*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (8 Viewers)

[Cliff Clavin]

What should really convince you that it was the right play is that even if LeBron does convert at 75% there, which seems impossible, it still might not have been the better play. That translates to a 37.5% chance to win if you assume the teams are even in OT. I don't have Bosh's right corner 3 numbers but I assume he's at least at 37.5% considering he shoots over 35% from all spots beyond the arc and that's his favorite spot.

Plus you have to adjust for the fact that the Pacers were at home and LeBron had 5 fouls, both of which reduce the Heat's chances in OT. And adjust for the couple extra seconds the three took off the clock, making a Pacers last possession miracle that much harder if the Heat had scored.

7/14 - Playoffs

9/33 - Regular Season

------

16/57 - 28% this season

And about 35% over the previous two seasons. Surprisingly, the right corner is his worst spot, though we aren't talking about huge samples here.

Thanks. Where did you get that breakdown? I don't see that kind of detail at basketball reference, the shot chart and heat map there make it look like he's efficient from that spot, although the heatmap might just be due to volume.

ETA- I see the problem. Your math is off. 14 + 33 = 47, making him 34% on the year.

I am not a smrt man.

http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.html?PlayerID=2547&Season=2013-14

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

Magic, Michael, Pippen, KG and Wilt.

Really just have Magic and Michael in the backcourt and mix and match the other positions as you see fit.

 

[saintsfan]

Fun game making the rounds on social media the last couple of days.

You have $15 to spend to make your starting 5:

PG

Magic Johnson - $5

Oscar Robertson - $4

Isiah Thomas - $3

John Stockton - $2

Walt Frazier - $1

SG

Michael Jordan - $5

Kobe Bryant - $4

Jerry West - $3

Clyde Drexler - $2

Dwayne Wade - $1

SF

LeBron James - $5

Larry Bird - $4

Julius Erving - $3

Kevin Durant - $2

Scottie Pippen - $1

PF

Karl Malone - $5

Charles Barkley - $4

Tim Duncan - $3

Dirk Nowitzki - $2

Kevin Garnett - $1

C

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - $5

Bill Russell - $4

Wilt Chamberlain - $3

Shaquille O'Neal - $2

Hakeem Olajuwon - $1

MagicJordan

Pippen

Duncan

Dream

Not bad, but that's a really bad perimeter shooting team.

Shouldn't somebody be able to hit a 3?? Like a real 3?? Not the almost college 3 that they went to so Jordan could make them??

I've got Stockton, Jordan, Bird, Duncan, Dream

 

[Jayrod]

Fun game making the rounds on social media the last couple of days.

You have $15 to spend to make your starting 5:

I only want to spend $14.Stockton

Jordan

LeBron

Garnett

Olajuwon

I don't want guys that will take shots from MJ and can play great defense.

I suppose Shaq could be used over Hakeem, but I love the mobility and shot blocking tandem of KG & Hakeem. I also don't like Isaiah over Stockton for this squad as he was more of a scoring PG. Would love to have Magic, but he is not worth $3 more.

I have done some further looking into it and while I still like my initial reaction, here is another run that could be a better squad:

PG - Stockton

SG - MJ

SF - Larry

PF - Duncan

C - Hakeem

I think the jump from KG to Duncan is more valuable than the dropoff from LeBron to Larry. I really wanted to find a way to get Wilt in there, but couldn't justify the drop in $2 somewhere else. I considered Frazier a few times, but his lack of assist production just felt wrong with great scorers like MJ & Larry...I need a distributor for those two and the dropoff in defense from Frazier to Stockton isn't too bad. Hakeem's defensive dominance made it an easier decision (2x DPOY, 9x All-D). He and Duncan can control the paint while Larry and MJ do the scoring. I have great balance in scoring, rebounding and defense.

 

[Jayrod]

Fun game making the rounds on social media the last couple of days.

You have $15 to spend to make your starting 5:

PG

Magic Johnson - $5

Oscar Robertson - $4

Isiah Thomas - $3

John Stockton - $2

Walt Frazier - $1

SG

Michael Jordan - $5

Kobe Bryant - $4

Jerry West - $3

Clyde Drexler - $2

Dwayne Wade - $1

SF

LeBron James - $5

Larry Bird - $4

Julius Erving - $3

Kevin Durant - $2

Scottie Pippen - $1

PF

Karl Malone - $5

Charles Barkley - $4

Tim Duncan - $3

Dirk Nowitzki - $2

Kevin Garnett - $1

C

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - $5

Bill Russell - $4

Wilt Chamberlain - $3

Shaquille O'Neal - $2

Hakeem Olajuwon - $1

MagicJordan

Pippen

Duncan

Dream

Not bad, but that's a really bad perimeter shooting team.

Shouldn't somebody be able to hit a 3?? Like a real 3?? Not the almost college 3 that they went to so Jordan could make them??

I've got Stockton, Jordan, Bird, Duncan, Dream

 

[saintsfan]

Fun game making the rounds on social media the last couple of days.

You have $15 to spend to make your starting 5:

PG

Magic Johnson - $5

Oscar Robertson - $4

Isiah Thomas - $3

John Stockton - $2

Walt Frazier - $1

SG

Michael Jordan - $5

Kobe Bryant - $4

Jerry West - $3

Clyde Drexler - $2

Dwayne Wade - $1

SF

LeBron James - $5

Larry Bird - $4

Julius Erving - $3

Kevin Durant - $2

Scottie Pippen - $1

PF

Karl Malone - $5

Charles Barkley - $4

Tim Duncan - $3

Dirk Nowitzki - $2

Kevin Garnett - $1

C

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - $5

Bill Russell - $4

Wilt Chamberlain - $3

Shaquille O'Neal - $2

Hakeem Olajuwon - $1

MagicJordan

Pippen

Duncan

Dream

Not bad, but that's a really bad perimeter shooting team.

Shouldn't somebody be able to hit a 3?? Like a real 3?? Not the almost college 3 that they went to so Jordan could make them??

I've got Stockton, Jordan, Bird, Duncan, Dream

Looks like we had the same thought, GB.

