Amused to Death
Footballguy
Trick of the Tail tour, first after PG left. Thompson came on in '77 (Wind and Wuthering). Coincidentally, I've been listening to 3/19/77 all morning
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My brother says Neil Peart is the greatest rock drummer ever (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter timschochet
- Start date
NCCommish
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
So no love for DJ Bonebrake? How about Topper Headon?
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
drummer
Footballguy
Mr. Ected
Footballguy
Check this video out. Gordo a street drummer from Sydney, Australia.
Love NP. Would be interesting to see what he could do with a couple of sticks and some buckets like this guy. Bet he could do OK after some practice!
Love NP. Would be interesting to see what he could do with a couple of sticks and some buckets like this guy. Bet he could do OK after some practice!
drummer
Footballguy
drummer
Footballguy
CurlyNight
Footballguy
Yep, Neal Peart is still the best drummer out there!
Gordo
Footballguy
drummer
Footballguy
Funny, if I made my list of all time favorite and influential drummers, only one of those in Copeland would make my top ten. Not slamming your list but there isn't a whole lot of variety here. Only one drummer here has a fatback snare sound in Bonham. You might say "what does a fatback snare sound have to do with this?". Well, Al Jackson Jr. and Bernard Purdie show their influence in Bonham with that "signature" snare sound. Beauford is more similar to Copeland in that he plays a lot more figures around his snare, but it ultimately becomes excessive. It's not so much composition as to how he can toss the whole kitchen sink around a backbeat.
Copeland on the other hand has a distinct snare sound, but I have to think a bit of being fatback. Fatback is more playing behind the click than it is leading it. But if I was going to find a classic clock track of Copeland, it would be this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mgSCKXSp9M
Now I can hear Copeland's influence on Beauford right here in the track. There is composition here. Much like you say Peart does. Pretty much every drummer that records has to compose drum parts. Because time is money in the studio. Still, his snare leads more click wise, and even more, his use of the hi-hat and cymbals. The cymbal and hi-hat work play around the click more than the snare. It sounds fatback, yet the snare pushes the right hand, like jazz drummers do.
Out of your list, Copeland is the only one that uses "traditional grip" and preaches it. That grip really lends to the use of the right leading the left. When I studied with Tony Williams, he was teaching me how to use that grip - I studied with old timer big band guys, one who worked for NBC back in the radio days, who taught me that grip before Tony - because of the "right hand drives the left" theory and practice. When I came to a lesson with Tony after trying to reverse engineer that (due to my Billy Cobham influence), Tony basically asked me why I was studying with him. It's not that Tony never used matched grip. It's that there is a discipline to trad grip how you orchestrate it around the kit, how it separates right and left in the brain, and the whole vocabulary that goes along with decades of drummers who use it.
Just knowing this theory alone would not put Peart above Joe Morello, which I posted a few back. Morello's solo with Dave Brubeck is a seriously beautiful composition on it's own, with the use of traditional grip. Do you want more composition? Here is the great Ralph Peterson at PASIC, showing how to play form and melody:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlXMosPTZds
Here he is in it's practice and performance:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54SB3GK1n34
This is advanced vocabulary. This is a language like any other language yet more advanced due to the vocabulary that preceded it. This isn't some lame ### drum vocabulary in "YYZ" or "By-Tor". This is Philly Joe Jones, Max Roach, Art Blakey, etc., and their approach to modern American classical music, which is really only around 100 years old. This IS vocabulary. This is communication. This IS composition. All done with a grip that harkens back to the days of the ancient military.
Do you see why I don't view Peart important now?
ETA: two more vids of Ralph Peterson @ PASIC, which will probably go down as one of the classic music lessons on YouTube ever:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvfGrpi2sOs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frl01YfFh3I
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Ghost Rider
Footballguy
You may not view Peart as important, but the annals of rock history do. Remember that the premise of this thread is best ROCK drummer, not jazz or anything like that. Countless rock drummers over the years have called Peart a big influence, and it is kind of silly to say otherwise.
Todem
Footballguy
Your always going to have plenty of detractors from Peart, Lifeson…Rush. It comes with the territory. You know that Ghost. I honestly don't care. In my mind and heart he is the best rock drummer I have ever heard. And like you said so many other rock drummers would agree.
That's not by accident.
