Muslims in NYC Planning to Build Second Mosque Near Ground Zero (3 Viewers)

[Statorama]

the people putting up this complex should feel guilty about the atrocities of 9/11 for some reason.

This isn't the most apt comparison, but if you were a member of the nazi party you should feel guilty for what happened even if you didn't burn anyone. You shouldn't go around saying "but...but....I was just supporting the party that made the trains run on time, not the radical element of the party"

 

[Statorama]

The majority of Americans do not want viral Islam or homosexuality to take over their country. I would bet most of those people would consider the Mexicans for the gays and Muslims a great trade. If you really want to lessen the power of any of these groups, simply ignore them. Gays are being celebrated and Muslims are being instigated. When you ignore them, you'll lose most of the fringe which will also lessen the strength of any vocal minority push.

Mexicans > Gays > Muslims?Do I have that correct? I think we need some sort of flow to keep track of which minority group is most detested by you folks.

Just watch who they bet the most money on at the boxing matches.

 

[Jewell]

No such thing as anti-location people. This isn't about a building going up in that location, it's about an Islamic building going up in that location.

Granted it's my opinion, but I've felt all along that by people making a big deal out of this building they are saying that all of Islam is the same and the people putting up this complex should feel guilty about the atrocities of 9/11 for some reason.

Sure it's about an Islamic building going up in that location as opposed to any other building, but that doesn't mean that you're against all Muslims. If that were to be the case, then why do many moderate Muslims support another location with similar arguments to many here?

Moderate Muslims oppose location of Cordoba Mosque — on religious grounds

Nearly 70 percent of Americans oppose building an Islamic house of worship near the site of one of the worst attacks on America — perpetrated in the name of Islam. Some moderate Muslims agree that the proposed location of the Cordoba Mosque near Ground Zero in lower Manhattan should be reconsidered.

Stephen Schwartz, executive director of the Center for Islamic Pluralism, told The Daily Caller that despite their relative silence on the issue, many Muslims question the placement of the mosque.

“This is not a humble Islamic statement. A mosque such as this is actually a political structure that casts a shadow over a cemetery, over hallowed ground. 9/11 was the beginning of a kinetic war, it is not an opportunity for cultural exchange. It was the beginning of a conflict with those who want to destroy our way of life,” Dr. Zuhdi Jasser, president and founder of the American Islamic Forum for Democracy, told The Daily Caller.

“I am in no way looking to infringe on First Amendment issues. I approach this as a Muslim that is dedicated to reform,” he said.

Jasser cited the Quranic verse, “Be considerate when you debate with the People of the Book [Jews and Christians],” and said that Muslims backing the project should be introspective during this month of Ramadan.

“From sunup to sundown Muslims are fasting and working on putting our needs tertiary to our God and our country, not what we need. They are abandoning these principles and saying, ‘Well, this is what we need and we are victims if you don’t let us do this. And we can do it, so we are going to.’ I think that is un-Islamic. That verse is one that teaches Muslims not only to be respectful but to actually treat equally other religions.”

Schwartz echoed Jasser’s concerns. He highlighted three problems with the project. “First of all, aside from the issues of conflict with jihad, Islam teaches us, especially Muslims living in non-Muslim societies, to avoid conflict with our neighbors,” Schwartz told TheDC. “We think this is an incredibly heedless project. It went forward without adequate planning or foresight, without anticipating reaction and it is absurd to think that there would not have been reaction. It is simply absurd. Second, there is the problem of Imam Feisal’s propensity to mix with radicals. And thirdly, there is a problem with the lack of transparency about money funding.”

According to Schwartz, Muslims are wary of entering the fray: “Muslims are talking but they are talking privately because the issue has become so divisive that Muslims are concerned about backlash and are hesitant to get involved. But people in the community are upset by this. They wonder, ‘How can they do this in such a heedless manner?’ … I really can’t think of anyone else who will speak on the record about this.”

Tarek Fatah, founder of the Muslim Canadian Congress, told TheDC that moderate Muslims have been silent on the matter, despite possible disagreements, due to religious concerns. According to Fatah, however, the need to avoid causing another person pain should trump such conflicts.

“There is a widespread belief among Muslim teaching that anyone who opposes the construction of a mosque, which is the house of God, is committing a sin,” he said. “So a lot of people who want to voice their opinion do not want to become a part of the controversy. But especially during the month of Ramadan it is important that our actions not cause pain to anyone. Any action by a Muslim that causes any pain to anyone else should be halted!”

LINK: The Daily Caller

 

[BobbyLayne]

the people putting up this complex should feel guilty about the atrocities of 9/11 for some reason.

This isn't the most apt comparison, but if you were a member of the nazi party you should feel guilty for what happened even if you didn't burn anyone. You shouldn't go around saying "but...but....I was just supporting the party that made the trains run on time, not the radical element of the party"

That is a horrible analogy.However, I like it, because its a beautiful thing when people mix up analogies and metaphors.Trains ran on time = MussoliniBoth Axis, but not quite the same, eh.

 

[the moops]

Stephen Schwartz, executive director of the Center for Islamic Pluralism, told The Daily Caller that despite their relative silence on the issue, many Muslims question the placement of the mosque.