Looking further, that is not a good playmaking team, it's a GREAT playmaking team. Stockton is either the best or second best playmaker at his position ever. Bird is the best passing forward ever and Duncan is among the best passing big men ever. Jordan, Duncan, and Dream are great on defense allowing Bird to roam, which is what he does best on defense.

 

[BassNBrew]

Fun game making the rounds on social media the last couple of days.

You have $15 to spend to make your starting 5:

I only want to spend $14.Stockton

Jordan

LeBron

Garnett

Olajuwon

I don't want guys that will take shots from MJ and can play great defense.

I suppose Shaq could be used over Hakeem, but I love the mobility and shot blocking tandem of KG & Hakeem. I also don't like Isaiah over Stockton for this squad as he was more of a scoring PG. Would love to have Magic, but he is not worth $3 more.

I have done some further looking into it and while I still like my initial reaction, here is another run that could be a better squad:

PG - Stockton

SG - MJ

SF - Larry

PF - Duncan

C - Hakeem

I think the jump from KG to Duncan is more valuable than the dropoff from LeBron to Larry. I really wanted to find a way to get Wilt in there, but couldn't justify the drop in $2 somewhere else. I considered Frazier a few times, but his lack of assist production just felt wrong with great scorers like MJ & Larry...I need a distributor for those two and the dropoff in defense from Frazier to Stockton isn't too bad. Hakeem's defensive dominance made it an easier decision (2x DPOY, 9x All-D). He and Duncan can control the paint while Larry and MJ do the scoring. I have great balance in scoring, rebounding and defense.

I not going to knock Duncan, but LeBron is the second greatest player ever IMO and the greatest physical talent ever. MJ and LJ plus Biyombo and your choice of any two other bench warmers in the NBA beat any other team you can put together that doesn't include MJ or LJ.

 

[Jayrod]

Fun game making the rounds on social media the last couple of days.

You have $15 to spend to make your starting 5:

I only want to spend $14.Stockton

Jordan

LeBron

Garnett

Olajuwon

I don't want guys that will take shots from MJ and can play great defense.

I suppose Shaq could be used over Hakeem, but I love the mobility and shot blocking tandem of KG & Hakeem. I also don't like Isaiah over Stockton for this squad as he was more of a scoring PG. Would love to have Magic, but he is not worth $3 more.

I have done some further looking into it and while I still like my initial reaction, here is another run that could be a better squad:

PG - Stockton

SG - MJ

SF - Larry

PF - Duncan

C - Hakeem

I think the jump from KG to Duncan is more valuable than the dropoff from LeBron to Larry. I really wanted to find a way to get Wilt in there, but couldn't justify the drop in $2 somewhere else. I considered Frazier a few times, but his lack of assist production just felt wrong with great scorers like MJ & Larry...I need a distributor for those two and the dropoff in defense from Frazier to Stockton isn't too bad. Hakeem's defensive dominance made it an easier decision (2x DPOY, 9x All-D). He and Duncan can control the paint while Larry and MJ do the scoring. I have great balance in scoring, rebounding and defense.

I not going to knock Duncan, but LeBron is the second greatest player ever IMO and the greatest physical talent ever. MJ and LJ plus Biyombo and your choice of any two other bench warmers in the NBA beat any other team you can put together that doesn't include MJ or LJ.

LeBron is not at the level of Kareem, Wilt or Russell. He is about even with Bird and Magic on the all-time greats list right now. If he somehow doesn't win a championship this year, it will be a huge black eye on his career and bid for GOAT status.

And Wilt was a greater physical talent in comparison to his peers than LeBron is today. And in the event that you just have to score a bucket, I'd take Larry Legend over him any day.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Fun game making the rounds on social media the last couple of days.

You have $15 to spend to make your starting 5:

I only want to spend $14.Stockton

Jordan

LeBron

Garnett

Olajuwon

I don't want guys that will take shots from MJ and can play great defense.

I suppose Shaq could be used over Hakeem, but I love the mobility and shot blocking tandem of KG & Hakeem. I also don't like Isaiah over Stockton for this squad as he was more of a scoring PG. Would love to have Magic, but he is not worth $3 more.

I have done some further looking into it and while I still like my initial reaction, here is another run that could be a better squad:

PG - Stockton

SG - MJ

SF - Larry

PF - Duncan

C - Hakeem

I think the jump from KG to Duncan is more valuable than the dropoff from LeBron to Larry. I really wanted to find a way to get Wilt in there, but couldn't justify the drop in $2 somewhere else. I considered Frazier a few times, but his lack of assist production just felt wrong with great scorers like MJ & Larry...I need a distributor for those two and the dropoff in defense from Frazier to Stockton isn't too bad. Hakeem's defensive dominance made it an easier decision (2x DPOY, 9x All-D). He and Duncan can control the paint while Larry and MJ do the scoring. I have great balance in scoring, rebounding and defense.

I not going to knock Duncan, but LeBron is the second greatest player ever IMO and the greatest physical talent ever. MJ and LJ plus Biyombo and your choice of any two other bench warmers in the NBA beat any other team you can put together that doesn't include MJ or LJ.

LeBron is not at the level of Kareem, Wilt or Russell. He is about even with Bird and Magic on the all-time greats list right now. If he somehow doesn't win a championship this year, it will be a huge black eye on his career and bid for GOAT status.

And Wilt was a greater physical talent in comparison to his peers than LeBron is today. And in the event that you just have to score a bucket, I'd take Larry Legend over him any day.

 

[BassNBrew]

Fun game making the rounds on social media the last couple of days.

You have $15 to spend to make your starting 5:

I only want to spend $14.Stockton

Jordan

LeBron

Garnett

Olajuwon

I don't want guys that will take shots from MJ and can play great defense.

I suppose Shaq could be used over Hakeem, but I love the mobility and shot blocking tandem of KG & Hakeem. I also don't like Isaiah over Stockton for this squad as he was more of a scoring PG. Would love to have Magic, but he is not worth $3 more.

