today, and they are all pertinent (IMO). He also mentioned that the Imam involved, far from being a "peacemaker", has actually publicly blamed America for 9/11. I can't believe there are people who are eager to see this happen.

1 - not on American soil nor does it need to abide by the American Constitution. Are you suggesting we look to foreign lands and how they rule on things to justify the rulings under our Constitution?2 - a theme park <> religious house of worship/community center? Is this even something to make note of?

3 - see number 1.

Are you're so far up Obama's ### that you can't see the parallel? Important figures in important places showing common sense with regard to controversial decisions.

So wait, Obama is supposed to USURP the Constitutiion now? Man, I am so confused.

Get over yourself.

 

[McJose]

Your side refuses to acknowledge any distinction between what can be done and what should be done. I would gladly fight for the right for you to burn an American flag. And if you dared do it in front of my face, I'd beat you to a pulp. Just because something is legal does not make it moral.

Print this out.

Stand in front of a mirror.

Read it to yourself.

 

[flufhed]

1. A few years ago, a group of Catholic nuns wanted to build a Christian shrine at Auschwitz. The plan was vetoed by Pope John Paul II, who felt that it would be inappropriate.

2. A few years ago, there was a movement to build a theme park near Gettysburg. The local townspeople felt that it would be demeaning to the war memorial, and got the city council to have it voted down.

3. I believe the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were perfectly justified. But if we (Americans) wanted to build an "American cultural center" at the site where the atom bombs were dropped, celebrating all things American, that would be both rude and offensive.

Dennis Prager raised all three of these points today, and they are all pertinent (IMO). He also mentioned that the Imam involved, far from being a "peacemaker", has actually publicly blamed America for 9/11. I can't believe there are people who are eager to see this happen.

1 - not on American soil nor does it need to abide by the American Constitution. Are you suggesting we look to foreign lands and how they rule on things to justify the rulings under our Constitution?2 - a theme park <> religious house of worship/community center? Is this even something to make note of?

3 - see number 1.

Are you're so far up Obama's ### that you can't see the parallel? Important figures in important places showing common sense with regard to controversial decisions.

So wait, Obama is supposed to USURP the Constitutiion now? Man, I am so confused.

Get over yourself.

It's ok if you can't or don't want to explain the disconnect between your anger in the gay marriage thread and your anger at Obama/liberals/??? in this thread.Should an "activist judge" step in and stop the mosque from being built?

 

[oneohh]

It's ok if you can't or don't want to explain the disconnect between your anger in the gay marriage thread and your anger at Obama/liberals/??? in this thread.Should an "activist judge" step in and stop the mosque from being built?

No, this should be Obama's doing. But since he's too busy playing terrorist-apologist and condemning America, I doubt he'll ever step up.ETA: But if this gets taken care of (the mosque is not built) behind the scenes, and Obama comes out of it looking like he was protecting the Constitution all along, I think that's a fair trade.

 

[Tom Servo]

BREAKING NEWS: Muslim back down from Ground Zero mosque

FWIW

 

[MongoL3]

It's ok if you can't or don't want to explain the disconnect between your anger in the gay marriage thread and your anger at Obama/liberals/??? in this thread.Should an "activist judge" step in and stop the mosque from being built?

No, this should be Obama's doing. But since he's too busy playing terrorist-apologist and condemning America, I doubt he'll ever step up.

He's not a strong, proud american man..thats how the weak roll.

 

[MongoL3]

BREAKING NEWS: Muslim back down from Ground Zero mosque

FWIW

Blouses....

 

[PrinceofDarkness]

BREAKING NEWS: Muslim back down from Ground Zero mosque

FWIW

Well, on to the next topic. . . Good to see the Muslims had some sensitivity on the issue.

 

[Parrothead]

BREAKING NEWS: Muslim back down from Ground Zero mosque

FWIW

good for them.. lesson learned- sometimes just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should.. hopefully this eases tensions..

 

[McJose]

BREAKING NEWS: Muslim back down from Ground Zero mosque

FWIW

Blouses....

Sooooo they basically did what all of the opponents of the plan wanted and you're giving them crap about it?

 

[BobbyLayne]

BREAKING NEWS: Muslim back down from Ground Zero mosque

FWIW

Blouses....

purest form of awesomeness evah (and I was in favor of it)

OK, now what?

 

[MongoL3]

BREAKING NEWS: Muslim back down from Ground Zero mosque

FWIW

Blouses....

Sooooo they basically did what all of the opponents of the plan wanted and you're giving them crap about it?

 

[jon_mx]

BREAKING NEWS: Muslim back down from Ground Zero mosque

FWIW

Well, on to the next topic. . . Good to see the Muslims had some sensitivity on the issue.

If you call giving into enormous public opposition sensitivity...

 

[MongoL3]

BREAKING NEWS: Muslim back down from Ground Zero mosque

FWIW

Well, on to the next topic. . . Good to see the Muslims had some sensitivity on the issue.

If you call giving into enormous public opposition sensitivity...

Exactly, they didnt do it out of the goodness of their hearts, that im sure of...

 

[Statorama]

BREAKING NEWS: Muslim back down from Ground Zero mosque

FWIW

Still not a done deal, but a good reminder that loud voices with sensible arguments sometimes get heard.