This is your proof that many moderate muslims oppose the location?This guy refers to it as a mosque. It isn't a mosque.

 

[Statorama]

the people putting up this complex should feel guilty about the atrocities of 9/11 for some reason.

This isn't the most apt comparison, but if you were a member of the nazi party you should feel guilty for what happened even if you didn't burn anyone. You shouldn't go around saying "but...but....I was just supporting the party that made the trains run on time, not the radical element of the party"

That is a horrible analogy.However, I like it, because its a beautiful thing when people mix up analogies and metaphors.

Trains ran on time = Mussolini

Both Axis, but not quite the same, eh.

I admitted it was a stretch. But there are movements that started off as one thing and became something else altogether.(dang, knew I should have went with "I joined for the free Volkswagons!")

ETA: BTW, Snopes debunks the Mussolni train thing for what it's worth

(just wanted to share)

 

[BobbyLayne]

Stephen Schwartz, executive director of the Center for Islamic Pluralism, told The Daily Caller that despite their relative silence on the issue, many Muslims question the placement of the mosque.

This is your proof that many moderate muslims oppose the location?This guy refers to it as a mosque. It isn't a mosque.

Stephen Schwartz self-identifies himself as a neoconservative.Those guys are usually pretty moderate, right?

 

[timschochet]

The majority of Americans do not want viral Islam or homosexuality to take over their country. I would bet most of those people would consider the Mexicans for the gays and Muslims a great trade. If you really want to lessen the power of any of these groups, simply ignore them. Gays are being celebrated and Muslims are being instigated. When you ignore them, you'll lose most of the fringe which will also lessen the strength of any vocal minority push.

Because this is a serious post, I believe it may be the single worst one I have ever read in this forum. Well done.

 

[oneohh]

The majority of Americans do not want viral Islam or homosexuality to take over their country. I would bet most of those people would consider the Mexicans for the gays and Muslims a great trade. If you really want to lessen the power of any of these groups, simply ignore them. Gays are being celebrated and Muslims are being instigated. When you ignore them, you'll lose most of the fringe which will also lessen the strength of any vocal minority push.

Because this is a serious post, I believe it may be the single worst one I have ever read in this forum. Well done.

Apparently you didn't get to read any of that "novel" that was posted last week. But I'm curious, what's so bad about it, Timmay?

 

[Jewell]

You don't see the difference though? Disagreeing with someone's religious beliefs and making a reasoned, honest case in opposition vs. distrusting someone's "secret" motivations and saying whatever one needs to say (regardless of how untrue it might be) in order to get your way?

I see the difference, but so much of that is matter of perspective.First, I'm not opposing the mosque based on all Muslims' religious beliefs. (See my last post)

On that note, though, oneohh was just called a bigot for expressing anti-gay views, but there's been a reluctance to discuss the exact same views coming from the overwhelming majority of Muslims. Why? Likely because they've cloaked their position in religion and we're afraid to attack someone's religious beliefs. I am not. If someone's religious beliefs fly in the face of human rights they should be called on it and called on it more vociferously than they currently are. If not, this can happen...

British Muslims Have Zero Tolerance for Homosexual Acts

European Muslims Debate: Should Gays Be Executed?

Second, you criticize the practice of "distrusting someone's "secret" motivations and saying whatever one needs to say (regardless of how untrue it might be) in order to get your way?"

Once again, we're looking at a matter of perspective. Many on the anti-location side feel that sentence could just as easily be applied to the criticism we've received. I'm not blaming you here, Datonn, but there has been a cry from the Left that the "secret" motivation of all those that oppose the location is racism, bigotry, intolerance, or some nice combination of all three. This position has been put forth "regardless of how true it might be in order to get your own way".

It's all perspective.

 

[BobbyLayne]

the people putting up this complex should feel guilty about the atrocities of 9/11 for some reason.

This isn't the most apt comparison, but if you were a member of the nazi party you should feel guilty for what happened even if you didn't burn anyone. You shouldn't go around saying "but...but....I was just supporting the party that made the trains run on time, not the radical element of the party"

That is a horrible analogy.However, I like it, because its a beautiful thing when people mix up analogies and metaphors.

Trains ran on time = Mussolini

Both Axis, but not quite the same, eh.

I admitted it was a stretch. But there are movements that started off as one thing and became something else altogether.(dang, knew I should have went with "I joined for the free Volkswagons!")

ETA: BTW, Snopes debunks the Mussolni train thing for what it's worth

(just wanted to share)

True...but at least most folks get the right country/dictator when they use the quote.

BTW, you should have instead used those couple of minutes to research Volkswagen. They didn't start production of non-military vehicles until after WWII.



ETA: ended up inside the quotes marks

 

[the moops]

You don't see the difference though? Disagreeing with someone's religious beliefs and making a reasoned, honest case in opposition vs. distrusting someone's "secret" motivations and saying whatever one needs to say (regardless of how untrue it might be) in order to get your way?

I see the difference, but so much of that is matter of perspective.First, I'm not opposing the mosque based on all Muslims' religious beliefs. (See my last post)

On that note, though, oneohh was just called a bigot for expressing anti-gay views, but there's been a reluctance to discuss the exact same views coming from the overwhelming majority of Muslims. Why? Likely because they've cloaked their position in religion and we're afraid to attack someone's religious beliefs. I am not. If someone's religious beliefs fly in the face of human rights they should be called on it and called on it more vociferously than they currently are. If not, this can happen...