I have done some further looking into it and while I still like my initial reaction, here is another run that could be a better squad:

PG - Stockton

SG - MJ

SF - Larry

PF - Duncan

C - Hakeem

I think the jump from KG to Duncan is more valuable than the dropoff from LeBron to Larry. I really wanted to find a way to get Wilt in there, but couldn't justify the drop in $2 somewhere else. I considered Frazier a few times, but his lack of assist production just felt wrong with great scorers like MJ & Larry...I need a distributor for those two and the dropoff in defense from Frazier to Stockton isn't too bad. Hakeem's defensive dominance made it an easier decision (2x DPOY, 9x All-D). He and Duncan can control the paint while Larry and MJ do the scoring. I have great balance in scoring, rebounding and defense.

I not going to knock Duncan, but LeBron is the second greatest player ever IMO and the greatest physical talent ever. MJ and LJ plus Biyombo and your choice of any two other bench warmers in the NBA beat any other team you can put together that doesn't include MJ or LJ.

LeBron is not at the level of Kareem, Wilt or Russell. He is about even with Bird and Magic on the all-time greats list right now. If he somehow doesn't win a championship this year, it will be a huge black eye on his career and bid for GOAT status.

And Wilt was a greater physical talent in comparison to his peers than LeBron is today. And in the event that you just have to score a bucket, I'd take Larry Legend over him any day.

So basically you're saying Wilt/Russell were playing against D league level talent and using that to say they're better than James.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWmarJrP9sE Could find last night's block, but Wilt ain't sniffing this.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Fun game making the rounds on social media the last couple of days.

You have $15 to spend to make your starting 5:

I only want to spend $14.Stockton

Jordan

LeBron

Garnett

Olajuwon

I don't want guys that will take shots from MJ and can play great defense.

I suppose Shaq could be used over Hakeem, but I love the mobility and shot blocking tandem of KG & Hakeem. I also don't like Isaiah over Stockton for this squad as he was more of a scoring PG. Would love to have Magic, but he is not worth $3 more.

I have done some further looking into it and while I still like my initial reaction, here is another run that could be a better squad:

PG - Stockton

SG - MJ

SF - Larry

PF - Duncan

C - Hakeem

I think the jump from KG to Duncan is more valuable than the dropoff from LeBron to Larry. I really wanted to find a way to get Wilt in there, but couldn't justify the drop in $2 somewhere else. I considered Frazier a few times, but his lack of assist production just felt wrong with great scorers like MJ & Larry...I need a distributor for those two and the dropoff in defense from Frazier to Stockton isn't too bad. Hakeem's defensive dominance made it an easier decision (2x DPOY, 9x All-D). He and Duncan can control the paint while Larry and MJ do the scoring. I have great balance in scoring, rebounding and defense.

I not going to knock Duncan, but LeBron is the second greatest player ever IMO and the greatest physical talent ever. MJ and LJ plus Biyombo and your choice of any two other bench warmers in the NBA beat any other team you can put together that doesn't include MJ or LJ.

LeBron is not at the level of Kareem, Wilt or Russell. He is about even with Bird and Magic on the all-time greats list right now. If he somehow doesn't win a championship this year, it will be a huge black eye on his career and bid for GOAT status.

And Wilt was a greater physical talent in comparison to his peers than LeBron is today. And in the event that you just have to score a bucket, I'd take Larry Legend over him any day.

After further review, I should not have bolded just that one portion of the post. Pretty much the whole thing is worthy of a chuckle.

You know why Wilty was a greater physical talent compared to his peers than LeBron is today? Because in Wilt's era basketball was a game played by maybe a couple million Americans. In LeBron's era it's played by hundreds of millions of people worldwide, maybe billions. He's competing against a pool of talent that's literally hundreds of times larger than the one Wilt competed against.

That makes all of these cross-era comparisons silly to begin with, but your post kinda highlights that point.

 

[fantasycurse42]

I'd take Ed Malloy on my payroll over anyone note named Lebron James, just saying

 

[Cliff Clavin]

After further review, I should not have bolded just that one portion of the post. Pretty much the whole thing is worthy of a chuckle.

You know why Wilty was a greater physical talent compared to his peers than LeBron is today? Because in Wilt's era basketball was a game played by maybe a couple million Americans. In LeBron's era it's played by hundreds of millions of people worldwide, maybe billions. He's competing against a pool of talent that's literally hundreds of times larger than the one Wilt competed against.

That makes all of these cross-era comparisons silly to begin with, but your post kinda highlights that point.

You gotta remember that Jayrod believes he is a better shooter than LeBron.

 

[rodg12]

I'm intrigued by this team...

Magic $5

Jordan $5

Durant $2

Dirk $2

Hakeem $1

Optimal spacing on offense. Two plus-plus defenders in MJ and Dream. Magic setting everyone up. This team would be fun to watch.

 

[Jayrod]

After further review, I should not have bolded just that one portion of the post. Pretty much the whole thing is worthy of a chuckle.

You know why Wilty was a greater physical talent compared to his peers than LeBron is today? Because in Wilt's era basketball was a game played by maybe a couple million Americans. In LeBron's era it's played by hundreds of millions of people worldwide, maybe billions. He's competing against a pool of talent that's literally hundreds of times larger than the one Wilt competed against.

That makes all of these cross-era comparisons silly to begin with, but your post kinda highlights that point.

You gotta remember that Jayrod believes he is a better shooter than LeBron.

That was pre-sciatica. Now I'm a shell of my former self.

 

[Jayrod]

After further review, I should not have bolded just that one portion of the post. Pretty much the whole thing is worthy of a chuckle.
You know why Wilty was a greater physical talent compared to his peers than LeBron is today? Because in Wilt's era basketball was a game played by maybe a couple million Americans. In LeBron's era it's played by hundreds of millions of people worldwide, maybe billions. He's competing against a pool of talent that's literally hundreds of times larger than the one Wilt competed against.

That makes all of these cross-era comparisons silly to begin with, but your post kinda highlights that point.

LOL at billions or even 100's of millions. Do you think if there was another physical specimen that could match up with Wilt in the US he wouldn't have been playing basketball? Tall athletic guys aren't exactly hard to discover. They kind of stand out. Just because there weren't as many 6'1" white guys playing ball back then doesn't mean there was a decreased talent pool to choose from. The only validity to your argument is the growth of the game worldwide, and even then a very small % of the world grows up with basketball as an option today.