That's not by accident.
drummer
Footballguy
In reality, most rock drummers called Ringo and Bonham influential than Peart. Billy Cobham was a bigger influence than Peart. I never hear Steve Smith talk about Peart as much as he does Cobham. If you're lumping in Portnoy and "progressive" (see: DT nuts) drummers, then I still don't hear Peart in any jam band drummer, who have chops but play them in a different way.
The bottom line is you don't hear Peart's influence in rock music, other than listening to again, DT. Dream Theater itself isn't that influential in rock either. Bill Ward of Black Sabbath could be a bigger influence now than Peart. A guy I know in Brant Bjork has influenced more drummers with his brand of Stoner Rock drumming, which is huge in Europe now. He hardly plays drums anymore, lol. Modern Drummer called him "The Influence". A lot of these rock drummers are post punk drummers, who also borrow a lot from Bill Ward.
The town I live in - where Kyuss and Queens of the Stone Age are from - almost every rock drummer in town has this kit: one 26" to 28" bass drum, single rack tom, and one to two floor toms, with a few cymbals.That's it. It's Bonham, Ward, and yes, Bjork who they are sleeping on. You go to Coachella and you don't see a huge Peart kit onstage with most of those bands. It's the single rack tom variety. My old huge Phillips kit would meet derision, lol.
Funny story: a buddy of mine plays in one of these stoner rock bands (I know a few that do), and I had an old steel concert bass drum, that I think was 30" in diameter. I told my buddy I would give it to him once I find it, because I thought I put it in storage, and hasn't seen it in years since I moved back in town from SF. He called me almost every day to see if I did find it. I didn't, much to our dismay. I think one of my nephews got a hold of it and gave it away. But the funny part is the bigger the bass drum the better. That's how crazy these drummers are here.
All of which shows hardly a Peart influence.
I dunno how anybody can think that jazz does not influence rock, or that it's irrelevant to this discussion. Watts, Baker, Mitchell, and even Ringo were influenced by jazz drummers early in their careers. It's irrelevant to your point because it doesn't fit into the Peart narrative. Yet, Burning for Buddy down? That's Peart's pet project. Trad grip down? Peart was re-engineering his technique for it. He is going back to his jazz influences, so jazz vocabulary is very relevant to this discussion.
I dunno if I already posted this, but this is where jazz vocabulary and rock meet:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jA-O2ylCHd8
Carlos Santana and Michael Shrieve were knocked out by this band, as well as a lot of other musicians (even Jimi Hendrix) when they came out. Terry Bozzio, Steve Smith, and Vinnie Colauita all credit Williams as a huge influence as well.
Speaking of when jazz vocabulary meets rock:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBG6IaSQCpU
Yes, the famous Woodstock clip with Michael Shrieve, whose hero was Elvin Jones. Yes, he was peaking on acid with Carlos as well.
You're trying way to hard to pin Peart as the greatest rock drummer ever, while not trying hard enough. He simply isn't.
drummer
Footballguy
I'm gonna add one more of Tony Williams here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsjYVpBHPnU
You should hear Gary Novak cover this with Holdsworth.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsjYVpBHPnU
You should hear Gary Novak cover this with Holdsworth.
drummer
Footballguy
Of course I'm arguing with people who listen to this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UU62UcP_BA
Tobes of Hades, lit by flickering torchlight
The netherworld is gathered in the glare
Prince By-Tor takes the cavern to the north light
The sign of Eth is rising in the air
By-Tor, knight of darkness
Centurion of evil, devil's prince
Across the River Styx, out of the lamplight
His nemesis is waiting at the gate
The Snow Dog, ermine glowing in the damp night
Coal-black eyes shimmering with hate
By-Tor and the Snow Dog
Square for battle, let the fray begin
The battle's over and the dust is clearing
Disciples of the Snow Dog sound the knell
Rejoicing echoes as the dawn is nearing
By-Tor, in defeat, retreats to Hell
Snow Dog is victorious
The land of the Overworld is saved again
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UU62UcP_BA
Tobes of Hades, lit by flickering torchlight
The netherworld is gathered in the glare
Prince By-Tor takes the cavern to the north light
The sign of Eth is rising in the air
By-Tor, knight of darkness
Centurion of evil, devil's prince
Across the River Styx, out of the lamplight
His nemesis is waiting at the gate
The Snow Dog, ermine glowing in the damp night
Coal-black eyes shimmering with hate
By-Tor and the Snow Dog
Square for battle, let the fray begin
The battle's over and the dust is clearing
Disciples of the Snow Dog sound the knell
Rejoicing echoes as the dawn is nearing
By-Tor, in defeat, retreats to Hell
Snow Dog is victorious
The land of the Overworld is saved again
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
Drummer, I know you can't stand me ("off this #### troll") but your posts in this thread have been highly informative and educational. Thank you for that.