If we had some gay hating muslims posting here, you can sure bet we would be all over him/her for their antiquated views of homosexuality. But since there aren't any of those, we will have to settle for the oneohhs and the like.

 

[Statorama]

True...but at least most folks get the right country/dictator when they use the quote.BTW, you should have instead used those couple of minutes to research Volkswagen. They didn't start production of non-military vehicles until after WWII. ETA: ended up inside the quotes marks

Can't really do much WWII Germany research here at work. Don't want to end up on an IT list somewhere.I kind of imagine them saying "wow, this guy really likes football and Obama. all his hits are on those two subjects"

 

[oneohh]

You don't see the difference though? Disagreeing with someone's religious beliefs and making a reasoned, honest case in opposition vs. distrusting someone's "secret" motivations and saying whatever one needs to say (regardless of how untrue it might be) in order to get your way?

I see the difference, but so much of that is matter of perspective.First, I'm not opposing the mosque based on all Muslims' religious beliefs. (See my last post)

On that note, though, oneohh was just called a bigot for expressing anti-gay views, but there's been a reluctance to discuss the exact same views coming from the overwhelming majority of Muslims. Why? Likely because they've cloaked their position in religion and we're afraid to attack someone's religious beliefs. I am not. If someone's religious beliefs fly in the face of human rights they should be called on it and called on it more vociferously than they currently are. If not, this can happen...

British Muslims Have Zero Tolerance for Homosexual Acts

European Muslims Debate: Should Gays Be Executed?

Second, you criticize the practice of "distrusting someone's "secret" motivations and saying whatever one needs to say (regardless of how untrue it might be) in order to get your way?"

Once again, we're looking at a matter of perspective. Many on the anti-location side feel that sentence could just as easily be applied to the criticism we've received. I'm not blaming you here, Datonn, but there has been a cry from the Left that the "secret" motivation of all those that oppose the location is racism, bigotry, intolerance, or some nice combination of all three. This position has been put forth "regardless of how true it might be in order to get your own way".

It's all perspective.

The left has been working for over half a century to give those words power. Unfortunately, the foundation of this country isn't strong enough anymore to defend itself against that sort of misguided artillery. Morals have been replaced by guilt trips and media controlled groupthink.

 

[Jewell]

Stephen Schwartz, executive director of the Center for Islamic Pluralism, told The Daily Caller that despite their relative silence on the issue, many Muslims question the placement of the mosque.

This is your proof that many moderate muslims oppose the location?This guy refers to it as a mosque. It isn't a mosque.

His point was that the community center will contain a prayer room, mosque, whatever you want to call it. He then goes on to note that under some Islamic teaching Muslims are forbidden to denounce a place of worship. That's why he made the reference to a mosque. Context.Also, let's face it, a lot of the use of "mosque" in the public vernacular instead of "community center" is simply because mosque rolls off the toungue easier than community center. It's one of those things where it's understood that it's a community center but mosque is used because it's easier in conversation, print, etc. Perhaps a bit misleading, but I don't think every use of the word has the intent to mislead.

 

[timschochet]

The majority of Americans do not want viral Islam or homosexuality to take over their country. I would bet most of those people would consider the Mexicans for the gays and Muslims a great trade. If you really want to lessen the power of any of these groups, simply ignore them. Gays are being celebrated and Muslims are being instigated. When you ignore them, you'll lose most of the fringe which will also lessen the strength of any vocal minority push.

Because this is a serious post, I believe it may be the single worst one I have ever read in this forum. Well done.

Apparently you didn't get to read any of that "novel" that was posted last week. But I'm curious, what's so bad about it, Timmay?

Nice to bring up the novel, thanks. As to what is so bad about your post, if you can't figure that out, I'd never be able to explain it to you.

 

[CBusAlex]

On that note, though, oneohh was just called a bigot for expressing anti-gay views, but there's been a reluctance to discuss the exact same views coming from the overwhelming majority of Muslims. Why? Likely because they've cloaked their position in religion and we're afraid to attack someone's religious beliefs. I am not. If someone's religious beliefs fly in the face of human rights they should be called on it and called on it more vociferously than they currently are. If not, this can happen...

If we had some gay hating muslims posting here, you can sure bet we would be all over him/her for their antiquated views of homosexuality. But since there aren't any of those, we will have to settle for the oneohhs and the like.

Yeah, ask the gay-hatin' Christians around here if we're all afraid to attack people's religious beliefs. You don't see it as much with Muslims for the same reason you don't see it with Hindus or Scientologists: there just aren't any here, and it's pointless to argue something if there's no one around to defend the other side.

 

[the moops]

It's one of those things where it's understood that it's a community center but mosque is used because it's easier in conversation, print, etc.

No

 

[oneohh]

The majority of Americans do not want viral Islam or homosexuality to take over their country. I would bet most of those people would consider the Mexicans for the gays and Muslims a great trade. If you really want to lessen the power of any of these groups, simply ignore them. Gays are being celebrated and Muslims are being instigated. When you ignore them, you'll lose most of the fringe which will also lessen the strength of any vocal minority push.