I'll give you that LeBron is a physical freak, but guys like Blake Griffin, DeAndre Jordan, Paul George, and Andre Iguadola compare much more favorable to LeBron than any two players did in Wilt's time. He was hands down the greatest physical talent the league had seen for decades both before and after.

Maybe there is an argument to be made, but it is hardly laughable.

 

[Major]

Indiana have the Heat right where they want them. Pacers in 7.

 

[the moops]

Fun game making the rounds on social media the last couple of days.

You have $15 to spend to make your starting 5:

I only want to spend $14.Stockton

Jordan

LeBron

Garnett

Olajuwon

I don't want guys that will take shots from MJ and can play great defense.

I suppose Shaq could be used over Hakeem, but I love the mobility and shot blocking tandem of KG & Hakeem. I also don't like Isaiah over Stockton for this squad as he was more of a scoring PG. Would love to have Magic, but he is not worth $3 more.

I have done some further looking into it and while I still like my initial reaction, here is another run that could be a better squad:

PG - Stockton

SG - MJ

SF - Larry

PF - Duncan

C - Hakeem

I think the jump from KG to Duncan is more valuable than the dropoff from LeBron to Larry. I really wanted to find a way to get Wilt in there, but couldn't justify the drop in $2 somewhere else. I considered Frazier a few times, but his lack of assist production just felt wrong with great scorers like MJ & Larry...I need a distributor for those two and the dropoff in defense from Frazier to Stockton isn't too bad. Hakeem's defensive dominance made it an easier decision (2x DPOY, 9x All-D). He and Duncan can control the paint while Larry and MJ do the scoring. I have great balance in scoring, rebounding and defense.

I not going to knock Duncan, but LeBron is the second greatest player ever IMO and the greatest physical talent ever. MJ and LJ plus Biyombo and your choice of any two other bench warmers in the NBA beat any other team you can put together that doesn't include MJ or LJ.

LeBron is not at the level of Kareem, Wilt or Russell. He is about even with Bird and Magic on the all-time greats list right now. If he somehow doesn't win a championship this year, it will be a huge black eye on his career and bid for GOAT status.

And Wilt was a greater physical talent in comparison to his peers than LeBron is today. And in the event that you just have to score a bucket, I'd take Larry Legend over him any day.

Clearly Lebron isn't at Wilt's levels because of the huge disparity in championships

 

[Jayrod]

Fun game making the rounds on social media the last couple of days.

You have $15 to spend to make your starting 5:

I only want to spend $14.Stockton

Jordan

LeBron

Garnett

Olajuwon

I don't want guys that will take shots from MJ and can play great defense.

I suppose Shaq could be used over Hakeem, but I love the mobility and shot blocking tandem of KG & Hakeem. I also don't like Isaiah over Stockton for this squad as he was more of a scoring PG. Would love to have Magic, but he is not worth $3 more.

I have done some further looking into it and while I still like my initial reaction, here is another run that could be a better squad:

PG - Stockton

SG - MJ

SF - Larry

PF - Duncan

C - Hakeem

I think the jump from KG to Duncan is more valuable than the dropoff from LeBron to Larry. I really wanted to find a way to get Wilt in there, but couldn't justify the drop in $2 somewhere else. I considered Frazier a few times, but his lack of assist production just felt wrong with great scorers like MJ & Larry...I need a distributor for those two and the dropoff in defense from Frazier to Stockton isn't too bad. Hakeem's defensive dominance made it an easier decision (2x DPOY, 9x All-D). He and Duncan can control the paint while Larry and MJ do the scoring. I have great balance in scoring, rebounding and defense.

I not going to knock Duncan, but LeBron is the second greatest player ever IMO and the greatest physical talent ever. MJ and LJ plus Biyombo and your choice of any two other bench warmers in the NBA beat any other team you can put together that doesn't include MJ or LJ.

LeBron is not at the level of Kareem, Wilt or Russell. He is about even with Bird and Magic on the all-time greats list right now. If he somehow doesn't win a championship this year, it will be a huge black eye on his career and bid for GOAT status.

And Wilt was a greater physical talent in comparison to his peers than LeBron is today. And in the event that you just have to score a bucket, I'd take Larry Legend over him any day.

Clearly Lebron isn't at Wilt's levels because of the huge disparity in championships

Reading is fundamental. I was addressing two different issues.

 

[Ghost Rider]

LeBron is not at the level of Kareem, Wilt or Russell. He is about even with Bird and Magic on the all-time greats list right now. If he somehow doesn't win a championship this year, it will be a huge black eye on his career and bid for GOAT status.

And Wilt was a greater physical talent in comparison to his peers than LeBron is today. And in the event that you just have to score a bucket, I'd take Larry Legend over him any day.

 

[TobiasFunke]

After further review, I should not have bolded just that one portion of the post. Pretty much the whole thing is worthy of a chuckle.
You know why Wilty was a greater physical talent compared to his peers than LeBron is today? Because in Wilt's era basketball was a game played by maybe a couple million Americans. In LeBron's era it's played by hundreds of millions of people worldwide, maybe billions. He's competing against a pool of talent that's literally hundreds of times larger than the one Wilt competed against.

That makes all of these cross-era comparisons silly to begin with, but your post kinda highlights that point.

LOL at billions or even 100's of millions. Do you think if there was another physical specimen that could match up with Wilt in the US he wouldn't have been playing basketball? Tall athletic guys aren't exactly hard to discover. They kind of stand out. Just because there weren't as many 6'1" white guys playing ball back then doesn't mean there was a decreased talent pool to choose from. The only validity to your argument is the growth of the game worldwide, and even then a very small % of the world grows up with basketball as an option today.

I'll give you that LeBron is a physical freak, but guys like Blake Griffin, DeAndre Jordan, Paul George, and Andre Iguadola compare much more favorable to LeBron than any two players did in Wilt's time. He was hands down the greatest physical talent the league had seen for decades both before and after.

Maybe there is an argument to be made, but it is hardly laughable.

If you don't think there's hundreds of millions of kids who give basketball a try in today's world you're out of your mind.

Other than that, I have no idea what point you're trying to make. With respect to the Wilt part- he wouldn't even be anything special as a physical specimen in today's game. Which is why cross-era comparisons are silly to begin with, even more so if you try to compare a wing and a center.