drummer
Footballguy
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
I know, and I am aware. Rush haters are actually funny, as they've actually convinced themselves that Rush isn't that popular or influential. It's that old "I hate them, so everyone must hate them, too" mentality. It's comical. 40 years and counting, and still comical.
drummer
Footballguy
I'm gonna post a bit of Billy Cobham here, and post a bit of his influence in rock music.
First, with the Mahavishnu Orchestra, and the classic Birds of Fire track:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gv_bkS5VVaA
Cobham went from a small jazz type kit with a single rack, single floor tom, and a single bass drum he used recording The Inner Mounting Flame to a full on double bass drum multi rack tom kit with the Birds of Fire album. That in itself is huge, because he was breaking huge ground before with the small kit, and now is scorching the Earth with the huge one. Birds of Fire is in 9/8, double kicks played all the way through it, a small nod to a double bass drum shuffle within it, and blistering roundhouse fills that are just plain fast and clean.
You can hear the difference between his approach with the huge kit and the small one with this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQG7XpCiSVA&feature=kp
BTW, these recordings preceded anything Rush or Peart.
Oh, and that double bass drum shuffle? The one you hear with Alex Van Halen on Hot For Teacher?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FuKs4buY6U
This was recorded in 1973. It may not be the first double bass drum shuffle recorded, but it was the most popular at the time.
Once Cobham got into double kicks, he used the hell out of them as seen and heard here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lg86di2p34c
But let's not let that get in the way of Cobham laying down a serious fat backbeat after a drum solo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aw2rM0w-pc
These are just a few examples of Cobham's work. Now if he just played with a Rush style rock band playing stuff like By-Tor (which if you listened to any other Cobham/Duke compositions, they had lyrics just as silly that preceded Peart's silly lyrics, so chalk another one up for Cobham), then he would probably still be one of the greatest rock drummers ever. He was then, if not the greatest with Mahavishnu. But he doesn't just play with one band. Even Wiki doesn't do service to Cobham with their page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Cobham
In the sphere of influence within the drum world, Cobham>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Peart. So therefore, he is more important to the evolution of the instrument, especially in rock.
ETA: gotta add one of my favorite tracks with Cobham blistering the kit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FejsqHQsxX0
First, with the Mahavishnu Orchestra, and the classic Birds of Fire track:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gv_bkS5VVaA
Cobham went from a small jazz type kit with a single rack, single floor tom, and a single bass drum he used recording The Inner Mounting Flame to a full on double bass drum multi rack tom kit with the Birds of Fire album. That in itself is huge, because he was breaking huge ground before with the small kit, and now is scorching the Earth with the huge one. Birds of Fire is in 9/8, double kicks played all the way through it, a small nod to a double bass drum shuffle within it, and blistering roundhouse fills that are just plain fast and clean.
You can hear the difference between his approach with the huge kit and the small one with this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQG7XpCiSVA&feature=kp
BTW, these recordings preceded anything Rush or Peart.
Oh, and that double bass drum shuffle? The one you hear with Alex Van Halen on Hot For Teacher?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FuKs4buY6U
This was recorded in 1973. It may not be the first double bass drum shuffle recorded, but it was the most popular at the time.
Once Cobham got into double kicks, he used the hell out of them as seen and heard here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lg86di2p34c
But let's not let that get in the way of Cobham laying down a serious fat backbeat after a drum solo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aw2rM0w-pc
These are just a few examples of Cobham's work. Now if he just played with a Rush style rock band playing stuff like By-Tor (which if you listened to any other Cobham/Duke compositions, they had lyrics just as silly that preceded Peart's silly lyrics, so chalk another one up for Cobham), then he would probably still be one of the greatest rock drummers ever. He was then, if not the greatest with Mahavishnu. But he doesn't just play with one band. Even Wiki doesn't do service to Cobham with their page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Cobham
In the sphere of influence within the drum world, Cobham>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Peart. So therefore, he is more important to the evolution of the instrument, especially in rock.