Because this is a serious post, I believe it may be the single worst one I have ever read in this forum. Well done.

Apparently you didn't get to read any of that "novel" that was posted last week. But I'm curious, what's so bad about it, Timmay?

Nice to bring up the novel, thanks. As to what is so bad about your post, if you can't figure that out, I'd never be able to explain it to you.

Come on...just give me one thing wrong with it.

 

[Woogie Lee]

http://gawker.com/5621653/new-york-cab-dri...ng-hes-a-muslim

 

[rct]

The majority of Americans do not want viral Islam or homosexuality to take over their country. I would bet most of those people would consider the Mexicans for the gays and Muslims a great trade. If you really want to lessen the power of any of these groups, simply ignore them. Gays are being celebrated and Muslims are being instigated. When you ignore them, you'll lose most of the fringe which will also lessen the strength of any vocal minority push.

Because this is a serious post, I believe it may be the single worst one I have ever read in this forum. Well done.

Apparently you didn't get to read any of that "novel" that was posted last week. But I'm curious, what's so bad about it, Timmay?

Nice to bring up the novel, thanks. As to what is so bad about your post, if you can't figure that out, I'd never be able to explain it to you.

Come on...just give me one thing wrong with it.

The implicit assumption that most Americans would consider the Mexicans for the gays and Muslims a great trade, which suggests that is where you are coming from. By the way, can you provide a link for these assertions of the "majority of Americans"?

 

[ScottyFargo]

http://gawker.com/5621653/new-york-cab-dri...ng-hes-a-muslim

I'm sure it had more to do with his location rather than his religion.And by location, I mean, the stabber didn't appreciate him living in America and tried to alter that for him, being a decent, real American person.

 

[perry147]

http://gawker.com/5621653/new-york-cab-dri...ng-hes-a-muslim

I'm sure it had more to do with his location rather than his religion.And by location, I mean, the stabber didn't appreciate him living in America and tried to alter that for him, being a decent, real American person.

A real american would have used a gun instead of a knife - knife is too much like an Indian (trying to scalp him or something).

 

[oneohh]

The majority of Americans do not want viral Islam or homosexuality to take over their country. I would bet most of those people would consider the Mexicans for the gays and Muslims a great trade. If you really want to lessen the power of any of these groups, simply ignore them. Gays are being celebrated and Muslims are being instigated. When you ignore them, you'll lose most of the fringe which will also lessen the strength of any vocal minority push.

The implicit assumption that most Americans would consider the Mexicans for the gays and Muslims a great trade, which suggests that is where you are coming from. By the way, can you provide a link for these assertions of the "majority of Americans"?

A link? No. But I'm not under the assumption that the majority of the internet links typically used for "support" in this room have any real measure of truth or even validity. They're certainly not void of slant or bias. And as far as my assumption, I stated it as an assumption; I never stated it as fact. The rest of the post, however, is factual.

 

[jamny]

http://gawker.com/5621653/new-york-cab-dri...ng-hes-a-muslim

Horrible story. Good thing he's ok. It's a shame that some people consider it an opportunity to make jokes.

 

[Woogie Lee]

http://gawker.com/5621653/new-york-cab-dri...ng-hes-a-muslim

Horrible story. Good thing he's ok. It's a shame that some people consider it an opportunity to make jokes.

 

[KarmaPolice]

the people putting up this complex should feel guilty about the atrocities of 9/11 for some reason.

This isn't the most apt comparison, but if you were a member of the nazi party you should feel guilty for what happened even if you didn't burn anyone. You shouldn't go around saying "but...but....I was just supporting the party that made the trains run on time, not the radical element of the party"

Why is that? Just because you have the same principles doesn't mean you still have to agree with everything else somebody with those same principles might do.

I agree that you could display empathy towards people, but it's really not the same thing.

Does this work for your religion and beliefs as well? If somebody kills somebody in the name of Christ should you feel guilty? If you are pro-life and somebody else blows up an abortion clinic should you feel guilty. I don't get this argument at all.

 

[drummer]

A buddy of mine is in Saudi Arabia doing a huge install of custom cabinet work for a Saudi Prince. His boss got the contract last year. They have to stop 4 times a day during prayer.

ZOMG! HIS BOSS HAS TIES WITH TeH TERRORISTS!!

 

[CBusAlex]

A buddy of mine is in Saudi Arabia doing a huge install of custom cabinet work for a Saudi Prince. His boss got the contract last year. They have to stop 4 times a day during prayer.

ZOMG! HIS BOSS HAS TIES WITH TeH TERRORISTS!!

Your buddy may now be infected with "viral Islam". Take appropriate precautions, and notify the authorities.

 

[drummer]

A buddy of mine is in Saudi Arabia doing a huge install of custom cabinet work for a Saudi Prince. His boss got the contract last year. They have to stop 4 times a day during prayer.

ZOMG! HIS BOSS HAS TIES WITH TeH TERRORISTS!!

Your buddy may now be infected with "viral Islam". Take appropriate precautions, and notify the authorities.

I'm already armed. The local Date growers just had a harvest to ship for Ramadan, and some of their workers may be Illegal Immigrants, because they're Hispanic. Where is the Tea Party when we need them?