With respect to the part about LeBron getting a "black eye" if he doesn't get a ring this year, that's just silly run of the mill hater stuff, doesn't really merit a response.

 

[saintsfan]

Fun game making the rounds on social media the last couple of days.

You have $15 to spend to make your starting 5:

I only want to spend $14.Stockton

Jordan

LeBron

Garnett

Olajuwon

I don't want guys that will take shots from MJ and can play great defense.

I suppose Shaq could be used over Hakeem, but I love the mobility and shot blocking tandem of KG & Hakeem. I also don't like Isaiah over Stockton for this squad as he was more of a scoring PG. Would love to have Magic, but he is not worth $3 more.

I have done some further looking into it and while I still like my initial reaction, here is another run that could be a better squad:

PG - Stockton

SG - MJ

SF - Larry

PF - Duncan

C - Hakeem

I think the jump from KG to Duncan is more valuable than the dropoff from LeBron to Larry. I really wanted to find a way to get Wilt in there, but couldn't justify the drop in $2 somewhere else. I considered Frazier a few times, but his lack of assist production just felt wrong with great scorers like MJ & Larry...I need a distributor for those two and the dropoff in defense from Frazier to Stockton isn't too bad. Hakeem's defensive dominance made it an easier decision (2x DPOY, 9x All-D). He and Duncan can control the paint while Larry and MJ do the scoring. I have great balance in scoring, rebounding and defense.

I not going to knock Duncan, but LeBron is the second greatest player ever IMO and the greatest physical talent ever. MJ and LJ plus Biyombo and your choice of any two other bench warmers in the NBA beat any other team you can put together that doesn't include MJ or LJ.

LeBron is not at the level of Kareem, Wilt or Russell. He is about even with Bird and Magic on the all-time greats list right now. If he somehow doesn't win a championship this year, it will be a huge black eye on his career and bid for GOAT status.

And Wilt was a greater physical talent in comparison to his peers than LeBron is today. And in the event that you just have to score a bucket, I'd take Larry Legend over him any day.

This is why I kind of cringe when I see people talk about LeBron having eclipsed Larry.

With the game on the line, who's hand do you want the ball in?? Larry or LeBron?? IMO, if you say LeBron, you didn't see Bird play. IMO, with the game on the line, the only guy I'd accept as Larry's equal is Jordan. Nobody else is even close...

Remember, the guy that hit the shot that bailed the Heat out last year was Ray Allen after LeBron chocked on it. Otherwise, we are talking about a 1 peat...

 

[the moops]

This has been discussed before, but there are probably hundreds of players that I would choose before Lebron if I needed to score a bucket. Not sure what that has to do with being the greatest of all time though.

 

[Jayrod]

LeBron is not at the level of Kareem, Wilt or Russell. He is about even with Bird and Magic on the all-time greats list right now. If he somehow doesn't win a championship this year, it will be a huge black eye on his career and bid for GOAT status.

And Wilt was a greater physical talent in comparison to his peers than LeBron is today. And in the event that you just have to score a bucket, I'd take Larry Legend over him any day.

If he loses can you argue he is better than MJ? I guess "huge black eye on his career" was hyperbole, but if he loses he is mired in that group of Wilt, Larry & Magic...which is great, but not quite "second greatest player ever", which is the quote I was addressing.

 

[Ghost Rider]

LeBron is not at the level of Kareem, Wilt or Russell. He is about even with Bird and Magic on the all-time greats list right now. If he somehow doesn't win a championship this year, it will be a huge black eye on his career and bid for GOAT status.

And Wilt was a greater physical talent in comparison to his peers than LeBron is today. And in the event that you just have to score a bucket, I'd take Larry Legend over him any day.

If he loses can you argue he is better than MJ? I guess "huge black eye on his career" was hyperbole, but if he loses he is mired in that group of Wilt, Larry & Magic...which is great, but not quite "second greatest player ever", which is the quote I was addressing.

I wouldn't argue he is better than Jordan if he wins. Not yet. So it is a LOL statement to make. What if he loses in the finals this year, but then wins the next five? Losing in the finals then wouldn't be so damaging then, would it? Unless you are one of those "Jordan never lost in the finals" people, which is always a terrible argument.

 

[Jayrod]

This has been discussed before, but there are probably hundreds of players that I would choose before Lebron if I needed to score a bucket. Not sure what that has to do with being the greatest of all time though.

Since that is a big part of winning games (scoring when you need to win a close game), I think it is huge. It is why MJ is the greatest ever and why Larry is even in the same discussion with LeBron despite being smaller, slower and weaker.

 

[the moops]

You gotta remember that Jayrod believes he is a better shooter than LeBron.

We need a running list of these things.

Matuski can beat up Pacquiao

Jayrod can outshoot Lebron

 

[TobiasFunke]

This has been discussed before, but there are probably hundreds of players that I would choose before Lebron if I needed to score a bucket. Not sure what that has to do with being the greatest of all time though.

Since that is a big part of winning games (scoring when you need to win a close game), I think it is huge. It is why MJ is the greatest ever and why Larry is even in the same discussion with LeBron despite being smaller, slower and weaker.

Ah, the playoffs. When people read the latest #hotsportstake from Gregg Doyel or some other idiot and decide to bring it to the thread.

Unless they changed the rules and no longer allow the other four people on the team to score in the final minute of the game, there is no player you should choose before LeBron if your team needs to score a bucket.

 

[Ghost Rider]

This has been discussed before, but there are probably hundreds of players that I would choose before Lebron if I needed to score a bucket. Not sure what that has to do with being the greatest of all time though.

Since that is a big part of winning games (scoring when you need to win a close game), I think it is huge. It is why MJ is the greatest ever and why Larry is even in the same discussion with LeBron despite being smaller, slower and weaker.

Wow, I guess some of us did just imagine Game 7 last year. I guess James' clutch shot at the end of Game 7 to solidify a championship never happen. Crazy.

 

[Jayrod]

LeBron is not at the level of Kareem, Wilt or Russell. He is about even with Bird and Magic on the all-time greats list right now. If he somehow doesn't win a championship this year, it will be a huge black eye on his career and bid for GOAT status.