ETA: gotta add one of my favorite tracks with Cobham blistering the kit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FejsqHQsxX0
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drummer
Footballguy
A Tale of Two Drum Solos:
First:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmbayHHUPcA
From the comments:
"Wow very nice, the Neil Peart influence is strong in this one Darth Vader."
That's unfortunate.
BTW, the solo is not "impossible". It's your basic noise coming out of every garage. Zero form, zero melody, zero composition.
The other drum solo (which is a warm up):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fhZI-SuYbo
If you have never heard of Kiko Freitas, now you have. Great form, great composition, very musical.
Like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykGGiZ_ABwI
ETA: just had to add this. Freitas is is Brazilian, and is a master of technique.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zR7cS00Miig
First:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmbayHHUPcA
From the comments:
"Wow very nice, the Neil Peart influence is strong in this one Darth Vader."
That's unfortunate.
BTW, the solo is not "impossible". It's your basic noise coming out of every garage. Zero form, zero melody, zero composition.
The other drum solo (which is a warm up):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fhZI-SuYbo
If you have never heard of Kiko Freitas, now you have. Great form, great composition, very musical.
Like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykGGiZ_ABwI
ETA: just had to add this. Freitas is is Brazilian, and is a master of technique.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zR7cS00Miig
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Todem
Footballguy
Your a piece of work man.
You are the definition of a musical snob. I am a long long time musician. Music is subjective and the beauty of the art is in the eye of the beholder/listener.
I am not trying to convince anyone Neil Peart is the greatest drummer of all time. IMO for my taste he is the best rock drummer of all time. If you don't agree….that's cool. I love John Bonham, I love the Mahavishnu Orchestra…..Love their stuff. I love and appreciate all kinds of fusion, rock and progressive players. So many great players in the world. I have seen and heard local guys no one will ever see or hear as well.
Again…..it's music. Your making it sound like science. Your the definition of a musical snob. Look at me…..look at all I know.
Whatever floats your boat man. That is what music is all about. What emotion does the artist evoke in you. So for you Rush and Neil Peart totally turns you off. Cool. I get it. I know a lot of people can't stand Rush. And yes a lot of Rush fans are annoying and want to convince you otherwise. I have personally never been that kind of Rush fan. For me Alex Lifeson and the music of Rush is what inspired me to become a guitarist and compose, perform, record and play live music. Those guys were my muse. And they have been such a huge influence on so many other musicians. A fact that can't be denied. They have millions of dedicated fans.
Some current and relevant bands that have plenty of Rush in their style:
Foo Fighters
Muse
Two huge, commercially successful bands that easily point to Rush in their riff's and approach.
Anyway. Enough about that. Purely subjective. There is very little doubt about Neil Peart's overall influence on drummers around the world. It's well documented.
Just because you don't like it……makes it less important to others. Get off the musical high horse. It really is ignorant on your part. I respect your opinion that he is not your cup of tea. But to argue how unimportant Peart is to rock drumming is a real sign of ignorance.
I can't stand Kurt Cobain and Nirvana. But I do not deny their lasting influence on a generation of grunge rock. I think they stunk, their overrated etc. But I am not going to try to convince anyone they were not important. That would be silly.
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Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Well said, Todem, but you are probably wasting your time trying to get through to him.
It's a common thing for people with musical training, who lacked the discipline or talent to "make it," to downplay the talents of popular musicians, while pimping the skills of relative unknowns. It's the only way they know to establish for themselves some sort of private territory in the musical landscape. If he can't play what Portnoy does, and can't appear unique for appreciating him due to his legions of fans, there's nothing special about him. So he has to find some other place to stake his claim. Preferably a youtube vid with 40 likes, instead of thousands.
You know you can safely ignore anybody who dismisses any elite musician's offerings as "basic noise coming out of every garage." Transparent jealously and need to be more authoritative than the masses.
Portnoy's guilty of a few artistic and technical shortcuts, but he's no more a typical garage drummer than Picasso was a house painter.
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Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Well, he isn't talking about just relative unknowns (although I am sure drummer will focus on just that comment and run with it 
), but overall I agree with your point.
Hell, I am not much of a fan of Jimi Hendrix, but I would never be so foolish and so arrogant as to suggest that he isn't a huge influence just because I am not much of a fan.
Also, Portnoy has never been a good soloist, IMO. He is a damn good player within the context of various bands, but his drum solos have always been boring, which is probably why since the I&W tour, he rarely did them with Dream Theater before leaving the band in '10. But how good of a soloist he is or isn't has nothing to do with Neil Peart.