 

[Jewell]

The media used the footage of the black guy getting confronted by Intolerant Hard Hat Guy at a protest to suggest that many anti-location protestors are intolerant.

Will the media use this footage of an exceptionally dooshy pro-community center supporter to suggest that many community center supporters are equally as dooshy?

(WARNING: Strong Language)

 

[drummer]

The media used the footage of the black guy getting confronted by Intolerant Hard Hat Guy at a protest to suggest that many anti-location protestors are intolerant.

Will the media use this footage of an exceptionally dooshy pro-community center supporter to suggest that many community center supporters are equally as dooshy?

(WARNING: Strong Language)

Aren't most protesters dooshy?

 

[Woogie Lee]

What an idiot.

 

[Statorama]

the people putting up this complex should feel guilty about the atrocities of 9/11 for some reason.

This isn't the most apt comparison, but if you were a member of the nazi party you should feel guilty for what happened even if you didn't burn anyone. You shouldn't go around saying "but...but....I was just supporting the party that made the trains run on time, not the radical element of the party"

Why is that? Just because you have the same principles doesn't mean you still have to agree with everything else somebody with those same principles might do.

I agree that you could display empathy towards people, but it's really not the same thing.

Does this work for your religion and beliefs as well? If somebody kills somebody in the name of Christ should you feel guilty? If you are pro-life and somebody else blows up an abortion clinic should you feel guilty. I don't get this argument at all.

I'll try to come up with a less flagrant example, but overall muslims should feel guilty. One of the foundations of their cult is death to infidels, so yeah they should feel guilty if some of their flock acted on that.If one of the 10 commandments was "thou shalt kill" and a Christian acted on it, then other Christians SHOULD feel guilt that they follow something with such a backward premise.

 

[mad sweeney]

The media used the footage of the black guy getting confronted by Intolerant Hard Hat Guy at a protest to suggest that many anti-location protestors are intolerant.

Will the media use this footage of an exceptionally dooshy pro-community center supporter to suggest that many community center supporters are equally as dooshy?

(WARNING: Strong Language)

As soon as one of the supporters stabs an opposer.

 

[mad sweeney]

the people putting up this complex should feel guilty about the atrocities of 9/11 for some reason.

This isn't the most apt comparison, but if you were a member of the nazi party you should feel guilty for what happened even if you didn't burn anyone. You shouldn't go around saying "but...but....I was just supporting the party that made the trains run on time, not the radical element of the party"

Why is that? Just because you have the same principles doesn't mean you still have to agree with everything else somebody with those same principles might do.

I agree that you could display empathy towards people, but it's really not the same thing.

Does this work for your religion and beliefs as well? If somebody kills somebody in the name of Christ should you feel guilty? If you are pro-life and somebody else blows up an abortion clinic should you feel guilty. I don't get this argument at all.

I'll try to come up with a less flagrant example, but overall muslims should feel guilty. One of the foundations of their cult is death to infidels, so yeah they should feel guilty if some of their flock acted on that.If one of the 10 commandments was "thou shalt kill" and a Christian acted on it, then other Christians SHOULD feel guilt that they follow something with such a backward premise.

Is guilty the right word? Perhaps ashamed of people who pervert their religion. But no reason they should be guilty.

 

[drummer]

the people putting up this complex should feel guilty about the atrocities of 9/11 for some reason.

This isn't the most apt comparison, but if you were a member of the nazi party you should feel guilty for what happened even if you didn't burn anyone. You shouldn't go around saying "but...but....I was just supporting the party that made the trains run on time, not the radical element of the party"

Why is that? Just because you have the same principles doesn't mean you still have to agree with everything else somebody with those same principles might do.

I agree that you could display empathy towards people, but it's really not the same thing.

Does this work for your religion and beliefs as well? If somebody kills somebody in the name of Christ should you feel guilty? If you are pro-life and somebody else blows up an abortion clinic should you feel guilty. I don't get this argument at all.

I'll try to come up with a less flagrant example, but overall muslims should feel guilty. One of the foundations of their cult is death to infidels, so yeah they should feel guilty if some of their flock acted on that.If one of the 10 commandments was "thou shalt kill" and a Christian acted on it, then other Christians SHOULD feel guilt that they follow something with such a backward premise.

Good thing I stopped being Catholic years ago. All the guilt just melted away.

 

[ScottyFargo]

The media used the footage of the black guy getting confronted by Intolerant Hard Hat Guy at a protest to suggest that many anti-location protestors are intolerant.

Will the media use this footage of an exceptionally dooshy pro-community center supporter to suggest that many community center supporters are equally as dooshy?

(WARNING: Strong Language)

C'mon. The holocaust survivor wasn't targeted for that tongue lashing for any antisemitic reasons, whereas the black guy was assumed to be a Muslim. The guy was way harsher than he needed to be, but what does that say? There's a difference in arguing over the principle of the issue and lashing out at people because you think they symbolize the issue itself.

 

[ScottyFargo]

The media used the footage of the black guy getting confronted by Intolerant Hard Hat Guy at a protest to suggest that many anti-location protestors are intolerant.

Will the media use this footage of an exceptionally dooshy pro-community center supporter to suggest that many community center supporters are equally as dooshy?