And Wilt was a greater physical talent in comparison to his peers than LeBron is today. And in the event that you just have to score a bucket, I'd take Larry Legend over him any day.

If he loses can you argue he is better than MJ? I guess "huge black eye on his career" was hyperbole, but if he loses he is mired in that group of Wilt, Larry & Magic...which is great, but not quite "second greatest player ever", which is the quote I was addressing.

I wouldn't argue he is better than Jordan if he wins. Not yet. So it is a LOL statement to make. What if he loses in the finals this year, but then wins the next five? Losing in the finals then wouldn't be so damaging then, would it? Unless you are one of those "Jordan never lost in the finals" people, which is always a terrible argument.

If LeBron loses this year and wins the next five, then certainly he can make a claim at GOAT. It won't happen, though.

Also, what would have happened if MJ didn't take 2 years off? 8 straight would have been ridiculous. Maybe he wouldn't have had the same drive for the last three, but nobody is touching his run. That is the measuring stick. You want to be considered 2nd best and clearly above the Russell, Kareem, Wilt, Magic and Bird level, you have to put together a string of championships. Right now he is .500 in championship series. If he goes below .500 have having hand picked his teammates, it is a blow to his status that will take at least 2 more championships to overcome.

 

[saintsfan]

This has been discussed before, but there are probably hundreds of players that I would choose before Lebron if I needed to score a bucket. Not sure what that has to do with being the greatest of all time though.

Since that is a big part of winning games (scoring when you need to win a close game), I think it is huge. It is why MJ is the greatest ever and why Larry is even in the same discussion with LeBron despite being smaller, slower and weaker.

Ah, the playoffs. When people read the latest #hotsportstake from Gregg Doyel or some other idiot and decide to bring it to the thread.

Unless they changed the rules and no longer allow the other four people on the team to score in the final minute of the game, there is no player you should choose before LeBron if your team needs to score a bucket.

Yeah, cause Larry and Michael were never double teamed and could never find the open man.

Did you read this before you hit send??

 

[Ghost Rider]

Bird never won two in a row. LeBron is currently one championship behind him and one MVP award ahead of him. And I am a huge Bird fan.

Magic never won more than two in a row, so LeBron has already matched him in that regard. And Magic only came out of college to play with Kareem, so do we knock him for hand picking his teammates as well??

His championship series record is irrelevant, unless you want to act like it would have been better for him to not to have dragged that average Cavs team to the finals in 2007. Oh, but he lost in the finals, so that counts against him, right?

 

[Cliff Clavin]

LeBron is not at the level of Kareem, Wilt or Russell. He is about even with Bird and Magic on the all-time greats list right now. If he somehow doesn't win a championship this year, it will be a huge black eye on his career and bid for GOAT status.And Wilt was a greater physical talent in comparison to his peers than LeBron is today. And in the event that you just have to score a bucket, I'd take Larry Legend over him any day.

If he loses can you argue he is better than MJ? I guess "huge black eye on his career" was hyperbole, but if he loses he is mired in that group of Wilt, Larry & Magic...which is great, but not quite "second greatest player ever", which is the quote I was addressing.

I wouldn't argue he is better than Jordan if he wins. Not yet. So it is a LOL statement to make. What if he loses in the finals this year, but then wins the next five? Losing in the finals then wouldn't be so damaging then, would it? Unless you are one of those "Jordan never lost in the finals" people, which is always a terrible argument.

If LeBron loses this year and wins the next five, then certainly he can make a claim at GOAT. It won't happen, though.Also, what would have happened if MJ didn't take 2 years off? 8 straight would have been ridiculous. Maybe he wouldn't have had the same drive for the last three, but nobody is touching his run. That is the measuring stick. You want to be considered 2nd best and clearly above the Russell, Kareem, Wilt, Magic and Bird level, you have to put together a string of championships. Right now he is .500 in championship series. If he goes below .500 have having hand picked his teammates, it is a blow to his status that will take at least 2 more championships to overcome.

Wait, you're penalizing him for carrying a pathetic Cavs team to the finals and losing? The hate is strong with you.

 

[saintsfan]

This has been discussed before, but there are probably hundreds of players that I would choose before Lebron if I needed to score a bucket. Not sure what that has to do with being the greatest of all time though.

Since that is a big part of winning games (scoring when you need to win a close game), I think it is huge. It is why MJ is the greatest ever and why Larry is even in the same discussion with LeBron despite being smaller, slower and weaker.

Ah, the playoffs. When people read the latest #hotsportstake from Gregg Doyel or some other idiot and decide to bring it to the thread.

Unless they changed the rules and no longer allow the other four people on the team to score in the final minute of the game, there is no player you should choose before LeBron if your team needs to score a bucket.

Yeah, cause Larry and Michael were never double teamed and could never find the open man.

Did you read this before you hit send??

The point is. Game is on the line and YOU have to say, get out of my way and give me the ball. Bird and Jordan did it. Repeatedly. Over double teams and everything else. There is video of Bird hitting a game winning fadeaway in Pippen's face with Jordan coming over to double. In the same situation, you think LeBron hits that shot??

I don't....

 

[Ghost Rider]

Yeah, if anything, 2007 only adds to James' legend, so that Cavs team is probably the worst team ever to play in the finals. And yet LeBron got them there.

 

[Ghost Rider]

This has been discussed before, but there are probably hundreds of players that I would choose before Lebron if I needed to score a bucket. Not sure what that has to do with being the greatest of all time though.

Since that is a big part of winning games (scoring when you need to win a close game), I think it is huge. It is why MJ is the greatest ever and why Larry is even in the same discussion with LeBron despite being smaller, slower and weaker.

Ah, the playoffs. When people read the latest #hotsportstake from Gregg Doyel or some other idiot and decide to bring it to the thread.

Unless they changed the rules and no longer allow the other four people on the team to score in the final minute of the game, there is no player you should choose before LeBron if your team needs to score a bucket.

Yeah, cause Larry and Michael were never double teamed and could never find the open man.

Did you read this before you hit send??