), but overall I agree with your point.Hell, I am not much of a fan of Jimi Hendrix, but I would never be so foolish and so arrogant as to suggest that he isn't a huge influence just because I am not much of a fan.
Also, Portnoy has never been a good soloist, IMO. He is a damn good player within the context of various bands, but his drum solos have always been boring, which is probably why since the I&W tour, he rarely did them with Dream Theater before leaving the band in '10. But how good of a soloist he is or isn't has nothing to do with Neil Peart.
drummer
Footballguy
LOL.
Get through to me...
Have you guys actually ever tried to execute any Rush drum patterns? I mean, not the John Rutsey drum patterns.
I have. Many times. To the point where they bore me, and still do.
Because Rush music is ultimately boring. Again: 1-2-1-2-1-2-3 1-2-1-2-1-2-3 isn't groundbreaking ####. Many drummers do that better than Peart. Hell forget subdividing it all. Just use 1-2-1 1-2-1 and you have Rush!
What meter is that BTW?
Sheesh.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
drummer
Footballguy
Hold on now, this is a thread where iot has to be proven that Peart is the "Best.Rock.Drummer.Period".
So far, I have debunked that to the point where we have butthurt Rush fan chiming in. Simply because what it truth is that he is actully not the most influential rock drummer, period.
The irony is you bring up Foo Fighters whereas Dave Grohl himself said in an early interview that he was a "minimalist" when it came to his ideas behind the kit, the "anti Neal Peart" if you will.
Oh, but we have Foo Fighters and Muse as examples. Let's just toss out Ginger Baker, Kieth Moon, Charlie Watts, Sandy Nelson, Mitch Mitchell, Ringo Starr as influences.
This thread would do better without the myopoic Rush fan. Because hey, we need more Bill Bruford in here.
drummer
Footballguy
The one you just replied to in a thread.
Oh hold on! Famous Sabes is actually asking if another FBG is as famous as Famous Sabes!
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drummer
Footballguy
Billy Cobham is far from a relative unknown, but the fact that you posted that means you can leave the conversation. Now.It's a common thing for people with musical training, who lacked the discipline or talent to "make it," to downplay the talents of popular musicians, while pimping the skills of relative unknowns. It's the only way they know to establish for themselves some sort of private territory in the musical landscape. If he can't play what Portnoy does, and can't appear unique for appreciating him due to his legions of fans, there's nothing special about him. So he has to find some other place to stake his claim. Preferably a youtube vid with 40 likes, instead of thousands.
You know you can safely ignore anybody who dismisses any elite musician's offerings as "basic noise coming out of every garage." Transparent jealously and need to be more authoritative than the masses.
Portnoy's guilty of a few artistic and technical shortcuts, but he's no more a typical garage drummer than Picasso was a house painter.
drummer
Footballguy
One more thing on Billy Cobham: while on tour with Jazz is Dead, many a attendee who has never heard of Cobham went up to him and mentioned him amongst the Carter Beaufords and Dennis Chambers'.
Little did they know that Cobham is one of their biggest infleunces.
I dunno if it's because a black drummer playing rock music with double kicks and blazing roundhouse fills identified with them more than a Canadian dude with long hair, a handlebar mustache, robes, playing Didacts and Narpets had anything to do with it....
So again, in the realm of rock influence:
Cobham >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Peart
Ball is in your Kingdom's Court, Rushaissance Faire fan.
Little did they know that Cobham is one of their biggest infleunces.
I dunno if it's because a black drummer playing rock music with double kicks and blazing roundhouse fills identified with them more than a Canadian dude with long hair, a handlebar mustache, robes, playing Didacts and Narpets had anything to do with it....
So again, in the realm of rock influence:
Cobham >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Peart
Ball is in your Kingdom's Court, Rushaissance Faire fan.
drummer
Footballguy
Funny thing about the whole influence in rock thingy:
Creem Magazine - IMO the greatest rock mag ever - had an interveiw with Rush that was hilarious. Because Creem pretty much surmized that Rush had zero sense of humor amongst the band, and that they took themselves so serious to the point where the members of Rush were offended by it. I got from that interview that Creem didn't think much of Rush music amongst the sphere of rock music then.
This was during the seminal period of Moving Pictures too.