(WARNING: Strong Language)

Or just stabs a random guy who's just doing his job.

 

[John555]

On that note, though, oneohh was just called a bigot for expressing anti-gay views, but there's been a reluctance to discuss the exact same views coming from the overwhelming majority of Muslims. Why? Likely because they've cloaked their position in religion and we're afraid to attack someone's religious beliefs. I am not. If someone's religious beliefs fly in the face of human rights they should be called on it and called on it more vociferously than they currently are. If not, this can happen...

If we had some gay hating muslims posting here, you can sure bet we would be all over him/her for their antiquated views of homosexuality. But since there aren't any of those, we will have to settle for the oneohhs and the like.

Yeah, ask the gay-hatin' Christians around here if we're all afraid to attack people's religious beliefs. You don't see it as much with Muslims for the same reason you don't see it with Hindus or Scientologists: there just aren't any here, and it's pointless to argue something if there's no one around to defend the other side.

Why? We have pages and pages of debate over how horrible it is that the US does not recognize gay marriage. In the meantime, thousands of homosexuals are executed every year in one of the half-dozen or so Muslim countries which have the dealth penalty for homosexuals. So we have many Muslim countries effectively engaging in genocide against homosexuals and instead of discussing that we have our panties in a bind over a piece of paper. Get real, just because there aren't posters here.....that is a lame excuse. The last I checked Hindus or Scientologists are executing gays. We discuss Muslims all the time in this forum, why not discuss the very ugly and real side of it? We are talking genocide here and I never hear one Muslim condemn it. Lots of them defending it, but lots of silence from those who oppose.I could tell you the exact reason, but there would just be massive denial.

 

[mad sweeney]

On that note, though, oneohh was just called a bigot for expressing anti-gay views, but there's been a reluctance to discuss the exact same views coming from the overwhelming majority of Muslims. Why? Likely because they've cloaked their position in religion and we're afraid to attack someone's religious beliefs. I am not. If someone's religious beliefs fly in the face of human rights they should be called on it and called on it more vociferously than they currently are. If not, this can happen...

If we had some gay hating muslims posting here, you can sure bet we would be all over him/her for their antiquated views of homosexuality. But since there aren't any of those, we will have to settle for the oneohhs and the like.

Yeah, ask the gay-hatin' Christians around here if we're all afraid to attack people's religious beliefs. You don't see it as much with Muslims for the same reason you don't see it with Hindus or Scientologists: there just aren't any here, and it's pointless to argue something if there's no one around to defend the other side.

Why? We have pages and pages of debate over how horrible it is that the US does not recognize gay marriage. In the meantime, thousands of homosexuals are executed every year in one of the half-dozen or so Muslim countries which have the dealth penalty for homosexuals. So we have many Muslim countries effectively engaging in genocide against homosexuals and instead of discussing that we have our panties in a bind over a piece of paper. Get real, just because there aren't posters here.....that is a lame excuse. The last I checked Hindus or Scientologists are executing gays. We discuss Muslims all the time in this forum, why not discuss the very ugly and real side of it? We are talking genocide here and I never hear one Muslim condemn it. Lots of them defending it, but lots of silence from those who oppose.I could tell you the exact reason, but there would just be massive denial.

Please, go for it.This whole "how they do it in other countries" is a stupid argument. It's not like that's going to happen here. We have laws that are abided by. If Muslims wan't to go ahead and condemn gays while they're here in America then they'll fit right in with the rest of the Christian organizations that do the same, but there won't be any genocide. And aren't you one of those guys who gets up in arms when Ruaf or any other Muslim, or worse a liberal, talks about all the killing the US does in Muslim countries? Yet here you are trying to use the same argument from the other side to prove your point. The hyperbolic hypocrisy from the Right is outrageous, stupendous, pendulous and absolutely CANARDIC!!!!!

 

[Jewell]

The media used the footage of the black guy getting confronted by Intolerant Hard Hat Guy at a protest to suggest that many anti-location protestors are intolerant.

Will the media use this footage of an exceptionally dooshy pro-community center supporter to suggest that many community center supporters are equally as dooshy?

(WARNING: Strong Language)

I agree. Absolutely none of that, though, means the guy wasn't an exceptional doosh, and absolutely none of that addresses whether the media will take the action of one (or a small handful) and then suggest that many who support that same position act the same way.

 

[mad sweeney]

The media used the footage of the black guy getting confronted by Intolerant Hard Hat Guy at a protest to suggest that many anti-location protestors are intolerant.

Will the media use this footage of an exceptionally dooshy pro-community center supporter to suggest that many community center supporters are equally as dooshy?

(WARNING: Strong Language)

You mean like most of the people telling Muslims "no" are doing?

 

[drummer]

On that note, though, oneohh was just called a bigot for expressing anti-gay views, but there's been a reluctance to discuss the exact same views coming from the overwhelming majority of Muslims. Why? Likely because they've cloaked their position in religion and we're afraid to attack someone's religious beliefs. I am not. If someone's religious beliefs fly in the face of human rights they should be called on it and called on it more vociferously than they currently are. If not, this can happen...