The point is. Game is on the line and YOU have to say, get out of my way and give me the ball. Bird and Jordan did it. Repeatedly. Over double teams and everything else. There is video of Bird hitting a game winning fadeaway in Pippen's face with Jordan coming over to double. In the same situation, you think LeBron hits that shot??

I don't....

I know Robert Horry and Reggie Miller would, and yet neither is ever in the conversation for best player ever. Funny, isn't it?

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

With respect to the Wilt part- he wouldn't even be anything special as a physical specimen in today's game.

Wrong. Not even in the same stratosphere as right.

 

[saintsfan]

Bird never won two in a row. LeBron is currently one championship behind him and one MVP award ahead of him. And I am a huge Bird fan.

Magic never won more than two in a row, so LeBron has already matched him in that regard. And Magic only came out of college to play with Kareem, so do we knock him for hand picking his teammates as well??

His championship series record is irrelevant, unless you want to act like it would have been better for him to not to have dragged that average Cavs team to the finals in 2007. Oh, but he lost in the finals, so that counts against him, right?

Bird would have won 4 in a row if not for that pesky Kareem and Magic team in LA. Magic would have probably had two repeats if not for Bird.

IMO, the competition for titles back then was far more difficult and I don't think it's close...

 

[saintsfan]

This has been discussed before, but there are probably hundreds of players that I would choose before Lebron if I needed to score a bucket. Not sure what that has to do with being the greatest of all time though.

Since that is a big part of winning games (scoring when you need to win a close game), I think it is huge. It is why MJ is the greatest ever and why Larry is even in the same discussion with LeBron despite being smaller, slower and weaker.

Ah, the playoffs. When people read the latest #hotsportstake from Gregg Doyel or some other idiot and decide to bring it to the thread.

Unless they changed the rules and no longer allow the other four people on the team to score in the final minute of the game, there is no player you should choose before LeBron if your team needs to score a bucket.

Yeah, cause Larry and Michael were never double teamed and could never find the open man.

Did you read this before you hit send??

The point is. Game is on the line and YOU have to say, get out of my way and give me the ball. Bird and Jordan did it. Repeatedly. Over double teams and everything else. There is video of Bird hitting a game winning fadeaway in Pippen's face with Jordan coming over to double. In the same situation, you think LeBron hits that shot??

I don't....

I know Robert Horry and Reggie Miller would, and yet neither is ever in the conversation for best player ever. Funny, isn't it?

Come on. Neither of those guys have the all around game to compare with anybody we are talking about here. It's a combination of elite skill and clutch. Horry was a role player. Miller was a great player, but not elite...

 

[Ghost Rider]

Bird never won two in a row. LeBron is currently one championship behind him and one MVP award ahead of him. And I am a huge Bird fan.

Magic never won more than two in a row, so LeBron has already matched him in that regard. And Magic only came out of college to play with Kareem, so do we knock him for hand picking his teammates as well??

His championship series record is irrelevant, unless you want to act like it would have been better for him to not to have dragged that average Cavs team to the finals in 2007. Oh, but he lost in the finals, so that counts against him, right?

Bird would have won 4 in a row if not for that pesky Kareem and Magic team in LA. Magic would have probably had two repeats if not for Bird.

Only once was a Laker repeat in the 80s denied by Bird's Celtics.

 

[TobiasFunke]

This has been discussed before, but there are probably hundreds of players that I would choose before Lebron if I needed to score a bucket. Not sure what that has to do with being the greatest of all time though.

Since that is a big part of winning games (scoring when you need to win a close game), I think it is huge. It is why MJ is the greatest ever and why Larry is even in the same discussion with LeBron despite being smaller, slower and weaker.

Ah, the playoffs. When people read the latest #hotsportstake from Gregg Doyel or some other idiot and decide to bring it to the thread.

Unless they changed the rules and no longer allow the other four people on the team to score in the final minute of the game, there is no player you should choose before LeBron if your team needs to score a bucket.

Yeah, cause Larry and Michael were never double teamed and could never find the open man.

Did you read this before you hit send??

The point is. Game is on the line and YOU have to say, get out of my way and give me the ball. Bird and Jordan did it. Repeatedly. Over double teams and everything else. There is video of Bird hitting a game winning fadeaway in Pippen's face with Jordan coming over to double. In the same situation, you think LeBron hits that shot??

I don't....

Hi!

 

[saintsfan]

With respect to the Wilt part- he wouldn't even be anything special as a physical specimen in today's game.

Wrong. Not even in the same stratosphere as right.

Absolutely. Wilt was a freak. He was like Shaq. Bigger than everybody else, but with more skill. He would be the best center in today's game by even a bigger margin than he was in the 60s. Back then, teams had centers. Now we have a bunch of power forwards playing center.

 

[Ghost Rider]

This has been discussed before, but there are probably hundreds of players that I would choose before Lebron if I needed to score a bucket. Not sure what that has to do with being the greatest of all time though.

Since that is a big part of winning games (scoring when you need to win a close game), I think it is huge. It is why MJ is the greatest ever and why Larry is even in the same discussion with LeBron despite being smaller, slower and weaker.

Ah, the playoffs. When people read the latest #hotsportstake from Gregg Doyel or some other idiot and decide to bring it to the thread.

Unless they changed the rules and no longer allow the other four people on the team to score in the final minute of the game, there is no player you should choose before LeBron if your team needs to score a bucket.

Yeah, cause Larry and Michael were never double teamed and could never find the open man.

Did you read this before you hit send??

The point is. Game is on the line and YOU have to say, get out of my way and give me the ball. Bird and Jordan did it. Repeatedly. Over double teams and everything else. There is video of Bird hitting a game winning fadeaway in Pippen's face with Jordan coming over to double. In the same situation, you think LeBron hits that shot??

I don't....

I know Robert Horry and Reggie Miller would, and yet neither is ever in the conversation for best player ever. Funny, isn't it?

Come on. Neither of those guys have the all around game to compare with anybody we are talking about here. It's a combination of elite skill and clutch. Horry was a role player. Miller was a great player, but not elite...

Did you watch Game 7 of the finals last year? In case you didn't...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=YRIMQi7X7mI#t=60

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Bird never won two in a row. LeBron is currently one championship behind him and one MVP award ahead of him. And I am a huge Bird fan.