Creem covered every rock band/musician out there, from Motorhead to Television, 999 to Van Halen, Nina Hagen to Joni Mitchell. So for Rush then to have little influence as a whole to the bands that were Metal, Rock, Punk, Avant Garde could mean that individually, they didn't have much influence on rock music as much as say, Led Zeppelin and The Clash.
Creem Magazine - IMO the greatest rock mag ever - had an interveiw with Rush that was hilarious. Because Creem pretty much surmized that Rush had zero sense of humor amongst the band, and that they took themselves so serious to the point where the members of Rush were offended by it. I got from that interview that Creem didn't think much of Rush music amongst the sphere of rock music then.
This was during the seminal period of Moving Pictures too.
Creem covered every rock band/musician out there, from Motorhead to Television, 999 to Van Halen, Nina Hagen to Joni Mitchell. So for Rush then to have little influence as a whole to the bands that were Metal, Rock, Punk, Avant Garde could mean that individually, they didn't have much influence on rock music as much as say, Led Zeppelin and The Clash.
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drummer
Footballguy
Maybe someone should post a "Greatest Guitarist in Rock" but without a pole (poles don't work in this thread or would in that one. Because we are limiting the parameters and creating a baseline which serves zero purpose other than self flagellating, Otis style).
What would be interesting is their sphere of influence, how it compares to how other see other musicians suck as drummers, bassists keyboardists, etc fit in. My guess is would be a lot more diverse because it would be an area where Rush/Peart fan would not feel as validated because most if not all guitarists only have six strings instead of a huge drumkit.
I mean, they don't feel Lifeson is the greatest guitarist (they may find Lee as the greatest bassist, but that's debateable as well, maybe even less so than Peart however) but the criteria is just as valid.
What would be interesting is their sphere of influence, how it compares to how other see other musicians suck as drummers, bassists keyboardists, etc fit in. My guess is would be a lot more diverse because it would be an area where Rush/Peart fan would not feel as validated because most if not all guitarists only have six strings instead of a huge drumkit.
I mean, they don't feel Lifeson is the greatest guitarist (they may find Lee as the greatest bassist, but that's debateable as well, maybe even less so than Peart however) but the criteria is just as valid.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Music snobs are funny.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
Funny is not the word I would use.Leroy Hoard said:
drummer
Footballguy
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dhockster
Footballguy
drummer
Footballguy
drummer
Footballguy
BTW a little Vinnie Colauita, 5-5-5, with notes!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvBQw00w3IM&feature=kp
http://www.zappa-analysis.com/five1.jpg
ETA: if you look at the transcription, an easy lesson on subdivision.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvBQw00w3IM&feature=kp
http://www.zappa-analysis.com/five1.jpg
ETA: if you look at the transcription, an easy lesson on subdivision.
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dhockster
Footballguy
Again, condescension.
In the course of an hour yesterday you posted 7 times and in 3 of those posts you were either condescending, sarcastic, or abusive to other posters. Why?
It doesn't bother me but makes me curious about what else is going on in your life that you have to be so unkind on an online message board. Seriously, I'll listen.
drummer
Footballguy
Back when I used to teach (and I still do for a few students), I had a few students who just tried to be Peart. Not that they could execute all of what he did, but their idea of what a good drummer is was to try and be Peart. When it came to executing the more important musical qualities, like feel and groove, they fell apart.
Once I got some of that straightened out, I then exposed them to other rock drummers, even Ringo. Other students who had more vocabulary who wanted to get into more of the progressive stuff, I would introduce them to a lot of the drummers I posted here. The listening room had my huge collection of recordings, and I would even put Topper Headon with The Clash to help them expand some ideas when it came to playing rock music.
My goal was to help them get gigs, because they won't get gigs just by emulating Neil Peart. Some of these kids had ideas of going into college as well, so I also had to prepare them for that. The more variety of influences actually brought more of themselves into the music, and I still have young drummers ask me about Billy Cobham, who they have never heard of, and want to check him out more because all they hear on the classic radio station is Peart.
Pardon me if I dismissed your posts, but it was what you brought to the table, which was nothing. What I do isn't about you. What I do is for the people that want to educate themselves more. I don't teach much anymore because I have a job that takes a lot of my time away from me for weeks at a time, but I still give the odd lesson to young and even drummers my age. I've studied with some great teachers and drummers, none of which tried to make me play like Peart, rather more like the real important drummers like Max Roach and such. Tony Williams was one of them.
Thanks for nothing. But you're welcome for me taking time to help educate you.
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