If we had some gay hating muslims posting here, you can sure bet we would be all over him/her for their antiquated views of homosexuality. But since there aren't any of those, we will have to settle for the oneohhs and the like.

Yeah, ask the gay-hatin' Christians around here if we're all afraid to attack people's religious beliefs. You don't see it as much with Muslims for the same reason you don't see it with Hindus or Scientologists: there just aren't any here, and it's pointless to argue something if there's no one around to defend the other side.

Why? We have pages and pages of debate over how horrible it is that the US does not recognize gay marriage. In the meantime, thousands of homosexuals are executed every year in one of the half-dozen or so Muslim countries which have the dealth penalty for homosexuals. So we have many Muslim countries effectively engaging in genocide against homosexuals and instead of discussing that we have our panties in a bind over a piece of paper. Get real, just because there aren't posters here.....that is a lame excuse. The last I checked Hindus or Scientologists are executing gays. We discuss Muslims all the time in this forum, why not discuss the very ugly and real side of it? We are talking genocide here and I never hear one Muslim condemn it. Lots of them defending it, but lots of silence from those who oppose.I could tell you the exact reason, but there would just be massive denial.

Please, go for it.This whole "how they do it in other countries" is a stupid argument. It's not like that's going to happen here. We have laws that are abided by. If Muslims wan't to go ahead and condemn gays while they're here in America then they'll fit right in with the rest of the Christian organizations that do the same, but there won't be any genocide. And aren't you one of those guys who gets up in arms when Ruaf or any other Muslim, or worse a liberal, talks about all the killing the US does in Muslim countries? Yet here you are trying to use the same argument from the other side to prove your point. The hyperbolic hypocrisy from the Right is outrageous, stupendous, pendulous and absolutely CANARDIC!!!!!

Maybe John prefers a Serbian solution to the Muslim issue.

 

[Jewell]

The media used the footage of the black guy getting confronted by Intolerant Hard Hat Guy at a protest to suggest that many anti-location protestors are intolerant.

Will the media use this footage of an exceptionally dooshy pro-community center supporter to suggest that many community center supporters are equally as dooshy?

(WARNING: Strong Language)

Touché. I can't deny that there are many that are doing just that.

 

[John555]

On that note, though, oneohh was just called a bigot for expressing anti-gay views, but there's been a reluctance to discuss the exact same views coming from the overwhelming majority of Muslims. Why? Likely because they've cloaked their position in religion and we're afraid to attack someone's religious beliefs. I am not. If someone's religious beliefs fly in the face of human rights they should be called on it and called on it more vociferously than they currently are. If not, this can happen...

If we had some gay hating muslims posting here, you can sure bet we would be all over him/her for their antiquated views of homosexuality. But since there aren't any of those, we will have to settle for the oneohhs and the like.

Yeah, ask the gay-hatin' Christians around here if we're all afraid to attack people's religious beliefs. You don't see it as much with Muslims for the same reason you don't see it with Hindus or Scientologists: there just aren't any here, and it's pointless to argue something if there's no one around to defend the other side.

Why? We have pages and pages of debate over how horrible it is that the US does not recognize gay marriage. In the meantime, thousands of homosexuals are executed every year in one of the half-dozen or so Muslim countries which have the dealth penalty for homosexuals. So we have many Muslim countries effectively engaging in genocide against homosexuals and instead of discussing that we have our panties in a bind over a piece of paper. Get real, just because there aren't posters here.....that is a lame excuse. The last I checked Hindus or Scientologists are executing gays. We discuss Muslims all the time in this forum, why not discuss the very ugly and real side of it? We are talking genocide here and I never hear one Muslim condemn it. Lots of them defending it, but lots of silence from those who oppose.I could tell you the exact reason, but there would just be massive denial.

Please, go for it.This whole "how they do it in other countries" is a stupid argument. It's not like that's going to happen here. We have laws that are abided by. If Muslims wan't to go ahead and condemn gays while they're here in America then they'll fit right in with the rest of the Christian organizations that do the same, but there won't be any genocide. And aren't you one of those guys who gets up in arms when Ruaf or any other Muslim, or worse a liberal, talks about all the killing the US does in Muslim countries? Yet here you are trying to use the same argument from the other side to prove your point. The hyperbolic hypocrisy from the Right is outrageous, stupendous, pendulous and absolutely CANARDIC!!!!!

Rauf was blaming the US for starving to death 500,000 Iraqi children. I was up in arms about that ridculous statement because it is a total lie. I want an answer to this question, why don't liberals care about all the gay people being executed? We are not talking about people killed during acts of war, we are talking about intentionally killing people becuase they are gay.

 

[drummer]

Rauf was blaming the US for starving to death 500,000 Iraqi children. I was up in arms about that ridculous statement because it is a total lie. I want an answer to this question, why don't liberals care about all the gay people being executed? We are not talking about people killed during acts of war, we are talking about intentionally killing people becuase they are gay.

Homosexuals weren't targets of violence here in America?

 

[mad sweeney]

If we had some gay hating muslims posting here, you can sure bet we would be all over him/her for their antiquated views of homosexuality. But since there aren't any of those, we will have to settle for the oneohhs and the like.