Magic never won more than two in a row, so LeBron has already matched him in that regard. And Magic only came out of college to play with Kareem, so do we knock him for hand picking his teammates as well??

His championship series record is irrelevant, unless you want to act like it would have been better for him to not to have dragged that average Cavs team to the finals in 2007. Oh, but he lost in the finals, so that counts against him, right?

Bird would have won 4 in a row if not for that pesky Kareem and Magic team in LA. Magic would have probably had two repeats if not for Bird. IMO, the competition for titles back then was far more difficult and I don't think it's close...

LeBron would have won another two titles if it wasn't for the best power forward ever (Duncan) and another top 5 PF ever (Dirk).

See how easy this game is to play?

 

[saintsfan]

Bird never won two in a row. LeBron is currently one championship behind him and one MVP award ahead of him. And I am a huge Bird fan.

Magic never won more than two in a row, so LeBron has already matched him in that regard. And Magic only came out of college to play with Kareem, so do we knock him for hand picking his teammates as well??

His championship series record is irrelevant, unless you want to act like it would have been better for him to not to have dragged that average Cavs team to the finals in 2007. Oh, but he lost in the finals, so that counts against him, right?

Bird would have won 4 in a row if not for that pesky Kareem and Magic team in LA. Magic would have probably had two repeats if not for Bird.

Only once was a Laker repeat in the 80s denied by Bird's Celtics.

Right. They would have had two repeats. '84 and '85 and '87 and '88.

 

[TobiasFunke]

With respect to the Wilt part- he wouldn't even be anything special as a physical specimen in today's game.

Wrong. Not even in the same stratosphere as right.

I don't really care to get into this- point is that a 7'1" guy with obscene athletic talent stands out a lot more in the 1960s than in the 2010s.

Maybe if he was magically transported to this era with the advances in training and whatnot he'd still be head and shoulders above his peers figuratively if not literally, but that's a silly thing to try to imagine, so I don't really bother.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Bird never won two in a row. LeBron is currently one championship behind him and one MVP award ahead of him. And I am a huge Bird fan.

Magic never won more than two in a row, so LeBron has already matched him in that regard. And Magic only came out of college to play with Kareem, so do we knock him for hand picking his teammates as well??

His championship series record is irrelevant, unless you want to act like it would have been better for him to not to have dragged that average Cavs team to the finals in 2007. Oh, but he lost in the finals, so that counts against him, right?

Bird would have won 4 in a row if not for that pesky Kareem and Magic team in LA. Magic would have probably had two repeats if not for Bird.

Only once was a Laker repeat in the 80s denied by Bird's Celtics.

Right. They would have had two repeats. '84 and '85 and '87 and '88.

Okay, I misread that as "two more repeats." Besides, does it matter? The Spurs are considered a dynasty and an all-time great team, yet not only have they not won two in a row yet, they still haven't ever made it to two finals in a row. And yet that hasn't hurt Duncan's rep as the best power forward ever or a top 10 all-time player.

 

[saintsfan]

This has been discussed before, but there are probably hundreds of players that I would choose before Lebron if I needed to score a bucket. Not sure what that has to do with being the greatest of all time though.

Since that is a big part of winning games (scoring when you need to win a close game), I think it is huge. It is why MJ is the greatest ever and why Larry is even in the same discussion with LeBron despite being smaller, slower and weaker.

Ah, the playoffs. When people read the latest #hotsportstake from Gregg Doyel or some other idiot and decide to bring it to the thread.

Unless they changed the rules and no longer allow the other four people on the team to score in the final minute of the game, there is no player you should choose before LeBron if your team needs to score a bucket.

Yeah, cause Larry and Michael were never double teamed and could never find the open man.

Did you read this before you hit send??

The point is. Game is on the line and YOU have to say, get out of my way and give me the ball. Bird and Jordan did it. Repeatedly. Over double teams and everything else. There is video of Bird hitting a game winning fadeaway in Pippen's face with Jordan coming over to double. In the same situation, you think LeBron hits that shot??

I don't....

Hi!

I remember that game. Watched it. Great shot. He's still not at Jordan or Bird's level with the last shot. If you think he is, you are fooling yourself. Those guys could almost do it on command.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Okay, but this idea that being "clutch" with the last shot of a game makes all the difference is such an old, tired argument. As much as I loved watching Bird play, could he regularly dominate a game in all facets the way James did Game 4 the other night? With defense, blocking shots, scoring and assisting?

Look at how the Heat completely fell apart when he was on the bench last night in the 3rd Q. That was a glaring example of how important he is to his team in all areas.

 

[TobiasFunke]

This has been discussed before, but there are probably hundreds of players that I would choose before Lebron if I needed to score a bucket. Not sure what that has to do with being the greatest of all time though.

Since that is a big part of winning games (scoring when you need to win a close game), I think it is huge. It is why MJ is the greatest ever and why Larry is even in the same discussion with LeBron despite being smaller, slower and weaker.

Ah, the playoffs. When people read the latest #hotsportstake from Gregg Doyel or some other idiot and decide to bring it to the thread.

Unless they changed the rules and no longer allow the other four people on the team to score in the final minute of the game, there is no player you should choose before LeBron if your team needs to score a bucket.

Yeah, cause Larry and Michael were never double teamed and could never find the open man.

Did you read this before you hit send??

The point is. Game is on the line and YOU have to say, get out of my way and give me the ball. Bird and Jordan did it. Repeatedly. Over double teams and everything else. There is video of Bird hitting a game winning fadeaway in Pippen's face with Jordan coming over to double. In the same situation, you think LeBron hits that shot??

I don't....

Hi!

I remember that game. Watched it. Great shot. He's still not at Jordan or Bird's level with the last shot. If you think he is, you are fooling yourself. Those guys could almost do it on command.

You are fooling yourself if you think they could do it on command. They missed all the time.

LeBron has plenty of buzzer-beaters and clutch shots on his resume. But he's also a different player than Jordan and Bird. I don't like this historical comparisons, but if you insist on them he's probably more Magic than Bird. Would you criticize Magic for passing in a clutch possession if he found a much better shot for a teammate, which we've already established is exactly what LeBron did last night?