(if that's a fake website, it's spectacular)

 

[MongoL3]

BREAKING NEWS: Muslim back down from Ground Zero mosque

FWIW

Well, on to the next topic. . . Good to see the Muslims had some sensitivity on the issue.

If you call giving into enormous public opposition sensitivity...

Oh the poor libs on this board, they must be very sad today.

 

[PrinceofDarkness]

BREAKING NEWS: Muslim back down from Ground Zero mosque

FWIW

Well, on to the next topic. . . Good to see the Muslims had some sensitivity on the issue.

If you call giving into enormous public opposition sensitivity...

Exactly, they didnt do it out of the goodness of their hearts, that im sure of...

So it was sensitivity to enormous public pressure, but sensitivity nontheless. (Because we all know Muslims aren't capable of doing things out of the goodness of their hearts, right Twiddle-Dee and Twiddle-Dumb?)

 

[Statorama]

If that story is true, I think Harry Reid deserves a lot of credit

WASHINGTON (AP) - Add another election-year hurdle for Democrats: President Barack Obama's forceful defense of the right of Muslims to build a mosque near the World Trade Center site.

His comments are giving Republicans a campaign-year cudgel and forcing Democrats to address a divisive issue within weeks of midterm contests that will decide the balance of power in Washington. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, in a competitive re-election fight, was the highest profile Democrat to move away from Obama on the matter.

"The First Amendment protects freedom of religion," Reid's spokesman Jim Manley said in a statement Monday. "Senator Reid respects that but thinks that the mosque should be built some place else."

 

[oneohh]

BREAKING NEWS: Muslim back down from Ground Zero mosque

FWIW

Well, on to the next topic. . . Good to see the Muslims had some sensitivity on the issue.

If you call giving into enormous public opposition sensitivity...

Gotta take the good with the bad. If this is true, if the mosque will not be built near ground zero and it's the Muslims taking the initiative, it seems like this could potentially be a tremendous positve in the relationship.

 

[MongoL3]

BREAKING NEWS: Muslim back down from Ground Zero mosque

FWIW

Well, on to the next topic. . . Good to see the Muslims had some sensitivity on the issue.

If you call giving into enormous public opposition sensitivity...

Exactly, they didnt do it out of the goodness of their hearts, that im sure of...

So it was sensitivity to enormous public pressure, but sensitivity nontheless. (Because we all know Muslims aren't capable of doing things out of the goodness of their hearts, right Twiddle-Dee and Twiddle-Dumb?)

Aaah dont be bittah, im sure another mosque will pop up somewhere in no time...

 

[Statorama]

Thank God that building can get back to being a crackhouse.

 

[MongoL3]

If that story is true, I think Harry Reid deserves a lot of credit

WASHINGTON (AP) - Add another election-year hurdle for Democrats: President Barack Obama's forceful defense of the right of Muslims to build a mosque near the World Trade Center site.

His comments are giving Republicans a campaign-year cudgel and forcing Democrats to address a divisive issue within weeks of midterm contests that will decide the balance of power in Washington. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, in a competitive re-election fight, was the highest profile Democrat to move away from Obama on the matter.

"The First Amendment protects freedom of religion," Reid's spokesman Jim Manley said in a statement Monday. "Senator Reid respects that but thinks that the mosque should be built some place else."

Lets give him credit for using some common sense, sheesh our barometer is low for politicians...

 

[Mario Kart]

I cannot wait to see the videos of proud Americans dancing in the streets all across America over this victory. I will stay tuned to Fox News for live feeds from spontaneous tea parties popping up.

 

[Parrothead]

I cannot wait to see the videos of proud Americans dancing in the streets all across America over this victory. I will stay tuned to Fox News for live feeds from spontaneous tea parties popping up.

 

[jon_mx]

BREAKING NEWS: Muslim back down from Ground Zero mosque

FWIW

Well, on to the next topic. . . Good to see the Muslims had some sensitivity on the issue.

If you call giving into enormous public opposition sensitivity...

Exactly, they didnt do it out of the goodness of their hearts, that im sure of...

So it was sensitivity to enormous public pressure, but sensitivity nontheless. (Because we all know Muslims aren't capable of doing things out of the goodness of their hearts, right Twiddle-Dee and Twiddle-Dumb?)

So when your side backs down you reach of the cheap shots.

 

[MongoL3]

I cannot wait to see the videos of proud Americans dancing in the streets all across America over this victory. I will stay tuned to Fox News for live feeds from spontaneous tea parties popping up.

 

[Statorama]

Twitter is ablaze that the story is not true.

 

[bigbottom]

I cannot wait to see the videos of proud Americans dancing in the streets all across America over this victory. I will stay tuned to Fox News for live feeds from spontaneous tea parties popping up.

 

[mad sweeney]

BREAKING NEWS: Muslim back down from Ground Zero mosque

FWIW

Well, on to the next topic. . . Good to see the Muslims had some sensitivity on the issue.

If you call giving into enormous public opposition sensitivity...

Oh the poor libs on this board, they must be very sad today.

Why? All the libs were asking is that the government not overstep it's bounds (seemingly a right wing talking point) and disallow people their religious freedom. If it's true then this is win-win, well, except for all the hypocrites who loudly wanted us to betray our founding fathers' dream (pssst...that'll be most of you doing the loudest cheering)