Yeah, ask the gay-hatin' Christians around here if we're all afraid to attack people's religious beliefs. You don't see it as much with Muslims for the same reason you don't see it with Hindus or Scientologists: there just aren't any here, and it's pointless to argue something if there's no one around to defend the other side.

Why? We have pages and pages of debate over how horrible it is that the US does not recognize gay marriage. In the meantime, thousands of homosexuals are executed every year in one of the half-dozen or so Muslim countries which have the dealth penalty for homosexuals. So we have many Muslim countries effectively engaging in genocide against homosexuals and instead of discussing that we have our panties in a bind over a piece of paper. Get real, just because there aren't posters here.....that is a lame excuse. The last I checked Hindus or Scientologists are executing gays. We discuss Muslims all the time in this forum, why not discuss the very ugly and real side of it? We are talking genocide here and I never hear one Muslim condemn it. Lots of them defending it, but lots of silence from those who oppose.I could tell you the exact reason, but there would just be massive denial.

Please, go for it.This whole "how they do it in other countries" is a stupid argument. It's not like that's going to happen here. We have laws that are abided by. If Muslims wan't to go ahead and condemn gays while they're here in America then they'll fit right in with the rest of the Christian organizations that do the same, but there won't be any genocide. And aren't you one of those guys who gets up in arms when Ruaf or any other Muslim, or worse a liberal, talks about all the killing the US does in Muslim countries? Yet here you are trying to use the same argument from the other side to prove your point. The hyperbolic hypocrisy from the Right is outrageous, stupendous, pendulous and absolutely CANARDIC!!!!!

Rauf was blaming the US for starving to death 500,000 Iraqi children. I was up in arms about that ridculous statement because it is a total lie. I want an answer to this question, why don't liberals care about all the gay people being executed? We are not talking about people killed during acts of war, we are talking about intentionally killing people becuase they are gay.

Who says they don't care? How is that central to the idea of Muslims in America who have to abide under American laws that prevents acting on that? Right now they're busy defending the Constitution from xenophobic usurpers who want to abandon our country's freedom. As for Iraq, who knows if the number is right. We certainly will never be given the truth from our own gov't on that. But every single death in Iraq was an unjust killing from an unjust invasion. You claim that we must face the ugly, well that's the ugly. Our reasons for going into Iraq had nothing to do with religion, but every single Muslim we killed over there is a mark against us (as is every one of our servicemen's deaths and injuries).

 

[oneohh]

On that note, though, oneohh was just called a bigot for expressing anti-gay views, but there's been a reluctance to discuss the exact same views coming from the overwhelming majority of Muslims. Why? Likely because they've cloaked their position in religion and we're afraid to attack someone's religious beliefs. I am not. If someone's religious beliefs fly in the face of human rights they should be called on it and called on it more vociferously than they currently are. If not, this can happen...

If we had some gay hating muslims posting here, you can sure bet we would be all over him/her for their antiquated views of homosexuality. But since there aren't any of those, we will have to settle for the oneohhs and the like.

Yeah, ask the gay-hatin' Christians around here if we're all afraid to attack people's religious beliefs. You don't see it as much with Muslims for the same reason you don't see it with Hindus or Scientologists: there just aren't any here, and it's pointless to argue something if there's no one around to defend the other side.

Why? We have pages and pages of debate over how horrible it is that the US does not recognize gay marriage. In the meantime, thousands of homosexuals are executed every year in one of the half-dozen or so Muslim countries which have the dealth penalty for homosexuals. So we have many Muslim countries effectively engaging in genocide against homosexuals and instead of discussing that we have our panties in a bind over a piece of paper. Get real, just because there aren't posters here.....that is a lame excuse. The last I checked Hindus or Scientologists are executing gays. We discuss Muslims all the time in this forum, why not discuss the very ugly and real side of it? We are talking genocide here and I never hear one Muslim condemn it. Lots of them defending it, but lots of silence from those who oppose.I could tell you the exact reason, but there would just be massive denial.

Please, go for it.This whole "how they do it in other countries" is a stupid argument. It's not like that's going to happen here. We have laws that are abided by. If Muslims wan't to go ahead and condemn gays while they're here in America then they'll fit right in with the rest of the Christian organizations that do the same, but there won't be any genocide. And aren't you one of those guys who gets up in arms when Ruaf or any other Muslim, or worse a liberal, talks about all the killing the US does in Muslim countries? Yet here you are trying to use the same argument from the other side to prove your point. The hyperbolic hypocrisy from the Right is outrageous, stupendous, pendulous and absolutely CANARDIC!!!!!

I guess you have to fill a paragraph with hyperbole before you call someone else out for it? Is that the new rule?

 

[Jewell]

This whole "how they do it in other countries" is a stupid argument. It's not like that's going to happen here. We have laws that are abided by. If Muslims wan't to go ahead and condemn gays while they're here in America then they'll fit right in with the rest of the Christian organizations that do the same, but there won't be any genocide. And aren't you one of those guys who gets up in arms when Ruaf or any other Muslim, or worse a liberal, talks about all the killing the US does in Muslim countries? Yet here you are trying to use the same argument from the other side to prove your point. The hyperbolic hypocrisy from the Right is outrageous, stupendous, pendulous and absolutely CANARDIC!!!!!

What's truly outrageous is OK-ing genocide just because it's happening in another country.